21 replies to this topic

[A Ahmed]

AOA I was reading this article and was shocked by the revelations about Air Marshal Shahid Lafit, and the JF-17 program can you please read this and comment. Many thanks

http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwind...p;Date=20090319

[Alkhalid-19]

Have you a English version ?

[HKK]

WTF.. why america is not happy with him? Hell, they now even gone this far that they influence on who we pick for our CAS. This needs to be brought in open.

[HARI]

Pakistan mein inqilaab lana hai


IF this iftikhar chaudry does not reverse the NRO,  and do not open all the cases again,,

then       IFTIKHAR CHAUDRY

[Rehan_Aviation Artist]

AOA,

Air Marshall Shahid Latif is a legend.

If u see the book " History of PAF" published in 1988, there is his pic where he was received by then Air Marshall Rashid when he landed the first F-16 at sargodha.

I remember that in the launching ceremony of Jf-17 at Kamra on March 2007.

In his address, he got so much emotional that he said:

"when the Jf-17 project was going to launch, an air marshall remarked that it will never become a reality, we should look for other options, now that person should come and see that we have made it a reality !!!!!!!!"

Definitely, we are so much under the influence of the powers (due to loans) and also due to lack of leadership qualities of our leaders that the big ones dictate us.

Lets pray for the best.

I am sure that like our past cheifs, the new CAS will keep the PAF rising.

Amen.

[ZAKI]

is Zardari ki to main ............. samaghta hi nahin

Allah Ta'Allah is mulk ko bachaye

Aameen

[greatpeople1]

it tells us ghadri toook 100% of his share in the deal and gave Pakistan another blow ... lets take this corruption to media, we cannot tolerate his 100% kick backs any more anyway again. He is the the single greatest danger Pakistan has ......

[kilo19]

As if Pakistani Jounalists can write an authentic Defence Article, com'on gimme a break!

No disrespect to AM Shahid Latif but AM Rao Suleman was the architect of the Strategy to Counter the very real threat of Indian Surgical Strikes and maybe this recent event tilted the balance in his favour! This also quoted in popular news sources !

However, the Americans being involved is BS!

[blackvenom]

read the article again its not about AM Rao Qamar,
its about the project and what changes were made and by whom. AM Rao Qamar is from okara not sindh, also he is not retired and was not formerly in PIA.
Dont discredit people simply on a whim, the journalist concerned is a well established one and more importantly the footnote of the article should address your concerns with regards to the authenticity of the news/issue as he has not only named AM shahid latif but has also stated the willingness of AM shahid to come out onto any forum to expose what the govt. did. Jf-17 is practically AM latif's baby and its understandable how disturbed he would be if such a thing did happen.

[SUNNY92]

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt269/T...et/scan0014.jpg

Then a Wing Commander, Shahid Latif introduces a new dimension of firepower to Pakistan.

[PakSniper786]

Can someone tell us clearly what the article is talking about (translation) please.

[PakShaheen]

I am little doubful about this article. Javeed Chudhary has written same kind of article against former HEC chairman Dr. Atta ur Rehman when he was desperately trying to engage with developed countries to open engineering universities in Pakistan with collaboration of these countries. Javed went even so far calling all research papers of Rd Ata ur Rehman as work of his students and calling Dr. as thief who stole research of his students.

2nd thing is Why a disciplined person like AM Shahid Latif leaked information to a journalist that PAF will not reveal otherwise. So did he violated rules there? This is biggest cloud of doubt in my mind about this article as AVM is still with PAF and not retired yet. How he can go against openly about a decision made by PAF?

Then, From start we all knew that JF-17 will be made in PAC but not from first plane... this will be a gradual shift and as far as the said deal is concerned b/w Pakistan and China, both signed serial production agreement in PAC whereas this coloumn claims that Pakistan is now going to BUY Thunders from china as an imported item.

