130 replies to this topic

[Tarbela]

QUETTA (updated on: September 28, 2010, 16:41 PST): Tethyan Copper Company Pakistan plans to operate a world class copper, gold mine with 2.2 billion tonnes economically mineable reserves by deploying a cutting edge technology at Reco Dig, Chagai, Balochistan as a joint venture with Government of Balochistan with initial $3.2 billion foreign direct investment over four years.

‘We have submitted a feasibility study to Balochistan government and having talks with Provincial government to conclude an agreement which will result in take-off for the project in next four years.

Balochistan will get 25 percent profit plus royalty and taxes to Federal and Provincial governments. Balochistan government will invest 25 percent in construction, development of project,’ TCCP senior project geologist Asadur Rehman told a group of journalists who visited site of project , 70km north west of Nokandi.

He said if agreement was signed with Balochistan government, TCCP ( Barrick Gold Corporation and Antofagasta Minerals of Chile will export condensate copper and gold through Gwadar port through 682km buried pipeline from Reco Dig to Gwadar at prices quoted on London Stock Exchange. TCCP has so far invested $214 million in Reco Dig project.

He said estimated payable metal production at Reco Dig over about 56 years of mine life is 22 billion pounds of copper and 13 million ounces of gold. It has average grade of 0.5 percent copper and 0.3 grams gold per tonne.

It is likely that a number of other mineralization centers exist in Pakistan with significant potential for further discoveries, he stated. However, extensive exploration work and risk investments are required to identify these mineralization centers.

Rehman said mining at Reco Dig could well be the engine of economic growth for Balochistan province with a significant spill over effect into rest of Pakistan. The direct and indirect employment during mine development phase and during commercial operations phase will mean that each of families scattered over hundreds of kilometers around the project shall have a direct interest or a business transaction with this project.

About 11,500 construction jobs are expected to be created at the peak of project construction. Working on this ambitious project with two major international mining companies will certainly have deep impact on life of everybody involved, he added.

PPI (Pakistan Press International), 2010

[HKK]

He said if agreement was signed with Balochistan government, TCCP ( Barrick Gold Corporation and Antofagasta Minerals of Chile will export condensate copper and gold through Gwadar port through 682km buried pipeline from Reco Dig to Gwadar at prices quoted on London Stock Exchange. TCCP has so far invested $214 million in Reco Dig project.

HELL NO. taking Pakistani gold out of gawadar port!! WTF is going on? This gold is the property of Pakistan and Pakistan only. It should be only stored in state bank of Pakistan to help Pakistan economy. This gold is not meant for federal reserves. The traitors should be shoot at first sight.

[waz]

He said if agreement was signed with Balochistan government, TCCP ( Barrick Gold Corporation and Antofagasta Minerals of Chile will export condensate copper and gold through Gwadar port through 682km buried pipeline from Reco Dig to Gwadar at prices quoted on London Stock Exchange. TCCP has so far invested $214 million in Reco Dig project.

HELL NO. taking Pakistani gold out of gawadar port!! WTF is going on? This gold is the property of Pakistan and Pakistan only. It should be only stored in state bank of Pakistan to help Pakistan economy. This gold is not meant for federal reserves. The traitors should be shoot at first sight.

Don't worry bro, they will provide a handful of jobs and line the pockets of some greedy sardars, whilst gold is shipped out and hits an all time high price.

Disgraceful. Leave it alone full stop! Wait till we mature as a nation and have responsible people in charge. Inviting these parasites to scourge our land is the lowest of the low.

[platinum786]

Nowadays copper is worth a lot too. Our governments are stupid to be exporting copper. We should instead produce products from the copper and then export them instead.

China is a massive importer of copper, the USA is a massive importer of copper. They use the copper to produce electrical cables, use in circuit boards. Instead of exporting the copper, we could produce cables, produce the copper strings put on the circuit boards etc, and export those. Not only would we create more jobs and more industries, we'd still be doing it cheaper than they could and remain competitive.

1 yaun is equal to 12 rupees, I'm sure we can produce stuff cheaper!

As for exporting gold, that is the greatest stupidity ever. The only man stupid enough to get rid of gold was Gordon Brooown.

[Wing Commander]

I have been following this project at Reko diq for a while, to be fair the PPP government has raised the idea of not exporting the raw copper (which Musharraf's government agreed to) but to instead refine and use it in manufacturing in Pakistan.

They are I believe in talks with BHP Billiton to set up a smelter on Build, operate, own basis.  To process the raw copper, I am very much for this project as it will drive the economic development in Balochistan, Pakistan's poorest province.

The deposit is a very large one and its best for Pakistan to export the copper, we need to gain maximum benefit of it.  Most of its use is in copper wiring for buildings etc.  while we should strive to produce the copper wire ourselves, this is not an overnight project.  It will take years just to build the mine.  let alone the downstream industry.

This type of project is what will drive the economy of Pakistan forward, we need to learn from the other BRIC's how the use of minerals and commodities has driven their economies forward.

[Tarbela]

I have been following this project at Reko diq for a while, to be fair the PPP government has raised the idea of not exporting the raw copper (which Musharraf's government agreed to) but to instead refine and use it in manufacturing in Pakistan.

They are I believe in talks with BHP Billiton to set up a smelter on Build, operate, own basis.  To process the raw copper, I am very much for this project as it will drive the economic development in Balochistan, Pakistan's poorest province.

The deposit is a very large one and its best for Pakistan to export the copper, we need to gain maximum benefit of it.  Most of its use is in copper wiring for buildings etc.  while we should strive to produce the copper wire ourselves, this is not an overnight project.  It will take years just to build the mine.  let alone the downstream industry.

This type of project is what will drive the economy of Pakistan forward, we need to learn from the other BRIC's how the use of minerals and commodities has driven their economies forward.

Excellent . You are absolutely right, at least it will produce in Pakistan and will generate lot of employments.

[Saqr]

I don't know the specifics of this program, but generally speaking, Pakistan should avoid privatizing natural resources such as fossil fuels, minerals, metals, etc.  There are many good lessons to learn from the BRIC and Asian Tigers, such as their administrative/organizational and industrial planning successes, but many practices that we should avoid (such as giving private entities control of our natural resources).  Granted Pakistan does not have the same financial and technical means to fully exploit its copper deposits, but can't this be acquired nationally by generating funds through something like land-taxation?  What about public-private ventures in providing public services such as transportation and telecom whereby profits are shared between state and private sector?  

We need to learn more lessons from the Asian Tigers in their EOI approaches to hi-tech manufacturing, especially in consumer goods.  Pakistani brands might not cut it any time soon, but it should strongly push foreign brands selling in the country to manufacture their goods locally.  No doubt considerable investment would be required in developing the technical human resources and to meet-up with stringent quality standards, but I'd imagine the goods produced at home would be (1) cheaper and (2) generate local employment in tech-oriented sectors.  The Pakistani market alone is quite substantial, but consumer goods made in Pakistan might be able to dig some footings in abroad (maybe even in India!).  Nonetheless the key to succeeding in this effort is for the state/government to make substantive investments in vocational/trade education.

From BRIC we can learn how to market Pakistani brands in areas where we can succeed by reasonable measure, such as in agriculture (not only produce, but also related technology and expertise), heavy manufacturing (of aircraft, ships, machinery, etc), or in being a spot for service-outsourcing and subcontracting by big corporations such as Boeing, Airbus, etc.  For example, I'd say Pakistan definitely has a domestic requirement for many transport helicopters, so why don't we have a P3 (Public-Private Partnership) where we develop and manufacture something in the class of AW149?  I believe Turkey's TAI has such a program in its very initial stages, why not pair with them and form a commercial-aviation consortium to jointly market the good around the developing world?  Or how about work with AugustaWestland on their AW149 and then market it jointly, like Turkey did with the AW-TAI T-129 attack helicopter?  Military products might be a tough sell, but joint-ventures in advanced commercial aircraft, ships, etc, would go a long way...Pakistan also has a latent need for high-speed rail-systems for intra-urban and inter-regional use; a need for a regional passenger aircraft (public & private use), etc...there are many areas to look into and strive for.  

I don't see the need or justification to whole heartedly follow the examples of others as a whole, we just need to adopt the good parts that are legitimate for us, and nothing else.

