23 replies to this topic

[KudosBot]

"It is time to create a military bloc of Muslim countries and there is a relevant potential", deputy chairman of the Pakistani Senate Mir Jan Jamali told media in Baku today.
He said that the West adheres to the double standards in dealing with global processes and makes no effort to solve the conflicts in Nagorno-Karabakh, Bosnia and Kashmir. UN decisions on these conflicts have not been fulfilled, he added.

"There are many strong countries among Muslim ones from the military and political points of view," he said. "Uniting these countries into a bloc would be useful in solving our problems."

http://en.trend.az/n...cs/1998214.html

[KudosBot]

Pakistan ready to provide military support to Azerbaijan


Pakistan is ready to provide the necessary military support to Azerbaijan, deputy chairman of the Pakistani Senate Mir Jan Jamali said at a press-conference at the Azerbaijani parliament on Wednesday.

"Pakistan is a nuclear power. It produces military aircraft, tanks and warships. If money is invested, cooperation can be extended," Mr Jamali added.

He said the chief of General Staff of the Armed Forces of Pakistan is in Baku and will hold a number of meetings.

"Pakistan has excellent relations with Turkey in military cooperation. These relations can also be established with Azerbaijan," Mr Jamali said.

http://en.trend.az/n...cs/1998179.html

[Dizasta]

Both Turkey and Azerbaijan have infectious and integrated ties with Israel. Turkish Military has very close ties to Israel, who provided the vital upgrades to front-line Turkish Air Force Jets, F-5 Tigers, as well as F-4 Phantoms and also upgraded Turkish Army Tank, M60A1s. Azerbaijan signed a $1.6 billion Military Deal with Israel this year, with IAI providing Azerbaijan's military with UAVs and SAMs. Also, Israeli defense contractor, Aeronautics Defense Systems Ltd began building a factory in Baku, in 2009. Hence any ties with Turkey and Azerbaijan, should be very closely monitored.

If Pakistan's utterly incompetent and dumb leadership can identify good advice, then my suggestion to Pakistan Military is to build it's military ties with China and Russia. Practically implement and enforce stringent laws within Pakistan, which would benefit and protect trade with China and Russia. Enhance military and economic trade/ties with countries in South America (Argentina and Venezuela), in the Central Asia (Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan),in Africa (Nigeria, Sudan and Algeria) and South East Asia (Indonesia).

Finally, any sort of Muslim Military Bloc formation, would entirely depend on Pakistan's internal security, economic stability and political base that is purged of corruption and traitors. Ethnic divide and mentality has to be destroyed from its core in Pakistan, in order to allow greater unity among Pakistanis. Standardization, Commonality and Unity needs to be streamlined in the Power Base of Pakistan ..... i.e Pakistan Military, Judiciary and Business-base. Also, Law Enforcement needs major purge of corruption and accountability, from the top, down.

It is one thing, to make calls for an Islamic Military Bloc and is totally another, to actually implement something such lines.

[Simpleton]

Whether Turkey and Azerbijan have mil ties with Israel doesn't matter, when in fact US and Israeli world policies are the same; we serve US interests directly, so in the end it amounts to the  same.

All this will do is instead of running around lobbying future military escapades individually or arm twisting on an individual basis, now if this Muslim mil bloc comes into existence all it will amount to is a more efficient and expedient way to capitulate to US and Israeli plans/demands.

As an analogy, instead of many balls to be twisted, they'll just have one set to twist.  Put another way all the w.hores at the helm of Muslim affairs instead of being spread all over town and hard to track down, will be available in  what amounts to a w.hore house--very convienient for Uncle Sam.

[Web Master]

What do you think about OIC backed force. Same setup as NATO? To make it more effective how about add China to this equation to counter balance NATO. Let me know what you think?

Thanks

Edited by Web Master, 07 March 2012 - 08:56 AM.

[Simpleton]

Web Master, on 07 March 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

What do you think about OIC backed force. Same setup as NATO? To make it more effective how about add China to this equation to counter balance NATO. Let me know what you think?

Thanks

On paper, rather conceptually speaking, it is very tempting; however practically speaking the last time I recall the OIC even bothered mustering enough courage to stand up to any form of aggression was in the case of the Bosnian genocide, and we know how quickly that went south when Uncle Sam came calling.

Sure we could add China to give some "backbone" to the organization, but wouldn't it be simply more efficent and effective to frame it along what Dizasta said; wherby the counter Nato force would be more analagous to a warsaw pact like force with China (with or without Russia) forming the core with the "OIC" or "Muslim" nations tying up their mutual economies, and militaries slowly?  However, I don't know if China would be interested in this, maybe a few decades down the line I see a more natural tendency of China and India  forming a coalition block to counter Nato or US, or even a tri-lat setup with Russia, China and India, with all the "OIC" or "Muslim" vassal states feeling vulnarable and weak running around selling their services to the highest bidder, in other words the same setup with perhaps different masters.

