314 replies to this topic

[Pak-Eye]

Kiyani directs troops to ensure local population safety

http://www.geo.tv/5-13-2009/42010.htm

ISLAMABAD: Chief Of Army Staff(COAS) General Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani has instructed the Army to ensure minimum collateral damage even at the expense of taking risks, by resorting to precision strikes.

According to statement issued by ISPR, Pakistan Army is acutely aware of the nature of ongoing operations in Swat and elsewhere, and their likely fallouts.

Consequent to any military operation in populated areas, collateral damage and IDP issues are always a natural outcome. In fact the overall success of operations in such areas is a sum total of the three efforts i.e conduct of military operations, minimizing collateral damage and correctly managing IDPs.

COAS said that management of IDPs is as important as military operation in Swat. It has been decided to provide all out support to Government and International Agencies in the management and rehabilitation of IDPs.

For the first time in its history, Pakistan Army has taken a decision to give part of its daily ration items of daily food; Atta, Sugar, Ghee and Dhall to these IDPs. This exemplifies the Army’s spirit of sacrifice.

The food items so provided will be able to daily feed about 80,000 adults. Furthermore, Army is deploying its medical resources in all the IDPs camps. These medical camps will have adequate medicines for 90 days. Local Military Hospitals will also go on surge to treat patients.

[Pak-Eye]

Time and time again the political goons and their supporters have criticized our army so bluntly, yet PRACTICALLY, the army has proven again and again that they will sacrifice for this nation on every front

This IS Islam, neither the one that TTPs advertise nor the one that politicians have given us in last 60 years

PAK ARMY - 4eva

[aziqbal]

no matter right or wrong I always support the Pakistan army because its the only good thing Pakistan has, the army has sacraficed many Jawans for the country and that will never be forgotten, these bigots and retards who want to kill our soliders deserve nothing less than a nuclear warhead on thier heads

anyone who hates the army should be ashamed of themselves and not true Pakistani because Pakistan is here because of the army if no army then no Pakistan, if no army then means no home for pakistanis

long live Pakistan military and long live the Pakistan Fauj! stand ready and steadfast and wait for the call of duty u will always be victorius

[*Zarrar Jareeh*]

Pakistan FAUJ ZINDABAAD!!  

Pakistan Army All da Way!!      

[salaudin]

DUDE Armed force is for protection of country and whether it be from internal means or external means.

Yeh police is the first line of defence but once they fail a decision is made and usually the State or the Federal government request the services of the armed forces.

TTP is a puppet of USA and India thus you can classify them as external threat and use the armed forces and bypass any issue imposed by constitution, that is if any.

anyway can you enlighten me where it says the armed force can not be used internally.



So the PM called in the armed forces to enforce the writ of the government, hence in AID of civil power.

Other element is the fact that are a threat of war again they can be used, another aspect is which I said earlier, classify TTP as being tool of external power hence an external threat and action will be validated.

300,000+ Pakistanis who are made refugees in their own country, can they also be termed as "external threat". I never argued that the use of force against proven TTP members, is unconstitutional. My concern are those civilian Pakistanis who are killed, injured or dispersed because of these reckless operations.
About Police, my point is valid that it is not under "Pakistan Armed Forces".


"anyway can you enlighten me where it says the armed force can not be used internally."
Read my post again, I said that they must not be used AGAINST Pakistanis.
About the quote you have made, it clearly states that it can only "act in aid to civil power". The one we are talking about is a "war". Military is permitted to help during the time of natural disasters e.g. Floods, Earthquake etc.  

[MoThSmOkE]

salaudin:

The army is there to fight both internal and external threats. Moreover, the Taliban a menace that they have become can only be tackled by the army (not police nor FC). Whether you support the war is another issue.

[platinum786]

Islamist sympathisers will say anything to defend the Taliban types, because they have similar interests, a Pakistani society with is opressive, backward and hate filled. Some of them use guns to achieve it, others try to manipulate minds to achieve it.

The refugees are created because of the conflict. This may sound complicated to some, but really it is quite simple. When wars are fought the areas they are fought in are not safe. They are commonly known as War Zones. Most people who live in War zones and have no interests in involvement in war tend to leave war zones.

The internally displaced people, are commonly known as refugees, not as prisoners of war as Saludin would like to have us beleive. Of course in war innocent people die too. Both sides have killed innocent people. There is only 1 essential difference, innocents killed by the Pakistan army are accidents, we don't mean to kill innocents and try our best not too. The Taliban meanwhile have been cutting peoples throats like they are animals. Anyone who has spoken against them has been killed, the latest to be threatened by the super Muslims are the families of all MNA's from Swat and Makaland.

[1Pakistani]

300,000+ Pakistanis who are made refugees in their own country, can they also be termed as "external threat". I never argued that the use of force against proven TTP members, is unconstitutional. My concern are those civilian Pakistanis who are killed, injured or dispersed because of these reckless operations.
About Police, my point is valid that it is not under "Pakistan Armed Forces".


"anyway can you enlighten me where it says the armed force can not be used internally."
Read my post again, I said that they must not be used AGAINST Pakistanis.
About the quote you have made, it clearly states that it can only "act in aid to civil power". The one we are talking about is a "war". Military is permitted to help during the time of natural disasters e.g. Floods, Earthquake etc.

How is the operation of PA reckless, can you point out recklessness in those operations. There is no other alternative to this but fighting them out of their holes and that is  what our boys are doing.

Y cant ARMY be used against Pakistanis? You people find it Okay for army to be used in Balochistan but not NWFP or FATA.

The fact of the matter is these people backed by foreign powers are way too strong for Police or other agencies to handle, thus it requires service of the Armed forces.

If you going to talk about Collateral damage, than what about those killed in Suicide bombings, what about those beheaded by Taliban? Who is going to provide security to our people.

