Heard that Brahmos has a variety of flght trajectories .Wanted to ask if brahmos is able to maintain supersonic speeds while seaskimming and ground hugging flights.............................
need no answers from bhindians.plz
0
A Question Abt Brahmos
Started by
Rise of the THUNDER
, Feb 27 2006 02:46 AM
67 replies to this topic
#2
Dizasta
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Posted 27 February 2006 - 05:52 PM
QUOTE(Rise of the THUNDER @ Feb 27 2006, 09:46 AM)
Heard that Brahmos has a variety of flght trajectories .Wanted to ask if brahmos is able to maintain supersonic speeds while seaskimming and ground hugging flights.............................
need no answers from bhindians.plz
need no answers from bhindians.plz
A correction there, that brahmos doesn't skim the surface!
........ when the first drop of a Munafiq's blood drops in the Kaa'bah ........
........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........
........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........
........ it shall be done, as it is said "Kun Faya Koon
By, Mujahid Hosein (son of Imran Hosein)
........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........
........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........
........ it shall be done, as it is said "Kun Faya Koon
By, Mujahid Hosein (son of Imran Hosein)
#3
crazyinsane105
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Posted 27 February 2006 - 06:12 PM
QUOTE(Rise of the THUNDER @ Feb 27 2006, 02:46 AM)
Heard that Brahmos has a variety of flght trajectories .Wanted to ask if brahmos is able to maintain supersonic speeds while seaskimming and ground hugging flights.............................
need no answers from bhindians.plz
need no answers from bhindians.plz
A supersonic missile can no way skim the surface: it would crash into something like a tree or a powerline.
#4
eddie
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 08:37 PM
QUOTE(Dizasta @ Feb 27 2006, 05:52 PM)
A correction there, that brahmos doesn't skim the surface!
Isn't that the point of a Cruise Missile?... but then again... i don't know much about this kind of stuff.
#5
Rise of the THUNDER
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Posted 01 March 2006 - 08:03 AM
now we all know tht brahmos can be launced in both trajectories. ballistic ad sea skimming, when it is launched from a ship...............
wht i really wanna know is tht can it actually skim the surface of the sea at super speeds and still hit the target accurately.....
coz if it can than its the most lethal ASHM in the world
another question
wht i really wanna know is tht can it actually skim the surface of the sea at super speeds and still hit the target accurately.....
coz if it can than its the most lethal ASHM in the world
another question
#6
Momin-e-mubtila
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Posted 13 March 2006 - 11:06 PM
To my limited understanding, Brahmos is a ballistic missile with a terminal sea skimming mode. Most of its trajectory is at 15,000 feet (meters?). Near the target it dips down to sea skimming mode while remaining supersonic. This is exactly the reason it can never be used over land. It can be used for attacking shore defences, however.
It is easily detectable by IR satellites since it comes so far out of the atmosphere. However, the reaction (travel) time is so short that it can be effective. A proper cruise missile is always sea skimming and very hard to detect, but takes longer to get to its target. Such are the trade-offs.
Overall, with a longer range for Babur, Brahmos can be easily kept at bay. This will be further enhanced once we have the submarine version of Babur (SLCM). For that we need submarines with larger launching tubes (VLS) than Agosta 90B. Hence, the new contract for submarines (French vs German).
It is easily detectable by IR satellites since it comes so far out of the atmosphere. However, the reaction (travel) time is so short that it can be effective. A proper cruise missile is always sea skimming and very hard to detect, but takes longer to get to its target. Such are the trade-offs.
Overall, with a longer range for Babur, Brahmos can be easily kept at bay. This will be further enhanced once we have the submarine version of Babur (SLCM). For that we need submarines with larger launching tubes (VLS) than Agosta 90B. Hence, the new contract for submarines (French vs German).
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ambersjoy
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 01:58 AM
QUOTE(Rise of the THUNDER @ Mar 1 2006, 08:33 PM)
now we all know tht brahmos can be launced in both trajectories. ballistic ad sea skimming, when it is launched from a ship...............
wht i really wanna know is tht can it actually skim the surface of the sea at super speeds and still hit the target accurately.....
coz if it can than its the most lethal ASHM in the world
another question
wht i really wanna know is tht can it actually skim the surface of the sea at super speeds and still hit the target accurately.....
coz if it can than its the most lethal ASHM in the world
another question
Brahmos has a high low flight profile ,which means it does sea skimming at the terminal stage of its flight.
QUOTE
Maximum range profile
290kms distance is achieved in lo/hi/lo flight profile. On launch it climbs to 14000-15000m for cruise phase. 40 km's away from the target it descends to sea skimming altitude. The closing speed is about 750m/sec which increases its kinetic energy to extreme heights. Impact at this speed and subsequent detonation of the war head ensures maximum damage. Brahmos KE lethality is nine times greater than conventional subsonic missile as kinetic energy being proportional to square of velocity.
290kms distance is achieved in lo/hi/lo flight profile. On launch it climbs to 14000-15000m for cruise phase. 40 km's away from the target it descends to sea skimming altitude. The closing speed is about 750m/sec which increases its kinetic energy to extreme heights. Impact at this speed and subsequent detonation of the war head ensures maximum damage. Brahmos KE lethality is nine times greater than conventional subsonic missile as kinetic energy being proportional to square of velocity.
source: www.india -defence.com
QUOTE(momin)
To my limited understanding, Brahmos is a ballistic missile with a terminal sea skimming mode. Most of its trajectory is at 15,000 feet (meters?). Near the target it dips down to sea skimming mode while remaining supersonic. This is exactly the reason it can never be used over land. It can be used for attacking shore defences, however.
It is easily detectable by IR satellites since it comes so far out of the atmosphere. However, the reaction (travel) time is so short that it can be effective. A proper cruise missile is always sea skimming and very hard to detect, but takes longer to get to its target. Such are the trade-offs.
Overall, with a longer range for Babur, Brahmos can be easily kept at bay. This will be further enhanced once we have the submarine version of Babur (SLCM). For that we need submarines with larger launching tubes (VLS) than Agosta 90B. Hence, the new contract for submarines (French vs German).
It is easily detectable by IR satellites since it comes so far out of the atmosphere. However, the reaction (travel) time is so short that it can be effective. A proper cruise missile is always sea skimming and very hard to detect, but takes longer to get to its target. Such are the trade-offs.
Overall, with a longer range for Babur, Brahmos can be easily kept at bay. This will be further enhanced once we have the submarine version of Babur (SLCM). For that we need submarines with larger launching tubes (VLS) than Agosta 90B. Hence, the new contract for submarines (French vs German).
dude do some research atleast before posting. the term "cruise" comes from the air breathing ramjet engines of the cruise missiles. it has nothing to do with sea-skimming or terrain hugging mode.Now the reason most cruise missiles around the world uses terrain hugging technology is to remain undetected on enemy`s radars.A supersonic cruise missile doesnt need that simply because it gives very little reaction time to the enemy..so even if it gets detected they wont be able to do much about it.
QUOTE
India expects to significantly enhance its long-range strike abilities with the BrahMos cruise missile, jointly developed by New Delhi and Moscow. The supersonic missile -- which derives its name from the Brahmaputra and Moscow rivers in both countries - has a range of almost 300 km and is designed for use with land, sea and aerial platforms. The Indian Air Force (IAF) is reportedly considering the possibility of fitting the BrahMos on its Su-30 combat jets. The production will commence by end of 2003 for induction in the year 2004.
The BrahMos, a derivative of the Yakhont, was developed by a joint venture between India's Defence Research and Development Organisation and Russia's NPO Mashinostroyenia. The BrahMos missile is a product of an Indo-Russian joint venture known by the same name. Registered in December 1995, the company was set up as a result of an inter-governmental agreement between Russia and India, eventually signed in February 1998, to design, develop, produce and market a supersonic cruise missile jointly.
India and Russia plan to begin the induction of the jointly-developed BrahMos supersonic cruise missile into their armed forces by the end of 2003. However, according to some reports military officials believe it is several years away from induction into the navy or the air force.
The BrahMos missile is a two-stage vehicle that has a solid propellant booster and a liquid (propellant) ram jet system.
The jointly developed Indo-Russian anti-ship cruise missile, which was successfully test-fired from Chandipur interim test range in Orissa, is a crucial step forward in India's defence efforts. This technological achievement places India among a small group of countries to acquire the capacity of producing cruise missiles. What, however, makes the jointly produced cruise missile distinguishable from others is that it travels at a supersonic speed i.e. more than twice the speed of sound. Almost all other contemporary anti-ship missiles fly at subsonic speed. Its other distinguishing feature is that the Indo-Russian cruise missile is a state-of-the-art product.
Its unmatchable speed is its high point, making it invincible. The supersonic speed imparts it a greater strike-power as well. Possessing stealth characteristics, the 6.9-meter cruise missile weighing three tons has a range of 280 km. Its another outstanding feature is that it is highly accurate and can be guided to its target mainly with the help of an onboard computer. This has been established by the test-flight. The computer and the guidance system have been designed by India whereas Russia has provided the propulsion system.
Test flights of the PJ-10 occurred on 12 June 2001, 28 April 2002, with a third test expected in June 2002. The test-firing of the cruise missile which took place in the middle of June 2001 was described as an unqualified success. The Brahmos recorded its performance as having met technical parameters, both in terms of the flight range and hitting accuracy. Defence Minister Jaswant Singh who was present at Chandipur along with Indian and Russian scientists and technologists described the launch as a "landmark in technology partnership".
The Chandipur launch was the first in a series of test-flights of the cruise missile planned to demonstrate the capabilities of the system. A series of other test-flights will take place before the missile is simultaneously inducted into the Indian and Russian arsenals. It will also be sold to third countries in due course of time.
One of its special features is that this essentially anti-ship missile can be launched from ground, ship, submarine or air. Defence analysts underline that the eventual addition of this strategic missile is a logical follow-up of the goal set as per the country 's nuclear philosophy. Stated in plain terms, it is essential for the fulfilment of India's minimum nuclear deterrent profile as outlined in the draft nuclear doctrine prepared by the Vajpayee Government. The acquisition of the cruise missile which can be tipped with a nuclear warhead has obvious implications for our nuclear weapons' delivery system.
In order to avoid controversy, both India and Russia have taken care to ensure that the production of the cruise missile did not violate obligations under the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) or any of the international agreements related to proliferation. That is why the missile range is well within the 300 km limit stipulated under the MTCR.
Both India and Russia welcomed the joint development of the supersonic cruise missile with great exuberance. Elated at the successful test flight from Chandipur, the state-owned Russian collaborating company, Mashinostroyenie, put the cruise missile on display at the Moscow annual air show. Mashinostroyenie designed the missile and its propulsion system, leaving the all-important software and the guidance system to its Indian counterpart— the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) of the Defence Ministry.
New Delhi described the missile as an "outstanding example of Indo-Russian joint endeavour". The President, Mr KR Narayanan and Prime Minister Mr Vajpayee termed it as a symbol of defence cooperation between the two countries.The development of the cruise missile takes their decades-old defence cooperation and the revived post-Cold War strategic partnership to a new high. It may be recalled that during the Russian President, Mr Vladimir Putin's visit to India in October 2000, a Joint Declaration of Strategic Partnership was issued. During the Defence Minister, Mr Jaswant Singh's visit to Moscow a few days before the Chandipur launch, this strategic relationship was further reinforced. On these two occasions, the two countries signed a series of agreements on the acquisition of sophisticated weapon system and for a joint production of some of them including missiles.
