110 replies to this topic

[Panzer-kiel]

EagleHannan, on 11 July 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

I think I have given this guy answers of his bakwas questions before. If you want Mr. Panzer I can re-paste here what I wrote before you or you would want to SH*T UP now since I am around and I promised you, I'll make your 2 cents disappear in the place right under your back pocket. You dont need to post here for all to know that you're a full time beighairat person whom we never begged to defend us (I have serious reservations about his claims of he facing off this and that). Your personality depicts from your Gorra wana be POSTs. Of course you dont want me to re-paste what I wrote about that as well.

If you want to discuss or put fwd your point of view, please do so, better is to refrain from pers attacks....you dont have any material to discuss, better is to stay quiet, otherwise, do please come to Sararogha, South Waziristan, where i will be your host for as long as you like.....do try that, would clear your thoughts regarding me!!

[rungroot]

Panzer-kiel, on 10 July 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

<p>&amp;nbsp;</p>
<div>Regarding the recent drone strike that killed 20 + persons......</div>
<div>Before posting anythin regarding this, i want to ask every one, whts bad if terrorists are being killed in these drone strikes....i mean i am also against US Operated drone strikes, but if they are killing terrorists, whts the harm?? People always say that these drones kill civilians, which is not the case.....i am posted here, near where these drones happen, i listen to terrorists chatter all day and night, they are going mad over this drone strike, which killed alot of their mates....atleast it makes me happier......what abt u??.....</div>
<div>P.S the last time &amp;nbsp;i posted such a thing in the forum, it started another heated discussion, happened recently as well...</div>

Your telling me that the a couple of hellfire missiles, two of which can set a whole city block on fire, fired on small tribal towns, where multiple families live in tight houses, did not kill civilians???  Has america now invented precision fire as well now???  For someone who claims to be in the army, you seem very unfamiliar with what the hellfire missile can do...


And most if not all terrorists come from the kunar province in afghanistan which is suppose to be in control of the nato/isaf forces.  Why aren't any drone attacks being carried out over there???

[Panzer-kiel]

rungroot, on 11 July 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

Your telling me that the a couple of hellfire missiles, two of which can set a whole city block on fire, fired on small tribal towns, where multiple families live in tight houses, did not kill civilians???  Has america now invented precision fire as well now???  For someone who claims to be in the army, you seem very unfamiliar with what the hellfire missile can do...


And most if not all terrorists come from the kunar province in afghanistan which is suppose to be in control of the nato/isaf forces.  Why aren't any drone attacks being carried out over there???

bro, am well aware of hellfire msls and their destructive capability, and i also know that there is ALOT of collateral damage that is being done due to these strikes, no argument against that, and i am against drone strikes on civilians.......however, all my recent comments were regarding THIS drone strike which killed 20 confirmed terrorists, thats my point... if it killed civilians, i would have been the first one to voice my protests here.....dont take me wrong regarding this topic, am all against US drone strikes against our civilians...!
/...plus the individuals which fight against the ISAF in Afghanistan, they cross over to our side once they are over with their activities, here they find their refuge, however, this is the time once they are targetted, either they are in some house/neighborhood or travelling in a vehicle, thats when they are most vulnerable!

[rungroot]

Panzer-kiel, on 11 July 2012 - 03:46 AM, said:

bro, am well aware of hellfire msls and their destructive capability, and i also know that there is ALOT of collateral damage that is being done due to these strikes, no argument against that, and i am against drone strikes on civilians.......however, all my recent comments were regarding THIS drone strike which killed 20 confirmed terrorists, thats my point... if it killed civilians, i would have been the first one to voice my protests here.....dont take me wrong regarding this topic, am all against US drone strikes against our civilians...!
/...plus the individuals which fight against the ISAF in Afghanistan, they cross over to our side once they are over with their activities, here they find their refuge, however, this is the time once they are targetted, either they are in some house/neighborhood or travelling in a vehicle, thats when they are most vulnerable!

So, those 20 people who were killed were only fighting in afghanistan but not against Pakistan? Or did they come from snuck into Pakistan from afghanistan to attack Pakistan.  Were they afghans or Pakistanis???

