We have heard about the Al Khalid II program, but there is still little information available. Information available on Al Khalid-I suggests that it will have an improved transmission system, as well as better electronics in terms of FCS, etc. As for Al Khalid-II, these are the possible systems we will see:

1. 1500hp diesel engine: either German MTU, Ukrainian 6TD-3 or South Korean DIC.

2. New armor technology in the form of ERAs as well as possible arrow-shaped design - seen in the ZTZ-99 and improved MBT-2000.

3. 120mm gun/cannon with autoloader: either German L44 or L55, or possible local solution. Not a probability, but I believe there has been focus on enhanced crew safety - especially in terms of counter-insurgency operations.

4. New self-defence/protection systems, possibly even laser-based systems.

5. Focus on C4I and network-centric warfare; new-generation battle management system, etc.

IMO such a new tank would stand as the PA's mainstay MBT in the long-term, and could be customized with equipment for a diverse range of roles and environmental conditions - including NBC & COIN. It would be ideal to consider the Al Khalid-II as a 4th generation tank comparable to the K2 Black Panther and Turkish MITUP MBTs also under development - but at a lower cost. It's possible that PA may import 200~300 foreign tanks - such as the Turkish MITUP - to help import some of the necessary technology.

isnt the Pakistan army actually working on the AK-II design?

It is, but there's not much information on the tank other than some rumours, among them saying that it will be superior to the Chinese ZTZ-99.

someone within can draw us the pic of the future ! May be someone from army !

I think the AK2 will borrow to a great extent from the Turkish MBT project and the ZTZ-99, with the engine most probably being Ukranian. Also im not sure if the PA will go for a 120mm gun, as the current AK has an export version with a 120mm gun, but the PA seems satisfied with the 125mm.

A shift to 120mm would probably be propelled by the need increasing crew safety and crew retention...which would imply that greater investment will be put into the individual soldier in the future.

I hope a new generation of shells are also developed ... AL-Khalid II should be capable of firing a nuke dipped shell.

Pakistan should experiemt along with china on depleted uranium and steel based armour for the hull (as in the abrams)

it can be thin but stronger then want is currently used

Thin, strong yet very high cost !

Guys .... please educate me ..... why is a 120mm better than a 125mm fpr the AK ...... which is what I seem to gather from the posts above.

125mm is capable of firing ATGM to engage enemy tanks at long ranges.

120 MM use a longer shell case(with more power) as western tanks usually do not have auto loading features. It is also better because the DU Armor piercing rod/sabot is longer compared to eastern bloc DU rounds. There are many other reasons but it will take a while explaining both of them.

120 mm doenst have more power than the 125 mm, thats the same concept as saying a 120 mm is stronger than a 155 mm artillery round. The bigger the mm the stronger the round (thats why countries are looking to adopt the 155mm onto the next generation of tanks).

To be honest there are advocate of both sizes. Its a long topic which i guess u have to look up on your own. but more i looked into 120 vs 125, more i realized that PA have gone 125mm cause they wanted to have an option in 125 that they didnt have in 120.

125 vs 120 fight is same as smooth vs rifled barrel. Again its your choice if you want chocolate or vanilla.



We should never use DU round. In fact if we can, we should make an agreement with india for never using DU rounds in a war.

By power i meant the power provided to the shell by its charge not the momentum itself. 120 mm uses a single shell concept while 125 mm shell has two parts due to auto loader feature. One is charge and the other is the shell. 125 mm compensates it by a longer barrel of 6000 mm while 120 mm are usually of 5300 mm length.

The KE sabot round is also longer( for 120 mm shells)

120 mm still have a higher velocity and i think only russia is thinking of moving to 155 mm gun. We will talk about it when they field it in service in mass numbers.

Higher caliber means more recoil, more shell weight.




Israel is offering LAHAT missiles which can be fired from 120 mm guns.

The question was asked w.r.t to AK,which is Pakistani not Israeli.The answer was quoted from an officer in armour corps.

According to Pakdef member:

H Khan
Senior Member

Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,687
Re: Pak Army related discussions: May - July 2009
KSA has in principle agreed to buy 150 Al-Khalid tanks worth $600 million. All trails are completed and some modification have already made to Al-Khalid.

1- Trials at 55 C were successful with very fine dust not making any impediment on the engine and performance of the tank.

2- Turret power control now is all electrically controlled backed by manual control (KSA)

3- A new European Renk LSG 3000 transmission has been incorporated (KSA)

4- There is some type of ‘special’ armor has been installed. During trails this ‘special’ armor (on the hull and turret) tested through live firing which defeated all types of 120 & 125 mm tank projectiles. (PA & KSA)

5- Modifications have been completed which resulted in increasing the 125 mm rounds from 39 to 49

6- Ammo storage for 12.7 & 7.62 mm has increased from 1,000 to 1,500 and 4,000 to 7,100 rounds respectively, thus, making Al-Khalid the most heavily weaponized tank in the world.

7- The power pack (engine, transmission & cooling system) can be removed in 30 minutes and reinstalled in 35 minutes.