The newly developed cruise missile is more than a match to similar anti-ship missiles available with China. The latter has mounted Moskit anti-ship missiles on its recently acquired Soverameny-class warships. Beijing is also planning to mount its aerial version of the Moskit on its SU-27 planes. The Indian cruise missile with its supersonic speed will be able to check movements by the Chinese warships, especially in the Indian Ocean area. Besides, its extraordinary accuracy and speed increases the range of its targets.
The BrahMos, a derivative of the Yakhont, was developed by a joint venture between India's Defence Research and Development Organisation and Russia's NPO Mashinostroyenia. The BrahMos missile is a product of an Indo-Russian joint venture known by the same name. Registered in December 1995, the company was set up as a result of an inter-governmental agreement between Russia and India, eventually signed in February 1998, to design, develop, produce and market a supersonic cruise missile jointly.
India and Russia plan to begin the induction of the jointly-developed BrahMos supersonic cruise missile into their armed forces by the end of 2003. However, according to some reports military officials believe it is several years away from induction into the navy or the air force.
The BrahMos missile is a two-stage vehicle that has a solid propellant booster and a liquid (propellant) ram jet system.
The jointly developed Indo-Russian anti-ship cruise missile, which was successfully test-fired from Chandipur interim test range in Orissa, is a crucial step forward in India's defence efforts. This technological achievement places India among a small group of countries to acquire the capacity of producing cruise missiles. What, however, makes the jointly produced cruise missile distinguishable from others is that it travels at a supersonic speed i.e. more than twice the speed of sound. Almost all other contemporary anti-ship missiles fly at subsonic speed. Its other distinguishing feature is that the Indo-Russian cruise missile is a state-of-the-art product.
Its unmatchable speed is its high point, making it invincible. The supersonic speed imparts it a greater strike-power as well. Possessing stealth characteristics, the 6.9-meter cruise missile weighing three tons has a range of 280 km. Its another outstanding feature is that it is highly accurate and can be guided to its target mainly with the help of an onboard computer. This has been established by the test-flight. The computer and the guidance system have been designed by India whereas Russia has provided the propulsion system.
Test flights of the PJ-10 occurred on 12 June 2001, 28 April 2002, with a third test expected in June 2002. The test-firing of the cruise missile which took place in the middle of June 2001 was described as an unqualified success. The Brahmos recorded its performance as having met technical parameters, both in terms of the flight range and hitting accuracy. Defence Minister Jaswant Singh who was present at Chandipur along with Indian and Russian scientists and technologists described the launch as a "landmark in technology partnership".
The Chandipur launch was the first in a series of test-flights of the cruise missile planned to demonstrate the capabilities of the system. A series of other test-flights will take place before the missile is simultaneously inducted into the Indian and Russian arsenals. It will also be sold to third countries in due course of time.
One of its special features is that this essentially anti-ship missile can be launched from ground, ship, submarine or air. Defence analysts underline that the eventual addition of this strategic missile is a logical follow-up of the goal set as per the country 's nuclear philosophy. Stated in plain terms, it is essential for the fulfilment of India's minimum nuclear deterrent profile as outlined in the draft nuclear doctrine prepared by the Vajpayee Government. The acquisition of the cruise missile which can be tipped with a nuclear warhead has obvious implications for our nuclear weapons' delivery system.
In order to avoid controversy, both India and Russia have taken care to ensure that the production of the cruise missile did not violate obligations under the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) or any of the international agreements related to proliferation. That is why the missile range is well within the 300 km limit stipulated under the MTCR.
Both India and Russia welcomed the joint development of the supersonic cruise missile with great exuberance. Elated at the successful test flight from Chandipur, the state-owned Russian collaborating company, Mashinostroyenie, put the cruise missile on display at the Moscow annual air show. Mashinostroyenie designed the missile and its propulsion system, leaving the all-important software and the guidance system to its Indian counterpart— the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) of the Defence Ministry.
New Delhi described the missile as an "outstanding example of Indo-Russian joint endeavour". The President, Mr KR Narayanan and Prime Minister Mr Vajpayee termed it as a symbol of defence cooperation between the two countries.The development of the cruise missile takes their decades-old defence cooperation and the revived post-Cold War strategic partnership to a new high. It may be recalled that during the Russian President, Mr Vladimir Putin's visit to India in October 2000, a Joint Declaration of Strategic Partnership was issued. During the Defence Minister, Mr Jaswant Singh's visit to Moscow a few days before the Chandipur launch, this strategic relationship was further reinforced. On these two occasions, the two countries signed a series of agreements on the acquisition of sophisticated weapon system and for a joint production of some of them including missiles.
The newly developed cruise missile is more than a match to similar anti-ship missiles available with China. The latter has mounted Moskit anti-ship missiles on its recently acquired Soverameny-class warships. Beijing is also planning to mount its aerial version of the Moskit on its SU-27 planes. The Indian cruise missile with its supersonic speed will be able to check movements by the Chinese warships, especially in the Indian Ocean area. Besides, its extraordinary accuracy and speed increases the range of its targets.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/wor...dia/brahmos.htm
btw..this article is old.Brahmos is already on atleast 2 IN destroyers including INS Rajput..and they rest of the class will be evntually equipped with brahmos..also not to mention all future IN frigates and destroyers will have brahmos including those who are currently under construction.
#8
1Pakistani
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 06:48 AM
since the topic is abt Bhramos well my question or response is bit off topic but it is quite relvant
lots of ppl say if babur at its current stage but wit navel ability and bhramos are to be involved in war bhramos will win coz of its high speed most of the time this is said by india members...
i have simple sitution if some1 can help me understan how bhramos will win...
BABUR has range of 500km
bhramos has range of 300km
the difference 200 km
now in a war say a pakistani ship is heading toward indian ship and vis versa
now pakistan ship and indian ship detect each other and indian ship is trying to get into position to launch bhramos that mean it will have to come in range of three hundred km
pakistan indian have radars and air carft so detection is quite early
now
pakistani ship will launch say 2 babur at indian ship so if one is destroyed. other hits it this is done when the ship comes in range of say 450 kms
so babur is launched. since it is launched the pakistani ship head back since babur has its own radar and maybe with naval version mite get help from arial radars......
so the ship is heading toward pakistan while babur is heading toward indian ship and at the same time indian ship is moving toward babur since it cant be detected indian ship is unaware of this thus the distance between indian ship and baburs is decreasing ... and distance between indian ship and pakistan ship is either constant or +- at small rate
so indian ship cant launch bhramos and paksitani ship is able to launch babur so how can Bhramos win even if its a super sonic no chance....
im no good at technical stuff maybe u guys can help me how bhramos will win
lots of ppl say if babur at its current stage but wit navel ability and bhramos are to be involved in war bhramos will win coz of its high speed most of the time this is said by india members...
i have simple sitution if some1 can help me understan how bhramos will win...
BABUR has range of 500km
bhramos has range of 300km
the difference 200 km
now in a war say a pakistani ship is heading toward indian ship and vis versa
now pakistan ship and indian ship detect each other and indian ship is trying to get into position to launch bhramos that mean it will have to come in range of three hundred km
pakistan indian have radars and air carft so detection is quite early
now
pakistani ship will launch say 2 babur at indian ship so if one is destroyed. other hits it this is done when the ship comes in range of say 450 kms
so babur is launched. since it is launched the pakistani ship head back since babur has its own radar and maybe with naval version mite get help from arial radars......
so the ship is heading toward pakistan while babur is heading toward indian ship and at the same time indian ship is moving toward babur since it cant be detected indian ship is unaware of this thus the distance between indian ship and baburs is decreasing ... and distance between indian ship and pakistan ship is either constant or +- at small rate
so indian ship cant launch bhramos and paksitani ship is able to launch babur so how can Bhramos win even if its a super sonic no chance....
im no good at technical stuff maybe u guys can help me how bhramos will win
Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
#9
ambersjoy
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 08:00 AM
Firstly as we all know no naval version of babur has been tested so far.we dont even know it exists or not.secondly there isnt any ship currently in PN inventory that can house babur..even with the sprunace class DDG they will be getting rom USA it will be a tough job integrating babur with that ship.But brahmos is already in service with IN and IA..and in very near future with the IAF.So in a near future scenario babur is out of the picture.Also brahmos corporation is already working on a brahmos II which will have a speed of mach 8 and a range of about 800 to 1400 kms.
Now even if we imagine the scenario you mentioned.....you have to be aware of the fact almost all IN ships use ASW helis....so these helis will pick up babur from a fairly long distance and will inform the carrier which will be nearby in a war time ....then MIG-29s on CAP will go and intercept those missiles..and since babur is subsonic it wont be much of a prob to intercept them.other than that almost all IN ships are equipped with BARAK point missile defence system and kashtan CIWS....and these are two god damn good systems...it will be a real hard job for a subsonic missile to sneak in.
Now even if we imagine the scenario you mentioned.....you have to be aware of the fact almost all IN ships use ASW helis....so these helis will pick up babur from a fairly long distance and will inform the carrier which will be nearby in a war time ....then MIG-29s on CAP will go and intercept those missiles..and since babur is subsonic it wont be much of a prob to intercept them.other than that almost all IN ships are equipped with BARAK point missile defence system and kashtan CIWS....and these are two god damn good systems...it will be a real hard job for a subsonic missile to sneak in.
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mujahid fida
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 02:00 PM
QUOTE(ambersjoy @ Mar 14 2006, 08:00 AM)
Firstly as we all know no naval version of babur has been tested so far.we dont even know it exists or not.secondly there isnt any ship currently in PN inventory that can house babur..even with the sprunace class DDG they will be getting rom USA it will be a tough job integrating babur with that ship.But brahmos is already in service with IN and IA..and in very near future with the IAF.So in a near future scenario babur is out of the picture.Also brahmos corporation is already working on a brahmos II which will have a speed of mach 8 and a range of about 800 to 1400 kms.
Now even if we imagine the scenario you mentioned.....you have to be aware of the fact almost all IN ships use ASW helis....so these helis will pick up babur from a fairly long distance and will inform the carrier which will be nearby in a war time ....then MIG-29s on CAP will go and intercept those missiles..and since babur is subsonic it wont be much of a prob to intercept them.other than that almost all IN ships are equipped with BARAK point missile defence system and kashtan CIWS....and these are two god damn good systems...it will be a real hard job for a subsonic missile to sneak in.
Now even if we imagine the scenario you mentioned.....you have to be aware of the fact almost all IN ships use ASW helis....so these helis will pick up babur from a fairly long distance and will inform the carrier which will be nearby in a war time ....then MIG-29s on CAP will go and intercept those missiles..and since babur is subsonic it wont be much of a prob to intercept them.other than that almost all IN ships are equipped with BARAK point missile defence system and kashtan CIWS....and these are two god damn good systems...it will be a real hard job for a subsonic missile to sneak in.
As far as i knw brahmos cant exceed its 300km limit >>> otherwise it would violate international laws
Detecting a cruise missile with helis and then engaing it takes hell of time and and there is a good chance that the missile hits the target then being intercepted
#11
Dizasta
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 02:07 PM
QUOTE(ambersjoy @ Mar 14 2006, 03:00 PM)
Firstly as we all know no naval version of babur has been tested so far.we dont even know it exists or not.
