U.S. Capitalism Is Dying: Beware the ruling class attempt to save it!
Mary 25 Sep 2008 13:38 GMT
http://www.indymedia...09/913653.shtml
"The events of the last ten days on Wall Street represent a new and more destabilizing phase of the turmoil gripping financial institutions and markets in the U.S. A financial crisis has been unfolding for more than a year. It is now the most serious financial crisis of U.S. capitalism since the Great Depression of the 1930s. And it is by no means contained or under control.
The financial edifice of U.S. imperialism is in danger of crumbling. And the U.S. ruling class is cobbling together desperate measures to prevent wholesale collapse."
U.S. Capitalism Is Dying: Beware the ruling class attempt to save it!
The events of the last ten days on Wall Street represent a new and more destabilizing phase of the turmoil gripping financial institutions and markets in the U.S. A financial crisis has been unfolding for more than a year. It is now the most serious financial crisis of U.S. capitalism since the Great Depression of the 1930s. And it is by no means contained or under control.
The financial edifice of U.S. imperialism is in danger of crumbling. And the U.S. ruling class is cobbling together desperate measures to prevent wholesale collapse.
This analysis examines the recent eruptions on Wall Street of mid- and late September and the deeper structural causes of the crisis.
I. Wall Street Panics, the Guardians of U.S. Capitalism Scramble
A). A Week of Deepening Financial Crisis
Two of the last two independent investment banks on Wall Street ceased to exist in mid-September. In a matter of hours, Lehman Brothers went bankrupt on September 15, while Merrill Lynch was forced into liquidation and then absorbed by Bank of America. This follows the government-promoted buyout in April of Bear Stearns, another giant investment banking firm that was on the ropes, by JPMorgan Chase.
It was only several weeks earlier that the U.S. government had taken over the two major and failing mortgage-finance giants--Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. At the time, this takeover was presented as providing an effective firewall against future financial eruptions. But it proved to be no more than the patching up of a pothole during an earthquake. This past week the government had to take over the American International Group (AIG), the giant insurance-financial firm.
AIG had over a trillion dollars in assets. It had earned enormous profits from insuring mortgage-backed investments circulating in the financial system that were held by other banks. But this has turned into a disaster. Here is some of what happened:
Through deceit and aggressive marketing, banks pushed mortgages on people. The Federal Reserve Bank had pumped low-cost funds into the banking system to prop up mortgage loans. These loans were then combined into larger groups of loans by investment banks (like Lehman Brothers) and turned into financial products that were sold on financial markets. All kinds of lending took place with these original loans as collateral. But when housing prices fell, and mortgages could not be paid, much of this collateral became worthless.
AIG was insuring much of this lending against the risk of loss. But as the losses mounted astronomically, AIG could neither cover the costs of backing this debt nor borrow funds on the financial markets to keep itself afloat.
The financial markets had basically lost confidence, and AIG’s assets tumbled in value. AIG was in danger of collapse. But if AIG went under, the probability was great that it would have taken down other financial institutions with it. This forced the government’s hand.
Normally, so-called bad debt is marketed at distress prices. During the financial storm of mid-September, not only were there no takers for debt but it also proved impossible for the financial markets to establish any kind of value on this debt.
As the pace of the financial crisis grew more frenetic during the week of September 15, the U.S. ruling class was faced with a two-fold danger: additional and cascading losses and bankruptcies in the financial sector; and the possible choking up of lending channels, which could send the economy as a whole into a rapid downward spiral.
On September 19th, the U.S. government announced what will likely turn out to be the largest bail-out operation in U.S. history. Its initial cost is $700 billion, and this is on top of the $200 billion earmarked to shore up Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and the $85 billion to bail out AIG.
B). International Dimensions
This is a rolling financial and credit crisis. It is amplifying internationally with bursts of instability. In the midst of last week’s U.S. market gyrations, the Russian stock market sank and shut down for two days. In other parts of the world, concern spread about whether dollar-based loans in global markets would continue on the scale necessary to sustain daily business operations. In response, the central banks of Germany, Japan, England, Canada, and Switzerland pumped some $185 billion into the financial markets.
And investor worry is mounting in East Asia. China, Japan, and South Korea, for instance, count on the U.S. as a major export market.
One of the most significant features of world growth and expansion over the past decade has been the deepening integration of the world capitalist economy. This is happening both on the level of production and trade—like the parts that go into an automobile being manufacturing in different factories around the world. And it is happening at the level of finance—where banks are more globally and tightly interlinked with one another through chains of borrowing and lending and even, as in the case of AIG, insuring the risks of borrowing and lending.
The rescue operation announced by the U.S. government was motivated, on the one hand, by the need to stanch the bleeding of the U.S. financial system; and, on the other, by the need to restore international confidence in the U.S. economy.
0
Recent Us Financial Crisis And Failure Of Capitalism!
Started by
Caesar
, Sep 26 2008 01:21 AM
58 replies to this topic
#41
Caesar
-
- Senior Members
-
- 7,155 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
- Location:Australia
- Interests:Current Affairs, politics, Universe, technology, tennis, rugby, beach, and Girls.
- Location:Sydney
Posted 12 October 2008 - 03:10 AM
Humanity's past on this planet is based on the biggest Lie in History--and the same Lie will destroy humans in future! The Truth is infront of us and yet we refuse to accept it, we refuse to see it, we refuse to listen to it. Humans are intelligent and yet the dumbest beings ever!
#42
Jazba-e-Kashmir
-
- Senior Members
-
- 6,538 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
Posted 12 October 2008 - 12:20 PM
Salaam
Just a thought: Can it be true that the pro-warlords lobbies in Washington have overspent money on "war on terror" and have finally lead into this globl economic crisis?
