1821 replies to this topic

[leuitenentcolonel]

Aim-120C-5 AMRAAM are indeed coming and the funny thing is 250 out of the 500 Amraam have already been delivered although F-16's block52+ and F-16 A/B MLU are not here 1st 8 F-16block52+ are to be delivered this year.



Sniper pods, JDAM and PGM's plus bunker buster bombs are part of the package as well as guidence kits for converting the MK series of dumb bombs into PGM's.

BOB
why are people saying we are not getting AMRAAM, there were many sources claiming and confirming deliveries of 500 or 200 AMRAAM coming to Pakistan and that deliveries had started from 2009 and about MICA PAF was negotiating and with confirmed induction of SD10 i think PAF already has and producing H2,H4 also

[HKK]

Aim-120C-5 AMRAAM are indeed coming and the funny thing is 250 out of the 500 Amraam have already been delivered although F-16's block52+ and F-16 A/B MLU are not here 1st 8 F-16block52+ are to be delivered this year.



Sniper pods, JDAM and PGM's plus bunker buster bombs are part of the package as well as guidence kits for converting the MK series of dumb bombs into PGM's.

Dunno where you getting your info from but what I am saying is coming directly from someone who works on JF17 project. And I believe he knows a lot more then me and you. There are no amraam coming and we are looking for French options, which I beleive is right approach. Having american weapons on the platforms would be suicidal in future conflicts.

[M_ZEE32]

Aim-120C-5 AMRAAM are indeed coming and the funny thing is 250 out of the 500 Amraam have already been delivered although F-16's block52+ and F-16 A/B MLU are not here 1st 8 F-16block52+ are to be delivered this year.

Hey are dure sure about that AMRAAM thing ? That would be the best thing for PAF !

[M_ZEE32]

Dunno where you getting your info from but what I am saying is coming directly from someone who works on JF17 project. And I believe he knows a lot more then me and you. There are no amraam coming and we are looking for French options, which I beleive is right approach. Having american weapons on the platforms would be suicidal in future conflicts.

When you mention JF-17 , there is no chance of integration as the new stuff would be under strict supervision and those MICA stuff would be for thunder. Just a thought !

[Best of the Best]

BOB
why are people saying we are not getting AMRAAM, there were many sources claiming and confirming deliveries of 500 or 200 AMRAAM coming to Pakistan and that deliveries had started from 2009 and about MICA PAF was negotiating and with confirmed induction of SD10 i think PAF already has and producing H2,H4 also

This is a Forum people can speculate over these things one of the reasons people take such news with a pinch of salt is because Pakistani people don't trust Americans and don't find them reliable that's why they say such things

[Best of the Best]

Dunno where you getting your info from but what I am saying is coming directly from someone who works on JF17 project. And I believe he knows a lot more then me and you. There are no amraam coming and we are looking for French options, which I beleive is right approach. Having american weapons on the platforms would be suicidal in future conflicts.

I don't know where your info is coming from give me the number of your so called source and i will give you numbers of PAF media affairs in charge and a current AVM both family members both from PAF PM me with the number of your source kindly state name and rank.

AMRAAM are coming with F-16's and are only meant for the F-16 fleet of which will eventually total 78 aircraft in total 60 F-16A/B MLU and 18 block52+

French MICA + RC-400 radar Plus some other goodies were being offered by french for the later batches of the JF-17, China is also working to offer something people speculate its a domestic AESA varient, other Italian and British companies are also involved with AESA offer. SD-10 would be the basic BVR of JF-17.

[Best of the Best]

Hey are dure sure about that AMRAAM thing ? That would be the best thing for PAF !

Yes i am absolutely sure.

Kind regards,

BoB.

[M_ZEE32]

I don't know where your info is coming from give me the number of your so called source and i will give you numbers of PAF media affairs in charge and a current AVM both family members both from PAF PM me with the number of your source kindly state name and rank.

AMRAAM are coming with F-16's and are only meant for the F-16 fleet of which will eventually total 78 aircraft in total 60 F-16A/B MLU and 18 block52+

French MICA + RC-400 radar Plus some other goodies were being offered by french for the later batches of the JF-17, China is also working to offer something people speculate its a domestic AESA varient, other Italian and British companies are also involved with AESA offer. SD-10 would be the basic BVR of JF-17.

I was pressing on the same thing that the mica is meant to be for thunder and AMRAAM for F-16s. He might be confused in term for AMRAAMs for thunder and turning to mica !