What we lack is vision, sincerity and leadership...I can go on for days on an ideal economic plan, infrastructure ideas, etc, but it is useless without proper leadership.

[HKK]

I have been following this project at Reko diq for a while, to be fair the PPP government has raised the idea of not exporting the raw copper (which Musharraf's government agreed to) but to instead refine and use it in manufacturing in Pakistan.

They are I believe in talks with BHP Billiton to set up a smelter on Build, operate, own basis.  To process the raw copper, I am very much for this project as it will drive the economic development in Balochistan, Pakistan's poorest province.

The deposit is a very large one and its best for Pakistan to export the copper, we need to gain maximum benefit of it.  Most of its use is in copper wiring for buildings etc.  while we should strive to produce the copper wire ourselves, this is not an overnight project.  It will take years just to build the mine.  let alone the downstream industry.

This type of project is what will drive the economy of Pakistan forward, we need to learn from the other BRIC's how the use of minerals and commodities has driven their economies forward.

For what I know, being an IT professional, the cost of copper cables, cat6 (LAN), have gone up exponentially due to less availibilty of copper.

[Wing Commander]

I don't know the specifics of this program, but generally speaking, Pakistan should avoid privatizing natural resources such as fossil fuels, minerals, metals, etc.  There are many good lessons to learn from the BRIC and Asian Tigers, such as their administrative/organizational and industrial planning successes, but many practices that we should avoid (such as giving private entities control of our natural resources).  Granted Pakistan does not have the same financial and technical means to fully exploit its copper deposits, but can't this be acquired nationally by generating funds through something like land-taxation?  What about public-private ventures in providing public services such as transportation and telecom whereby profits are shared between state and private sector?  

We need to learn more lessons from the Asian Tigers in their EOI approaches to hi-tech manufacturing, especially in consumer goods.  Pakistani brands might not cut it any time soon, but it should strongly push foreign brands selling in the country to manufacture their goods locally.  No doubt considerable investment would be required in developing the technical human resources and to meet-up with stringent quality standards, but I'd imagine the goods produced at home would be (1) cheaper and (2) generate local employment in tech-oriented sectors.  The Pakistani market alone is quite substantial, but consumer goods made in Pakistan might be able to dig some footings in abroad (maybe even in India!).  Nonetheless the key to succeeding in this effort is for the state/government to make substantive investments in vocational/trade education.

From BRIC we can learn how to market Pakistani brands in areas where we can succeed by reasonable measure, such as in agriculture (not only produce, but also related technology and expertise), heavy manufacturing (of aircraft, ships, machinery, etc), or in being a spot for service-outsourcing and subcontracting by big corporations such as Boeing, Airbus, etc.  For example, I'd say Pakistan definitely has a domestic requirement for many transport helicopters, so why don't we have a P3 (Public-Private Partnership) where we develop and manufacture something in the class of AW149?  I believe Turkey's TAI has such a program in its very initial stages, why not pair with them and form a commercial-aviation consortium to jointly market the good around the developing world?  Or how about work with AugustaWestland on their AW149 and then market it jointly, like Turkey did with the AW-TAI T-129 attack helicopter?  Military products might be a tough sell, but joint-ventures in advanced commercial aircraft, ships, etc, would go a long way...Pakistan also has a latent need for high-speed rail-systems for intra-urban and inter-regional use; a need for a regional passenger aircraft (public & private use), etc...there are many areas to look into and strive for.  

I don't see the need or justification to whole heartedly follow the examples of others as a whole, we just need to adopt the good parts that are legitimate for us, and nothing else.

What we lack is vision, sincerity and leadership...I can go on for days on an ideal economic plan, infrastructure ideas, etc, but it is useless without proper leadership.

saqr mian,

you are a young student, that is why the concept of nationalisation appeals to you.  anyone who has worked for governments anywhere in the world can see how inefficient they are.  They waste monumental amounts of money, and achieve little.  There is a reason why such nationalisation has failed in practically every developed country, and why every single developed country even communist china is moving toward the private sector, because its the only model that works.

Having worked for councils an central government in the UK I see the waste here, I can only imagine the waste, mixed with nepotism and corruption in Pakistan.  I mean one absolutely crazy rule comes to mind from Pakistan, if a state employee spends a certain part of his employed life with a state institution, this automatically gave his son/relative automatic right to a job.  utterly bizarre.  thankfully this was axed a while back but the fact it existed at all shows the kind of behaviour you get when there is a lack of responsibility in state institutions.  I do think its important that Pakistan gets the rewards of these resources, but it is not a simple matter of nationalisation.  We need to look at what ways have worked best in other countries and its pretty obvious nationalisation is a poor option.  I know the HT's support the thesis that resources should be nationalised however I think this is ideology, not reality.  There is a reason why people who believe this are not in a position to make such decisions.  Again this is a difference between idealism and realism.

It will be privatised to a degree, but the private sector will contribute to the major investment required to dig this stuff out of the ground.

Like I said this project will last the next 50 years, as this is one of the largest copper deposits in the world.  you can read about it on wikipedia.

computer cables are a side product the main use of copper is in the construction of homes etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper#Applications

more reading on reko diq

http://www.barrick.com/GlobalOperations/Pr...iq/default.aspx

[Saqr]

saqr mian,

you are a young student, that is why the concept of nationalisation appeals to you.  anyone who has worked for governments anywhere in the world can see how inefficient they are.  They waste monumental amounts of money, and achieve little.  There is a reason why such nationalisation has failed in practically every developed country, and why every single developed country even communist china is moving toward the private sector, because its the only model that works.

This is a very general and vague statement.  No one said that every single industry, resource, etc, must be nationalized, but rather that some things - such as natural resources (minerals, fossil fuels, etc) must be kept under public control and for public benefit.  I don't have to go into Islam to justify this (although this is where my stance on this matter stems from), you will even find neoliberal-leaning thinkers/practitioners/professionals allude to the same thing (such as Paul Collier).  That said, I don't see a problem in relying on the private sector to provide services such as transportation, sanitation, consumer industry, technological R&D, etc, because there is no doubt that such entities are supposed to be efficient and profit-driven.  In fact it is vital that the private sector pick up and thrive on such things in any vibrant economy, and this is a near universal fact nowadays.  However, when it comes to natural resources, things are not as simple, and you're going to find plenty of non-Muslims who will be adamant on it remaining as a public resource.  That said, I don't understand why we must completely rely on the private sector and abandon the public sector?  Why not reform the public sector to make it operate like the private sector, so that the state can generate more revenue but with less costs?  We need to be innovative and critical with regards to public management, not simply copy-paste every single thing we see...

Having worked for councils an central government in the UK I see the waste here, I can only imagine the waste, mixed with nepotism and corruption in Pakistan.  I mean one absolutely crazy rule comes to mind from Pakistan, if a state employee spends a certain part of his employed life with a state institution, this automatically gave his son/relative automatic right to a job.  utterly bizarre.  thankfully this was axed a while back but the fact it existed at all shows the kind of behaviour you get when there is a lack of responsibility in state institutions.  I do think its important that Pakistan gets the rewards of these resources, but it is not a simple matter of nationalisation.  We need to look at what ways have worked best in other countries and its pretty obvious nationalisation is a poor option.  I know the HT's support the thesis that resources should be nationalised however I think this is ideology, not reality.  There is a reason why people who believe this are not in a position to make such decisions.  Again this is a difference between idealism and realism.

If that is the case, then I think we need to look at the organizational merits of the Asian Tigers if anything.  We are complaining about high trade deficits, bloated bureaucracies/public sector, inefficiency, lack of business spirit, etc, then I don't see how privatizing natural resources is the solution.  We need to adopt some of the administrative practices of say South Korea:  Look at the consumer goods that we're importing, can we substitute those imports with locally manufactured goods?  Why not?  Well because we lack the necessary human resources (lack of technician-level people?)?  Then we need to produce such people and demand that foreign corporations manufacture the goods they intend to market in Pakistan domestically using Pakistanis.  This generates (1) foreign investment and technology transfer in the private sector, (2) employment of local Pakistanis, (3) income for the people.  Extracting and refining public resources can be contracted out to private companies, but the end profits should be used for public purposes such as healthcare, education, infrastructure, defence, etc.  Pakistan also needs to develop a strong revenue collections system, particularly in terms of collecting land and produce-taxes from the agricultural sector.    