Just read sentences like;

-2000 main AM Shahid Latif ko JF-17 Thunder banane ka kam dia gia....
(In 2000, AM Shahid Latif was tasked to make Thunders )
- Air force k aik sabiq Afsar beech main aye aur .... In doosiyoo k waja se JF-17 main chand tabdeeliyan aa gayeen...
An Ex-Ariforce officier, who later went to PIA, came in between and he is from Jatoi tribe of Sindh and friend of Pakistani leaders and due this friendship JF-17 program went under some changes. Now PAF will BUY these planes from CATIC, China.

-Total worth of project is $10 billion and price for first batch is $ 1 billion.

[aziqbal]

thats true

i can imagine it in the news, a Pakistan airforce JF17 took of from Peshawar air base and soon detected two bogies coming from the West the fighter pilot "aziqbal" identified these as two American F15 Eagles he was not impressed  

aziqbal then violently turned towards the two bogies and started to chase them but the Eagles ran off and azi was in no mood to play games and he intercepted them and launched two SD10 missiles both Eagles was shot down and pilots ejected later who apologised for thier crimes

USAF sent apologys to Pakistan and said they have learnt thier lessons, azi was later quoted as saying that he enjoyed the encouter and is looking forward to downing some F22 Raptors

[blackvenom]

I am little doubful about this article. Javeed Chudhary has written same kind of article against former HEC chairman Dr. Atta ur Rehman when he was desperately trying to engage with developed countries to open engineering universities in Pakistan with collaboration of these countries. Javed went even so far calling all research papers of Rd Ata ur Rehman as work of his students and calling Dr. as thief who stole research of his students.

2nd thing is Why a disciplined person like AM Shahid Latif leaked information to a journalist that PAF will not reveal otherwise. So did he violated rules there? This is biggest cloud of doubt in my mind about this article as AVM is still with PAF and not retired yet. How he can go against openly about a decision made by PAF?

Then, From start we all knew that JF-17 will be made in PAC but not from first plane... this will be a gradual shift and as far as the said deal is concerned b/w Pakistan and China, both signed serial production agreement in PAC whereas this coloumn claims that Pakistan is now going to BUY Thunders from china as an imported item.

Just read sentences like;

-2000 main AM Shahid Latif ko JF-17 Thunder banane ka kam dia gia....
(In 2000, AM Shahid Latif was tasked to make Thunders )
- Air force k aik sabiq Afsar beech main aye aur .... In doosiyoo k waja se JF-17 main chand tabdeeliyan aa gayeen...
An Ex-Ariforce officier, who later went to PIA, came in between and he is from Jatoi tribe of Sindh and friend of Pakistani leaders and due this friendship JF-17 program went under some changes. Now PAF will BUY these planes from CATIC, China.

-Total worth of project is $10 billion and price for first batch is $ 1 billion.

As for the Dr. Atta issue, its quiet a well known issue amongst the engineering academic community of Pakistan. Needless to say no one is perfect and the issue in that case was the issue of authorship of the papers that were published.I'd rather not go beyond this on the subject.

As for the issue at hand , the grievances of AM latif are not stated to be against the PAF but against how the government has apparently handled the project which was concieved to go in a slightly different direction. Its not a decision of the PAF , the forces send there proposals and the purchasing and ultimate decision making is done by the govt. and thats what the whole issue discussed in the article is about. suspicious dealing and questionable terms

thats true

i can imagine it in the news, a Pakistan airforce JF17 took of from Peshawar air base and soon detected two bogies coming from the West the fighter pilot "aziqbal" identified these as two American F15 Eagles he was not impressed  

aziqbal then violently turned towards the two bogies and started to chase them but the Eagles ran off and azi was in no mood to play games and he intercepted them and launched two SD10 missiles both Eagles was shot down and pilots ejected later who apologised for thier crimes

USAF sent apologys to Pakistan and said they have learnt thier lessons, azi was later quoted as saying that he enjoyed the encouter and is looking forward to downing some F22 Raptors

not to mention aziqbal gave the american fighters a good spanking before sending them home :)

[PakShaheen]

As for the Dr. Atta issue, its quiet a well known issue amongst the engineering academic community of Pakistan. Needless to say no one is perfect and the issue in that case was the issue of authorship of the papers that were published.I'd rather not go beyond this on the subject.