Beside Army has been very patient with this, i never supported brutal operation against taliban, as i too feared that innocent will die, but there is always a limit to ones patient and there comes the stage when it runs out.

Y you care? the people of the army are welcoming the army as their defenders, despite knowing they might be killed these people see PA as only hope left to counter the brutality of Taliban.

Unless you have a solution to this issue there is no point arguing on somthing that does not have a logical basis.


as for "act in aid to civil power".

Elected government is regarded as CIVIL government and aid to such could be for peace, good governance of the nation.

[PakShaheen]

I think in this country Army is something which is in Catach22 position.

Operation karo tau maseebat ... Na karo tau maseebat.

[visioninthedark]

The military responded after the ELECTED CIVILIAN government announced in PUBLIC through the address of PM Gilani on TV that we have to get rid of these MURDERING TRAITORS ..... that is FULLY as per the Constitution and well within the role of Pak Military.

[platinum786]

There is a new spin on this now gentleman, keep up with it.

Now the religious/shariah angle has not worked, the ethnic angle is being played. Before NAR this was a "war against those who want Shariah, decent good Muslims", the NAR came, the TTP etc got exposed and now the apologists are using the "pukhtun" angle. "This is a war against pukthuns" they blare out.

Take detailed note of the comments of some apologists. Not everyone creates an agenda, i have no reason to beleive that people want to harm our national interest by creating an agenda, but too often they push an agenda, without even knowing it.

There are those with agendas who push this is now a war against pukhtuns, an ethnic conflict, they use the mad dog barking of the MQM as timely justification, the geography of the conflict also works in their favour, and they manipulate the truth to create an agenda. People read these articles/comments/views and they beleive them. They are afterall crafted to be convincing.

People then unknowingly push this agenda and spread this evil, without even knowing they are being used.

[Pak-Eye]

60 extremists killed in Lower Dir army action

http://www.geo.tv/5-14-2009/42074.htm

DIR: Sixty extremists have been killed during army action in Lower Dir. According to Dir media center, the action has been taken at the residence of UC Nazim Lower Dir on a tip-off. The house of Nazim has been destroyed completely. More details about causalities not available.

On the other hand, curfew remained in place for fifth consecutive day in Swat and Malakand Agency creating problems for locals. Several strongholds of militants destroyed by security forces shelling in tehsil Maidan and Kalpani in Lower Dir. Large number of local residents migrating from Gulabad in tehsil Chakdara at the end of the curfew.

Curfew will be relaxed from 6:00 am till 1:00 pm in tehsil Adenzai whereas curfew remained continued in tehsil Maidan. In Shangla, the entire district under curfew except Bashsham in Shangla and Karokoram Highway

[saleemraja]

Swat schoolgirl's harrowing escape  
Fighting between the Pakistani army and Taleban militants in the country's north-western Swat valley has forced thousands to flee. Among them is a seventh grade schoolgirl who writes a diary for the BBC under the name Gul Makai. Here, she relates her ordeal to the BBC Urdu Service correspondent in Peshawar, Abdul Hai Kakar.


  
Some families are fleeing on foot with the few possessions they can carry
I have not just left Swat behind, but my identity and my life as well.

It was [last] Tuesday night when we heard the sound of heavy firing on all sides. We all got down on the floor.

We found out the exchange was between the Taleban and the army.

Our house is located near the circuit house which also serves as the main army headquarters in the area. Whenever there is fighting there, our home inevitably gets hit.

My family decided to leave Swat the very next day. We gathered the supplies for the trip.

During this time, news arrived that a curfew had been imposed in Mingora. We were trapped for three days.


See a map of the region

Finally, when the curfew was relaxed, we put our things in the car and drove out of the city.

I was very sad because I had to leave my school bag, with all my books, behind.




My sympathies are neither with the Taleban nor the army - both have been cruel to us



Diary of a Pakistani schoolgirl (vi)  
I recited verses from the Koran and breathed over it, so that it would be safe in the fighting between the army and the Taleban.

A huge crowd - like a flood of people - was moving about on the roads. Some were barefoot, others without a dupatta [a scarf women use]. Some were carrying bundles, others were empty-handed.

We had thought at first that our situation was dire, but we were thankful after seeing the scene on the roads.

I saw people who did not have money to buy a ticket out of Mingora.

'Traffic Taleban'

While leaving Mingora, I saw the Taleban in the Qamber area of the city.

They were telling people to drive in a straight line. The people would respond immediately to the Taleban commands.


Taleban fighters have destroyed the police post in Malakand district
My friend and I named these Taleban the "Traffic Taleban".

During the journey, my brother was very angry as he had to leave his chickens behind. He had insisted on bringing them along, but mother said they would die on the way.

We reached Nowshera through Peshawar, and then drove through Mansehra to reach Bisham. At Bisham, the army stopped us from going further.

My grandmother was very ill and crying from the pain. The army finally allowed us to go on after much pleading.

We left the area on foot, and after travelling for a while, we were able to get a bus. We now set off for Shangla.

'Bullet in the stomach'

We are in Shangla at the moment, but when we hear about the condition of the people in the camps, we thank God that we are living so comfortably.

I am sure that the war cannot continue forever and someday I will be able to go back and reclaim my life and my identity.

My sympathies are neither with the Taleban nor the army. Both have been cruel to us.

The Taleban have destroyed us and the army is murdering our people.

When we were leaving Mingora, one of my relatives received a bullet in the stomach when she was herding her children into the kitchen to protect them from the firing.

My cousin told me that the Taleban tried to prevent burka-clad women from going into the bus station by pushing them. Many fell to the ground.

The Taleban should now stop doing this because after the implementation of Sharia their demands have been met. Why are they doing this now?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8048076.stm

[saleemraja]

From Times OnlineMay 14, 2009

World Agenda: worst is yet to come in assault on Taleban in Swat valley

Jeremy Page in Islamabad
In Pakistan, you have to be careful what you wish for.

