36 replies to this topic

[sfhussain]

Panetta admits that US is at war in PakistanLeon Panetta

http://rt.com/usa/ne...r-Pakistan-225/
Hold the phone, anti-war activists. President Obama says that American troops are done with Operation Iraqi Freedom and their episode in Afghanistan is almost over. Now, though, it looks like the US is calling its operation in Pakistan an actual war.


­Only one day after American officials announced that US troops executed an alleged al-Qaeda higher-up with a drone strike in Pakistan, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta told reporters on Wednesday that America’s fair-weather ally is indeed serving as a battlefront in the War on Terror.
“We are fighting a war in the FATA, we are fighting a war against terrorism,” Secretary Panetta said this week. Panetta was referring to the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, a region in northwest Pakistan that is currently the scene of American airstrikes.
Since well before the top-secret raid and execution of al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden brought US troops into Pakistan, the American military has tried time and time again to sugarcoat its activities overseas. Despite being an at-one-time top ally of the United States, Pakistani officials have continuously condemned the US over Uncle Sam’s continuing air strikes with unmanned aerial vehicles, or drones. Now after years of trying to re-develop those deteriorating ties with Pakistan, the United States’ top military man flatly called his country’s operations in FATA an actual war.
To put it simply, this might not be good news for anyone.
While Panetta’s comment came only a day after the Pentagon confirmed that al-Qaeda’s “number-two in command,” Abu Yahya al-Libi, was executed with a drone strike in the FATA region, it also coincides — coincidently — with a statement made by another former CIA official. Robert Greiner, the one-time head of the CIA’s counterterrorism center, tells reporters this week that America’s mishandling of drone attacks is creating a safe haven for terrorists.
In a report published this week by the UK’s Guardian, Greiner says that ongoing attacks that target a broad and often unspecific range of targets is causing anti-American sentiments to increase faster than the US can actually combat terror. After the US has increased its air strikes in locales such as Pakistan and Yemen, says Greiner, insurgency has only become more rampant.
Because the Obama administration has gone on the record to say that all military-age men in strike zone are considered combatants, Greiner believes that unrest with the US is adding up at a rate that repeated strikes won’t help.
"We have gone a long way down the road of creating a situation where we are creating more enemies than we are removing from the battlefield. We are already there with regards to Pakistan and Afghanistan," says Greiner.
"That brings you to a place where young men, who are typically armed, are in the same area and may hold these militants in a certain form of high regard. If you strike them indiscriminately you are running the risk of creating a terrific amount of popular anger. They have tribes and clans and large families. Now all of a sudden you have a big problem … I am very concerned about the creation of a larger terrorist safe haven in Yemen.”

[sfhussain]

Peace mission hurts: NATO will leave Afghanistan with ‘wounds’Published: 06 June, 2012, 23:05

http://www.rt.com/ne...fghanistan-199/

Afghan officials have once again accused NATO of a deadly strike resulting in civilian casualties. Ahmed Quraishi, from the PakNationalists Forum, says that in last decade Afghanistan has lost more civilians than the US on 9/11.
On Wednesday, a deadly NATO strike reportedly killed 18 people, some of them women and children. RT spoke to Ahmed Quraishi, the president of the PakNationalists Forum, who says the US military and NATO are inciting chaos in the region.
RT:It's only a week since a UN report said the number of civilian deaths in Afghanistan by NATO is too high – and now another deadly air strike. What impact is this going to have?
Ahmed Quraishi: I would not take into account the denial of NATO. The Afghan government does not have a reason to lie, and of course they have the reputation to protect their own people, they are answerable to their people. So I would go with what the Afghan government is saying, and they are saying that civilians have been killed today.
Without exaggeration it would be safe to say that the vast majority of the Afghan people have really rebelled against the foreign occupation of their country… In everything you hear frankly winning the hearts and minds is a really ancient history. The Americans have absolutely lost it as far as Afghan peoples' hearts and minds are concerned.
RT:The mission was to protect the wider Afghan population, wasn’t it? In another event, 22 civilians were killed in twin terrorist bombings earlier in the day as well – this protection of the Afghan people is not going too well, is it?
AQ: The Afghan people have lost more of their civilians Afghanistan in the first decade of the 21st century people than the US lost on 9/11. It was a tragic event on 9/11, but this is no lesser tragedy. And we don’t see any justice in this – that the Afghan people could lose this many and of course NATO and the US military in Afghanistan are very quick to condemn the Taliban for their bombings in various cities when civilians are killed. But how is the US military and NATO any different? They kill as many civilians there.
Any future government in Afghanistan, after the Americans are out, in order to reclaim credibility, they will have to initiate some reconciliation process where they would have to move some legal cases, maybe go as far as the UN or the International Court of Justice  and ask for compensation for what happened.
Afghanistan will be left with wounds that would take decades to heal. Thousands and thousands of civilians have been killed. Who will look after the orphans, who will look after the psychological and the other social problems resulting from these endless deaths of civilians. And there is no accountability whatsoever on the US military and the NATO.
RT:Let`s talk about Pakistan a little bit. Pakistan's formally complained about the U.S. drone strikes there on Tuesday, saying the alliance acts "against international law." Sounds markedly similar to what Western leaders accuse Syria's president of doing. Are there some double standards here?
AQ: No one has undermined the international system in the 21st century more than NATO and the United States, and this is very dangerous. If we go back a hundred years ago, the early years of the 20th century, the very reason the world went on to extreme armament and weaponization and of course endless wars is because of the mistakes committed by Western powers. And we are very concerned to see these very same Western powers messing up and planting chaos in our region, and we will pay the price for what these people are doing here. The major powers in this region – Russia, China, Pakistan and others – should really step in and try to contain some of the mess the Western powers are leaving behind.

