Why Can't Pakistan Army Control The Swat Valley? Options

[Hellraiser006]

Here is a question for all of you guys who keep on boasting about the abilities of Pak Army... why have they not been able to control the Swat Valley even after months of operation?

Why couldnt Russia control Afghanistan or America control Viet Nam? There is no military solution to this problem. The solution is political, social and economic. We cannot control that valley because we have lost the confidence of the people. when the people are against you then no army can control a territory.Pakistan has invaded itself, it has made an enemy of the people of those regions and all in the name of a few dollars from the USA and a fear of getting attacked by the American Empire. It is not the fault of the army but those bastards who sent the army into a Pakistani region.

[PakShaheen]

Why couldnt Russia control Afghanistan or America control Viet Nam? There is no military solution to this problem. The solution is political, social and economic. We cannot control that valley because we have lost the confidence of the people. when the people are against you then no army can control a territory.Pakistan has invaded itself, it has made an enemy of the people of those regions and all in the name of a few dollars from the USA and a fear of getting attacked by the American Empire. It is not the fault of the army but those bastards who sent the army into a Pakistani region.

You are spot on but only thing you are missing is that catalyst in this decline in confidence between Army and Locals is not local;Someone setting Somewhere is helping Some people to create all this fuss.It is time Pakistani military and civil administration work together to implement 14 point security resolution by letter and spirit despite all the pressure from US/NATO. Then start all political, social and economic efforts as said by you.

[Mangla]

ARE PEOPLE SO STUPID TO NOT RELISE THE 80-90 % OF RESOURCES ARE DEPLOYED AT PAK-INDIAN BORDER.

Yep, I am shouting at these certain people.

[aziqbal]

ARE PEOPLE SO STUPID TO NOT RELISE THE 80-90 % OF RESOURCES ARE DEPLOYED AT PAK-INDIAN BORDER.

Yep, I am shouting at these certain people.

like it said before, there is not a military solution to this problem its political so doesnt matter how much military we have

US carpet bombed living daylights out of Vietnam with B52 over 12 weeks of bombing runs still Vietnam was not defeated means alternative solution must be sought

[coolio]

Why couldnt Russia control Afghanistan or America control Viet Nam? There is no military solution to this problem. The solution is political, social and economic. We cannot control that valley because we have lost the confidence of the people. when the people are against you then no army can control a territory.Pakistan has invaded itself, it has made an enemy of the people of those regions and all in the name of a few dollars from the USA and a fear of getting attacked by the American Empire. It is not the fault of the army but those bastards who sent the army into a Pakistani region.

My friend the only reason the army were sent in to SWAT was to control the insurgency led by fazlullah and his cronies hijacking the whole valley and trying to implement stone age Taliban laws yes FATA was entirely different it should have been avoided because there was already a tribal system in place to deal with these kind of problems but that is the biggest mistake Musharraf has made.

[Mangla]

like it said before, there is not a military solution to this problem its political so doesnt matter how much military we have

US carpet bombed living daylights out of Vietnam with B52 over 12 weeks of bombing runs still Vietnam was not defeated means alternative solution must be sought

Counter insurgency in Swat and Fata, demands tens of thousands of more soldiers and FC. Also local law enforcement should be expanded. Large scale military operations are effective in breaking down the militants into small groups, thus it is easier for civilian law enforcement to tackle the groups. More troops would deny safe areas for militants to train. As I posted earlier, uncoventional forces aim is to be the ones who choose the next battle, forcing them to react to your moves in the long term degrades them. Lastly, insurgent groups unlike Armies tend have very poor logistics, thats why denying large areas will reduce them in size thus become less of a threat. Small scale attacks are unlikely to attan victory.

Other non military measures are needed but when the insurgents think they are winning they are unlikely to negotiate, plus bargaining from position of weakeness is never good.

[Tamerlane]

Militants getting weapons form Afghanistan: IG FC

ISLAMABAD: Inspector General Frontier Corps NWFP Maj. Gen. Tariq Khan has said that militants in SWAT and tribal areas are getting arms and financial assistance from Afghanistan.

He told the Senate Committee for Defence that foreign hand was involved in worsening situation in Swat, FATA and other tribal areas.

