148 replies to this topic

[Felicius]

the reason i say this is because this war has to finish soon.the strike has to be very quick, major and so crippling that enemy has to throw up his hand before it even think of launching nukes.If the strikes are quick, we capture a good amount of area in a short period of time, disable most of their bases, then they can be forced to sign a peace agreement, they would know that even if they launch, we can push further into their territory and all their military wud be at our mercy. And the scenario i am talking abt means that most of their air bases are taken out, so their infantry has no cover to counter our advancing infantry, and our airforce is freed up to attack their navy and also to decimate their infantry.

Why try to reinvent the wheel yaar.
US tried the same in Vietnam, then Iraq, then again Afghanistan, a super power against a country weaker than the weakest, just think about it.
India - Pakistan are pretty much at par, it's not doable.

[faizan khaliq]

First and foremost thing is that we are assuming that we have a choice to avoid the war unfortunately we have none our rivers are at the mercy of Indians and internally every agency of the world is doing their best to incite insurgency everywhere so larna tow paray ga whether we like it or not question is how to go about it .well right now we are defending BUT REST ASSURE WE ARE AT WAR'' very soon we will start our asymmetric offensive ,geography has to change when elephant falls it takes a  lot along

[Felicius]

What are the chances it won't work?
The answer you come up with, is the same figure, that we may get occupied and our next generation will be saluting bhangee flag.
Pakistan Military has a retreat plan, plan b, etc., we don't do stuff like guerillas.
Unless we're absolutely sure, we won't go in, sentiments aside.

For water, we need to take Kashmir back, that is still doable.

[faizan khaliq]

I never said we will be occupied by bhangees  we can few border towns but  not country as whole rather after  American ouster from Afghanistan it is Bhangee Army which will be under under pressure.The concept of limited war in kashmir is real but when war starts it takes it own course so to plan for lesser than total war will be a mistake .It is very much possible that State of India might disintegrate because  her socio political contradictions from within and Pakistan becomes biggest power in the region

[blueazure]

delted

[Felicius]

I never said we will be occupied by bhangees  we can few border towns but  not country as whole

What are the chances that "our" unplanned invasion of India won't boomerang?
We don't experiment to see if our border town will become part of India, we're not idiots.
Retreat will be if we feel it was a mistake, then pull back before any town is occupied by them.

When you attempt a full scale invasion out there to destroy their entire military, and use Nukes (as some of you heartily suggested), then where is the plan-B or retreat fit in, you have left no room for it!
Just for a few 'emotional strategists' at PDF, Pakistan Army can't risk Lahori's and Towns in Thar saluting to Indian flags in their school, suggestions and strategies have to be reasonable and derrived from the brain, not the heart.

It is very much possible that State of India might disintegrate because  her socio political contradictions from within and Pakistan becomes biggest power in the region

It is very much possible, what are the probabilities for that?
However, if your prediction is in the next 5 years, I can't agree.

[sfhussain]

Just for a few 'emotional strategists' at PDF, Pakistan Army can't risk Lahori's and Towns in Thar saluting to Indian flags

This has entered the emotional phase. Pakistanis that i know of - dont salute bhangees - the Pakistanis I know will kill them.

faizan we take up this discussion in better weather conditions.

[Felicius]

Once occupied, then they will be merey bhai, why even risk border towns.

[sfhussain]

Once occupied, then they will be merey bhai, why even risk border towns.

Pakistan's conventional fighting capacity is 30-45 days - what happens if India does not grant a ceasefire after 30 days. They did not grant it during Kargill.

[faizan khaliq]

we are ignoring one  fact that we can not attack all along the front if we attack in one sectors Indian will attack an other and generally an attack of division level will take some space before finally halted so Pakistan losing few border towns and India losing few border towns is natural but probably  no Army will go on offensive without effectively neutralizing the other,s strength. so the matter of foremost importance is destruction of indian Army along with the second strike capability.War is living phenomenon  moving and creating chances generally equal for both sides and these  opportunities has to be felt and exploited  that is where leadership comes and counts

[Felicius]

Pakistan's conventional fighting capacity is 30-45 days - what happens if India does not grant a ceasefire after 30 days. They did not grant it during Kargill.