[rungroot]

Uhm, yeah so us "closet" Talibanis have been saying this from the get go, It's just these enlightened liberals who are just now realizing it.  Or they still asleep???

[sfhussain]

The $s to liberals and $ visa creates obstacles to seeing reality!

[Pikes]

Chalo acha hai he cleared it.  our liberals (najam sethi, asma jahangir and the gang) will still find a way to justify the slaughter of 100 civilians for 1 actual militant

[Caesar]

It is nothing more than sour grapes. It is very simple US is not getting anything from Pakistan and is getting very desperate. These are all BS statements. US is in zero position to start a war here, they do not have the capability yet of doing this and their economy cannot afford to spend another 1 trillion dollars on another war.

[SUPARCO]

Caesar, on 07 June 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

It is nothing more than sour grapes. It is very simple US is not getting anything from Pakistan and is getting very desperate. These are all BS statements. US is in zero position to start a war here, they do not have the capability yet of doing this and their economy cannot afford to spend another 1 trillion dollars on another war.

Salaam,

Why will America need to spend a trillion dollar on Pakistan?  It is Pakistan we're talking about here and not Afghanistan!  Pakistan will be just a mop up job for the Americans.

After all, the last time around only a threat to "bomb Pakistan back to the stone age" was enough for the entire Pakistani military to surrender and become the infamous "frontline state in war on terror".

I question Pakistan Army's, Pakistan Air Force's and Pakistan Navy's courage, will, resolve, ability, determination and commitment to fight the Americans.  Pakistan is probably the only country on Earth where retired Generals, Commanders, Lieutenants, Captains, Chiefs, Brigadiers and what not appear on more than 30 Pakistani news channels every sungle day explaining why Pakistan will be easily crushed in a war with America.

Salaam

[faizan khaliq]

Against that superior foe like USA it is not Armed forces but the nation which has to fight but are we ready ? my answer is no,
but if we don,t resist will it stop USA ? the answer is again No
fighting back is the only option and we have majority on the western border who are armed and die hard Pakistani,s
Ultimately Pakistan will prevail but with lot of sacrifices but first of all we have to take out the hypocracy

[safdar]

SUPARCO, on 07 June 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

Salaam,

Why will America need to spend a trillion dollar on Pakistan?  It is Pakistan we're talking about here and not Afghanistan!  Pakistan will be just a mop up job for the Americans.


Salaam

That might be true, however America does not have the resources to contain a huge population like Pakistan’s. Those supply routes will be riddled with traps from Karachi to Bloachistan. And even we as Pakistani’s don’t know what other religious groups will rise up to fight. I doubt it would be a turkey shoot for the Americans. They seriously do need to sit down and resolve this issue. America has come a long long way bartering their stay in Afghanistan to just throw it all away. Granted that no government is infallible amd Pakistan aswell as America are at fault here, but  America should seriously reconsider the wisdom of making thinly veiled threats against Pakistan that have no moral traction, which is their principle for a war. Pride comes before a fall and America might just find it self in a position soon it wished it had never pursued military primacy over Pakistan in the first place. unless of course America is deliberately seeking out the fall of Pakistan, then would they blame Pakistan if  we were to adopt a hair-trigger retaliatory posture and delegate nuclear launch authority to low level militia commanders?

