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[Dizasta]

Pakistan’s strategic interests and its consequential alliances

“Oh you who believe (in the Qur’aan), do not take Jews and Christians as friends and allies who themselves are friends and allies of each other. And whoever of you (Muslims) turn to them (with friendship and alliance) becomes, verily, one of them; behold, Allah does not guide such evildoers.”

(Qur’aan, Al-Maidah, 5:51)

Know who your enemies are and their beliefs

The Hindus: Hinduism declares that the movement of history is cyclic, i.e., going around in circles and thus constantly repeating itself. When one cycle is completed, another one commences. In the view of many Hindu scholars today, as well as in the popular Hindu religious consciousness, the movement of history is now located at the in time when one cycle is coming to an end and another is about to begin. Thus for the Hindus this is, in a sense, a last age, i.e., the end of the present cycle of history.

While Hinduism is prepared to recognize truth manifesting itself in the form of many rivers flowing to the same sea, the fact is that Hinduism is also firmly insistent that when those rivers all reach that common sea it is the Hindu conception of truth that is certain to prevail. The logical implication is that cycle cannot end without the validation of the Hindu conception of truth. What is that implication of truth? And what are the implications for the rest of mankind if such a truth were to be validated?

Hinduism and the (so called) destiny of the Holy Land of Bharat: Hinduism is built on the concept of a Holy Land, i.e. Bharat, that includes not only present-day India, but also much of the surrounding regional territory. Hinduism clings with evergreen nostalgia to a golden age in the distant past in which the gods and goddesses of Hinduism lived on earth and the truth of Hinduism dominated the then known world from the holy land. Hindus believe that Hinduism has an exclusive religious right to dominance in that holy land of Bharat, and that Hindus therefore have a religious obligation to ensure that the Hindus conception of truth prevails in the Holy Land (Bharat).

Eight centuries of Muslim rule over that holy land, followed by the supposed partition (which in truth was the creation of Pakistan) of the Holy Land to accommodate the creation of Muslim Pakistan, Muslim Bangladesh, Muslim Maldives, Hindu Nepalese and Buddhist Sri Lanka, inflicted a wound on this so called holy land and, by implication, on the Hindu religious consciousness. It also set the stage for a struggle for restoring the integrity of the so called holy ‘Bharat’ would end, in the Hindu religious view, with such a validation of the Hindu conception of truth that would require Muslim Pakistan and Muslim Bangladesh and other surrounding  territories that were once (apparently)  ‘Bharat’ to be reabsorbed within this fictitious holy land, and that a undivided holy land of ‘Bharat’ under Brahmin Hindu political, economic and religious dominance be restored.

The Brahmin Hindu conception of the truth is firmly based on the belief that mankind was created unequally. The Brahmin Hindu is born into the highest caste and is thus the elite of mankind. The rest of the non-Brahmin mankind are inferior to him and are known as Dalits (untouchables). Notice the similarity between the Jewish and Hindu concepts, where Jews segregate on the basis of Jews and Gentiles (not the chosen people of God). That belief in inherent superiority and inferiority of human beings naturally lends itself to the establishment of a system of dominance. The implication, in so far as the historical process is concerned, is that history cannot end without the political dominance of a Brahmin-rules ‘Bharat’ over all others within the sphere of influence. The political and economic life of South Asia is moving precisely in that direction.

There are political implications that emerge from this Hindu conception of the end of history. The first is that the approach of an end of the present cycle would necessarily give rise to the emergence of a Hindu religious nationalism that would impact ominously on the political and economic relations with non-Hindu (particularly). That is already occurring.

Secondly it makes it inevitable that those Hindus with faith in the Hindu conception of the end of history would make common cause with those who (Zionists and their Serb-o-Russian, British, European and American dogs) are waging war on Islam around the world (Chechnya, Bosnia, Sudan, Afghanistan and Iraq). They (the Hindus) would also do so because of the perception of Islam as the major obstacle that stands in the way of Hinduism realizing its so-called historic destiny. They would do so in order to realize the end of history that would apparently validate Hinduism by way of restoring the integrity and undivided unity of the holy Hindu motherland of ‘Maha-Bharat’ (mother India). It is precisely for this reason that India is now becoming, after America, Israel’s most strategic ally in the world. Someone should tell those illiterate fools like Nawaz Shareef, Zardari and others who’re promoting visa free policy b/w Pakistan and India, how perilous their idea is and how these self-centered, egoistic p|g$ are going to destroy Pakistan in for their personal and ignorant gains.

Let all those fools who’re like Nawaz Shareef and Asif Zardari note that there are Hindus who would reject this conception of the end of history with the Brahmin dominance over the rest of mankind, and would insist justice, and that fraternity with all of mankind who reciprocate such values, must be the goal of Hinduism in the end of history. Such is the divide which would take place within the Hindu society and for such reasons, one should realize that it is the Brahmin conceptual idealists, just like the zealot Zionists, are the ones who would effectively be in control of India and its strategic interests.

The Jews: Judaism proclaims that they are the chosen people of Allah and that the Holy Land was given to them in a covenant with God. For this reason, only Jews can lay claim to the Holy Land, known to the Arabs as Ardh-ul-Muqaddasah, the west as Israel and Palestine and known in the ancient times as Canaan (in English) or Qan’aan (Arabic). They believe that the Jews would be freed from captivity (from Hitler), return to the Holy Land (Palestine), create their state in the Holy Land (Israel) and await the arrival of their Messiah, known to them as ‘Shiloh’. They expect this Messiah to return once the Jews have recaptured the original territories which were a part of the Kingdom of Solomon (Hazrat Suleimaan Alaihi Salam). This territory ranges from the River Nile (in Egypt) to the River Euphrates (in Iraq). Last but most importantly, to rebuild the Temple of Mount, where Masjid Al-Aqsa stands today.

Judaism, their return to the Holy Land and its destiny: The Hindu, the Jew and their views of the movement of history and the end of history are remarkably similar. Both the Jew and the Hindu conceive themselves as the elite of mankind and conceive of all non-Hindus or non-Jews to have been originally created with an inferior status. And hence both seem to establish systems of political, economic, social and religious dominance which would ensure that the elite of mankind themselves would dominate over the rest.

Both cherish the memory of a golden age when their political, economic religious dominance over all others within their sphere of influence was realized in history. Both believe in a holy land in which their respective golden ages were realized, and both believe that history cannot end without a re-realization of their respective golden ages in which they would again dominate the world around them from their respective holy lands.