You're speaking as if it were my suggestion to invade India 100%?
You should have the answer for that one.

My suggestion was take Kashmir 100% and sit tight and defend, Invasion of whole of India is a fantasy at this point.

so Pakistan losing few border towns and India losing few border towns is natural

Is that want you call defeating Indian military 100%?
We can't 100% take over Israel, or even Afghanistan, Talibans have occupied a couple border towns of Pakistan, aap India ki baat kar rahey hai.

India is at par with Pakistan, not weaker, they deliver one punch, we'll deliver one punch, this will go on, and perhaps we'll get one golden opportunity, which we can utilize to go for Kashmir and defend other towns, or go on offensive and try to take over the whole of India, where the chances are that a few of our cities and border towns could be compromised.

[sfhussain]

You're speaking as if it were my suggestion to invade India 100%?

Not mine - I stated to destroy the Indian ability to wage war - which includes the destruction of Indian military. kindly read carefully before attributing statements to me.

You talk of Kashmir - what did you learn from kargill?

[PS:Annonymous]

This has entered the emotional phase. Pakistanis that i know of - dont salute bhangees - the Pakistanis I know will kill them.

faizan we take up this discussion in better weather conditions.

I will cut those heads who will bow to the enemy. i mean it

[PS:Annonymous]

Once occupied, then they will be merey bhai, why even risk border towns.

We are not f###ing rag tags. get that straight. Even Somalis and Palestinians dont slaut to their enemies.

Dont forget who you are talking here about. Pakistanis are well armed and i dont think they will even give up ever.

This is an other matter for secular liberals who appease in the name enlightenment. For them i dont speak.

As much some traitors wish to join back hindia.

Remember, we didnt make those nukes to put in museum. There is a name written on them nukes with the location and we are intended to send them to that very location.


Next time, before you ever say anything like this just think about the hell that will take place before ever indian army trying occupying Pakistan.

The entire south Asia will be an example of nuclear winter.

[Pak-Eye]

Khalid Bin Waleed (RA) along with Omar bin Khattab (RA), when they invaded the mighty Persia, it was basically based on one simple strategy:

1. Attack one city, invade it, isolate it and defend it; invade those cities first that would cut major supply & communication lines ...

2. Each invasion of city has to be taken as INDEPENDENT campaign with DIFFERENT field commander for each campaign

3. Multiple cities must be invaded simaltaneously i.e. multi prong attacks

I actually agree with both Shehz and sfHussain

Start from Kashmir if we have to and stick to it; liberate it, isolate it and defend it. The plus point here is it has moral standings and the cause is more of freedom fighting rather than aggression

sfhussain raised a very valid point; why 6 weeks war strategy? We are not in 1965; it is 2010; our resources would increase accordingly one way or another once we change the strategy to sustaining a war of atleast 6 months

[Felicius]

Border town/Villages barely have a population of a 1000, a significant number will probably be killed during the invasion, leaving the others to become prisoners.
Either they are forced to listen to the Indians, or another fate that's in store for them then, we need to visualize the situation before saying the poor and weak villagers will defy the occupiers.

Also, if we strike first, as in start the war (even conventionally), and are being beaten back, we don't have the option to use the nukes, as it wouldn't be a detterence, it'll be considered first strike (we started the war). The NATO forces will not even think twice before invading Pakistan, and that's what the Indians would welcome.
We can use nukes if India started the war, then only it's considered defence.

It's not about first round or second round, we start the war, we can't use Nukes first.
Let's not play into the hands of the Indians, that's what they want.

Sfhussain - to your question, from Kargil situation, we can win the war if our target is Kashmir only.

[PS:Annonymous]

Border town/Villages barely have a population of a 1000, a significant number will probably be killed during the invasion, leaving the others to become prisoners.
Either they are forced to listen to the Indians, or another fate that's in store for them then, we need to visualize the situation before saying the poor and weak villagers will defy the occupiers.

