So there you go... anything you have to add.. go a head say so in your post, but thanks to INvision's incompetence, you can't edit the polls. I avoided Pakistani and Indian tanks because it would be just a matter of patriotic blunder with Indians voting Arjun or w/e the heck they made and Pakistanis voting AK or etc..
0
Hue Jazz Tank Poll
Started by
Humza K
, Mar 27 2003 07:02 PM
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This topic is locked
10 replies to this topic
#1
Humza K
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BRIGADIER
Posted 27 March 2003 - 07:02 PM
Khudae Pa Aman.
"Pakistan is one of the many third-world countries that are ruled by America, indirectly through IMF"
- Imran Khan, on Canadian Broadcast Co
"Pakistan is one of the many third-world countries that are ruled by America, indirectly through IMF"
- Imran Khan, on Canadian Broadcast Co
#2
3BSD
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GENERAL
Posted 27 March 2003 - 10:06 PM
My vote is with the latest versions of the Leopard 2.
-3BSD
-3BSD
The sound of silence is deafening.
#3
M21sniper
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GENERAL
Posted 27 March 2003 - 10:12 PM
I'm not sure if the latest Leopard IIA6 is the best or the US M-1A2SEP, but they are very close- each has it's own advantadges.
Being American i guess i have to go M-1A2SEP
Being American i guess i have to go M-1A2SEP
"US Snipers-providing surgical strikes since 1776"
#4
Humza K
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BRIGADIER
Posted 28 March 2003 - 03:22 PM
My vote was for Leclerc, it is sweeeeet.
Khudae Pa Aman.
"Pakistan is one of the many third-world countries that are ruled by America, indirectly through IMF"
- Imran Khan, on Canadian Broadcast Co
"Pakistan is one of the many third-world countries that are ruled by America, indirectly through IMF"
- Imran Khan, on Canadian Broadcast Co
#5
tank131
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GENERAL
Posted 29 March 2003 - 01:03 AM
I didnt notice the M1 and varients, so I voted for Leopard. But I would like to switch my vote to the Abrams. And I still think that AK should be there as it has alot of firepower, just like these tanks, has decent armor, highest power to weight ratio, has the high tech gadgets that these tanks have (shoot on the move, thermal night vision, hunter-killer capabilities, auto-load...etc), and it is alot lighter, so it can be used in majority of theatres of combat, something the others cant do as they would get stuck in Rajastan desert and would overheat because of energy bled to a/c.
To those who dont thing they would get stuck in Rajastan desert, our Abrams are even getting stuck in the deserts of Iraq, and the media readily shows or states this, and if the limestone bed there doesn't provide the firmness for the heavy tanks, imagine sub-continent deserts, they would sink in the sand like a rock sinks in water... they would be sitting ducks for AK or any light/ yet high firepower tank.
To those who dont thing they would get stuck in Rajastan desert, our Abrams are even getting stuck in the deserts of Iraq, and the media readily shows or states this, and if the limestone bed there doesn't provide the firmness for the heavy tanks, imagine sub-continent deserts, they would sink in the sand like a rock sinks in water... they would be sitting ducks for AK or any light/ yet high firepower tank.
#6
M21sniper
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GENERAL
Posted 29 March 2003 - 02:02 AM
M-1's are really good in the desert, i have seen them in such conditions myself.
They do get stuck though, so do vehicles a fraction of their weight. Even HUMVEES.
They do get stuck though, so do vehicles a fraction of their weight. Even HUMVEES.
"US Snipers-providing surgical strikes since 1776"
#7
Iranian Warrior
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BRIGADIER
Posted 29 March 2003 - 05:44 AM
Al-Fahad is good in the desert.
I wont vote, I rate the Leopard, Le clerk and the Russian Black Eagle equally.
I wont vote, I rate the Leopard, Le clerk and the Russian Black Eagle equally.