[sfhussain]

Last warning? Panetta threatens Pakistan

http://rt.com/usa/ne...n-war-safe-307/


Only days after US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta admitted that American troops are engaged in a war in rural northwest Pakistan, the Pentagon’s top-dog says that the United States is losing patience with their once amiable ally.
Secretary Panetta tells reporters and military leaders from Kabul, Afghanistan on Thursday that the United States’ relationship with Pakistan is being put to the test because he feels like officials there are all too willing to take in insurgents from neighboring Afghanistan.
"It is difficult to achieve peace in Afghanistan as long as there is safe haven for terrorists in Pakistan,” Panetta says Thursday.
"It is very important for Pakistan to take steps. It is an increasing concern, the issue of safe haven, and we are reaching the limits of our patience," Panetta adds in his Thursday briefing.
It’s been more than a decade since the United States military began an occupation in Afghanistan to fight the Taliban and al-Qaeda, a mission that has necessitated a cooperative relationship between the US and Pakistan. As tensions worsen between those countries, though, Panetta suggests that the United States might soon hit a snapping point. Particularly, Panetta is at odds over Pakistan’s own handling with America’s enemies.
Just one day before his latest address, Panetta said during an intelligence briefing on Wednesday, “We are fighting a war in the FATA, we are fighting a war against terrorism," referring to the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, a region in northwest Pakistan. The US has long urged Pakistani officials to patrol the region themselves but that request has regularly been ignored by authorities who fear any state intervention can spur a civil war. Panetta's citing of America's own endeavors there as a "war" is believed to be the first time that a top-ranking defense official has declared the lengthy military operations in Pakistan as such. America’s interest in that war is not being aided sufficiently but its host country, however, because Panetta has now twice in one week had harsh words for Pakistan.
Earlier in the week, former CIA official Robert Greiner told the UK’s Guardian that America’s unrelenting drone-led air strikes on suspected terrorists is “creating more enemies than we are removing from the battlefield” and suggested that it is creating a safe haven for insurgents in neighboring Yemen.
“That brings you to a place where young men, who are typically armed, are in the same area and may hold these militants in a certain form of high regard. If you strike them indiscriminately you are running the risk of creating a terrific amount of popular anger,” said Greiner.
In his own address from Kabul, Panetta says that creation of safe havens in Pakistan will put the pressure on American troops to crack down on insurgency, even if that means attacking within the borders of its Middle East ally.
"It is an increasing concern that safe havens exist and those like the Haqqanis make use of that to attack our forces," explains Panetta.
"We are reaching the limits of our patience for that reason. It is extremely important for Pakistan to take action to prevent (giving) the Haqqanis safe havens, and for terrorists to use their country as a safety net to conduct attacks on our forces."

[sfhussain]

We should stop sticking our head in the sand. The yanks are going to Invade Pakistan - no one in Us will raise a hand - instead it will be yeay yeah - nuke the Pakis.

Stop whining and making excuses - just forget the Us univarsities.

Most likely most Pakistanis in US will be in Internment camps.

[faizan khaliq]

sfhussain, on 09 June 2012 - 03:02 AM, said:

We should stop sticking our head in the sand. The yanks are going to Invade Pakistan - no one in Us will raise a hand - instead it will be yeay yeah - nuke the Pakis.

Stop whining and making excuses - just forget the Us univarsities.

Most likely most Pakistanis in US will be in Internment camps.

yeh the concentration camps may be possibility but really in this age of information would it be possible ?they will only increase few more war crimes in their account
In the light of history US warmongers are criminals
They like it or not reversal of Anglo Saxon race has started .It is matter of time now .

[safdar]

That’s all they can do, to nuke us with ICBMs and use a different “space based” unheard weapon to take out buried nuclear stockpiles and warheads. But that’s a far fetched idea and a very  expensive one with no guarantees. Any major attack on Pakistan prior to Iran will also allow Iran to take in most Pakistani scientists and weapons which will increase their capability two fold within months. I think America is thinking to rather send the newly “anointed” afghan army across the border into Pakistan. Believe it or not but America’s patience indicates they are looking hard for a proxy to fight in Pakistan. If they come in themselves (boots on the ground) we will be the proxy for someone else and they cant risk that. The only problem with Afghanistan and America is the supply routes for the afghan army, because Pakistan can block all supply routes in and out of Afghanistan. It could be a joint "adventure" where American aircraft carrier will provide air support from the Pakistani south coastline and an active front from the Pakistani western borders, all they need is a month.

However in that month what are they realistically going to achieve? Who will be their primary target? The haqani’s, TTP, LeT, Pakistani army? securing Blochistan?

It’s a complicated situation for the Americans no matter what they do in Pakistan, their primary objective will have to be to take out 100% of all nuclear warheads and stockpile. Not easy.


