29 replies to this topic

[Dizasta]

SIG SG550 Sauer (Switzerland)

Caliber: 5.56mm NATO (.223 Rem)
Action: Gas, semi-auto
Barrel lenght: 650 mm
Weight: 7,02 kg loaded with scope
Lenght: 1130 mm
Magazine: 5, 20 or 30 rounds detachable box.


SIG 550 Sniper is a "sniperized" variand of the famous Sig 550/Stg.90 assault rifle, manufactured by SAN Swiss Arms (former Sig Arms, now - a member of the SIGARMS group).
550 Sniper is a good short to medium military marksman rifle or police/antiterror rifle, capable of quick and accurate follow-up shots.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TPG-1 Alpine (Austria)

Caliber(s): variety of chamberings from .223/5.56x45 and up to .338 Lapua
Operation: manual operated, rotating bolt
Barrel: 650 mm for all chamberings except .338 Lapua, which has 700mm barrel
Weight: n/a
Length: n/a
Feed Mechanism: 5 rounds detachable box magazine
Expected accuracy: up to 0.5 MOA with selected match-grade ammunition

Unique Alpine TPG-1 rifle (TPG stands for Taktisches Prдzisions Gewehr - tactical precision rifle) is manufactured in Austria by the Unique Alpine AG. TPG-1 is a modular, high precision rifle which can be used for special military and law enforcement applications. TPG-1 is a modular design, based on the specially designed action with three-lug rotating bolt. The action is securely bedded to a short aluminium block, which then receives detachable forend and  buttstock units. Top of the action is fitted with integral Picatinny type rail for rapid scope amounting. Buttstock is made from polymer and is fully adjustable, and can be quickly removed from the bedding block for compact storage and transportation, then securely re-installed back. Detachable forend is fitted with bipod rails at the bottom. Match-grade barrels are fluted and usually fitted with effective muzzle brakes, short barrels with integral silencer are available in 7.62x51/.308 caliber. Barrels are quick-detachable and can be replaced by the shooter.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cheytac M-200 Intervention (America)

Caliber: .408 CheyTac
Operation: manually operated rotating bolt action
Barrel: 762 mm (30")
Weight: 12.3 kg
Length: 1400 mm (stock retracted), 1220 mm (stock collapsed)
Feed Mechanism: 5 rounds detachable box magazine

The Intervention M200 is a manually operated, rotating bolt rifle. The retractable buttstock allows for adjustment of the length of pull, and can be fully collapsed for storage and transportation. The barrel can be quickly removed for replacement, or storage and transportation. The butt contains integral real monopod, which is hinged, and can be folded up when not in use. The heavy, fluted barrel is free floated, and its rear part is enclosed by tubular shroud, which serves as a mount for integral folding bipod and carrying handle. Barrel is provided with effective muzzle brake, which can be replaced with OPSINC suppressor (silencer). M200 rifle is fed using detachable single stack magazines, which hold 5 rounds. Top of receiver is fitted with permanent MilStd Picatinny rail. Standard scope is Nightforce NXS 5.5-22X, which can be upgraded with AN/PVS-14 Night Vision module and AN/PEQ-2 IR laser. No iron sights are provided with M200 rifle.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Erma SR-100 (Germany)

Caliber(s): 7.62mm NATO (.308Win), .300 Winchester magnum and .338 Lapua (8.6x70mm)
Operation: rotating bolt action
Barrel: 650 mm for 7.62mm NATO; 750 mm for .300 win mag and .338 lapua mm
Weight: 6.4 - 6.9 kg w/o scope, depending on the barrel installed
Length: 1260 or 1360 mm
Feed Mechanism: 10 (.308), 8 (.300 wm) or 5 (.338) rounds detachable box magazines

SR-100 featured quickly interchangeable barrels of three different calibers, .308 winchester (7.62x51mm NATO), .300 Winchester Magnum and .338 Lapua Magnum. Calibers can be swapped on one rifle in the matter of minutes by replacing the barrel, bolt and magazine. The barrel is fixed to the receiver by patented eccentrical lock. The lock is operated by the allen wrench type tool. When lock is released, barrel could be simply pulled out of the receiver and be replaced by another barrel. When locked, barrel is free floated for maximum accuracy. All barrels are fitted with highly effective muzzle brakes. Box type magazines have different capacities for different calibers and when in place, are completely enclosed by rifle stock. Magazine release is operated by two butons, situated on both sides of the stock, below the ejection port. The stock is made from laminated wood and is fully ajustable for lenght of pull, height and the position of the cheekpiece. The front part of the stock can be extended by the additional detachable unit, to move the bipod mount forward, if required. Trigger is also ajustable for weight, pull, position and amount of slack. SR-100 is equipped with 3 position bolt mounted safety. There are no open sights, and SR-100 is equipped with universal rail on the top of the receiver. Usually SR-100 is fitted with Leupold, Zeiss or Schmidt & Bender high-end scopes with magnification about 10X or so.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AS50 Enforcer (Britain)

Caliber: 12.7x99mm / .50BMG
Operation: gas operated, semiautomatic
Barrel: 692 mm
Weight: 14.1 kg empty
Length: 1369 mm
Feed Mechanism: 5 rounds detachable box magazine

The AS50 fifty caliber (12.7mm) sniper / antimateriel rifle is the latest development of the famous British company Accuracy International Ltd. First displayed in January 2005 in USA at the ShotShow-2005, this rifle reportedly has been developed especially for US SOCOM users, and is now being tested by the US NAVY Special Operations center. The AS50 is to provide combat operators with highly accurate and rapid aimed fire at extended ranges. To achieve such goal, the AS50 is built around gas operated, semiautomatic action, with "single rear locking" (most probably, this mean a tilting bolt). The two-part receiver is machined from high grade steel, the barrel is free-floated and fitted with effective muzzle brake. Easily detachable buttstock is fitted with recoil-reducing buttpad, as well as with folding rear grip, which also serves as a rear support leg. The folding quick-detachable bipod with adjustable legs is fitted as a standard. Top of the receiver is equipped with full length Picatinny type rail which can accept any compatible scope mount; two additional rails are mounted on either side of the short handguard / barrel jacket. Rifle is fitted with four sling mounts, and can be brought down to basic sub-assemblies within three minutes for maintenance or compact transportation or storage. Rifle is fed using single stack detachable box magazines, which holt five rounds of ammunition.