#8
Humza K
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BRIGADIER
Posted 29 March 2003 - 11:38 PM
LECLERC MAIN BATTLE TANK, FRANCE
The Leclerc Main Battle Tank built by Giat Industries is operational with the French Army and the Armed Forces of Abu Dhabi of the United Arab Emirates. The Leclerc was first operational with the French Army in 1992 and with UAE in 1995. Leclerc Mk 2 tanks with improved software and engine control system entered production in 1998. The French Army has over 200 Leclerc MBTs in service and in September 2001 ordered the final tranche of 52, concluding a total order of 406 (plus 20 armoured recovery vehicles). Deliveries are expected to be completed by 2005. 390 tanks and 46 armoured recovery vehicles have been ordered by UAE. The last part of this order, for 52 tanks, is scheduled for delivery between the end of 2003 and 2005.
BATTLE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
The Leclerc is fitted with the FINDERS (Fast Information, Navigation, Decision and Reporting System) battlefield management system, developed by Giat. FINDERS includes a colour map display which shows the positions of the host tank, allied and hostile forces and designated targets and can be used for route and mission planning.
The French Army has selected Giat to equip its Leclerc main battle tanks with a Terminal Information System (TIS) called Icone (Ergonomic Communications and Navigation Interface). The initial phase of the contract covers the equipment of more than 100 Leclerc tanks, with entry into service to start in 2003. The TIS has been developed together with EADS Defense Electronics Systems. It permits the exchange of digitised data including tactical situation and the graphic orders displayed on a background map, between the vehicle and higher level command.
ARMAMENT
The 120 mm 52 calibre smoothbore gun is fitted with a thermal sleeve and muzzle reference system. Fumes are exhausted with a compressed air unit. The gun, which fires APFSD (Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot) and HEAT (High Explosive Anti Tank) rounds, has a firing rate of 12 rounds/minute. The aiming system is entirely electrical for improved acceleration.
The tank has an automatic loading system, which allows cross-country fire-on-the-move against mobile targets. 22 rounds of ready-to-use ammunition are carried. The tank is also armed with a 12.7 mm machine gun co-axial with the main gun and a roof-mounted 7.62 mm anti-aircraft gun.
FIRE CONTROL AND OBSERVATION
The digital fire control system allows the gunner or commander to select six different targets to be engaged in just over 30 seconds. The system's digital computer allows realtime treatment of data from the tank's sensors and sights.
The commander has eight periscopes and an HL-70 stabilised panoramic sight from SFIM Industries, now part of SAGEM. HL-70 includes laser rangefinder, day channel, and second generation image intensifier. Recognition range is 4 km and identification range is 2.5 km. The commander has a display showing the gunner's thermal sight.
The gunner's station is equipped with gunner's main sight, three periscopes and a visual display unit. The gunner's stabilised sight is SAVAN 20 from SAGEM, which contains a three field of view thermal imager.
The driver's has three periscopes, the centre periscope being the OB-60 driver's sight developed by Thales Optrosys (formerly Thomson-CSF), which has day and night channels.
SELF-PROTECTION
Leclerc is fitted with Galix combat vehicle protection system, developed by GIAT and Lacroix Tous Artifices. Nine launch tubes for the 80mm grenades are fitted on either side of the turret roof. The Galix system can launch smoke or anti-personnel grenades or infrared decoys.
Giat has developed the KBCM defensive aids suite which can befitted to the Leclerc. KBCM includes laser warner, missile warner, infrared jammer and the Galix system and can be integrated with the Finders battle management system. The French Army has evaluated the system.
PROPULSION
The Leclerc is equipped with an SACM V8X-1500 Hyperbar diesel engine providing 1,500 hp at 2,500 rpm. An electronic engine management system is supplied by SAGEM. The SESM ESM 500 automatic transmission has a hydrostatic transmission unit and five forward and two reverse gears. The engine is fitted with a Suralmo-Hyperbar high pressure gas turbine. The engine provides a road speed over 70 km/hour and cross country speed up to 50 km/hour.
