90 replies to this topic

[Martian]

Krad, on 07 May 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

Any pictures of any developments on Chinese Future Soldier concepts?

Also we seem to be missing infantry fighting vehicles....these are crucial in today's battlefield.

New Chinese Infantry Fighting Vehicle?


Chinese armored Infantry Fighting Vehicles (IFV) transported by train.

This could be a new IFV design.

[Note: Thank you to Marchpole for the picture. Date of original post: January 2, 2012.]

[Krad]

Ah thanks martian. Seems like a double caliber turret 25 mm and .50 cal maybe.

[marchpole]

1st Type 056 launched at ZH：

[macau boy]

The hull was launched in the middle of the night. I don't recall HDZH did that before. I guess there was no ceremony, no big wigs on hand, no speech, no music, no firework no nothing.

[marchpole]

Test Ship 893

[marchpole]

HP Type 056 Light FFG（Corvette？）#1 waiting for high tide

[marchpole]

[marchpole]

close-ups

[macau boy]

Nice.
That 30mm can be operate by hand; that's something few ever notice or mention.
From the pics, 056 looks like the little brother of 054.

[marchpole]

macau boy, on 04 June 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

Nice.
That 30mm can be operate by hand; that's something few ever notice or mention.
From the pics, 056 looks like the little brother of 054.

Shipborne AESA 2.0：



Undergoing trials onboard Test Ship 891

[macau boy]

marchpole, on 05 June 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

Shipborne AESA 2.0：



Undergoing trials onboard Test Ship 891

WOW!
Now this would give us a good reason to look forward to the "D" under construction.

[marchpole]

macau boy, on 05 June 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

WOW!
Now this would give us a good reason to look forward to the "D" under construction.

A generation Multi-Purpose VLS is being tested on the same ship。

For comparison：



http://www.hobbyshan...-85854-1-1.html

[aziqbal]

Type 056 looks awesome, theres 2 at HP and 2 at HD, to make a total of 4 ships going to the HK Garrison

after initial deployment we may see upto 6-8 such ships entering service per year, theres lots of older frigates and FAC to be replaced

it is rumoured that another version called the Type 056A will have a hanger for a Z9 sized helicopter, and few different variation will be made depending on the requirment

overall a very nice looking ship with good on-board systems

[macau boy]

The vessel is meant to be affordable and can be built quickly in large number by second echelon shipyards with somewhat diverse technical expertise. You'll be see 056s coming from other yards soon.

[macau boy]

marchpole, on 05 June 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

A generation Multi-Purpose VLS is being tested on the same ship。

This has to be the greatest news for the month of June so far!

[marchpole]

aziqbal, on 05 June 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Type 056 looks awesome, theres 2 at HP and 2 at HD, to make a total of 4 ships going to the HK Garrison

after initial deployment we may see upto 6-8 such ships entering service per year, theres lots of older frigates and FAC to be replaced

it is rumoured that another version called the Type 056A will have a hanger for a Z9 sized helicopter, and few different variation will be made depending on the requirment

overall a very nice looking ship with good on-board systems

At least 4 Type 056s have been spotted at HPS alone， which is said to have won an initial order for 10 ships. Same for HDZH。Adding the other two yards involved，i.e. WC and LN， and you have a rough idea of the total coming off the production line。。。。

[marchpole]

GaoXin 8

[marchpole]

[marchpole]

Ma 9 wind tunnel completed for developing hypersonic aircrafts:

http://war.163.com/1...4000011MTO.html (Report in Chinese)

Airflow max. temp. 3000 Celsius.

[marchpole]

CZ（Long March）-5、CZ-5B、CZ-6、CZ-7、CZ-9、CZ-11



See page 24：

http://www.sasac.gov...zr/2011htkj.pdf

[marchpole]

Norinco Remote Control Weapon Station



The Remote Control Weapon Station is a state-of-the-art product of Norinco. It features low silhouette, easy mounting, convenient operation and excellent performance.

The RCWS can carry out day and night all-weather searching, aiming and firing against static or moving target while keeping the operator in protection.

[macau boy]

Any idea roughly how much that RCWS costs? It would be ideal to replace the 12.7mm AA gun currently mounted on ZTZ-99A/B.

[Martian]

Chinese Prototype For Electromagnetic Catapults For Aircraft Carriers


Ma Weiming

The designer of the system - Ma Weiming (马伟明),  graduated from Naval Engineering Institute in 1982; in 1996 received his doctorate at the University of Tsinghua. Known primarily as a specialist in electric power systems, and submarines. He is currently a professor at the Naval Engineering University of PLA.