[HKK]

I don't know where your info is coming from give me the number of your so called source and i will give you numbers of PAF media affairs in charge and a current AVM both family members both from PAF PM me with the number of your source kindly state name and rank.

AMRAAM are coming with F-16's and are only meant for the F-16 fleet of which will eventually total 78 aircraft in total 60 F-16A/B MLU and 18 block52+

French MICA + RC-400 radar Plus some other goodies were being offered by french for the later batches of the JF-17, China is also working to offer something people speculate its a domestic AESA varient, other Italian and British companies are also involved with AESA offer. SD-10 would be the basic BVR of JF-17.

No names please. All I can say he is my blood relative and someone who is getting his hands dirty on PAF projects of national importance. He has been to Changdu several times, infact working with Chinese in Kamra. Not some press officer or office bearer. F-16 are only coming with radar not amraam.

Think about it. Why would americans will give us their top of line amraam which are certainly going to be used against india? What you are saying is completly illogical and against ground realities. Also I would request to stop beleiving that american produce best stuff available. European/Chinese if not better are equalent to american counterparts.  Pakistan should only get the platform from america but the weapons should be european/chinese/Pakistani to be sure that they will work when needed.

[M_ZEE32]

Why aint you just willing to accept that they are coming rather 250 are here. BoB is providing the link then what ?

[Best of the Best]

No names please. All I can say he is my blood relative and someone who is getting his hands dirty on PAF projects of national importance. He has been to Changdu several times, infact working with Chinese in Kamra. Not some press officer or office bearer. F-16 are only coming with radar not amraam.

Think about it. Why would americans will give us their top of line amraam which are certainly going to be used against india? What you are saying is completly illogical and against ground realities. Also I would request to stop beleiving that american produce best stuff available. European/Chinese if not better are equalent to american counterparts.  Pakistan should only get the platform from america but the weapons should be european/chinese/Pakistani to be sure that they will work when needed.

your welcome to believe what you like MR.HKK i am not going in a fruitless argument with you the F-16's will be here in June, we will see then.

[Best of the Best]

Why aint you just willing to accept that they are coming rather 250 are here. BoB is providing the link then what ?

Mr.Zee you shouldn't play politics but will provide you the link.

Pakistan Chooses Raytheon's Proven Air Defense Missiles to Secure Borders

The country of Pakistan has signed a Letter of Offer and Acceptance for the procurement of 500 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) - generating the largest single international AMRAAM purchase -- and 200 AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles.

This is also the first AMRAAM missile procurement between Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN) and Pakistan. Delivery of the AMRAAM missiles will start in 2008 and continue through 2011.

The combined $284 million procurement augments Pakistan's established inventory and will provide the bulk of the air-to-air fire power of the Pakistan Air Force. AMRAAM is a joint U.S. Air Force and Navy program and sets the global beyond-visual-range standard. It incorporates the latest digital technology and microminiaturized solid-state electronics, making this remarkable weapon more reliable and maintainable, resulting in the highest dependability at the lowest cost of ownership.

Thirty-two countries have procured AMRAAM based on its unprecedented air combat flexibility. The AIM-9M Sidewinder missile is a combat-proven, all- aspect, infrared-guided, short-range air-to-air missile employed by more than 20 countries worldwide.

"This is the largest single purchase of AMRAAM missiles in the history of the AMRAAM international program," said Brock McCaman, vice president of Raytheon Missile Systems' Air-to-Air product line. "The combat-proven 'one-two punch' of Raytheon's AMRAAM/Sidewinder technology will give the Pakistan Air Force the necessary firepower to accomplish vital air defense missions."

Link

Kind regards,

BoB.

[HKK]

Mr.Zee you shouldn't play politics but will provide you the link.



Kind regards,

BoB.

There is no link in your post. let me verify the authenticity of the link.

All I can say, check with your mama, taya , chacha or whoever first. Dont beleive always whats in media, the reality is sometimes far from it.

[Best of the Best]

There is no link in your post. let me verify the authenticity of the link.

All I can say, check with your mama, taya , chacha or whoever first. Dont beleive always whats in media, the reality is sometimes far from it.