[Panzer-kiel]

rungroot, on 11 July 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

So, those 20 people who were killed were only fighting in afghanistan but not against Pakistan? Or did they come from snuck into Pakistan from afghanistan to attack Pakistan.  Were they afghans or Pakistanis???

...thats the main issue currently going on, terrorists who are fighting against us, here in Pakistan, serve as hosts to those coming from Afghanistan, we are supporting the ones who go across, but not those which are fighting against Pakistan Army!......!

[rungroot]

Panzer-kiel, on 11 July 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

...thats the main issue currently going on, terrorists who are fighting against us, here in Pakistan, serve as hosts to those coming from Afghanistan, we are supporting the ones who go across, but not those which are fighting against Pakistan Army!......!

If you are supporting the ones who go across, don't they tell the other ones not to fight you?  And how come your at liberty to say all this???? How do you get internet access out there any way?

[Panzer-kiel]

rungroot, on 11 July 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

If you are supporting the ones who go across, don't they tell the other ones not to fight you? And how come your at liberty to say all this???? How do you get internet access out there any way?

regarding internet access, all the units here have been provided with internet and landlines, which is an achievement in itself...
we catch all kinds of chatter of these terrorists, so we know whos going where, who got killed where......if u want, i can mail u one recording.....if such a things helps u believe me, its worth a try......!!

[rungroot]

Well, I would rather you post it up here for all of us to analyze.  And don't you think that Pakistan pulling out of this war would cool everything down?  Why are we still in this war, it is not our problem. Pulling out would make everyone think for sure that the army is no american stooge after all, now wouldn't it?

[Panzer-kiel]

rungroot, on 11 July 2012 - 04:21 AM, said:

Well, I would rather you post it up here for all of us to analyze. And don't you think that Pakistan pulling out of this war would cool everything down? Why are we still in this war, it is not our problem. Pulling out would make everyone think for sure that the army is no american stooge after all, now wouldn't it?

...hey how can i attach a media/audio file here?? do tell me....
yeah sure, if we pull out, am sure everythin will cool down, things will be back to normal, its not our war at all, we are fighting on someone else's behalf.....

[rungroot]

Panzer-kiel, on 11 July 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

...hey how can i attach a media/audio file here?? do tell me....
yeah sure, if we pull out, am sure everythin will cool down, things will be back to normal, its not our war at all, we are fighting on someone else's behalf.....

Just upload it on YouTube and post the link...

[Panzer-kiel]

rungroot, on 11 July 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

Just upload it on YouTube and post the link...

how about if i email u, gimme ur email, i wil mail it to u right now, u can then upload it on youtube!!!!

[rungroot]

rungroot786@gmail.com

[Panzer-kiel]

i have mailed it to u, lets see wht u make out of it......and if possible, do tackle people like EagleHannan, who dont hav any material to speak xcept talking nonsense....!

[PakSniper786]

rungroot, on 11 July 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

rungroot786@gmail.com

Oh Rungroot, don't have all the fun, tell me whats in the recording bro.

[SaudiArabian]

rungroot, on 10 July 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

Hey Bro,

Just a quick side note, can you PHULEEZ get rid of that GOD FORSAKEN avatar, UGH!!!  The saudiArabian flag was MashAllah so glorious.  Can you put that back?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

problem ?

[rungroot]

SaudiArabian, on 11 July 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

problem ?

And you replace the kalimah with that monstrosity?!?!?

[salaudin]

The same counts for you, and everyone else on this forum.

Please grow up.

Edited by platinum786, 11 July 2012 - 03:16 PM.

[rungroot]

deleted...

[Pikes]

i am eager to know what those scums are talking in the video.

[sabre2]

Pikes, on 11 July 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

i am eager to know what those scums are talking in the video.

I'm sure the taliban supporters 'blueazure and sadfur' will know what they are talking about, and if its anything incriminating I am sure they will deny it and accuse the CIA of  impersonating taliban and claim it is innocent people having a gossip.

[blueazure]

^^ they're asking when will that smart card inventor , sonologist papoo kid sabre2 come to Afghanistan  ...