I don't think South Korea is a dirt poor country, in fact, it is has done fairly well it would seem...

It will be privatised to a degree, but the private sector will contribute to the major investment required to dig this stuff out of the ground.

Like I said this project will last the next 50 years, as this is one of the largest copper deposits in the world.  you can read about it on wikipedia.

computer cables are a side product the main use of copper is in the construction of homes etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper#Applications

more reading on reko diq

http://www.barrick.com/GlobalOperations/Pr...iq/default.aspx

I would much rather public funds be used to CONTRACT the private sector to do the work in terms of extraction, refinery, etc, but the management end product be left to the state.  And if Pakistani corruption is the problem, then I definitely would NOT trust those people when they sell off public-resources - it is common sense.

[Wing Commander]

My understanding is that the work will be carried out by the private sector with the Balochistan government getting a share of the income.  Which is probably the way that is most efficient.  I believe governments like Pakistan should never get involved in the delivery of such commodities, their role should only be to supervise/manage the market, maintaining the state's interests.  not those of individuals who want government contracts which is what happens when you get the government involved.

otherwise every bureaucrat will be ready for his 'share', everyone with a desk and required piece of paper will have his hand outstretched.

as for substituting goods, I'm all for it.  However there is difference between talking and doing.  Most people like to talk about these things but have no intention of doing.  I believe only talk about it if you intend to do it.

[waz]

Well copper is one thing, but the gold should not be going anywhere.

[Saqr]

My understanding is that the work will be carried out by the private sector with the Balochistan government getting a share of the income.  Which is probably the way that is most efficient.  I believe governments like Pakistan should never get involved in the delivery of such commodities, their role should only be to supervise/manage the market, maintaining the state's interests.  not those of individuals who want government contracts which is what happens when you get the government involved.

I agree with regards to tackling corruption, kick-backs, hoarding, etc!  But I do not believe governments (especially Pakistan's current set-up) should simply sell-off public resources to private entities.  If the reason for selling to the private sector is a matter of state corruption, then shouldn't efforts be made into developing independent judicial oversight?  Even in privatization, judicial oversight is necessary to ensure the transparency of the contract as well as the well-being of the workers involved.  In the absence of accountable government, TNCs, MNCs, etc, were able to exploit the local workers to a very high degree...hence it is clear that even privatization is not a solution to bad governance.  This copper deal might sound OK on the surface, but reality & history dictates that when an indifferent and inept government undertakes in such transactions, both the nation (loss of its resources) and the people (who are often exploited) suffer.  

otherwise every bureaucrat will be ready for his 'share', everyone with a desk and required piece of paper will have his hand outstretched.

as for substituting goods, I'm all for it.  However there is difference between talking and doing.  Most people like to talk about these things but have no intention of doing.  I believe only talk about it if you intend to do it.

I am up for investing money into a plant that can manufacture components for computers, televisions, etc, but I need to make sure that there are qualified people to hire at every necessary level to operate the machinery, market the goods properly, etc.  Producing a skill pool is the job of the state via its institutions of education and training...which is lacking in Pakistan, to say the least.  That said, I am seriously studying the possibility based on Pakistan's current capacities...

[haroons222]

It is a chilean/aus conglomerate...and iheard half of that is owned by some jewish investors...

75% Is very high as well.
I think we should contact South African companies, they are much more open to their technology, have mining know how and will be willing to build the mine.The price we are paying is tooo much.

Yes the copper processing will take long, but we should start somewhere,we should be planning way into the future.The current corupt govt. is spending money on useless things, 17 bn over the last two yrs went downt he drain, they could have easily invested half of that and we could get both Reko dig(3.2bn) and coal thar development in full swing. I think someone needs to petition this deal in court...YES WE DO NEED foreign investment, but tis is just exploitation.
Reko Dig project is huge, they shouldnt just allow such a big discovery be exploited by outsider...we should be getting atleast 35/65...if not more.

[Wing Commander]

Saqr I think you have mis-understood, the resource is not being privatised, rather a deal is being agreed to allocate what percentage the government will get and what percentage the companies involved get.  I think they (the government) have done reasonably well to review this; the review is ongoing ie not over yet as they are trying to agree the setting up of a smelter.  once this infrastructure is in place, further downstream industry is inevitable.

the gold is a by product of the mine, I'm not sure what the plan is for that.  but I'm certain the government will be extracting its share regardless of which by product.

getting the courts involved will only waste money and lead to more delays.  You have to show first where you think there is a better deal available for Pakistan.  Are there any particular South African companies you have in mind?  Have any of them shown interest in Reko Diq?

[haroons222]

Saqr I think you have mis-understood, the resource is not being privatised, rather a deal is being agreed to allocate what percentage the government will get and what percentage the companies involved get.  I think they (the government) have done reasonably well to review this; the review is ongoing ie not over yet as they are trying to agree the setting up of a smelter.  once this infrastructure is in place, further downstream industry is inevitable.

the gold is a by product of the mine, I'm not sure what the plan is for that.  but I'm certain the government will be extracting its share regardless of which by product.

getting the courts involved will only waste money and lead to more delays.  You have to show first where you think there is a better deal available for Pakistan.  Are there any particular South African companies you have in mind?  Have any of them shown interest in Reko Diq?

This is an option i think the govt. needs to explore.Ideally we should be mining it ourselves...or the govt. can set up a mining company by raising funds...preferrably domestically,publically funded , national operated venture which helps our own awam.
Also, there are chinese companies which mine gold.The problem i have have is that with most other projects, the size of the ore is much smaller and that is why the percent that goes to the mining companies islarger...incase of Reko dig, we are talking abt 100bn of gold alone, there is silver and copper as well..after the 3.2 bn of setting up the mine, theres the running cost and the processing cost, but the initial 3.2 bn is the largest chunk...and in return they get 75bn gross revenue(plus copper and silver).This is too big a treasure to be given away like this...Also considering its the same company that first came during mush era...i am guessing there i some pressure and some money being flashed our way...bribing the politicians perhaps?

Im not against the project, but i think we can negotiate much better terms...the risk here is that instead of coming down to say 40-60(which literally means give us 40 bn instead of 25) they can easily pay up Mr. 10% 100mill, throw raisani 10 mils and keep it to 75/25...infact if the CJ hadnt taken notice of this earlier...this probably woudl have hppened already.


Again if i my add...Dr. Samar Mubarik interview poste elsewhre on the forum..he said that the mining of copper and its processin is very similar to Copper, and if the GoP invests and plans that project, our own scientists can work on this project and give us great results.I know we are wary of nationalized projects,i am too but i think the % would still be better than 25 AND if it can be a semi-govt. project, maybe it can be traded publcally.

[Saqr]

Saqr I think you have mis-understood, the resource is not being privatised, rather a deal is being agreed to allocate what percentage the government will get and what percentage the companies involved get.  I think they (the government) have done reasonably well to review this; the review is ongoing ie not over yet as they are trying to agree the setting up of a smelter.  once this infrastructure is in place, further downstream industry is inevitable.

the gold is a by product of the mine, I'm not sure what the plan is for that.  but I'm certain the government will be extracting its share regardless of which by product.

getting the courts involved will only waste money and lead to more delays.  You have to show first where you think there is a better deal available for Pakistan.  Are there any particular South African companies you have in mind?  Have any of them shown interest in Reko Diq?

The thing is I am uncomfortable of the private sector having reigns over the resources themselves, even if they receive the shorter percentage of the actual product itself.  I think it is a good thing to charter the foreign firm to extract and refine the resources as a state-to-firm contract, but we should not let them own a portion of the nation's resources, even in a sharing agreement.  It would be better to use wealth/land taxation to produce the money necessary to contract a foreign firm to extract and refine the copper, or maybe to acquire their expertise and technology in setting up a similar state-owned enterprise for the same purpose.  IMO the latter approach might even draw from Pakistan's existing technological and industrial capabilities, hence generating employment in other areas beyond mine labour...

[rungroot]

He said if agreement was signed with Balochistan government, TCCP ( Barrick Gold Corporation and Antofagasta Minerals of Chile will export condensate copper and gold through Gwadar port through 682km buried pipeline from Reco Dig to Gwadar at prices quoted on London Stock Exchange. TCCP has so far invested $214 million in Reco Dig project.