=====================================================================

Considering the battlefield environment of PA, when it would encage the enemy, the ability to generate a rapid rate kill which is at day and night. Translated, would mean a severing damage inflicted on the enemy soldier's moral.

PA would essentially encage in combat in three different geographically situated environments which would be priority capture areas. One being the Siachen, arctic ice weather and remote manoeuvrability makes it ideal for PA to employ long range precision sniper teams. Two being farm lands of the Indus Plains, green and with a tinge of forestry allows PA to force a decisive result in our favor. Three being deserts, dunes and marshes ..... which by any effect would not be suitable for snipers.

So two out of three makes it reasonably good for PA to raise 25-50 units, which would be scattered across the army and also would feature in Special Ops (which i assume they aleady are).

-No gutter-rats (indians) allowed-

Edited by Dizasta, 05 September 2006 - 06:26 PM.

[Solid_Snake]

AWP     HEADSHOT!!!

[M1Tanker]

How about none of the above? That's a pretty big spread of rifles to pick from, from 5.56 (a 5.56 sniper rifle???) to a 12.7 (.7 m long!!!) anti-materiel personal cannon.

A sniper is not going to want to carry the .50 cannon up some mountain.

A sniper's weapon should be simple (bolt action), powerful (7.62 NATO/WARSAW and above), durable (stainless and synthetic), and light (speaks for itself) and also be chambered for a round common to the existing supply system (can you find a .338 Lapua in rural Pakistan? Nope. I bet you can find lots of 7.62 NATO though...).

The ultimate sniper rifle, in my opinion, is the Remington M77 (civilian Model 700). It's 40 years old, available in stainless or titanium, and a ring mount for every scope on the market. It's chambered for nearly every deer round you can imagine (30-06 is a favorite) and is offered with a full-floating bull barrel if that type of accuracy is needed.

Now, price. Guess how much those high-zoot .50s run? $10,000 each. A civilian Model 700 with blued full floating bull barrel is $750.

Many of my friends hunt with Model 700s and swear by them. Some of the rifles are much older than the shooters and will still shoot 1.0 MOAs with shitty Wal-Mart ammunition and iron sights.



My 2 cents.

Tanky

[Captain Bribes]

Ive heard of a sniper rifle that can kill from just over a mile away, I think its in use with the British SAS, We should train snipers thousands of them and put them all along the border to pick of enemy combatants, Fighting a low level war requires that we fight it with local level it would seem.

[Dizasta]

How about none of the above? That's a pretty big spread of rifles to pick from, from 5.56 (a 5.56 sniper rifle???) to a 12.7 (.7 m long!!!) anti-materiel personal cannon. A sniper is not going to want to carry the .50 cannon up some mountain.

A sniper's weapon should be simple (bolt action), powerful (7.62 NATO/WARSAW and above), durable (stainless and synthetic), and light (speaks for itself) and also be chambered for a round common to the existing supply system (can you find a .338 Lapua in rural Pakistan? Nope. I bet you can find lots of 7.62 NATO though...).

The ultimate sniper rifle, in my opinion, is the Remington M77 (civilian Model 700). It's 40 years old, available in and a ring mount for every scope on the market. It's chambered for nearly every deer round you can imagine (30-06 is a favorite) and is offered with a full-floating bull barrel if that type of accuracy is needed.

Now, price. Guess how much those high-zoot .50s run? $10,000 each. A civilian Model 700 with blued full floating bull barrel is $750. Many of my friends hunt with Model 700s and swear by them. Some of the rifles are much older than the shooters and will still shoot 1.0 MOAs with shitty Wal-Mart ammunition and iron sights.

My 2 cents.

Tanky

Although your argument holds weight, its not in that perspective that i talk of employing Snipers!

In frontline battlefield environment, a sniper with a '50' can be trained and used for deadly results. If i were be a civilian consultant to the Pakistan Army, i would ensure and develop tactics were Snipers are strategically deployed not as pathfinders, but rather as dead-pointers! Where my pointer (sniper) can create havoc with devastating results to moving armor of the enemy. Be it mountain division, be it desert armor brigade or be it urban warfare.

A few examples .....

"Heavy Firepower for Light Infantry," Barrett Firearms Manufacturing, Inc. brochure advertising its Model 82A1 50 caliber sniper rifle.

This revolutionary .50 caliber semi-automatic rifle allows sophisticated targets to be destroyed or disabled by a single soldier. Armored personnel carriers, radar dishes, communications vehicles, aircraft and area denial submunitions are all vulnerable to the quick strike capability of the Barrett 82A1. With decisive force and without the need for the manpower and expense of mortar or rocket crews, forces can engage the opposition at distances far beyond the range of small arms fire....The 82A1's light weight makes transportation as easy as walking....With night vision equipment, the weapon is even more effective under cover of darkness. The muzzle brake reduces felt recoil to no more than that of a 12 gauge shotgun....The advantages are obvious when you consider that many of the same targets for rocket and mortar fire can be neutralized with M33 ball, API M8 or Multipurpose ammunition.

These heavy sniper rifles were originally intended as anti materiel weapons for stand-off attack against high-value targets, such as radar control vans, missiles, parked aircraft, and bulk fuel and ammunition storage sites....It is their ability to shoot through all but the heaviest shielding material, and their devastating effects, that make them valuable psychological weapons.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These are but some of the results which embeded Ops Snipers Units in Pakistan Army, can produce. Essentially performing as an invisible web which moves with PA formations on the battlefield.

Good points on your part as well Tanky!!

[pilot_dude]

i am guessing the sinpers would move alone in pairs of two as scouts a few miles ahed of larger forces? am i correct? because i read a story which was fiction yet based on true tactics used by the US army in the Vietnam war. They would have the snipers kilometre ahead of 'larger forces'....as scouts!


please correct me if i am wrong and or feel free to correct my gramer about 'larger forces'!!!

[M1Tanker]

Although your argument holds weight, its not in that perspective that i talk of employing Snipers!

Dizasta, no one loves all forms of .50s than me, and .50 sniper rifles are really great for taking out lightly armored targets like M113s and BMP-1 and -2.