All America can do is conduct night raids in Pakistan’s tribal belt that’s all.

Besides panettas is not the president, he’s the presidents dog! Let him bark.

[1Pakistani]

safdar, on 09 June 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

That's all they can do, to nuke us with ICBMs and use a different "space based" unheard weapon to take out buried nuclear stockpiles and warheads. But that's a far fetched idea and a very  expensive one with no guarantees. Any major attack on Pakistan prior to Iran will also allow Iran to take in most Pakistani scientists and weapons which will increase their capability two fold within months. I think America is thinking to rather send the newly "anointed" afghan army across the border into Pakistan. Believe it or not but America's patience indicates they are looking hard for a proxy to fight in Pakistan. If they come in themselves (boots on the ground) we will be the proxy for someone else and they cant risk that. The only problem with Afghanistan and America is the supply routes for the afghan army, because Pakistan can block all supply routes in and out of Afghanistan. It could be a joint "adventure" where American aircraft carrier will provide air support from the Pakistani south coastline and an active front from the Pakistani western borders, all they need is a month.

However in that month what are they realistically going to achieve? Who will be their primary target? The haqani's, TTP, LeT, Pakistani army? securing Blochistan?

It's a complicated situation for the Americans no matter what they do in Pakistan, their primary objective will have to be to take out 100% of all nuclear warheads and stockpile. Not easy.


All America can do is conduct night raids in Pakistan's tribal belt that's all.

Besides panettas is not the president, he's the presidents dog! Let him bark.

It sounds like 10 steps India will take clip prepared by Indian media back in 2008 after Mumbai drama.

However, wouldnt you agree it would be pathetic to assume Pakistan will sit n watch all this happen.

1. No Doubt USA has overwhelming power over Pakistan when it comes to weapon but it does not mean Pakistan itself is without arms. We have huge arsenal of missile and total tally of which is unknown. It is backed by battlefield missiles (NASR etc) and battlefield nukes to be delivered using NASR. War with USA will eventually lead to Nuclear weapon going off at some stage hence their carrier fleet better be out of our reach and similarly they can unleash havoc on Pakistan. But its a total MAD scenario and there is question mark on whether Pakistan has an ICBM where many people saying yes we do hence it will change the whole shape of war with many western cities being in our target sight.

2.How would USA take our nukes???? unless of course overnight our general allow them access apart from that it is impossible for them given 500k active and same number of reserve force. Whereas USA only has 100k or so in Afghanistan. So speaking of taking nuke by force is a fantcy and I hope USA does not try to make it reality otherwise it will be disaster. As many say Ghazva Hind is to happen and may as well be this where India might move from the east.... But in reality it is impossible for them to get the nuke before they go off somewhere around the world. Also dont forget the factor of armed population which will rise up to complement the armed forces.

USA is not stupid and they are just playing dirty game to scare Zardari and Co into action. However, nothing will come out of it.

[SUPARCO]

1Pakistani, on 09 June 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

It sounds like 10 steps India will take clip prepared by Indian media back in 2008 after Mumbai drama.

However, wouldnt you agree it would be pathetic to assume Pakistan will sit n watch all this happen. ...

Salaam,

America has already bombed Pakistan 330 times... counting.

Salaam

[1Pakistani]

SUPARCO, on 09 June 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

Salaam,

America has already bombed Pakistan 330 times... counting.

Salaam

I agree with you on principle but I dont agree with you in the context of what is being discussed. I though do regard this as act of war and we ought to response with full force.

But my comments were in full blown conflict and where there is question of boots on the grounds, as that will be whole new ball game and will compel action from Pakistani leadership.

[Jazba-e-Kashmir]

We want new terms of engagements with US


Prime minister says Pakistan wants new terms of engagement with the United States.



Addressing a news conference in Lahore on Sunday, prime minister said Pakistan wants new terms of engagement with the US and NATO will be evolved in the light of national interests and recommendations of the Parliament.

He said following the Salala check post incident‚ the government blocked the NATO supplies in accordance with the aspirations of the people. He said the decision on the restoration of NATO supplies will be taken after taking on board all the stakeholders.

Referring to Arsalan graft case, he said CJP cannot hear his son s case but should hear Musa Gilani s case.

PM Gilani said there is no room for marshal law in the country now, adding that PPP had played the main role in restoration of constitution and judiciary. It respects the judiciary and is facing a number of cases against itself.

He said the political parties‚ which are giving lectures on democracy‚ should focus their attention to hold the local bodies  elections. He said the local bodies elections should be held on party basis. He said the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa government wants to hold local bodies elections on party basis as they have roots in the people.