HELL NO. taking Pakistani gold out of gawadar port!! WTF is going on? This gold is the property of Pakistan and Pakistan only. It should be only stored in state bank of Pakistan to help Pakistan economy. This gold is not meant for federal reserves. The traitors should be shoot at first sight.

+1.  This deal must NOT go through at any cost.  That gold, that copper belongs to the people of Pakistan, heck it belongs to the Ummah.  PERIOD!

[must7]

QUOTE (HKK @ Sep 28 2010, 10:01 AM)
He said if agreement was signed with Balochistan government, TCCP ( Barrick Gold Corporation and Antofagasta Minerals of Chile will export condensate copper and gold through Gwadar port through 682km buried pipeline from Reco Dig to Gwadar at prices quoted on London Stock Exchange. TCCP has so far invested $214 million in Reco Dig project.

HELL NO. taking Pakistani gold out of gawadar port!! WTF is going on? This gold is the property of Pakistan and Pakistan only. It should be only stored in state bank of Pakistan to help Pakistan economy. This gold is not meant for federal reserves. The traitors should be shoot at first sight.


+1. This deal must NOT go through at any cost. That gold, that copper belongs to the people of Pakistan, heck it belongs to the Ummah. PERIOD!

Not that I too can smell the corruption in the deal ... however, these investors are not going to come on your terms.

Especially the excellent quality of life that we are presenting upfront ... Let alone they only come when they see guarantee to their investment and are not actually Manpower supply company to mine gold & copper for the Populace of Pakistan.

Unfortunately when you don't have any public / private companies who are doing this business than you are at the mercy of these mining colgomates !

Prior to Musharaff, even the Chinese had ran away from Sandak and there was no exploration going on.

remember we are those who have up to this date not even been able to exploit our coal reserves in not so far off areas !

[Tarbela]

[b]QUOTE s.

Especially the excellent quality of life that we are presenting upfront ... Let alone they only come when they see guarantee to their investment and are not actually Manpower supply company to mine gold & copper for the Populace of Pakistan.

Unfortunately when you don't have any public / private companies who are doing this business than you are at the mercy of these mining colgomates !

Prior to Musharaff, even the Chinese had ran away from Sandak and there was no exploration going on.

remember we are those who have up to this date not even been able to exploit our coal reserves in not so far off areas !

Excellent explanation. TRUE.
and YES, to this date Pakistan not even been able to exploit our coal reserves , in not so far off areas !
Pakistan has to carry out this project what ever the case may be, NO if and  buts. We already lost lot of time. these are remote areas,
Pakistani firm if any, will not  invest for next 50 years. by that time three generation will be gone............... Pakistan need this.

[Saqr]

Not that I too can smell the corruption in the deal ... however, these investors are not going to come on your terms.

Especially the excellent quality of life that we are presenting upfront ... Let alone they only come when they see guarantee to their investment and are not actually Manpower supply company to mine gold & copper for the Populace of Pakistan.

Unfortunately when you don't have any public / private companies who are doing this business than you are at the mercy of these mining colgomates !

Prior to Musharaff, even the Chinese had ran away from Sandak and there was no exploration going on.

remember we are those who have up to this date not even been able to exploit our coal reserves in not so far off areas !

If we're at the mercy of something we know is going to harm us, then why do we inch closer instead of addressing the root problems in the country itself?

[haroons222]

Excellent explanation. TRUE.
and YES, to this date Pakistan not even been able to exploit our coal reserves , in not so far off areas !
Pakistan has to carry out this project what ever the case may be, NO if and  buts. We already lost lot of time. these are remote areas,
Pakistani firm if any, will not  invest for next 50 years. by that time three generation will be gone............... Pakistan need this.

What you say is true but what are the reasons for it?Dr. Samar Mubarik is working on the gasification of coal in thar,they asked ADB for 20 MILLION, and it was turned down!!!20 million is peanuts for that project, but MORE ALARMINGLY, why isnt the government providing this small sum???

Also, in a recent interview(a month ago), Dr. Samar claimed that since Pak Atomic energy mines and extracts its own Uranium, and the process of Uranium and Copper mining and extraction is very similar and since we have alot of those scientist nt actively working on new projects, they should be allowed to work on REKO DIG and will provide INDIGENOUS solution to this problem, then why are we even looking elsewhere?Its not just outside companies, even our own govt. isnt putting faith in our own scientist, those with a good track record. Since Dr. samar is retired, i think they way forward is a semi govt. initiative, wih shares floated and a publically traded company, partly owned and managed by the likes of Atomic energy...that way all thegains stay with ppl of Pakistan.

[Wing Commander]

to those having doubts about this project I can only say that there is no other alternative.

dreams of Pakistan's government sorting out such a large project even with foreign help are pretty fanciful considering they haven't done anything with the Thar coal reserves for 20 years.  These projects require not just specialist expertise, and technology.  They require distribution logistics and huge amounts of money.  Billions and billions of dollars to put the infrastructure (rail, shipping and roads) in place.

money and expertise and technology that we don't have.  Foreign miners are only going to bring this to Pakistan if they get something out of it.  You cannot pay the corporates and expect them to hand over technology to Pakistan so it can build a competitor to the miner.  You have to understand the market, the government is absolutely correct to pursue this project.  Its in Pakistan's best interests.  You guys should read a bit about the commodities market I recommend Hot Commodities by Jim Rogers.  You will realise that this is the method for Pakistan to learn from the best miners their technology and methods, then subsequently use them to build our own capacity at a later stage.

[Wing Commander]

oops double post

[Saqr]

to those having doubts about this project I can only say that there is no other alternative.

dreams of Pakistan's government sorting out such a large project even with foreign help are pretty fanciful considering they haven't done anything with the Thar coal reserves for 20 years.  These projects require not just specialist expertise, and technology.  They require distribution logistics and huge amounts of money.  Billions and billions of dollars to put the infrastructure (rail, shipping and roads) in place.

money and expertise and technology that we don't have.  Foreign miners are only going to bring this to Pakistan if they get something out of it.  You cannot pay the corporates and expect them to hand over technology to Pakistan so it can build a competitor to the miner.  You have to understand the market, the government is absolutely correct to pursue this project.  Its in Pakistan's best interests.  You guys should read a bit about the commodities market I recommend Hot Commodities by Jim Rogers.  You will realise that this is the method for Pakistan to learn from the best miners their technology and methods, then subsequently use them to build our own capacity at a later stage.

If foreign mining corporations aren't going to sell their technology and expertise to Pakistan, then we find those who sold the capital to them...I don't think the corporations themselves have a full monopoly over the technology.  They had to charter out and buy off the shelf as well...and if that is a problem, then that means we need to invest further in domestic R&D and production.  There is an alternative, and that is to stop surrendering to the situation and actually address the root causes as to why this country has "no other alternative" to letting foreign corporations ship away the nation's resources.  Because what you're saying is that Pakistan needs good governance, but as a solution it should continue to sell short of its optimal interests.  And I fully agree that there is a void in terms of sincere and innovative governance, but letting the corrupt & indifferent government deal with a self-interested foreign corporation cannot possibly be the solution.

[aziqbal]

can we first make use of the marble, onyx and granite deposits in Pakistan first

indian and chinese marble is so cheap qaulity and they export figure is 25 times that of pakistans

[Wing Commander]

If foreign mining corporations aren't going to sell their technology and expertise to Pakistan, then we find those who sold the capital to them...I don't think the corporations themselves have a full monopoly over the technology.  They had to charter out and buy off the shelf as well...and if that is a problem, then that means we need to invest further in domestic R&D and production.  There is an alternative, and that is to stop surrendering to the situation and actually address the root causes as to why this country has "no other alternative" to letting foreign corporations ship away the nation's resources.  Because what you're saying is that Pakistan needs good governance, but as a solution it should continue to sell short of its optimal interests.  And I fully agree that there is a void in terms of sincere and innovative governance, but letting the corrupt & indifferent government deal with a self-interested foreign corporation cannot possibly be the solution.