The US and UK use .50 snipers in mechanized units only. The .50 is just so heavy and long it negates the sniper's sole "armor," the ability to move stealthily. Carrying around the .50 is like carrying around a drunken date. The .50 can't be carried up stairs or through the forest but it can ride in a track and be displaced when needed. The track gives away the sniper's position.

Since light snipers must walk (quickly and quietly) a light and durable rifle is a must which is why I would prefer something in the vein of an M77.

Tanky

[asamih]

i would go for the AS50 of britain for the pakistan army and special ops it also looks abit beter than the others. Not to mention its killing power with a 12.7mm round.

[night~wolf]

The PM Super Magnum, or Super Magnum (SM) as it is now known, is essentially an Artic Warfare rifle , so suitable to siachen sector. . This rifle is approaching the range of the .50 cals, but yet its only slightly heavier then the standard 7.62mm version of the rifle. Accuracy of all the AI rifles gets down around .5 MOA.

[sobank]

L96 AI all the way.

can take it in pakistan anywhere including Siachin.

[lein303]

we use M82's

50 cliibre snipers.

these are better then all of the ones posted above......they can penetrate a concrete block wall and kill the person behind it, from a mile away (1600 meters)

these rifles are kick ass

M82A1

    * Caliber: .50 BMG (12.7 x 99 mm)
    * Operation: short recoil, semi-automatic
    * Overall length: 1448 mm
    * Barrel length: 737 mm
    * Feed device: 10-round detachable box magazine
    * Sights: 10x telescopic
    * Mass: 12.9 kg empty
    * Muzzle velocity: 854 m/s (M33 Ball)
    * Max effective range: 1800 m
    * Expected accuracy: 1.5 to 2.0 MOA or better

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M82_%28rifle%29

from left to right: .50 BMG, .338 lapua Magnum, 7.62mm (AK47 round), 5.56mm(nato round used in m16 etc etc)

[Dizasta]

Related article on M82A1

The Barrett Firearms company was founded by the Ronnie Barrett for a single purpose of building semi-automatic rifles chambered for powerful .50BMG ammunition, originally developed for and used in Browning M2HB heavy machine guns. Barrett began his work in early 1980s and first working rifles were available in 1982, hence the designation M82. Barrett continued to develop his rifle through 1980s, and developed improved M82A1 rifle by 1986. The first real success was the purchase of about 100 M82A1 rifles by the Sweden Army in 1989. Major success followed in 1990 - 1991, when US Military purchased numbers of the M82A1 during the operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm in Kuwait and Iraq. About 125 rifles were initially bought by US Marine Corps, orders from US Army and Air Force followed soon. The M82A1 is known for US Military as the SASR - "Special Applications Scoped Rifle", and it was and still is used as an anti-materiel weapon and EOD (explosive ordnance disposal) tool. The long effective range along with high energy and availability of highly effective ammunition such as API and Raufoss M213 allows for effective operations against targets like radar cabins, trucks, parked aircrafts and so on. M82 also can be used to defeat enemy snipers or criminals from standoff range or when targets are behind the cover, but the anti-personnel work is not a major application for Barrett M82 (or any other .50BMG rifle, for that matter).

Further development led to the M82A2 bull-pup rifle (1987), which was designed to be fired from the shoulder, but did not succeed, and was soon dropped from production. The M82A2 was obviously designed as a cheap anti-helicopter weapon, suitable for use against highly mobile targets when fired from the shoulder. The latest derivative of the M82 family is the M82A1M rifle, adopted by USMC as the M82A3 SASR and bought in significant numbers. This rifle differs from M82A1 in that it have a full length Picatinny rail that allows a huge variety of scopes and sighting devices to be mounted on the rifle. Other changes are addition of the rear monopod, slightly lightened mechanism and detachable bipod and muzzle brake. The Barrett M82 rifles were bought by various military and police countries from at least 30 countries, such as Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Greece, Italy, Mexico, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, UK, USA and others. The M82 also is widely used for civilian .50 caliber long range shooting competitions, being fired accurately out to 1000 yards (911 meters) and even further.

As a side note I must point out that the Barrett M82A1 rifle was recently (2002) used as a platform for experimental OSW (Objective Sniper Weapon) prototype. The M82A1 rifle was fitted with shorter barrel of 25mm caliber, and fired low-velocity high explosive shells developed for 25mm OCSW automatic grenade launcher. The experimental OSW showed an increased effectiveness against various targets but the recoil was beyond the human limitations.

The M82 is a recoil operated, short barrel stroke, semi-automatic firearm. When gun is fired, barrel initially recoils for a short distance (about an inch - 25 mm) being securely locked by the rotating bolt. After the short travel a post on the bolt, engaged in the curved cam track in the receiver, turns bolt to unlock it from the barrel. As soon as the bolt unlocks, the accelerator arm strikes it back, transferring some part of the recoil energy of the barrel to the bolt to achieve the reliable cycling. Then barrel is stopped and the bolt continues back, to extract and eject a spent case. On its return stroke bolt strips the fresh cartridge from the box magazine and feeds it into the chamber and finally locks itself to the barrel. The striker also is cocked on the return stroke of the bolt. The gun is fed from the large detachable box magazines, that hold 10 rounds.

The receiver is made from two parts (upper and lower), stamped from sheet steel and connected by cross-pins. Heavy barrel is fluted to improve heat dissipation and save weight, and fitted with large and effective reactive muzzle brake. On the earlier models the muzzle brakes were of round cross-section, latter M82 rifles are equipped with two chamber brakes of rectangular cross-section. M82A1 rifles are fitted with scope mount and a folding backup iron sights. M82 rifles are often equipped with Leupold M series 10X telescope sights. The M82A1M (USMC M82A3) rifles have long Picatinny accessory rail mounted on the top of the receiver, that can accept wide variety of scopes, day or night. Every M82 rifle is equipped with folding carrying handle and with a folding bipod (both are detachable on M82A3). M82A3 also fitted with the detachable rear monopod under the butt. The buttpad is fitted with soft recoil pad to further decrease the felt recoil. M82A1 and M82A3 rifles could be mounted on the M3 or M122 infantry tripods (originally intended for machine guns) or on vehicles using special Barrett soft-mount. M82A1 can be fitted with carry sling but according to those who carried it in the field, M82 is way too uncomfortable to be carried on sling due to excessive length and heavy weight. It is usually carried in special carry soft or hard case.