Israel, with whom discussions on this very forum have been held, as to whether Pakistan should recognize this fake country. It should be known to every Pakistani, that they were expelled from their Holy Land more than 2000 years ago, and they lived for that long period in sorrowful exile. But it is of momentous and historic importance that they have now returned to the very heart of that Holy Land to reclaim it as their own. It is significant that they accomplished that return while riding on the backs of European Jews who pursued their goal with no concern for either truth or justice.

History reached its zenith in the golden age of Judaism when David (Da’ood Alaihi Salam) and Solomon (Suleimaan Alaihi Salam) ruled the world from Jerusalem. History after the golden age witnessed two periods of Jewish betrayal of the covenant with Allah Subhanaho Wata’aalah and hence, two periods of historical collapse and consequent Jewish exile from the Holy Land. The first was the Babylonian exile. The second, which commenced shortly after the Jews rejected the claim of Jesus (Isa Aliahi Salam) to be the Messiah and subsequently boasted that they had killed him (Qur’aan, Al-Nisa, 4:159), resulted in a two thousand-year exile, the likes of which mankind has never witnessed. They, the Jews called it their dark age. The historical process is thus linear and regressive. But regression was punctuated by the divine interventions which once brought Jews back from Babylon to reclaim the Holy Land, and which once again would fulfill a Divine promise concerning the advent of a Messiah (Dajjal) through whom Jews would re-realize the golden age when Holy Israel ruled the world.

So the Hindu view, like the Jewish view, is that we are now in the last stage of history. This belief that the historical process is drawing to an end has impacted on Judaism in the same way as it has impacted on Hinduism, and so we see secular nationalism being replaced in Israel by the Jewish religious nationalism with all the attendant repercussions on the politics of the State.

Pakistanis should know that the only significant force in the world perceived to be obstructing Jews and the Hindus from realizing Judaism’s and Hinduism’s historic destiny is Islam. They should also know, that it would be their (the people Pakistan) destiny to be the in the spearhead of the Army of Muhammad Sallallaho Aliahi Wassallam, also known as the Black Flag Army. It would not be in the interest of the Jews to see the Black Flag Army emerge and hence, in order to thwart this, they would create an alliance between themselves and the Hindus. Also, they would ensure that nothing of this sort ever happens, by using its Christian Neo-Con allies to wreak havoc in this region. This explains the present war that is waged on Islam (in Iraq, Kashmir and Afghanistan to affect Pakistan and Iran) to remove the road-block.

The Christians: They believe that history prior to the advent of Jesus (Isa Alaihi Salam) was preparatory in nature, and that history reached its epoch when God incarnated in the person of Jesus, the ‘son of God’, the second person in the ‘trinity’. History would culminate when that ‘God’ returns to judge all of mankind on Judgment Day. The Christian view of the historical process is thus linear and regressive, but it conceives of history ending with another divine intervention that would validate the Christian claim to the truth.

The unholy alliance of Christians and Jews give birth to the Freemasons: It is the belief that the return of Jesus is near. What is really profoundly disturbing in how the Christians are conned into believing (by the freemasonry) that the birth of the State of Israel is a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy and that Christians  therefore have a religious duty to facilitate the return of Jesus by giving their support to Israel and by opposing those who oppose Israel. They remain conveniently blind to the injustice, lies and deception with which so-called Biblical prophesy is being realized.

Indeed the birth of Israel is itself the result of a strange Jewish-Christian marriage that gave birth to the Templar Knights, Freemasons and present day Neo-conservatives, who drive the new world order. As the return of Jesus draws nigh the world is already witnessing a resurgence of Christian religious nationalism impacting on the Christian political thought with momentous implications. Nowhere in the world has the impact of end-time resurgent Christian nationalism made a more ominous impact on the world than in the establishment of the George H & W Bush administrations in USA.

While Europe draws away from Christianity and its religious beliefs, America, the sole super power of the world is being usurped by this Christian belief. And with it, is the consequential impact of the War on Terror in Afghanistan and its direct link with Pakistan and its destiny. One should not be fooled, as the same alliance that was formed between the Jews and the Hindus, has now become a trinity between Christians, Jews and Hindus.

[Jahan]

Notice the similarity between the Jewish and Hindu concepts, where Jews segregate on the basis of Jews and Gentiles (not the chosen people of God). That belief in inherent superiority and inferiority of human beings naturally lends itself to the establishment of a system of dominance.

Bro, I totally agree with this, but it would only be fair to aknowledge that Islam too differentiates between the believers and the non-believers: "Not equal are the blind and those who see: Nor are equal those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and those who do evil." --- Quran 40:58

Unfortunately, our leaders are totally blind to any of the reality that is occurring. An invasion is knocking on our doorsteps, as well as the doorsteps of any Muslim nation that has the potential to become a powerful force in the future. The question is, what can we do?

We have completely and utterly failed to secure any concept of Muslim Unity. I'm sure many people would immediately say: "We can't have unity until we eliminate the sects. We must wait for Madhi to arrive and do this for us." But what exactly does "unity" mean? What exactly is the "Mahdi?" The Khalifat? My question is: are these tangible, definitie people and things or are they concepts? Is the philosopy of personal responsibility and individual accounability in the Quran in lines with waiting for a messianic saviour to solve all our problems? I personally don't believe so.

Can we expect to be saved by just waiting around? Are we not expected to do anything by ourselves? Why is Pakistan issuing such rubbish statements that "We will remain netural in case of a US war with Iran?" Like hell we will remain netural! More than 33 million Pakistanis are Shia. Added to this, no Muslim - or very few Muslims - would see such an attack as an attack on Iran. It would be an attack on Islam - the same as the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was an attack on Islam (this is why so many foreign militants are in each in country fighting the US/NATO forces). Now just picture how ridiculous this sounds: an attack on Afghanistan on 2001 has dragged us into the fold, so that we are the heaviest contributors to this so-called WoT. How can an attack on Iran also not drag us into the fold when we are culturally and historically more close to them than Afghanistan?

Utter rubbish. Bringing me to my second point: is the Caliphate by Imam Mahdi that is predicted in Islamic eschatology the same as the Caliphate by the Four Rightly Guided Caliphs? I do not know. Is economic alliance along the lines of the EU not also a form of Caliphate? Similarly, is a military alliance along the lines of NATO not also a form of Caliphate? Then, to those Muslims suggesting: we must have a divine figure to forge a caliphate, I would suggest: if the non-Muslims can form partial caliphates, why can't the Ummah do too?

