148 replies to this topic

[sfhussain]

Its for you to understand that PA is not a rag tag bunch of irregulars like Hezbollah, thus both cannot be compared.

I made no such comparison. That is why I suggested the following: "The addition would be a Asymetric Force to resist and inflict massive casualities in the first 2 months of the war. This would be fighting a defensive war and trapping Indian army repeatedly and forcing them to expend their high tech weaponry while saving our conventional forces.". I would be an honor to be part of this Pakistani "rag tag" force to humiliate the Hindu dogs. Hezb, TTP and Afghan talibans are doing it - so pakistanis can do it.

Kargil was not a full fledge war to start with. It had an objective, cut Indian Road supply route towards Siachen, all the sub-objectives were related to Siachen. PAF wasnt involved and there was no intention to use air support from PAF also.There wasnt any other sector involved and all the enemy's resources could be concentrated in one sector, which eventually happened. A full fledge war is another story.

Yes I know those details. Theend result was - begging for a ceasefire and negotiations. We retreated and Indians bombed our Boys. Why are we expecting that our enemy will negotiate after 2-3 weeks and "grant' us a ceasefire. Why dont we learn and grow up.

[GreenBeret]

I made no such comparison. That is why I suggested the following: "The addition would be a Asymetric Force to resist and inflict massive casualities in the first 2 months of the war. This would be fighting a defensive war and trapping Indian army repeatedly and forcing them to expend their high tech weaponry while saving our conventional forces.". I would be an honor to be part of this Pakistani "rag tag" force to humiliate the Hindu dogs. Hezb, TTP and Afghan talibans are doing it - so pakistanis can do it.

2 months of war is not possible to start with. International community will act before that.

The forces u have mentioned dont have regular forces to defend the country.
Hizbullah is defending a country with negligible Regular forces, so are Afghans.TTP is another story and is facing defeat and retreat.

Pakistan has regular armed forces, unlike the above mentioned.
Pakistan/Pakistan Army will not create such a force because such a force cannot make a thrust into enemy territory to start with and operate there.

In own territory, Pakistan Army uses Para Military forces like National Guard (composed of Janbaz force and Mujahid Force). These are light infantry battalions tasked with defending less sensitive areas or stop the enemy from flanking the Pakistani regulars. They are equipped with light weapons only.
Pakistan will never equip a rag-tag force with advanced weaponary, as the Army is trained and equipped with heavy weapons and missiles only and will not sensitive information of such weapons leak out through to a rag tag force.

However, if such a force exists in own territory,the enemy will either by-pass areas occupied by such a force and reach sensitive objectives or if they are defending such targets, India will bomb the hell out of them and they will not be able to counter with heavy weapons or India will always flank such a force using mechanized forces and take them out easily.

Anyways, your idea will never materialize until the Regular PA,PAF and PN is available to defend the country. So such a rag tag force will never exist and is out of question.There is no use talking about a rag tag force.

Yes I know those details. Theend result was - begging for a ceasefire and negotiations. We retreated and Indians bombed our Boys. Why are we expecting that our enemy will negotiate after 2-3 weeks and "grant' us a ceasefire. Why dont we learn and grow up.

Again,Kargil war was not a proper war.
Read Offensive-Defensive plan  of PA again to answer your querry.

[sfhussain]

2 months of war is not possible to start with. International community will act before that.

International community cannot do squat if India does not want them - just like Israel. If Pakistan is winning/India is loosing then we will comply with 'international community" - we are stupid.

I am sorry to say - the mentality to fight and beg for ceasefire/negotiations is fool's paradise. If kargill was not real war - the kargill Planners were dam fools. For Indians it was war. some definitions of war for your reference:

1. A condition of belligerency to be maintained by physical force.
2. A contest between nations or states, carried on by force, whether for defence, for revenging insults and redressing wrongs, for the extension of commerce, for the acquisition of territory, for obtaining and establishing the superiority and dominion of one over the other, or for any other purpose.
3. To make war; to invade or attack a state or nation with force of arms; to carry on hostilities; to be in a state by violence.

By any definition Kargill was a War.