The M82A2 differed from M82A1 mostly in that the pistol grip along with trigger had been placed ahead of the magazine, and the buttpad has been placed below the receiver, just after the magazine. Additional forward grip was added below the receiver, and the scope mount has been moved forward too.

link

As you can read for yourself, the M82A1s were the first of their kind (ie first of Barrets production). We've moved a long way from the 80s, when this weapon was developed. Our army has been using it since and now needs to introduce a more advance Rifle for our snipers. It is also imperative that we introduce a new doctrine of Snipers and their related targets, tasks, operational abilities and priorities. How they should be forged with holding formations of PA's battle groups, divisions & brigades. To spread them out throughout the PA's Corps formations.

We have Manpads, shoulder-fired SAMs and APCs with SAMs to deal with incoming enemy air-threat. However what would make any difference if the enemy formations carry the same defensive manpads. Snipers embeded in PA's holding formations, would be able to take out their Manpads, disable their SAM capable APCs or IVFs!!

This is just but one of the many things that we can and should introduce in PA's Sniper Doctrine. To open a whole new avenue for our Jawans.

Famous Browning M2 was initially designed in USA as an aircraft gun, but in 1921 modernized for ground use and adopted as Model 1921 machinegun. In 1932 Model 1921 MG was modernized again and adopted under designation of M2. Later, after introduction of heavier barrel (for increased practical fire rate and number of rounds between barrel change) the gun was named M2HB. In M2HB, every barrel replacement must be followed with time-consuming procedure of headspace and timing ajustment, and only relatively recently QCB (Quick Change Barrel) kits were introduced. This kit may be used in any M2HB gun, allowing quick barrel change under the battle conditions. This version may be called M2HB-QCB or M2HQCB.
For todays standarts, M2HB is quite heavy gun, and recently an US based company Ramo Defence introduced M2 Lightweight machinegun. M2 Lightweight is a new development weapon designed as a response to both ground and air forces requirement for a reduced weight .50 Caliber weapon. Utilizing the M2 Browning principles and almost 75% parts of the original M2, the weapon has been upgraded to include an adjustable buffer to vary firing rate, a patented quick change lightweight "Stellite" lined, chrome bore barrel with flash suppressor, "MAX SAFE" charging system, and trigger safety switch. M2 Lightweight weights only 27 kg (11 kg less than original M2HB), and has ajustable rate of fireof 550-750 rounds/min.
M2 is a belt-fed, air-cooled, recoil operated full-auto only weapon. M2 operates wia short moving barrel. It could be used from M3 tripod (can not be used agains air targets), on M63 Anti-aircraft mount, it can be pintle, turret or coaxila mounted on combat vehicles or aircrafts. M2 is manufactured in USA by RAMO Defence, General Dynamics, in Belgium - by FN Herstal and by many other compabies. M2 adopted by US Armed forces and in more than 30 other countries.

Incidently, Barret Firearms developed the M82A1s from this AA/Machine Gun!!! We have come a long way from that. From 1980 to 2006, a quarter century is sufficient enough time to now introduce a new Sniper Rifle for PA Sniper Units!!!! Don't you think!!!

[blain2]

Dizasta,

The first picture in your post about SIG550 is an HK firearm (scoped G-3 or MSG-90).  Pakistan CT units (Police) do have the Sig550 in use.

Aside from this, the standard sniper weapon of the Pakistan Army is Steyr SSG69.  Which is a very good sniper rifle by any standard.  HK ones like PSG-1 (which we also have) are moreso for use by the CT teams like SSG's zarrar company and other CT teams within the provinces or that of the Pakistan Rangers.

Barrett light Fifty is an AMR and not specifically an anti-personnel type of rifle.  So acurracy wise, Barett does not even come close to the SSG69 or some of the other tactical sniper rifles on the market currently.  It is mostly used by the SSG and ANF teams to interdict drug shipments (used against soft skinned vehicles).

[Dizasta]

Dizasta,

The first picture in your post about SIG550 is an HK firearm (scoped G-3 or MSG-90).  Pakistan CT units (Police) do have the Sig550 in use.

Aside from this, the standard sniper weapon of the Pakistan Army is Steyr SSG69.  Which is a very good sniper rifle by any standard.  HK ones like PSG-1 (which we also have) are moreso for use by the CT teams like SSG's zarrar company and other CT teams within the provinces or that of the Pakistan Rangers.

Barrett light Fifty is a AMR and not specifically an anti-personnel type of rifle.  So acurracy wise, Barett does not even come close to the SSG69 or some of the other tactical sniper rifles on the market currently.  It is mostly used by the SSG and ANF teams to interdict drug shipments (used against soft skinned vehicles).

Caliber: 7.62x51mm NATO (.308) and .243
Operation: Bolt Action, Rotating bolt
Length: 1140mm
Barrel: 650mm
Weight: 3.9 kg empty; 4.6 kg with telescope
Feed Mechanism: 5 round rotary magazine, or 10 round box mag.

Steyr SSG (ScharfShutzenGewehr 69) was developed and is being built by Austrian company Steyr-Daimler-Puch. SSG 69 was adopted by Austrian Army in 1969, thus gaining its name. Technically, SSG 69 is a bolt action, rotating bolt, magazine fed rifle. Bolt locking is achieved via 6 lugs. Barrel is cold-hamer forged. Standart feeding device is detachable Steyr-type rotary magazine for 5 rounds. Box magazines for 10 rounds were offered for some time but now discontinued. SSG 69 (AKA SSG-P1) was issued with iron sights installed, other modifications are offered without iron sights. Steyr's SSG 69 faced off in USA in 1986-87 with the rifle that would become the M24 in the final round of the process to select the US Army's new sniper rifle. It was narrowly beaten by the Remington Model 700, but only in the distances beyond 600 meters. Within that distance, both rifles produced same sub-minute-of-angle accuracy. Newerthless, the SSG 69 is an excellent, albeit more expencive, choice for non-military tactical rifle, where shots beyond 400 meters are rare. Today, the Steyr SSG is offered to the military, police and civilian shooters in 4 different models: the SSG-PI, SSG-PII, SSG-PIIK and the SSG-PIV. SSG-PI was originally developed as a counter-sniper rifle, and was the first such weapon to be equipped with a syntetic stock. It has a 26" (660mm) barrel and is equipped with iron sights, as well as standart NATO-spec dovetails for a telescopic sight. The SSG-PII is built for police use as a tactical or sniper rifle. It has a 26" heavy barrel. it lacks iron sights and has an oversized bolt handle for quick follow-up shots. The SSG-PIIK differs from SSG-PII only by 20" (508mm) barrel for use in crowded urban situations. Although the barrel is shorther, there is no lack of accuracy out to 500 meters. The SSG-PIV is known in Europe as the SSG SD. It has 16" (406mm) barrel with detachable flash hider, which can easily be changet to sound suppressor (silencer). All SSG models has polymer stocks with removable spacers in the buttplate to allow the stock to be fitted for each individual shooter.