I'm glad that you think like that! Thats the whole idea .... keep the enemy guessing!
........ when the first drop of a Munafiq's blood drops in the Kaa'bah ........
........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........
........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........
........ it shall be done, as it is said "Kun Faya Koon
By, Mujahid Hosein (son of Imran Hosein)
........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........
........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........
........ it shall be done, as it is said "Kun Faya Koon
By, Mujahid Hosein (son of Imran Hosein)
#12
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:06 PM
QUOTE(ambersjoy @ Mar 15 2006, 01:00 AM)
Firstly as we all know no naval version of babur has been tested so far.we dont even know it exists or not.secondly there isnt any ship currently in PN inventory that can house babur..even with the sprunace class DDG they will be getting rom USA it will be a tough job integrating babur with that ship.But brahmos is already in service with IN and IA..and in very near future with the IAF.So in a near future scenario babur is out of the picture.Also brahmos corporation is already working on a brahmos II which will have a speed of mach 8 and a range of about 800 to 1400 kms.
Now even if we imagine the scenario you mentioned.....you have to be aware of the fact almost all IN ships use ASW helis....so these helis will pick up babur from a fairly long distance and will inform the carrier which will be nearby in a war time ....then MIG-29s on CAP will go and intercept those missiles..and since babur is subsonic it wont be much of a prob to intercept them.other than that almost all IN ships are equipped with BARAK point missile defence system and kashtan CIWS....and these are two god damn good systems...it will be a real hard job for a subsonic missile to sneak in.
Now even if we imagine the scenario you mentioned.....you have to be aware of the fact almost all IN ships use ASW helis....so these helis will pick up babur from a fairly long distance and will inform the carrier which will be nearby in a war time ....then MIG-29s on CAP will go and intercept those missiles..and since babur is subsonic it wont be much of a prob to intercept them.other than that almost all IN ships are equipped with BARAK point missile defence system and kashtan CIWS....and these are two god damn good systems...it will be a real hard job for a subsonic missile to sneak in.
HAHAHAHAHAH man ur reply is sooo dodgy in one instance u tell me PAK has no navey based babur so we cant consider it yet in our argument and straight way u mention the development of Bhramos for land use and air use and used it in argument.... one pak is working on babur for naval use and extension of its range as babur came as surprise to u guys well new version will be surprise and especially the navey version........
b4 i post my logic of how babur can beat Bhramoos is said considered babur has navel capability and it is up against bhramos.. i didnt mentioned that it already existed but for sake of my argument i said it just imagine if it has the navel capability so we can discuss how babur can beat Bhramos........
wit its range babur can be launched earlier and thus the launching ship can get away from indian ship so it doesnt come in range of Bhramos so babur is launched and way b4 bhramos and i think most indian members forgot that babur flies at very low altitude so if u want to detect it its quite hard so it does pose threat to india....... wit BARAK u need to detect babur and since if im not wrong Barak has its own radar and babur flies below the range of that radar how will barak will be launched since its like firing arrow in dark and hoping it hits the target...
well only possible detection can be done by AWACS if im not wrong since it has 360 degree scanning ability.......
Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
#13
_killuminati_
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Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:51 PM
QUOTE(eddie @ Feb 28 2006, 08:37 PM)
Isn't that the point of a Cruise Missile?... but then again... i don't know much about this kind of stuff.
The point of a Cruise Missile is not to go into space, like Ballistic Missiles do.
QUOTE(ambersjoy @ Mar 14 2006, 08:00 AM)
Firstly as we all know no naval version of babur has been tested so far.we dont even know it exists or not.secondly there isnt any ship currently in PN inventory that can house babur..even with the sprunace class DDG they will be getting rom USA it will be a tough job integrating babur with that ship.But brahmos is already in service with IN and IA..and in very near future with the IAF.So in a near future scenario babur is out of the picture.Also brahmos corporation is already working on a brahmos II which will have a speed of mach 8 and a range of about 800 to 1400 kms.
Now even if we imagine the scenario you mentioned.....you have to be aware of the fact almost all IN ships use ASW helis....so these helis will pick up babur from a fairly long distance and will inform the carrier which will be nearby in a war time ....then MIG-29s on CAP will go and intercept those missiles..and since babur is subsonic it wont be much of a prob to intercept them.other than that almost all IN ships are equipped with BARAK point missile defence system and kashtan CIWS....and these are two god damn good systems...it will be a real hard job for a subsonic missile to sneak in.
Now even if we imagine the scenario you mentioned.....you have to be aware of the fact almost all IN ships use ASW helis....so these helis will pick up babur from a fairly long distance and will inform the carrier which will be nearby in a war time ....then MIG-29s on CAP will go and intercept those missiles..and since babur is subsonic it wont be much of a prob to intercept them.other than that almost all IN ships are equipped with BARAK point missile defence system and kashtan CIWS....and these are two god damn good systems...it will be a real hard job for a subsonic missile to sneak in.
Your post does not answer the question which was asked. Rather, I see it as you attempting to change the scenario mentioned, by adding such things as Mig-29s, Barak, Kashtan, etc, because of your inability to come up with a reasonable answer. The question was simple: How will Brahmos engage and reach a target which is not within range from where Brahmos is launched (because of the constant distance between the two ships)?
In my historical oracle
I blast metaphorical
editorials educated
in my territorial
get torn
heavily armed with seventy bombs
that'll blast divine like the heavenly song
Your men'll be gone
if they explore my deepest thoughts
I beat hearts in two then ask demons for chalk
Quran 43:79
I blast metaphorical
editorials educated
in my territorial
get torn
heavily armed with seventy bombs
that'll blast divine like the heavenly song
Your men'll be gone
if they explore my deepest thoughts
I beat hearts in two then ask demons for chalk
Quran 43:79
#14
1Pakistani
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 02:19 AM
QUOTE(_Saamp_ @ Mar 15 2006, 04:51 PM)
The point of a Cruise Missile is not to go into space, like Ballistic Missiles do.
Your post does not answer the question which was asked. Rather, I see it as you attempting to change the scenario mentioned, by adding such things as Mig-29s, Barak, Kashtan, etc, because of your inability to come up with a reasonable answer. The question was simple: How will Brahmos engage and reach a target which is not within range from where Brahmos is launched (because of the constant distance between the two ships)?
Your post does not answer the question which was asked. Rather, I see it as you attempting to change the scenario mentioned, by adding such things as Mig-29s, Barak, Kashtan, etc, because of your inability to come up with a reasonable answer. The question was simple: How will Brahmos engage and reach a target which is not within range from where Brahmos is launched (because of the constant distance between the two ships)?
well how hard was that to understand now i no y indian defence is lagging behind in self relience thanks for ur response in making it quite clear to indian who dont understand simple things
they bluff on abt how Bhramos can beat Babur but fail to prove it. the scenario i gave them is easy and clear to explain which missile will have lead over the other i was hoping to get a response from indians to prove it wrong so i guess i m rite in saying babur is better and more effective than indian bhramos... so for time being this will stand that BABUR IS BETTER UNLESS OTHERWISE PROVEN TO BE UNTRUE BY ANYONE..THANKYOU
Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
#15
ambersjoy
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 02:20 AM
QUOTE(1pakistani)
wit its range babur can be launched earlier and thus the launching ship can get away from indian ship so it doesnt come in range of Bhramos so babur is launched and way b4 bhramos and i think most indian members forgot that babur flies at very low altitude so if u want to detect it its quite hard so it does pose threat to india....... wit BARAK u need to detect babur and since if im not wrong Barak has its own radar and babur flies below the range of that radar how will barak will be launched since its like firing arrow in dark and hoping it hits the target...
well only possible detection can be done by AWACS if im not wrong since it has 360 degree scanning ability.......
well only possible detection can be done by AWACS if im not wrong since it has 360 degree scanning ability.......
All Ashms does sea skimming and naval babur wont be any different.BARAK was made specifically to deal with such threat..so it does have the ability to engage any Ashm around the world.
QUOTE
The Barak SAM is an integrated system intended to destroy incoming anti-ship missiles. The system comprises of the 10 km-range interceptor missile, an eight-tube IAI/Rafael-developed vertical-launch system, an EL/M-2221 STGR [Search, Track & Guidance/Gunnery Radar] and an Elbit fire-control system capable of automatic operation, with the ability to engage two targets simultaneously. It features very low level flight capability, high fire power and a large kill radius. The system is fully operational day & night, and even in adverse weather conditions. The missile is launched vertically with a full 360º azimuth coverage and features a Command to Line-Of-Sight (CLOS) narrow, pencil beam radar guidance system that assures extended ECCM [Electronic Counter Counter Measures] immunity to enemy EW [Electronic Warfare] countermeasures. The guidance system enables accurate interception of both high and low flying threats, even in severely unfavourable, cluttered or multi-path conditions. The missile's performance is further enhanced by the EL/M-2221 STGR, which has an extremely powerful signal and data processing capability that has been optimized for defence against all anti-ship threats, particularly sea-skimming missiles.
This missile system was short listed by the Indian Navy in 1994 [1] and the first batch of seven systems, approved by the CCS (Cabinet Committee on Security) in 1996, was followed by another approval in 2000 to install all seven systems onboard their respective platforms, initially announced as the P16/16A frigates and the aircraft carrier, INS Viraat. The acquisition was an evolution of an urgent Indian Navy requirement for a missile defence system, originally projected in 1988 to be DRDO's Trishul SAM. INS Brahmaputra was being built to accommodate the Trishul system, but even as the ship was being readied for launch, the latter had still not completed development. The ship eventually commissioned and was forced into a period which saw the vessel being equipped with no SAM system at all, until finally equipped with the Barak system a while later. At least 10 new Barak systems were to be purchased in follow-on batches.
The Barak incorporates a Rafael-developed advanced 22 kg blast fragmentation warhead that is optimized for penetration and detonation of enemy missiles. The warhead weight exceeds 22% of the 98 kg total missile weight - an unprecedented ratio in missile technology - giving it an effective large kill envelope, and the highest lethality against both soft and hard skin targets. The missile features a unique adaptive proximity fuse with a smart altimeter. This unprecedented sub-system allows unusually effective low level engagements. It incorporates a very short automatic engagement cycle that facilitates engagement of multiple threats, 'wave' and 'stream' attacks. It also has an alternative semi-auto mode that enables effective 'man-in-the-loop' operation. The missile's modular architecture facilitates integration with any existing or desired configuration of modern combat systems, including guns, leaving options for future growth and upgrading of the system. System configuration options include multiple Lines-of-Sight and a variable number of missiles. The missile is significantly more compact and lighter in weight than any other comparable existing system. Its space-saving design allows a wide range of installation options, suitable for existing and new vessels, from small strike craft to large ships. The Barak incorporates a maintenance-free, simple self-contained launcher with canisterized missiles based on the 'Wooden Round' concept. An extensive system BIT (Built-in-Test) assures high operational availability.