Saqr again you are chasing idealism as opposed to realism, where is Pakistan going to find money for this R&D? we don't have money to feed the flood refugees, where are we going to find billions for R&D? do we have a success story of such R&D?  how many other developing nations have attempted this and succeeded?  I can't think of a single one who has done this.  I will tell you a personal story of my family as regards Nationalisation in Pakistan.

in the 1950's my 2 maamus came to England and worked for 10 years saved up money and built an Atta (flour) mill in Jhelum.  In 1971 Bhutto came to power and followed through this very idea of nationalisation and seized the mill.  They put a party member in charge of running it.  He was illiterate.  Couldn't even read the bills coming through the post.  After a few years of creating a mess which to any literate person was inevitable, bhutto was deposed and Zia returned the mill. The mill the state got as a new mill only 1 year old.  It was returned in a shambles, no one had ever bothered to invest money or spare parts in it like most state property.  This mill is emblematic of the way developing countries behave in such situations.  There is no one to take responsibility, no one who will take charge and treat the property like its his own.  The response is "its not mine so what do I care if it falls apart".  This is precisely why nationalisation does not work, never has done.  You have to look at why nationalisation has failed right across the world, why is practically every country in the world moving toward private sector led industries, because they are not perfect but they are the best solution overall.   we need to learn from our history and stop repeating the mistakes of the past.

The Reko Diq deal is the most tried and tested solution to build capability in a developing country.  Your suggestion is a nice vision, but can you point me to an example of a nation that has achieved something like this?  dreams are fine but practical examples are needed to prove the theory.

[Saqr]

Saqr again you are chasing idealism as opposed to realism, where is Pakistan going to find money for this R&D? we don't have money to feed the flood refugees, where are we going to find billions for R&D? do we have a success story of such R&D?  how many other developing nations have attempted this and succeeded?  I can't think of a single one who has done this.

I want to again repeat a couple points.

1.  I didn't say I support total nationalization, I said I support the nationalization of specific natural resources such as fossil fuels, minerals and energy produced from wind, solar, hydro, etc.  Secondly, you identified an actual problem - lack of money for R&D - so can I ask, what is the solution to this problem?  As far as I know, national revenue can be generated from taxes, the public distribution/sale of natural resources, etc, NOT by the one-sided sale of minerals/fossil fuels to foreign corporations, and that too at the hands of an inept and corrupt government.  As far as I see it, you are just telling people to sit down and let others loot them, and discarding those who are calling for actual solutions to the problems you're identifying but failing to address in your arguments/beliefs.  

2.  In any case, Export Oriented Industrialization propelled the growth and advancement of the Asian Tigers, i.e. Japan, South Korea and Taiwan.  Japan and South Korea in particular decided a few decades ago into putting their limited resources (they weren't as great in the 1960s as they are today) into researching and developing technologies that could be of use in consumer goods 20-30 years down the line.  Until those technologies made their mark, they were able ot sustain themselves by pushing for Land Reform, mass revenue collection, substituting imports with domestic alternatives and in turn further strengthening those to be competitive in the global market, etc.  What you're suggesting might have helped Brazil, but it was detrimental to the likes of many countries in Africa and in Latin America (e.g Zaire/Congo, Honduras, Guatemala, etc)...but far better alternatives exist when you critically reflect upon the situation.  

in the 1950's my 2 maamus came to England and worked for 10 years saved up money and built an Atta (flour) mill in Jhelum.  In 1971 Bhutto came to power and followed through this very idea of nationalisation and seized the mill.  They put a party member in charge of running it.  He was illiterate.  Couldn't even read the bills coming through the post.  After a few years of creating a mess which to any literate person was inevitable, bhutto was deposed and Zia returned the mill. The mill the state got as a new mill only 1 year old.  It was returned in a shambles, no one had ever bothered to invest money or spare parts in it like most state property.  This mill is emblematic of the way developing countries behave in such situations.  There is no one to take responsibility, no one who will take charge and treat the property like its his own.  The response is "its not mine so what do I care if it falls apart".  This is precisely why nationalisation does not work, never has done.  You have to look at why nationalisation has failed right across the world, why is practically every country in the world moving toward private sector led industries, because they are not perfect but they are the best solution overall.   we need to learn from our history and stop repeating the mistakes of the past.

Sorry to hear, but I wasn't talking about the nationalization of small/medium businesses, privately owned capital/means of production, etc...I was talking about the state control & management of natural resources!  No one is against entrepreneurs owning factories, mills, etc...but rather there is a problem with individuals/corporations owning the deposits of minerals, fossil-fuels, etc.  This is something you cannot hide under "realism" (which in terms of international-relations actually means 'self-interest'- ironically), this is in fact the theft of the people's resources to a foreign entity.  I understand that Pakistan's situation is miserable, but what you're calling for is not the solution.  In fact, it is a diversion and will not be in favour of anyone's interest but the so-called investors.

The Reko Diq deal is the most tried and tested solution to build capability in a developing country.  Your suggestion is a nice vision, but can you point me to an example of a nation that has achieved something like this?  dreams are fine but practical examples are needed to prove the theory.

I can tell you what Canadian mining corporations did in Latin America...and I think anyone with common sense as to how our current government/establishment operates as well as the track-record of foreign corporations will know that Reko Diq isn't a good idea.  As for my little vision, well part of my examples can easily be found in the past practices of the Asian Tigers (i.e. the policies that led them to their current state), but I don't think the Asian Tigers had many past precedents to follow when they decided to be innovative and creative...

[must7]

can we first make use of the marble, onyx and granite deposits in Pakistan first

indian and chinese marble is so cheap qaulity and they export figure is 25 times that of pakistans

After training & spending on marble export of nearly 5 years, only 1 to 2 marble quary in Balochistan is doing the open cut & extract system for marble, others are extracting by dynamite mining system ! (jeez) ..

Lets hope more enterpreneurs and export options are exploited !

[Tarbela]

See, in Chile how 33 human being ( 69 days alive in the mine ) rescued by only latest technology in a desert. this job site is 49 miles form town. We saw every thing live on TV. So It is in Pakistan's interest to get technology, then they can apply to other minerals  People get trained, also this manpower can be exported
Win - Win position for both parties.

[haroons222]

See, in Chile how 33 human being ( 69 days alive in the mine ) rescued by only latest technology in a desert. this job site is 49 miles form town. We saw every thing live on TV. So It is in Pakistan's interest to get technology, then they can apply to other minerals  People get trained, also this manpower can be exported
Win - Win position for both parties.

^^ We have the brains that can develop and implement this technology...ppl like Dr. Samar have openly said that the Uranium mining and extraction is similar to Copper so our own people should develop this.Down the road, the SIXTH largest country on the planet has to acquire technology, there is no way around it, how long are we going to let ourselves be exploited and used jsut because our politicians have no vision.

[Tarbela]

Balochistan firm on running Reko Diq plan


Nawab Raisani said the Tethyan Copper Company (TCC) had only been given an exploration licence and not a mining permit. he has warned against bypassing his government while issuing the mining licence for the Reko Diq gold and copper project in Chaghi.

Reacting to media reports about secret meetings on the project held by President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and other important leaders with chiefs of 20 multinational companies, he said the gold and copper reserves belonged to the people of Balochistan and the provincial government could not be bypassed in issuing the mining licence.

Talking to this correspondent, Nawab Raisani said the Tethyan Copper Company (TCC) had only been given an exploration licence and not a mining permit.

He said the exploration licence would expire next year and his government had decided that afterwards it would run the project itself.

“We have prepared the PC-1 of the project and it has been approved by the Planning Commission.” He dispelled a perception that the TCC had been given a 30-year mining licence.The chief minister said the Rs1 billion PC-1 was likely to be approved by the Executive Committee of the National Economic Council at its next meeting and after that the Balochistan government would start work on the project.

He said his government had the capability and equipment to run the project and its first priority would be to manage it on its own. “If there is a technical problem we may get help from the market.”

The chief minister said that according to one estimate the gold and copper reserves in the Reko Diq mountains were worth $1 trillion.

Any fruitful opinion.........  
DAWN.COM

[haroons222]

Damn, Raisani might be a drunken idiot, but atleast in this case his provincialism might save our behinds....MIGHT.

http://sify.com/news/pak-s-260-billion-dol...ldrkdfdbcj.html

Pak's 260 billion dollar gold mines being negotiated behind closed doors?
2010-11-03 17:10:00  

Get Instant Cash For GoldAds by Google100% Satisfaction Guaranteed With No Hidden Fees. Get Cash Today! ExpressGoldCash.com/GoldArticle


Corporate bosses and lobbyists of two of the world's largest gold mining groups have reportedly been meeting Pakistani officials including President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani to negotiate decisions regarding the 260 billion dollar gold and copper treasures found in Balochistan.

