36 replies to this topic

[Bilal]

Spada Missile Battery Interest from Pakistan Army and Navy

MBDA Italy and Pakistan have started to negotiate the expansion of the surface to air Spada 2000 system for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF).
The PAF ordered Spada 2000 Plus in 2007 as part of a deal worth more than 500 million of dollars. This included deliveries of ten batteries and a significant amount of offset for local industries including the construction of two maintenance and testing facilities in Karachi.
The first battery was delivered in February 2010 and the order is expected to be completed in 2013. Since then, Spada 2000 Plus was test fired at least twice and the system is now in service with the Air Force.
Spada 2000 Missile System

Now the PAF is reported to be exploring the option under the contract for the delivery of three to five additional batteries. In this context the Pakistan Army and Navy have also expressed an interest in purchasing Spada 2000 missile system from MBDA Italy (Italian division of the missile European giant MBDA).
The Pakistan Army would use the Spada system to protect its ground forces from threats such as UAVs, light attack aircraft and is also capable of intercepting air-launched missiles. The Naval interest in the system is emerging due to the need for increased protection of the major naval bases as Karachi and Gwadar. So other interesting opportunities in Pakistan could emerge for MBDA Italy with the potential for up to 15 or 20 new Spada 2000 batteries.
Spada 2000 represents an evolution of the Spada air defence system in use with Italian Air Force since Eighties. The major improvement was the introduction of the new Aspide 2000 missile which featured an increased engagement range and was introduced in the second half of Nineties.
Generally a standard Spada 2000 battery has a detection centre, hosted in a modularised shelter with air surveillance RAC-3D radar, and two firing sections. The firing section has two missile launchers, with six ready-to-fire missiles each, and a tracking and an illumination radar. Spada 2000 is able to detect targets up to 60 km and intercept them up to 25 km with Aspide 2000 missile.


http://www.armedforc...y-and-navy.html

[sobank]

The Spada 2000 is an all-weather, day and night, highly automated, air defence system developed by MBDA (formerly Alenia Marconi Systems). The system has quick reaction time and requires very few operators to man the system. The unit can operate independently or can be integrated with national air defence centres. Spada 2000 is in production and in service with Spanish Air Forces.
The Spada 2000 is an upgraded version of the Spada air defence system providing significant operational and technological improvements, including increased firepower and range, and the capability of coordinating additional anti-air weapons.
In March 2007, Kuwait ordered the upgrade of its Aspide missile systems to Aspide 2000 / Spada 2000 configuration.
"The Spada 2000 is an all-weather, day and night, highly automated, advanced air defence system."
The system provides air defence missile coverage of 2,000km². Target detection and tracking range is up to 60km and the missiles can intercept crossing and approaching targets to a range of 25km. The kill probability is high, even against highly agile crossing targets. The system can engage up to four targets simultaneously with Aspide missiles.
Spada 2000 is modularised and integrated into sheltered units, which provides a high tactical and strategic mobility. The system consists of a detection centre and either two or four firing sections, each section equipped with two missile launchers. Each missile launcher has six ready-to-fire Aspide 2000 missiles.
Detection centre

The detection centre contains mission planning capability allowing fast and precise effective deployment of the weapons. The centre is fitted in a hardened shelter with an RAC-3D radar installed on a hydraulically operated mast on the roof of the shelter. The shelter houses the system's operating centre, including the voice and data communications suite.
Auxiliary equipment in the centre includes a global positioning system, a north finder, air conditioning and power supplies.
RAC-3D radar

Aspide 2000's radar is the Selex Sistemi Integrati (formerly Alenia Marconi Systems) RAC-3D, which gives three-dimensional volumetric air surveillance, detection and tracking. The system has the capacity to track 100 targets simultaneously within a range of 60km.
The radar is capable of operating in hostile electronic warfare environments and is robust against clutter interference and electronic countermeasures. The radar features emission control, jamming location, random frequency agility and coded waveforms. The radar's erectable antenna is up to 13m in height.
Operations centre