For years, the United States has been pressing the Government and the army to take on the Taleban, al-Qaeda and other militant groups sheltering on Pakistan’s long and porous northwestern border with Afghanistan.

Now, finally, the army has launched what appears to be a full-blown assault on the Taleban in the Swat Valley. Unusually, it also has widespread support from Pakistan’s political parties, as well as from moderate Islamic clerics.

The fear is that the army is neither trained nor equipped to do much more than reduce Swat to a pile of rubble, causing potentially huge civilian casualties and an overwhelming humanitarian crisis. And if, as in the last operation in Swat two years ago, ground forces do little more than march up the valley — without rooting out militants in the surrounding mountains — then the long term consequences could be disastrous.

So far, the signs are mixed. The army has mainly used fighter jets, helicopter gunships and heavy artillery to pound identifiable militant targets, mostly in the mountains. To minimize civilian casualties it has allowed more than 835,000 people to flee Swat and has mounted a substantial relief operation in neighbouring regions to help the refugees.

It has air-lifted commandos from a new counter-insurgency force into Piochar, near the militants’ main base. While Swat itself remains off limits to journalists and aid workers, the army allowed the Red Cross to enter the neighbouring region of Buner on Wednesday.

So far so good. But the consensus among officials, analysts and aid workers is that the worst is yet to come — and the operation will take months, rather than weeks.

The army’s claim to have killed more than 700 militants is deeply suspect as it is probably based on imprecise estimates from pilots rather than confirmed sightings by the few troops on the ground. So, too, is its claim that there have been no confirmed civilian casualties, despite numerous reports to the contrary from refugees who describe being caught in the fire between the two sides.

The army has not even started its attack on Mingora, the main town in Swat, which is now surrounded by troops. That has the biggest potential to turn into a bloodbath because residents say the Taleban have mined roads and dug trenches around an estimated 200,000 trapped civilians.

The only other option is to besiege the city, cutting off power and supply lines, but that would cause considerable suffering to the civilians there.

The army says it is ready for house-to-house combat in Mingora if necessary. In reality it is ill-prepared for such fighting as its training is all geared towards a potential conventional war with India, its traditional enemy.

Some progress has been made towards changing that, especially with the paramilitary Frontier Corps, which US and British personnel are now training. But that is a slow process that will take years, if not decades, to reach its conclusion.

Even if the army does launch a serious ground offensive, it will probably be accompanied by the massive aerial bombing and heavy artillery raids that pulverised much of the tribal agency of Bajaur last year. The most that can be hoped for, therefore, is that the army drives most of the militants out of Swat without killing so many civilians, and destroying so much property, that it provokes a public backlash against the Government.

Even then, there is the question of what happens next. The army cannot remain deployed indefinitely, but without a large and functional police force to replace it — which does not exist at present — the Taleban will soon return.

And if the government fails to look after the refugees from Swat in the mean time, the militants may find they have even more local support than before the army went in.

[Pak-Eye]

Military claims major accomplishments in Swat operation

http://www.geo.tv/5-14-2009/42095.htm

ISLAMABAD: Spokesman Pakistan Army Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas Thursday said the Swat operation is successfully underway and troops are making major achievements the in the counter-insurgency battle.

Giving updates on the latest of the ongoing operation in Malakand Division, the spokesman said 54 more militants have been killed in the last 24 hours while 9 men of security forces were martyred.

Minister of State for Information Samsam Ali Bukhari and State Minister for Economic Affairs Hina Rabbani Khar were also present on the occasion.

Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said operation is being carried out from four directions in Swat in which, he added, a large number of militants have been killed so far.

Action is being taken in Swat, Buner and Shangla through a comprehensive strategy.

He told the reporters that the security forces have successfully foiled a militants’ attack on a military headquarter in Piochar while exchange of fire is going on with militants in Audigram area.

DG ISPR said the operation is being taken ahead slowly to avoid civilian casualties. The ground forces have started action in Buner and Sultanwas while clash with militants continues in Shalpam area.

[Pak-Eye]

Gen. Kiyani vists SWAT

http://www.geo.tv/5-14-2009/42090.htm

SWAT: The Chief of the Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, on Thursday visited Swat and met with field commanders and troops participating in ongoing operations.

He appreciated high morale of the troops. He also saw at first hand certain operations being carried out against the militants.

He was given detailed briefing about the progress of operations by General Officer Commanding.

Army chief reiterated army’s resolve to flush out militancy from Swat and defeat the militants as a whole.

Earlier, on arrival he was received by the Corps Commander.

[maglomanic]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...wZadYQD984UJM00

Pakistan's refugees tell of fear under Taliban
By NAHAL TOOSI – 1 day ago

JALALA, Pakistan (AP) — The Pakistani teenager remembered recognizing her distant relative almost instantly, even though his head had been severed and placed on his back, punishment the Taliban claimed was for spying.

The brutal discovery was just one example used Tuesday by Kulsoom, a 16-year-old refugee, to describe life in the Swat Valley under Taliban control. As tens of thousands flood refugee camps to escape fighting between the army and militants, some are cautiously sharing their stories, detailing how extremists ran roughshod over cities and hamlets.


The Taliban's brand of Islamic law proved too harsh for many residents in the relatively conservative region of Pakistan, and it appears to be a major reason large numbers of the displaced support the military's latest offensive in the area.

Kulsoom, who comes from Swat's main city of Mingora and gave just one name to protect her identity, said she quit a housekeeping job that helped support her family because of growing Taliban restrictions on womens' movements.

She said she was stopped on the street while wearing a regular veil and warned by Taliban fighters to wear an all-encompassing burqa instead. Then, there was the sickening moment a few months ago when she and friends found the body of her distant relative.

"All I could think was that I missed the old days when we were happy," said Kulsoom, radiating a cheerful fatalism in a camp of several hundred families in this village south of the fighting.