Due to his achievements in 2001 he was elected a member of China Academy of Engineering Sciences. Recently, Central Military Commission of the PRC decided to award him for the successful development of an electromagnetic catapult for an aircraft carrier.

It is noted that the length of the catapult is more than 100 m, it is a linear motor with a complex system of energy supply and management. High-performance power storing and power conversion systems, allows it to launch an aircraft within 45 second. To disperse the heaviest aircraft carrier-based catapult must expend about 120 megajoules. The system of accumulation and energy storage has a capacity of 140 megajoules, or power of 3.1 MW, and including energy losses - up to 4 MW. Given the presence of four catapults on the ship, as well as other systems, the ship will require a source of energy up to 60 MW.

So, apparently, this is the indication that the future Chinese aircraft carrier may have a nuclear power plant.





Reference: Defence Dog

[Note: Thank you to "Greater China" for the post.]

[macau boy]

Quite a few shrimps, some rather big, said that Mr. Ma Weiming is also the brain behind Project 9409. If he keeps up the good work, I believe one day he will join the ranks of Qan Xuesen, Yuan Longping and Shi Changxu as great scientists of the Chinese People.

[Martian]

Probable Chinese hypersonic air-to-air missile test



The video has stirred many people. In my analysis, I conclude it's a hypersonic air-to-air missile.

From the opening scene, we seen a long horizontal contrail that extends tens of miles into the distance. It should be obvious to you the hypersonic missile is not that far above the ground/city and flying horizontally. If the missile had been flying vertically, the camera would have to pan up dramatically (like a Shenzhou flight). Instead, the horizon line in the video is relatively constant.

The hypersonic air-to-air missile flight shares the same "bow shock" as a hypersonic ballistic missile/rocket (see Shenzhou 9 flight). However, in the video, the hypersonic air-to-air missile has a blindingly white nose cone. This is a result of traveling hypersonically in dense low-altitude atmosphere. You never see a blindingly white Shenzhou nose cone, because it travels hypersonically through the rarefied high-altitude atmosphere.

The PLA has to conduct its hypersonic air-to-air missile test over continental China, because the U.S. has many sensors on ships waiting offshore to monitor a seaborne test. No one wants to share their test flight data with the other side.

The PLA probably intentionally conducted the test on a day with high moisture level to create an easily discernible bow-shock trail for later analysis.

The timing of the test during twilight was also probably intentional to create a high-contrast video. The video of the hypersonic test flight can be analyzed through spectroscopy to determine the temperature of the hypersonic air-to-air missile's nose cone.

After 30 seconds into the video, the bow-shock briefly stops and a second bow-shock is seen. This looks like the missile slowed down and then picked up speed again. Did the PLA intentionally throttle the engine momentarily as part of the test?

I believe the Chinese air-to-air missile is hypersonic, because I've never seen a bow shock this large. Supersonic aircraft or missiles create very small bow shocks and moisture condensation. Ramjets "as a class work most efficiently at speeds around Mach 3." I think China was testing a higher-speed hypersonic scramjet engine.

[Dizasta]

^^ Martian (and Marchpole), I have something to discuss here with you .........

You must have read about the U.S Navy's decision to deploy 'Laser Defense System', on its Aircraft Carriers and Destroyers. Northrop Grumman has been awarded a $98 million contract to develop a Seaborne Laser Weapons System, which would be installed on US Navy Carriers and Destroyers. Also, that the US Air Force, whose ABL program was cancelled, is to develop a different type of Airborne Laser Weapons System, which could see the laser weapons being installed/integrated on UAS (Unmanned Air Systems). Given these recent developments, such technological evolution would completely change the face of modern warfare. It is safe to assume, however, that this technology will perhaps take at least a decade to become operational.

Also, you must be aware of US military's need for speed urge, that has been on-going for decades, has now evolved into the Hypersonic quest. Recent, related news, emerging from America, is that successful tests have taken place to observe the feasibility of hypersonic vehicles. This technology has the potential to evolve into hypersonic nuclear missiles, hypersonic air-to-air missiles, hypersonic bombers or hypersonic space vehicles that can deploy WMDs from space. And at the rate the development is progressing, we can possibly see the advent of Hypersonic deploy-able weapons, in the coming decade. Which would seriously displace the balance of power, globally and would marginalize China and Russia's ability to challenge the West's hegemonic designs.