The operations centre is manned by two operators for mission planning, system deployment and management during combat operations. The computer displays the air threat data in 3D coordinates.
The system tracks, identifies and prioritises the targets and assigns the firing sections to the priority targets. The targets can also be assigned to other anti-air weapon systems. The system is able to coordinate up to ten small anti-air weapons deployed within a 10km radius.
The operations centre can be connected to a remote upper level air defence command centre.
"Spada 2000 is modularised and integrated into sheltered units, which provides a high tactical and strategic mobility."
Firing section

The firing section consists of the tracking and illumination radar, the control unit and the missile launchers each with six ready-to-fire missiles. The radar carries out target acquisition, tracking and illumination functions for missile guidance.
The control unit is managed by a single operator. The unit controls all the functions from target designation to missile launch and target intercept and operates in manual or automatic mode.
Communications
The communications suite includes the data links between the detection centre and the firing sections and also internal and external secure voice communications.
Missile
The Aspide 2000 missile is an upgraded version of the Aspide surface-to-air missile. The missile is capable of engaging hostile attack aircraft before the aircraft can release airborne standoff weapons. The Aspide 2000 is also capable of intercepting air-launched missiles once launched. The upgraded missile uses an enhanced single-stage rocket motor which provides increased missile speed, higher lateral acceleration and effective range.
The missile is also in service with the Italian Air Force and the Royal Thai Air Force as part of the Oerlikon Contraves Skyguard air defence system.
The high-thrust single-stage solid-propellant rocket motor provides high supersonic speed and high agility to intercept manoeuvring targets. The guidance system is semi-active radar homing.

[sobank]

SPADA 2000
Ground based air defence missile system
• ASPIDE 2000 missile
• Area intercept coverage well
over 20 km radius
• Well proven in all weather conditions
and ECM environments
• Possibility to integrate other
lightweight anti-air weapons
Enhanced all weather air defence system for the protection of extended vital
assets on the territory (air bases, ports, industrial plants, main buildings).
With the use of the powerful ASPIDE 2000 semi-active missiles, the intercept
coverage of the System is well in excess of 20 km in all directions, thus preventing
launching air platforms from releasing their airborne ordnance and PGMs at
shorter range.
The reference system configuration consists of:
• A Detection Centre, for tactical operational control
• 2 Firing Sections (expandable to 4)
• 1 or 2 Missile Launcher(s) per Firing Section
The Detection Centre embodies the Search and Interrogation Radar and the
Operational Centre into a single shelter.
The Firing Section is based upon the Fire Control Centre (including the Tracking
and illumination Radar and the Control Unit) and the Missile Launchers, each
with 6 ready-to-fire missiles.
Both the Detection Centre and the Firing Sections can be deployed around the
defended object, up to 10 km relative range, to maximise the air defence in
accordance with the required protection level.
Easy to relocate by truck, train or by aircraft (C130 fully compatible), the system
can integrate and co-ordinate additional VSHORADS and anti-air artilleries
(up to 10) deployed within a 10 km range from the Detection Centre.
In addition, it can be connected to a higher-level Air Defence Centre.
The System is in service in Spain and Italy.
System architecture
• High degree of modularity and flexibility
Radar coverage
• In excess of 45 km
Missile intercept coverage
• In excess of 20 km
Engagement capability
• Up to 4 simultaneous engagements; more than twelve engagements
per sequence
Co-ordination capability
• Up to 10 small anti-air weapons
Air transportable
• C130 Aircraft
Additional features
• Provision for integration with the National Air Defence centres
• Built in 'simulation programme for operators' training
• Mission planning capability

NAME
• SPADA 2000
MISSILE CHARACTERISTICS
• Weight: 240 kg
• Length: 3.70 m
• Diameter: 0.20 m
• Speed: High supersonic

MBDA Contacts
Sales and Business Development
1 avenue Réaumur
92358 Le Plessis-Robinson cedex - France
Tel. + (0) 33 1 71542149
Fax + (0) 33 1 71540080
salesenquiries@mbda.net
www.mbda-systems.com

[sobank]

cannt find the operational ceiling of the missile. A point which concerns us a lot.