Just a thought: Can it be true that the pro-warlords lobbies in Washington have overspent money on "war on terror" and have finally lead into this globl economic crisis?
#43
Caesar
-
- Senior Members
-
- 7,155 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
- Location:Australia
- Interests:Current Affairs, politics, Universe, technology, tennis, rugby, beach, and Girls.
- Location:Sydney
Posted 12 October 2008 - 05:14 PM
QUOTE(Jazba-e-Kashmir @ Oct 13 2008, 05:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Salaam
Just a thought: Can it be true that the pro-warlords lobbies in Washington have overspent money on "war on terror" and have finally lead into this globl economic crisis?
Just a thought: Can it be true that the pro-warlords lobbies in Washington have overspent money on "war on terror" and have finally lead into this globl economic crisis?
Yes to a certain extent this is true. According to NY Times in January 2007 the total cost of only Iraq war was 2 TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!! You can see the disaster of Bush and Cheney and the Neo-Cons. They have not only destroyed US economically but also the rest of the world!!!!
QUOTE
http://www.nytimes.c...7leonhardt.html
January 17, 2007
What $1.2 Trillion Can Buy
By DAVID LEONHARDT
The human mind isn’t very well equipped to make sense of a figure like $1.2 trillion. We don’t deal with a trillion of anything in our daily lives, and so when we come across such a big number, it is hard to distinguish it from any other big number. Millions, billions, a trillion — they all start to sound the same.
The way to come to grips with $1.2 trillion is to forget about the number itself and think instead about what you could buy with the money. When you do that, a trillion stops sounding anything like millions or billions.
For starters, $1.2 trillion would pay for an unprecedented public health campaign — a doubling of cancer research funding, treatment for every American whose diabetes or heart disease is now going unmanaged and a global immunization campaign to save millions of children’s lives.
Combined, the cost of running those programs for a decade wouldn’t use up even half our money pot. So we could then turn to poverty and education, starting with universal preschool for every 3- and 4-year-old child across the country. The city of New Orleans could also receive a huge increase in reconstruction funds.
The final big chunk of the money could go to national security. The recommendations of the 9/11 Commission that have not been put in place — better baggage and cargo screening, stronger measures against nuclear proliferation — could be enacted. Financing for the war in Afghanistan could be increased to beat back the Taliban’s recent gains, and a peacekeeping force could put a stop to the genocide in Darfur.
All that would be one way to spend $1.2 trillion. Here would be another:
The war in Iraq.
In the days before the war almost five years ago, the Pentagon estimated that it would cost about $50 billion. Democratic staff members in Congress largely agreed. Lawrence Lindsey, a White House economic adviser, was a bit more realistic, predicting that the cost could go as high as $200 billion, but President Bush fired him in part for saying so.
These estimates probably would have turned out to be too optimistic even if the war had gone well. Throughout history, people have typically underestimated the cost of war, as William Nordhaus, a Yale economist, has pointed out.
But the deteriorating situation in Iraq has caused the initial predictions to be off the mark by a scale that is difficult to fathom. The operation itself — the helicopters, the tanks, the fuel needed to run them, the combat pay for enlisted troops, the salaries of reservists and contractors, the rebuilding of Iraq — is costing more than $300 million a day, estimates Scott Wallsten, an economist in Washington.
That translates into a couple of billion dollars a week and, over the full course of the war, an eventual total of $700 billion in direct spending.
The two best-known analyses of the war’s costs agree on this figure, but they diverge from there. Linda Bilmes, at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, and Joseph Stiglitz, a Nobel laureate and former Clinton administration adviser, put a total price tag of more than $2 trillion on the war. They include a number of indirect costs, like the economic stimulus that the war funds would have provided if they had been spent in this country.
Mr. Wallsten, who worked with Katrina Kosec, another economist, argues for a figure closer to $1 trillion in today’s dollars. My own estimate falls on the conservative side, largely because it focuses on the actual money that Americans would have been able to spend in the absence of a war. I didn’t even attempt to put a monetary value on the more than 3,000 American deaths in the war.
Besides the direct military spending, I’m including the gas tax that the war has effectively imposed on American families (to the benefit of oil-producing countries like Iran, Russia and Saudi Arabia). At the start of 2003, a barrel of oil was selling for $30. Since then, the average price has been about $50. Attributing even $5 of this difference to the conflict adds another $150 billion to the war’s price tag, Ms. Bilmes and Mr. Stiglitz say.
The war has also guaranteed some big future expenses. Replacing the hardware used in Iraq and otherwise getting the United States military back into its prewar fighting shape could cost $100 billion. And if this war’s veterans receive disability payments and medical care at the same rate as veterans of the first gulf war, their health costs will add up to $250 billion. If the disability rate matches Vietnam’s, the number climbs higher. Either way, Ms. Bilmes says, “It’s like a miniature Medicare.”
In economic terms, you can think of these medical costs as the difference between how productive the soldiers would have been as, say, computer programmers or firefighters and how productive they will be as wounded veterans. In human terms, you can think of soldiers like Jason Poole, a young corporal profiled in The New York Times last year. Before the war, he had planned to be a teacher. After being hit by a roadside bomb in 2004, he spent hundreds of hours learning to walk and talk again, and he now splits his time between a community college and a hospital in Northern California.
Whatever number you use for the war’s total cost, it will tower over costs that normally seem prohibitive. Right now, including everything, the war is costing about $200 billion a year.
Treating heart disease and diabetes, by contrast, would probably cost about $50 billion a year. The remaining 9/11 Commission recommendations — held up in Congress partly because of their cost — might cost somewhat less. Universal preschool would be $35 billion. In Afghanistan, $10 billion could make a real difference. At the National Cancer Institute, annual budget is about $6 billion.