The tank also has a Turbomeca TM-307B gas turbine auxiliary power unit. The hydropneumatic suspension system is from Societe d'Applications des Machines Motrices (SAMM).
UAE TROPICALISED LECLERC MAIN BATTLE TANK
The tropicalised Leclerc is optimised for tropical and desert conditions to meet the requirement of the UAE. A new powerpack and diesel auxiliary power unit has been installed and the hull is extended at the back to accommodate the powerpack and larger fuel tanks. The Euro Powerpack has the MTU 883 V-12 diesel engine providing 1,500 hp, coupled with Renk HSWL295 TM automatic transmission. For this and export versions of the tank, Giat has developed the Leclerc Battle Management Equipment (LBME), a derivative of FINDERS. The HL-70 commander's sight has been replaced by the HL-80, also from SFIM.
LECLERC NEW GENERATION RECOVERY VEHICLE
The Leclerc New Generation Recovery Vehicle (NGRV) has a longer hull with seven pairs of wheels. An hydraulically operated blade at the front of the vehicle is used to clear a path through battlefield obstacles. The vehicle is equipped with an hydraulic crane rated to lift 30,000 kg loads and a winch with 180 m cable rated at 35,000 kg. A secondary winch is rated at 1,500 kg. The crane and winch systems are supplied by Rheinmetall Landsystemes GmbH.
The Leclerc Main Battle Tank built by Giat Industries is operational with the French Army and the Armed Forces of Abu Dhabi of the United Arab Emirates. The Leclerc was first operational with the French Army in 1992 and with UAE in 1995. Leclerc Mk 2 tanks with improved software and engine control system entered production in 1998. The French Army has over 200 Leclerc MBTs in service and in September 2001 ordered the final tranche of 52, concluding a total order of 406 (plus 20 armoured recovery vehicles). Deliveries are expected to be completed by 2005. 390 tanks and 46 armoured recovery vehicles have been ordered by UAE. The last part of this order, for 52 tanks, is scheduled for delivery between the end of 2003 and 2005.
BATTLE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
The Leclerc is fitted with the FINDERS (Fast Information, Navigation, Decision and Reporting System) battlefield management system, developed by Giat. FINDERS includes a colour map display which shows the positions of the host tank, allied and hostile forces and designated targets and can be used for route and mission planning.
The French Army has selected Giat to equip its Leclerc main battle tanks with a Terminal Information System (TIS) called Icone (Ergonomic Communications and Navigation Interface). The initial phase of the contract covers the equipment of more than 100 Leclerc tanks, with entry into service to start in 2003. The TIS has been developed together with EADS Defense Electronics Systems. It permits the exchange of digitised data including tactical situation and the graphic orders displayed on a background map, between the vehicle and higher level command.
ARMAMENT
The 120 mm 52 calibre smoothbore gun is fitted with a thermal sleeve and muzzle reference system. Fumes are exhausted with a compressed air unit. The gun, which fires APFSD (Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot) and HEAT (High Explosive Anti Tank) rounds, has a firing rate of 12 rounds/minute. The aiming system is entirely electrical for improved acceleration.
The tank has an automatic loading system, which allows cross-country fire-on-the-move against mobile targets. 22 rounds of ready-to-use ammunition are carried. The tank is also armed with a 12.7 mm machine gun co-axial with the main gun and a roof-mounted 7.62 mm anti-aircraft gun.
FIRE CONTROL AND OBSERVATION
The digital fire control system allows the gunner or commander to select six different targets to be engaged in just over 30 seconds. The system's digital computer allows realtime treatment of data from the tank's sensors and sights.
The commander has eight periscopes and an HL-70 stabilised panoramic sight from SFIM Industries, now part of SAGEM. HL-70 includes laser rangefinder, day channel, and second generation image intensifier. Recognition range is 4 km and identification range is 2.5 km. The commander has a display showing the gunner's thermal sight.
The gunner's station is equipped with gunner's main sight, three periscopes and a visual display unit. The gunner's stabilised sight is SAVAN 20 from SAGEM, which contains a three field of view thermal imager.