8- KSA Al-Khalid will be equipped with A/C, APU, DDP (PA also), IBMS (PA also), and active threat-protection system

But the sad part is this: KSA is not signing the contract because of …..
__________________
H Khan

Sorry my bad.

my suggestion

- On-Star and Sirius Satellite Radio
- Heated seats
- MP3 player
- Neon Headlights
- Memory Seats
- Best if they can convert it to Hybrid, must be a gas guzzler

They are opting to introduce the German tech in the new version !

It is not a night club car where you go to. It is a tank you moron.

Mr. 10%?

may another tank in their mind

Pakistan Pushes Armor Upgrades
Emphasizes Self-Protection, Situational Awareness
By Usman Ansari
Published: 20 April 2009
Print Print | Print Email

ISLAMABAD - Despite instability on its Afghan border and the growing threat of terrorism, Pakistan remains wedded to countering the existential threat from India. Therefore, improving conventional armor and mechanized warfare is still its primary focus as it strives for heavier tanks, broader situational awareness and greater self-protection.

The Pakistani main battle tank (MBT) fleet consists mainly of Chinese Type-59IIs upgraded to Al-Zarrar standard. This includes increased chemical/kinetic armor protection, thermal imaging sights, a new fire control system, a 125mm gun and an integrated battle management system (IBMS). The thermal imaging sights and the IBMS, which allow tanks within a formation to exchange target information, have increased detection and situational awareness capabilities, a cornerstone of the modernization efforts.

This is still viewed as a stopgap, however, with a new MBT considered the only viable long-term solution. The military also wants to move away from what are essentially first-generation Cold War MBTs to heavier tanks.

The indigenous Al-Khalid MBT program, which began entering service earlier in the decade, has experienced incremental upgrades, allowing it to fulfill this requirement for a heavier, more sophisticated vehicle.

According to defense analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium, "The initial order was for 300 Al-Khalid MBTs. While these tanks were being built and delivered at a rate of 50 per year, improvements were already being worked on for the next version, the Al-Khalid I."

This, according to Shabbir, has been undertaken by the Advanced Armoured Research, Development and Integration Complex, which was set up by the manufacturers of the Al-Khalid, Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT). It is a dedicated body tasked with formulating upgrades for MBTs and other armored fighting vehicles. Shabbir said the Al-Khalid I is undergoing testing at HIT.

Shabbir claims the modifications made to the Al-Khalid I are mainly to electronic features, such as the fire control systems, the IBMS and sensors. "There are also improvements to physical features, such as side skirts, better track pads," he said.

Though electronic and other upgrades, such as increasing the rate of fire to nine rounds a minute, are not readily apparent, one visible modification is what HIT officials describe as the Active Threat Protection System. This is the Ukrainian "Varta'' electro-optical jammer, which bears a strong resemblance to the Russian/Ukrainian Shotra-1.

According to HIT, this system decoys anti-tank guided missiles and counters laser designators and range finders by causing false readings to disrupt tracking.

Another improvement is inclusion of a third-generation thermal imager from the French company Sagem. Night vision has been a traditional weakness of MBT fleets in South Asia, and both India and Pakistan are moving to rectify this shortcoming.

The Al-Khalid is also now fully air conditioned to resist summer temperatures in the southern deserts that can soar past 50 degrees Celsius (122 degrees Fahrenheit).



In the coming years, Pakistan's efforts to improve its armored quality and effectiveness through superior situational awareness are likely to become clearer. But at present, the public face of these efforts is improvements made to the Al-Khalid family of MBTs.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4046009

Many new interesting and good features ! why they lookin germans for !

Leopard II Mod

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/3943/111urn.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/2692/333b.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/935/444plo.jpg
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/5931/555a.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1525/666scn.jpg

Very impressive and sleek design ! thanks for pics man !

Zee germans are tank and submarine masters!!!!

I must say my guesses were close

I totally agree, very close, good work... keep it up.

Their pure military geniuses that is. If the germans werent restricted Id bet theyd be making planes rivalling the F-22. Same goes for the japapnese

http://www.rp-one.net/lampyridae/lampy.html

very true, U know the B2 Spirit bomber was designed from a German long range bomber prototype which was on the Nazis drawing boards when allies defeated Hitler in 1945, USA only after 50 years made B2 bomber

German and Japs are very intelligent people on a totaly different level, even today German Leopard 2A6 tank is best in the world

Jack Northrop was a genius who had been working on flying wings independently while Horton brothers pursued their flying wing dreams in Germany.

http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%...p%20bombers.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_Ho_229

Guys they were really good ! and they are now ! But there was some good in its demise ! God know what that maniac would have done to world with his technologies !
A number of projects are taken from German drawing boards ! They developed the wire guided air to air rocket. The missile and cruise missile were adopted from them. The fusion was German invention and a lot heck of new techs ! their mighty artillery and other sh*ts they would have conquered the world but Allah knew whats better.