As for the issue at hand , the grievances of AM latif are not stated to be against the PAF but against how the government has apparently handled the project which was concieved to go in a slightly different direction. Its not a decision of the PAF , the forces send there proposals and the purchasing and ultimate decision making is done by the govt. and thats what the whole issue discussed in the article is about. suspicious dealing and questionable terms

Authorship saga is all known but the way Javed Chaudhary put it in his column that was totally bizarre. Any how on it more on some other time.

Coming back topic, How the government has changed the path to a slightly different direction for JF-17 Thunder's procurement? Everything is going as it was known even before all this new Air Chief saga started. I don't now how writer is trying to convince the readers that AM Latif was only person behind the success of project. No doubt AM has magnificent record  in PAF and i am also among his admirer and wanted to see him next air chief after Tanveer Mehmood.

Questionable terms?? How? Which term to be exact? If there is any? I will really appreciate that if u can tell us something which is not already known.

[airomerix]

If we take a look, the writer is trying to tell us that Zardar's decision of appointing Air Marshal Rao Qamer is not a wise one but instead he was supposed to appoint Air Marshal Shahid Lateef. Isnt it
Well that is hillarious then. That writer is trying to creat cold war inbetween the family and friends of these two officers. This stupid author shall be hange first.

[blackvenom]

oh meray bhai,
the article says nothing about rao qamar, it say shahid latif was next inline but was not promoted due to him not getting the grace of a foreign country via its representative. Hence the govt. not considering him on the basis of such inputs. The point being made is that how much of a factor foriegn influence has become with this current govt. As far as PAF officers and their top brass is concerned i have a complete faith in them whether it would be AM shahid latif or AM rao qamar or anyone else for that matter. While AM rao qamar would be remembered as an excellent air cheif like his predecessor inshallah, AM shahid latif will always be remembered as a great contributor to the esteem and strength of Pakistan, regardless of whether he's airchief or not. They are all our heros.

thankyou for the pic sunny92.

Secondly , the article doesnt state that any damage has been done to the project but simply points out the involvement of a certain individual who is a retired paf officer and is close to the higher echelons of power in Pakistan which resulted in a shift in the original plan of combined manufacturing of the aircraft(58% Pakistan and 42% china); and the questionable issue being that the 1 billion dollar credit was taken at 6% whereas last year with the same company; deals for equipment were being closed at 1.5%. What sense lies in this situation that in a time where throughout the world interest rates have dropped to rock bottom levels to sustain business, here we have a situation where a higher interest rate is being paid for no apparent reason.Now you can rest assured that if there is a genuinely incorrect statement made by Mr. javed chaudhry the air force will definately take it up with him.

As for the question that shahid latif was not single handedly responsible, my dear friend projects are run by project leaders and it is under their leadership that either the project team succeeds or fails. No one can rob the team of the huge accomplishment of the jf-17 team and i salute each and every one of them. Afterall jf-17 is very close to our hearts is it not :) perhaps thats why most of us find themselves annoyed with this article. Anyway yes it is the combined work of the team involved but the leader shares a great burden of guiding the team and the project. All the revered personalities in their respective fields i.e. A.Q khan, Samar mubarikmand, imran khan(cricket) , even qaid e azam for that matter; they all led teams (big and small) and achieved great things but still they are justifiably given alot of credit and i dont think its unfair. Vision,motivation,driving force,hard work and some of the main elements that are required for any project to be a success, the roles are simple i.e. a leader leads a team to successfully complete a task.Lets give credit where it is due and lets give special credit and regard to those individuals who have been leaders in acheiving great things for Pakistan with their will,hard work and determination. I once again re-emphasize that everyone's role is appreciated but naturally special credit is given to the leaders. I hope you can understand my point.