Initial test firings were carried out on 08 May 2003 and by 23 November 2003, press reports [2] indicated that two recent test firings of the Barak missile, off the coast of Mumbai, had resulted in failure of the first launch followed by a successful intercept. Nevertheless, a decision [3] to purchase the third batch of Barak systems for $100 million, was announced on 27 November 2003. Follow on press reports claimed on 17 December 2003, that a retrial would be conducted as the earlier tests had proven unsatisfactory. By 2005, final series of test firings had confirmed 100% hits on every type of anti-ship missile in the Indian Navy's inventory. INS Viraat was incorrectly assumed to be the first vessel to receive the system and misleading press reports would indicate that the ship received the Barak SAM as early as 1997. In reality, deck cutting for the VLS was completed only in early 2004 at CSL (Cochin Shipyard Ltd) while the ship was in refit. Final integration of the missile system among other weapon systems, commenced from August 2004 onwards. As of July 2005, confirmed recipients of the Barak system include two Type 15 Delhi Class destroyers, one (probably more) Type 16 Godavari Class frigate, three Type 16A Brahmaputra Class frigates, at least one Rajput (Kashin II) Class destroyer and the solitary aircraft carrier, INS Viraat.
On the Delhi Class, the two new EL/M-2221 STGRs replace the two MR-123-02 illuminators and perform as the fire control system for both the Barak SAM and the 30mm AK-630 CIWS, as does the single STGR on INS Viraat which replaces one Plessey Type 904 director. Aboard the latter, the two-screen console has been installed in the operations room. The entire Barak system is autonomous, automatically building an overall picture of the threat situation with automatic control of the engagement from detection to target destruction. Unlike other vessels, INS Viraat carries additional Barak rounds for reloads during operational deployment. One or more of the Rajput Class similarly have two of their aft MR-123-02s replaced by the STGR and their forward AK-630s replaced with the Barak, where the platform is elevated up to the height of the base of the STGR. On the P-16/16A frigates, the single EL/M-2221 STGR is installed directly above the bridge. This type has completely replaced the SA-N-4 Gecko with the Barak as the primary SAM system but carries only 24 missiles in 3 clusters of 8 VLS modules. IAI/Rafael have repeatedly offered to jointly develop a follow on Barak-2 [4] system, with a missile range of 70 km with Indian agencies but the actual status of the program is unknown. Live firings of the Barak-1 have been recorded on the Delhi Class destroyers, in particular, INS Mysore.
Table 1.1 Vessel Fitments
VESSEL NAME
VESSEL TYPE YEAR OF INSTALLATION VL CELL NOS. / STGR NOS.
INS Viraat Aircraft Carrier 2004 16 / 01
. . .
INS Ranvir and/or
INS Ranvijay Project 61 Destroyer < Oct 2004 32 / 02
. . .
INS Delhi Type 15 Destroyer - 32 / 02
. . .
INS Mysore Type 15 Destroyer - 32 / 02
. . .
INS Brahmaputra Type 16A Frigate - 24 / 01
. . .
INS Betwa Type 16A Frigate - 24 / 01
. . .
INS Beas Type 16A Frigate 2005 24 - 32 [5] / 01
. . .
INS Ganga Type 16 Frigate 2003 24 / 01
. . .
INS Godavari* Type 16 Frigate - 24 / 01
. . .
INS Gomati* Type 16 Frigate - 24 / 01
This missile system was short listed by the Indian Navy in 1994 [1] and the first batch of seven systems, approved by the CCS (Cabinet Committee on Security) in 1996, was followed by another approval in 2000 to install all seven systems onboard their respective platforms, initially announced as the P16/16A frigates and the aircraft carrier, INS Viraat. The acquisition was an evolution of an urgent Indian Navy requirement for a missile defence system, originally projected in 1988 to be DRDO's Trishul SAM. INS Brahmaputra was being built to accommodate the Trishul system, but even as the ship was being readied for launch, the latter had still not completed development. The ship eventually commissioned and was forced into a period which saw the vessel being equipped with no SAM system at all, until finally equipped with the Barak system a while later. At least 10 new Barak systems were to be purchased in follow-on batches.
The Barak incorporates a Rafael-developed advanced 22 kg blast fragmentation warhead that is optimized for penetration and detonation of enemy missiles. The warhead weight exceeds 22% of the 98 kg total missile weight - an unprecedented ratio in missile technology - giving it an effective large kill envelope, and the highest lethality against both soft and hard skin targets. The missile features a unique adaptive proximity fuse with a smart altimeter. This unprecedented sub-system allows unusually effective low level engagements. It incorporates a very short automatic engagement cycle that facilitates engagement of multiple threats, 'wave' and 'stream' attacks. It also has an alternative semi-auto mode that enables effective 'man-in-the-loop' operation. The missile's modular architecture facilitates integration with any existing or desired configuration of modern combat systems, including guns, leaving options for future growth and upgrading of the system. System configuration options include multiple Lines-of-Sight and a variable number of missiles. The missile is significantly more compact and lighter in weight than any other comparable existing system. Its space-saving design allows a wide range of installation options, suitable for existing and new vessels, from small strike craft to large ships. The Barak incorporates a maintenance-free, simple self-contained launcher with canisterized missiles based on the 'Wooden Round' concept. An extensive system BIT (Built-in-Test) assures high operational availability.
Initial test firings were carried out on 08 May 2003 and by 23 November 2003, press reports [2] indicated that two recent test firings of the Barak missile, off the coast of Mumbai, had resulted in failure of the first launch followed by a successful intercept. Nevertheless, a decision [3] to purchase the third batch of Barak systems for $100 million, was announced on 27 November 2003. Follow on press reports claimed on 17 December 2003, that a retrial would be conducted as the earlier tests had proven unsatisfactory. By 2005, final series of test firings had confirmed 100% hits on every type of anti-ship missile in the Indian Navy's inventory. INS Viraat was incorrectly assumed to be the first vessel to receive the system and misleading press reports would indicate that the ship received the Barak SAM as early as 1997. In reality, deck cutting for the VLS was completed only in early 2004 at CSL (Cochin Shipyard Ltd) while the ship was in refit. Final integration of the missile system among other weapon systems, commenced from August 2004 onwards. As of July 2005, confirmed recipients of the Barak system include two Type 15 Delhi Class destroyers, one (probably more) Type 16 Godavari Class frigate, three Type 16A Brahmaputra Class frigates, at least one Rajput (Kashin II) Class destroyer and the solitary aircraft carrier, INS Viraat.
On the Delhi Class, the two new EL/M-2221 STGRs replace the two MR-123-02 illuminators and perform as the fire control system for both the Barak SAM and the 30mm AK-630 CIWS, as does the single STGR on INS Viraat which replaces one Plessey Type 904 director. Aboard the latter, the two-screen console has been installed in the operations room. The entire Barak system is autonomous, automatically building an overall picture of the threat situation with automatic control of the engagement from detection to target destruction. Unlike other vessels, INS Viraat carries additional Barak rounds for reloads during operational deployment. One or more of the Rajput Class similarly have two of their aft MR-123-02s replaced by the STGR and their forward AK-630s replaced with the Barak, where the platform is elevated up to the height of the base of the STGR. On the P-16/16A frigates, the single EL/M-2221 STGR is installed directly above the bridge. This type has completely replaced the SA-N-4 Gecko with the Barak as the primary SAM system but carries only 24 missiles in 3 clusters of 8 VLS modules. IAI/Rafael have repeatedly offered to jointly develop a follow on Barak-2 [4] system, with a missile range of 70 km with Indian agencies but the actual status of the program is unknown. Live firings of the Barak-1 have been recorded on the Delhi Class destroyers, in particular, INS Mysore.
Table 1.1 Vessel Fitments
VESSEL NAME
VESSEL TYPE YEAR OF INSTALLATION VL CELL NOS. / STGR NOS.
INS Viraat Aircraft Carrier 2004 16 / 01
. . .
INS Ranvir and/or
INS Ranvijay Project 61 Destroyer < Oct 2004 32 / 02
. . .
INS Delhi Type 15 Destroyer - 32 / 02
. . .
INS Mysore Type 15 Destroyer - 32 / 02
. . .
INS Brahmaputra Type 16A Frigate - 24 / 01
. . .
INS Betwa Type 16A Frigate - 24 / 01
. . .
INS Beas Type 16A Frigate 2005 24 - 32 [5] / 01
. . .
INS Ganga Type 16 Frigate 2003 24 / 01
. . .
INS Godavari* Type 16 Frigate - 24 / 01
. . .
INS Gomati* Type 16 Frigate - 24 / 01
source:- www.bharat -rakshak.com
QUOTE(saamp)
Your post does not answer the question which was asked. Rather, I see it as you attempting to change the scenario mentioned, by adding such things as Mig-29s, Barak, Kashtan, etc, because of your inability to come up with a reasonable answer. The question was simple: How will Brahmos engage and reach a target which is not within range from where Brahmos is launched (because of the constant distance between the two ships)?
Well buddy i think i answered it quite well.....i didnt add things like MIG -29s ,barak ,kashtan etc....but THEY ARE ALREADY THERE IN REALITY.If a babur has to hit any IN ship then it has to deal with all those factors..and its quite a tough job.Now how will a brahmos going to hit a PN vessel.....simple....its pretty tough for a babur to damage IN ships due to barak and kashtan factor....so they will reach unharmed into such a position from where they can fire brahmos...now one shouldnt forget there will be air launched version of brahmos in service pretty soon...and so they can be launched by bears ,MKIs ,jaguars etc ..and also not to mention they are already working on a hypersonic version of brahmos with a longer range.
QUOTE(mujahid)
As far as i knw brahmos cant exceed its 300km limit >>> otherwise it would violate international laws
Detecting a cruise missile with helis and then engaing it takes hell of time and and there is a good chance that the missile hits the target then being intercepted
Detecting a cruise missile with helis and then engaing it takes hell of time and and there is a good chance that the missile hits the target then being intercepted
MTCR says no country can sell or co devolop a missile with a range longer than 300kms.Now the brahmos II isnt being co devoloped....its being made by indian scientists based on their experience on brahmos .
#16
1Pakistani
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 02:52 AM
sources provided: bharat -rakshak
man i dont trust this sources and as of the specs provided by this side can be considered dodgy can u provide us wit beta source in realtion to BARAK system....
i will raise no objections but source better than bharat -rakshak shud be given..
as i said its all abt argument and counter argument to prove wat will stand true but no bais sources will help in argument... i gave wat i thought was reasonable and quite understandable scanerio and i no in a normal war there are other factors that can make an impact.
second of all we dont no the exact features of navel version of babur and if it is sub sonice or supersonic its all our assumption.....
man i dont trust this sources and as of the specs provided by this side can be considered dodgy can u provide us wit beta source in realtion to BARAK system....
i will raise no objections but source better than bharat -rakshak shud be given..
as i said its all abt argument and counter argument to prove wat will stand true but no bais sources will help in argument... i gave wat i thought was reasonable and quite understandable scanerio and i no in a normal war there are other factors that can make an impact.
second of all we dont no the exact features of navel version of babur and if it is sub sonice or supersonic its all our assumption.....
Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
#17
Fireball
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 03:31 AM
QUOTE(1pakistani @ Mar 15 2006, 02:22 PM)
sources provided: bharat -rakshak
man i dont trust this sources and as of the specs provided by this side can be considered dodgy can u provide us wit beta source in realtion to BARAK system....
i will raise no objections but source better than bharat -rakshak shud be given..
as i said its all abt argument and counter argument to prove wat will stand true but no bais sources will help in argument... i gave wat i thought was reasonable and quite understandable scanerio and i no in a normal war there are other factors that can make an impact.
second of all we dont no the exact features of navel version of babur and if it is sub sonice or supersonic its all our assumption.....
man i dont trust this sources and as of the specs provided by this side can be considered dodgy can u provide us wit beta source in realtion to BARAK system....
i will raise no objections but source better than bharat -rakshak shud be given..
as i said its all abt argument and counter argument to prove wat will stand true but no bais sources will help in argument... i gave wat i thought was reasonable and quite understandable scanerio and i no in a normal war there are other factors that can make an impact.
second of all we dont no the exact features of navel version of babur and if it is sub sonice or supersonic its all our assumption.....
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/mis...arak/Barak.html
installed on israeli ship
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/nav...aar5/Saar5.html
Please rationally about what i will say. do not get flared up.
Now can u please tell me, have u ever seen or heard of tomahawk cruise misile hitting a ship. Let me tell u why. Because its a land attack cruise missile. And the same goes for Babur. Its a land attack cruise missile not anti ship missile. even if u will have submarine launched it will still be used for land attack purpose. it can be converted into anti-ship configuration but thats a thing to be seen.
India already have such cruise missiles (Klub N and Uran, with Klub N's submarine launched version already in service).
Now brahmos is just opposite to Babur. Its an ASCM. purely anti ship. So basically they r in totally different league. It is procured by india in responce to chinas aquisition of SS-N-22 Sunburn. Not to counter any of pakistani ships or land targates. but its not advertised so because india is having some chill time with china.
India is said to be developing land attack version of it but i think thats a hell of a job and it will take considerable time to achieve.
Now u know why Russion SS-N-22 Sunburn missiles are very very very hard to counter. because they r supersonic and does "S" manuver when approaching the targate becuase they know, no matter how stealthy ur missile is or how low it flies it will be detected this way or that way.
Same goes for Brahmos.
we are comparing bananas to mangos. nothing similer between them. neither navigation or their roles.
And one more thing, all ASCM (sub-sonic ones) usually goes super-sonic in their terminal stage.
#18
bomberstream
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 11:43 AM
QUOTE
[
India is said to be developing land attack version of it but i think thats a hell of a job and it will take considerable time to achieve.
India is said to be developing land attack version of it but i think thats a hell of a job and it will take considerable time to achieve.
India has develoed such a version.
http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/mar/09brahmos.htm
Link below has a pic of a land based lauch system, as well as a Surface target hit.Hit demos the kinetic enegy hit ability of the missile.
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brahmos50uz.jpg
Photo courtesy of orig poster, BRF.
#19
noxiouspython
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 11:56 AM
QUOTE(Dizasta @ Mar 14 2006, 02:07 PM)
I'm glad that you think like that! Thats the whole idea .... keep the enemy guessing!
Aoa
Yeah keep 'em guessing
w/salaam
In case I forgot here is it is... Asalaamualikum
"There is none worthy of worship but He, glorified be He: [Far is He] above that which they associate [with Him]" (Qur'an 9:31)
Not equal are the owners of the fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious. [Quran 59:20]
Allah knows best [who are] your enemies. Allah is sufficient as a Friend, and Allah is sufficient as a Helper. [4:45]
Fudayl ibn Iyaad said: "Verily, if an action was done sincerely for the sake of Allah but was not correct, it will not be accepted by Allah. And if the action was correct but not done sincerely it will not be accepted until the act is sincere and correct. For it to be sincere, it has to be done for the sake of Allah, and in order for it to be correct, it has to agree to the sunnah."
the Messenger of Allah pbuh says; “whoever does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not one of them.”
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"There is none worthy of worship but He, glorified be He: [Far is He] above that which they associate [with Him]" (Qur'an 9:31)
Not equal are the owners of the fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious. [Quran 59:20]
Allah knows best [who are] your enemies. Allah is sufficient as a Friend, and Allah is sufficient as a Helper. [4:45]
Fudayl ibn Iyaad said: "Verily, if an action was done sincerely for the sake of Allah but was not correct, it will not be accepted by Allah. And if the action was correct but not done sincerely it will not be accepted until the act is sincere and correct. For it to be sincere, it has to be done for the sake of Allah, and in order for it to be correct, it has to agree to the sunnah."
the Messenger of Allah pbuh says; “whoever does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not one of them.”
islamqa.com
#20
Fireball
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Posted 18 March 2006 - 12:28 AM
QUOTE(bomberstream @ Mar 15 2006, 11:13 PM)
India has develoed such a version.
http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/mar/09brahmos.htm
Link below has a pic of a land based lauch system, as well as a Surface target hit.Hit demos the kinetic enegy hit ability of the missile.
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brahmos50uz.jpg
Photo courtesy of orig poster, BRF.
http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/mar/09brahmos.htm
Link below has a pic of a land based lauch system, as well as a Surface target hit.Hit demos the kinetic enegy hit ability of the missile.
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brahmos50uz.jpg
Photo courtesy of orig poster, BRF.
this land based version is gud for only low clutter areas. like deserts and open areas. but for targating in urben areas its not fully optimized like babur.
Bhramos is still basically radar guided (and GPS). there are talks for adding optical trackers and some other navigation systems in it for land attack version. it will take time before land attack version fully matures.
#21
bomberstream
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Posted 18 March 2006 - 12:53 PM
QUOTE(Fireball @ Mar 18 2006, 12:28 AM)
this land based version is gud for only low clutter areas. like deserts and open areas. but for targating in urben areas its not fully optimized like babur.
Bhramos is still basically radar guided (and GPS). there are talks for adding optical trackers and some other navigation systems in it for land attack version. it will take time before land attack version fully matures.
Bhramos is still basically radar guided (and GPS). there are talks for adding optical trackers and some other navigation systems in it for land attack version. it will take time before land attack version fully matures.
The major areas of engagements between India and pak in past wars as well in future areas are arid, ie the deserts of the thar or the plains in India and in pakistan.
The areas are pre-dominantly rural and urban concentrations are not that dense.
The brahmos with its speed and profile will be difficult to counter.
The Babur However may prompt India to hasten its acquisition of missiles in the Su300 or Patriot class. Also mybe there may be more Phalcons, which have the capability of tracking cruise missiles.
#22
pegasus
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Posted 18 March 2006 - 01:23 PM
The Brahmos can indeed Sea Skim in a Lo-Lo-Lo Trajectory..
However the Lo-Lo-Lo Level Trajectory is only 180 Kms. (Does not apply to Air Launched Varients)..
The Army Varient will also get the terrain hugging capability. An Digital Image recognising Seeker is currently in trials. The Army wont Accept the Land Attack Varient of the brahmos without it.
The Airlaunched Varient of the Brahmos in Hi-Hi-Lo Trajectory is 350+Kms and in Hi-Hi-Hi Trajectory will be nearly 450 Kms.. (but with smaller payload)
Brahmos II and the SLCM Varient of the Brahmos is planned for 800-1000 Kms range . Capable of being fired from the Kilos as well as land based launchers ( AIr launched not known)..
Both Vayu , DefIndia and ForceIndia reported this.
However the Lo-Lo-Lo Level Trajectory is only 180 Kms. (Does not apply to Air Launched Varients)..
The Army Varient will also get the terrain hugging capability. An Digital Image recognising Seeker is currently in trials. The Army wont Accept the Land Attack Varient of the brahmos without it.
The Airlaunched Varient of the Brahmos in Hi-Hi-Lo Trajectory is 350+Kms and in Hi-Hi-Hi Trajectory will be nearly 450 Kms.. (but with smaller payload)
Brahmos II and the SLCM Varient of the Brahmos is planned for 800-1000 Kms range . Capable of being fired from the Kilos as well as land based launchers ( AIr launched not known)..
Both Vayu , DefIndia and ForceIndia reported this.
While Impart the Art of war We must not Glorify the Acts of war .
#23
Sachin
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Posted 19 March 2006 - 12:39 AM
well the land brahmos will have image-homing and terrain-skimming capability. by image homing i guess it can be DSMAC or Tercom guiding.
Three services to have BrahMos missiles
Arunkumar Bhatt
The Navy has started inducting the missile, the Army and the Air Force to follow suit
MUMBAI: While the Navy has started inducting multi-role, supersonic cruise missile, BrahMos, in a big way, the Army and the Air Force are poised to follow suit to be able to `destabilise' critical targets with pinpoint accuracy.
"Army is very keen to have the missile and we are working on the `land to land' version of it for the Army," said Dr. A. Sivathanu Pillai, chief controller of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
Dr. Pillai is also the managing director of BrahMos Aerospace, an Indo-Russian joint venture that designed and developed the world's only supersonic cruise missile and is now engaged in its production and marketing. He was here to ceremoniously receive the first airframe section of BrahMos from the Chairman of Godrej and Boyce Mfg. Company, J.N. Godrej. About 20 Indian and seven Russian companies are making critical systems for the missile.
He said that the missile was undergoing critical tests to meet the Army's specific requirements to be able to take on different types of targets. The army version would have features like position updating, terrain-hugging, homing image analysis and higher degree of data processing .
The Army is raising a special BrahMos Regiment of three batteries comprising a mobile launcher, mobile and fixed command centres besides other supporting facilities.
The Air Force has identified Su-30 Mk1 aircraft to be able to deliver air-launched version of the BrahMos. The air-launched version will be lighter in weight with its reduced booster. Dr. Pillai said that it would have the advantage of the speed of the platform itself. It would have fins for stability and a simplified nose.
He said that one BrahMos could be fitted under the belly of Su-30 without any structural modification. Two more could be added under the wings if they were upgraded. The Air Force has already accepted the feasibility report and the missile is being readied for test. The army version has already undergone two tests. Both the services would be able to induct the missile in a couple of years.
The BrahMos is a multiple-platform missile for the Navy. All new warships would be armed with the BrahMos and all big ships undergoing a refit would also get it, he said. The Navy would be able to fit even its land-based maritime reconnaissance aircraft, TU-142 for air to ship attacks while being on surveillance missions. The aircraft would be able to carry up to six BrahMos. The Navy has already fitted four two-tube missile launchers onboard INS Rajput, a Kashin class destroyer. All five warships of this class would get BrahMos.
News report here--
http://www.hindu.com/2006/02/17/sto...21718821400.htm
Three services to have BrahMos missiles
Arunkumar Bhatt
The Navy has started inducting the missile, the Army and the Air Force to follow suit
MUMBAI: While the Navy has started inducting multi-role, supersonic cruise missile, BrahMos, in a big way, the Army and the Air Force are poised to follow suit to be able to `destabilise' critical targets with pinpoint accuracy.
"Army is very keen to have the missile and we are working on the `land to land' version of it for the Army," said Dr. A. Sivathanu Pillai, chief controller of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
Dr. Pillai is also the managing director of BrahMos Aerospace, an Indo-Russian joint venture that designed and developed the world's only supersonic cruise missile and is now engaged in its production and marketing. He was here to ceremoniously receive the first airframe section of BrahMos from the Chairman of Godrej and Boyce Mfg. Company, J.N. Godrej. About 20 Indian and seven Russian companies are making critical systems for the missile.
He said that the missile was undergoing critical tests to meet the Army's specific requirements to be able to take on different types of targets. The army version would have features like position updating, terrain-hugging, homing image analysis and higher degree of data processing .
The Army is raising a special BrahMos Regiment of three batteries comprising a mobile launcher, mobile and fixed command centres besides other supporting facilities.
