10 replies to this topic

[blueazure]

We've had some Indian coworkers who transferred to our US office on L1 or H1B visas. Mind you, these are Indians straight out of India. Most Indian coworkers were either former college students who were hired here, or were immigrants who've been here for a while and have adapted to the US culture.

But the ones straight out of India have some annoying habits.

1) Compartmentalize work and private life. Work is work; just because I'm your coworker doesn't mean we're best friends. We're not - I have friends outside of work and I'm closer to them than most friends at work. I also keep my private life separate from work. So stop getting insulted if I am vague about what I did during the weekend or don't tell you more about the woman I am dating.

2) The resources at work are intended to be used for work-related purposes. Sure, there's some abuse by Americans but they know there's a limit. So stop using the corporate printer to print out private material. Not only is it abusing company resources but do you really want to take the chance that some coworker gets to the printer before you do and sees personal information about you?

Sending/receiving personal email to your work email is just asking for trouble. So is downloading all those Indian MP3 songs on the corporate PC.

And I know calling India long distance is expensive but most companies do not allow you to call your family in India from your work phone line because you don't want to pay for the telephone bill. Some will even fire you for that.

3) Don't ask me what my salary is or if I got a performance bonus. We don't do that in the US. Yes, you told me that back in the India office, everyone shares their salaries and such but we don't do that here. Don't get offended if I don't tell you and don't make the argument that I should reveal it because you're my friend. See #1 above.

4) Labor costs more in the US. Therefore, US companies expect more from their employees here than in India. You can't loaf and IM with friends back in India for hours at a time. I surf the web here and there at work but I limit it, mainly because I always have something to do.

If you notice, most Americans, even the Indian ones who've been here a while, are at their desk most of the time. They don't go around and socialize with everyone in the group for 2 hours every day. Yes, I saw that in the Indian office and I know the Indian culture emphasizes socializing in the office much more than in the US. But when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

5) Just because Americans are trusting doesn't mean that they are gullible. Stop expecting that you will be a manager in 2 years. You have not shown yourself to be all that good. You should focus more on doing your job well rather than career ladder climbing. You actually need to show achievement, not just talk a good game and be sycophantic to the managers. You talked a good game but you've been here a year and you still don't have a very good grasp of our SW and our technologies. I've asked you to read the docs about our product and have a better grasp of our products. That's something you have to do on your own time. Don't ask me to teach it to you because I really don't have time. I'm not your private tutor. And I won't do your homework for you. Stop trying to take advantage of me and stop complaining that you expected better treatment from me because we are friends.

Now developers in other groups are complaining about you because of your lack of technical knowledge. Isn't it ironic that the biggest complainers about you are your fellow Indians? Maybe they aren't as trusting as Americans because they are used to the Indian tendency to "shuck and jive" rather than be honest about their accomplishments.

And stop complaining about how Americans are so unfriendly and unhelpful. Maybe that's because they see you as shifty and slick and having an ulterior motive. Americans are very helpful and friendly. But they don't like being taken advantage of. You need to stop acting like anyone not from your Indian ethnicity and caste is someone to take advantage of for your self-interest.

6) Don't tell others at work that you got the company to sponsor you for a green card. Many Americans (including myself) resent that especially since there are Americans who could do your job. What's crazy is that you're a mediocre engineer and I know we could hire someone just as good as you who is an American (and I don't care what ethnicity they are, as long as they are a citizen or a legal resident). Don't take this as some validation that you're some indispensible worker from India because you're not.

You shouldn't have gotten a green card. Some unemployed American programmer should have been hired instead.



http://www.jobschmob...cle.cgi?id=1977

[Jazba-e-Kashmir]

Americans are very helpful and friendly. But they don't like being taken advantage of

but americans support their own us govt in taking advantage from e.g. Iraq or Pakistan for us interests.


Regardless if the article is about indians, it doesn't matter in reality.
A westerner co-worker doesn't admire or care for e.g. a Pakistani co-worker. Who is humble, asking for guidance and eventually asking if the actual practical working procedure is correct. Even if the head of the department, or every other working colleague can see a Pakistani works very humble and hard but yet there is no clap in the shoulder or a recognization for achieving an excellent hard work.

Peace

[blueazure]

^^ this is interesting,, i would like to know hows it like working in the west, the actual corporate environment etc

[Siddharth]

you don't wanna know

[Archangelesk99]

http://www.jobschmob...cle.cgi?id=1977

Ha ha ha ha this is obviously a jealous american who probably got kicked out for Indian/Pakistani workers.  This is typical of them.  When they lose in afghanistan, the taliban aren't fighting fairly.  When they lose in academics, it's because of discrimination against them.  When they lose at their jobs, it's because of plotting by the foreign workers.  IT'S OF COURSE, NEVER THEIR FAULT!