“This war has skewed our thinking about resources,” said Mr. Wallsten, a senior fellow at the Progress and Freedom Foundation, a conservative-leaning research group. “In the context of the war, $20 billion is nothing.”
As it happens, $20 billion is not a bad ballpark estimate for the added cost of Mr. Bush’s planned surge in troops. By itself, of course, that price tag doesn’t mean the surge is a bad idea. If it offers the best chance to stabilize Iraq, then it may well be the right option.
But the standard shouldn’t simply be whether a surge is better than the most popular alternative — a far-less-expensive political strategy that includes getting tough with the Iraqi government. The standard should be whether the surge would be better than the political strategy plus whatever else might be accomplished with the $20 billion.
This time, it would be nice to have that discussion before the troops reach Iraq.
leonhardt@nytimes.com
January 17, 2007
What $1.2 Trillion Can Buy
By DAVID LEONHARDT
The human mind isn’t very well equipped to make sense of a figure like $1.2 trillion. We don’t deal with a trillion of anything in our daily lives, and so when we come across such a big number, it is hard to distinguish it from any other big number. Millions, billions, a trillion — they all start to sound the same.
The way to come to grips with $1.2 trillion is to forget about the number itself and think instead about what you could buy with the money. When you do that, a trillion stops sounding anything like millions or billions.
For starters, $1.2 trillion would pay for an unprecedented public health campaign — a doubling of cancer research funding, treatment for every American whose diabetes or heart disease is now going unmanaged and a global immunization campaign to save millions of children’s lives.
Combined, the cost of running those programs for a decade wouldn’t use up even half our money pot. So we could then turn to poverty and education, starting with universal preschool for every 3- and 4-year-old child across the country. The city of New Orleans could also receive a huge increase in reconstruction funds.
The final big chunk of the money could go to national security. The recommendations of the 9/11 Commission that have not been put in place — better baggage and cargo screening, stronger measures against nuclear proliferation — could be enacted. Financing for the war in Afghanistan could be increased to beat back the Taliban’s recent gains, and a peacekeeping force could put a stop to the genocide in Darfur.
All that would be one way to spend $1.2 trillion. Here would be another:
The war in Iraq.
In the days before the war almost five years ago, the Pentagon estimated that it would cost about $50 billion. Democratic staff members in Congress largely agreed. Lawrence Lindsey, a White House economic adviser, was a bit more realistic, predicting that the cost could go as high as $200 billion, but President Bush fired him in part for saying so.
These estimates probably would have turned out to be too optimistic even if the war had gone well. Throughout history, people have typically underestimated the cost of war, as William Nordhaus, a Yale economist, has pointed out.
But the deteriorating situation in Iraq has caused the initial predictions to be off the mark by a scale that is difficult to fathom. The operation itself — the helicopters, the tanks, the fuel needed to run them, the combat pay for enlisted troops, the salaries of reservists and contractors, the rebuilding of Iraq — is costing more than $300 million a day, estimates Scott Wallsten, an economist in Washington.
That translates into a couple of billion dollars a week and, over the full course of the war, an eventual total of $700 billion in direct spending.
The two best-known analyses of the war’s costs agree on this figure, but they diverge from there. Linda Bilmes, at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, and Joseph Stiglitz, a Nobel laureate and former Clinton administration adviser, put a total price tag of more than $2 trillion on the war. They include a number of indirect costs, like the economic stimulus that the war funds would have provided if they had been spent in this country.
Mr. Wallsten, who worked with Katrina Kosec, another economist, argues for a figure closer to $1 trillion in today’s dollars. My own estimate falls on the conservative side, largely because it focuses on the actual money that Americans would have been able to spend in the absence of a war. I didn’t even attempt to put a monetary value on the more than 3,000 American deaths in the war.
Besides the direct military spending, I’m including the gas tax that the war has effectively imposed on American families (to the benefit of oil-producing countries like Iran, Russia and Saudi Arabia). At the start of 2003, a barrel of oil was selling for $30. Since then, the average price has been about $50. Attributing even $5 of this difference to the conflict adds another $150 billion to the war’s price tag, Ms. Bilmes and Mr. Stiglitz say.
The war has also guaranteed some big future expenses. Replacing the hardware used in Iraq and otherwise getting the United States military back into its prewar fighting shape could cost $100 billion. And if this war’s veterans receive disability payments and medical care at the same rate as veterans of the first gulf war, their health costs will add up to $250 billion. If the disability rate matches Vietnam’s, the number climbs higher. Either way, Ms. Bilmes says, “It’s like a miniature Medicare.”
In economic terms, you can think of these medical costs as the difference between how productive the soldiers would have been as, say, computer programmers or firefighters and how productive they will be as wounded veterans. In human terms, you can think of soldiers like Jason Poole, a young corporal profiled in The New York Times last year. Before the war, he had planned to be a teacher. After being hit by a roadside bomb in 2004, he spent hundreds of hours learning to walk and talk again, and he now splits his time between a community college and a hospital in Northern California.
Whatever number you use for the war’s total cost, it will tower over costs that normally seem prohibitive. Right now, including everything, the war is costing about $200 billion a year.
Treating heart disease and diabetes, by contrast, would probably cost about $50 billion a year. The remaining 9/11 Commission recommendations — held up in Congress partly because of their cost — might cost somewhat less. Universal preschool would be $35 billion. In Afghanistan, $10 billion could make a real difference. At the National Cancer Institute, annual budget is about $6 billion.
“This war has skewed our thinking about resources,” said Mr. Wallsten, a senior fellow at the Progress and Freedom Foundation, a conservative-leaning research group. “In the context of the war, $20 billion is nothing.”
As it happens, $20 billion is not a bad ballpark estimate for the added cost of Mr. Bush’s planned surge in troops. By itself, of course, that price tag doesn’t mean the surge is a bad idea. If it offers the best chance to stabilize Iraq, then it may well be the right option.