And moreoever, bro, couldn't the whole concept of a saviour like figure such as Mahdi actually be representative of the awareness and sense of personal responsibility that must be awakened in Muslims which is what would save them? Ultimately, it is the complete failures of our leaders to do anything worth a dime for the dominance of Islam - even in Muslim countries, where we see behaviours getting more and more un-Islamic.

What can be done (indeed, what must be done) is that alliances must be formed immediately with Iran and Turkey. The Persian, Ottomon and Mughal Empires were the greatest Islamic dynasties and its certainly poignant to have an alliance between the three. Additionally, these are the three most militarily and technologically capable Muslim countries at this moment, in terms of indigenous capability. We need to sign memorandums of understanding in several key areas - economy, military, trade, energy and educatioion.

[crazyinsane105]

Can we expect to be saved by just waiting around? Are we not expected to do anything by ourselves? Why is Pakistan issuing such rubbish statements that "We will remain netural in case of a US war with Iran?" Like hell we will remain netural! More than 33 million Pakistanis are Shia. Added to this, no Muslim - or very few Muslims - would see such an attack as an attack on Iran. It would be an attack on Islam - the same as the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was an attack on Islam (this is why so many foreign militants are in each in country fighting the US/NATO forces). Now just picture how ridiculous this sounds: an attack on Afghanistan on 2001 has dragged us into the fold, so that we are the heaviest contributors to this so-called WoT. How can an attack on Iran also not drag us into the fold when we are culturally and historically more close to them than Afghanistan?

Iran helped the US very much in the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. Furthermore, what do you expect Pakistan to do if the US simply attacks Iran (there is a huge difference between attacking and invading) when its the US that is our largest customer for our products? Iran can handle itself very much, they have a well equipped military that's been focusing on retaliating against a US or Israeli led assault since 2003. The most we as Pakistan can do is lend diplomatic support.

[Dizasta]

Bro, I totally agree with this, but it would only be fair to aknowledge that Islam too differentiates between the believers and the non-believers: "Not equal are the blind and those who see: Nor are equal those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and those who do evil." --- Quran 40:58

Indeed they are, the difference between Islam, as opposed to Judaism and Hinduism is that in Islam everyone is born a Muslim. He/she is who may have been born of other belief, if seeking Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah, would find Islam and would revert back to it. In Judaism, there is no conversion, you're born a Jew or not at all. And in Hinduism, try getting a Dalit to be converted to a Brahmin, it wouldn't ever happen. This is where these prejudice, biased, racists Jews and Hindus have in common and there ain't no lie about that.

We have completely and utterly failed to secure any concept of Muslim Unity. I'm sure many people would immediately say: "We can't have unity until we eliminate the sects. We must wait for Madhi to arrive and do this for us." But what exactly does "unity" mean? What exactly is the "Mahdi?" The Khalifat? My question is: are these tangible, definitie people and things or are they concepts? Is the philosopy of personal responsibility and individual accounability in the Quran in lines with waiting for a messianic saviour to solve all our problems? I personally don't believe so.

Imam-ul-Madhi isn't coming to save Muslims, nor is he coming to protect us from the attacks of the kuffar, nor is he coming to unite the Muslim Ummah. How can you expect that, when the first drop of a Munafiq's blood would fall on the floors of Kaa'bah? His arrival is not to unite the Muslims, its to cleanse the Muslims of all Munafiqeen who have betrayed their faith in Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah. Allah does not help those who don't help themselves and we the Ummah are consumed in 'Wahn'. No, Imam-ul-Mahdi is coming to usher the arrival of Hazrat Isa Alaihi Salaam.

The choice is yours, you have all been given 'free will', you have all been given a 'brain' to use that free will. If you choose to live your life according to the will of Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah, then you would choose to destroy the fitna that exploits you, then you choose to live life only pleasing to Allah and Allah alone. You will shut the mouth of every Wahabi, every Deobandi, every Ismaileeli, every Qadiani, every one who chooses to spread the 'Sharr' iblees. You will not tolerate the spread of fitna amongst your people. For if you don't, Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah will not help you and will not send anyone to save you.

Can we expect to be saved by just waiting around? Are we not expected to do anything by ourselves? Why is Pakistan issuing such rubbish statements that "We will remain netural in case of a US war with Iran?" Like hell we will remain netural! More than 33 million Pakistanis are Shia. Added to this, no Muslim - or very few Muslims - would see such an attack as an attack on Iran. It would be an attack on Islam - the same as the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was an attack on Islam (this is why so many foreign militants are in each in country fighting the US/NATO forces). Now just picture how ridiculous this sounds: an attack on Afghanistan on 2001 has dragged us into the fold, so that we are the heaviest contributors to this so-called WoT. How can an attack on Iran also not drag us into the fold when we are culturally and historically more close to them than Afghanistan?

Brother, I concur with you on this and to add that those Muslims who do not concern themselves with the oppression metted out to another Muslim, IS NOT A MUSLIM HIMSELF/HERSELF.

Utter rubbish. Bringing me to my second point: is the Caliphate by Imam Mahdi that is predicted in Islamic eschatology the same as the Caliphate by the Four Rightly Guided Caliphs? I do not know. Is economic alliance along the lines of the EU not also a form of Caliphate? Similarly, is a military alliance along the lines of NATO not also a form of Caliphate? Then, to those Muslims suggesting: we must have a divine figure to forge a caliphate, I would suggest: if the non-Muslims can form partial caliphates, why can't the Ummah do too?

The Khilafah would not be in anyway an alliance between different Muslim States, nor would it be an military alliance between these states. The entire concept of Khialafah is the elimination of all divisions within the Ummah of our beloved Prophet Muhammad Sallallaho Alaihi Wassallam. No borders, no nationalities, no visas, no different armies, no different flags, no ethnicities, for if you are a true Muslim, then you are a Mu'min and Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah resides in the hearts of Mu'mins. They are prince among men and they are always Allah's beloved.

And moreoever, bro, couldn't the whole concept of a saviour like figure such as Mahdi actually be representative of the awareness and sense of personal responsibility that must be awakened in Muslims which is what would save them? Ultimately, it is the complete failures of our leaders to do anything worth a dime for the dominance of Islam - even in Muslim countries, where we see behaviours getting more and more un-Islamic.