[faizan khaliq]

A Morale booster is what a soldier needs to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. Maybe you should attend a "Barra Khana" of some Battalion or listen to the words of a commander after some excercise etc

India will be more than welcome to use its Strike Corps against dug-in Pakistani Army, whose command knows they should not lose this trump card which will be a major factor in achieving victory over India. Mechanized forces can be switched around for counter attacks or flanking the attacking Indian forces where as the accompanying Infantry division will hold the area, inviting more Indian Forces in the region.
Pakistani Offensive cannot run out of gas quickly because I have already explained how Offenses are planned keeping such factors in mind and the combat radius of our armoured units.

1.We can attack on the flanks of Indian penetration  very good but once we are attacking on narrow front and go 50-60 kilometers how can you deny the Indians the same capability.
2.second scenario is counter penetration well that has to be at such a massive scale that it can off balance the enemy and threaten her very existence than it can be a success i.e may be General Sharon counter crossing of Suez but is it possible to pull this kind of stuff in indo pak scenario
3,Maximum  we can hope that too being very optimistic is operation ''Barbrossa  '' 1942 by Germans against Russia but what happened to it and lets keep nuclear option out.
4. last but not the least moral in unit lines and moral battle field have little bit of difference
5.Next war we might not get a chance like 65 when we launched our armour div at Khem karan and then managed to pull out and bring its elements in sialkot.Air and missiles will destroy railway structures in first few days.
6.Long time ago we discussed about armour being not a very effective offensive weapons may be we need to dig out that

[GreenBeret]

International community cannot do squat if India does not want them - just like Israel. If Pakistan is winning/India is loosing then we will comply with 'international community" - we are stupid.

I am sorry to say - the mentality to fight and beg for ceasefire/negotiations is fool's paradise. If kargill was not real war - the kargill Planners were dam fools. For Indians it was war. some definitions of war for your reference:

1. A condition of belligerency to be maintained by physical force.
2. A contest between nations or states, carried on by force, whether for defence, for revenging insults and redressing wrongs, for the extension of commerce, for the acquisition of territory, for obtaining and establishing the superiority and dominion of one over the other, or for any other purpose.
3. To make war; to invade or attack a state or nation with force of arms; to carry on hostilities; to be in a state by violence.

By any definition Kargill was a War.

India is not Israel, and Indian Army is not Israeli Army. India has succumbed to international pressure in all previous scenarios. India could have opened on all fronts in Kargil war, in 2001/2, after Mumbai attacks even. This is the reality.

Explain, what is winning for Pakistan?
capturing territory?
meeting some strategic goal?
Liberating Kashmir / Bangladesh?

Kargil planning is still cricticized because a few sennior officers were involved, even some high military officers from GHQ were not aware and PAF was also kept in dark. Kargil wasnt a proper war, it was certainly a war but this topic contains involvement of PAF, PN and also war of any sort on any front.
Rann of Kutch war was also a war limited to southern sector only in early 1965.
A conflict related in one sector with minimum use of force and strength and a full fledge war using all force, resources and strength are completely different.

[sfhussain]

Explain, what is winning for Pakistan?

Very good question! I will quote sun szu: ( In short you destroy the enemy's ability to wage war - definition posted earlier)

War BY STRATAGEM

1. Sun Tzu said:  In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good.  So, too, it is better to recapture an army entire than to destroy it, to capture a regiment, a detachment or a company entire than to destroy them.
2. Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
3. Thus the highest form of generalship is to balk the enemy's plans; the next best is to prevent the junction of the enemy's forces; the next in order is to attack the enemy's army in the field; and the worst policy of all is to besiege walled cities.