[Caesar]

I believe it has ceiling of 10 Km.

http://www.army-tech...projects/spada/

[Simpleton]

Caesar, on 04 April 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

I believe it has ceiling of 10 Km.

That may be, but what is the ceiling of our leader's beghairaty?

Cynism aside, how does this system hold up to SEAD, let's say when subjected to such modalities by those who operate the UAV's that this is intended to target?

[Bilal]

We need layered AD, spada fits into a certain niche, but, we rerquire strategic SAMs too. To be honest it boils down to economy, we need to start growing at 9-10% or we'll face existential threat.

[Felicius]

Why aren't we going for more Swiss Oerlikon SkyGuards, that we procured not too long ago?

[Caesar]

Simpleton, on 04 April 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

That may be, but what is the ceiling of our leader's beghairaty? Cynism aside, how does this system hold up to SEAD, let's say when subjected to such modalities by those who operate the UAV's that this is intended to target?

Well first of all SEAD missions are always very well planned, Anti-radiation missiles are the most common weapons used along with other EW strategies.

So Early warning systems obviously become very important. Also the in-built features of systems like Spada need to withstand all the EW and Anti-radiations from the enemy. My personnel opinion is that Spada is a good system against India but not against USA.

[Felicius]

10 miles ceiling is 16000 meters. Aircrafts with look-down-shoot-down don't need to compromise their altitude for a SEAD, Spada isn't going to do us any good, nor it is a concern to any adversary of ours. Our leaders can buy any crap, take kick backs, and make it sound to you as if it's for the northern borders to counter US, and all of you will still say WoW.

We need a higher ceiling with a longer detection lead time than 60km, hence we should look towards China. Why are we going for the Spada?

http://www.sinodefen...ile/hongqi9.asp

Quote

The HongQi 9 is reported to have a slant range of 200km up to an altitude of 30km. The missile has a proximity fuse with an effective range of 35m, which goes active when the missile is 5km away from its target.

The HongQi 9 system reportedly uses a large HT-233 3D C-band mono-pulse planar phased array radar, which operates in the 300MHz bandwidth and has a detection range of 120km and tracking range of 90km. The radar can detect targets in azimuth (360 degrees) and elevation (0 to 65 degrees), and is capable of tracking some 100 airborne targets and simultaneously engaging more than 50 targets.

Edited by Shehz, 05 April 2012 - 07:20 AM.

[blueazure]

SPADA is an interim solution at best , having something instead of nothing ( MANPADS ? )  . service celing is around15- 20k feet   , it qualifies as a lo-med system

[Caesar]

Perhaps the strategy is to use Spada for Low to Medium Altitude, and H-9 for high altitude defence. There have been plenty of reports of Pakistan having H-9 system. The only question would be why not use a Chinese solution for medium altitude system? Is this because Chinese medium altitude system isn't good enough?

[Felicius]

For medium altitude, we can procure a low cost system that we did earlier; Swiss SkyGuards.
Spada reeks of kick backs. Whose uncle or dad is funding the Spada project, do we have the money to waste?

[blueazure]

S 300, S 400 , HQ 9 etc are excellent systems and work equally well on all altitudes ( lo , med hi ) . no wonder US / isreal are  scared of iran acquiring a couple of batteries.   but all of it comes at a price tag.  unless PA can get its hands on such a toy, SPADA'll do the job. legacy CROTALE, HQ 2s are way too obsolete. SKYGUARD and GIRAFFE too have limitations . SPADA imo is a good choice given the circumstances

Quote

Spada reeks of kick backs. Whose uncle or dad is funding the Spada project

this cannot be ruled out, a possibility

[Bilal]

Orlikons can't be compared with a 20-25 KM slant range Mid ranged SAM. Spada is a good choice in this category, it was chosen after a competition which included SLAMRAAM and a Chinese system. Orlikons covers short range category, supplimented by MANPADS and other AAA.