It is the ignorant mentality in which we are living in, that leads us to believe that this is our only savior. If that is the case, then why not say this, we will sin all we want till Imam-ul-Mahdi comes and saves us. No, we need to be fighting the Jihaad within us, to destroy all the Sharr of shaitaan and the Fitna of dajjal. But do not disregard of what is to come, for it is a testament of truth which would triumph over falsehood. Whether you as a Muslim, would be part of it? Well that remains to be seen.

What can be done (indeed, what must be done) is that alliances must be formed immediately with Iran and Turkey. The Persian, Ottomon and Mughal Empires were the greatest Islamic dynasties and its certainly poignant to have an alliance between the three. Additionally, these are the three most militarily and technologically capable Muslim countries at this moment, in terms of indigenous capability. We need to sign memorandums of understanding in several key areas - economy, military, trade, energy and educatioion.

Brother, if we can manage to start the work here in Pakistan and destroy all the divisions within us, of which the enemy takes full advantage of. Then we would be able to set an example for others. Remember, if we aren't united and strong in faith on the inside, then there is no way that we can fight the enemy outside. Strength within, faith within, unity within ..... without it and without the Sunnah of our beloved Prophet Muhammad Sallallaho Alaihi Wassallam, we will not achieve any success.

[AL-khalid]

Perfect. Very imformative clears your mind regarding many things. To defeat your enemy, you must understand your enemy. Thats a start what you have wrriten there bro, but how can we defend ourself aginst our enemies ? We are so divided within ourself that we are powerless ... It's not our nulcear bombs that the West is scared of it's our unity ! If we're united Allah by our side we can shake the foundations of the world !

[Caesar]

Humm Sorry to sound pessimistic but strategic interests and alliances are formed for the benefit of the people and the country--in Pakistan's case these interests and alliances are formed to protect the power grip of the ruling junta! This junta is a collection of military, politicians and bureaucrats! Welfare of ordinary people was never on the list anyways!!

A country whose policies are made in Washington and London cannot have independent strategies and goals!!

[AL-khalid]

Humm Sorry to sound pessimistic but strategic interests and alliances are formed for the benefit of the people and the country--in Pakistan's case these interests and alliances are formed to protect the power grip of the ruling junta! This junta is a collection of military, politicians and bureaucrats! Welfare of ordinary people was never on the list anyways!!

A country whose policies are made in Washington and London cannot have independent strategies and goals!!

n maybe thats why we need a revolution ? Reffer to my revolution thread :

http://pakistanidefenceforum.com//index.php?showtopic=76854

[Dizasta]

Humm Sorry to sound pessimistic but strategic interests and alliances are formed for the benefit of the people and the country--in Pakistan's case these interests and alliances are formed to protect the power grip of the ruling junta! This junta is a collection of military, politicians and bureaucrats! Welfare of ordinary people was never on the list anyways!!

A country whose policies are made in Washington and London cannot have independent strategies and goals!!

The day we stop whining about policies of this country being made in the house of dajjal (Washington and London) and turn to our leaders and drag them all out on the streets. That day our enemies would tremble in fear, but the frustrating part is that every other Pakistani is waiting for every other Pakistani to do something.

Iqbal told us what to do when he said "Khudee ko kar bulandh itna, kay har taqdeer sey pehlay, Khuda bunday sey yeh khudh poochey, bata teri raza kya hai". Is too hard to understand that our destiny awaits us for we are the ones among our other brothers (Iranians, Afghans, Central Asian states), who shall rise from the ashes of dajjal's fitna, to fight and defeat the forces of evil? It is as simple as surviving to live, that in order to sustain life, one has to eat, sleep and find means to do both. Similarly, in order to fulfill our destiny, we need to absorb our faith within our soul and live a life which is in accordance with the laws of Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah and to please HIM with the way we live our lives.

Jinnah told us what to do, when he said those three words which sums up everything that we require to become a powerful and strong nation. Unity, Faith and Discipline. Look around you, do you see unity within us Pakistanis, when we backstab each other on the basis of ethnicity and critisize our own when we should be helping them. Faith, well one can only look at the state of our country and understand that we do not even have an ounce worth of faith as a nation, where Shiahs and Sunnis are at each other's throat and the whole childish arguments between the Wahabis and the Ahl-e-Sunnah Wal-Jam'aa. And don't even have to mention anything about discipline.

Our ancestors left legacies which the world took lessons from, except us. Through preservation of faith comes the wisdom to recognize the design of your enemy, which was showed by our great Awlyas like Hazrat Daata Ganjh Baksh (Radi'Allah Ta'aalah Anho), Hazrat Ghazi Baba (Radi'Allah Ta'aalah Anho) who incedentally had arrived in Pakistan in 40 Hijri and Hazrat Khawajah Moeen-uddin Chisti (Radi'Allah Ta'aalah Anho). All of these stalwarts were the pinnacle of what a faithful servant of Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah is like. They had set examples of what Muslims of Pakistan should follow. For not only would the Black Flag Army be indestructable and unstoppable in power, but also would glow in wisdom which is the 'Firaasah' (the intuitive knowledge) of a 'Mu'min'.  

So my brother, instead of lamenting on who controls our policies, we look at the reality that we alone can help ourselves by uniting, disciplining and establishing faith within us. That the world would witness a revolution in Pakistan that would make the enemy tremble in fear. Its in our hands, our destiny awaits us ..... question is, do you have the courage and faith of a Mu'min in you, to take what is rightfully yours?

[Jahan]

Iran helped the US very much in the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. Furthermore, what do you expect Pakistan to do if the US simply attacks Iran (there is a huge difference between attacking and invading) when its the US that is our largest customer for our products? Iran can handle itself very much, they have a well equipped military that's been focusing on retaliating against a US or Israeli led assault since 2003. The most we as Pakistan can do is lend diplomatic support.

Did Iran? Now can you blame Iran for over-throwing an extremely anti-Shia, anti-Iran Taliban government? The same munafiqs who now behead innocent Pakistani Shias in our northern areas. Khair, if there was initial assistance it went away very quickly. This article, Events in Mideast, Afghanistan strain U.S.-Iran ties, is from late 2002, about one year after the incursions into Afghanistan by NATO. That aside, Iran helped in the US invasion of Iraq? Did Iran? Very much news to me. Links please?

What do I expect Pakistan to do? Absolutely nothing. What do I want Pakistan to do? Fully declare support for Iran. As they would do for us. I am very much pro-Iran. I think you can figure this out. Can we allow our economic dependence on the US blackmail us into actions which are against our national interests and the interests of Islam?