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.  If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

We assume with India - If I were an Indian - I would let Pakistan fight for 4-6 weeks then let them beg for ceasefire/negotiations. Our wars (you may disagree).
1948 - durations months - India begged for cease fire and agreed to a plebiscite.
1965 - duration 3 weeks - ceasefire/negotiations - tashkant declaration by Pres Ayub - resulted in his Ouster.
1971 - 4 weeks preceded by a unconventional warfare by India using - rag tag mukti bahini - military and political diaster - ceasefire/negotiations - Simla accord - forever tied to a bilateral regime for problems with India.
1998 - kargill - 10 weeks - military victory - negotiations for ceasefire (nawaz going begging) - diplomatic diaster - unconditional withdrawl by Pakistan without benefit of ceasefire.
20XX - expected - you expect a 3 week adventure and YOU ARE ASSUMING that India will accept a ceasefire/negotiations with Pakistan sitting on tons of Indian territory - this would only be possible if the Indian military is completely destroyed. Not withstanding that it would be a very bad assumption to make

[Felicius]

Explain, what is winning for Pakistan?
Liberating Kashmir / Bangladesh?

Option A - Kashmir.
For Pakistan Military, that is winning the war, don't ask this question here, the answer here is the fantasy Invading the whole of India.

3. India's offensive capabilities have increased, and a stand and deliver approach doctrine used in the 1965 and 1971 wars can lead to serious Indian penetration of Pakistani territory, whereas the Pakistani army may not be able to maneuver to counter the threat. There is a chance that counterattacking formations would then be destroyed piecemeal by numerically superior Indian forces. Counterattacking requires surprise as well as 3:1 numerical superiority.

That is why I have always felt that we need long haul, twin engine jets, besides the stand and deliver missiles.
Long haul's also have larger wing spans, meaning at-least 2 extra hard points, more fuel, hence less chances of loosing the few Air Refuellers.
Element of surprise is also for countries in the Middle East, hence Israel will not be immune any longer.

[sfhussain]

Option A - Kashmir. - For Pakistan Military, that is winning the war

If you do not destroy the Indian military - the liberation will be temporary - hoping/begging for ceasefire would be wishful thinking. If this is fantasy then I have nothing more to add.

[faizan khaliq]

I think we are talking the same thing and that is area grabbing will be useless without destroying Indian forces we have to seek their destruction either by attack or by defense,
1<If we do static defense which is normal our forces will be off balanced  and destroyed peace meal
2.If we do mobile defense then we don,t have enough depth carry maneuvers
3,The best can be combination of all i.e engage enemy forces deep in their territory through insurgencies, force them to fight on two fronts in combination with asymmetric warfare, It will be no peace no war kind of situation
4.we need smaller army and larger and powerful air force   ,army has to be highly mobile with helicopters and gunships  to destroy enemy through fire power

[sfhussain]

I am glad some members are getting my point.  

[Felicius]

If you do not destroy the Indian military - the liberation will be temporary - hoping/begging for ceasefire would be wishful thinking. If this is fantasy then I have nothing more to add.

Hope - Achieving victory over the Talibans.
Fantasy - Destroying the 2nd largest army.

Solution for now is to make our defences so strong, take over Kashmir, and just sit tight and defend it.
Survive until UN and NATO forces a cease fire, be it weeks, months, or over a year.

If we cannot survive over a year in an all-out war, then how can we take on such a huge military force?

[Aliph Ahmed]

Best strategy for Pakistan should be:

A Pre emptive strike on the Israeli model and then hold/bunkering down that area to defend while keeping the offensive pieces off any hostility. Employ a lot of Tows and Baktar Shikans, anzas and area denial cluster bombs in order to ward off repeated Indian offensive attacks substantially attiring their equipment. Once the Indian attacking forces reduce to numbers of our desired figure, we can go on an all out offensive employing the untill now kept away offensive pieces.

and yes, a ceasefire should never be considered/optioned in the planning.  

[sfhussain]

Fantasy - Destroying the 2nd largest army.

World's biggest armies have been destroyed including 2nd biggest. Make your fastasy into reality. It is a thought. hoping/begging even for a ceasefire from a mortal enemy is stupid, and basing the defence of Pakistan on such an asumption is .......

[Aliph Ahmed]

^^^^

As someone wise has perfectly put it:

If you can dream it then it is probable and if it is probable then it is achievable.

I guess we are not just dreaming big enough "yet".......  