According to the News, some 20 top corporate bosses have been meeting Zardari, Gilani, Governor State Bank and other officials in Islamabad, pressing them to quickly hand over the Reko Diq area to their companies.

It is believed that the intense behind-the-scene negotiations involve bargaining through middlemen, and some highly bizarre developments.

The developments have reportedly left experts and the rest of the mining world stunned, amazed and confused, the paper said.he report says that the companies want their mining licenses to be issued by Pakistan immediately after their exploration licenses expire soon.

However, there are legal hitches because of which pressure is now being put through the backdoor to get the target.

According to a Washington mining industry expert, if Pakistan gets its fair share from the mines, Balochistan and Pakistan would become richer than any of the present oil producing Gulf countries.

"They have the goods, they need the will," the expert said.

The massive mine deposits at Reko Diq are part of the same geological belt discovered in Afghanistan, which the United States recently claimed was worth a trillion dollars

=========


With a scoop so big, even ) 0.5% kickback amounts to 1.3 bn dollars!!!ONE PROJECT!

This is the reason we need to either develop our own mining industry, team up with Chinese of South africans(wouldbe willing to work at lower rates) or At the very least, aggresively negotiate better rates!This haramis will eat it up,i hope our military is aware of the magnitude of this.

[Bilal]

I would love to see Pakistani corporations like engro or fauji forming a mining company with Baluchistan government to properly utilize the resources.

[haroons222]

I would love to see Pakistani corporations like engro or fauji forming a mining company with Baluchistan government to properly utilize the resources.

Its possible, and i would love to see it but id rather it be a govt./army organized but partially public funded company.The baloch, who are already irritated by the presence of FC might not like that...so present the whole operation as a publically funded company, with long term shares...people investment locked for 5 yrs and then they earn once the mine gets operational.if they promote it as such, it will benefit all Pakistan.Even if half the investment comes from the public sector, it will go a long way!

[Simpleton]

$260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

link

WASHINGTON/ISLAMABAD: Quietly, and below the media radar, some 20 top corporate bosses and lobbyists of two of the world’s largest gold mining groups have been meeting President Asif Zardari, Prime Minister Gilani, Governor State Bank and others in Islamabad throughout last week, pressing them to quickly hand over one of the world’s biggest gold and copper treasures found in Balochistan at Reko Diq, worth over $260 billion, to their companies, and for peanuts.
Before these highly enticing visits of the mining tycoons to clinch the deals, which followed intense behind-the-scene negotiations and bargaining through middle men, some highly bizarre developments have been taking place, leaving experts and the rest of the mining world stunned, amazed and confused.
These companies want that the mining licences should be issued by Pakistan immediately after their exploration licences expire soon. But there are legal hitches and pressure is now being put through the backdoor to get the target.

In recent years, so many games have been played to keep Pakistan’s share in the enormous treasure to a bare minimum, thanks to some greedy politicians and bureaucrats who sold their country’s natural wealth.

A deep study of numerous documents, statements of major players, stakeholders and competitors, interviews with key Pakistani officials, including Chief Minister of Balochistan Nawab Aslam Raisani, the picture that emerges is so murky and mind boggling that any ordinary soul just cannot fathom what is going on. Only a thorough and detailed judicial probe can untangle this mystery.

There is a plethora of documents, which prove that almost everybody involved is trying to deceive everybody else, the real picture is never presented, misleading statements and even contradictory claims have been made in the media, the issue has been kept confused as the real mega deal is maturing fast behind closed doors.

“Because there is no effective investigating agency like NAB operating in the country, it is just the right case for the Supreme Court and the Chief Justice of Pakistan to pick up the issue, put a hold on whatever is going on before any binding contracts and deals are signed, which may cause losses of billions of dollars, yes billions of dollars to Pakistan,” according to a corporate executive involved in the mining industry, based in New York. His company chairman is a reputed former three-term Congressman.

“The Reko Diq scandal is equal to 260 steel mills valued at one billion dollar each or 570 steel mills at $350 million each, the price at which PSM was being sold by PM Shaukat Aziz before it was stopped by the Supreme Court,” shows a calculation.

And according to one Washington mining industry expert, if Pakistan gets its fair share from the gold and copper mines, Balochistan and Pakistan would become richer than any of the present oil producing Gulf countries, many times over. “They have the goods, they need the will,” he said.

The massive mine deposits at Reko Diq in Chagai Balochistan are part of the same geological belt discovered in Afghanistan, which the Pentagon recently claimed was worth one trillion dollars, though President Hamid Karzai claimed it was worth more than 3 trillion dollars.

According to a report in the New York Times on June 13, 2010 by James Risen: “The previously unknown deposits — including huge veins of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and critical industrial metals like lithium — are so big and include so many minerals that are essential to modern industry that Afghanistan could eventually be transformed into one of the most important mining centers in the world, the United States officials believe. An internal Pentagon memo, for example, states that Afghanistan could become the Saudi Arabia of lithium, a key raw material in the manufacture of batteries for laptops and Black Berrys.”  Pakistan, it is estimated in mining circles, has more deposits than Afghanistan, so the enormity of the riches and the cost of the backdoor deals can easily be guessed. “It would be the mother of all the deals and grandfather of all the corruption cases in Pakistan, put together,” according to one expert.

Reading the piles of documents, statements, interviews and legal papers available with The News, the picture that emerges is one of a grand deception, loot and plunder that never happened before on such a scale and the facts, untruths, half-truths, attempts to sabotage, frauds and backdoor bribes, are all documented.

It all started in the Musharraf era but once the massive scale of the stakes involved became apparent to the PPP government, the Raisani/Zardari camp quickly jumped into the fray to renegotiate the deal, behind closed doors.

An Australian mineral exploration firm originally started the exploration and invested some $30 million but in 2006 sold the company to a Canadian and Chilean joint venture for $230 million. The old company was an Australian public company Tethyan Copper Prosperity Limited and the new company was named Tethyan Copper Company (TCC) of Pakistan. A trick game is being played in these cosmetic changes. The Canadians and Chileans, according to publicly declared information to their shareholders and regulators, took 37.5 per cent share each, while Pakistan only had the remaining 25 per cent.
Seeing the vast potential, the TCC soon raised its investment to half a billion dollars. The Pakistani shares belong to the Government of Balochistan and the federal government has no share. Due monies have not been paid to Pakistan or Balochistan treasuries. Two licences (EL-6 and EL-8) for exploration were also given on a 100 per cent ownership basis to these foreign firms, with Pakistan (or Balochistan) having no share at all.

All this was done during the Musharraf regime and bureaucrats played havoc with Pakistani interests. They were trying to emulate President Hamid Karzai’s mining minister, who was caught with $30 million in his Dubai bank and later removed. According to a Washington Post report on Nov 18, 2009: “The Afghan minister of mines accepted a roughly $30 million bribe to award the country’s largest development project to a Chinese mining firm.”
Quoting a US official, the Washington Post said: “The alleged payment to Mohammad Ibrahim Adel was made in Dubai within a month of December 2007, when a big Chinese metallurgical group received the contract for a $2.9 billion project to extract copper from the Aynak deposit in Logar province. Aynak is considered one of the largest unexploited copper deposits in the world.”

The Pakistanis were never told the exact size of the gold and copper deposits that were found by these foreigners. Even until July this year, when a top level delegation of the Canadian company led by Aaron Regent met Prime Minister Gilani in Islamabad, the PM was told that development of this mega project shall generate a revenue of only about $3.5 billion for Government of Pakistan and $4.5 billion for Government of Balochistan over 40 years.

But the Canadian company has to report the real value to its own Canadian government agencies every year and on December 31, 2008 it informed these agencies, and its shareholders, that its 37.5 per cent share in Reko Diq would yield 17 million ounces of gold and 20 billion pounds of copper in measured, indicated and inferred resources. And these deposits have to be mined in 25 years, not as PM of Pakistan was told in 40 years.

At current prices of these two minerals, the total asset of the Canadian, Chilean and Pakistan government would be over $260 billion and according to former Finance Minister Shaukat Tarin, as the prices of gold and copper go up, the total yield could be even $500 billion or may be a trillion.