This is the Rifle, which is the standard issue PA Sniper's Weapon. I agree that this weapon is very useful in tactical sniper ops, there is no doubt. However, my dear friend and brother, the core focus of my discussion is the use of 50s (.50 calibers) in PA advancing and holding formations, which would not be used for tactical gains, rather for turning battlefield losses into our advantage.

Snipers have been and are used for varying tactical deployments. My suggestion to Pakistan Army's leadership, is to incorporate a decisive doctrine which inacts Snipers with 50 cals, embeded in PA's formations. Be they Mountain Divisions, Armored Divisions, Mechinized Infantry or Special Ops (SSG).

In battle mode, when the heat is turnin up on the ground ....... these 50 cals would wreak havoc on the enemy!

[blain2]

This is the Rifle, which is the standard issue PA Sniper's Weapon. I agree that this weapon is very useful in tactical sniper ops, there is no doubt. However, my dear friend and brother, the core focus of my discussion is the use of 50s (.50 calibers) in PA advancing and holding formations, which would not be used for tactical gains, rather for turning battlefield losses into our advantage.

Snipers have been and are used for varying tactical deployments. My suggestion to Pakistan Army's leadership, is to incorporate a decisive doctrine which inacts Snipers with 50 cals, embeded in PA's formations. Be they Mountain Divisions, Armored Divisions, Mechinized Infantry or Special Ops (SSG).

In battle mode, when the heat is turnin up on the ground ....... these 50 cals would wreak havoc on the enemy!

My own humble opinion is that AMRs are good weapons but limited in their role against soft skinned vehicles and APCs.  The other problem with most AMRs is that in the hands of infantry, they are a heavy and cumbersome weapon which requires a certain amount of setup and also excessive weight to be carried by one soldier.  The other issue is that the AMRs are very expensive.  Currently the Army is planning on providing UBGLs to the infantry units and other equipment.  so I do not see AMRs finding their way in a large number in the recent future.  Typically in the Indo-Pak scenario, the Indian mechanized formations would be led by their armoured corps against which the AMRs can't do much.  In roles such as CT, insurgency, drug interdiction etc., this weapon can be used and afaik, it is being used.

[Dizasta]

My own humble opinion is that AMRs are good weapons but limited in their role against soft skinned vehicles and APCs.  The other problem with most AMRs is that in the hands of infantry, they are a heavy and cumbersome weapon which requires a certain amount of setup and also excessive weight to be carried by one soldier.  The other issue is that the AMRs are very expensive.  Currently the Army is planning on providing UBGLs to the infantry units and other equipment.  so I do not see AMRs finding their way in a large number in the recent future.  Typically in the Indo-Pak scenario, the Indian mechanized formations would be led by their armoured corps against which the AMRs can't do much.  In roles such as CT, insurgency, drug interdiction etc., this weapon can be used and afaik, it is being used.

Yes ofcourse Blain, you're absolutely right about that brotherman! It is not as a solo unit that PA Snipers would be able to establish decisive result for our formations. Rather, it is when performing within the core formations made up of Armor, APCs, IVFs, Gunships, Shoulder-fired SAMs and Infantry, that these Specialist Battlefield Snipers of PA, would enable to turn the tide in our favor.

Also, if you look at it from another perspective, the PA mountain divisions would benefit immensly from the 50 cal snipers. Which would complement the spot snipers of PA mountain warfare units.

I have no disagreement with you my dear brother, i'm simply suggesting an alternative that you and other fellow countrymen can analyse and debate.

You know what they say ..... two heads are better than one!

Lookin forward to your reply!

[blain2]

Yes ofcourse Blain, you're absolutely right about that brotherman! It is not as a solo unit that PA Snipers would be able to establish decisive result for our formations. Rather, it is when performing within the core formations made up of Armor, APCs, IVFs, Gunships, Shoulder-fired SAMs and Infantry, that these Specialist Battlefield Snipers of PA, would enable to turn the tide in our favor.

Also, if you look at it from another perspective, the PA mountain divisions would benefit immensly from the 50 cal snipers. Which would complement the spot snipers of PA mountain warfare units.

I have no disagreement with you my dear brother, i'm simply suggesting an alternative that you and other fellow countrymen can analyse and debate.

You know what they say ..... two heads are better than one!

Lookin forward to your reply!

Bro, not posting to disagree.  Just sharing my $.02  
As far as I know, we have used 37mm AAA guns in direct firing role against built up bunkers and positions across the LoC.  They have a devastating punch but obviously this is one place where AMRs can be used.  I too can find many uses for them but the requirements of the Army and their own logic in terms of inducting weapons is quite different than our own.  Effectiveness of a weapon system is only one aspect, the other is the reliability, spares (very important) and availability of ammo (Pakistan usually does not induct a weapon for which it cannot produce ammunition locally).  As you can see, most of the AMRs are very specialized weapons and require a specific type of ammunition which currently is not produced in Pakistan...that requires quite a bit of work..rifles like Sig550 (5.56mm) and others like SSG69, HK PSG-1 (7.62mm) use ammo which is made and even exported from Pakistan so the logistics of inducting a rifle (be it a carbine, SMG or sniper rifle), are very simple.  Heavier caliber requires new tooling and production lines to be setup.