[Dizasta]

Web Master, on 07 March 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

What do you think about OIC backed force. Same setup as NATO? To make it more effective how about add China to this equation to counter balance NATO. Let me know what you think?

Thanks

Webby, the OIC is nothing more than a paper organization. Given the level of divisions within the Islamic World, this concept will not transpire. There is no cohesion, understanding or people-to-people/community-to-community relation building in the Islamic World. If the Muslims of the World can come together as people and establish relationships which kick-out the traitor governments of their respective countries, then I would say that there is some semblance of unity which would emerge in the Islamic World.

Unless the Muslims educate themselves in the pivotal aspect of unity, understanding and Ummah Building methods. We, sadly, do not stand a chance, especially when there are idiotic crusades waged by lunatic leaders of sects like Wahabis, Salafis, Shi'ites and etc.

The more Muslims purge their societies of Jihalah the brews within them, the better it would be for the unity of the Islamic World. And no amount of so-called OIC-Military Service, would deter the 'war-mongering', mindless beasts that are the Zionist-Western powers. As strength of the Ummah comes from within and when the Muslims find strength of Imaan within them, that is the day these mindless Zionist-Western powers, will run for cover.

[waz]

Bar Turkey, there isn't any "Muslim military" to write home about.

[ISI2003]

militaries in muslims countries are usually for internal stability, not really for fighting wars
this is why arab nations lose wars and our own military is to busy in running the country

militarieis can do there job once the civilians learn how to do their own damn jobs first (for those that want a "unified bloc"; learn to run a nation first, this is why the EU works and Therefore NATO works)

[tank131]

Actually, KSA has a potent military as does the UAE.

[Caesar]

What a joke ! My advise to the thugs in military and government - how about you concentrate on the economy, create jobs for Pak youths, create new industries like renewable energies and stop keeping 180 million people hostages you SOBs!

[lamdacore]

ISI2003, on 07 March 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

militaries in muslims countries are usually for internal stability, not really for fighting wars
this is why arab nations lose wars and our own military is to busy in running the country

militarieis can do there job once the civilians learn how to do their own damn jobs first (for those that want a "unified bloc"; learn to run a nation first, this is why the EU works and Therefore NATO works)

I am going to have to agree on this point. Most of the Muslim countries simply have an army for internal security and what is interesting is that a lot of them rely on conscription or the soldiers simply join it for a source of income. Kingdoms and sultanates are more afraid from internal affairs than foreign affairs. Hence, we have cowardly Muslim nations that rely on hiring NATO or US to fight their dirty wars against other countries.

We need a radical change in almost all countries. We are badly plagued by corrupt and imcompentent rulers and above all else we have an impotent Muslim Ummah. We havent invested our money and pooled our resources the way a nation does to outclass its foes.

tank131, on 08 March 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

Actually, KSA has a potent military as does the UAE.

Indeed KSA and UAE have potent militaries but I wonder as to what is the state of their military personnel. Its good to buy big guns and bombs but it is a whole lot different matter as to how, when, and where to use them.

Caesar, on 09 March 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

What a joke ! My advise to the thugs in military and government - how about you concentrate on the economy, create jobs for Pak youths, create new industries like renewable energies and stop keeping 180 million people hostages you SOBs!

We need to concentrate in all areas and in all places and most likely at the same time. The only way forward, is to have a thorough roadmap and a clear indication as to the role of the nation in the roadmap.


On a side note, OIC is a dead organization. The only reason it probably exists is so that the Muslims nations can show to the world that they have balls albeit being the size of peanuts. As far as I remember, the last OIC meeting erupted in some serious confrontation among the Arab leaders such that it became a source of humor for the rest of the world. Such are the people leading such organizations. What do you expect from them?

[platinum786]

It's got to start at some point, might as well be now. What we need even more, is our own version of the EU, a muslim wide free trade zone.

[waz]

Caesar, on 09 March 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

What a joke ! My advise to the thugs in military and government - how about you concentrate on the economy, create jobs for Pak youths, create new industries like renewable energies and stop keeping 180 million people hostages you SOBs!

This.

[ISI2003]

platinum786, on 09 March 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

It's got to start at some point, might as well be now. What we need even more, is our own version of the EU, a muslim wide free trade zone.

but the eu free trade zone existed once the nations settled their differences
once the differences are either settled or an agreement is made upon a truce on some issues (sunni/shia ... kingdom/theocratic/secular); then progres can be made

otherwise nothing can really be done until they all have the same type of government (as in europe) and it doesn't really matter where you live, you have the ability to roam at will (then you can have free trade); this is why it works in europe, free movement / free from political issues, free trade

[waz]

So called "Muslim nations" have too many clashes of interests for this to ever work. Also we should pursue interests based upon our national interests. Here is a quick case study. How many Muslim states have highlighted the ongoing human rights abuses in Kashmir? Answers on a postcard please. I think that should end this thread as well.