In 2008 the PPP leaders entered the equation and on Dec 25, 2009 the Government of Balochistan announced the cancellation of the Reko Diq agreement. The decision was taken unanimously by the provincial cabinet, which also means the entire Balochistan Assembly. The cabinet also decided not to extend exploration licence of Reko Diq to the Canadian company and not to issue any mining licence for further work. Chief Minister Nawab Aslam Raisani said on the occasion: “Cancellation of the Reko Diq copper and gold project agreement is a step towards getting control over provincial resources in accordance with the wishes of the people.”

The key statement he made was that he had held consultations with the coalition partners (read PPP and President Zardari) on the matter.
Before Raisani’s decisions in 2008 and 2009, the former chief minister during the Musharraf regime, Jam Yusuf had visited Canada and Chile in early 2007, why no one knows as it can only be guessed what a CM could do in the corporate HQ of a company.

Early this year, Raisani handed over affairs of the project to the Department of Mines and Mineral Development of Balochistan and acquired the services of eminent nuclear scientist Dr Samar Mubarakmand, who was made head of its Board of Governors.

After the July 2010 visit of the Canadian company head to Islamabad, Chief Minister Raisani and Federal Minister of Petroleum and Natural Resources started pressurising the federal and provincial government officials to make an early decision about Reko Diq. Lots of officials were transferred from their posts. In October, in an unprecedented letter, the CM asked President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani to convene a high-level meeting to take the final decision. It seems double games were already underway.

But in Dubai, before the Canadians visited Islamabad to see President Zardari, the CEO of the company announced on October 25, 2010 that Reko Diq project would go ahead as planned despite plans by the provincial government to cancel it. “The project is going ahead and will not be cancelled, we are now in talks with the government and we expect production to start by the end of 2015,” Gerhard Von Borries, Chief Executive of TCC, said on the sidelines of an industry event in Dubai.

One month before the October visit to Islamabad, the company submitted a 100,000 pages feasibility study and gave the cost as $3.3 billion. Experts say this $3.3 billion will be the construction cost to build the mining infrastructure to extract the gold and copper. It took three years to write this report and the Samar Mubarakmand Board was expected to study and give its finding, quickly, may be in just a few days.

But before the Board of Governors headed by Dr Samar could open the report, a new committee was formed on October 1, 2010, excluding most of the board members and perhaps the new committee would now decide everything, in undue haste shortly.

The Canadian company, Barrick Gold, with 29 mines all over the world, is already being accused on the web of some strange activities. These include spills of cyanide, mercury and other heavy metals, police and legalistic repression of critics, threats to water resources on four continents and even food poisoning, as well as rape.

In 2008, under oath in the Balochistan High Court, Barrick Gold stated it had nothing to do with building an airport in the heart of Balochistan for its mining operations. It turned out the airport was actually built but on someone else’s property, a neighbouring exploration company from the US.
However, in its quarterly filings of March 2007, Barrick reported to the Securities Exchange Commission (SEC) in Washington DC that they had spent $30 million to build the airport in Pakistan and other activities. It was the same strip built on the neighbour’s property. The company made a false statement, to either the Balochistan High Court or the SEC. It was potential perjury any way. The US company, Benway Corporation, which is also exploring in the same area, has gone to Balochistan High Court against the intrusion on its land besides reporting the case to the SEC, which is looking whether violations of the US laws on corrupt practices have been violated.

While these confusing details may not make any sense for an ordinary reader, some 1,050 documents filed in the Balochistan High Court show that the TCC has been given unlawfully 508 sq km land on 30-year leases, a fact which CM Raisani has no clue about.

On Oct 28, when TCC executives were meeting the top PPP bosses in Islamabad, Chief Minister Balochistan was also around and he told Ahmad Noorani of The News: “This is impossible. As so far issues have not been finalised, so in no way TCC could be leased such a big land and that too for 30 years”.
He was asked: “Do you know that Reko Diq Exploration Licence No 5 gives TCC 240,000 acres of land and it expires in 2011. That TCC has had this licence from the Department of Mineral and Mining Development and on December 24 2009 you declared by a unanimous cabinet decision not to renew EL 5. But actually TCC had carefully bought and leased all that land from Board of Revenue of Balochistan in 2008 for 10 million dollars for 30 years. Your December 24 decision really had no teeth. TCC owns the land for 30 years. What has changed since December 24, 2009 that you are ready to sign a new agreement within a week or by November 24, 2010?”

The chief minister, who had no idea that a 30-year lease had been granted, responded: “It is not possible that such a big chunk of land is leased to TCC for a period of 30 years.” He asked his personal secretary to recheck and confirm the exact situation of the land lease to the TCC.
He was then asked about the cheques of millions of rupees he had received from the Canadian company. “How many total cheques you received from TCC or their related companies since you were sworn in as the CM. Why he thought they were giving him checks when their case was in the process of a major decision.”

Raisani admitted that a total of two cheques were given to him for Rs 10 million and Rs 8.5 million. “Both cheques were for the chief minister’s relief fund and were deposited in the Government of Balochistan account,” he maintained.

A spokesman of the TCC in Islamabad told The News that a cheque of Rs 8.5 million was given to Chief Minister Balochistan on Aug 25, 2010 for CM’s flood relief fund only and this cheque was for chief minister. But Press Secretary to the Chief Minister, Kamran, claimed that the cheque of Rs8.5 million was given by the TCC in the name of the Government of Balochistan and was deposited in the CM’s account for flood relief. He said this cheque had nothing to do with the files of the TCC in CM’s office.

CM Raisani told The News after the Dec 24, 2009 decision that the TCC had submitted a fresh feasibility study, which was being analysed and so far no final decision had been taken. Despite the statement of his press secretary, the CM asserted that no date could be given when the decision to award this project would be taken.

Asked about the licences, which were totally foreign owned without any share of Pakistan, the CM answered that for exploration licences there was no question of any share of Government of Balochistan. “For exploration, Balochistan will have to pay the TCC,” he argued.

In answer to the most pertinent question asked about the size of the deposits and what Pakistan would get out of the deal, CM Raisani was evasive.
He was asked: “Do you know that the value of Reko Diq is $260 billion as per records of the Canadian company (at today’s gold/copper international market rates), the government and former Finance Minister Shaukat Tarin said its value was $500 billion but in July the President of Barrick Gold came to PM Gilani and said the value was only $50 billion. Why is the government in such a hurry to decide this matter in favour of TCC on the fast track?”

In a surprising statement, Raisani just said the total cost was Rs 8.9 billion, not dollars. He ignored the rest of the question. Asked whether any international consultant was being hired to study the 100,000 pages feasibility studies as this was the first project of its kind in Pakistan, the CM said: “No, we don’t. We don’t need any. We have so many experts in different fields.”

“Is it correct that CM Balochistan is being pressurised by President Zardari to sign a deal with TCC,” he was asked.
His response: “I met President Zardari on this issue on Wednesday (last week).” Asked what the president told him to do, he said it was between President Zardari and him and he would not disclose what Zardari asked him on awarding of the project to the TCC.

But then, as an after thought, he added: “The federal government is not pressurising me on this issue. We are dealing with this ourselves.”
The bottomline is that Pakistan now has to issue mining licences to extract gold and cooper, which is worth billions of dollars and the current mood in Islamabad is to give the foreign companies a huge share. In fact, Pakistan should retain 70 to 80 per cent of these treasures.

In many countries, where agreements had already been signed giving a much bigger share to foreigners, these agreements were revised in the interest of the host country. Ireland, South Africa, Venezuela renegotiated their mining and oil exploration contracts to their benefit.

Anyone interested in making a few million dollars, like the Afghan minister of the Karzai government, which could cost the country billions, must not be allowed to do so. This is the role the Supreme Court, parliament and the media have to play at this crucial time.

[Simpleton]

Reko Diq Gold Mine Is Gone Again?
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Last Updated on Tuesday, 09 November 2010 04:59 Tuesday, 09 November 2010 00:05

Most Pakistanis missed a newspaper advertisement over the weekend that indicates that Pakistan’s elected rulers have no qualms in conducting deals away from public scrutiny—even when there are public complaints about it.