When asked about the general elections‚ he said these will be held after the completion of the mandated five year term of the present government.

To a question the Prime Minister said that PPP-led government is taking various measure to solve the power shortage in the country. He said since coming into power‚ the present government has added three thousand five hundred mega watts of electricity to the national grid.

Prime Minister Gilani said talks are underway with Iran for a one thousand mega watts power project. He said that PPP led government is also working on solar and hydel power projects. He said that two nuclear power plants have been made functional while two are in the pipeline.

He said the Punjab government has failed to add even a single megawatt of electricity‚ and now allocated funds for power generation in the next year s provincial budget first time.

To a question regarding Pakistan s relations with the neighbour countries‚ he said Pakistan has cordial and friendly relations with India‚ China‚ Iran and Russia. Similarly‚ it enjoys very cordial relations with the Central Asian Republics and has strengthened them further.

He said that the trade relations with China are on the new height‚ while Pakistan has opened a new chapter with Russia in this regard as well.

The Prime Minister particularly referred Pakistan s trade relations with India and said that these will benefit Pakistan s economy more. He said that the Transit Trade Agreement signed with Afghanistan will also benefit Pakistan and we are considering it to expand it beyond Afghanistan.

http://dunyanews.tv/...MiNOaWQ9ODQzNTk=

[SUPARCO]

1Pakistani, on 09 June 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

I agree with you on principle but I dont agree with you in the context of what is being discussed. I though do regard this as act of war and we ought to response with full force.

But my comments were in full blown conflict and where there is question of boots on the grounds, as that will be whole new ball game and will compel action from Pakistani leadership.

Salaam,

Boots on the ground also happened on May 2, 2011 and Pakistan Army's and Pakistan Air Force's response was... well they were unresponsive.

Salaam

[safdar]

SUPARCO, on 10 June 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Boots on the ground also happened on May 2, 2011 and Pakistan Army's and Pakistan Air Force's response was... well they were unresponsive.

There were other operations as well, 15 suspicious American deaths in Pakistan, 7 in a single day!

http://icasualties.o.../ByTheatre.aspx

May 2 also probably took the Americans many years to plan and I doubt it went down as text book entry for them. Losing a secret weapon under suspicious circumstances, maybe men as well. I’m sure they have reservations about regularly sending in men on night raids in Pakistan, which also indicates that drones are ineffective and merely a psychological weapon used to pressure Pakistan into submission. And the next step is obviously night raids, but with added dangers, also controversial for Americans as well. Lets face it, their stance on WOT from the on set regarding NWFP FATA regions was to pressure and subdue Pakistan government and military, not specifically to target terrorists. presently, going after Haqani, TTP etc and threatening Pakistan ( breach of sovereignty) at the same time is similar to their sloppy cycling of rationale regarding WOT and being in Afghanistan I.e. terrorism, women’s rights, education, narcotics etc and then, failed peace talks with the Talibans. which is clearly making it look like a another defeat for the Americans (after Iraq). Only becuase the Americans have lost purpose for this weird war.

[SUPARCO]

Salaam,

Thanks brother Safdar for the link.



http://icasualties.o.../ByTheatre.aspx

It's quite an interesting list.  I wish Pakistan also had a list of all the fallen for the last ten years.  Maybe only then the Pakistani people can finally start seeing the magnitude of the sacrifice it has and still is making for the Americans.

Salaam

[Ababeel]

Kayani refuses to meet US assistant secretary: ISPR

RAWALPINDI: Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has refused to meet US assistant secretary of Defence Peter Lavoy after Leon Panetta’s accusation about Pakistan of having safe havens for insurgents.

On Thursday, US Secretary of Defence Leon Panetta had said during his visit to Kabul that Washington was running out of patience with Islamabad over its reluctance to go after the militant Haqqani group in its semi-governed northwestern tribal region bordering Afghanistan.

Sources told Online that General Kayani has refused the US assistant secretary Defence of giving him a time slot for meeting. “Army Chief conveyed the Pentagon that due to his commitments he could not meet the visiting US assistant secretary of Defence,” clamed the official.

Peter Lavoy, however tried his level best to have a meeting with Kayani. “During last three days Lavoy constantly remains in touch with General Headquarter (GHQ) for the meeting with the Army Chief,” he added.

The official said the Pakistan army was annoyed on the US drone policy for Pakistan and that Panetta’s statement added fuel in the working relation between both allies in war against terrorism.