( if you know what i mean ,_)

[EagleHannan]

Panzer-kiel, on 11 July 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

If you want to discuss or put fwd your point of view, please do so, better is to refrain from pers attacks....you dont have any material to discuss, better is to stay quiet, otherwise, do please come to Sararogha, South Waziristan, where i will be your host for as long as you like.....do try that, would clear your thoughts regarding me!!

Actually I did, I refrained a lot before I replied to you in another thread. Please PM me your COs name and sure I can confirm each and every claim your make. UNTIL then, I have no belief in your claims. Last time, I made it clear that not just your posts are contradicting but MISLEADING. They are to extent propaganda and I did my homework dear. I did make sure I discuss your point of view to PA officers, with good reputation (PM me, I'll tell you names and where they are. Don’t expect me to do that before I have your complete information) and I figured out that your narration of incidents is WRONG. Once I have your information, finding you is no problem. It’s no difficult; you know it and understand how it works. Thanks for the invitation, anyways. We'll see if it comes to that.



Let me clear to you again, I DID NOT GET PERSONAL; I simply nipped your propaganda in the bud last time WITH REASONS where you simple stopped answering me. The only reason I did not paste our last conversation was because I didn’t want to derail this thread and nor did I want to embarrass you (less you turn out to be someone you claim to be). What you did not understand is that, it was out of showing respect (of course after mods deleting my post without even going through what I am talking about). If you choose to take it up from we left last time. Please let me know, Inshallah you would not find me irrational.

Panzer-kiel, on 11 July 2012 - 03:46 AM, said:

bro, am well aware of hellfire msls and their destructive capability, and i also know that there is ALOT of collateral damage that is being done due to these strikes, no argument against that, and i am against drone strikes on civilians.......however, all my recent comments were regarding THIS drone strike which killed 20 confirmed terrorists, thats my point... if it killed civilians, i would have been the first one to voice my protests here.....dont take me wrong regarding this topic, am all against US drone strikes against our civilians...!
/...plus the individuals which fight against the ISAF in Afghanistan, they cross over to our side once they are over with their activities, here they find their refuge, however, this is the time once they are targetted, either they are in some house/neighborhood or travelling in a vehicle, thats when they are most vulnerable!

Replying to this boils my blood so bad that I would rather give the link where you and I talked about it already. Apparently you pay no heed to advice or think of yourself aboveboard. Otherwise, your argument is beyond pathetic and already tarnished. Please refresh your mind with the following conversation

http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.php?showtopic=98505&hl=&fromsearch=1

Look at post # 8 of above link where he said and I quote “but not a SINGLE civilian killed nor has been reported”.  This post is not very old, and now this guy is saying “i also know that there is ALOT of collateral damage that is being done due to these strikes”… Really ma homie!! Welcome to the real world, I am glad you’re waking up. Moreover, this captain (supposedly) wants victims to come from their graves and report to him otherwise he’z not gonna believe. Please read that page from top to bottom. It’s a request. Undeniable contradictions all over.

Not that I am hoping him to come to senses but for others to clear my point of view and especially to our respected mods who for the first time deleted my post. Please understand that no title, job or affiliation should allow us to tolerate Munafiqat and (since there is no English word which can properly describe this word) beighairati. I for one am inclined to call a spade a spade, comes what may.

Lives are lost, and someone is telling us “it’s ok”. Since his brother and sisters are not killed. Should I remind the respected forum of what “Honorable” nations do to single life lost? Should I need warn our brothers and sisters here how disgraceful it is and what becomes of nations whose fighting force tells the nation that they think it’s OK to let others violate its honor and kill its people as long as the enemy (supposed, he is not even clear about it) is killed? Going by his point of view its ok for one nation to intervene is others territory with the pretext of helping them. LOOK AT ARAB states, especially KSA which did the same, depended on the kuffar for their safety against the clear warnings of Prophet SAWW and what became of them. IS IT OK FOR Pakistan too?