But the standard shouldn’t simply be whether a surge is better than the most popular alternative — a far-less-expensive political strategy that includes getting tough with the Iraqi government. The standard should be whether the surge would be better than the political strategy plus whatever else might be accomplished with the $20 billion.
This time, it would be nice to have that discussion before the troops reach Iraq.
leonhardt@nytimes.com
Humanity's past on this planet is based on the biggest Lie in History--and the same Lie will destroy humans in future! The Truth is infront of us and yet we refuse to accept it, we refuse to see it, we refuse to listen to it. Humans are intelligent and yet the dumbest beings ever!
#44
Dizasta
-
- Senior Members
-
- 8,627 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
- Location:Parachinar, Pakistan
Posted 12 October 2008 - 06:00 PM
US, UK, EU and the rest of the western world as we know it, is about to get pummelled really hard with the current economic crises. I just hope that it goes from bad to worse for them. They're the ones who need to pay for their centuries of colonialism, oppression and current legalized system of theft, otherwise known as the global economic practices. Burn baby burn!!
........ when the first drop of a Munafiq's blood drops in the Kaa'bah ........
........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........
........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........
........ it shall be done, as it is said "Kun Faya Koon
By, Mujahid Hosein (son of Imran Hosein)
........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........
........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........
........ it shall be done, as it is said "Kun Faya Koon
By, Mujahid Hosein (son of Imran Hosein)
#45
Ron
-
- Jr. Members
-
- 24 posts
CADET
Posted 12 October 2008 - 09:09 PM
QUOTE(Dizasta @ Oct 12 2008, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
US, UK, EU and the rest of the western world as we know it, is about to get pummelled really hard with the current economic crises. I just hope that it goes from bad to worse for them. They're the ones who need to pay for their centuries of colonialism, oppression and current legalized system of theft, otherwise known as the global economic practices. Burn baby burn!!
Bad to worse for us.... have you thought this through? Who are you gonna beg when that happens, Taliban boy?
#46
Saqr
-
- Moderator
-
- 18,102 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
- Location:Canada
Posted 12 October 2008 - 10:41 PM
QUOTE(Ron @ Oct 12 2008, 11:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bad to worse for us.... have you thought this through? Who are you gonna beg when that happens, Taliban boy?Believe it or not, Dizasta is around the Tribal Areas and is doing his part to develop the communication base of the region's infrastructure. Not only is he from there, but he currently lives there and is doing productive work to help the people. His team doesn't get support from the West, they're on all on their own...but their work is setting the foundation for higher learning and exposure of the local people to the world.
Frankly speaking..."Taliban boy" is helping the people, while your boys are using their Full Spectrum Warrior video game skills to go around fighting on behalf of feudal drug lords by carpet bombing and using depleted uranium shells. You've accomplished a lot by making enemies of many secular nationalist Pakistanis on this board, and have reinforced the anger of "Taliban boys" too.
#47
Caesar
-
- Senior Members
-
- 7,155 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
- Location:Australia
- Interests:Current Affairs, politics, Universe, technology, tennis, rugby, beach, and Girls.
- Location:Sydney
Posted 12 October 2008 - 11:57 PM
If this heinous system Capitalism dies then it will mean begining of a new era and a new system of finance. Pakistan and countries like Pakistan will also get a fresh start--everyone will--so there will be no need for begging.
Humanity's past on this planet is based on the biggest Lie in History--and the same Lie will destroy humans in future! The Truth is infront of us and yet we refuse to accept it, we refuse to see it, we refuse to listen to it. Humans are intelligent and yet the dumbest beings ever!
#48
Dizasta
-
- Senior Members
-
- 8,627 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
- Location:Parachinar, Pakistan
Posted 13 October 2008 - 11:50 AM
QUOTE(Ron @ Oct 13 2008, 04:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bad to worse for us.... have you thought this through? Who are you gonna beg when that happens, Taliban boy?You know, it always amuses me to see how retarded your kind can really be. One, you're not an American, cuz what would a yank wanna do on a Pakistani forum. You belong to the sub-human, lowlife kind, indian. Cuz only an indian can be that mentally handicap to ask such a stupid question. We're Pukhtuns, we live in villages, produce our own consumer goods, build our own weapons and have our own private armies. You're retarded enough to think that we need your money!!! That thing you call money, made of paper? No wonder you guys, yanks, poms and the rest of the western world is about to get pummelled in your rear big time!!
You got the begging bit all wrong, rat. Its parasites like zardari who big around, because thats the only thing they know. To live off other's and their hard earnings. That traitor is your dog, working for you and the americans here in Islamabad. And do you know what we do with traitors? Ever heard of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, or Benazir Bhutto? Soon it will be your dog, zardari's turn and when it is, your (indian) days are numbered in our terrirtories. Its pathetic how you rat-indians try so hard and yet we see through you from a mile. Do yourself a favor, rat and go mix with your kind.
Lastly ... pretty boy, try using your brain next time around, when talking to some one who is infact superior to you in intellect. Now go f--k yourself!
........ when the first drop of a Munafiq's blood drops in the Kaa'bah ........
........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........
........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........
........ it shall be done, as it is said "Kun Faya Koon
By, Mujahid Hosein (son of Imran Hosein)
........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........
........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........
........ it shall be done, as it is said "Kun Faya Koon
By, Mujahid Hosein (son of Imran Hosein)
#49
clutch
-
- Senior Members
-
- 4,613 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
Posted 13 October 2008 - 01:52 PM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everybody is entitled to my opinion!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I am willing to make." -- Lord Farquaad, "Shrek"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
`Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich.'
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary idea! G.Orwell
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everybody is entitled to my opinion!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I am willing to make." -- Lord Farquaad, "Shrek"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
`Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich.'