My question and point to you, Martian and Marchpole, is that if you look at the bigger picture with the Laser Weapons (used for defensive purposes) on one side and the Hypersonic Vehicle (used offensively) on the other. The picture becomes more and more apparent, that the West is looking to gain a decisive military advantage over China and Russia. Not only would the West have a 'Sure-Shot' capability against Russian and Chinese Nuclear Ballistic Missiles, but would also have Hypersonic Missiles & Bombers to attack Russia and China, would not have any way of defeating the incoming threat. This is the point I am trying to make and the question (which I assume you already know), is that does China anticipate such a threat? And are there any developments or research to respond to the threat of this nature? Also, what is China's progress on Laser Weapons, Mobile or Stationary?

Regards,

Mujahid Achakzai

[Martian]

1. Laser weapons are useless in bad weather (e.g. rain, fog, snow, dust storm, etc.).

2. They have very limited range. A MegaWatt-class Boeing Airborne Laser (ABL) can only shoot 50 to 100 miles in the thin atmosphere at 40,000 feet.

3. Laser weapons can be defeated by countermeasures, such as spinning a missile, having an outer reflective sheath, and installing ablative armor beneath the sheath.

The Boeing ABL required two minutes to shoot down an unprotected and thin-skinned liquid-fueled missile. A solid-fueled missile has a thicker outer skin and would require more time to shoot down.

4. Laser weapons must continuously correct for air turbulence. This means you need a laser guide correcter for every target. Hence, laser weapons are susceptible to being overwhelmed with a mass missile attack. You cannot track and shoot simultaneously incoming missiles.

5. A high-power laser has a very limited number of shots. It consumes a massive amount of chemical fuel for each shot.

6. The use of a laser weapon reveals the defender's position and increases susceptibility to attack. While you're busy shooting one target, a stealth UAV drops a stealth bomb or missile on your location.

----------

The U.S. hypersonic vehicle is in an early experimental stage. No one knows if a fully functional bomber will ever be built, the cost, or its expected arrival date.

A hypersonic vehicle changes nothing. There will be very limited numbers due to the extremely high cost.

A hypersonic vehicle is designed to fly lower in the atmosphere. This will create a massive infrared signature. China can see the U.S. hypersonic vehicle coming from thousands of miles away. China has hundreds of ICBM mobile launchers dispersed throughout the Chinese continent and this presents a problem off too many well-hidden targets. Also, a hypersonic vehicle is useless against underwater Chinese SSBNs.

Given the budget problems in the United States (see citation below) and the impending $45 to $105 billion cut in the annual Pentagon budget, I think China is more likely to develop a fully operational hypersonic vehicle than the United States in the 2020s or 2030s.

http://www.reuters.c...tors_picks=true

"The nation [United States] is also expected to run into the statutory $16.4 trillion cap on its debt before the end of the year [2012], raising the prospect of a default absent congressional action to raise it."

[Dizasta]

Martian, on 16 July 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

1. Laser weapons are useless in bad weather (e.g. rain, fog, snow, dust storm, etc).

That's a fair assessment, however, complacency shouldn't entertained by China. The yanks have been researching, testing and modifying the employment of laser, trying to weaponize it. China should consider the possibility, where when the yanks resolve the issues regarding weather conditions, such a threat should be considered real and imminent.

Quote

2. They have very limited range. A MegaWatt-class Boeing Airborne Laser (ABL) can only shoot 50 to 100 miles in the thin atmosphere at 40,000 feet.

But still, China should consider the various options that are available in the employment of laser weapon, in defensive nature. Where, for instance, the Americans are able to develop UAVs, which are able to carry 'Laser Defense Suite', allowing them to be deployed as escorts to the B-2 Spirit stealth bomber. In the event that the B-2s are detected and fire upon, the escorting UAVs could easily intercept and destroy incoming SAMs. There is every possibility that America would use this sort of tactic on the first day of war, instead of using the F-22 Raptor. Which would make things more dangerous, as the Raptor would be hunting in the sky, free from escort, there could be no stopping the Raptor from gaining total 'Air Dominance', in the area of operation. Also, consider the fact that the USAF will be sending the UAVs as wolf-packs, escorting the bombers in sufficient numbers.

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3. Laser weapons can be defeated by countermeasures, such as spinning a missile, having an outer reflective sheath, and installing ablative armor beneath the sheath.