As her mother warned her to not say too much, the young girl, first declared, "I'm not scared of them!" then later begged for details about her to be limited for fear she would be identified.

Swat was once a popular tourist haven known as the "Switzerland of Pakistan" for its Alpine scenery. It began falling prey to the Taliban — many of them locals who signed on to support a radical Islamist called Maulana Fazlullah — about two years ago.

Sporadic military offensives and peace deals failed to push the militants out, leading the Pakistani army — under pressure from the U.S. — to last week launch what it described as a decisive operation against the militants in the valley.

The operation there and in surrounding areas has displaced some 800,000 people, including 501,000 registered by the U.N. Pakistan's army said that offensives in the northwest, including ones before the most recent operation, have displaced 1.3 million people in the country of 170 million.

The U.S. has praised Pakistan's latest offensive, saying Islamabad must eliminate safe havens used by militants to undermine the pro-Western governments in both Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Swat is considered a key test partly because, unlike Pakistan's semiautonomous tribal regions, the valley is supposed to be under full government control. Yet, a few thousand militants have managed to hold hostage a one-time population of 1.5 million using fear.

In Mingora, a major intersection called Green Chowk is now known as Khooni Chowk — Bloody Intersection — because beheaded bodies, two or three at time, would appear there day after day. Notes attached to the victims accuse them of being spies or criminals, and warning people to not remove the bodies until a designated time.

To gain support, Fazlullah — nicknamed Mullah Radio due to his use of the airwaves — exploited a local grievance over the slow, corrupt judicial system by agitating for special Islamic courts. But soon, his supporters were burning girls schools, and threatening those carrying out activities they considered un-Islamic.

That included the billiards game of snooker, which meant Shaheen Bibi's husband had to close his little business.

"We are worried," the 30-year-old said, her body sore after sleeping on the ground in a camp in Mardan. "We have left full houses. We left with nothing."

Rima, a 20-year-old who like many Swat residents goes by one name, was always afraid because her husband was a police officer, a group targeted by the militants.

"Whenever I heard the news that they'd beheaded a policeman, I'd worry about my husband," she said, as she nursed her baby in a boiling hot tent. "It was a nightmare for me."

Many residents were too fearful to say much, amid worries that some Taliban sympathizers or relatives of militants were in the camps. Some said the most the militants did in their areas was knock on doors and ask people to go pray.

Others said they never had violent run-ins with the militants, but had to adjust their lifestyles to avoid offending Taliban supporters in their neighborhoods.

Fazal Rahman, 35, said he made sure his pants were hemmed significantly above his ankles — a style that some religious Muslims consider a mark of piety.

He refused to grow a beard, despite Taliban admonitions, but had to shave at home — the militants forbid barbershops from offering the service.

The government machinery was so helpless, "there were no police even for traffic duty," he said.

For Kulsoom, like nearly all the displaced Pakistanis interviewed, home beckons and she hopes to return soon. But she's willing to wait until she can leave her house without fear.

After all, she asked, "Who's happy being confined to a room?"

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.



Now listen to Mr. Salaudin and Raja bhai come here and give their convuloted reasoning that how ordinary Pashtuns support Talibans. It is just amazing that how these people live in a world they have created in their head just to see taliban take over Pakistan and push us back to stone age. Not only this, these guys love to sit in their comfy well lit houses where they are well fed. Islam kay sachay mujahid after all!

[salaudin]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...wZadYQD984UJM00

Pakistan's refugees tell of fear under Taliban
By NAHAL TOOSI – 1 day ago

JALALA, Pakistan (AP) — The Pakistani teenager remembered recognizing her distant relative almost instantly, even though his head had been severed and placed on his back, punishment the Taliban claimed was for spying.

The brutal discovery was just one example used Tuesday by Kulsoom, a 16-year-old refugee, to describe life in the Swat Valley under Taliban control. As tens of thousands flood refugee camps to escape fighting between the army and militants, some are cautiously sharing their stories, detailing how extremists ran roughshod over cities and hamlets.


The Taliban's brand of Islamic law proved too harsh for many residents in the relatively conservative region of Pakistan, and it appears to be a major reason large numbers of the displaced support the military's latest offensive in the area.

Kulsoom, who comes from Swat's main city of Mingora and gave just one name to protect her identity, said she quit a housekeeping job that helped support her family because of growing Taliban restrictions on womens' movements.

I never said that ordinary Pashtuns support Taliban. Where did you get that from ? In one of the posts by "saleemraja", it was stated that they neither support Taliban nor this military operation. I would like to free Pakistan from those TTP militants. But what I am arguing is that GoP must have a better way to do all this. Military operation is not a solution; in fact it makes it from bad to worse. We all have seen that happened after the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. We all suffered from the exponential growth of terrorism after operations in Baluchistan, NWFP (previous ones) and Lal Masjid. How else would we learn if we do not learn from our past mistakes or mistakes made by our so-called leader's superiors, the U.S.?  
Bro, think rationally, if people are against this operations, that does not mean that they sympathize with Taliban. People are against it because the way this war is being conducted. Killing and injuring civilians (700+, were all of them militants?), making half a million refugees in their own country; all that does not make us any better than Taliban, at least not for the people who are directly suffering from those civilian casualties.

She said she was stopped on the street while wearing a regular veil and warned by Taliban fighters to wear an all-encompassing burqa instead. Then, there was the sickening moment a few months ago when she and friends found the body of her distant relative.

"All I could think was that I missed the old days when we were happy," said Kulsoom, radiating a cheerful fatalism in a camp of several hundred families in this village south of the fighting.

As her mother warned her to not say too much, the young girl, first declared, "I'm not scared of them!" then later begged for details about her to be limited for fear she would be identified.