The Air Force has identified Su-30 Mk1 aircraft to be able to deliver air-launched version of the BrahMos. The air-launched version will be lighter in weight with its reduced booster. Dr. Pillai said that it would have the advantage of the speed of the platform itself. It would have fins for stability and a simplified nose.
He said that one BrahMos could be fitted under the belly of Su-30 without any structural modification. Two more could be added under the wings if they were upgraded. The Air Force has already accepted the feasibility report and the missile is being readied for test. The army version has already undergone two tests. Both the services would be able to induct the missile in a couple of years.
The BrahMos is a multiple-platform missile for the Navy. All new warships would be armed with the BrahMos and all big ships undergoing a refit would also get it, he said. The Navy would be able to fit even its land-based maritime reconnaissance aircraft, TU-142 for air to ship attacks while being on surveillance missions. The aircraft would be able to carry up to six BrahMos. The Navy has already fitted four two-tube missile launchers onboard INS Rajput, a Kashin class destroyer. All five warships of this class would get BrahMos.
News report here--
http://www.hindu.com/2006/02/17/sto...21718821400.htm
#24
saint
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Posted 19 March 2006 - 11:33 AM
QUOTE
India expects to significantly enhance its long-range strike abilities with the BrahMos cruise missile, jointly developed by New Delhi and Moscow. The supersonic missile -- which derives its name from the Brahmaputra and Moscow rivers in both countries - has a range of almost 300 km and is designed for use with land, sea and aerial platforms. The Indian Air Force (IAF) is reportedly considering the possibility of fitting the BrahMos on its Su-30 combat jets. The production will commence by end of 2003 for induction in the year 2004.
The BrahMos, a derivative of the Yakhont, was developed by a joint venture between India's Defence Research and Development Organisation and Russia's NPO Mashinostroyenia. The BrahMos missile is a product of an Indo-Russian joint venture known by the same name. Registered in December 1995, the company was set up as a result of an inter-governmental agreement between Russia and India, eventually signed in February 1998, to design, develop, produce and market a supersonic cruise missile jointly.
The BrahMos, a derivative of the Yakhont, was developed by a joint venture between India's Defence Research and Development Organisation and Russia's NPO Mashinostroyenia. The BrahMos missile is a product of an Indo-Russian joint venture known by the same name. Registered in December 1995, the company was set up as a result of an inter-governmental agreement between Russia and India, eventually signed in February 1998, to design, develop, produce and market a supersonic cruise missile jointly.
Brahmos is Exact copy of Yakhont. India is just getting tagged along. Im not sure of what Yakhont would of cost to licenced produced in india but brahmos is a $2 million missile it could be that india's so called joint development of brahmos is just another way to save dollars. india is aiming to produce 1000 missile by 2015.
Also the RUSSIANS would not have any great problems to deveolp and mount air launc brahmos on Su30. Russia already has a Air launch version of Yakhont.
Picture of Air launhed yakhont
http://www.airpower.at/news04/0706_flanker...563_yakhont.jpg
http://www.airforce.ru/photogallery/galler...-33_Yakhont.jpg
Picture of air launced Brahmos
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y108/sain...eet-BrahMos.jpg
Here is more on how so called deveolpment of Air launch brahmos in india
QUOTE
Russia flies in missile components for trials
After the successful trials of the ship-launched and land-to-land versions of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, India and Russia now aim to try out air-launched and submarine-launched variants of the missile.
A Russian airforce transport aircraft flew directly from a Russian airbase to the Bhubaneswar airport on Friday to unload "sensitive cargo" relating to the new variants of the BrahMos missile. The cargo carried in two trailers, which left for the Integrated Test Range at Chandipur accompanied by police escorts and a fire tender.
"We are now focussing on the air-launched version which would be integrated with Sukhoi MKI (Mark India) multi-role fighter aircraft and submarine-launched version," sources said.
http://hindustantimes.com/news/181_1526273,0008.htm
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Socrates (469–399 B.C.)
Nobody can do everything, but everybody can do something.
saint
The purpose of all war is peace.
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#25
daccan
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Posted 19 March 2006 - 11:18 PM
it seems like bhramos is nothing but a repainted opy of pj-10 or yakhnot.
well babur v/s bhramos. it is an interesing topic. american has a navalze version of tomohawk missile that attack ships at 1000 km or so. the babur missile carries 500kg of explosives while bharamos carries a little less than 300 kg. at sea skimming bharamos can travel to the max of 120 km not 180 km.
bharamos cannot be as deadly as tomohawk missile. simply the technology base. tomohawk uses three different kind of tracking. i believe babur uses the same pattern. pj-10 or bharamos uses just lock on flight trajectory. no question bharamos is a good missile but i believe it is a good anti ship missile that coulod be out gunned by longer range and more smart babur.
some body said that bharak missile can shoot babur down. dear friend any thing that flies could could be shot down. bharamos could be shot down also. it is not invencible.
well babur v/s bhramos. it is an interesing topic. american has a navalze version of tomohawk missile that attack ships at 1000 km or so. the babur missile carries 500kg of explosives while bharamos carries a little less than 300 kg. at sea skimming bharamos can travel to the max of 120 km not 180 km.
bharamos cannot be as deadly as tomohawk missile. simply the technology base. tomohawk uses three different kind of tracking. i believe babur uses the same pattern. pj-10 or bharamos uses just lock on flight trajectory. no question bharamos is a good missile but i believe it is a good anti ship missile that coulod be out gunned by longer range and more smart babur.
some body said that bharak missile can shoot babur down. dear friend any thing that flies could could be shot down. bharamos could be shot down also. it is not invencible.
#26
chandrahass
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Posted 20 March 2006 - 12:25 AM
QUOTE(daccan @ Mar 20 2006, 10:48 AM)
it seems like bhramos is nothing but a repainted opy of pj-10 or yakhnot.
well babur v/s bhramos. it is an interesing topic. american has a navalze version of tomohawk missile that attack ships at 1000 km or so. the babur missile carries 500kg of explosives while bharamos carries a little less than 300 kg. at sea skimming bharamos can travel to the max of 120 km not 180 km.
bharamos cannot be as deadly as tomohawk missile. simply the technology base. tomohawk uses three different kind of tracking. i believe babur uses the same pattern. pj-10 or bharamos uses just lock on flight trajectory. no question bharamos is a good missile but i believe it is a good anti ship missile that coulod be out gunned by longer range and more smart babur.
some body said that bharak missile can shoot babur down. dear friend any thing that flies could could be shot down. bharamos could be shot down also. it is not invencible.
well babur v/s bhramos. it is an interesing topic. american has a navalze version of tomohawk missile that attack ships at 1000 km or so. the babur missile carries 500kg of explosives while bharamos carries a little less than 300 kg. at sea skimming bharamos can travel to the max of 120 km not 180 km.
bharamos cannot be as deadly as tomohawk missile. simply the technology base. tomohawk uses three different kind of tracking. i believe babur uses the same pattern. pj-10 or bharamos uses just lock on flight trajectory. no question bharamos is a good missile but i believe it is a good anti ship missile that coulod be out gunned by longer range and more smart babur.
some body said that bharak missile can shoot babur down. dear friend any thing that flies could could be shot down. bharamos could be shot down also. it is not invencible.
Hi buddy , intersting analysis , But i will like to point a thing or two
>>
bharamos cannot be as deadly as tomohawk missile. simply the technology base. tomohawk uses three different kind of tracking. i believe babur uses the same pattern. pj-10 or bharamos uses just lock on flight trajectory
What made you think so ???
Baisc difference is the speed , Babur is a subsonic missile and Brahmos a supersonic . The difernce is 3-4 times in flight time, 2-3 times in flight range ,2-3 times in sight
Babur nodoubt is a having a longer range ,But at subsonic speed it gives the target more tome to deploy counter measures then brahmos
.One thing you must agree is that we don't know the actual guidance systems onboard the Babur at this point. It may fly on purely inertial navigation. It may or may not employ TERCOM and DSMAC as Pakistan does not have the technological base to develop them. Pakistani press reports claim that "cameras" adjust the height of Babur without having a clue that TERCOM is actually performed by radar instead.
The Brahmos has active radar guidance for the terminal stage that is so good that it could pickout the programmed land based target from a large set of identical targets built up around the area, against heavy ground clutter. It hit the target with pinpoint accuracy.
The Brahmos is semi autonomous. It can be launched at the edge of its flight envelope, scan for, and pick the ideal target to attack. The active radar seeker range is 3-4 times that of contemporary anti-ship missiles and also translates to a supersonic flight range of 3-4 times greater since the terminal phase is executed on selection of the target. Do note that this means a profile of Mach 3 at 10-15 feet ASL which means extreme pressure/form drag to be overcome for a distance of >3 times the terminal seeker ranges of other AsHMs.
Unlike the Babur, the speed and terminal flight profile of the Brahmos means that the latter will have a bleak possibility to shot down. Slow flying cruise missiles once spotted by radar can easily be shot down. In the case of ships, the Brahmos also performs high-G terminal maneuvers. The KE of the supersonic impact and 300 kg warhead will ensure that the target does not survive. The Babur is virtually useless against well protected warships and is only applicable towards large, stationary targets.
Effective navigation and the onboard terrain library means a huge amount of intelligence (airborne) and cartographic mapping which is beyond Pakistan's capability. It would also need an effective C4I infrastructure in place.
>> dear friend any thing that flies could could be shot down. bharamos could be shot down also. it is not invencible.
Well, rite , but that is the hard work ain't it ???
You will argue that Reaction time is the least important of issue , O.k. agree to that point
The issue is threat envelope detection, response envelope parameters, and volumetric efficiency (with guns) or kinetic kill issues (missiles)
and the most important being concurrent processing capability on the FCS.
#27
1Pakistani
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Posted 20 March 2006 - 05:22 AM
QUOTE(ambersjoy @ Mar 15 2006, 01:00 AM)
Firstly as we all know no naval version of babur has been tested so far.we dont even know it exists or not.secondly there isnt any ship currently in PN inventory that can house babur..even with the sprunace class DDG they will be getting rom USA it will be a tough job integrating babur with that ship.But brahmos is already in service with IN and IA..and in very near future with the IAF.So in a near future scenario babur is out of the picture.Also brahmos corporation is already working on a brahmos II which will have a speed of mach 8 and a range of about 800 to 1400 kms.
Now even if we imagine the scenario you mentioned.....you have to be aware of the fact almost all IN ships use ASW helis....so these helis will pick up babur from a fairly long distance and will inform the carrier which will be nearby in a war time ....then MIG-29s on CAP will go and intercept those missiles..and since babur is subsonic it wont be much of a prob to intercept them.other than that almost all IN ships are equipped with BARAK point missile defence system and kashtan CIWS....and these are two god damn good systems...it will be a real hard job for a subsonic missile to sneak in.
Now even if we imagine the scenario you mentioned.....you have to be aware of the fact almost all IN ships use ASW helis....so these helis will pick up babur from a fairly long distance and will inform the carrier which will be nearby in a war time ....then MIG-29s on CAP will go and intercept those missiles..and since babur is subsonic it wont be much of a prob to intercept them.other than that almost all IN ships are equipped with BARAK point missile defence system and kashtan CIWS....and these are two god damn good systems...it will be a real hard job for a subsonic missile to sneak in.
well mate NAVEL VERSION OF BABUR IS HERE AND IT MUCH IMPROVED
http://nation.com.pk/daily/mar-2006/20/index5.php
From DILSHAD AZEEM
ISLAMABAD - Pakistan is all set to test-fire “Babur” cruise missile with its improved version in a day or two after completion of its successful laboratory tests, The Nation has learnt here.