What this guy did not understand is that we are actually helping him rectify his misunderstanding and telling him bluntly what this actually means. The post would be deleted only because he (supposedly) belongs to some institution or tribe but no attention is payed to the reality it’s trying to point to? Are we some idol worshippers? Have we replaced truth with worship of institutions? Is it not our FARD to help our brothers come back to senses? I rest my case. I would like to see if our army would shower invaders with roses when they come in the pretext of helping us and then guys like these asking us back “is it not ok?” Well how far are we going to stretch this chewing gum of “its ok”.

Panzer-kiel, on 11 July 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

...thats the main issue currently going on, terrorists who are fighting against us, here in Pakistan, serve as hosts to those coming from Afghanistan, we are supporting the ones who go across, but not those which are fighting against Pakistan Army!......!

And who told you that? So are you implying that the Afghan Taliban and Pakistani Taliban are the same? THAT IS WHAT he’z been IMPYING for so long. Guess what, that’s why dictionary was short of word equaling to “BS” to describe it. So Panzer I ask you again;

What made you come to this conclusion? “Captain Pakistan”, do you read about intelligence reports on who crossed the border and living where? Do you have time for that, or the authority? Can I also go tell locals we are Talibans and want a night stay? Do they offer free Afghai Breakfast too? ohh and probably need to hire a window to install RPG or small arms to fire on PA.  How do I pay, for night stay and window hiring? Are you "Captain Pakistan" part of all operations? Cause you seem very confident putting up facts regarding border crossings.

Panzer-kiel, on 11 July 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

how about if i email u, gimme ur email, i wil mail it to u right now, u can then upload it on youtube!!!!

Please someone tell what the recording said. Because I am shocked that while I am clearly asked to stop quoting officers and providing even general information on the web forums of my professional collaboration, a captain is allowed to post a recording he made while on duty? May I know who is authorizing this?  I very well know of info security measures taken by PA and this guy is posting stuff on a public form! Dude you better contact Julian Assange. It’s a friendly advice. Make some money collaborating with wikileaks before the time for that is over. Information regarding mission or about mission is never leaked like that, it’s not my assumption, it’s a fact. Lets just assume its no propaganda recording but real intercept. Well then enemy will know about which type and frequency of radios are being intercepted once on youtube. Sending a mission related recording to an unauthorized person and then asking him to put on youtube…. Hmm.. What’s your real name Panzer?

[SaudiArabian]

rungroot, on 11 July 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

And you replace the kalimah with that monstrosity?!?!?

you hurt my avatar's feelings, you really do.

[Ababeel]

No disrespect to Panzer-Kiel, as he is bound by military discipline, but I believe EagleHannan position on drone issue to be closer to the truth.

Even though establishment sitting in GHQ might claim it regrets/strongly protests civlians life lost in drones, in actuality their policy on the ground vis-a-vis drone for all these years leads one to beleive that "it is an acceptable cost to pay".

[Tipu-786]

There is no need to be abusive, it's meant as a joke.

Edited by platinum786, 12 July 2012 - 10:17 AM.

[Panzer-kiel]

EagleHannan, on 12 July 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

Lets just assume its no propaganda recording but real intercept. Well then enemy will know about which type and frequency of radios are being intercepted once on youtube.

shugal ki baat yeh hai k they know we have their comm sets, but since they are low cost, they use it alot, plus they use code-words for their locations,, names, actions etc......hats of to  those individuals who decrypt them, listening to them all day and night....!

[rungroot]

You know, off topic but I just realized something, through my android, I could directly make video recordings and post them on youtube.  That is actually pretty freakin COOL MAN!!!  I think instead of typing a reply or a response, I will RECORD a reply or a response and post it here.  It is just easier to speak your thoughts and feelings rather than typing it, isn't it???

MODS,
would that be okay?

[SaudiArabian]

rungroot, on 13 July 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

You know, off topic but I just realized something, through my android, I could directly make video recordings and post them on youtube.  That is actually pretty freakin COOL MAN!!!  I think instead of typing a reply or a response, I will RECORD a reply or a response and post it here.  It is just easier to speak your thoughts and feelings rather than typing it, isn't it???

MODS,
would that be okay?

that would be monstrosity!!

[rungroot]

SaudiArabian, on 13 July 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

that would be monstrosity!!

problem?

[rungroot]

SaudiArabian, on 13 July 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

that would be monstrosity!!

