Pakistan has been a major target for terrorisim & Saudi funding & support in one form or another has always been a major issue. Although the Saudi 'government' doesn't officially support it, it remains indifferent to acts of terrorisim commited against Pakistan. In addition, the Saudi role in using Pakistan as the 'middle-player' when the Taliban were in charge point to more sinister objectives on the part of the Saudis.

I think Pakistan is willing sell to just about any country that is willing to buy (except countries like india or serbia). It helps the economy and industry in Pakistan, and the sales are meant for saudi people. Not for some fringe groups. As far as support for terrorists coming from saudis, the same type of arguments can be made against several other countries, including iran.

whats that got to do with anything?

Business is business.

They have helped Pakistan before, and we've taken some hits for them too. It's pretty even, we sell them military equipment, we get money, lot's of it!

Yeah but the Saudis are people who cause as much damage. I mean, they have done nothing to stop terrorisim in Pakistan or quench the role that they are guilty of, why should they be sold arms?

Coz if we won't then, someone else will. Simple?

btw one can smell the arab hatred in you from a mile away.

He is an arab, its not about arab-hatred. But hatred against traitors of Islam. A lot of muslims cant stand the KSA policys and hate it therefore. But fact reamains they need us as we need them.

The question isn't whether we should sell weapons to them or not. Its whether or not they want to buy our weapons. The Saudis have been our allies for years and we would be delighted if we could sell them weapons. But truthfully when you can afford F-15s and Abrams tanks, i highly doubt this would happen.

Regarding this topic, I sense another Arab bashing attempt. Guys give up the hate. JEEEEZ!!!

they could buy if it came with the operators, a 100 tank armor force of the pakistani army, and 2-4 air force squadrans, to operate Al-Khalid Tanks and JF-17 Respectively

the 9,900 troops in un duties are good examples of what the pakistani amry can do

but you are right we are willling to sell, they have to be will to buy for anything to happen, but they are shifting, they are retiring barely used F-15's and E-3's

they are moving away from american stuff, and this talk of a mulsim Un security council seat and muslim power between the saudi's and Mushraff, could be hinting at a pakistani force in Saudi Arabia and more joint military to military developments

if they get overly enthusiatic (which i doubt from both sides) they coud ask (i highly doubt this) for a pakistani basing of missiles, possibly nuclear, but this seems like escliation in a region that does not need any further escalation

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realistically pakistan can provide (fitting in to what i guess is saudi's budget limits)

100 Al-Khalids, Apc's for around 10-20,000 troops, and all command equipement

and by 2015 around 60 JF-17's, to forfill 4 frontline fighter squadrans at two forward operating bases

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pakistan should not offer them a light force, but a truely sharp force, made up of a small network centric weapons heavy force

I'm an Arab, from Morocco as it were & I lived in Saudi for five long & hot years & even attended their schools. Basically they less human than they are savage.

TG,

You must remember something about KSA and Pakistan. For the 10+ years of Pakistan's trouble (1990s), KSA provided Pakistan with energy at virtually no cost. Many people speculate that they are the ones who provided funding for the F-16s (in the 80s) and they provided funds for Paks nuke program. They invest more in Pakistan and almost any othe nation in the world (right up there with PRC). They may have had a hand in creating the Taliban, but the so did Pakistan...and Talibans marching orders came from Islamabad, not Riyad. Pakistan was the main protector of the Taliban, and that is why immense pressure was on Pakistna after 9-11, not as much on KSA. No doubt that the KSA has problems (major ones at that), but Pakistan will under no circumstanes abandon KSA, just as KSA has never abandoned Pakistan. If terrorists are striking Pakistan...it is all too easy to blame KSA, and not the Jahilat created by Pakistan due to lack of emphasis on education and completely ignoring parts of the country like NWFP and Balochistan (for nearly 50 years). You look at the development of Punjab and to a large extent in Sind, and tell my, is there anywhere near this type of development in NWFP and Balochistan. Is there anywhere near the number of schools, universities, hospital, roads, sanitation, etc. No there isnt. These people have been left in jahilat for over 50 years, so when it came back to bite Paksitan, dont blame the Saudis. It was Pakistans inaction which caused this, and I am happy to see it is being addressed (albeit very slowly).

Pakistan will make any sale (cept Nukes and ballistic missiles) to KSA. Preferably, tanks and subs. They dont need Pakistani aircraft (except the Mushak basic trainer).

i also have lived in saudi arabia TG. in fact, i was born and raised there. so i lived there considerably longer than you did. i do agree that a certain section of the saudi population has degenerated into sub human level. its quite alarming. but that has nothing to do with terrorism. as far as i'm concerned, and through my own experiences, saudis are pretty knowledgeable about true islam. the saudi governement has used this political tool of wahhabism for its own gain. the general public though i am sure abhors it. naturally, you find good and bad sections in every society. you cant possibly claim that all pakistanis are good or bad, or that all morrocans are good or bad. its just a rule of the world. its the same for the saudis, or atleast their last generation. the current one seems a bit out of it. i'll agree with you on that.

tank131 said:




They also provided funding to terrorists & have done everything that a fellow Islamic country SHOULD NEVER do by supporting & degenerating the Madras as they have in Morocco & other countries. Yes, they even supplied Morocco with surplus F-5E/F, M-60A1s & other equipment to this very day. I am against all contacts with Saudi Arabia, & believe that we should tell them to stick their money up their mouths & get lost. The growing fanatisim in Morocco is possibly a by product of many factors but in part it is nurtured by Saudi money.



Maybe so, but the Taliban have cast a dark spot in Pakistan to the rest of the world. Even to this day, the whole story & its implications have been damaging to Pakistan & its foreign relations with so many countries.



The Americans were more discrete with Saudi because they were less directly involved & somewhat discrete with Pakistan because they had more to gain rather than bullying Pakistan into supporting them.



You are right but why do the Saudis nurture problem-areas?



Keep in mind that the Saudis always go in to help the poorest rebel against the rest. They have divided communities in Africa, they have done the most unimaginable things with their money in order to extend their influence.



Better sell them nothing.

wiseking said:




That's a fact of the matter.



I disagree, they are not so knowledgble about Islam, they are just parrots who repeat everything that they have been ordered to at school & those 'traditions of Hanbal' & so forth, but in the end, it's the idealogy of the miserable.

When discussing with them, you find it's all predicated on what they were told but they have no ability for analysis/synthisis or research. They cannot discuss contemporary issues & consider people who do to be Kufar & embroiled in herisy & to them, the theme is always about women & growing beards. I openly say, "just because your Saudi women aren't worth spitting on don't deduct that all women are a repugnant" because at the end of the day it's about their inferiority & attempt to lower us to their level.



Generalisation isn't a problem as long as you don't victimise people. I'll tell you this much, Moroccans are much more inviting & savioury than Saudis in most cases. In fact, very few people would choose to visit Saudi over Morocco except perhaps the Kaba for Haj or Ummrah. Morocco is an open society that welcomes all foreigners & other Arabs alike, Saudi Arabia doesn't.

I had to pray in Masjids full of Pakistanis, Indians & Bengali Muslims because praying in a Saudi Masjid was considered taboo. I had no problem with it, on the contrary, I learned a lot about Pakistan & Pakisanis in these encounters among others (even Indains & Bengalis) & it was a good opportunity to practice english



Well, it'll take ages but first they must break the grip of the tribes & the regime.