[blueazure]

the oerlikon cannot be ignored as such , even though a gun  system, it can ( if im not mistaken ) bring down a UAV flying more than 10,000ft +  through a single burst ..

http://en.wikipedia...._mm_twin_cannon

          

but yes, missile systems offer a much broader engagement envelope

[Caesar]

Skyguard is based on 1950's tech and later upgraded in 1970 and 1980. Giraffe was developed in 1977.

Both these systems are way old and cannot compete in today's SEAD and EW environment.

[Dizasta]

I think if Pakistan Military (Army, Air Force and Navy), do not act fast and establish set goal of acquiring SAMs in the class of S-400s or HQ-9s. Then we have a serious and exposed vulnerability to the enemy.

[Caesar]

SAMs only cover a fraction of the defence systems required. Look China and Pakistan and all other countries should realise one thing ...... If these countries will following Western weapon systems and concepts THEY WILL ALWAYS LOOSE. They need to come up with weapons concepts which are totally different and radical in nature. Only then they can think of winning wars.

[Felicius]

Bilal, on 05 April 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

Orlikons can't be compared with a 20-25 KM slant range Mid ranged SAM. Spada is a good choice in this category, it was chosen after a competition which included SLAMRAAM and a Chinese system. Orlikons covers short range category, supplimented by MANPADS and other AAA.

Not comparing it with SkyGuard, but rather comparing Spada with HQ9. We don't need the Spada, it's a waste of funds.
Someone suggested that perhaps it's for short range purposes, then the SkyGuards will do the same task and were a lot cheaper to procure than Spada (if short range).

[Bilal]

Spada is not a short ranged system, it falls under medium range/altitude category. HQ-9 falls in long range category. AAA and MANPADS cover the short range category, e.g, orlikons, mistrals, anza...

[Felicius]

Bilal, on 07 April 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

Spada is not a short ranged system, it falls under medium range/altitude category. HQ-9 falls in long range category.

and HQ9 can easily cover for what Spada can do. The deficiency will be easily covered by SkyGuards.
Why do we need to procure an expensive medium range SAM batteries?

Edited by Shehz, 07 April 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[Bilal]

True, but such SAMs are used for additional protection of important installations to provide redundancy and overlapping protection, thats the whole concept of layered air defence. It would also make enemy's SEAD missions more complicated.

[Felicius]

Bilal, on 07 April 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

True, but such SAMs are used for additional protection of important installations to provide redundancy and overlapping protection, thats the whole concept of layered air defence. It would also make enemy's SEAD missions more complicated.

True, but only if we had abundance of them and actually used them for layering our air space. Are you sure they will be in parallel with our HQ's?
If they are on another site, far far away from where the HQ's are, then they are working solo, and in that case we don't need them. Pakistan doesn't have that kind of funding available to have multiple systems for the same locations.

Edited by Shehz, 09 April 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[Dizasta]

As true as the funding problem may be, it cannot be ignored that we need to establish a robust Air Defense Network which is empowered by accurate and high kill-probability SAMs to support our Air Force, Army and Navy. Just as necessary and crucial, our nuclear program is for the country's safeguard, so is an effective and robust Air Defense Network with long-range and medium range SAMs.

[Magnus]

Spada Missile Battery Interest from Pakistan Army and Navy
Posted by Pietro Batacchi - Armed Forces International's Italian Correspondent



MBDA Italy and Pakistan have started to negotiate the expansion of the surface to air Spada 2000 system for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF).
The PAF ordered Spada 2000 Plus in 2007 as part of a deal worth more than 500 million of dollars. This included deliveries of ten batteries and a significant amount of offset for local industries including the construction of two maintenance and testing facilities in Karachi.

The first battery was delivered in February 2010 and the order is expected to be completed in 2013. Since then, Spada 2000 Plus was test fired at least twice and the system is now in service with the Air Force.

Spada 2000 Missile System

Now the PAF is reported to be exploring the option under the contract for the delivery of three to five additional batteries. In this context the Pakistan Army and Navy have also expressed an interest in purchasing Spada 2000 missile system from MBDA Italy (Italian division of the missile European giant MBDA).