Hey besides, it won't be as bad as that monstrosity you call your avatar!!!

[KudosBot]

Our high-maintenance relationship with Pakistan


By David Ignatius, Saturday, July 14, 12:28 AM




Why did it take Washington more than seven months to apologize for the deaths of 24 Pakistani soldiers? You know the answer: It’s because the United States and Pakistan have the most neurotic, mutually destructive “friendly” relationship in the world.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton finally said the magic words in a July 3 phone call with her Pakistani counterpart: “We are sorry for the losses suffered by the Pakistani military.” A tepid apology, but enough that the Pakistanis agreed to reopen the border crossings into Afghanistan that had been closed since the Nov. 26 accidental attack.



This story is even stranger than has been reported. The Obama administration had reached a tentative decision to express regret months ago. But it balked after it had to apologize for another agonizing mistake, the Feb. 22 accidental burning of Korans at Bagram air base. A further delay resulted when Pakistan’s foreign minister, Hina Rabbani Khar, advised that an apology should wait until Pakistan’s parliament was in session.

It would be nice if the case of the delayed apology was an unusual example of U.S.-Pakistani mistrust. But it’s unfortunately a classic illustration of what’s so odd about this relationship. The two countries talk about strategic cooperation one month and feud the next. They claim to be allies against terrorism, even as each side’s intelligence service conducts operations the other regards as hostile.

A useful bridge in this neurotic relationship was Husain Haqqani, Pakistan’s former ambassador to Washington. He tried to maintain dialogue across the gulf of suspicion — and also tried to represent the frail civilian government, as opposed to the overpowering Pakistani military. What did Haqqani get for his trouble? He was fired after accusations that he was a traitor. He’s now preparing to teach this fall at Boston University, which is good for students there but a waste for Pakistan.

When you look back at the past few years of this relationship, what is striking is how the two countries always seem to be sulking — feeling unappreciated and ill-used. Since an open breach doesn’t suit either side, they avoid a final rupture. But the bad feeling has hardened to something dark and dense.

For examples of how crazy this relationship can be, consider two instances when President Obama tried to convey the message — something between a plea and a demand — for better Pakistani cooperation against al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Both times he got, basically, zilch.

●Obama sent a secret presidential letter dated Nov. 11, 2009, that stated: “We must find new and better ways to work together to disrupt (the extremists’) ability to plan attacks against targets in Pakistan, the region and beyond — including the United States — so that we can eventually destroy its networks.”

The response from President Asif Ali Zardari was likely drafted by Pakistani intelligence. “Let me right at the outset unequivocally reaffirm the resolve of the people of Pakistan to fight and uproot terrorism,” the letter began. But it spun off into a wild allegation of an Indian-backed “proxy war . . . in which neighboring intelligence agencies are using Afghan soil to perpetrate violence in Pakistan.”

Haqqani is said to have warned Islamabad that an ambivalent Pakistani response would be seen as unacceptable. The message apparently didn’t register.

●Obama met in the White House on Oct. 20, 2010, with Pakistani army chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani. According to one account, Obama warned that “trust does not happen overnight, but it has to happen. Otherwise we will be on a collision course.” As for the alleged threat posed by America’s rapprochement with India, Obama said flatly: “Your intelligence is wrong. You are hearing from the president of the United States that the U.S. wants a strong, stable Pakistan.”

And what was Kayani’s response? He handed Obama a 14-page memo titled “Pakistan’s Perspective” that said in its concluding section: “Pakistan is being made a scapegoat. . . . U.S. is ‘intrusive’ and ‘overbearing’ — wants to micromanage. U.S. is causing and maintaining a controlled chaos in Pakistan. The real aim of U.S. strategy is to de-nuclearize Pakistan.”

Still, said Kayani in the memo’s final passage: “At the end of the day, we would like to be standing in the right corner of the room.” So would America, especially as it begins withdrawing combat troops from Afghanistan.

So maybe we should be thankful for the bizarre behavior surrounding this month’s tepid apology. The crazy couple is patching up another quarrel. The soap opera continues. Better that than a nasty finale.

davidignatius@washpost.com


http://www.washingto...DoiW_story.html