[*Zarrar Jareeh*]

Dizasta bro keep in mind also that these 0.50 calibre AMRs aren't very stealthy. They are cumbersome in transportation and tend to kick up a mini-sandstorm when fired, giving away the position of the sniper. But inspite of that I do see the point which you are making. And anyways we already have those 0.50s (pics of the ANF with them) so what's the worry

[pilot_dude]

what about STYER AUG's???

I SEE NO POINT IN BUYING SNIPER RIFLES NOW.....PAK ARMY IS GETTING A MODERNISATION IN 2015 WHERE JAWANS WILL BE GIVEN STYER AUGs.....THEY CAN BE USED AS SNIPER RIFLES DONT YOU THINK?

I KNOW IS MORE INTENDED AS USE FOR AN ASSULT RIFLE...BUT IT GETS THE JOB DONE!  

[Dizasta]

Bro, not posting to disagree.  Just sharing my $.02  

As far as I know, we have used 37mm AAA guns in direct firing role against built up bunkers and positions across the LoC.  They have a devastating punch but obviously this is one place where AMRs can be used.  I too can find many uses for them but the requirements of the Army and their own logic in terms of inducting weapons is quite different than our own.  Effectiveness of a weapon system is only one aspect, the other is the reliability, spares (very important) and availability of ammo (Pakistan usually does not induct a weapon for which it cannot produce ammunition locally).  As you can see, most of the AMRs are very specialized weapons and require a specific type of ammunition which currently is not produced in Pakistan...that requires quite a bit of work..rifles like Sig550 (5.56mm) and others like SSG69, HK PSG-1 (7.62mm) use ammo which is made and even exported from Pakistan so the logistics of inducting a rifle (be it a carbine, SMG or sniper rifle), are very simple.  Heavier caliber requires new tooling and production lines to be setup.

Mashallah Brother, its an interesting and accurate analysis you've made and i have no arguments against it at all. The most effective statement in your post relates to the logistical question mark, as it could pose a hefty sum to cough-up. However i believe (from what i've seen at POF), there are all the possibilities which exist for us to resolve this problem in smooth transition.

Indeed .50cals require different type ammo, having said that, i should also mention that we have the infrastructure and the material to develop the specific type of ammo. The need is not to totally change around the standard doctrine of PA, rather ... it is to integrate and slightly expand on nominal expense, which would bare phenomenal results.

If one looks at the current standing strength of PA, which is 500,000 (after Gen. Musharraf announced reduction by 50,000). The integration of Specialist .50cal Snipers, would not be by ratio, rather by support structure where required. So, say out of 5 mechanized infantry divisions, there'd be a requisite of 5000 trained tactical .50s embeded in dispersed among 3 divisions which would be forming either on the AJK to Skardu area, as well as the Sialkot to Lahore area and the Kutch to Tandoallah Yaar Khan area!!!

Suggest an analysis for any or some who're reading this out of interest.

what about STYER AUG's???

I SEE NO POINT IN BUYING SNIPER RIFLES NOW.....PAK ARMY IS GETTING A MODERNISATION IN 2015 WHERE JAWANS WILL BE GIVEN STYER AUGs.....THEY CAN BE USED AS SNIPER RIFLES DONT YOU THINK?

I KNOW IS MORE INTENDED AS USE FOR AN ASSULT RIFLE...BUT IT GETS THE JOB DONE!  

About this for a reason .... Dude!!!

First used by the military during the Gulf War, the .50 caliber BMG anti-armor sniper rifle is no ordinary rifle. Its design enables the destruction of military aircraft and heavy machinery from long ranges. The concept of discrete shooting distances shaped its use and image as an ideal sniper weapon. The .50 caliber was designed with the most exceptional power, accuracy and destructive characteristics of all semi-automatic rifles. The key to its lethality is the .50 caliber bullet. Although the size of the rounds is alarming, it is the energy at impact (ft-lb) that makes the rounds so destructive. Fifty caliber ammunition has more than 7 times the power on impact as the .30-06, 5 times that of the .308 and over three times that of the .338.

The deadliest .50 caliber ammunition is the Raufoss multi-purpose round. These bullets combine armor-piercing, explosive, and incendiary effects for maximum destruction. The United States Marine Corps notes that the Raufoss multi-purpose round can penetrate an inch of steel at 2000 yards. Additionally, International Defense Review estimates that the round is "probably capable of disabling a man wearing body armor who is standing behind the wall of a house at 2,000 meters." The impact of these rounds are so horrific that in 1998 the International Committee of the Red Cross tried to have the round declared an "exploding bullet" banned under international law. An excerpt from Sniper: The Skills, the Weapons, and the Experience provides an example of how the U.S. military exploited its tremendous firepower during the Gulf War: "The Barrett M82A1 was used in the Gulf War; a hundred rifles were rushed to the Marine Corps in time to see action in the desert. In one engagement, Sergeant Kenneth Terry of 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, hit and knocked out an Iraqi BMP armored personnel carrier with two armor-piercing incendiary rounds at a range of 1100 meters."

The most regularly used round of .50 caliber ammunition is called the "ball." According to the U.S. Army, ball ammunition is so powerful it can penetrate one inch of concrete, six inches of sand, and 21 inches of clay at a range of 1,640 yards. At a range of 38 yards it can penetrate an inch of armor plate and 16 inches of log wall. Armor-piercing and incendiary ammunition is another basic .50 caliber round which the U.S. Army uses against armored aircrafts and lightly armored vehicles. The armor piercing incendiary rounds are tipped with phosphorous that explodes on impact and burns at 3,000 degrees. These rounds will ignite almost any fuel they encounter, and if shot into a tree will set the tree on fire.

Good reason enough for ya pal .... huh!!!??

Dizasta bro keep in mind also that these 0.50 calibre AMRs aren't very stealthy. They are cumbersome in transportation and tend to kick up a mini-sandstorm when fired, giving away the position of the sniper. But inspite of that I do see the point which you are making. And anyways we already have those 0.50s (pics of the ANF with them) so what's the worry.

Hey Zarrar, good to hear from ya brotherman!

Indeed .50cals are very sensitive for strategic use, yet when in the hands of a tactically tranied pro-.50-sniper, the results would be devastating for the enemy!