“All arrangements have been made to test-fire the cruise missile on Monday. It will have capability to hit pinpointed targets from surface, warship or submarines,” the sources maintained.
The “Babur” missile will have a range of nearly 300 miles to hit the target either from a fixed location or the submarines. “The laboratory tests showed cent per cent accuracy in the latest technology of the cruise missile,” the sources said.“The Babur missile is prepared mainly for the submarines but it can also be fired from the fighter jets and have capability to chase the target in case of movement,” they disclosed.
In response to a question, the sources revealed that the cruise missile would be undetectable from the radar system before or after its launching to hit the target. “This is the latest technology in the world.”Pakistan has already fired the first version of the “Babur” but its improvement is continuing as Islamabad continues to improve its defence capabilities.
NOW WATS UR SAY WHICH IS BETA
as far as the affical are concerned well i have highlight the part wat he said abt babur
cant be detected
and can chase the ship
now consider the sitution i gave b4 who will win
and once again looking at the above news and the sitution i described babur is an outrite winner and we can wait for the offical realise of specs when it is tested in day or 2 but i think indian navey now has a big prob and our SUBS have more teeths given to it...
its TOMMAH HAWK also moslty launched from sub coz all the clips of war launch ive seen are from sub as well
Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
#28
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Posted 20 March 2006 - 07:35 AM
QUOTE(1pakistani @ Mar 20 2006, 05:22 AM)
The Babur missile is prepared mainly for the submarines but it can also be fired from the fighter jets and have capability to chase the target in case of movement,” they disclosed.
see now any cruise missile like HN-1, Moskit, Kh-55, and Brahmos etc. can also do that because their terminal stage have active seeker. so this news means here is that Babar will now have active seeker.
QUOTE
In response to a question, the sources revealed that the cruise missile would be undetectable from the radar system before or after its launching to hit the target. “This is the latest technology in the world.”
now i dont think that is possible. you only tell whether subsonic cruise missiles can be detected and shot down more easily or supersonic cruise missile ?
Also chandrahass you forgot that brahmos uses Gps/Ins for guidance before terminal phase.
#29
Tajmahal
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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:11 AM
QUOTE(1pakistani @ Mar 14 2006, 05:48 PM)
since the topic is abt Bhramos well my question or response is bit off topic but it is quite relvant
lots of ppl say if babur at its current stage but wit navel ability and bhramos are to be involved in war bhramos will win coz of its high speed most of the time this is said by india members...
i have simple sitution if some1 can help me understan how bhramos will win...
BABUR has range of 500km
bhramos has range of 300km
the difference 200 km
now in a war say a pakistani ship is heading toward indian ship and vis versa
now pakistan ship and indian ship detect each other and indian ship is trying to get into position to launch bhramos that mean it will have to come in range of three hundred km
pakistan indian have radars and air carft so detection is quite early
now
pakistani ship will launch say 2 babur at indian ship so if one is destroyed. other hits it this is done when the ship comes in range of say 450 kms
so babur is launched. since it is launched the pakistani ship head back since babur has its own radar and maybe with naval version mite get help from arial radars......
so the ship is heading toward pakistan while babur is heading toward indian ship and at the same time indian ship is moving toward babur since it cant be detected indian ship is unaware of this thus the distance between indian ship and baburs is decreasing ... and distance between indian ship and pakistan ship is either constant or +- at small rate
so indian ship cant launch bhramos and paksitani ship is able to launch babur so how can Bhramos win even if its a super sonic no chance....
im no good at technical stuff maybe u guys can help me how bhramos will win
lots of ppl say if babur at its current stage but wit navel ability and bhramos are to be involved in war bhramos will win coz of its high speed most of the time this is said by india members...
i have simple sitution if some1 can help me understan how bhramos will win...
BABUR has range of 500km
bhramos has range of 300km
the difference 200 km
now in a war say a pakistani ship is heading toward indian ship and vis versa
now pakistan ship and indian ship detect each other and indian ship is trying to get into position to launch bhramos that mean it will have to come in range of three hundred km
pakistan indian have radars and air carft so detection is quite early
now
pakistani ship will launch say 2 babur at indian ship so if one is destroyed. other hits it this is done when the ship comes in range of say 450 kms
so babur is launched. since it is launched the pakistani ship head back since babur has its own radar and maybe with naval version mite get help from arial radars......
so the ship is heading toward pakistan while babur is heading toward indian ship and at the same time indian ship is moving toward babur since it cant be detected indian ship is unaware of this thus the distance between indian ship and baburs is decreasing ... and distance between indian ship and pakistan ship is either constant or +- at small rate
so indian ship cant launch bhramos and paksitani ship is able to launch babur so how can Bhramos win even if its a super sonic no chance....
im no good at technical stuff maybe u guys can help me how bhramos will win
Did you heard about barak-1 ati-cruise missile sysem which can destroy supersonic cruise missiles. If pakistan fires babur india can serve by baraks but what pakistn will do if india fire mach-2.8 brahmos missile. 80 km rnge new barak joint under develoment with israel.
brahmos devloped way back in 2002, inducted n nmber of shis, now in 2005 they sarteddeelopment of brahms-2 started development with mach-8 using scramjet engine.
#30
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Posted 20 March 2006 - 07:22 PM
QUOTE(Tajmahal @ Mar 21 2006, 02:11 AM)
Did you heard about barak-1 ati-cruise missile sysem which can destroy supersonic cruise missiles. If pakistan fires babur india can serve by baraks but what pakistn will do if india fire mach-2.8 brahmos missile. 80 km rnge new barak joint under develoment with israel.
brahmos devloped way back in 2002, inducted n nmber of shis, now in 2005 they sarteddeelopment of brahms-2 started development with mach-8 using scramjet engine.
brahmos devloped way back in 2002, inducted n nmber of shis, now in 2005 they sarteddeelopment of brahms-2 started development with mach-8 using scramjet engine.
i think u have mental disorder.....
basing it on the news just posted abt babur wat it say its UNDETECTABLE well wit previous tests it flied at very low attitude i think 100feets or so and now the news mentions undetectable than how the hell well barak shoot it down........... now its just abt afficals claim and our argument based on that and u me or no1 else really know the truth abt these missiles and spec.. so taking alll the information that is given to us by the officals and their claims.... bara is useless against this missile as it was mentioned in previous test that even patriot 3 can detect it...
Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
#31
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Posted 20 March 2006 - 07:35 PM
QUOTE(Tajmahal @ Mar 20 2006, 04:11 PM)
Did you heard about barak-1 ati-cruise missile sysem which can destroy supersonic cruise missiles. If pakistan fires babur india can serve by baraks but what pakistn will do if india fire mach-2.8 brahmos missile. 80 km rnge new barak joint under develoment with israel.
brahmos devloped way back in 2002, inducted n nmber of shis, now in 2005 they sarteddeelopment of brahms-2 started development with mach-8 using scramjet engine.
brahmos devloped way back in 2002, inducted n nmber of shis, now in 2005 they sarteddeelopment of brahms-2 started development with mach-8 using scramjet engine.
Love it when you gutter-ratindians blabber like that! Gives us Pakistanis the heart content that we have nothing to worry about you morons!
........ when the first drop of a Munafiq's blood drops in the Kaa'bah ........
........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........
........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........
........ it shall be done, as it is said "Kun Faya Koon
By, Mujahid Hosein (son of Imran Hosein)
........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........
........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........
........ it shall be done, as it is said "Kun Faya Koon
By, Mujahid Hosein (son of Imran Hosein)
#32
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Posted 20 March 2006 - 10:36 PM
QUOTE(Tajmahal @ Mar 20 2006, 11:11 AM)
Did you heard about barak-1 ati-cruise missile sysem which can destroy supersonic cruise missiles. If pakistan fires babur india can serve by baraks but what pakistn will do if india fire mach-2.8 brahmos missile. 80 km rnge new barak joint under develoment with israel.
brahmos devloped way back in 2002, inducted n nmber of shis, now in 2005 they sarteddeelopment of brahms-2 started development with mach-8 using scramjet engine.
brahmos devloped way back in 2002, inducted n nmber of shis, now in 2005 they sarteddeelopment of brahms-2 started development with mach-8 using scramjet engine.
ok....if that was the case then a lot of countries would have shown some interest in such system.
#33
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Posted 21 March 2006 - 01:32 AM
[10.8] P-100 ONIX / YAKHONT / BRAHMOS
* In the late 1970s, NPO Mash began work on a medium-range antiship cruise missile for smaller vessels. The specifications for the new weapon included both surface and submarine launch of highly compatible versions, over-the-horizon targeting, "fire and forget" operation, flexible flight trajectories, and incorporation of stealth features to help frustrate adversary defenses. The result was the "P-100 Onix", which was given the NATO codename of "SS-N-26", and featured the "3M55" missile.
Trials of the missile didn't start until 1987, and full development was unsurprisingly complicated by the collapse of the USSR: the weapon wasn't introduced to service until the late 1990s. The weapon was carried on ten SCORPION-class corvettes built for the Russian Navy, as well as on some of the 28 vessels of this class built for export, which used the "Yakhont", the export version of the Onix. It is also carried on the new multirole submarine, the SEVERODVINSK, at last notice still under construction; this vessel will carry 24 missiles. The Onix can be carried on truck launchers as well.
The Onix is a clean, straightforward design, a simple cylinder with a ramjet inlet and cone in the nose, clipped cruciform delta wings in midbody, and cruciform control fins on the tail. It is launched by an integral RATO booster in the ramjet exhaust. It carries a 300 kilogram (660 pound) SAP warhead, has a coating of radar-absorbent material to help it penetrate adversary defenses, and carries a radar warning system to tell it to initiate evasive action.
The guidance system of the Onix is sophisticated, able to direct it on a variety of trajectories. On a HI-LO trajectory, with the missile cruising to the target area at an altitude of about 14,000 meters (46,000 feet), the maximum range is about 300 kilometers (185 miles), while on a LO-LO trajectory the maximum range is about 120 kilometers (75 miles). Maximum speed is about Mach 2.6 at high altitude and about Mach 1.5 at low altitude.
Guidance during midcourse flight is by a programmable autopilot with INS. The missile carries an active / passive radar seeker. At a distance of about 80 kilometers (50 miles) from the target area, the active seeker is turned out. When the target is located, at a distance of about 25 kilometers (15.5 miles), the active mode is turned off and the missile proceeds at high speed toward the target using passive homing. The Onix can be launched in salvos, with one missile operating in active mode to cue the others operating at passive mode. The Onix flies at an altitude of about 15 meters (50 feet) in low altitude operation, dropping to about half that altitude during terminal attack phase.