[Felicius]

World's biggest armies have been destroyed including 2nd biggest. Make your fastasy into reality. It is a thought. hoping/begging even for a ceasefire from a mortal enemy is stupid, and basing the defence of Pakistan on such an asumption is .......

If you can explain it to me logically, not jazbaat inundated, I will understand.
Debates here, from logic to fantasy, is diverted in a heartbeat.
Pucho, tau jawaab milta hai, Allah will, or Taliban will help us, or Maoist will destry India for us, and the essence of the debate is lost after.

Taking over, I can understand.
App bus itna sumjhao mujhey, that after we occupy, how do we retain our position on Kashmir for long periods, and how do we continually thwart India's attempt to occupy other parts of Pakistan.

They will not sit still, that's a given.
You say, that we will hope big, and destroy their entire military.
How do we go about doing that?

I know other's have done it, my question is how will we do it?

[sfhussain]

The focus is Strategy not  Tactics:

Reprocing from earlier posts: First two months fight like hezbollah then switch to offensive:

The addition would be a Asymetric Force to resist and inflict massive casualities in the first 2 months of the war. This would be fighting a defensive war and trapping Indian army repeatedly and forcing them to expend their high tech weaponry while saving our conventional forces. This would be similar startegy to hezbollah/TTP have or are doing with exception being stopping the Hindu Dogs at and in the cities. After sufficient degradation has been inflicted on the enemy - then cut loose the coventional forces on India with massive infiltration of unconventional forces into India. All of the above would have to be done on a national war footing. even if India is not totally destroyed - the dogs would never again raise their heads in the neighbourhood.

[Felicius]

Reprocing from earlier posts: First two months fight like hezbollah then switch to offensive:

And how do we defend, their offensive?
Let's not assume they will sit still while we go about doing all that.

How will we stop them from marching 700 tanks from Lahore to Islamabad at the same time, while trying to defend Karachi Port, staying put in Kashmir, periodic night invasions to bomb bases, and march through Thar?

Fight like Hizbullah merey bhai is not the solution.
Hizbullah were all defensive, they never occupied any parts of Israel.
They didn't stop Israelis at all, they just sustained destruction for over a month until Israel had no other targets left to destroy.

Say, we manage to take over Kashmir, now we are faced with the challenge to retain that position and defend it.
Hizbullah like will be to let them bomb the crap out of us, take over other parts of Pakistan, while we sit tight on Kashmir.

We are a lot superior and smarter than rag tag Hizbullah, we could take on Israel in-fact, even India could take on Israel.
India has number's, and they are a lot lot lot superior, stronger and smarter than Hizbullah.
India, I believe, is a force stronger than Israel (so are we), Pakistan-India war is a different game on a different platform totally.

Comparison would be England Vs France, taking over 100% of India is a fantasy today.
Likewise, it's a fantasy for Indians as well, they can't take over Pakistan either.

[faizan khaliq]

Hizbullah did defeat Israeli army and they could not advance just did bombing but still it smart of them
700 hundred tanks can be stopped by two hundred tanks defenders need to match 1:3 ratio we are much more than that
but rest assure Indians will never ever dare to big offensive not for nukes but for the fact that their offensive will fail against determined defender on every sector may be thar or Punjab or karachi
Imagine Indians doing beach landing in Karachi and MQM  is resisting guided and aided by Army one can imagine the fate of that Indian division
Number do count but better general ship is a decisive factor
Mullah omar has nothing but he has outlasted how many allied commander ? and is on Path of sure victory

[Felicius]

Let's keep Mullah Omar, Taliban, or even the Maoists out of it.
Neither is PA a rag tag unit that they'll require MQM to fight an insurgency war for them, we won't be occupied that a resistance will be required either.

How is Pakistan Army going to neutralize the Indian Military 100%?

[faizan khaliq]

Let's keep Mullah Omar, Taliban, or even the Maoists out of it.
Neither is PA a rag tag unit that they'll require MQM to fight an insurgency war for them, we won't be occupied that a resistance will be required either.