You can check the Link i added it, i have checked with serving members of my family 2 are squadron leaders serving in PAF one is AVM (Air vise marshal)  another one is a PAF media affairs officer but his rank is also Squadron leader. So my sources are concrete and i don't say stuff for the sake of simply talking you can check my link, you can write to DCA and check with them, and lastly i would advise you to have a chit chat with your relative again perhaps you didn't hear him properly last time. AMRAAM are coming 250 have already been delivered as per my knowledge and if you have problems believing that then Sir i can not help you, have a good day.

Kind regards,

BoB.

P.S dont always believe your relative maybe he him self isn't well informed,next time kindly check from other sources.

[airomerix]

No names please. All I can say he is my blood relative and someone who is getting his hands dirty on PAF projects of national importance. He has been to Changdu several times, infact working with Chinese in Kamra. Not some press officer or office bearer. F-16 are only coming with radar not amraam.

Think about it. Why would americans will give us their top of line amraam which are certainly going to be used against india? What you are saying is completly illogical and against ground realities. Also I would request to stop beleiving that american produce best stuff available. European/Chinese if not better are equalent to american counterparts.  Pakistan should only get the platform from america but the weapons should be european/chinese/Pakistani to be sure that they will work when needed.

Mr. HKK with due respect, we agree that AIM-120C-5 is a top of the line weapon but then what are u trying to prove? F-16 block 52s are a piece of junk? Get a life dude. Block 52s will remain in service till 2025 with USAF and beyond 2030 with the airforces of Greece, turkey, poland, Israel and singapore. And it proves that this aircraft is still and will remain the workhorse of all the mentioned airforces. And as for chinese weapons to be equated with americans, you are out of your mind!

On 1st january, PAF elite pilots from 9 and 11 squardon left for US (possibly Arizona or FW Texas) for undergoing the training course on Block 52s. This training course is 6 month long and somewhere near July or in June, PAF pilots will fly the Block 52s to Pakistan if relations remained smooth.

On last thing, no doubt china is the fasting emerging power, both ecnomic and military, but in technology, US has an edge over all the countries with regard to sophistication, reliablity and lethality.

Regards

P.s. Donnot talk about sorces, i bet i have alot many sorces then you do. And its obvious that the person whom u are referring as an attache to JF-17 will sing chinese praises and fill your ears with hatred for American weapons.

[HKK]

You can check the Link i added it, i have checked with serving members of my family 2 are squadron leaders serving in PAF one is AVM (Air vise marshal)  another one is a PAF media affairs officer but his rank is also Squadron leader. So my sources are concrete and i don't say stuff for the sake of simply talking you can check my link, you can write to DCA and check with them, and lastly i would advise you to have a chit chat with your relative again perhaps you didn't hear him properly last time. AMRAAM are coming 250 have already been delivered as per my knowledge and if you have problems believing that then Sir i can not help you, have a good day.

Kind regards,

BoB.

P.S dont always believe your relative maybe he him self isn't well informed,next time kindly check from other sources.

Sorry I fail to stop the link. Dont know how authentic it is though.

All I can say you believe whatever you want to.

[Best of the Best]

Sorry I fail to stop the link. Dont know how authentic it is though.

All I can say you believe whatever you want to.

http://www.deagel.com/news/Pakistan-Signs-...n000001321.aspx

Sir i will believe whatever i like and you believe whatever you like.

Ciao.

[HKK]

Mr. HKK with due respect, we agree that AIM-120C-5 is a top of the line weapon but then what are u trying to prove? F-16 block 52s are a piece of junk? Get a life dude. Block 52s will remain in service till 2025 with USAF and beyond 2030 with the airforces of Greece, turkey, poland, Israel and singapore. And it proves that this aircraft is still and will remain the workhorse of all the mentioned airforces. And as for chinese weapons to be equated with americans, you are out of your mind!

On 1st january, PAF elite pilots from 9 and 11 squardon left for US (possibly Arizona or FW Texas) for undergoing the training course on Block 52s. This training course is 6 month long and somewhere near July or in June, PAF pilots will fly the Block 52s to Pakistan if relations remained smooth.

On last thing, no doubt china is the fasting emerging power, both ecnomic and military, but in technology, US has an edge over all the countries with regard to sophistication, reliablity and lethality.

Regards

P.s. Donnot talk about sorces, i bet i have alot many sorces then you do. And its obvious that the person whom u are referring as an attache to JF-17 will sing chinese praises and fill your ears with hatred for American weapons.

LOL

Calm down mate. have your read my posts? if you have, you would have spared yourself sometime and have been more concise.