Meanwhile, a diplomatic source told Online that the second round of Pak-US talks on the resumption of communication line for NATO has also failed. “US assistant secretary of Defence Peter Lavoy will now leave the country late Sunday or early Monday with empty hands,” said the source.

An official of ISPR has denied the report that General Kayani has refused to meet US assistant secretary of Defence and told Online that because of weekend the meeting could not took place. “Saturday and Sunday are also off in army,” he added.

US embassy acting spokesmen Robert Raines said no meeting was on scheduled between Army Chief and Peter Lavoy. “US assistant secretary of Defence, however had a meeting with his Pakistani counterpart,” said Raines.

http://www.onlinenew...94845&catname=1

http://www.pakistank...secretary-ispr/

[SUPARCO]

Salaam,

American threats don't seem to be working.  Pakistan may have some sort of Chinese and/or Russian backing for this in order to be standing up against the Americans.

Surprisingly, there's no movement reported at all on the Eastern Border.  Which is very very unusual as the kniving Indians have never missed a single opportunity like this in the past.  All these recent short-range nuclear missile tests by Pakistan seemed to have stopped the Indians in their tracks as well.

Salaam

[blueazure]

^^ i can assure you that PA has not just made paper plans but adequate response regimes ( which have been tested countless times )  to counter indian IBGs conducting cold start .  im not allowed to talk more

[rungroot]

blueazure, on 11 June 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

^^ i can assure you that PA has not just made paper plans but adequate response regimes ( which have been tested countless times )  to counter indian IBGs conducting cold start .  im not allowed to talk more

The question is that do they have an adequet response developed to counter the indians  and the americans  at the same time ....

[Ababeel]

US withdraws negotiators from Pakistan, no supply deal

WASHINGTON: The United States is withdrawing its team of negotiators from Pakistan without securing a long-sought deal with Islamabad to allow trucks to again supply Nato troops in neighboring Afghanistan, the Pentagon said on Monday.

“I believe that some of the team left over the weekend and the remainder of the team will leave shortly,” George Little, a Pentagon spokesman, told reporters. “This was a US decision.”

AFP adds: “The decision was reached to bring the team home for a short period of time,” George Little told reporters.

http://dawn.com/2012...no-supply-deal/

[MoThSmOkE]

Credit where its due. PPP has managed to do something to further Pakistan's interests.

All the US would do is conduct drone strikes and encourage Afghan army to provoke Pakistan in cross border raids.

[rungroot]

MoThSmOkE, on 11 June 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

Credit where its due. PPP has managed to do something to further Pakistan's interests.

All the US would do is conduct drone strikes and encourage Afghan army to provoke Pakistan in cross border raids.

If you really wanna give credit then give credit to the bayonet that poked the Pakistanioan pay pishaab government in there arses through the sharp pointed pen of the cjp. Maybe the GHQ isn't sold out after all.

[blueazure]

rungroot, on 11 June 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

The question is that do they have an adequet response developed to counter the indians  and the americans  at the same time ....

no military can fight two fronts ....

[rungroot]

blueazure, on 11 June 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

no military can fight two fronts ....

Unless its Khalid bin  Walid's military, or someone like him.  :-)

[blueazure]

rungroot, on 11 June 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

Unless its Khalid bin  Walid's military, or someone like him.  :-)

agreed....

[rungroot]

Hey your know what?  It just dawned upon me that the americans  have always threatened to launch an amphibious assault to secure the supply route.  Well it's been closed for 8 months now.  What oh  what on earth happened to the hoora us marines and their amphibious force?  Maybe that is another reason yet why they are so frustrated, their not so hidden weakness of being a "bhus bhara shayr" has been now thoroughly exposed. america stands exposed  completely nanga putanga.  LOL...

[Ababeel]

Last four paragraph interesting read.

Quote

A Blow to the System
Ahmed Quraishi
Thursday, June 14, 2012

Pakistan’s failed and destructive politics have reached a new height with the Bahria Town case. If anyone thought the restoration of democracy in 2008 after a long break would bring maturity to the system, they were mistaken.

What was the deal-breaker between Pakistan and the United States? And does Pakistan’s military establishment really want to eliminate rights activist Asma Jahangir? Last, how should the courts deal with Husain Haqqani?

Let’s take a quick look.

The Arsalan case: Aside from the details, the case is a new low for Pakistan’s failed politics. This is new evidence proving that a failed and unstable system and immature players are dealing a blow to Pakistan’s internal stability.

Can the military be involved? It’s highly unlikely considering the army chief’s vows to stay away from politics, a promise he has so far kept. The list of beneficiaries is long. What the case really demonstrates is that Pakistani politics require a ruthless purge.