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary idea! G.Orwell
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#50
Ron
-
- Jr. Members
-
- 24 posts
CADET
Posted 13 October 2008 - 02:48 PM
QUOTE(Dizasta @ Oct 13 2008, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We're Pukhtuns....... produce our own consumer goods
Like what, Islamic rage boy?
#51
Bilal
-
- Senior Members
-
- 3,134 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
Posted 13 October 2008 - 03:39 PM
--Edited--
All the chaos in Pakistan is just a self fulfilling prophesy....
Through the great desert dunes, where the moon was full and white, through the great mountain pass, upto the fortress on the ridge that guarded the entrance to the other side.
King Faisal: “I hope you will forgive my outpouring of emotions, but when I think that our Holy Mosque in Jerusalem is being invaded and desecrated, I ask God that if I am unable to undertake Holy Jihad, then I should not live a moment more.”
Through the great desert dunes, where the moon was full and white, through the great mountain pass, upto the fortress on the ridge that guarded the entrance to the other side.
King Faisal: “I hope you will forgive my outpouring of emotions, but when I think that our Holy Mosque in Jerusalem is being invaded and desecrated, I ask God that if I am unable to undertake Holy Jihad, then I should not live a moment more.”
#52
Dizasta
-
- Senior Members
-
- 8,627 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
- Location:Parachinar, Pakistan
Posted 13 October 2008 - 05:00 PM
QUOTE(Ron @ Oct 13 2008, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Like what, Islamic rage boy?What a sad little soul! I can see why you're so frustrated with yourself. Perhaps a run in with pedophile when you were a kid? That kinda stuff happens alot on your end of the world! Don't worry, its not your fault child, you were just born that way. You may wanna get yourself check by a shrink, he may be able to help you with your childhood sexu@l abuse. Now go home and cry to mama, that a ordinary Pakistani, whopped your pathetic butt all over PDF!!!!
........ when the first drop of a Munafiq's blood drops in the Kaa'bah ........
........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........
........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........
........ it shall be done, as it is said "Kun Faya Koon
By, Mujahid Hosein (son of Imran Hosein)
........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........
........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........
........ it shall be done, as it is said "Kun Faya Koon
By, Mujahid Hosein (son of Imran Hosein)
#53
platinum786
-
- +Senior Moderator
-
- 26,477 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
- Location:UK
Posted 13 October 2008 - 05:53 PM
QUOTE(Ron @ Oct 13 2008, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Like what, Islamic rage boy?How about the guns that they shot dead your inbred hick cousin with in Afghanistan?
They're also big in logisitics, the drugs that your momma OD'd on... guesses who shipped them? Forget UPS.
Follow PDF on twitter @Official_PDF
-=-=-=-=Faith, Unity, Discipline-=-=-=-=
Kashmir is the jugular Vein of Pakistan and no nation
or country would tolerate its jugular vein remains
under the sword of the enemy. -Muhammed Ali Jinnah
-=-=-=-=FREE KASHMIR-=-=-=-=
These eye's do not wander in lust, for my
queen of hearts has graced them with love.
"We gave our today for your tommorrow ".
-=-=-=-=Faith, Unity, Discipline-=-=-=-=
Kashmir is the jugular Vein of Pakistan and no nation
or country would tolerate its jugular vein remains
under the sword of the enemy. -Muhammed Ali Jinnah
-=-=-=-=FREE KASHMIR-=-=-=-=
These eye's do not wander in lust, for my
queen of hearts has graced them with love.
"We gave our today for your tommorrow ".
#54
mememe
-
- Full Members
-
- 166 posts
COLONEL
Posted 14 October 2008 - 10:14 AM
lol these indians again.
stop dreaming that you are american or european you are simply not you just an indian
did you drink pint of cow ###### today ? or did you bathe in that HOLY river with dead carcasses ? also don't forget to share your milk with the rats oh i forgot that you lot are rats yourselves anyway so don't forget to share the milk with your country "men and women"
oh btw i also heard that india has the biggest number of female children prostitutes in the world so do you intend to send your sisters or daughters to join them too ?
stop dreaming that you are american or european you are simply not you just an indian
did you drink pint of cow ###### today ? or did you bathe in that HOLY river with dead carcasses ? also don't forget to share your milk with the rats oh i forgot that you lot are rats yourselves anyway so don't forget to share the milk with your country "men and women"
oh btw i also heard that india has the biggest number of female children prostitutes in the world so do you intend to send your sisters or daughters to join them too ?
#55
BaburMissile
-
- Senior Members
-
- 6,989 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
Posted 14 October 2008 - 11:50 AM
QUOTE(Ron @ Oct 13 2008, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Like what, Islamic rage boy?What a stupid Hilly Billy... I haven't seen worse.
#56
warhead
-
- Full Members
-
- 611 posts
MAJOR
- Interests:missiles, secret stuff, nasty devices
Posted 14 October 2008 - 11:57 AM
Totally planned system and totally free economic system where state role is only watching the show are both quick
judgements to solve the same problem and they are both extremes and eventually it comes to a stage that these
approaches wont work any longer.
It seems that the invisible hand of the free market does not exist but it will continue to be used in schools to
educate children.It shouldn't be the survival of the fittest as in this brutal capitalism but to make everyone
fitter justly to keep the engine running.
Unemployment is on the rise and capitalism lacks the elements to effectively utilize the idle potential in society.
Clearly the invisible hand does not balance supply and demand to reduce unemployment, there are less and less fits who survive.
State planning is needed to regulate competition and make the demand for workers stable so that the idle potential is reduced to minimum
aiming to make it zero.There should be state spending to educate the unemployed and planning to find and put them
in jobs.A strong state sector might be required as well for this purpose.