[Dizasta]

The Navy SEALs just got a new weapon for the war on terror: a .50 caliber rifle light enough to carry, and easy enough to disassemble in three minutes.

By David Crane Editor - Defense Review

Looks like the U.S. Navy SEALs just got a brand new tool for the War on Terror. The boys at NSWC Crane (Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center, Crane, Indiana) have apparently been busy little beavers -- one of the projects they've been working on is a little .50 BMG (12.7x99mm) bad boy, the AS50 Semi-Automatic Rifle, and it's the result of NSWC Crane's teaming with Accuracy International (AI). The objective in building this rifle was simple: with the increasing number of missions U.S. SEALs are facing that require rapid engagement of multiple targets with explosive or incendiary ammunition at extended range, an ergonomically sound, light, durable, easily transportable semi-auto anti-materiel rifle was needed. And, oh yes, accurate as well, with a Minute of Angle (MOA) of at least 1.5 (which translates to being accurate within 1.5 inches per every 100 yards of distance). So here comes the AS50 semi-auto. How well does it fulfill the requirements listed above? Let's check it out.

Fast Assembly, Accurate Shooting

Defense Review recently had the chance to handle (and lift) this weapon at its SHOT Show 2005 debut, and was surprised at how light it felt, for a semi-auto .50 caliber rifle. At approximately 27 pounds empty/dry weight (according to the AI representative at their booth), the AI AS50 is relatively lightweight. One of the photos DefRev caught at SHOT shows ...... three targets, each shot at 100 meters (see photo at right). On all three targets, all the rounds are touching. The Accuracy International (AI) AS50 Semi-Auto Rifle was designed specifically for U.S. military Special Operations (SPECOPS) personnel/snipers. More specifically, it was designed for the U.S. Navy SEALs to provide them with anti-materiel/long-range interdiction capability, combined with fast follow-up shot capability, in a combat-rugged, lightweight weapons package that can be assembled and broken down quickly and easily, and maintained easily. Although the AS50 rifle was designed specifically for Naval SPECWAR end-users, DefenseReview has no doubt that other elements of SOCOM (USSOCOM) will be taking a good look at AI's latest .50 caliber creation. We wouldn't be surprised if U.S. NSWDG (U.S. Navy DevGroup) and certain U.S. Army Special Forces units out of Ft. Bragg, NC and Ft. Campbell, KY were already field testing the AS50 on enemy insurgents, in the Sandbox.

The following is from the AI AS50 Semi-Automatic Rifle brochure:

"For deployment and storage, the stock can be detached (and refitted) in seconds ... The entire system can be separated into its major components in under 3 minutes! All parts are fully interchangeable and the rifle can be field-serviced without so much as a screwdriver." Sounds pretty good. As if that's not enough, the AI rep at the SHOT Show booth told us that the AS50 semi-auto .50 BMG rifle creates less felt recoil than their AW50 bolt-action .50 BMG rifle. Back in July 2003, DefenseReview wrote a quick blurb on the AI AW50 (33-35 lbs empty, depending on reports) and AW50FT (a reported 28 lbs, approx.) .50 BMG bolt-action rifles.

Some more details on the AS50 semi-auto .50 Cal:

Rear grip: The rear grip is easily deployed, and also serves as a rear support leg. It also locks in folded position for transport or different shooting techniques.

Cocking Lever: To reduce the risk of snagging, the AS50 features an easily replaceable low-profile cocking lever.

Safety Lever: Easily accessible from the shooting position, the two-stage safety mechanism physically blocks the trigger.

Safety interlock: This feature prevents the rifle from being disassembled with the safety lever in the "locked" position.

Receiver: Machine from alloy steel, the rigid receiver body has an integral MIL-STD 1913 rail for mounting ancillary fire control devices.

Magazine capacity: 5 rounds for the AS50. The magazine is the detachable box type.

Bipod: The height-adjustable bipod rotates around the centerline of the barrel, allowing for a stable shooting position at all times.

Forward grip: Machined from high-grade aluminum, the grip protects the user from extreme heat, and features three integral MIL-STD 1913 rails - one on each side for accessories, and a sight rail extension for night sights and thermal imagining systems.

Muzzle brake: The muzzle brake has a low flash signature and is designed to minimize ground disturbance and felt recoil to allow rapid follow-up shots.

AI's focus is to combine match-grade accuracy with military-application reliability and ruggedness, and it looks like it just might have succeeded with the AS50. What is Minute of Angle, or MOA? It's the term used by shooters, and referenced by firearm sighting scopes, to describe the accuracy of the weapon. The typical equation is that one minute of angle equals about one inch at 100 yards -- in other words, given stable conditions, you will be accurate to within one inch of your target at 100 yards, two inches at 200 yards, and so on. Calculating minute of angle is based on the minutes of angle in a circle. Quick geometry lesson: A circle contains 360 degrees, 60 minutes are in each degree, so a circle has 21,600 total minutes. The circumference of a circle is 2 x PI x R (radius). So for any range R, one minute of angle equals 2 * 3.1416 * R divided by 21,600, which comes out to .000291 * R. Therefore, if the range R is 100 yards, a minute of angle would be .000291 * 100. You than multiply the answer by 36 (one yard=36 inches) to get 1.0476 inches, which is usually rounded off to 1 inch. Based on this, a minute of change on your rear sight will move the point of impact 1 inch at 100 yards. If you're shooting at something 1,000 yards away, a minute of angle would alter the aim by .000291 * 1000 * 36, or 10.476 inches. Obviously, the difference between the true minutes of angle and the rounded minutes of angle becomes greater as the range increases.

Military.com

[pilot_dude]

get a sniper rifle that can be fitted with a scilencer. stealthy and its gonna help the sniper stay alive and kill more!

-the enemy wont know where th shot came from and wont know where to fire back at...and then pakistan wins the war and frees kashmir, and pakistan rejoices with happiness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lein303]

AK-47 is half a century old? yet it is easily the best rifle on earth!

Related article on M82A1
link

As you can read for yourself, the M82A1s were the first of their kind (ie first of Barrets production). We've moved a long way from the 80s, when this weapon was developed. Our army has been using it since and now needs to introduce a more advance Rifle for our snipers. It is also imperative that we introduce a new doctrine of Snipers and their related targets, tasks, operational abilities and priorities. How they should be forged with holding formations of PA's battle groups, divisions & brigades. To spread them out throughout the PA's Corps formations.