ONIKS / YAKHONT (SS-N-26):
_____________________ _________________ _______________________
spec metric english
_____________________ _________________ _______________________
wingspan 1.4 meters 4 feet 7 inches
length 8.9 meters 29 feet 2 inches
body diameter 70 centimeters 28 inches
launch weight 3,000 kilograms 6,600 pounds
warhead weight 300 kilograms 660 pounds
speed Mach 2.5
range (HI-LO) 300 kilometers 155 MI / 135 NMI
range (LO-LO) 120 kilometers 155 MI / 135 NMI
_____________________ _________________ _______________________
The Russians have been collaborating with the Indian Defense Research & Development Organization since 1998 to build an improved export version, the "PJ-10 BrahMos", the name being a composite of the Brahmaputra and Moscow rivers. Initial launch was in 2001. The BrahMos is similar to the Onix / Yakhont externally, but has improved systems, and BrahMos can be fired from shipboard vertical-launch silos, not the angled launchers used for the Onix / Yakhont. Ground and air-launched versions of the BrahMos are in development. The BrahMos features a secondary ground-attack capability.
http://www.vectorsite.net/twbomba.html
* In the late 1970s, NPO Mash began work on a medium-range antiship cruise missile for smaller vessels. The specifications for the new weapon included both surface and submarine launch of highly compatible versions, over-the-horizon targeting, "fire and forget" operation, flexible flight trajectories, and incorporation of stealth features to help frustrate adversary defenses. The result was the "P-100 Onix", which was given the NATO codename of "SS-N-26", and featured the "3M55" missile.
Trials of the missile didn't start until 1987, and full development was unsurprisingly complicated by the collapse of the USSR: the weapon wasn't introduced to service until the late 1990s. The weapon was carried on ten SCORPION-class corvettes built for the Russian Navy, as well as on some of the 28 vessels of this class built for export, which used the "Yakhont", the export version of the Onix. It is also carried on the new multirole submarine, the SEVERODVINSK, at last notice still under construction; this vessel will carry 24 missiles. The Onix can be carried on truck launchers as well.
The Onix is a clean, straightforward design, a simple cylinder with a ramjet inlet and cone in the nose, clipped cruciform delta wings in midbody, and cruciform control fins on the tail. It is launched by an integral RATO booster in the ramjet exhaust. It carries a 300 kilogram (660 pound) SAP warhead, has a coating of radar-absorbent material to help it penetrate adversary defenses, and carries a radar warning system to tell it to initiate evasive action.
The guidance system of the Onix is sophisticated, able to direct it on a variety of trajectories. On a HI-LO trajectory, with the missile cruising to the target area at an altitude of about 14,000 meters (46,000 feet), the maximum range is about 300 kilometers (185 miles), while on a LO-LO trajectory the maximum range is about 120 kilometers (75 miles). Maximum speed is about Mach 2.6 at high altitude and about Mach 1.5 at low altitude.
Guidance during midcourse flight is by a programmable autopilot with INS. The missile carries an active / passive radar seeker. At a distance of about 80 kilometers (50 miles) from the target area, the active seeker is turned out. When the target is located, at a distance of about 25 kilometers (15.5 miles), the active mode is turned off and the missile proceeds at high speed toward the target using passive homing. The Onix can be launched in salvos, with one missile operating in active mode to cue the others operating at passive mode. The Onix flies at an altitude of about 15 meters (50 feet) in low altitude operation, dropping to about half that altitude during terminal attack phase.
ONIKS / YAKHONT (SS-N-26):
_____________________ _________________ _______________________
spec metric english
_____________________ _________________ _______________________
wingspan 1.4 meters 4 feet 7 inches
length 8.9 meters 29 feet 2 inches
body diameter 70 centimeters 28 inches
launch weight 3,000 kilograms 6,600 pounds
warhead weight 300 kilograms 660 pounds
speed Mach 2.5
range (HI-LO) 300 kilometers 155 MI / 135 NMI
range (LO-LO) 120 kilometers 155 MI / 135 NMI
_____________________ _________________ _______________________
The Russians have been collaborating with the Indian Defense Research & Development Organization since 1998 to build an improved export version, the "PJ-10 BrahMos", the name being a composite of the Brahmaputra and Moscow rivers. Initial launch was in 2001. The BrahMos is similar to the Onix / Yakhont externally, but has improved systems, and BrahMos can be fired from shipboard vertical-launch silos, not the angled launchers used for the Onix / Yakhont. Ground and air-launched versions of the BrahMos are in development. The BrahMos features a secondary ground-attack capability.
http://www.vectorsite.net/twbomba.html
"All wars of our age have become total wars... It would be dangerous to plan for less, and our plans should include the nuclear deterrent" Z.A.Bhutto
#34
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Posted 21 March 2006 - 04:05 PM
QUOTE(Tajmahal @ Mar 21 2006, 02:11 AM)
brahmos devloped way back in 2002, inducted n nmber of shis, now in 2005 they sarteddeelopment of brahms-2 started development with mach-8 using scramjet engine.
when will this be ready 2050 or need more time
yeh wake me up wen u guys finish dat
so far have u guys finished any decent hardware answer: nOOOOOOOOOOO
still under development...
Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
#35
Momin-e-mubtila
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Posted 21 March 2006 - 05:14 PM
QUOTE(ambersjoy @ Mar 14 2006, 01:58 AM)
dude do some research atleast before posting. the term "cruise" comes from the air breathing ramjet engines of the cruise missiles. it has nothing to do with sea-skimming or terrain hugging mode.Now the reason most cruise missiles around the world uses terrain hugging technology is to remain undetected on enemy`s radars.A supersonic cruise missile doesnt need that simply because it gives very little reaction time to the enemy..so even if it gets detected they wont be able to do much about it.
Dude, do some research before you post here. Ramjet engines are a very recent development while cruise missiles have been around since the '70s. Ramjets have made supersonic cruise missiles possible. Tomahawk uses a turbofan. TERCOM has been an integral part of cruise missiles. BrahMos does not do TERCOM and is only good over water.
#36
Tajmahal
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Posted 22 March 2006 - 06:37 AM
QUOTE(1pakistani @ Mar 22 2006, 03:05 AM)
when will this be ready 2050 or need more time
yeh wake me up wen u guys finish dat
so far have u guys finished any decent hardware answer: nOOOOOOOOOOO
still under development...
yeh wake me up wen u guys finish dat
so far have u guys finished any decent hardware answer: nOOOOOOOOOOO
still under development...
you have given your own answer current rahmos inducted in many IN ships, do you need any more example ? Pakistan developed its totally indigenous stealth/undetectale, which USA, Russia even China could not developed. Tomahawk and other new Russian cruise missile also not totally undetectale. Brahmos was not entirely indian it was developed with Russian based on Yakhont, which was in concept stage and later developed with India under 50:50 share company Brahmos Corp. At least 10 countries interested to uy Brahmos, according to news from 2004/5.
Here is a picture of DRDL (a DRDO lab) picture of hypersonic warplane engine test model from drdo............
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6748/hstdv0gw.jpg
It will be tested in 2007/8.
DRDL and NAL developed the scramjet and ground tests completed in 2002/3. ISRO completed their own project of scramjet in 2005 for Re-usable Launch vehicle (RLV).
#37
paki power
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Posted 22 March 2006 - 04:40 PM
QUOTE(Tajmahal @ Mar 22 2006, 06:37 AM)
you have given your own answer current rahmos inducted in many IN ships, do you need any more example ? Pakistan developed its totally indigenous stealth/undetectale, which USA, Russia even China could not developed. Tomahawk and other new Russian cruise missile also not totally undetectale. Brahmos was not entirely indian it was developed with Russian based on Yakhont, which was in concept stage and later developed with India under 50:50 share company Brahmos Corp. At least 10 countries interested to uy Brahmos, according to news from 2004/5.
Here is a picture of DRDL (a DRDO lab) picture of hypersonic warplane engine test model from drdo............
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6748/hstdv0gw.jpg
It will be tested in 2007/8.
DRDL and NAL developed the scramjet and ground tests completed in 2002/3. ISRO completed their own project of scramjet in 2005 for Re-usable Launch vehicle (RLV).
Here is a picture of DRDL (a DRDO lab) picture of hypersonic warplane engine test model from drdo............
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6748/hstdv0gw.jpg
It will be tested in 2007/8.
DRDL and NAL developed the scramjet and ground tests completed in 2002/3. ISRO completed their own project of scramjet in 2005 for Re-usable Launch vehicle (RLV).
huh, let ur crappy LCA and ARJUNK induct first then talk about ur bogus RLV and by the way ur country development industries takes too much time to complete projects like LCA and ARJUNK, LCA project started in 1983 and projected induction yeaar is 1990 and as for ARJUN project was started in 1976 doesn't finished yet and as for RLV u lived in ur dream, different US companies like boeing and lockheed martin still having difficulties for replacement of space shuttle, in think ur RLV project will be cmpleted after 2200
#38
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Posted 23 March 2006 - 05:02 AM
QUOTE(Tajmahal @ Mar 22 2006, 11:37 PM)
you have given your own answer current rahmos inducted in many IN ships, do you need any more example ? Pakistan developed its totally indigenous stealth/undetectale, which USA, Russia even China could not developed. Tomahawk and other new Russian cruise missile also not totally undetectale. Brahmos was not entirely indian it was developed with Russian based on Yakhont, which was in concept stage and later developed with India under 50:50 share company Brahmos Corp. At least 10 countries interested to uy Brahmos, according to news from 2004/5.
Here is a picture of DRDL (a DRDO lab) picture of hypersonic warplane engine test model from drdo............
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6748/hstdv0gw.jpg
It will be tested in 2007/8.
DRDL and NAL developed the scramjet and ground tests completed in 2002/3. ISRO completed their own project of scramjet in 2005 for Re-usable Launch vehicle (RLV).
Here is a picture of DRDL (a DRDO lab) picture of hypersonic warplane engine test model from drdo............
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6748/hstdv0gw.jpg
It will be tested in 2007/8.
DRDL and NAL developed the scramjet and ground tests completed in 2002/3. ISRO completed their own project of scramjet in 2005 for Re-usable Launch vehicle (RLV).
its 2006 and no news abt any interest party and at the same time pakistan has already look at joint production wit turkey for its cruse millie so now tell me who has more demand and interest for its missile.. plus pakistan will have export market in middle east and south east asia for this missile especially indonesia and malaysia....IM NOT SURE ABT ONE THING ARE WE ALLOWED TO EXPORT CURISE MISSILE TO OTHER NATIONS.or is there some international ban on export of such missile like there is for range etc.....
any how
on the part abt it being tested
read #### power post
LCA was suppose to be inducted in 1990 and now 2006 and still no induction its been 16 years and i think ill be right to assume at least 10 years for this test considering the faith of ARJUN
Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
#39
Pengwin
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Posted 23 March 2006 - 05:03 AM
QUOTE(Rise of the THUNDER @ Feb 27 2006, 02:46 AM)
Heard that Brahmos has a variety of flght trajectories .Wanted to ask if brahmos is able to maintain supersonic speeds while seaskimming and ground hugging flights.............................
need no answers from bhindians.plz
need no answers from bhindians.plz
nice question friend...Bramhos can supercruise while seaskimming and ground hugging flights cuz of its supersmart computer cheap developed by indian scientists.
#40
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Posted 23 March 2006 - 05:06 AM
QUOTE(Pengwin @ Mar 23 2006, 10:03 PM)
nice question friend...Bramhos can supercruise while seaskimming and ground hugging flights cuz of its supersmart computer cheap developed by indian scientists.
btw u being sarcastic or being srs if srs than link for this claim....
THANKS
Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
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