How is Pakistan Army going to neutralize the Indian Military 100%?

we are confusing the war in built up area with insurgency in my mind it was Stalingrad
second point about Mullah Omer well he knows his enemy and he knows his capabilities so planed a war strategy which suits him  and it is working
war is combination of arms and politics  in World war one Lowrance of Arabia alone was worth many divisions so basically it can not be a text book style phenomena
Let us take the case of Punjab
1.Villages consist of mostly 100 to 200 houses
2.Located higher than surrounding areas
3.Generally there distance from each other   is from 1000 to 5000 meters well with in the range of new anti tank missiles
4.now a company will be required to turn such a village in a strong point and attacker might need at least 6 to 9 company to clear it
5.equation goes wrong here we don,t have these many infantry companies  suppose we have village youth who,s population is around 300 to 400 equipped with rifles and a detachment of 10 soldiers with anti tank missiles , they will do the same job what a 100 regular troops can do
6.Indian Army will bog down with in first 10 kilometers of border
7.You can argue that Indian air force can reduce the village to rubble sure they can but a trained and determined defender    has many solutions to it and  in rubble defender is more strong remember qila-e jangi where it took US air force and Northern alliance sometime to take the compound

[sfhussain]

We cant seem to move from a mindset of fight for a few weeks and then beg for ceasefire/negotiations. We have a massive failure of Imagination - only way to rectify this problem is a war lasting more than six months at least - when ceasefire is not provided on the plate and India asks for what establishment cannot give.

faizan very well put - strategy over tactics.

[safdar]

^^Yes but doesn’t that actually change the whole purpose of the PAK army? isn’t the PAK army a defensive force, to repel any invasion instead of invading outside territories. Inorder to repel an attack you will require tactics not a grand strategy because its impossible to guess with 100% accuracy the enemies attack patterns and for that one would require shifting tactics on a daily basis in a war.

From my earlier posts in this thread you can clearly see that I have actually pre-empt India and have attacked inside Indian territories. I understand what you are saying and that is the right way to deal with the Indian army to eliminate it utterly, for that we need a grand strategy and turn PAK army into a invading force and attack Indian army inside india when its least expecting it.

One draw back to that is that We risk a nuclear war if PAK or India pre-empt each other on a large scale (lets just leave nukes out for now). The problem with re-emptive strikes is due to the close proximity of the two countries, its virtually impossible to mobilise you’re heavy infantry/mechanised divisions without alerting the opponent and youre left with only a window of a few hour max before the opponent counter attacks. What we need then is a strategy to thrust our air force navy and army simultaneously at India, for that we need a rapid deployment force (like the Americans!) and then think of a strategy of how to use that force. But the reality is we don’t have a heavy mechanised/airforce/ navy rapid deployment force to invade India we only have enough resources to keep India within its own boarders before we hit the nuke switch.

I am on youre level of thinking that we need a strategy for the next war with india just like they have had a strategy in war with Pakistan every time and that is to attack within the opponents territory and seize ground, it has always been Pakistani punjab and we have to think on the same level and take indian punjab.

[Felicius]

We cant seem to move from a mindset of fight for a few weeks and then beg for ceasefire/negotiations. We have a massive failure of Imagination - only way to rectify this problem is a war lasting more than six months at least - when ceasefire is not provided on the plate and India asks for what establishment cannot give.

You're still not getting it, it's not about the mindset.
1. We don't have the financial resources to go on for that long a period.
2. India is way stronger and larger than Israel, we don't have the equipment and manpower to invade India 100%.

Likewise, India can't take on Pakistan either, and sustain it.

Faizan, defend comes later, please explain how are we going to invade India 100% ?

[faizan khaliq]

You're still not getting it, it's not about the mindset.
1. We don't have the financial resources to go on for that long a period.
2. India is way stronger and larger than Israel, we don't have the equipment and manpower to invade India 100%.

Likewise, India can't take on Pakistan either, and sustain it.

Faizan, defend comes later, please explain how are we going to invade India 100% ?