Also, if we strike first, as in start the war (even conventionally), and are being beaten back, we don't have the option to use the nukes, as it wouldn't be a detterence, it'll be considered first strike (we started the war). The NATO forces will not even think twice before invading Pakistan, and that's what the Indians would welcome.
We can use nukes if India started the war, then only it's considered defence.

It's not about first round or second round, we start the war, we can't use Nukes first.
Let's not play into the hands of the Indians, that's what they want.

Sfhussain - to your question, from Kargil situation, we can win the war if our target is Kashmir only.

But the war will not be limited to Kashmir, India knows that We have little problem taking kashmir from her. She will open the international border to spread out our army.

I think, we should keep building our strength silently and pretend to have inferior defense. Let india ride on power high and i am pretty darn sure one of these Akhand baharat idiot will some day invade us and then we punch their teeth in to their throat.

In the mean while, we must build nukes by hundreds. Keeping in mind the worse case scenario not the best. If we ever find our-self loosing, we must make it the loss for entire mankind. nobody wins.    

But also built conventional forces, we need to increase our reserve. Make it mandatory for every citizen to go through an army training.

Make it a constitutional right for citizen to have weapon at home like US constitution second amendment. To make sure that no one ever take over our country as every citizen armed can create a militia in time of invasion.

[Pak-Eye]

^ Plus cards like Khalistan; why bother when some else can do the job; Zia and his Generals knew it and were ahead on the plan; but thanks CIA for his assissination and thanks to BB's bend over ... we lost it

Bollywood invasion in our soceity speaks of endian success for itself; we should be doing the same; several options are at hand; it just needs someone sincere and patriotic to initiate and manage it

[PS:Annonymous]

Also we need to make good with our neighbors such as Afghanistan and Iran. Even if we have to make some concessions, its worth it.

if you guys have noticed that China and Iran has recently given Pakistan lots of help with nuclear and Gas energy project to help Pakistan break away from the washington's cruel claws.

Turkey is looking east, we must not miss the opportunity. Join in the project with Turks, china in energy, defense, infrastructure.  

[PS:Annonymous]

^ Plus cards like Khalistan; why bother when some else can do the job; Zia and his Generals knew it and were ahead on the plan; but thanks CIA for his assissination and thanks to BB's bend over ... we lost it

Bollywood invasion in our soceity speaks of endian success for itself; we should be doing the same; several options are at hand; it just needs someone sincere and patriotic to initiate and manage it

Bollywood crap can be delt with if we have a nationalistic and patriotic leader who wake up the masses and remind them of their enemy in the east.

[faizan khaliq]

You're speaking as if it were my suggestion to invade India 100%?
You should have the answer for that one.

My suggestion was take Kashmir 100% and sit tight and defend, Invasion of whole of India is a fantasy at this point.


Is that want you call defeating Indian military 100%?
We can't 100% take over Israel, or even Afghanistan, Talibans have occupied a couple border towns of Pakistan, aap India ki baat kar rahey hai.

India is at par with Pakistan, not weaker, they deliver one punch, we'll deliver one punch, this will go on, and perhaps we'll get one golden opportunity, which we can utilize to go for Kashmir and defend other towns, or go on offensive and try to take over the whole of India, where the chances are that a few of our cities and border towns could be compromised.

Defense is nothing but pending offensive , a powerful enemy  is drawn into a well prepared battle Zone and kept engaged till the time his teeth are taken out and then slowly he is out maneuvered attacked  forced to fight his defensive war .Weaker party resort to defense first but rest assure   it is only offensive which wins us the war.War between India and Pakistan is not a war between two countries it is a massive Hindu Muslim riot of subcontinent, Kashmir is smaller Part of Problem but if India is defeated in main land with thier forces destroyed Kashmir will come automatically we should never look for white man,s meditation, they are and have been a party in Indo Pak disputes.Taking kashmir as you suggest might be possible but we can not afford to get off balanced in rest of our borders or may be we can afford because we are nuclear power you know what I mean

[Felicius]