All I am saying that we are not getting amraams with the f-16s but yes the radars are there and we are looking for french options for BVR on F-16s. When did I say that F-16 is junk? It is just not coming with amraam, SIMPLE!! . Dont know what will happen in future but this is the current state of affairs.

This is the most stupid argument I have ever heard that american weapons are best out there. For argument sake lets assume that they are , would they be any good when push comes to shove and we found those weapons are useless against indians or worstcase scenario, against american aircrafts?

Secondly, if you are not aware, american along with israel are in deep cooperation with india. I really find hard to understand what america will achive by selling Pakistan amraam which perhaps in theory can blunt iaf edge over PAF.

[safdar]

people should also read this little analysis: (pdf doc)

Post Cold War Air to Air Missile evolution

no airforce puts absolute faith in BVRs. having them does give an edge over one that doesn't.

[HAROON RASOOL]

Didnt ask about the rest of stuff but as far as amraam are concerned they are not coming with our f-16s.

Ghaat ke wohi teen paat.

Quote of the week

HKK: AMRAAMs are not coming with F-16 Block 52 despite numerous publications
BOB: AMRAAMs are surely coming with F-16 Block 52, 250 out of 500 have been delivered.

who is right or wrong next Indo-Pak war will declare.

by the way there was another unslocved issue of AIM-7 Sparrow missile.

[safdar]

Sorry I fail to stop the link. Dont know how authentic it is though.

All I can say you believe whatever you want to.

Raytheon website it self.

                    Pakistan Chooses Raytheon's Proven Air Defense Missiles to Secure Borders

Jan. 15, 2007 PRNewswire-USNewswire The country of Pakistan has signed a Letter of Offer and Acceptance for the procurement of 500 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) - generating the largest single international AMRAAM purchase -- and 200 AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles.

This is also the first AMRAAM missile procurement between Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN) and Pakistan. Delivery of the AMRAAM missiles will start in 2008 and continue through 2011.

The combined $284 million procurement augments Pakistan's established inventory and will provide the bulk of the air-to-air fire power of the Pakistan Air Force. AMRAAM is a joint U.S. Air Force and Navy program and sets the global beyond-visual-range standard. It incorporates the latest digital technology and microminiaturized solid-state electronics, making this remarkable weapon more reliable and maintainable, resulting in the highest dependability at the lowest cost of ownership.

Thirty-two countries have procured AMRAAM based on its unprecedented air combat flexibility. The AIM-9M Sidewinder missile is a combat-proven, all- aspect, infrared-guided, short-range air-to-air missile employed by more than 20 countries worldwide.

"This is the largest single purchase of AMRAAM missiles in the history of the AMRAAM international program," said Brock McCaman, vice president of Raytheon Missile Systems' Air-to-Air product line. "The combat-proven 'one-two punch' of Raytheon's AMRAAM/Sidewinder technology will give the Pakistan Air Force the necessary firepower to accomplish vital air defense missions."

Raytheon Company, with 2005 sales of $21.9 billion, is an industry leader in defense and government electronics, space, information technology, technical services, and business and special mission aircraft. With headquarters in Waltham, Mass., Raytheon employs 80,000 people worldwide.

   Contact:
  John Patterson
  520.794.4559 SOURCE: Raytheon Company

   CONTACT:  John Patterson for Raytheon Company, +1-520-794-4559

   Web site:  http://www.raytheon.com/


the news is authentic. thou Im not sure if we have any missiles as of yet. there is no other news from raytheon that the missile deal is void or no longer applies.so, fair to assume that Pakistan does have  AMRAAMs.

[PAF2010]

LOL

Calm down mate. have your read my posts? if you have, you would have spared yourself sometime and have been more concise.

All I am saying that we are not getting amraams with the f-16s but yes the radars are there and we are looking for french options for BVR on F-16s. When did I say that F-16 is junk? It is just not coming with amraam, SIMPLE!! . Dont know what will happen in future but this is the current state of affairs.

Yes HKK is right !..........the F-16 Block 52s are not coming with AMRAAMs because they will carry 4 drop tanks for a long ferry flight from USA to Pakistan via Dahran/ Doha ................they will not come with AMRAAMs

AMRAAMs will come in specially packed containers flown in C-17 Globemasters or PAF C130Js !

Actually we are used to believing everything we hear............and let me tell u all those who believe that their relatives in PAF will always be telling them the truth
are also living in fool's paradise.