Swat was once a popular tourist haven known as the "Switzerland of Pakistan" for its Alpine scenery. It began falling prey to the Taliban — many of them locals who signed on to support a radical Islamist called Maulana Fazlullah — about two years ago.

Sporadic military offensives and peace deals failed to push the militants out, leading the Pakistani army — under pressure from the U.S. — to last week launch what it described as a decisive operation against the militants in the valley.

The operation there and in surrounding areas has displaced some 800,000 people, including 501,000 registered by the U.N. Pakistan's army said that offensives in the northwest, including ones before the most recent operation, have displaced 1.3 million people in the country of 170 million.

The U.S. has praised Pakistan's latest offensive, saying Islamabad must eliminate safe havens used by militants to undermine the pro-Western governments in both Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Swat is considered a key test partly because, unlike Pakistan's semiautonomous tribal regions, the valley is supposed to be under full government control. Yet, a few thousand militants have managed to hold hostage a one-time population of 1.5 million using fear.

In Mingora, a major intersection called Green Chowk is now known as Khooni Chowk — Bloody Intersection — because beheaded bodies, two or three at time, would appear there day after day. Notes attached to the victims accuse them of being spies or criminals, and warning people to not remove the bodies until a designated time.

To gain support, Fazlullah — nicknamed Mullah Radio due to his use of the airwaves — exploited a local grievance over the slow, corrupt judicial system by agitating for special Islamic courts. But soon, his supporters were burning girls schools, and threatening those carrying out activities they considered un-Islamic.

That included the billiards game of snooker, which meant Shaheen Bibi's husband had to close his little business.

"We are worried," the 30-year-old said, her body sore after sleeping on the ground in a camp in Mardan. "We have left full houses. We left with nothing."

Rima, a 20-year-old who like many Swat residents goes by one name, was always afraid because her husband was a police officer, a group targeted by the militants.

"Whenever I heard the news that they'd beheaded a policeman, I'd worry about my husband," she said, as she nursed her baby in a boiling hot tent. "It was a nightmare for me."

Many residents were too fearful to say much, amid worries that some Taliban sympathizers or relatives of militants were in the camps. Some said the most the militants did in their areas was knock on doors and ask people to go pray.

Others said they never had violent run-ins with the militants, but had to adjust their lifestyles to avoid offending Taliban supporters in their neighborhoods.

Fazal Rahman, 35, said he made sure his pants were hemmed significantly above his ankles — a style that some religious Muslims consider a mark of piety.

He refused to grow a beard, despite Taliban admonitions, but had to shave at home — the militants forbid barbershops from offering the service.

The government machinery was so helpless, "there were no police even for traffic duty," he said.

For Kulsoom, like nearly all the displaced Pakistanis interviewed, home beckons and she hopes to return soon. But she's willing to wait until she can leave her house without fear.

After all, she asked, "Who's happy being confined to a room?"

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.



Now listen to Mr. Salaudin and Raja bhai come here and give their convuloted reasoning that how ordinary Pashtuns support Talibans. It is just amazing that how these people live in a world they have created in their head just to see taliban take over Pakistan and push us back to stone age. Not only this, these guys love to sit in their comfy well lit houses where they are well fed. Islam kay sachay mujahid after all!

I never said that ordinary Pashtuns support Taliban. Where did you get that from ? In one of the posts by "saleemraja", it was stated that they neither support Taliban nor this military operation. I would like to free Pakistan from those TTP militants. But what I am arguing is that GoP must have a better way to do all this. Military opeartion is not a solution, in fact it makes it from bad to worse. We all have seen that happened after the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. We all suffered from the exponential growth of terrirism after operations in Balochistan, NWFP (previous ones) and Lal Masjid. How else would we learn if we do not learn from our past mistakes or mistakes made by our so-called leader's superiors, the U.S.?  
Bro, think rationally. If people are against this operations, that does not make them Taliban sympathizers. People are aginats it beciase the way this war is being conducted. Our act does not make us any better than Talibans, at least not for the people who are directly suffering from those civilian casualties.

[salaudin]

How is the operation of PA reckless, can you point out recklessness in those operations. There is no other alternative to this but fighting them out of their holes and that is  what our boys are doing.

Y cant ARMY be used against Pakistanis? You people find it Okay for army to be used in Balochistan but not NWFP or FATA.

The fact of the matter is these people backed by foreign powers are way too strong for Police or other agencies to handle, thus it requires service of the Armed forces.

If you going to talk about Collateral damage, than what about those killed in Suicide bombings, what about those beheaded by Taliban? Who is going to provide security to our people.

Beside Army has been very patient with this, i never supported brutal operation against taliban, as i too feared that innocent will die, but there is always a limit to ones patient and there comes the stage when it runs out.

Y you care? the people of the army are welcoming the army as their defenders, despite knowing they might be killed these people see PA as only hope left to counter the brutality of Taliban.

Unless you have a solution to this issue there is no point arguing on somthing that does not have a logical basis.


as for "act in aid to civil power".

Elected government is regarded as CIVIL government and aid to such could be for peace, good governance of the nation.

Use intelligence to find out about the top command of TTP and neutralize them using SSG, FC and Police. Some of this was done, in Malakand, to go after Fazalullah. I support such a move and believe this is how operation Hah-e-Haq should be.
Why are we moving heavy artillery and what are we going to use it against? Do they have M1A1 in their arsenal? Strategic strikes or even a covert operation against them is what is required. Such a move, at worst, had only made fraction of the people refugees and hardly any civilian casualty.
And no, it is not rocket science and they could have easily thought of this. The reason why we do not see any such thing happening is simply because OUR policies are "made in Washington".  

[platinum786]

Pak army defending motherland: Baber Awan

Updated at: 1420 PST, Friday, May 15, 2009  

ISLAMABAD: The writ of government will be restored in Swat and talks will now only be held when militants will lay down their arms, said Baber Awan.