Biggest complainers on the planet = UK/USA

[sobank]

some truth and some exaggeration. Otherwise pretty correct description.

[Jazba-e-Kashmir]

blueazure, on 29 March 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

^^ this is interesting,, i would like to know hows it like working in the west, the actual corporate environment etc

brother, i can say the same as Siddharth, you dont want to really know. it's mentally sickening and disgusting, but if you are mentally strong you'll be able to ignore ignorant remarks and do your work.


i can personally tell you that there where i work there once an  individual who was hired for few months related apprenticeship or something like that.
Anyhow, the other two western colleagues were hearing to the peron's talk, when he had finished one of the other two colleagues , he also would like to be tried out without his wife finding anything about it. Nothing bad would happen if he cheated on his wife, but would stimulate and life up on his sexlife.
The other colleague simply laughed, responsing; with a big grin and saying yeah - but his wife was tried out by him and she was damn fine.
And her husband just laughed, and said he can use her anytime he likes.

Another incident was when i was standing with another colleague along with the heads of the department. One of the heads said to the working colleague i was with, "well, you still chase chicks  huh - dont do that you'll be disappointing xxxxxxxxxxxx's daughter". (referring to another head of the department!) The response was, simply a big laugh. The father said "yeah, i have to introduce you to my daughter, so i can pair up both so you both can f''''k each other like rabbits"!

And I have seen several times the male colleagues spanking/slapping the female colleagues' behind!
They have absolutely no shame, no manner, no politeness and no respect to be honest!

when there was the attack in France, on the three ex-french soldiers and attack on the Jewish school; the western colleagues laughed and mocked while saying "it was a Muslim anyway, crazy and an idiot" The other replied "maybe he saw Allah".

I instanly replied, it has nothing to do with Allah. It was person's own bad actions and intentions that lead into the attacks. I am a Muslim and I haven't seen Allah, but Believe in Him and the Unseen World He Has Created.
That is utterly ignorance and biased - undercover racist/discriminatin remarks - you are coming with - now isn't it. And i didn't stop there, i quickly added, if we're going to discriminate openly then I can begin with what happend to the Red Indians and the Black Slaves who were mocked, discrimiated and killed by some-third-party-who-came-from-outer-space-and-were-white and laugh at their low-level stupidity and IQ intelligence.

they became absolutely silent mum!

Sometimes i dont feel to argue, so i just work, work and work - and still work even if they provocate me. And the heads of the department, know how i work and have said several times the other western colleagues to do their work.
But instead they point out at me and say it's my fault they can't do their job at all. I simply smile, and counter-argue while looking at the heads of the department, every person is responsible for his own job/work. They should see their own mistakes rather than being small kids constantly bragging about everything instead of their incompetence.
The heads simply laughed and gave me a high-five because i didn't care about them and wont give a damn about the complaining idiots due to i have done my job and can be proud of what i've achieved and don't have any bad consciousness at all for doing some thing bad in the first place. And obviously, the heads can see and jugde by themselves the other idiots' incompetences compared to the competence that is only on their CVs.
LOL

At the end, i just said in a mockingly way, it there are any problems get the others sacked and i'll get some new workers with a Pakistani background that can work with much more higher and effective manner that would give advantage for the company in the long run, ;-)

Now they know, how i know their mindset, their mocking and discrimination, and how well i also can discriminate and be double-standarded because that is how their mindsets are.
Be steady and show pride in your body language, they have no f''''''''g courage to even say anything to you, they have no inner peace and inner mental stability. Even if i would get sacked, i would drag them into court, roll my sleeves up and whip them like they lashed the Black Slaves. Get the story into the media, humliate the company and give them a bad PR and the best thing would be, to get a huge sum of compensation. muhahaha :-)


the western colleagues give me more respect now, and want to share even their breakfast with me when they used to be isolated for themselves in the working group.
But i always decline and say, i don't sell my self, my pride and selfrespect, and i don't have any trust in them due to their incompetence, mocking and back-stabbing. If they can't bare with my statement and mindset, then live with it - i am not going change regardless what. :-)

That is how to tackle a western company if things go really bad, and I can only urge and encourage other Muslims and Pakistanis - be steady and show a strong bodylanguage and character.
Western company profiles have no inner peace at all and can't do anything to.