FYI a Turkish firm is reportedly developing its own 1500hp diesel engine for use on armored vehicles such as main battle tanks. I think it could be quite interesting to see how deep Turkish-Pakistani cooperation will go in terms of Al Khalid II.

Brazilian EE-T1 Osório MBT
120 mm GIAT G1 smoothbore gun
Speed 70 km/h

Developed to meet requirements of Saudis and later Brazilian army. Saudis ended up buying M1A1 Abrams after
Gulf war.

Prototypes

http://www.forte.jor.br/wp-content/uploads...rlandobrito.jpg
http://www.forte.jor.br/wp-content/uploads..._escritorio.jpg
http://www.forte.jor.br/wp-content/uploads...a_em_provas.jpg
http://www.forte.jor.br/wp-content/uploads...foto-engesa.jpg
http://www.forte.jor.br/wp-content/uploads...sa_granadas.jpg

http://www.forte.jor.br/wp-content/uploads.../04/lad-026.jpg
http://www.forte.jor.br/wp-content/uploads.../04/lad-027.jpg

Gulf war ended the EE-T1's life after Saudis chose M1 Abrams over it and it never went into production while Engesa went bankrupt.

for a Tank engine we would be looking at a reliable producer of engine technology. does turkey even make its own cars?

if we are importing, we are better off going with tried and tested technology rather than something new, which is not liekly to be robust.

one thing I thought of in terms of better protection against ATGM capability is in the design of the tanks. Most tanks have flat surfaces on the sides and various places, it maybe worth while making such surfaces concave (lightly curved outward). when a ATGM or RPG is fired at the concave surface its nose likely to rotate somewhat before detonation. The idea being an RPG nose facing the tank will give the armour the full blast, but if the RPG was fired from an angle at the tank (most likely), the nose of the RPG on detonation will likely be pointing elsewhere, therefore saving the armour from getting the full blast of the munition. This could aid survivability of the armour.

how old i listen Alkhalid 2 but not appear and also there is never prof of it come any picture ? nooooooo

I think that's irrelevant, Pakistan doesn't produce its own cars either, but I'm pretty sure Turkey has a far more robust automobile industry. We need to recognize that Turkey is a NATO power, and will want NATO-standard equipment for all their systems. The Turks themselves will acquire the technology from tested sources such as the Germans, South Koreans, etc, but it would do Pakistan a ton of benefit to make use of the deep Turkish technological and technical knowledge pool.

my point was, if they can't even produce reliable car engines, their tank engine are not likely to be very good either.

why should we import up second rate tank engines just to build a Turkish industry?

There maybe an argument to get second rate engines when we are building our own engine industry. But forget doing foreigners a favour, Turkey would never do it for us. Pakistan should look out for itself, because no one is going to do it for us. The history of 1965, 1971 and since should teach us these lessons but too many of us seem to forget, we have no one but ourselves to depend on.

That's not a good assumption IMHO as it discounts the fact that as a NATO power the Turkey Army will set a high certification rating for local goods to match. If Pakistan is looking for 1500hp diesel engines of NATO-standard, at a potentially lower cost (than German or French counterparts) and with a possibility of locally producing them, then the Turks are the only Western answer Pakistan has. Otherwise, it can continue with Ukraine/China - who do not necessarily follow the same tight protocols as their Turkish counterparts.

One example as to why some Pakistani thinkers would lean towards Turkey and away from China is that the former has begun aspiring for greater political (and by consequence economic and military) weight in the global arena. In other words, it's new on the major powers' block and will be more flexible and accmodating to Pakistani interests than would China in the near future. The second issue to recognize is that both countries share some social and cultural similarities, and are also bonded by a shared religious identity (even if it doesn't take precedence, it still has weight). If there was a chance to correct the mistakes of the past with regards to China, the Arab Gulf, Iran, etc, then key relations with Turkey would be that chance.

The Turks are also looking to extend their weight in Central Asia while Pakistan is clearly looking to access to E.U. markets. Another fact is that Turkey and Pakistan are essentially middle powers, which puts them in a unique position where they can extend a hand to other middle powers - such as South Africa, South Korea, etc, - and device alternative organizations and blocs.

MBT-2000 in Peru

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MrMLRVhcnU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nWccrE7RgM

Most probable makeover for AK.

ZTZ99A2, the latest MBT, has recently been certified for production. Some of its features were described in an interview with the chief designer of ZTZ type 99. It's worth mentioning the following points:
-- laser targeting and automatic suppression system: the new system could detect very weak laser beams from the enemy tank and react by totally suppressing the optical targeting system of the enemy. ="Allow only one way targeting"
-- automatic active protection: new sensors allowing automatic tracking of incoming threats (missiles and projectiles) and shooting out explosives to render the threats in distance. ="Not being passively hit".
-- as an alternative 140mm gun can be installed and newly developed uranium depleted munition is available. ="Punch any known tank in the world"
-- new 1500 hp engine, new transmission, new fire control and communication systems.

i asked this question to my source and he said that more engine power and upgrade for main gun will be major upgrades for AK-II tank.looks like we will get engines from Ukraine.