In a speech in National Assembly, Federal Minister for Parliamentary Affairs Baber Awan said atrocities in Swat forced people to migrate and ongoing operation is not the reason of migration. Prime Minister had discussed the issue with political leadership before his address regarding operation.

Awan said military is there to protect innocent people whereas federal government has unanimously approved the military action.

“ The doors for negotiations are still open but now it will be happen only when militants lay down their arms,” said the federal minister. He saluted the positive role of media in current situation.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=77708

[platinum786]

Use intelligence to find out about the top command of TTP and neutralize them using SSG, FC and Police. Some of this was done, in Malakand, to go after Fazalullah. I support such a move and believe this is how operation Hah-e-Haq should be.

Why are we moving heavy artillery and what are we going to use it against? Do they have M1A1 in their arsenal? Strategic strikes or even a covert operation against them is what is required. Such a move, at worst, had only made fraction of the people refugees and hardly any civilian casualty.
And no, it is not rocket science and they could have easily thought of this. The reason why we do not see any such thing happening is simply because OUR policies are "made in Washington".

Are you suggesting, that you support a military operation against the TTP, but you do not support all of the tactics used in the current military operation?

[PakShaheen]

salaudin
========

Bro,Unfortunately, time for what you are suggesting has gone passed a long before.

[Pikes]

No 136/2009-ISPR  Dated: May 15, 2009  

Rawalpindi - May 15, 2009: During last 24 hours Security Forces have achieved success in various areas of Swat. We request the civil population of Swat to come forward and help security forces in identifying the Taliban terrorists. We have confirmed reports that these Taliban terrorists after shaving off their beards and cutting hair are fleeing from the area. We request the people of Swat to identify them by pointing out at a check post where security forces are present. You may dial the cell number 0333-5239938 which we are publicizing through media, or send sms which may help the arrest of these Taliban Terrorists.

55 miscreants have been killed in various areas of Swat during last 24 hours while 3 security forces personnel embraced Shahdat and 11 others were injured.
An important Terrorist commander, Dawa Noor has also been apprehended by security forces. Dawa Noor is known Terrorist Taliban Commander who was also member of TNSM shoora and was grossly involved in terrorist activities in Sultanwas and Daggar. Before security forces launched operation in Buner, Dawa Noor was instigating civil population of the area against security forces on FM Radio and with the help of a Loud Speaker on a Jeep. He played crucial role in facilitating taking over of Buner by Taliban Terrorists. At Peochar Taliban miscreants attacked a security forces check posts. 13 miscreants were killed here and one of their vehicle completely destroyed.
Security Forces have successfully linked up at Udigram and Police force at Udigram have joined the Army troops. 100 policemen have joined back.
Security forces have established various check posts between Matta and Bar Bamkhe.
Security Forces after clearing area Giga and Jura, have now reached northwest of Matta.
During advance towards village Adai (south of Ramotai) security forces destroyed two miscreants Taliban compounds.
Miscreant Taliban fired heavy weapons from Sultanwas, Resultantly, 1 soldier embraced shahadat and 3 soldiers got injured.

At Kalpanai and Sultanwas 42 miscreant Taliban were killed and 15 vehicles were also destroyed.

http://www.ispr.gov.pk/front/main.asp?o=t-...se&latest=1

[salaudin]

Are you suggesting, that you support a military operation against the TTP, but you do not support all of the tactics used in the current military operation?

Almost right. I would support operation against them (the reason I am excluding the term "military" because people define it differently). Something on a smaller scale; something that would be an operation against them, not a mini Operation Barbarossa against the people of Pakistan in NWFP.
So, in other words, it should be precisely against TTP and something on a smaller scale. I remember 90s operation of Nasirullah Babar against MQM terrorists, they didn't use artillery, gunships or Tanks. Although they used military, it was nothing like this current "military operation".
BTW why would anyone not support actions against TTP? I do not know anyone who does not support actions against TTP, but people are against the way this operation is being conducted.

[platinum786]

^^^ Well brother in that case that is an entirely different situation.

The operation at the moment I think probably is about right. We have to remember that Swat is not Karachi, Swat is a valley, with Towns and villages, Karachi is a mega city. You obviously cannot use tanks in a city. Even if they took tanks or APC's into Mingora it would be dangerous, as cities make excellent places to destroy such weapons. The Russians learnt that in Grozny in the 90's. This article gives you some idea of the military tactics used by the Chechens;

http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/Rusn_leslrn.htm

http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/grozny.htm

However in the countryside there is an obvious use for the artillery and tanks. The TTP have access to RPG's at long distance they don't do much damage to a tank, so the tank provides a good mobile outpost for troops to work around. Secondly in the hills the TTP are hiding and firing, it is easier to launch artillery onto remote positions you are being fired upon rather than send troops into an uphill battle.

In the towns and villages, there is also some use of artillery/mortars, but is is more precision airstrikes from helicopters and aircraft, take a look at this video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSQ2cdLJR-U

The aircraft are targetting houses which are known to have TTP members fighting in them or hiding in them. Sort of mini TTP bases. The more of these you can destroy before you go in, the more useless their defences (trenches/mines) will be as they will be forced to move. Unfortunately often these are houses of normal people that have taken over and even in some cases we have false information or poor information and have ended up targetting civillians.

What we really need for urban combat is more UAV's to get real time footage of the presence of the TTP, whether they will have that  or not, I don't know.

[saleemraja]

I agree with Salaudin to some extent. No one is disagreeing with Pakistan's position on TTP. Its the way it is being carried out on behest of Uncle Sam and the total disregard for the sufering of the Pashtuns in SWAT and area. And for your information Salaudin, Babar failed against the MQM and it was a political solution that saved the day for everyone. MQM is still powerful both militarily and politically and yet still peaceful  and democratic. Similarly the military solution in NWFP area is not going to work and only a political solution will bring peace. Why have tens of thousands dead when eventually we will have to sit down at the negotiating table? PA does need to exercise its muscle and practice for conflict but I rather they did it in Afghanistan or India rather than in Pakistan.