In southern sector known Indian strength                            
3xarmour division i.e 2 divisions and three brigades                  
3 RAPID divisions
6 infantry divsions
Deployed divisions are
one at ganganagar, one around jaisalmir and one in chorsector
Bhopal, bhatinda , and mathura corps are offensive corps but are likely to be deployed
Bhopal corps will be concentrated in general area 150 kilometers northwest of Ahmadabad
Mathura corps around Bikaner little north of it
Bhatinda corps might be a reserve to lend weight to any of the corps attack but most expected concentration will be east of Abohar
Now what we have against this heavy concentration, we can over run holding formations in no time and engage these offensive formations to Preempt
it can be one option let us discuss this and then we will talk about second option
it is all pure speculation

[sfhussain]

1. We don't have the financial resources to go on for that long a period.

With that comment - we are making progress. lets say the resources for PA in conventional war strategy (present strategy) is for 6 weeks. My fundamental issue is what happens after that - ceasefire/negotiations?? like kargill if India does not agree to ceasefire then what?? The present war strategy is not sustainable.

Fight for 6 weeks then are we going to beg for ceasefire and negotiations?? Our mortal enemy is going to give us the ceasefire??

TTP, Agh Taliban, hezbollah has a fraction of the resources Pakistan has but thay have done an effective job. What I am suggesting that we mix asymetric warfare with conventional and initially depend more on the asymetric to let India expend the resources.

[Felicius]

With that comment - we are making progress. lets say the resources for PA in conventional war strategy (present strategy) is for 6 weeks. My fundamental issue is what happens after that - ceasefire/negotiations?? like kargill if India does not agree to ceasefire then what?? The present war strategy is not sustainable.

Fight for 6 weeks then are we going to beg for ceasefire and negotiations?? Our mortal enemy is going to give us the ceasefire??

TTP, Agh Taliban, hezbollah has a fraction of the resources Pakistan has but thay have done an effective job. What I am suggesting that we mix asymetric warfare with conventional and initially depend more on the asymetric to let India expend the resources.

That would be ideal, if we have Kashmir as a target only, perhaps we'll actually win back Kashmir and the war this time.
However, this time, you're targetting the whole of India, including their allies, it's a bit of a fantasy at this point merey bhai, we don't have the manpower, equipment, or the resources to first do an invasion, that could be successfull in say 6 months, and then trying to defend those positions for another 1 year.

[sfhussain]

However, this time, you're targetting the whole of India, including their allies

Indian capacity to wage the conventional war is 45-60 days (6-8 weeks), with their allies thay could stretch it out by another 6 weeks.

Pakistan with China's support could do the same and better as we share boundaries.

Brother what happens if no ceasefier after 4-6 weeks - then we face the same choice minus our offensive capability. What I an saying is save the offensive capacity and use it after 60? days when India has exhausted its capacity.

[Felicius]

Brother what happens if no ceasefier after 4-6 weeks - then we face the same choice minus our offensive capability. What I an saying is save the offensive capacity and use it after 60? days when India has exhausted its capacity.

If we are going to do the offensive later, then what are we defending first?
The discussion was occupying India and defeating their entire military.
If we don't go on offensive first, then there is no war, there is nothing there to defend either.
If we go on offensive first, then we won't have much strength to defend after 60 days.

That's why I'm saying, step by step, first target Kashmir, occupy it and defend, defend, and defend.
Wait until India is exhausted, and there is status quo on Kashmir.

Leave invasion of India to the future - Ghazwa-e-Hind.

[GreenBeret]

The focus is Strategy not  Tactics:

I read your,faizan and shehz posts, there is no use going around in circles.

A Military Strategist would never agree with such a strategy.I suggest you discuss it with some army officer/contacts for discussion sake.lets see how they respond to it. Anyways, this is simply like living in fantasy and ignoring facts.

[GreenBeret]

That is why I have always felt that we need long haul, twin engine jets, besides the stand and deliver missiles.
Long haul's also have larger wing spans, meaning at-least 2 extra hard points, more fuel, hence less chances of loosing the few Air Refuellers.
Element of surprise is also for countries in the Middle East, hence Israel will not be immune any longer.

Yes yes, Your love for J-11's shines in majority of your posts :) Mind giving the non-piloted cruise missiles a chance to strike at long hauls.