The Pakistan Army would use the Spada system to protect its ground forces from threats such as UAVs, light attack aircraft and is also capable of intercepting air-launched missiles. The Naval interest in the system is emerging due to the need for increased protection of the major naval bases as Karachi and Gwadar. So other interesting opportunities in Pakistan could emerge for MBDA Italy with the potential for up to 15 or 20 new Spada 2000 batteries.

Spada 2000 represents an evolution of the Spada air defence system in use with Italian Air Force since Eighties. The major improvement was the introduction of the new Aspide 2000 missile which featured an increased engagement range and was introduced in the second half of Nineties.

Generally a standard Spada 2000 battery has a detection centre, hosted in a modularised shelter with air surveillance RAC-3D radar, and two firing sections. The firing section has two missile launchers, with six ready-to-fire missiles each, and a tracking and an illumination radar. Spada 2000 is able to detect targets up to 60 km and intercept them up to 25 km with Aspide 2000 missile.

Image Copyright: Polligono Interforze Salto Di Quirra
Image Caption: ASPIDE 2000 SPADA 2000 Firing

http://www.armedforc...y-and-navy.html

Edited by Magnus, 12 July 2012 - 05:35 PM.

[sobank]

what is the ceiling?

[BelligerentPacifist]

^About 10km according to open literature.

[Bilal]

Already posted:

http://forum.pakista...9

Please merge.

[GreenBeret]

Shehz, on 07 April 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

and HQ9 can easily cover for what Spada can do. The deficiency will be easily covered by SkyGuards.
Why do we need to procure an expensive medium range SAM batteries?

The topographic nature of land in some areas creates gaps for coverage by small range and even long range batteries, thats why medium range SAM's are required.

[Tiberia]

Three words

Brainless, pitiable and sarcastically cheap move by PAF officials.
Why?
Well two reasons.

1. Why don't they modify and further develop FT-2000's capabilities and create a system with passive sensors.
A system which should stay passive while in engagement mode get locked on the incoming noise, heat, radiation, and other multiple sources.
create noise and disrupt the incoming threat's electronics and communication systems.
Should have at least comparable range to modern S-XXX series of Russian air dominators.
This one is just the same Anza shoulder fired shi.t with greater range nothing else. Can’t do any thing against SU30 MKI.
that would be a medium- and long-range surface-to-air missiles: with jamming.
Even such advance SAM systems are very susceptible to advanced techniques designed to confuse or immobile their interceptor missiles and keep them from reaching their targets.
The S- and C-band airborne noise in such system If used properly can create a nightmare.
Suppression of air defense systems can create a prolem for PAF by advance airforces even Indians.
So a bad move all and all.

2.
Get those pain in the ass S-xxx batteries from Russia or other sources if you can't do the above by your own.

[blueazure]

^^ agreed somewhat

[Dizasta]

I personally am also troubled by the move to select Spada-2000s. I mean considering the Chinese FD-2000s are as formidable and lethal as the Russian S-300PMUs. Why go for Western SAMs, when can easily acquire Chinese Air Defence Systems and create layered Air Defense Networks throughout Pakistan?

Even the relations with Russia are warming up, with President Putin due visit Pakistan innthe next couple of months. It would wise to work out a deal with Russians to acquire S-400 Triumph SAMs and augment it with Chinese FD-2000s.

[nuclearpak]

While on a commercial flight at Islamabad airport, i was surprised to see a Spada battery right next to the runway, while taking off from runway 30.

The radars, the missiles, all were present.

[nuclearpak]

Something like this

[blueazure]

nuclearpak, on 26 July 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

While on a commercial flight at Islamabad airport, i was surprised to see a Spada battery right next to the runway, while taking off from runway 30.

The radars, the missiles, all were present.

that's ONE for chaklala base , i wonder where the others are ?

[nuclearpak]

blueazure, on 26 July 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

that's ONE for chaklala base , i wonder where the others are ?

blueazure, on 26 July 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

that's ONE for chaklala base , i wonder where the others are ?

Kahuta, Kamra, sites like these.

One for Masroor AFB maybe?