Our homeland can’t progress without cleaning up the system. That’s the lesson of the past two decades. Our politics are focused on destruction more than building. There are some tough questions for our media too.

The relationship between a real estate tycoon and top journalists is disturbing. The rise and power of the Bahria Town enterprise is also something that does not bode well for the Pakistani state. We first saw political parties challenging the state and now private companies, such as the Bahria Town, are doing the same. Is it in the interest of the country?

Asma Jahangir: If she really faced what she describes as a ‘credible’ threat to her life, a lawyer like her would know that the first thing to do was to report it to police.

But she didn’t and her excuse is not very convincing. The manner in which she immediately reached out to foreign media outlets to accuse Pakistan’s military was too organised to be a panic attack. It’s obvious that the lines between Ms Jahangir’s work as a biased political activist and supporter of the Zardari government and her work as a rights activist have become blurred.

She’s been crying wolf against Pakistan’s military for a long time now, and mostly for political reasons. Her crude anti-military remarks during Husain Haqqani’s trial prove her political bias.

The Defence Ministry’s statement challenging her to register a police case was a right move, but the military institution should legally counter such blatant politically-motivated attacks, which recently have been in sync with the attacks on our military and intelligence from foreign governments that have their own agendas.

Memogate: The now famous anti-Pakistan memo seeking US role in senior appointments inside Pakistan’s military and intelligence agencies was a breathtaking example of treason by any standard in the modern world history. Husain Haqqani’s indictment should not close the case.

The probe should now be expanded to find out his accomplices inside Pakistan. Who were the members of the new national security team that was proposed to take over with a foreign nod had the memo been acted upon?

The former envoy’s spouse had access to the president as his media adviser. The security breach warrants a wider probe now that the question of Haqqani’s culpability is settled.

The US: Let me break a piece of news here. One of the key deal-breakers in the Pak-American talks on restoring the Nato supply line was the question of inspecting the containers entering and exiting Afghanistan via Pakistan’s territory.

The Pakistani side suspects the weapons and other war material in the containers reached anti-Pakistan terrorists in Balochistan and the tribal belt in the past. Pakistani negotiators wanted a foolproof way of ensuring that the material inside the containers does not ‘leak’ inside Pakistan.

Of course it’s not possible to monitor every container once inside the country. So the best way to go was to check the containers at entry and exit. Strangely, the Americans initially refused and then insisted that scanners to check the containers would come from the US.

No they won’t, said the Pakistani side, adding we’re free to procure the scanners from anywhere we want, including China. So, what is the US government really hiding here?

Email: aq@paknationalists.com


http://www.thenews.c...w-to-the-system

[sfhussain]

US deploys its biggest aircraft carrier near Gawadar

http://www.pakistant...kistani-waters/




KARACHI - After failing to strike a deal on NATO supplies with Pakistan, the United States has moved its nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Enterprise into Pakistani territorial waters near Gawadar, according to media reports on Thursday. The ship’s deployment in Pakistan’s territorial waters is a violation of international laws. After the deployment of the aircraft carrier in Pakistani seas, the country’s security agencies are now investigating into the matter, sources said. They added that the movement apparently showed the increasing interest of the US in Balochistan province. “The US has moved its biggest aircraft carrier 65 to 70 nautical miles away from Gawadar in the second week of June,” a news website quoted its sources as saying. The USS Enterprise, which holds a crew of over 4,000, is a veteran of several wars.

[rungroot]

sfhussain, on 14 June 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

US deploys its biggest aircraft carrier near Gawadar

http://www.pakistant...kistani-waters/




KARACHI - After failing to strike a deal on NATO supplies with Pakistan, the United States has moved its nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Enterprise into Pakistani territorial waters near Gawadar, according to media reports on Thursday. The ship’s deployment in Pakistan’s territorial waters is a violation of international laws. After the deployment of the aircraft carrier in Pakistani seas, the country’s security agencies are now investigating into the matter, sources said. They added that the movement apparently showed the increasing interest of the US in Balochistan province. “The US has moved its biggest aircraft carrier 65 to 70 nautical miles away from Gawadar in the second week of June,” a news website quoted its sources as saying. The USS Enterprise, which holds a crew of over 4,000, is a veteran of several wars.

Here we go.  Let's see how the GHQ responds.