AHMED QURAISHI and BILAL KHAN UMERZAI |

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan—No one noticed when an international mining conglomerate placed a large advert in a Pakistani newspaper over the weekend seeking to recruit a slick operative to help in dealing with the federal Pakistani government for ‘a major project in the mining industry in Pakistan.’

The advertisement was placed by Tethyan Copper Company in Dawn newspaper yesterday, Sunday, Nov. 7. In explaining the new recruitment, the advert said, “[Tethyan], in partnership with Government of Balochistan, is developing a world-class copper-gold mine in Reko Diq, District Chagal of Balochistan.”

The ad sought to invite applicants for the position of Security & Government Affairs Officer based in Islamabad. As the title suggests, the successful candidate is expected to ensure security on the ground in Balochistan, and create and peddle influence to ensure no government department blocks company interests.

It makes sense the large advertisement did not appear in the other large newspaper of the country, The News International, which probably angered the foreign mining company five days ago when it ran an investigative story exposing a possible underhand deal to sell off the national asset in exchange for greasing the palms of a few greedy Pakistani politicians and bureaucrats.

The advertisement signifies one of two things:

1. Either the federal government and the provincial government of Balochistan have renewed Tethyan’s contract;

2. Or Tethyan is now part of a new deal involving fresh entrants

In either case, the new recruitment indicates that Pakistan’s elected government is going ahead with plans to sell off the country’s wealth for peanuts or that it has already done so. The problem is that this is being done without public scrutiny or debate, possibly involving commissions or bribes to ensure the companies get the most out of Pakistani assets with very little going to Pakistani government coffers.

If properly utilized, Reko Diq mines and other natural assets, including rare earths, can easily pull Pakistan out of debt and end foreign aid dependence. But this appears impossible under the country’s failed political system and rusting administrative rules requiring an overhaul.

Mining license for Reko Diq was first sold to foreign companies around 2006 under then President Musharraf and Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz. Reports suggested bribes and commissions ensured that Government of Pakistan get very little out of the deal while foreign companies pocket most of the discovered wealth.

There is not much credible public information available on the details of the license granted by the Musharraf-Aziz government. Online data bank Wikipedia.org is not a reliable source of information but this paragraph is posted on the site, referring to the 2006 deal:

“One of the world's largest copper deposits (and its matrix-associated residual gold) have been found at Reko Diq in the Chagai District of Baluchistan. Reko Diq is a giant mining project in Chaghi . The main license (EL5) is held jointly by the Government of Baluchistan (25%), Antofagasta Minerals (37.5%) and Barrick Gold (37.5%). The deposits at Reko Diq are hoped to be even bigger than those of Sarcheshmeh in Iran and Escondida in Chile (presently, the second and the third largest proven deposits of copper in the world). BHP Billiton, the world's largest copper mining company, began the project in cooperation with the Australian firm Tethyan, entering into a joint venture with the Balochistan government. The potential annual copper production has been estimated to be 900,000 to 2.2 million tons.”

Even if Wikipedia is sometimes unreliable, the above information checks out. Barrick Gold has confirmed it partially on its website.

All of this means that, circa 2006, the Musharraf-Aziz government sold the most lucrative natural asset of Pakistan cheap, way cheap than anything expected anywhere else in the world. The excuse was that Pakistani government didn’t have the skills to exploit this natural resource and so we might as well get something out of it than nothing.

A Pakistani citizen who did not reveal his name posted the following analysis on the Internet explaining in simple terms what the Musharraf-Aziz government had done. He titled his post, ‘Congratulations—Pakistan is being sold out – Thank you Shaukat Aziz!’

But that was during the Musharraf ‘dictatorship’, as detractors refer to that era. The irony is that something very similar or possibly worse is happening under the democratic government of President Asif Zardari and Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani. The Zardari-Gilani government refuses to open the bidding process for Reko Diq mine to public scrutiny.

Five days after the front-page The News story , the federal Pakistani government is yet to utter a single word. There has not even been a denial of corruption allegations or a reassurance that Pakistani interest will be protected.

But what could prove a game spoiler for the little scheme hatched by the Pakistani government and its foreign partners is the judiciary. Following The News story, a Pakistani citizen has petitioned the Supreme Court of Pakistan to scrutinize the Reko Diq arrangements.

[HKK]

Balochistan firm on running Reko Diq plan


Nawab Raisani said the Tethyan Copper Company (TCC) had only been given an exploration licence and not a mining permit. he has warned against bypassing his government while issuing the mining licence for the Reko Diq gold and copper project in Chaghi.

Reacting to media reports about secret meetings on the project held by President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and other important leaders with chiefs of 20 multinational companies, he said the gold and copper reserves belonged to the people of Balochistan and the provincial government could not be bypassed in issuing the mining licence.

Talking to this correspondent, Nawab Raisani said the Tethyan Copper Company (TCC) had only been given an exploration licence and not a mining permit.

He said the exploration licence would expire next year and his government had decided that afterwards it would run the project itself.

“We have prepared the PC-1 of the project and it has been approved by the Planning Commission.” He dispelled a perception that the TCC had been given a 30-year mining licence.The chief minister said the Rs1 billion PC-1 was likely to be approved by the Executive Committee of the National Economic Council at its next meeting and after that the Balochistan government would start work on the project.

He said his government had the capability and equipment to run the project and its first priority would be to manage it on its own. “If there is a technical problem we may get help from the market.”

The chief minister said that according to one estimate the gold and copper reserves in the Reko Diq mountains were worth $1 trillion.

Any fruitful opinion.........  
DAWN.COM

I say give the bloody 100% share to the goverment of Baluchistan, if that what it takes to stop these outsiders casting their greedy eyes on our resources.

If we can build nukes by every hook and crook, mining these natural resources wont be an issue, and if we hit a technical issue due to lack of knowledge or equipment, get ISI to steal it from abroad, just like we did with our nuke program. Under no circumstances, this gold should be allowed to go outside Pakistan.

[Simpleton]

The Pakistanis were never told the exact size of the gold and copper deposits that were found by these foreigners. Even until July this year, when a top level delegation of the Canadian company led by Aaron Regent met Prime Minister Gilani in Islamabad, the PM was told that development of this mega project shall generate a revenue of only about $3.5 billion for Government of Pakistan and $4.5 billion for Government of Balochistan over 40 years.

“One of the world's largest copper deposits (and its matrix-associated residual gold) have been found at Reko Diq in the Chagai District of Baluchistan. Reko Diq is a giant mining project in Chaghi .

We exploded/tested our nukes at Chagi, so that would imply detailed geological studies would ought to have been conducted prior to site selection, if this logic holds any water, then the above points in quotations don't add up.  I mean we can keep the international community running in circles trying to find out info about our nuke program right under their noses--yet can't come up with geological data near the test site to indicate the vein of minerals so big that it goes all the way diagonally though Afghanistan and Pakistan? Hmm.  Points such as this (as well as the recent dismal performance of PN's recovery efforts from relatively shallow depths--while the same PN out-foxed India in extending the EEC out into the sea) shake my confidence in Pakistani mil/civilian establishments for showing their apparent incompetence for all the world to see.

[Simpleton]

Firm says ready to address Balochistan’s concern
From the Newspaper
(11 hours ago) Today

QUETTA: Chief of the Tethyan Copper Company Pakistan (Pvt) Limited has said his company is aware of the reservations expressed by the Balochistan government over the multi-billion-dollar Reko Diq gold and copper project and is ready to address them.

“We submitted a feasibility report about the project in August this year and are still waiting for a response from the government,” TCC Chief Executive Officer Gerhard Von Boris said at a press conference here on Friday.

He said the provincial government would have a permanent member in the board of directors of the company and access to financial details.

Mr Boris said that TCC had invested $450 million and drilled 300,000 metres over the past four years in Reko Diq, Chagai district, for preparing the feasibility study.

“More than 50 per cent of free cash flow will go to the federal and Balochistan governments in the form of royalty, taxes and proportionally distributed profits,” he added. He said that prices of gold and copper were highly volatile and for evaluation of such a project average long-term prices were determined by independent analysis.

Mr Boris said that 90 per cent jobs had been earmarked for local people; 11,500 jobs would be provided during construction work. Besides, 2,500 locals would be given permanent jobs.

He said that a separate village with all facilities would be set up for employees.

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