The driver's has three periscopes, the centre periscope being the OB-60 driver's sight developed by Thales Optrosys (formerly Thomson-CSF), which has day and night channels.
SELF-PROTECTION
Leclerc is fitted with Galix combat vehicle protection system, developed by GIAT and Lacroix Tous Artifices. Nine launch tubes for the 80mm grenades are fitted on either side of the turret roof. The Galix system can launch smoke or anti-personnel grenades or infrared decoys.
Giat has developed the KBCM defensive aids suite which can befitted to the Leclerc. KBCM includes laser warner, missile warner, infrared jammer and the Galix system and can be integrated with the Finders battle management system. The French Army has evaluated the system.
PROPULSION
The Leclerc is equipped with an SACM V8X-1500 Hyperbar diesel engine providing 1,500 hp at 2,500 rpm. An electronic engine management system is supplied by SAGEM. The SESM ESM 500 automatic transmission has a hydrostatic transmission unit and five forward and two reverse gears. The engine is fitted with a Suralmo-Hyperbar high pressure gas turbine. The engine provides a road speed over 70 km/hour and cross country speed up to 50 km/hour.
The tank also has a Turbomeca TM-307B gas turbine auxiliary power unit. The hydropneumatic suspension system is from Societe d'Applications des Machines Motrices (SAMM).
UAE TROPICALISED LECLERC MAIN BATTLE TANK
The tropicalised Leclerc is optimised for tropical and desert conditions to meet the requirement of the UAE. A new powerpack and diesel auxiliary power unit has been installed and the hull is extended at the back to accommodate the powerpack and larger fuel tanks. The Euro Powerpack has the MTU 883 V-12 diesel engine providing 1,500 hp, coupled with Renk HSWL295 TM automatic transmission. For this and export versions of the tank, Giat has developed the Leclerc Battle Management Equipment (LBME), a derivative of FINDERS. The HL-70 commander's sight has been replaced by the HL-80, also from SFIM.
LECLERC NEW GENERATION RECOVERY VEHICLE
The Leclerc New Generation Recovery Vehicle (NGRV) has a longer hull with seven pairs of wheels. An hydraulically operated blade at the front of the vehicle is used to clear a path through battlefield obstacles. The vehicle is equipped with an hydraulic crane rated to lift 30,000 kg loads and a winch with 180 m cable rated at 35,000 kg. A secondary winch is rated at 1,500 kg. The crane and winch systems are supplied by Rheinmetall Landsystemes GmbH.
Khudae Pa Aman.
"Pakistan is one of the many third-world countries that are ruled by America, indirectly through IMF"
- Imran Khan, on Canadian Broadcast Co
"Pakistan is one of the many third-world countries that are ruled by America, indirectly through IMF"
- Imran Khan, on Canadian Broadcast Co
#9
tank131
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GENERAL
Posted 01 April 2003 - 10:11 AM
Quote
M-1's are really good in the desert, i have seen them in such conditions myself.
They do get stuck though, so do vehicles a fraction of their weight. Even HUMVEES.
They do get stuck though, so do vehicles a fraction of their weight. Even HUMVEES.
Maybe they are good in Middle East desert. But we still hear on CNN that they are getting stuck in the dester sands. HUMVEES are alot less likely to get stuck, and when PA evaluated tanks like the Abrams, they were deemed to heavy for Rajastan. Remember Abram was design for european theatre to repel Soviet tanks. Not for desert combat. A lighter, yet high firepower tank will have an advantage in manouvering and speed, aswell as being less likely to get bogged down, not to say that they wont at all.
#10
PakistanSSG
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BRIGADIER
Posted 01 April 2003 - 12:01 PM
Have you guys seen the interior of the M1s!!!!!
"hum, err, where are the controls on this device. Now, on a russian MiG its next to the altimeter." Stewie, Family guy.
#11
michigan
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CAPTAIN
Posted 13 April 2003 - 01:45 AM
i'll go for leopard 2..........
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