Remember PAF officers are under strict oath not to divulge information regarding national security such as deployments, weapons etc. They may provide general information that is already available on internet.

As for mating French BVRs onto F-16s..........the Americans will never allow the French to mess with their top line F-16s...........remember there is a strict copyright contract which is a vital part of any deal regarding American weapons.........

We could'nt upgrade our veteran F-16A/Bs by an inch despite having access to SAGEM, Chinese and Turkish aerospace technologies............infact at one point of time our Mirages were "technologically" superior to our F-16s..........until the F-16s started recieving MLUs

We can play with our JF-17s though by integrating whatever powerplant, avionics and weaponry as per PAF's requirement!

[M_ZEE32]

Mr.Zee you shouldn't play politics but will provide you the link.

Main ne kya kaha ?

[M_ZEE32]

Yes HKK is right !..........the F-16 Block 52s are not coming with AMRAAMs because they will carry 4 drop tanks for a long ferry flight from USA to Pakistan via Dahran/ Doha ................they will not come with AMRAAMs

AMRAAMs will come in specially packed containers flown in C-17 Globemasters or PAF C130Js !

Actually we are used to believing everything we hear............and let me tell u all those who believe that their relatives in PAF will always be telling them the truth
are also living in fool's paradise.

Remember PAF officers are under strict oath not to divulge information regarding national security such as deployments, weapons etc. They may provide general information that is already available on internet.

As for mating French BVRs onto F-16s..........the Americans will never allow the French to mess with their top line F-16s...........remember there is a strict copyright contract which is a vital part of any deal regarding American weapons.........

We could'nt upgrade our veteran F-16A/Bs by an inch despite having access to SAGEM, Chinese and Turkish aerospace technologies............infact at one point of time our Mirages were "technologically" superior to our F-16s..........until the F-16s started recieving MLUs

We can play with our JF-17s though by integrating whatever powerplant, avionics and weaponry as per PAF's requirement!

Bhai ne to sara phada he khatam kar diya !

[tank131]

HKK, sorry to inform you  but your source is dead wrong about AMRAAM.  The entire F-16 deal was centered not around the aircraft but around the AMRAAM and JDAM technology being brought for PAF.

[PAF2010]

Bhai ne to sara phada he khatam kar diya !

Just tried to bring an illogical discussion to its logical end!

[airomerix]

Yes HKK is right !..........the F-16 Block 52s are not coming with AMRAAMs because they will carry 4 drop tanks for a long ferry flight from USA to Pakistan via Dahran/ Doha ................they will not come with AMRAAMs

AMRAAMs will come in specially packed containers flown in C-17 Globemasters or PAF C130Js !

Actually we are used to believing everything we hear............and let me tell u all those who believe that their relatives in PAF will always be telling them the truth
are also living in fool's paradise.

Remember PAF officers are under strict oath not to divulge information regarding national security such as deployments, weapons etc. They may provide general information that is already available on internet.

As for mating French BVRs onto F-16s..........the Americans will never allow the French to mess with their top line F-16s...........remember there is a strict copyright contract which is a vital part of any deal regarding American weapons.........

We could'nt upgrade our veteran F-16A/Bs by an inch despite having access to SAGEM, Chinese and Turkish aerospace technologies............infact at one point of time our Mirages were "technologically" superior to our F-16s..........until the F-16s started recieving MLUs

We can play with our JF-17s though by integrating whatever powerplant, avionics and weaponry as per PAF's requirement!

Bhai jaan, Ab mein aap ko kya kahoun?

PAF donot has J model C-130s. Infact i hav a doubt about H model too. But they were ordered but iam not sure if they are delivered or not.
And how are u sure that Amraams will come after the delivery? Secondly its obvious that the fighters which are on ferry flight to their respective countries are not allowed to carry weapons especially over international waters and airspace.
The whole arguement is about the delivery of AMRAAMs, the deliveries were started in 2008. Inspite all the  multiple sorces provided, some memebers are claiming it to be fake only to prove their thought and analysis.

[airomerix]

LOL

Calm down mate. have your read my posts? if you have, you would have spared yourself sometime and have been more concise.

All I am saying that we are not getting amraams with the f-16s but yes the radars are there and we are looking for french options for BVR on F-16s. When did I say that F-16 is junk? It is just not coming with amraam, SIMPLE!! . Dont know what will happen in future but this is the current state of affairs.