In response to a certain post, do we have such disregard for a fellows life that for trivial reasons which may themselves be unfounded one would state that the concerned individual be executed?

I in my humble opinion think that its best that we wait on the follow up on this issue, i took the liberty of writing to mr.javed chaudhry on behalf of PDF with regards to this article and urged him to bring out into the open this issue. If possible perhaps you could also send him  an email or two or even a petition for that matter so that even he may know that alot of people want to know the basis of what he has stated. I mean wouldnt we rather have the story from the horse's mouth(figuratively speaking) rather than we all quarrelling about it over here and that way we could get all possible details.

Although i feel it might not be possible in this president's tenure atleast but i hope and pray that this apprehension is misplaced and is proven wrong.

[Speedray]

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt269/T...et/scan0014.jpg

Then a Wing Commander, Shahid Latif introduces a new dimension of firepower to Pakistan.

What a pic !!  Thanks  Sunny !  i can see the patriotism on the face of Shahid Latif !

I am little doubful about this article. Javeed Chudhary has written same kind of article against former HEC chairman Dr. Atta ur Rehman when he was desperately trying to engage with developed countries to open engineering universities in Pakistan with collaboration of these countries. Javed went even so far calling all research papers of Rd Ata ur Rehman as work of his students and calling Dr. as thief who stole research of his students.

I dont believe this  .. blaming  " all research papers of Rd Ata ur Rehman as work of his students and calling Dr. as thief who stole research of his students"  

he must have gone  nuts  ..brother do u have any link of that article by  Javed Chowdery ?

[SUNNY92]

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt269/T...et/scan0014.jpg

Then a Wing Commander, Shahid Latif introduces a new dimension of firepower to Pakistan.

People, pause and observe the youth, the physique and the pride in the young Shahid Latif.!!!!!!!!!!!!

It can only be described in one word.......................AWESOME.

[SUNNY92]

Just to follow up, well here is some intresting and also some confidential news,

We all know Air Marshal Shahid Latif was a first for many achivements but did you know that he was also the first Pakistani pilot to launch the Exocet anti-ship missile.!!!!!!!

Regarding his appointment, I have recived some sad news that Latif was lately suffering from an illness known as panic attack.

Although even I found this hard to belive but sadly it's from a very reliable source.

[blueazure]

JAVED CHAUDRY:-

This guy certainly seems no leftist, rightist or any other street journalist(atleast to me).He was been writing columns in Jang for almost a decade now.And now he has moved to roznama express.Im not a regular reader , but the guy certainly does research and knows a lot of ppl and has connections.Some of the figures that he gives can be questioned( inflated??) but over all ,,what he says has weight. ( at the end of the column he also mentions AM shahid latif's willingness to come on any forum to discuss,, this is no small thing)

PROMOTIONS:-

This is probably the most debated topic in military circles.I dont knw much abt how the AF system works, but in the army promotions NOTHING is certain. An officer might have a sword, good credentials, excellent ACR's throught ,taken all the courses with distinction,,, but still he cant be promoted..the army does find a point…..... any off hand comment, a casual remark,, a seemingly harmless question you asked at the unit dinner, is enough to jeopardize your carrer…
Getting upset is only natural

AM SHAHID LATIF:-
From what ive heard, the guy was simply brilliant..and according to one of my friends whose dad an AVM , shahid latif was certainly the more deserving.. and hes quite upset abt it too


The BIG POWER:-
Denying the role of the “the BIG power” in our affairs is simply self delusional..If their ambassador can meet our mininters,senators,opposition leaders, and their drones rain missiles on our villages on a daily basis,, whats it compared to blocking a promotion..????

[SUNNY92]

There is no doubt Shahid Latif was an officer of very high caliber with many "Firsts" to his credit, but as I stated earlier that he now suffers from a medical condition, just to confirm this sad eventuality, one just has to watch the Pakistan Day Parade 2008, where Shahid Latif is standing in for the Airchief while he performs the run-in.