Income difference is a related issue which is continiusly increasing day by day with the free hand of the market.
We see homeless collecting from garbage on one hand and on the other hand we see individuals spending millions for
several days of vacation. This can't be explained with the motto that they deserve to live better since they worked
harder as this much of difference in society's income distribution is clearly injustice and it blocks the poor from
achieving the results of their work seeing labor as only a factor of cost. Efficient taxation directed to education
opportunities to the poor is a must and planning is required to send them to jobs.Also interest rates of banks
should be checked strictly. The teachings that we freely,without pressure choose to do like Zakat(charity) and our
banking system are also positive factors to enhance economy.
Difficult part about capitalism is that it has no restrictions to form secret societies that would eventually take
over control unjustly. it is another opening in capitalism that every interest group can exploit
with ease and invade key positions in vital industries. one can approve the work of an individual saying that
he,she is from my jamaat and our group needs more power even if the work of that individual is not as
worthy as another person's work who honestly worked harder and better which results in injustice. It also leads to
exploitation of people outside these interest groups and even wars to protect the power groups ideological and/or
financial interests .It generally exploits the faiths of people as well.For example the current condition of Israel(mainly
the borders after 1967) cannot be simply explained by they needed a country after ww2 because with its military
might and post 1967 borders by forcefully owning areas including Jerusalem it can easily(it very possibly does in
these power groups) portray itself as the Israel in the Bible who returned to the holy land as claimed in the Bible
and many people even well educated people take this country as the real deal in Bible with enough image management in media etc.
outlets.A similar example is the dictatorial caliphate fantasies of talibans-hiztahrir granting power to these power
groups and aiming at muslims and shamefully many educated people easily eat it.
You can't leave this opening to be adjusted by the invisible hand of the free market. Even if economy collapses the
power groups escape with resources and they would have much more than enough money to survive and
the outside people would suffer.
Solutions can be different but we can share ideas to solve these problems.
I think state ownership and free price determination as in the case of China, or state ownership to some sufficient
degree or cooperate ownership,profit sharing as in the concept of labor managed market economy would give more
power to the workers and getting at the top or other vital positions won't mean that a few people in same interest
groups would have almost total control over the future of instututions.Also people are free to join social groups
to share experience,sense of belonging etc. but these groups should be totally transparent(rituals etc. everything)
and carefully audited so that they won't be used as easy gateways to success,there should be precautions to make it much more difficult.
We can't give a strict formula saying that the restrictions and planning should be this much and free element is
that much because it depends on the condition to achieve balance for solving these problems we face but we
should always include the item of planning to solve the mentioned problems.
This time injecting money worked to temporarily settle down the coming wave of crisis but if the situation continues to be
the same then it is inevitable that it will happen again and that time there won't be enough fuel to inject to the
engine as many parts of this engine need to be urgently reexamined-designed and changed. This engine won't work
much longer in this condition.
judgements to solve the same problem and they are both extremes and eventually it comes to a stage that these
approaches wont work any longer.
It seems that the invisible hand of the free market does not exist but it will continue to be used in schools to
educate children.It shouldn't be the survival of the fittest as in this brutal capitalism but to make everyone
fitter justly to keep the engine running.
Unemployment is on the rise and capitalism lacks the elements to effectively utilize the idle potential in society.
Clearly the invisible hand does not balance supply and demand to reduce unemployment, there are less and less fits who survive.
State planning is needed to regulate competition and make the demand for workers stable so that the idle potential is reduced to minimum
aiming to make it zero.There should be state spending to educate the unemployed and planning to find and put them
in jobs.A strong state sector might be required as well for this purpose.
Income difference is a related issue which is continiusly increasing day by day with the free hand of the market.
We see homeless collecting from garbage on one hand and on the other hand we see individuals spending millions for
several days of vacation. This can't be explained with the motto that they deserve to live better since they worked
harder as this much of difference in society's income distribution is clearly injustice and it blocks the poor from
achieving the results of their work seeing labor as only a factor of cost. Efficient taxation directed to education
opportunities to the poor is a must and planning is required to send them to jobs.Also interest rates of banks
should be checked strictly. The teachings that we freely,without pressure choose to do like Zakat(charity) and our
banking system are also positive factors to enhance economy.
Difficult part about capitalism is that it has no restrictions to form secret societies that would eventually take
over control unjustly. it is another opening in capitalism that every interest group can exploit
with ease and invade key positions in vital industries. one can approve the work of an individual saying that
he,she is from my jamaat and our group needs more power even if the work of that individual is not as
worthy as another person's work who honestly worked harder and better which results in injustice. It also leads to
exploitation of people outside these interest groups and even wars to protect the power groups ideological and/or
financial interests .It generally exploits the faiths of people as well.For example the current condition of Israel(mainly
the borders after 1967) cannot be simply explained by they needed a country after ww2 because with its military
might and post 1967 borders by forcefully owning areas including Jerusalem it can easily(it very possibly does in
these power groups) portray itself as the Israel in the Bible who returned to the holy land as claimed in the Bible
and many people even well educated people take this country as the real deal in Bible with enough image management in media etc.
outlets.A similar example is the dictatorial caliphate fantasies of talibans-hiztahrir granting power to these power
groups and aiming at muslims and shamefully many educated people easily eat it.
You can't leave this opening to be adjusted by the invisible hand of the free market. Even if economy collapses the
power groups escape with resources and they would have much more than enough money to survive and
the outside people would suffer.
Solutions can be different but we can share ideas to solve these problems.
I think state ownership and free price determination as in the case of China, or state ownership to some sufficient
degree or cooperate ownership,profit sharing as in the concept of labor managed market economy would give more
power to the workers and getting at the top or other vital positions won't mean that a few people in same interest
groups would have almost total control over the future of instututions.Also people are free to join social groups
to share experience,sense of belonging etc. but these groups should be totally transparent(rituals etc. everything)
and carefully audited so that they won't be used as easy gateways to success,there should be precautions to make it much more difficult.