Khan said the government has approved induction of 7000 men into FC, as well as the pay scale has been brought upto that of Army scale, in order to fight militants and terrorism in the affected area.

He said miscreants from Afghanistan, in connivance with local militants, were attacking forces in Pakistan. Media’s role to that regard was not appreciable, he said.

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/updates.asp?id=66967

[kaka007]

Army should work with locals to flush out Harami Mullah's from Swat. They should train, equip and support locals against such bastards as Swat if for Swatities not for FazuUllah and company. Strong army/paramilitary presence is utmost important but locals must knew their rights and duties as well.

[Hellraiser006]

My friend the only reason the army were sent in to SWAT was to control the insurgency led by fazlullah and his cronies hijacking the whole valley and trying to implement stone age Taliban laws yes FATA was entirely different it should have been avoided because there was already a tribal system in place to deal with these kind of problems but that is the biggest mistake Musharraf has made.

bro, the roots of this problem go back beyond Fazlullah. Pakistan's policy straight after 9-11 set the foundation for what is happening now. The US invasion of Afghanistan was always going to cause problems for us as the Russian invasion did, however, we learned no lessons. We betrayed the Taliban, did not secure our Eastern border and instead of rooting out the foreign militants one by one we decided to send in the armed forces and use the airforce against our own people! Against our better judgement and understanding of the area we pursued a policy drafted in the State Department who probably did not even know what a Pathan is and where they live. We tried to set brother against brother and this is the result. Which ever way you look at it, the Pakistan army is seen as an oppressive mercenary force sent by the US. Unless we understand that we will lose not only control of those areas but thet may even start to believe that independence is the only option left for them. We fu-cked this all up ourselves.

[JANA]

Militants getting weapons form Afghanistan: IG FC

ISLAMABAD: Inspector General Frontier Corps NWFP Maj. Gen. Tariq Khan has said that militants in SWAT and tribal areas are getting arms and financial assistance from Afghanistan.

He told the Senate Committee for Defence that foreign hand was involved in worsening situation in Swat, FATA and other tribal areas.

Khan said the government has approved induction of 7000 men into FC, as well as the pay scale has been brought upto that of Army scale, in order to fight militants and terrorism in the affected area.

He said miscreants from Afghanistan, in connivance with local militants, were attacking forces in Pakistan. Media’s role to that regard was not appreciable, he said.

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/updates.asp?id=66967

yes those recovered from militants of Swat in the past were also those weapons which are in use of Indian army.

[Skull-Buster]

That is an important question .... it was our military's Zia-ul-Haq who created the monsters that we are dealing with today ... this horrific mutation of our society came during this period of military domination .... and as a direct result of the military's policies ..... so let's put the blame where it lies...

another gem of a post.... (IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/hitwall.gif)

If Zia-ul-Haq lived for a few more years, we would have a moderate, stable and friendly neighbor in the west. this means that NWFP would have been a stable and peaceful place. Zia-ul-Haq supported the Afghan Mujahideen, and the AFGHAN MUJAHIDEEN WERE NOT TALIBAN. Infact, most of the Northern Alliance was part of the Afghan Mujahideen too. Zia-ul-Haq was a uniting force for the Afghans. It was after Zia-ul-Haq's death that the Benazir govt decided to support the Taliban. THE TALIBAN DID NOT EVEN EXIST DURING ZIA-UL-HAQ'S TIME.

[JANA]

another gem of a post.... (IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/hitwall.gif)

If Zia-ul-Haq lived for a few more years, we would have a moderate, stable and friendly neighbor in the west. this means that NWFP would have been a stable and peaceful place. Zia-ul-Haq supported the Afghan Mujahideen, and the AFGHAN MUJAHIDEEN WERE NOT TALIBAN. Infact, most of the Northern Alliance was part of the Afghan Mujahideen too. Zia-ul-Haq was a uniting force for the Afghans. It was after Zia-ul-Haq's death that the Benazir govt decided to support the Taliban. THE TALIBAN DID NOT EVEN EXIST DURING ZIA-UL-HAQ'S TIME.

Ka hagha jamday woo no kotak ba ye warta niwalay wa kho .

[PakShaheen]

Jana
-----

Ka hagha jamday woo no kotak ba ye warta niwalay wa kho .