Yaar diplomatic support hi sahi. Lekin, do you think this bunch of cowardly politicians, or the last bunch will ever do this? We both know without the threat of nukes (remember Iran is next-door to Israel) Irani military capability will never be taken seriously. Imagine this, "you touch a single inch of our territory and we bomb Israel."

Perfect. Very imformative clears your mind regarding many things. To defeat your enemy, you must understand your enemy. Thats a start what you have wrriten there bro, but how can we defend ourself aginst our enemies ? We are so divided within ourself that we are powerless ... It's not our nulcear bombs that the West is scared of it's our unity ! If we're united Allah by our side we can shake the foundations of the world !

n maybe thats why we need a revolution ?

That's a fantastic realisation Indeed, I am now of the mind that inquilaab remains the only way to purge this dirty pool of Pakistani politics of insincere individuals. We need a revolution where the common man comes into street, where a government is formed which works for the agenda of the Pakistani nation - not an extremist Taliban government (the Pakistani mindset is not one that could ever be sustained under an extremist ruling junta).

InshAllah, it seems that stage is very near. From Zardari to Rehman Malik to the AG Qayyum to Musharraf, sab ki sab gardanain kaat dein in ki. They have betrayed our nation too many times.

Imam-ul-Madhi isn't coming to save Muslims, nor is he coming to protect us from the attacks of the kuffar, nor is he coming to unite the Muslim Ummah. How can you expect that, when the first drop of a Munafiq's blood would fall on the floors of Kaa'bah? His arrival is not to unite the Muslims, its to cleanse the Muslims of all Munafiqeen who have betrayed their faith in Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah. Allah does not help those who don't help themselves and we the Ummah are consumed in 'Wahn'. No, Imam-ul-Mahdi is coming to usher the arrival of Hazrat Isa Alaihi Salaam.

The choice is yours, you have all been given 'free will', you have all been given a 'brain' to use that free will. If you choose to live your life according to the will of Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah, then you would choose to destroy the fitna that exploits you, then you choose to live life only pleasing to Allah and Allah alone. You will shut the mouth of every Wahabi, every Deobandi, every Ismaileeli, every Qadiani, every one who chooses to spread the 'Sharr' iblees. You will not tolerate the spread of fitna amongst your people. For if you don't, Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah will not help you and will not send anyone to save you.

Very well Dizasta bro.

It is also said that when the sun will rise from the west the dar-e-rehmat of the Almighty will be closed - this from the God who said "My mercy overcometh my wrath." I hope that before that time, we as an Ummah can realise what you have said before. That the free will we have been given is to be used. I concur with you fully - there is no doubt that to achieve ever-lasting rewards in Paradise we have to struggle now. Now I ask you one question: should we support politicians - I think you will know who I mean - who make our country richer at the cost of our national sovereignty, dignity and against our Islamic sensitivities? Or should we choose to remain in poverty but retain our dignity and our conscience. A further question: does Allah also not say that whoever He protects, none can harm him? Should and could we allow our economic dependence on the US blackmail us into actions which are against our national interests and the interests of Islam?

The Khilafah would not be in anyway an alliance between different Muslim States, nor would it be an military alliance between these states. The entire concept of Khialafah is the elimination of all divisions within the Ummah of our beloved Prophet Muhammad Sallallaho Alaihi Wassallam. No borders, no nationalities, no visas, no different armies, no different flags, no ethnicities, for if you are a true Muslim, then you are a Mu'min and Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah resides in the hearts of Mu'mins. They are prince among men and they are always Allah's beloved.

Koi andaazah kar saktaa hai usske zor-e-baazu ka?
Nigah-e-mard-e-momin say badal jaati hain taqdeerain!

How do you suggest we do this bro?

It is a beautiful suggestion, but how to eliminate the differences? We cannot eliminate the differences in our own country. We have totally ignored our beloved Nabi's (pbuh) order:

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood."

Shame on us.

[Saqr]

IMO...

The returning Caliphate will start as a limited country...a new entity born out of a dying one...and do not expect it to be the Morocco to Indonesia thing right away!  I think the Caliphate will start out as a country that would have come fresh from a revolution and push itself through very tough nation building...it's leadership will be as just and successful as the 4 Guided Caliphs.  However...the world will see this state as rogue and a threat...expect it to be booted off the WTO, U.N., etc, and ultimately attacked by military force when the enemies cannot crack the Nation within using media & money.  

The masses of the world will be oppressed and see the price of opposing rulers...hence the rulers will attack the Caliph(s)...

First phase...the economy and social structure will be attacked...the Caliphate will survive.
Second...strategic strikes and cowardly assaults...the Caliphate will endure.
Third...a direct military invasion...the Caliphate and its Black Flag Army will win....

The winning Caliphate will then begin a parallel world structure to mark its superiority...and the world - starting with Muslim states - will join it by recognizing the Caliphate as the Sovereign...and ultimately the non-Muslim world would join out of the by-products of the current world system.

[Caesar]

Ahh as I have also said that we are human beings first and we have so much in common. Instead of fighting against each other and killing each we should come together and look towards space for the benefit of all mankind!!

Sadly, I think my dream of a united humanity will remain just a dream, and humans will ultimately wipe out each other!! I cannot think of a more foolish race, a more barbaric race that is hell bent on destroying its own kind. A race which ignores voices of reasons, and a race which refuses to see outside the square!! The shadowy forces who have always controlled us from behind the scenes and have destroyed us countless times will destroy us again!! How sad--but perhaps we deserve it!!

[Dizasta]

Now I ask you one question: should we support politicians - I think you will know who I mean - who make our country richer at the cost of our national sovereignty, dignity and against our Islamic sensitivities? Or should we choose to remain in poverty but retain our dignity and our conscience.

There is no hesitation, no doubt or question, when it come to what we have to do in order to save our people and our country. We need a collective which would form the nucleus of bringing Pakistanis together and uniting under one soverign, Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah. It has to be done privately, it has to be done covertly, it has to be done discretely. The point is that we are not gonna wait for any saviour to come and save. Rather we would form small groups which would be do their bit in their cities, towns and villages. They would be however have a singular objective and would be a part of the nucleus which would start to eliminate illiteracy, ignorance and poverty from within our areas.

The only thing we need, is a conglomerate of people who have the knowledge and who have the ability to form guidelines that would be followed by everyone. Of course, there is no need to form guidelines when there are already set by Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah's mehboob, Muhammad Sallallaho Alaihi Wassallam. The nucleus would work together with the all the groups in an effort to destroy the 'Jihalah' and the 'Fitna' which divides us.