We can't give a strict formula saying that the restrictions and planning should be this much and free element is
that much because it depends on the condition to achieve balance for solving these problems we face but we
should always include the item of planning to solve the mentioned problems.
This time injecting money worked to temporarily settle down the coming wave of crisis but if the situation continues to be
the same then it is inevitable that it will happen again and that time there won't be enough fuel to inject to the
engine as many parts of this engine need to be urgently reexamined-designed and changed. This engine won't work
much longer in this condition.
- Everything is from Allah. There is no other source of power and all causes are from Allah. This way you don't fall into theist fatalism waiting for things to happen themselves without pushing yourself harder to get better and without taking any risk and effort leading to inaction. On the other side pantheist views also lead to fatalism and inaction since it leads to easy passive conclusions like everything is perfect as it is and there is no meaning to excersize your will to make these as well as yourself better and denying your existance and will immobilizes you under difficulties.
- Submission, acceptance, let go of the roadblocks that we are sticking to the ego,fears,doubts etc.
We are in a constant war with our nefsh and eventualy we will experience death, the ego what we attach to will inevitably be gone whether we want it or not so do not stick to any result within this process.
- In this process desire everything but dependent on nothing without attaching to any cause but Allah. Everything becomes a tool a window for you.
You can then think and understand more and more forever without sticking to some cause. Giving up desire even at the mental level is harmful
Even if you physically don't escape away from life into a desert leaving injustice behind you will mentally be in the desert without seeing any direction for growth and sharing. Less will,less action,less sharing, more poverty. Blame game or running away from life as if it is some separate force does not answer the age old question of why many believers suffer while egoist pharaohs appear wealthy in their well decorated prisons. Giving up will results in giving up action then poverty. One who loves Allah loves everything from Allah. One who desires Allah desires everything from Allah.
- Take action, resist and be a wider channel for the 99 Forces of Allah. Ibadah is all your life process not snapshots of when you do Salat or dzikhr.
Gradually the false consciousness,the lies will melt away and Truth remains. You will experience what you do is from Allah. Then InshAllah you won't feel alone and disconnected.
If you can be selfless there can be wholeness in your conscioussness. If you can handle the internal battle which is the most important then you remove the blocks within the mind and your mind becomes like a channel. You can crush egos, smash idols, reveal the Truth, always transform and improve. Everything becomes possible. Most importantly it is the ego and lies that we are up against and at the essence the aim is to understand and live fully with the conscioussness of there are no many powers, sources of power like ego or images, only Allah. This fact in turn leads us to the point that it is those lies that makes us and the opponent seperate and prior aim should be on changing the opponent without using violence unless it is inevitable.
SubhanAllahi vel Hamdullillahi ve la ilahe illallahu vAllahu Ekber; vela havle vela kuvvete illa Billahil Aliyyil Azıym
- Submission, acceptance, let go of the roadblocks that we are sticking to the ego,fears,doubts etc.
We are in a constant war with our nefsh and eventualy we will experience death, the ego what we attach to will inevitably be gone whether we want it or not so do not stick to any result within this process.
- In this process desire everything but dependent on nothing without attaching to any cause but Allah. Everything becomes a tool a window for you.
You can then think and understand more and more forever without sticking to some cause. Giving up desire even at the mental level is harmful
Even if you physically don't escape away from life into a desert leaving injustice behind you will mentally be in the desert without seeing any direction for growth and sharing. Less will,less action,less sharing, more poverty. Blame game or running away from life as if it is some separate force does not answer the age old question of why many believers suffer while egoist pharaohs appear wealthy in their well decorated prisons. Giving up will results in giving up action then poverty. One who loves Allah loves everything from Allah. One who desires Allah desires everything from Allah.
- Take action, resist and be a wider channel for the 99 Forces of Allah. Ibadah is all your life process not snapshots of when you do Salat or dzikhr.
Gradually the false consciousness,the lies will melt away and Truth remains. You will experience what you do is from Allah. Then InshAllah you won't feel alone and disconnected.
If you can be selfless there can be wholeness in your conscioussness. If you can handle the internal battle which is the most important then you remove the blocks within the mind and your mind becomes like a channel. You can crush egos, smash idols, reveal the Truth, always transform and improve. Everything becomes possible. Most importantly it is the ego and lies that we are up against and at the essence the aim is to understand and live fully with the conscioussness of there are no many powers, sources of power like ego or images, only Allah. This fact in turn leads us to the point that it is those lies that makes us and the opponent seperate and prior aim should be on changing the opponent without using violence unless it is inevitable.
SubhanAllahi vel Hamdullillahi ve la ilahe illallahu vAllahu Ekber; vela havle vela kuvvete illa Billahil Aliyyil Azıym
#57
Tarbela
-
- Senior Members
-
- 2,362 posts
BRIGADIER
- Gender:Male
- Location:USA
Posted 16 October 2008 - 11:11 AM
IMF failed to show leadership in financial crisis: Shaukat Aziz
Thursday, October 16, 2008 ( MANILA ):
Former prime minister Shaukat Aziz accused the International Monetary Fund Thursday of failing to show leadership during what he described as a "historic" global financial crisis.
Speaking at an international business conference in Manila, Aziz charged, "this global institution which is supposed to look at everything going on was not even in the room where meetings are going on."
http://thenews.jang....es.asp?id=57892
Thursday, October 16, 2008 ( MANILA ):
Former prime minister Shaukat Aziz accused the International Monetary Fund Thursday of failing to show leadership during what he described as a "historic" global financial crisis.