This is the most stupid argument I have ever heard that american weapons are best out there. For argument sake lets assume that they are , would they be any good when push comes to shove and we found those weapons are useless against indians or worstcase scenario, against american aircrafts?

Secondly, if you are not aware, american along with israel are in deep cooperation with india. I really find hard to understand what america will achive by selling Pakistan amraam which perhaps in theory can blunt iaf edge over PAF.

Whats the use of those radars when we are not getting the weapons?
Secondly, American weapons are the best out there that is why even after 30 years IAF fears our unupgraded vipers the most and these vipers are still our most lethal punch.
Secondly, the european counterparts of block 52s [ie. typhoon, rafale, gripen] are hell expensive platforms and will require major infrastructural alterations. That is why PAF has chosen the block 52 cuz its RELIABLE, Cheapest in its class and capable of sustaining threats from IAFs mighty fleet of flankers.

[HKK]

Whats the use of those radars when we are not getting the weapons?
Secondly, American weapons are the best out there that is why even after 30 years IAF fears our unupgraded vipers the most and these vipers are still our most lethal punch.
Secondly, the european counterparts of block 52s [ie. typhoon, rafale, gripen] are hell expensive platforms and will require major infrastructural alterations. That is why PAF has chosen the block 52 cuz its RELIABLE, Cheapest in its class and capable of sustaining threats from IAFs mighty fleet of flankers.

So what you are saying that those radars will only work with amraam not with any other bvr weapon around?

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t...light-mica.html

Being brave is good, but to belittle our enemy is stupid.

During Kargil war, one of the main issue PAF facing was the iaf BVR capability.

You are comparing block52 with the like of typhoon and Rafale, which is quite far fetched. Those european birds are in different league. Perhaps block 60 may be comparible. Just a food for thought:

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums...2874/page4.aspx

We choosed block52 because PAF knows the aircraft inside out. It may be comparable to the Su-30 but will it give PAF complete air superiority against iaf. Simple answer is no. Likes of Typhoon and Rafale would have. Its a cheap option for us which I dont have any issue with however the logic of american weapons on it is plain stupid. UAE is considering MICA for its desert falcon for the same reason keeping in mind the close relationship between america and Israel.

[tank131]

F-16block 52 will not give PAF superiority over India, nor is it equal to Rafale, Typhoon, MKI...however, armed with AMRAAM (which is part of the deal, along with JDAM) and backed by Erieye, it represents a very dangerous threat to the MKI and any aircraft short of the raptor and JSF.  Granted Rafale and Typhoon would in all likelyhood still dominate it but it will still pose a significant threat.  However the point of the blk 52 was not to dominate the skies, but rather to present a very credible deterence from IAF misadventures...making it far too costly for India to attempt anything such as surgical strikes, because the MKI will NOT be able to provide complete protection to strike packages vis a vis PAF.  Even the JF-17 which is not even on the level of MKI and block 52 will present a credible threat, especially when backed by erieye and ZDK03 (or what ever the Chinese AWAC is called).

The real aircraft that PAF will use to dominate the sky is J-10B.  It is said to be equiped with IRST and X-band radar (1st from China) and in all likelyhood, PAF will try to get western avionics as an option as well.  It will give more than a match for MKI and should be able to go toe to toe with the MMRCA.

BTW, during the Post Mumbai escalations, the non-bvr equiped F-16 from PAF had achieved missile lock on an MKI approaching/intruding on the border (from a family friend who is close to high PAF sources).  He stated that the flight recordings were shown to Sect. Gates and was stated by Kiyani that the next time they will bring it down. Believe the story or not, the point is that the MKI is not the god of south asian skies everyone makes it out to be.  If it were, IAF would not be antsy regarding a few piddly F-16s and J-10s, nor would the make a stin about engines for JF-17.

[mean_bird]

Mr.Zee you shouldn't play politics but will provide you the link.

This is also the first AMRAAM missile procurement between Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN) and Pakistan. Delivery of the AMRAAM missiles will start in 2008 and continue through 2011.

BoB.

The whole arguement is about the delivery of AMRAAMs, the deliveries were started in 2008. Inspite all the  multiple sorces provided, some memebers are claiming it to be fake only to prove their thought and analysis.

Hi everyone,

been around on other defence sites but new to this forum. Would just like to say that, although there is no known problem as such about delivery of AMRAAM, but they haven't been delivered in 2008. Deliveries will start with the first batch of F-16 blk 52 from June 2010 onwards. That news like you posted just mentions that deliveries will start from 2008 not deliveries have started, and neither is it official.