Almost right. I would support operation against them (the reason I am excluding the term "military" because people define it differently). Something on a smaller scale; something that would be an operation against them, not a mini Operation Barbarossa against the people of Pakistan in NWFP.
So, in other words, it should be precisely against TTP and something on a smaller scale. I remember 90s operation of Nasirullah Babar against MQM terrorists, they didn't use artillery, gunships or Tanks. Although they used military, it was nothing like this current "military operation".
BTW why would anyone not support actions against TTP? I do not know anyone who does not support actions against TTP, but people are against the way this operation is being conducted.

[PakShaheen]

Saleem Raja
-------------

As I said before time for a calculated operation by SSG in Swat has gone passed a long while ago. It is 4th phase of operation and only difference at this time is it is initiated with the full political backing of a democratic government and it is one hell of difference. It is not government who broke the dialog but guilty party was TTP. I once advocated for the talks and still thinks that counter insurgency operation has a larger input of political actors but problem is on other side of table there is only a militant party not a political one.

I think Only thing Pakistan need desperately is intel gathering tech from all over the world or from where ever it is possible to acquire.

In the end it will be dialog that will sattle things for once and all but that is only possible once we get rid of this TTP menace.

[Pak-Eye]

I agree with Salaudin to some extent. No one is disagreeing with Pakistan's position on TTP. Its the way it is being carried out on behest of Uncle Sam and the total disregard for the sufering of the Pashtuns in SWAT and area. And for your information Salaudin, Babar failed against the MQM and it was a political solution that saved the day for everyone. MQM is still powerful both militarily and politically and yet still peaceful  and democratic. Similarly the military solution in NWFP area is not going to work and only a political solution will bring peace. Why have tens of thousands dead when eventually we will have to sit down at the negotiating table? PA does need to exercise its muscle and practice for conflict but I rather they did it in Afghanistan or India rather than in Pakistan.

As others have said its too late now; I don't believe dialogue was a solution with TTP "leadership"; the TTP "leadership" was always meant to be dealt militarily. However for so many obvious reasons, we were unable to do targeted killing on TTP and were quite late

See below links what Taliban think, what they potray and what their ACTIONS are:

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/188003.php

http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2009/0...-#####-in-heat/

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/taliban-boy-beh...eo/38937-2.html


Leave even that Taliban have used 12 years old kids to do beheadings
Leave event that Taliban have beheaded fellow Muslims
Leave even that Taliban have beheaded in the most un-Islamic way (the actual one is with sword)
Leave even that Taliban have done this purely for propaganda

The main issue is; Taliban are just doing this all for "POWER" only and that also in the name of ISLAM

PS: Caution, extreme graphics in above links, plz take care

[visioninthedark]

As others have said its too late now; I don't believe dialogue was a solution with TTP "leadership"; the TTP "leadership" was always meant to be dealt militarily. However for so many obvious reasons, we were unable to do targeted killing on TTP and were quite late

See below links what Taliban think, what they potray and what their ACTIONS are:

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/188003.php

http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2009/0...-#####-in-heat/

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/taliban-boy-beh...eo/38937-2.html


Leave even that Taliban have used 12 years old kids to do beheadings
Leave event that Taliban have beheaded fellow Muslims
Leave even that Taliban have beheaded in the most un-Islamic way (the actual one is with sword)
Leave even that Taliban have done this purely for propaganda

The main issue is; Taliban are just doing this all for "POWER" only and that also in the name of ISLAM

PS: Caution, extreme graphics in above links, plz take care

Brother ...... some of us are blind ..... their hearts are closed .... no matter how logical you are .... they will still come back to defend these sick animals.

I like the quote on the first website

"TOLERENCE BECOMES A CRIME WHEN APPLIED TO EVIL"

[saleemraja]

Lol, I hope you are not trying muzzle debate Visioninthedark!

The first casualty of war is truth and the second sanity!!!!

Follow the timeline and you can see the real causes of this war.

Brother ...... some of us are blind ..... their hearts are closed .... no matter how logical you are .... they will still come back to defend these sick animals.

I like the quote on the first website

"TOLERENCE BECOMES A CRIME WHEN APPLIED TO EVIL"

[Aliph Ahmed]

Taleban terrorists = Latoo kay bhoot jo batoon say nahi maantay.  :)

[Pikes]

No 138/2009-ISPR  Dated: May 16, 2009  

Rawalpindi - May 16, 2009: During last 24 hours, the operation in all sectors i.e Swat, Shangla and Buner have achieved great success. Security Forces are closing in from different directions and have been able to inflict more casualties. 47 terrorists have been killed in various areas of Dir and 4 have been arrested, while 3 Security Forces personnel were injured.

SHANGLA / KHAWAZAKHELA

1. Security Forces conducted search and destroy operation against terrorists hideouts in village Adai, Ramotai Gato Sar Banda and base of Banai Baba Ziarat. Main terrorist leader of Shangla sector, Zaman has been killed in Banai Baba Ziarat. While Sher Alam, another important terrorist leader from Malam Jabba was arrested in Shangla.

2. Area from Shangla towards Khawazakhela has been secured by security forces. IDPs of Khawazakhela area can go back to their homes from Shangla side traveling on the main road.

SWAT / MINGORA

1. Security forces are getting close to Mingora city to isolate and block the movement of fleeing terrorists.

2. Security Forces are consolidating their positions in Udigram.

3. Biadra Markaz, the stronghold of terrorists on Matta- Durushkhel road has been destroyed.

4. In Mingora, another important terrorist commander Mukhtar alias Rashid Lala has been killed.

5. Terrorists have created various road blocks in Mingora city to impede / block movement on roads.

6. Intense exchange of fire took place between Security Forces at Makan Bagh, Grid Station, Airport, Ayub Bridge and Baniam Bridge.