[haroons222]

First of all, you have to define the scope of such an organization.

Are we making this to fight of Non-muslims?Well for now thats a dream because frankly we dont have the might. Dizasta's idea is better, have a bloc and TEAM UP with the big boys..it will be mutually beneficial.HOWEVER, as long as,the bedouin tribe of Saud rules KSA, you can kiss that idea goodbye. KSA and uncle sam have a strong bond.

NOW, the option i do like is dealing with minor local issues, and conflicts within the muslim countries. Somalia,Sudan, etc...WE CAN DO ALOT in this area.
Also, I would rather have a muslim military force/peace keeping force that would get involved in places like Syria/Yemen than OUTSIDERS who are just using this and CLEARLY have other motives. Again, Syrian issue would probably fail because of Iran-KSA feud.
IN MY OPINION,the biggest hurdle to Muslim worlds progress and unity is
A. Iran-KSA feud.
B. KSA/Gulf countries West slavery.

I only imagine how awesome it would be if socialists swept the western world(possible in france) but it aint happening in the U.S., there is no more LEFT in the U.S.,theres only center and right!

[Munir]

The issue is not islamic military group but something that can stop imperialism of western nations. Itis that simple, since russia desolved and china needs time there is an era of kill and destroy at will and getting away with it by just using democarcy title. There is frankly zero democracy cause we all know the real intentions of getting irac, afghanistan and probably iran. If you get the best oil fields in the world you can go on running the most corrupt and defaulted economy in the world...

[tallyho]

    Personally I doubt if any military alliance with the Muslim countries will ever be of any use both to Pakistn or the Muslims. This is specially true about the Arabs. The Arabs would rather cash in on the Pakistani feelings towards Arabs----the land of Islam, than annoy US of A by going for any Miliitalry pact. If you think we are in the US lap, you don't know the Arabs. I feel a better co-operaton and/or military alliance with Turkey, Azarbijan, Russia and China is a more practical and useful deal. Turkey's relations with Iraell should never even be considered a hinderance in this alliance. I also don't see why on earth we are so fired p about Israel. Most Arabs have some contact with Israel. What has Israel ever done any harm to us. Yes they seem to be conspiring to break Pakistan but only because we have declared open war agianst them. We are the only country in the world which has actually shot down Israeli aircraft in two wars which, by the way, were NOT our wars. Do you, therefore blame them for trying to hurt us. If we had recognised Israel earlier, we would be a much safer country and still maintained good relations with the Arabs. Look at India---they are good firiends of Israel and yet there are more Indians in the Gulf states than Pakistanis. Arabs have more investment in India that they ever did in Pakstan. Don't we have a living example of India, our sworn enemy. We have not only ecognised them but are all out to grant them MFN staus and or "intellectuals" are trying very hard to embracce them. Have we forgotten that India broke our country and are still at it. Compare this with Israel----what is your opinon????????

[ISI2003]

Pakistan should think of its self as a "country" made up of many "nations" (as in nationalities/ethnicity), and to fully integrate the idea that these nations are Pakistani nations

if Pakistan can perfect a sense of unity through good governance in this way, it can pass on its lesson's learned to other nations, and then once the nations that have adopted these principles are reformed and updated, they can then join an economic-trading pact

once that has developed, and people feel comfortable and free in movement, an industrial alliance can be forged, and once that is solid, a military alliance can be formed

once all these steps have been done, a political unity is possible

because ultimately the smaller "nations" have to learn to be governed by principles for a large multi-country system to work
-----------------
the entire arab world's population is about 360 million (that is among 22 countires)

Pakistan alone is 180 million people, or basically a country with the population of half the arab worlds' equivalent

Pakistan has enough on its shoulders to be asking for more

the government needs to learn to run its own house FIRST

[rungroot]

under the 3is??? Aho!!!

FYI, 3is = zardarI, gilanI and kiyanI!!!

[Asian Union]

Hopefully this big wish ever come true in our life times !!!

[butterfly]

History tells us that unless we forget our racial issues such as Arabs are better than tos eof the Indian subcontinent and Saudis are better than Egyptians etc then alliances are only paper alliances. Arabs during the 71 war with Isreal double crossed one another. If they can't trust each during the heat of battle how will we fair with them.

Only way forward if if we have mixed units from various countries. So no only Arab or only turkish units. But then there will be the language issue?

[Alp Arsalan Ghazi]

LOL and what "military" do these countries have?