Yes indeed, that is very true and I am pretty sure that China and Russia would have already began modifications to their Nuclear Ballistic Missiles. But remember, for every tactic, there is a counter-strategy and America is no stranger to this sort of planning and strategy. All they have to do, if their intel gives them accurate news that China and Russia have modified their missiles, is to increase the LDW's out-put capacity. The higher the directed energy output, the less effective would the protective sheath be. Kinda like Armor and Armor-Piercing in tank warfare.

Quote

4. Laser weapons must continuously correct for air turbulence. This means you need a laser guide correcter for every target. Hence, laser weapons are susceptible to being overwhelmed with a mass missile attack. You cannot track and shoot simultaneously incoming missiles.

You make a good point here, Martian. However, I only argue that China ought to consider the possibility that these limitations of LDWs, is rectified by the Americans and effectively deployed in sufficient numbers. Where, there is every likelihood that the US Navy Aircraft Carriers would have a saturated LDW-CIWS-SAMs layered defense. Where LWDs and CIWS would be deployed on the Carrier and its escort ships would have SAMs and LWDs. Which would make it very difficult to penetrate and would become prohibitive to expend such a large cache of Anti-Ship Missiles. However, PLA Navy sinking even one US Navy Carrier, could bring a stop to all hostilities, very quick. In which case perhaps, the PLA Navy could overwhelm the yanks by launching 100s of ASW-Missiles and Carrier-Killer Ballistic Missiles.

Quote

6. The use of a laser weapon reveals the defender's position and increases susceptibility to attack. While you're busy shooting one target, a stealth UAV drops a stealth bomb or missile on your location.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the developmental LWD described as being invisible to the naked eye?

[Martian]

1. The Boeing ABL was a massive 747 with gigantic tanks of chemicals in its cargo hold (for approximately 20 two-minute shots) to power the MegaWatt-class laser. An UAV accompanying a F-22 will be tiny and it cannot supply the chemical fuel to generate significant power.

The other problem is tracking and lock on. Though the Boeing ABL carried gigantic optics for a search laser, it failed a few times to strike the target due to "misalignment." A relatively small UAV is not a stable platform in comparison to a Boeing 747. The problem from turbulence is greatly magnified.

Also, a F-22 can supercruise. If an UAV is moving at supersonic speed, it is not stable at all for a laser weapon platform. Finally, a relatively tiny UAV can only carry small optics. Its range will be severely limited.

I'm not sure if there is sufficient room on an UAV's radome to fit a search laser and the primary laser weapon. There is very little room.

2. A laser can be detected by an infrared sensor. As the laser beam travels through the air, some of its energy will be transferred to air molecules. Indeed, if you watched the video of the two-minuted ABL test on a thin-skinned unprotected non-spinning liquid-fueled ICBM then you would have seen the massive signature in infrared. This is detection of the laser beam's indirect effect.

A laser beam is also directly visible in its wavelength. To generate a high-power gamma or x-ray beam, you usually need a particle accelerator or something really huge. Those wavelengths are not practical for battlefield equipment. You are left with ultraviolet, visible light, and infrared. Any multispectral detector can see the expected wavelength.

Obviously, masers are not worth discussing. The power level is too low and it'll just heat up the water molecules in the air (due to humidity).

[marchpole]

Interesting development：

[Magnus]

[Martian]

Range of China's DF-21D Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile (ASBM)



[Note: Thank you to EastWind for the picture.]

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US Naval War College: China's DF-21D ASBM costs $5 to $10.5 million per missile


A Chinese DF-21D ASBM costs only $5 to $10.5 million. China can afford to build hundreds of them.


Out of the 100 DF-21D ASBMs fired at a single aircraft carrier, China only needs one or two hits to achieve a "soft kill" (e.g. knocked out of combat). If there are more impacts, the carrier might sink.

I have suggested China may fire 100 DF-21D ASBMs to arrive near-simultaneously and attack an aircraft carrier. However, is this economically feasible? As shown in the citation below, each DF-21D ASBM costs between $5 to $10.5 million per missile.

We'll pick the upper range and say each DF-21D ASBM costs $10 million. A bombardment of 100 DF-21D ASBMs will cost a total of $1 billion. This is a cost-effective way to attack a $5 billion aircraft carrier.

Anyway, in a war, costs don't really matter. China will attempt to sink the aircraft carrier with sufficient numbers of DF-21D ASBMs regardless of cost.