The founding principles of our effort, is not to bring our own version of things and our ego into this struggle. There would no Wahabism, Salafism, Qadianism and Ismailism. We need to educate our people in the realities of what the Freemasonry, Illuminati, Kabbalists and the Luciferians have done in order to achieve this dire state of the Ummah. And how these people have used and created such sects within to further divide us. It started with Shiahs and Sunnis and not it has spiralled out of control.

A further question: does Allah also not say that whoever He protects, none can harm him? Should and could we allow our economic dependence on the US blackmail us into actions which are against our national interests and the interests of Islam?

Koi andaazah kar saktaa hai usske zor-e-baazu ka?
Nigah-e-mard-e-momin say badal jaati hain taqdeerain!

How do you suggest we do this bro?

When we are consumed and usurped in 'Wahn' (the love for life and hatred for death), self-centered, egoistic, personal comfort. Then one cannot expect the protection of Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah on such a people. In order for us to defeat the enemy in his design to blackmail us, for its own interests. The need for these small groups to spawn the 'Kehfiyyat' within, of 'Zikr', of 'Salah', of 'Tazqiyah' and of 'Ehsaan', is pivotal to combating the Fitna of Dajjal. Without making the effort at the foundation of our society, we cannot hope to succeed in defeating the enemy.

Remember, the Hadith which is my signature. The Black Flags shall rise from Khurasaan. In this Army, there would be a weapon more powerful, more feared than any other weapon. This weapon is the 'Firaasah' of a Mu'min, who develops it by attaining the level of 'Tazqiyyah' and sifting through the ocean of information, both corrupt and truthful and is able to see where others are blind. This weapon is the direct answer to the tactics used by the Kabbalists, black magic. The combination of Zikr (heightened spirituality) and Ilm (knowledge of this world and the next), forms the 'Firaasah' (spiritual intuition) which would destroy the unseen forces that seek to decieve and destroy us from within.

[Dizasta]

Understand what is at work here, the origins of New-Conservatives, Freemasonry, Illuminati and the Luciferian bloodine

The Lost Tribes of Israel and the Luciferian bloodline:

The plot for a series of World Wars in the twentieth century, culminating in a third against the Muslim world, was devised in the eighteenth century, by American Civil War general, Albert Pike, then Grand Master of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, a primary adjunct of the Illuminati.

But the question arises, why ... why this plan, for what purpose and what is the ultimate goal? The answer lay in what started in the late 18th century, with the creation of the Zionists movement and to re-create the state of Israel that had been destroyed by Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah when they (the Jews) committed the most henious crime in the history of mankind with murders of the Prophets of Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah. So essentially the creation of Israel is in direct violation of Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah's command and the punishment that awaits them is horrifying.

Coming back to the World War designs and preperations, though the final stages of this plot have been largely reserved for our time, the conspiracy is affiliated with a lore of occult knowledge that dates back to at least the sixth century BC. This lore begins with a heresy, known as Kabbalah, which disguises itself as Jewish, but is a pact to seek world domination, and the eradication of religion in favour of the worship of Lucifer.

The goal devised by these Kabbalists has since been the installation of their “messiah” as world leader, who, according to their interpretation of the Bible, is to be of line of King David. Since that time, to preserve this purported lineage, until the advent of their expected leader, these Luciferians have been carefully intermarrying amongst each other, and have included among them many of the leading figures of history. They begin with a Persian Royal family, who intermarried with that of Alexander the Great. By combining with that of Herod the Great, these families were responsible for the creation and dissemination of the leading mystery school of the Roman Empire, the Mysteries of Mithras, which eventually succeeded in co-opting the emerging Christian movement, by producing Catholic Christianity.

Nevertheless, a secret, or Gnostic, version of Christianity, also derived from Mithraism, survived to compete with Catholicism, in the form of several secret societies, like the Templars, Rosicrucians and Freemasons, practicing occult arts, or what is known as “witchcraft”. This tradition, was perpetuated by the most popularized branch of the Luciferian bloodline, the Merovingians. Symbolized by the Holy Grail, the Merovingians, after intermarrying into the family of a Jewish Exilarch, or claimant to the Jewish throne, culminated in all the leading families of the Crusades.

It was at this time that this European branch of the family recombined with others from Eastern Europe and Armenia. These Eastern aristocracies derived from the enigmatic Khazars, who had populated southern Russia and the Basin of the Don River, and who, in the eighth century AD, had converted to Judaism. Legend has it, however, that the Khazars were remnants of the Lost Tribes. Armenia, just across the Caucasus, was another locale of these supposed Lost Tribes. It was the intermarriage and perpetuation of these aristocratic bloodlines that were being referred to in the heraldic symbols of the lily, the rose, the double-headed eagle, and the skull and crossbones.

Also during the Crusades, this network connected with an important occult center hiding within the Islamic world, in Cairo Egypt, who followed the heretical version of Islam known as Ismailism. According to Masonic legend, a number of these “Eastern Brethren” were rescued and brought to Scotland, where they provided the basis of Sottish Rite Freemasonry, which only emerged in the eighteenth century. However, at the same time, this legend also provided the basis for the establishment of Freemasonry in Egypt, which then became the second center of Illuminati activism. It was from these secret networks of impostors by which the Western powers created Islamic terrorism, used to foment of a Clash of Civilizations, through the fabrication of the terrorist threat.

In order to understand these groups and the singular agenda, both willingly and unwillingly, one has to take deeper look in the origins of Luciferianism.

The Fallen Angels:

The Illuminati claim to be descended of Fallen Angels, who taught them the “Ancient Wisdom”, also known as the Kabbalah, which they have been preserving throughout the centuries. These Fallen Angels are referred to in the Bible, Book of Genesis, as the Nephilim, or “Sons of God”, and were said to have descended to earth and intermarried with human beings. Christian interpretations struggle with the passage, choosing to translate the term into “mighty men”. However, apocryphal Jewish texts explain that they were the devil and his legions, who were cast out of Heaven, and took wives from the female descendants of Cain. They produced a race known as the Anakim.