[faizan khaliq]

No need of getting provoked by Presence of USS Enterprise in our territorial waters,they will keep provoking Pakistan so that They get an excuse of open war to restore their supply through Balochistan.This will solve few problems for them
1.Humiliate Pakistan through military defeat will restore their lost pride in Afghan defeat
2.Balochistan corridor for future quick intervention in Afghanistan
3.Creation of independent Balochistan  which would be on her knees to USA.
Lastly sending this junk in the sea bed is not a problem for Pakistan ,it will not take more than few minutes but we will lose diplomatic options altogether

[HKK]

sfhussain, on 14 June 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

US deploys its biggest aircraft carrier near Gawadar

http://www.pakistant...kistani-waters/




KARACHI - After failing to strike a deal on NATO supplies with Pakistan, the United States has moved its nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Enterprise into Pakistani territorial waters near Gawadar, according to media reports on Thursday. The ship’s deployment in Pakistan’s territorial waters is a violation of international laws. After the deployment of the aircraft carrier in Pakistani seas, the country’s security agencies are now investigating into the matter, sources said. They added that the movement apparently showed the increasing interest of the US in Balochistan province. “The US has moved its biggest aircraft carrier 65 to 70 nautical miles away from Gawadar in the second week of June,” a news website quoted its sources as saying. The USS Enterprise, which holds a crew of over 4,000, is a veteran of several wars.

This foriegn ship is OUR territorial waters and we are sitting on our backsides!!! Why this was allowed to come this close to Pakistan? have we not got any visibility of what going in and out of arabian sea? Its a freaking ship not a bloody drone which can sneak inside Pakistan.

Pakistan must invoke UN and tell them that this is clear violation of internation laws and if that ship doesnt go out of our waters in next 48 hours we will take military action and all responsiblity would be on the yanks.

[Ababeel]

US pressure not to be accepted, says Gen Wynne

ISLAMABAD, June 15: In the strongest response yet to American strong-arm tactics, the Pakistan military on Friday said it would not accept any pressure to abandon the stance taken in negotiations with the United States.

“We will accept no pressure for standing up for our principles,” said Gen Khalid Shameem Wynne, Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC), at a graduation ceremony of National Security and War Course at the National Defence University.

The comments came amid intensifying tensions between Islamabad and Washington. While US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta’s ridiculing of Pakistani security forces in India and the remarks on presence of safe havens in tribal areas wasn’t helpful, what incensed the military top brass was his backing for restrictions on military aid for Pakistan.

Secretary Panetta had said that “We (US) are reaching the limits of our patience here” for what is said to be Pakistan’s tolerance for Haqqani network and other militant groups running insurgency from sanctuaries in tribal areas.

But Gen Wynne categorically denied this allegation in his speech at the defence university. “We are combating wholeheartedly the menace of extremism and terrorism so as to banish them from our society. The people and the armed forces of Pakistan have taken up this challenge and our soldiers as well as innocent civilians are sacrificing their lives for this cause. We seek nothing beyond secure frontiers and pose no threat to any country,” the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff committee underscored.

The general used the occasion to remind the Americans that there could be no peace without a resolution of the Kashmir issue.

“I must also point out that as long as regional disputes, especially Kashmir, remain unresolved, stability will remain a distant dream. We must therefore continue for a just solution of the Kashmir dispute as it is only fair to all the people who dwell in this region.”

Talks on a new transit agreement for Nato supplies, meanwhile, have been suspended since last week. Both Pakistan and the US have separately said that the negotiations stalled because of bigger issues in relationship and not just because of differences over transit fee.

Diplomatic sources in the United States now blame Pakistan for blocking the Nato supply route deal by raising afresh the apology issue, claiming that all issues had been settled during and after the Chicago summit.

The downward trajectory in bilateral relationship, which started in January last year, when CIA operative Raymond Davis shot dead two young men in Lahore, aggravated with the Osama bin Laden denouement and then the Salala border post attacks in which 24 Pakistani soldiers were killed.

The US disregard of demands for an apology over the Salala incident and cessation of drone attacks has made matters worse.

The Americans, on the other side, are frustrated with Pakistan’s perceived failure to act against the Haqqani network and other Taliban-affiliated terror groups based in the tribal areas. Conviction of Dr Shakeel Afridi, who helped CIA hunt Osama bin Laden, has added to the fury in Washington. The government’s clarification that Dr Afridi had been sentenced to 33 years for collaborating with the outlawed Lashkar-i-Islam failed to pacify US leaders.

In the backdrop of a rift with Pakistan, the US has encouraged India to play a bigger role in Afghanistan and has also launched a trilateral mechanism involving Kabul.
Although the agenda is limited to development, unlike the trilateral process with Islamabad that covers peace and security, the new arrangement is set to anger the Pakistani military, which has been sceptical of Indian involvement in Afghanistan.

http://dawn.com/2012...says-gen-wynne/