Defense is nothing but pending offensive , a powerful enemy  is drawn into a well prepared battle Zone and kept engaged till the time his teeth are taken out and then slowly he is out maneuvered attacked  forced to fight his defensive war .Weaker party resort to defense first but rest assure   it is only offensive which wins us the war.War between India and Pakistan is not a war between two countries it is a massive Hindu Muslim riot of subcontinent, Kashmir is smaller Part of Problem but if India is defeated in main land with thier forces destroyed Kashmir will come automatically we should never look for white man,s meditation, they are and have been a party in Indo Pak disputes.Taking kashmir as you suggest might be possible but we can not afford to get off balanced in rest of our borders or may be we can afford because we are nuclear power you know what I mean

When we go on offensive for Kashmir, the world community will call us aggressors, but not to the limit of interferring physically.
When go on offensive as in open other borders (full scale), they'll start sending war ships and warnings immediately, we won't be able to achieve anything then.

Also we aren't prepared to go on offensive now and then try to defend with a weak force later, we have other enemies besides India, and India has other allies besides Russia, we will also make Middle East weaker, and compromise Iran's security from their east borders, too much at stake here, if you know what I mean.

Go step by step, UN Security council has documents that say Kashmir is ours, we should go for Kashmir first, here we are considered passive offenders.
Place all defence on other borders and installations, and go on offensive in Kashmir.

[Felicius]

I think, we should keep building our strength silently

In the mean while, we must build nukes by hundreds.

But also built conventional forces, we need to increase our reserve.

Aap sahi keh rahey ho.
I've been saying all along, we need to strengthen our defence as such that it becomes impregnable and for outside forces to infiltrate.
We can beat back a robber with ease, once we know our families are safe.

The AF is going in the right direction, the army needs to move in that direction as well, but our Navy is left neglected for too long, our deficiency lies in the waters, we need to seriously work on that end, our defence should be air-tight.

[faizan khaliq]

When we go on offensive for Kashmir, the world community will call us aggressors, but not to the limit of interferring physically.
When go on offensive as in open other borders (full scale), they'll start sending war ships and warnings immediately, we won't be able to achieve anything then.

Also we aren't prepared to go on offensive now and then try to defend with a weak force later, we have other enemies besides India, and India has other allies besides Russia, we will also make Middle East weaker, and compromise Iran's security from their east borders, too much at stake here, if you know what I mean.

Go step by step, UN Security council has documents that say Kashmir is ours, we should go for Kashmir first, here we are considered passive offenders.
Place all defence on other borders and installations, and go on offensive in Kashmir.

I have to agree with you here limited war in Kashmir is  good option and our nukes might prevent bhangees  from all out adventure however  Indian Muslims will face the brunt of defeat at the hands of Hindu majority and we might have streaks of refugees so it will be a beginning of Armageddon.

[faizan khaliq]

I have to agree with you here limited war in Kashmir is  good option and our nukes might prevent bhangees  from all out adventure however  Indian Muslims will face the brunt of defeat at the hands of Hindu majority and we might have streaks of refugees so it will be a beginning of Armageddon.

In any case war on kashmir will turn into all out war, we can not rely on UNO and the world of kuffar, Remember the statement of European union when Kargill started, since they did not know the situation on ground they feared that Pakistan might actually capture Kashmir.The statement was '' we will not leave the people of Kashmir alone '' so independent Kashmir  is their aim but not Pakistani Kashmir therefore military force has to be resorted regardless of UN .UN has failed so Pakistan is free to do solution but end result all out war with world support with India  so there is no use of getting around but to plan for total war

[xyxmt]

Water problem will be more severe in next 5 years than Kashmir problem, war is inevitable. Hindu thinks they can screw with Pakistan in our time of trouble what they dont realize they are sticking their small peepee in the honey comb. I think ISI and PA will turn all its resources towards india once US leaves Afghanistan, it will be a do or die situation either India scums to international treaties or a full scale war

[cheif No 1]

Pakistan's conventional fighting capacity is 30-45 days - what happens if India does not grant a ceasefire after 30 days. They did not grant it during Kargill.

How many dys capicity they have??

[sfhussain]

How many dys capicity they have??

Indians have 60 days by themselves - more with outside help.