According to the Illuminati, it is they who first introduced humanity to the occult arts, including astrology, magic and alchemy. This period in history is believed by occultists to accord with the lost continent of Atlantis. The race produced by the intermixing of the Fallen Angels and humans is thought to be the Aryans. Supposedly, their corruption caused great corruption in the earth, to such an extent that, according to these same Apocryphal works, God decided to destroy them through the Flood. Here it is important to understand the Bible account, from which their legends are interpreted. According to the Bible, wickedness soon returned to the earth, however, when Noah’s son Ham committed a sin. Ham moved southwest into Africa and parts of the near Middle East, and was the forefather of the nations there. From Ham’s son, Mizraim, came the Egyptians, from Phut, the Lybians, and from Kush, came the Kushites, who established Ethiopia. Cush was also the father of Nimrod, the legendary founder of the ancient city of Babylon, who was responsible for instigating the building of the Tower of Babel.

Supposedly, Shem, Ham’s brother, and Cush's great uncle, became appalled by his nephew's evil deeds, and killed Nimrod. Before his death, however, Nimrod had married and impregnated his own mother, named Semiramis. After Nimrod was slain, Semiramis instituted the worship of herself and her son among the people of Babylon, who came to regard Nimrod was a sun-god, and she was a goddess, or Queen of Heaven.

Nimrod, or Bel, as he was later worshipped by the Babylonians, was also identified with the constellation of Orion, the shepherd of the stars, and therefore referred to mystically in the Bible as “a mighty hunter before the Lord”. Semiramis, later revered as Ishtar, was identified with the planet Venus, as were all the goddesses modeled after her.

Nimrod was confronted in his blasphemy by Abraham, the founder of the Jewish nation, who left his own nation of star-worshippers, in Harran, to found a new religion. Abraham’s grandson Jacob, later Israel, had twelve sons, from whom were descended the Twelve Tribes of Israel. And, through the influence of the Kabbalah, these tribes acquired mystical symbolism, which would later become prominent features of European heraldry.

Like the astrological zodiac, these twelve tribes were divided into four camps of three, in accordance with the four seasons of the Zodiac, divided according to the Four Elements. Thus, Reuben, who is compared to running water, with Simeon and Gad, are Aquarius. Judah, the lion, with Issachar and Zebulon, are Leo. Benjamin, Manasseh and Ephraim, whom Jacob compares to the ox, are Taurus. Naphtali, Asher and Dan, whose device is the scorpion, synonymous astrologically with the eagle, are Scorpio.

The brothers tried to kill their sibling Joseph, by dropping him into a well, but he was later rescued, and eventually became a governor in Egypt. And, when the Israelites were stricken with famine, they were forced to seek the assistance of Joseph in Egypt, who finally revealed himself to his treacherous brothers.

After four hundred years in Egypt, the increasing number of Israelites in the country began to concern Pharaoh, who oppressed them. Moses was sent by God to revive the monotheistic religion of Abraham among the Israelites, and lead them to the land promised to their forefather, in what is known as the Covenant. For according to the Bible, God had chosen the Jewish people above other nations, to follow His commandments, especially to do unto others, as they would others do unto them, and to stand out as examples of righteousness for mankind.

After confronting Pharaoh, Moses successfully acquired permission to lead his people out of the land. However, a short time after the Israelites had cross the Red Sea, and while Moses was away on Mount Sinai receiving the tablets of the Ten Commandments, they blasphemed by constructing a statue of a Golden Calf from their melted Jewelry. Scholars acknowledge that this cow-god was borrowed from the Apis Bull of the Egyptians, who was equated with Osiris. More accurately, Osiris and Isis were merely the Egyptian versions of the same couple worshipped in Babylon originally as Nimrod and Semiramis.

Moses ordered the Seventy Elders to slay the idolaters, and the tribe continued its journey to the Promised Land, where they were ordered to conquer the inhabitants. Palestine was then inhabited by the descendants of Ham’s fourth son, Canaan. According to the Bible, although it was Ham who had sinned, it was upon Canaan that the curse would fall upon. According to occult interpretation, however, the Canaanites represented survivors of the Anakim. In Deuteronomy 9:1-2, we read: “Hear, O Israel! You are crossing over the Jordan today to go in to dispossess nations greater and mightier than you, great cities fortified to heaven, a people great and tall, the sons of the Anakim whom you know and of whom you have heard it said, “Who can stand before the sons of Anak?”

The Israelites eventually succeed in taking hold of the land of Palestine, but soon falter into the worship of pagan gods. According to the Bible, the Jews are told repeatedly not to intermarry with the Canaanites, nor to worship their idols. Despite these warnings, not only do the early Israelites intermarry extensively with their subjects, but adopt their pagan ways, by worshipping Baal and Astarte, the Canaanite versions of Nimrod and Semiramis.

Though known by different names to different peoples, this dying-god and goddess shared common characteristics. They were consistently identified with the Sun, who in winter journeyed “beneath” the earth, into the Underworld. They were therefore believed to “die”, and to resurrect in spring, corresponding to the Christian Easter. Because Baal and his sister Astarte, were regarded as twins, as well married to each other, they were identified as a single androgynous god, symbolized by Venus, whose original Latin name was Lucifer.

Basically, the ancient pagans’ belief was dualistic. They believed there to be two powers in Heaven, a good God and evil one. Because he was believed to journey there in winter, the dying-god was regarded as the god of the Underworld, reigning over the souls of the dead, and therefore identified with evil. This led to the practice of black magic. To protect oneself from him, or to summon his powers to command spirits against one’s enemies, it was believed necessary to perform heinous sacrifices. Most common was the sacrifice of children, rites which were performed in drunkenness, attended with loud music, to drown out the screams of the suffering child, and followed by sexual orgies. These were the basis of the rites later known as “Mysteries”.

The Medes:

According to Kabbalistic interpretation, the entire line of Jewish kings were descended from Joseph's son Judah, and Tamar, his daughter-in-law, a Canaanite woman who had disguised herself as a prostitute in order to seduce him. Their son Perez was David’s ancestor. Solomon, to whom much of Kabbalistic tradition is attributed, was the son of David from Bathsheba, a Hittite woman. Therefore, according to Kabbalistic interpretation, though the Messiah is to be a descendant of the royal line of David, being the “Son of David”, he is also descended from the Satanic lineage of the Fallen Angels, through the Canaanites.

Therefore, through intermarriage with the Canaanites, the later Kabbalists could claim descent from the Anakim, and the Fallen Angels, or Lucifer and his legions. These Anakim, supposedly, were the original inhabitants of Atlantis, or Aryans. The Aryans are considered by the Illuminati to be the original core bloodline, a hybrid of humans and “divine” beings, responsible for the preservation of occult knowledge. According to modern historians, influenced by Kabbalistic legend, these Aryans, also known as Indo-Europeans, survived the Flood, or sinking of Atlantis, and found refuge in the mountains of Asia. From there they emerged the conquer the known peoples, spreading their customs and language to Central Asia, Iran, or Persia, and into Europe.