Speaking at an international business conference in Manila, Aziz charged, "this global institution which is supposed to look at everything going on was not even in the room where meetings are going on."
http://thenews.jang....es.asp?id=57892
" In million of books, there is only word...
If your vision is clear, just Bismillah is enough for you"
#58
Caesar
-
- Senior Members
-
- 7,155 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
- Location:Australia
- Interests:Current Affairs, politics, Universe, technology, tennis, rugby, beach, and Girls.
- Location:Sydney
Posted 16 October 2008 - 05:55 PM
Looks like this bunch of criminal thugs are now trying to device new methods to ensure that humanity remains slave to this hideous, barbaric system!!!!!
QUOTE
'A new capitalism' on international Agenda
http://www.cbc.ca/wo...it.html?ref=rss
Two leading international organizations have backed the idea of reforming the world's financial system to prevent another credit crisis.
The Group of Eight major industrial countries — the U.S., Britain, Japan, Russia, Germany, France, Italy and Canada — said Wednesday that it will hold a global summit "in the near future" to discuss ways to "remedy deficiencies exposed by the current crisis."
A G8 statement provided no details, but French President Nicolas Sarkozy said all 27 European Union (EU) countries supported the idea, and backed restructuring institutions like the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.
Speaking in Brussels, where the EU met to endorse the $2.7-trillion bank support plan some of its leaders agreed to over the weekend, Sarkozy said the G8 meeting should produce "a new capitalism."
The EU leaders "all agreed that we don't want the same causes to produce the same effects in future," he said.
The G8 said the meeting should include developed and developing countries, which would include large, strong and growing economies like China, India and Brazil.
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said the meeting could produce "very large and very radical changes."
Brown and Sarkozy both suggested the meeting might resemble the 1944 Bretton Woods conference, which established the post-Second World War international financial and monetary system.
Call to change EU global-warming plan
The deal will enable all 27 EU members to support their financial systems by rescuing weak banks and encouraging lending among financial institutions.
But eight central and eastern European countries called on the EU to pull back from a plan to cut greenhouse-gas emissions by 20 per cent below 1990 levels by 2020 because Europe faces "serious economic and financial uncertainties."
The countries — Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia — made the plea at the opening of the meeting of the European Council, the top EU decision-making body.
A top EU official had earlier said that the credit crisis did not justify abandoning the climate-change plan.
"This is not a luxury we now have to forgo," Jose Manuel Barroso, president of the European Commission, said Tuesday. "Saving the planet is not an after-dinner drink, a digestif that you take or leave. Climate change does not disappear because of the financial crisis."
Barroso and British PM Brown told reporters after they met Wednesday morning that the financial crisis should not overshadow climate-change concerns.
The summit continues Thursday.
http://www.cbc.ca/wo...it.html?ref=rss
Two leading international organizations have backed the idea of reforming the world's financial system to prevent another credit crisis.
The Group of Eight major industrial countries — the U.S., Britain, Japan, Russia, Germany, France, Italy and Canada — said Wednesday that it will hold a global summit "in the near future" to discuss ways to "remedy deficiencies exposed by the current crisis."
A G8 statement provided no details, but French President Nicolas Sarkozy said all 27 European Union (EU) countries supported the idea, and backed restructuring institutions like the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.
Speaking in Brussels, where the EU met to endorse the $2.7-trillion bank support plan some of its leaders agreed to over the weekend, Sarkozy said the G8 meeting should produce "a new capitalism."
The EU leaders "all agreed that we don't want the same causes to produce the same effects in future," he said.
The G8 said the meeting should include developed and developing countries, which would include large, strong and growing economies like China, India and Brazil.
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said the meeting could produce "very large and very radical changes."
Brown and Sarkozy both suggested the meeting might resemble the 1944 Bretton Woods conference, which established the post-Second World War international financial and monetary system.
Call to change EU global-warming plan
The deal will enable all 27 EU members to support their financial systems by rescuing weak banks and encouraging lending among financial institutions.
But eight central and eastern European countries called on the EU to pull back from a plan to cut greenhouse-gas emissions by 20 per cent below 1990 levels by 2020 because Europe faces "serious economic and financial uncertainties."
The countries — Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia — made the plea at the opening of the meeting of the European Council, the top EU decision-making body.
A top EU official had earlier said that the credit crisis did not justify abandoning the climate-change plan.
"This is not a luxury we now have to forgo," Jose Manuel Barroso, president of the European Commission, said Tuesday. "Saving the planet is not an after-dinner drink, a digestif that you take or leave. Climate change does not disappear because of the financial crisis."
Barroso and British PM Brown told reporters after they met Wednesday morning that the financial crisis should not overshadow climate-change concerns.
The summit continues Thursday.
Humanity's past on this planet is based on the biggest Lie in History--and the same Lie will destroy humans in future! The Truth is infront of us and yet we refuse to accept it, we refuse to see it, we refuse to listen to it. Humans are intelligent and yet the dumbest beings ever!
#59
Caesar
-
- Senior Members
-
- 7,155 posts
GENERAL
- Gender:Male
- Location:Australia
- Interests:Current Affairs, politics, Universe, technology, tennis, rugby, beach, and Girls.
- Location:Sydney
Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:26 AM
Well this topic was discussed in 2008 ...... I can't believe I was the topic starter and was so passionate about it ! 
I haven't changed my opinion on this system though and I still believe it is the the base of all evils !
I haven't changed my opinion on this system though and I still believe it is the the base of all evils !
Humanity's past on this planet is based on the biggest Lie in History--and the same Lie will destroy humans in future! The Truth is infront of us and yet we refuse to accept it, we refuse to see it, we refuse to listen to it. Humans are intelligent and yet the dumbest beings ever!
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
Community Forum Software by IP.Board
Licensed to: PakistaniDefence.Com