[faizan khaliq]

I read your,faizan and shehz posts, there is no use going around in circles.

A Military Strategist would never agree with such a strategy.I suggest you discuss it with some army officer/contacts for discussion sake.lets see how they respond to it. Anyways, this is simply like living in fantasy and ignoring facts.

What you are suggesting is that since it is impossible we should never think of it but my problem is to me it very much possible.
let us suppose we go on offensive and get badly mauled our armour divisions  are wiped out and our air force is struggling so even in that scenario  who could say Pakistan is finished I don,t think so we have nukes to fall back and has lot of built up area to carry on war.
A well led armour division can do wonders with the help of Allah.
In the scenario of my last post imagine if we defeat these three corps a dashing commander might not give time to indians to regroup and it will be all over with in weeks it has happened so many times  though for this kind of strategy we need lot of organizational changes along with some more equipment.
I agee with Shez that we need fighters with longer endurance  for systematic interdiction to kill their war stamina to Zero.
Guys It is very much possible just be bold in execution and train hard I am sure Pakistan army must be having plans calculated down to Zero level

[Caesar]

please explain how are we going to invade India 100% ?

Surprise Nuclear attack with at least 100-nuclear warheads covering all of india, including sea. Ideally if Pak has Hydrogen bombs then use them as well. This will then be followed by full scale ground invasion.

[Felicius]

Surprise Nuclear attack with at least 100-nuclear warheads covering all of india, including sea. Ideally if Pak has Hydrogen bombs then use them as well. This will then be followed by full scale ground invasion.

After 100 Nukes, you'll be the only volunteer to walk in that territory, even the generals won't follow you :)

Mind giving the non-piloted cruise missiles a chance to strike at long hauls.

You yourself agreed that Stand and Deliver method is not affective enough.
I agreed that we should also include long haul twins to supplement the stand and deliver methods, keep the element of surprise in our favour, that too was your suggestion.

Agay bol meri jaan, aur kia khidmat karoo-n?

[sfhussain]

I leave to to Almighty - Allah knows best.

[faizan khaliq]

I think first target would be Indiman Nicobar Islands so with what we will hit the target.

[Aliph Ahmed]

Another thing if you guys notice as per this article: Link

Most of the richer India is closer to Pakistani border.      

[haroons222]

So i dont have much idea but from what i see, the biggest threat to our army, eventual advance and freeing up Kashmir istheir airfoce.Is it possible to knock out a few bases at the start of the war, including sending in few special units behind enemy lines, or using local assets to attack their airbases before their planes take off, esp. mig29,su-30s?
is there a map of the bases they have, the fighters at those airfields ?

[faizan khaliq]

Air power alone can,t do much to dug down infantry.US air force was even unable to dislodge the Iraqi republican guards from around Bhaghda .The second example is of Kundus Bend near Mazar-e sharif  where US air force was unable to subdue Pakistani Taliban of Sufi Muhammad, Those guys held on against US air raids and Northern Alliance ground assault.We have air parity

[Felicius]

So i dont have much idea but from what i see, the biggest threat to our army, eventual advance and freeing up Kashmir istheir airfoce.Is it possible to knock out a few bases at the start of the war, including sending in few special units behind enemy lines, or using local assets to attack their airbases before their planes take off, esp. mig29,su-30s?
is there a map of the bases they have, the fighters at those airfields ?

It's their naval power as well.
They can keep us busy if we ignore our Navy and keep investing on the Air Force only.

[haroons222]

It's their naval power as well.
They can keep us busy if we ignore our Navy and keep investing on the Air Force only.

the reason i say this is because this war has to finish soon.the strike has to be very quick, major and so crippling that enemy has to throw up his hand before it even think of launching nukes.If the strikes are quick, we capture a good amount of area in a short period of time, disable most of their bases, then they can be forced to sign a peace agreement, they would know that even if they launch, we can push further into their territory and all their military wud be at our mercy. And the scenario i am talking abt means that most of their air bases are taken out, so their infantry has no cover to counter our advancing infantry, and our airforce is freed up to attack their navy and also to decimate their infantry.