Interestingly, these various peoples have also historically been identified with the so-called Lost Tribes of Israel. An important branch of these is the Medes of Iran, among whom the original Lost Tribes had been scattered, before moving on into Armenia and Southern Russia.

After the death of King Solomon, in 928 BC, his realm was divided into the Kingdom of Israel in the north and the Kingdom of Judea. The Kingdom of Israel covered most of the central and northern land of Israel and was inhabited by descendants of ten of the original twelve tribes that conquered the land of Canaan under the leadership of Joshua: Asher, Dan, Ephraim, Gad, Issachar, Manasseh, Naphtali, Reuben, Simeon, and Zebulon. The Kingdom of Judea centered on Jerusalem and the Judean highlands, and comprised the remaining two tribes of Judah and Benjamin.

A 125 years before the same fate would afflict the nation of Judah, the Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrians in 721 BCE, and in line with the general policy of the Assyrians, its inhabitants were deported to other regions of their empire. According to the Assyrian king Tiglath-Pileser, 13,750 of the wisest and most skilled of the Israelites were deported by 733 BC, while 27,290 more Israelite sages, musicians and artisans were brought to Babylonia by Sargon II in 727 BC . According to II Kings 17:16-20, this disaster came upon the nation of Israel because:

They defied all the commands of the Lord their God and made two calves from metal. They set up an Asherah pole and worshipped Baal and all the forces of heaven. They even sacrificed their own sons and daughters in the fire. They consulted fortune-tellers and used sorcery and sold themselves to evil, arousing the Lord’s anger. And because the Lord was angry, he swept them from his presence. Only the tribe of Judah remained in the land. But even the people of Judah refused to obey the commands of the Lord their God. They walked down the same evil paths that Israel had established. So the Lord rejected all the descendants of Israel. He punished them by handing them over to their attackers until they were destroyed.

By the sixth century BC, the Medes were able to establish an empire that stretched from Azerbaijan to north and Central Asia and Afghanistan. The Medes also mixed with other Iranians, especially Persians. Thus many modern Iranians are descendants of Medes. However, Mede heritage today is claimed particularly by groups in the western part of the Iranian Plateau, such as the Kurds, Lurs, Isfahan and the Turkic languages-speaking Azeri.

The Scythians;

Although, the ten tribes, excepting Judah and Benjamin, have popularly been considered “lost” ever since, in ancient Jewish sources, their existence was well-known. According to Josephus, “...the Ten Tribes who are beyond the Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, whose numbers cannot be estimated.”[4] Similarly, the Apocrypha presume to also know their location. In the Fourth Book of Ezra, the Ten Tribes were said to have been carried by Hosea, a prophet in Israel in the eighth century BC, to the Euphrates, at the narrow passages of the river, from which they went on for a journey of a year and a half to a place called “Arzareth”.[5]

This would have taken them to the land of the Scythians, whom Josephus and others have identified them as the ancestors of Gog and Magog, among whom they would have been absorbed. According to Herodotus, the Scythians emerged from beyond the Euphrates across the Armenian river, Araxes, a river that borders Armenia, Iran and Azerbaijan.[6] The Scythians were an Iranian-speaking people, who had come from the northern shore of the Black Sea and invaded Armenia and Asia Minor. The Scythians first appear in Assyrian annals as Ishkuzai, related to the modern term “Ashkenazi”, from Ashkenaz, who was the son of Magog’'s brother Gomer.

The most significant Scythian tribes mentioned in the Greek sources resided in the basin of the Don river, just north of the Crimea, from where they invaded Armenia and Cappadocia, to become allies of the early Mede rulers.[7] In the time of Herodotus, the Cappadocians occupied the whole region from the Black Sea to the Taurus mountains, in eastern Turkey, from which the Euphrates River descends into Syria.

Certain etymologies propose that the word Scythians, from “Sacae”, in turn is derived from “Isaac Sons” or “Sons of Isaac.” Isaac, Abraham’s son, had two sons, Jacob, the father of the nation of Israel, and Esau, the forefather of the Edomites.

Certain etymologies propose that the word Scythians, from “Sacae”, in turn is derived from “Isaac Sons” or “Sons of Isaac.” Isaac, Abraham'’s son, had two sons, Jacob, the father of the nation of Israel, and Esau, the forefather of the Edomites. In the Bible, Esau was tricked out of his birthright, the leadership of Israel, by his brother Jacob. Esau was a red haired, or “red all over like a hairy garment”, and called Edom, which means red.15 Likewise, the Scythians, according to Herodotus, “have all deep blue eyes, and bright red hair.” The legend persisted, such that, during the Middle Ages, German Jews regarded southern Russia and Central Asia as the location of the Lost Tribes, known to them as Red Jews, and identified with Gog and Magog.In addition to the so-called “Lost Tribes”, in the History of the Nation of Archers, by Armenian historian of the thirteenth century, Grigor Akner, corroborated the legend that the Scythians were Edomites:

The Esavites, who are the Scythians, descended from Esau, son of Isaac. They are black, wild, and strange looking. From them descend the Boramichk’ and Lekzik’, who dwell in holes and traps and perpetrate many crimes. And it is said that the Edomites who are the Franks also are descended from him. These three peoples, descendants of Hagar, Ketura, and Esau, mingled together and gave birth to another people, strange looking and wicked, called Tatar [Mongols], which means sharp and light.

Along with the Edomites, the nation of the Scythians is also closely related to that of the Tribe of Simeon. Apparently, there were only nine tribes in the northern kingdom of Israel, after the Levites joined Judah. Simeon too was still settled in the portion of the tribe of Judah although part of Simeon had immigrated to various other locations outside the Holy Land. 2Chron. 4:43-44 describes some men of Simeon who immigrated from Judah to Edom: “And some of them, even of the sons of Simeon, five hundred men, went to mount Seir, having for their captains Pelatiah, and Neariah, and Rephaiah, and Uzziel, the sons of Ishi. And they smote the rest of the Amalekites that were escaped, and dwelt there unto this day.” Thus the kingdom of Judah, after the fall of Samaria and before the Babylonian captivity, consisted of four tribes: Judah, Benjamin, Simeon, and Levi.