The worst thing, there is this socalled liberal/modern Arab girl working there as well. Once a western colleague said to her, that he can afford the one of her breast till he gets some more money to give them to her for a night when the financially funding to get laid with her is clear.
Her facial expression was shyness mixed with being humiliated and don't-know-how-to-relate-to-matter-expression.

I was looking at her with such serious and disappointing eyes, but giving her the same eyes; that is what happens when you dont reply back instantly and create respect for yourself and your own background/kind!
Funny thing, she wanted my support when she said she didn't know what to do. I answered to talk with the bosses, contact your local union office and demand respect.
And besides, i would be labelled as backward, primitive and oldfashioned Muslim and Pakistani very easily by people with the same mindset of hers just because it is not allowed in our religion and culture to look and talk like that to a woman! i told her that as well.

So i said, if she's chosen the western lifestyle, then deal with it as she is living with it anyways, right. Because that is part of the western co-operate/company working environment, to use and exploit female colleagues at any cost just to get laid with them.
Lets make duaa that Allah Guides her confused mind. Ameen.

And i have more respect in the western colleagues eyes' than her, because i have shown my hard work and steadiness without begging on my knees to get accepted and giving Muslims and Pakistanis a good name so they can be adapted and hired in the company much quicker without any hesitation.
I know i won't get any reward or credit from anyone, but I hope Allah Sees His Mercy that it would be easy for future Muslim and Pakistani generations to have a strong repuation based upon my humble and hard work. Inshallah.
I can only urge everyone to do the same way.


Anyways, the pattern for the western world's company environment - regardless if it's europe or usa - can be spotted easily.

E.g. secretaries using their beauties with a sexual approach to have a sexual affair with their bosses to get a higher working position or getting a related person hired in the company or the young woman sitting in the reception getting gazed eyes full of passionate sexually perverted mindsets - eventually getting perverted remarkds or active sexual one-night stands especially during Christmas Dinners or any other occasion which the company holds a party....
The agenda is not securing the reputation for the company in the future, but sex, sexyness and sexuality is the agenda and gets a high priority at any price if the chance is there!

western/nato/us soldiers and troops don't spare Iraqi and Afghani women who get sexually abused, misused and raped at any cost, then how isn't it possible for western men do it to their own western female fellows in their own western socities.

They are just like the Romans, e.g. killing their own soldiers to get married or rape their widowed-wives - it's happend before in history, just read old history textures and books. Sickening and disgusting.


Anyways the worst part is if you keep humble and ignore the remarks, then the personal mocking would be focused on you instead. Just because you hold your head down, work hard and actually better than others, it's pure jealousy.
But if you ask politely, you can't relate with such ignorant remarks, and the mocking of such or such, you'll win the argument in a civilized manner and no one would even dare say anything to you because next time someone barks up, you'll be able to tackle idiots, but with a much rude manner.

That is how you create space and respect in a western working environment, just like politics, show your eyes, and look deeply into the eyes of the western politicians; they would stick their tails between their legs because they are so coward that they would go for the weak ones, never the mentally strong and courageous.


Blueazure; brother i am not trying generlize the western companies' environment etc, but there is a common pattern and mindset. Majority of overseas Pakistanis can probably nodd to my post or experiences and agree upon, or even disagree.

Peace :-)
Peace :-)

[blueazure]

very interesting, thanks for the long post...

[Jazba-e-Kashmir]

your welcome bro

yet i must say, underline and remember that there are good and bad people in every country and society

Peace :-)

[Caesar]

I am sorry but this is just load of BS !! You people just disgust me with your lies and everthing.

Unlike the 3rd world countries like Pakistan and India where "females" are considered another form of "animal species" The West in general and Australia in particular have harsh sexual harrassment and discrimination laws and one can be sacked in an instant if doing idiotic things such as talking about sex openly in an office environment or trying to look at or touch the butt of a female employee. it is unlawful to discriminate on the basis of sex, religion or race.

Such Western laws are the most fairest and the most respectful and most just anywhere in the world. There is not a single non-western country on this planet who can even come close to such laws and respect for human beings.

People from these backward countries can ONLY WISH IN THEIR DREAMS they had such laws and such office environments to work.

So please give me a freaking break.

[Jazba-e-Kashmir]

caesar;

it might be a load of bs for you, but i have seen and witnessed how westerners co-workers get along with each other.

even if the laws are harsh in the west, it doesn't mean people actually live up to them. They are no perfect societies afterall.
if you believe the western countries have the perfect way of perceiving issues and holding fair harsh rules for everyone, then it is true or might be true, but some working places there is no respect for the rules and regulations regarding females, they dont give a damn.