Translation Pleaseeeeeeeeee...... :)

[ali23]

* Maj Gen Tariq tells Senate Committee on Defence FCR cannot be withdrawn
* Says use of military alone will not solve problems in Tribal Areas
* Afghan refugees settled must be repatriated
* Tribal lashkars cannot fight Taliban without support of government
* FATA official says dialogue won’t be effective

By Tahir Niaz

ISLAMABAD: The tribal system should be restored and a new FATA cabinet should be formed under the NWFP governor to look after the affairs of the Tribal Areas, Frontier Corps (FC) Inspector General Maj Gen Tariq Khan has suggested as a ‘suitable solution’ to the problems in the region.

This recommendation – which was made during a briefing on the ‘Security Operation in FATA’ on December 18 to the Senate Standing Committee on Defence – was part of the committee’s report on the briefing which was tabled in the Senate on Friday.

The FC inspector general also proposed that FATA MNAs report directly to the NWFP governor – which would be a ‘more hands-on approach’.

FCR: Gen Tariq told the Senate committee that the Frontier Crimes Regulation (FCR) could not be withdrawn – as “it is a system that has evolved over centuries”.

He also called for more equipment for the FC to facilitate communication and mobility. He said $395 million of US aid had initially been allocated to the force, but the sum had been slashed to $75 and the FC had so far only received equipment worth $30 million.

Military: About the future strategy for the Tribal Areas, Tariq said the use of military alone would not solve the problem. He said a judicial system needed to be in place to deal with the Taliban.
He told the Senate body that Afghan refugees in Pakistan needed to be repatriated. “Their comfort zone has risen to the extant that they carry Pakistani ID Cards and passports,” he said.

The inspector general said that the sectarian tensions in Kurram Agency were now under control. But said there was still a need to settle long-standing issues of the area through political will and development in the region.

Lashkars: He told the committee members that lashkars had been raised in the Tribal Areas to fight the Taliban, but without proper government support, the tribesmen could not deal with the militant group. He said that following a military operation in Bajaur, the “centre of gravity of the militants is now emanating from Waziristan, and if not checked, militancy will continue”. He further told the committee that families in Bajaur had been asked by the Taliban to support the group financially.

Contrary to the recommendation by the FC inspector general calling for dialogue to resolve FATA problems, FATA Additional Chief Secretary Habibullah Khan told the committee that talks were not the right way forward. He said, “The real question is who should we hold dialogue with ... on what terms, did the militants ask for it and are they willing for a settlement?”
He also told the committee that Taliban supply lines and funding were still intact. “There is a credibility gap between the government action and public perception,” he said. “The political parties, civil society and religious leaders are not making a united stand over the issue."



http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?p...1-1-2009_pg7_15

P.S:( IMO the general's comments may have been misquoted, he said: He said "there was still a need to settle long-standing issues of the area through political will and development in the region."He did not use the word negotiation or something like it)

[kaka007]

Ka hagha jamday woo no kotak ba ye warta niwalay wa kho .

Translation Pleaseeeeeeeeee...... :)

Translation: Kha leena Khana jummay ko Kohat mein, abi tu Dou Niwalay khaoo na (IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/LOLANI.GIF)

My best Shot! (IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/BVICTORY.GIF)

[Abu Basit]

Why couldnt Russia control Afghanistan or America control Viet Nam? There is no military solution to this problem. The solution is political, social and economic. We cannot control that valley because we have lost the confidence of the people. when the people are against you then no army can control a territory.Pakistan has invaded itself, it has made an enemy of the people of those regions and all in the name of a few dollars from the USA and a fear of getting attacked by the American Empire. It is not the fault of the army but those bastards who sent the army into a Pakistani region.

this post is quoted in Reuters .

http://blogs.reuters.com/Pakistan/2009/02/...ing-insurgency/

[JANA]

this post is quoted in Reuters .

http://blogs.reuters.com/Pakistan/2009/02/...ing-insurgency/

(IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/smile.gif) not so fast ;) i have already posted that here in Swat dilema thread


http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.ph...0&start=120

[Abu Basit]

(IMG:style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/smile.gif) not so fast ;) i have already posted that here in Swat dilema thread


http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/index.ph...0&start=120

you gave the news and i gave the Post~ hehehe