----------

From the third page at the following link from the US Naval War College:

http://www.usnwc.edu...s-of-Obscurants

"While it is problematic to estimate accurately the cost of the DF-21, sources place the unit price, in U.S. currency, between $5,000,000 and $10,500,000 per missile.[7] This seems a reasonable estimate in light of the cost of a similar weapon, the U.S. Pershing II, which adjusted for inflation would be roughly twelve million dollars per missile. In comparison, the ballistic-missile-defense-capable SM-3 costs roughly ten million dollars per missile. At first blush, the nearly equal prices of interceptor (SM-3) and ASBM (DF-21) suggest near parity in cost ratio, but a “shoot two to kill one” doctrine means a differential of nearly ten million dollars per exchange. However, even this is misleading, as the launch platform—essentially a big truck—of the DF-21 is far less expensive than that of the SM-3, a warship. This estimate also ignores the operational and developmental challenges of intercepting an ASBM; nor does it fold in the things like purchasing power disparity, labor costs, and government controls, which all favor China. Nonetheless, this simple cost comparison is striking."

[Bilal]

Can someone share info about SY-400, its a very interesting concept.

[macau boy]

Bilal, on 06 August 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

Can someone share info about SY-400, its a very interesting concept.

SY-400 is a CASIC product first showed to the public in '08 Zhuhai Airshow. It is a long range precision ground attack weapon system. The MRLS is usually mounted 2 X 4 on a TEL and can be launched vertically or at an angle. The weapon can be simultaneously reloaded (all 8 rounds) thus is normally depolyed at the battalion level or higher. Because the rocket has a 400mm diameter (the 400 in SY-400), it is, IIRC, the biggest rocket in Chinese produced MRLS today. The minimum range of SY-400 is 200 Km. Each rocket has a simplified guidance system that can be modified and upgraded according to a customer's desire; therefore, the circular error probable (CEP) can be reduced significantly depending on the types and levels of devices used. Sometimes SY-400 is dubbed "poor man's ballistic missile".

[Martian]

Beautiful HD picture of Z-10 attack helicopter


China's WZ-10 Attack Helicopter

[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the post.]

[Martian]

Chinese JZY-01 Aircraft Carrier-Capable AEW&C Aircraft

Chinese JZY-01 Prototype of Shipborne Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) Aircraft which will form the basis of an aircraft carrier capable AEW&C. JZY is Pinyin (Chinese Phonetics） short for Shipborne Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) Aircraft.

The primary role of the carrier based airborne early-warning and control aircraft will be to provide air & surface surveillance and coordination of the offensive and defensive strike/air defense packages.to effectively deal with the potentially hostile targets both in air and at sea.





[Note: Thank you to "Greater China" and LandShark for the newslink.]

[Bilal]

macau boy, on 06 August 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

SY-400 is a CASIC product first showed to the public in '08 Zhuhai Airshow. It is a long range precision ground attack weapon system. The MRLS is usually mounted 2 X 4 on a TEL and can be launched vertically or at an angle. The weapon can be simultaneously reloaded (all 8 rounds) thus is normally depolyed at the battalion level or higher. Because the rocket has a 400mm diameter (the 400 in SY-400), it is, IIRC, the biggest rocket in Chinese produced MRLS today. The minimum range of SY-400 is 200 Km. Each rocket has a simplified guidance system that can be modified and upgraded according to a customer's desire; therefore, the circular error probable (CEP) can be reduced significantly depending on the types and levels of devices used. Sometimes SY-400 is dubbed "poor man's ballistic missile".

I thought the range is 400 km, if so, what are the implications of export?

[macau boy]

Bilal, on 08 August 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

I thought the range is 400 km, if so, what are the implications of export?

The 200 Km is the minimum range of SY-400, not the maximum range.
I am sure you are aware of existing UN arms export controls and various international accords governing this type of weapon sales. In this case the effective range depends on the particular type of fuel rod being used. A more chemically advanced fuel rod would produce a higher and more powerful energy output (thrust) per unit volume than one that is less so, thus allowing the rocket to cover a longer distance. Also, the warhead (SY-400 has choices for warheads) may affect the range. Since the main selling point of this system is its simplified guidance devices in the rocket, only the minimum range was made public.

[marchpole]

4th Type 056 Corvette launched at LN（PLAN NO。4810 Shipyard Co。Ltd） today：

[macau boy]

Four yards (so far) are building this vessel. It would make the 054A dumpling making look like snail crawling.