Not only for females, but Easteuropeans are only given nearly 1 Euros or 1 UK pound sterling in hour wages in european countries, when they deserve full paid wages pr. working hours - like everyone else. They dont have the rights like everyone else because small company owners can use and exploit their skills for their own capital advantage. Many labour unions have made huge campaigning about this problem in the media and among their own union-members.
Even if there are harsh rules and regulations, but no one gives a damn and thinks about their own company/pockets!

On the issue on respect for sexes, race and religion in the western countries, well i personally know 2 individuals, who have a Muslim
and a Pakistani background.

The first one, who is a male, holds a Ph.D: degree in engineering, came from Pakistan studied here in Denmark.
He was called into an interview, and got great remarks for his excellence, capabilities and competence by the high positioned HR-worker. The thing was he had a beard, with the size of nearly as 5 fingers from the chin.
But he was called up few days later by the HR-worker and said he was hired ONLY IF he trimmed his beard a bit down!
The funny thing is female workers dont get asked not to get into shorter skirts, but are urged to get shorter ones!

And if anyone is interested to know which company that rejected the Pakistani born Ph.D: holder who gained his high education in Denmark, then the company was Maersk; a link to their homepage:
http://www.maersk.co...es/default.aspx

Maersk is a big international shipping company, and also ships gas and oil. Besides that, the company also sells oil and gas.

The second individual is a female, who was called for an interview at a internationally well-known it-company.
She was told at the interview by the HR-worker, that she had great capabilities, competence and a excellent educational background. But she was told, in her face, that she would get the job ONLY IF she took off her headscarf/hijaab!!

Now sikhs, jews, buddists or any other individual who wears religious head-related items wont be told to take off their religious wearing to the interview.

And if anyone is interested to know which it-company that rejected the Muslim female, with a Pakistani background, then company was HP(Hewlet Packard). I believe there is no need for any web-link to the company since it is known across the globe.

I would understand if the two individuals were criminals and a threat such as terrorist or something like that, but when they were nothing but individuals looking for a job, then truely their races and background became a hinder in the western societies that obviously makes sure equal rights are there for sexes, races and background etc.
There are many other examples which don't get into the media and can't be said much about, even if anti-discrimination groups have filed cases, nothing happens.

Another friend of mine, has a friend of Turkish origin, born in Denmark as well. He was looking for a job as a car-mechanic and had great skills and big grades on his diploma.
He sent his application and was responded with an e-mail that he got rejected. Now just for fun, he changed his name into some westerners, changed the adress to his neighbour's instead and sent his application. He received a phonecall to come for an interview, he turned up and said to the interviewer he was ready to be interviewed.
The interviewer was humiliated and got embarrased infront of his own colleagues and customers who were going to buy a car that day.

Of course, the Turkish fellow didn't get a job, but proved his worth and got a big punch-line to the other side, and infront of car-customers who were in shock that a multi-national car company can be such narrowminded, and won their attention as well. But nothing is going to change because the same idiot is still hired at the car-showroom/store.

Now, the car-company that discriminated him and wouldn't hire him was Toyota, yes Toyota!
Even if he filed a case against the company, nothing would change because discrimination woull still exist in the society.

It doesn't really matter how harsh laws and regulations are; when people are living in an anarchy, don't care and laugh mockingly at the laws because no one gives a damn.


And it hasn't anything to do with 3rd world countries, since the question and issue was related how working environments were in the west instead of derailing the question Blueazure asked, and getting oranges mixed apples. So to speak, there wasn't any comparison between east and west at all.
And if there are any Eastern countries that have good laws and regulations, then Malaysia can be recognized for following up the global market, various rules and regulations as well, but hasn't got a fully global recognizition among the western countries and media, despite the fact the country performes excellent!! So dont know how backwarded Malaysia is, but it is really progessive and makes a contribution for German carmakers, such as Audi, SEAT, VW and Skoda.


secondly, i have stated bad and good people exist in every country and society, and the pattern might be the same in the western countries, but some would agree or disagree.
So there is no point to jump from the chair like if anything was onesided, and going offtopic based upon emotional statements like people in 3rd world countries do, since we are from the civilized western countries and socities, now aren't we.
Or should we just realize we are humans afterall - regardless where we are from and commit mistakes, so we can be apologetic for rightly doing so. And displace the mistake like if never happend.

And being critical towards western societies isn't a sin when western socities are always criticizing internally for remaining progressive themselves and now it isn't if they are the only societies to have ever lived, gained succes or going to fail in the human history of mankind like it has happend before.



Peace