We have Manpads, shoulder-fired SAMs and APCs with SAMs to deal with incoming enemy air-threat. However what would make any difference if the enemy formations carry the same defensive manpads. Snipers embeded in PA's holding formations, would be able to take out their Manpads, disable their SAM capable APCs or IVFs!!

This is just but one of the many things that we can and should introduce in PA's Sniper Doctrine. To open a whole new avenue for our Jawans.

lol, the .50 cal is the best thing for the job for that situation.

just because its a century old bullet and a 20 year old rifle, doesnt make it less effective. the US Marine core sniper devision awe at its abilities and would not go into battle with any other sniper!

5.56 rounds just doent cutr it against anything...they cant penetrate bullet proof vests from farely close up (as compared to M82s killing zone), never mind taking out a IFV or a APC with AA on top from more then a mile away lol...(neither can 7.62.....12.7 is 12.7 , enforcer i wouldnt mind, but given the track record of SA80........also enforcer needs to be matured yet.....M82 is a good mature solid reliable platform...

[lein303]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...=Future+Weapons

watch this

(M107 is the M82 Special Applications Scoped Rifle.....)

[faizan khaliq]

12.7 can hit accurately at the range of 2200 meters plus if fired on single shot and range is calculated accurately.With few amendments Pakistan can indigeniously develop own sniper rifle  from this 12.7
penetration can vary with the quality of explosive used in the bullet but buying anything from the market
i dont think Pakistan needs it.

[Pathfinder]

N.T.W. Multi Calibre 20 mm and 14,5 mm.

The N.T.W. range of rifles have been specifically developed to fulfill the role of anti-materiel applications such as neutralising high value targets at extended ranges. These include radar installations, communication equipment, parked aircrafts, and fuel storage facilities.

http://www.denel.co.za/Landsystems/LS_Ligh...ti-Materiel.pdf

india bought these rifles and i think we should also look at something similar. but keeping in mind this rifle is for special purposes.

i dont think Pakistan needs it.

untill Pakistan has developed them we will need to buy them and the need for something of this level is growing ever more. see the link lein 303 to see what i am jabbing on about.

[amaccpc]

N.T.W. Multi Calibre 20 mm and 14,5 mm.

The N.T.W. range of rifles have been specifically developed to fulfill the role of anti-materiel applications such as neutralising high value targets at extended ranges. These include radar installations, communication equipment, parked aircrafts, and fuel storage facilities.

http://www.denel.co.za/Landsystems/LS_Ligh...ti-Materiel.pdf

india bought these rifles and i think we should also look at something similar. but keeping in mind this rifle is for special purposes.
untill Pakistan has developed them we will need to buy them and the need for something of this level is growing ever more. see the link lein 303 to see what i am jabbing on about.

yes that what i was talking about i wnt that that at

[blain2]

N.T.W. Multi Calibre 20 mm and 14,5 mm.

The N.T.W. range of rifles have been specifically developed to fulfill the role of anti-materiel applications such as neutralising high value targets at extended ranges. These include radar installations, communication equipment, parked aircrafts, and fuel storage facilities.

http://www.denel.co.za/Landsystems/LS_Ligh...ti-Materiel.pdf

india bought these rifles and i think we should also look at something similar. but keeping in mind this rifle is for special purposes.
untill Pakistan has developed them we will need to buy them and the need for something of this level is growing ever more. see the link lein 303 to see what i am jabbing on about.

Indian deal is on the hold from what I have read.

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?artic...news__business/

Business
Denel denies breaching Indian law
Leon Engelbrecht | Johannesburg, South Africa
04 October 2005 11:35
Indian defence journal SP's Land Forces has defended the accuracy of a report that the country's defence ministry has initiated action to cancel all contracts with Denel.

The South African arms maker has denied the report and the Indian high commission in Pretoria has indicated the contracts may just have been suspended.

Denel initially refused to comment on the claims in the report, citing "commercial confidentiality". It has since denied breaching Indian law.

The Star reported deputy Indian high commissioner Banashri Harrison as saying it was not yet clear whether the contracts had been cancelled.

She confirmed that her government had earlier suspended all business with Denel pending the outcome of its investigation of the allegations against Denel.

Captain Samir Advani, military attaché at the Indian high commission in Pretoria, said the contract for anti-material rifles (AMRs) had been suspended while the Indian military investigated allegations that Denel failed to inform it that it had employed an agent to help secure the contract.

On Tuesday, Advani told SAFM there was no truth to the report.

But Land Forces' managing editor and publisher, Jayant Baranwal, said the information was drawn from a written answer by Indian Minister of Defence Shri Pranab Mukherjee to a question asked in the Indian Parliament, the Lok Sabha.

Mukherjee's answer, posted on the Indian ministry of defence's website on July 28, read: "Based on the information furnished by Messrs Denel, South Africa, there is prima facie evidence of violation of clauses relating to use of undue influence and agents/agency commission, as contained in the contracts of anti-material rifles signed in 2002.

"A decision has been taken to initiate action to cancel all contracts entered into with Messrs Denel. The contract signed on March 7 2005 for procurement of 400 AMR has been cancelled."

SP's Land Forces is one of a number of journals published by SP Guide Publications, a New Delhi-based media group.

Its contributors include a recently retired Indian army chief and at least six other retired generals and air marshals, as well as well-known South African defence commentator Helmoed-Romer Heitman.

Denel's AMR is essentially a large sniper rifle optimised for damaging or destroying high-value equipment such as radar installations, parked aircraft and communications equipment.

During peace-support operations, it can also be used to counter sporadic and indiscriminate mortar, rocket and sniper fire. -- Sapa

[Dizasta]

Actually the NWT 20cal isn't bad at all, flux it with our Mechanized Infantry, raising a special unit for it (MI). Plus Denel has good military ties with Pakistan, with the Dartar Missiles'n'all!! It wouldn't be a bad idea for PA to look into it, where the feasibility and credibility of the weapon is tested with Mechanized Infantry Special Units!!!!

[blain2]

BTW, here is a picture of Sig SG550 in use by Pakistani ATF:



The police operator in the rear with a Kevlar helmet has the SG550.