DIR

1. In Dir, the house of Union Council Nazim Hayasarai Zia ul Haq was engaged by Security Forces in a response to miscreants reckless fire. Resultantly, 45 terrorists were killed.

2. Security Forces arrested 4 fleeing terrorists from Hayasari and Shamozai Check Post.

                           3. Terrorists killed one civilian at Hayasarai.

[visioninthedark]

Lol, I hope you are not trying muzzle debate Visioninthedark!

The first casualty of war is truth and the second sanity!!!!

Follow the timeline and you can see the real causes of this war.

so you are saying that a 12 year old boy being taught how to cut the head off another Muslim man with a small knife ...... can be justified by analysing a timeline??????!!!!!!!

May Allah guide you!

[PakShaheen]

Latest Updates



Main Points:

1. Matta will b taken over by forces till tomorrow

2. Forces Entered Matta from three sides

3. To keep the civilian causalities minimum No heavy weapon and Airforce is being used. Instead; tactics like surprise attacks on militants are adopted in Matta.

Source : Maj. Gen. Sajjad Ghani

[saleemraja]

No, What I am saying is don't look at the microscopic level but at the macroscopic one to see the real causes of this war. We know wht the USA was demanding before the invasion but what we don't know is what price has been agreed by our champion of Pakistan's cause: Zardari.

so you are saying that a 12 year old boy being taught how to cut the head off another Muslim man with a small knife ...... can be justified by analysing a timeline??????!!!!!!!

May Allah guide you!

[AL-khalid]

Ulama Conference backs military operation

ISLAMABAD: The Ulama and Mashaikh from all over the country have endorsed the ongoing military operation in Malakand Division, terming it “guarantee to the stability and survival of Pakistan,” ARY OneWorld reported.

http://www.thearynews.com/english/

[Pak-Eye]

Ulema could have played a very affective role via dialgue with these people, even without the involvement of government

Too late ...

[AL-khalid]

India, Taliban threat to Pakistan: Musharraf

Washington—Former President Gen (Retd) Pervez Musharraf has said that Taliban and India both are threat for Pakistan stressing that Pakistan must keep an open eye on both.

In an interview with foreign media, former President Gen (Retd) Pervez Musharraf said that Pakistan army is the real strength of Pakistan. The large number of deployment of the troops by India on border is a constant threat to Pakistan’s integrity.

However, India would never attack Pakistan at all because, she knows the strength of Pakistan. However, Pakistan must maintain minimum deterrence to avoid Indian attack, he added.

In response to a question he said that 500% there is no need of any mindset. These aspersions are cast by those who want to weaken Pakistan. Anyone who wants to weaken Pakistan attacks the Pakistan army and ISI, he added.

Pakistan army is an extremely disciplined army. It carries out orders from the top and army leadership carries out orders from the government.

In response to a question pertaining to supporting Taliban, Pervez Musharraf strongly rejects the allegations and termed these accusations baseless. He said that after 9/11 incident Pakistan army had arrested around 700 Taliban. All the Al-Qaeda leaders were arrested by Pakistan; how could Pakistan support Taliban? It is a ridiculous accusation, he added.

He said that the international community must support Pakistan instead of criticizing it. He said that drone attacks are halting the course of war on terrorism and it is causing great resentment and anti-America sentiments among the masses. He said that he likes former US President G. W Bush, but he is not among his followers.

While talking about Karzai, Pervez Musharraf said that Afghan President is double-dealing with Pakistan. He said that Karzai would be hiding things from Pakistan.

He said that Karzai knew the issues and he is causing trouble to Pakistan by not addressing these issues with Pakistan.

Gen (Retd) Pervez Musharraf said that in a situation like this, the basic requirement is the unity of thoughts and action by all: the Afghanistan government, coalition forces and within the coalition forces and other.

Replying to another question Gen (Retd) Pervez Musharraf has said that he had warned former prime minister of Pakistan Benazir Bhutto of threats to her life.

Benazir Bhutto sent him a special message indicating that there are certain terrorists groups in Karachi, who supposedly came to Karachi and wanted to attack her, he told.

In Rawalpindi, where she addressed a gathering, in Liaquat Bagh, that was heavily congested and the thickest part of the city. This is the place which is the main square and tall buildings all around, he said adding that government had told her not to come there but that was what happened to her.—Online


http://pakobserver.net/200905/18/news/topstories05.asp

[fanna4paf]

yar its become day by day more serious problem. GOD help us there become alot of refugees economy is effecting very badly army sould try to kill mullah faisal ullah as soon as possible. otherwize it will take more and more time.

guyz i am fear this operation not become fight of srilanka army and tamil tagets which was of 26year. i am very confuse today and my confident also become week and week day by day special today report come that 27militants killed in 24houre i think in full operation it is to less. i feel now our army face a very tillented and well train as our ssg army and gurilah specialist militants

Look what happen

[fanna4paf]

GEO Pakistan
Security forces take control of Matta, Maidan
Updated at: 1028 PST,  Tuesday, May 19, 2009
PESHAWAR: Security forces gained control of tehsil Maidan of district Lower Dir and Matta in district Swat.

According to Dir media center, militants have been completely flushed out from tehsil Maidan and the area is now under control of security forces. The displaced persons have asked to return back to their homes.

Sources said forces pounded militants hideouts in mountainous area of tehsil Maidan last night. No loss of life was reported in the action.

Meanwhile, security forces operation against militants continued in tehsil Matta and Kabal in district Swat. Forces took the control of Matta city, reports said.

Curfew remained imposed in district Swat since several days that creates shortage of food supplies and other necessary items in the area.

http://geo.tv/5-19-2009/42403.htm



good news but where run militants and why our army cannot stop or kill them