If you have followed the US official foreign office news on this, it clearly states that deliveries of the ammunition would from available from June 2010, IF Pakistan fulfills all the blah blah criteria (which is just the official way to keep your customer guessing). The exact wordings are

It is important to note that none of the aircraft will be delivered to Pakistan until the Administration ensures that Pakistan is in compliance with the LOA security notes, and the Administration has so advised Congress.

AFAIK, things are still on schedule and there is no indication of any problem of any sort. The AIM120C-5 ain't the best U.S is exporting I don't see any reason why this missile will raise any eyebrows.

The whole schedule, which I guess most people know already is as follows:

PAF will start receiving the blk 52 F-16 from June, but not all 14 of them will arrive in June. Here's the schedule of the F-16s blk 52+ that PAF had purchased:

• four aircraft will be ready in June 2010;
• four aircraft in August 2010;
• five aircraft in october 2010; four aircraft in Dec 2010;
• and, one aircraft in December 2011.

As far as the "goodies" are concerned, we have

• 500 AIM-120C-5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM);
• 750 Mark-84 2000 lb General Purpose bombs;
• 700 BLU-109 2000 lb Penetrator bombs;
• 500 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) tail kits;
• 1600 Enhanced Guided Bomb Unit 3 (EGBU) kits;
• and assorted bomb fuzes and support equipment.

These weapons will be available for delivery to Pakistan beginning in June 2010. Just as a side note, the 500 AIM 120C-5 is the largest single purchase of AMRAAMS by any foreign country.

Regards,
MB

[PAF2010]

Bhai jaan, Ab mein aap ko kya kahoun?

PAF donot has J model C-130s. Infact i hav a doubt about H model too. But they were ordered but iam not sure if they are delivered or not.
And how are u sure that Amraams will come after the delivery? Secondly its obvious that the fighters which are on ferry flight to their respective countries are not allowed to carry weapons especially over international waters and airspace.
The whole arguement is about the delivery of AMRAAMs, the deliveries were started in 2008. Inspite all the  multiple sorces provided, some memebers are claiming it to be fake only to prove their thought and analysis.

Thanks for the correction ! PAF has C130Es it was a typo error!

Nobody in this forum is sure about anything about PAF's operational capabilities!

I was actually trying to dispell the opinion given by some so called "informed" members that AMRAAMS are not being delivered to PAF. I say PAF will reject its F-16 batch if AMRAAMs are not delivered.

It has happened before in 1982 when PAF rejected its first batch of F-16A/Bs (NATO aircraft)  which were not fitted with ALR-69 RWRs . The Americans had fitted the ALR-46 which was not the latest RWR. The Americans were forced to release the ALR-69 equipped for F-16s.
Source "F-16 Fighting Falcon" ..................a book published in 1983.......I have  a copy of it

[airomerix]

Thanks for the correction ! PAF has C130Es it was a typo error!

Nobody in this forum is sure about anything about PAF's operational capabilities!

I was actually trying to dispell the opinion given by some so called "informed" members that AMRAAMS are not being delivered to PAF. I say PAF will reject its F-16 batch if AMRAAMs are not delivered.

It has happened before in 1982 when PAF rejected its first batch of F-16A/Bs (NATO aircraft)  which were not fitted with ALR-69 RWRs . The Americans had fitted the ALR-46 which was not the latest RWR. The Americans were forced to release the ALR-69 equipped for F-16s.
Source "F-16 Fighting Falcon" ..................a book published in 1983.......I have  a copy of it

Wow interesting story! Can u post it here please if its alright?

[airomerix]

So what you are saying that those radars will only work with amraam not with any other bvr weapon around?

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t...light-mica.html

Being brave is good, but to belittle our enemy is stupid.

During Kargil war, one of the main issue PAF facing was the iaf BVR capability.

You are comparing block52 with the like of typhoon and Rafale, which is quite far fetched. Those european birds are in different league. Perhaps block 60 may be comparible. Just a food for thought:

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums...2874/page4.aspx

We choosed block52 because PAF knows the aircraft inside out. It may be comparable to the Su-30 but will it give PAF complete air superiority against iaf. Simple answer is no. Likes of Typhoon and Rafale would have. Its a cheap option for us which I dont have any issue with however the logic of american weapons on it is plain stupid. UAE is considering MICA for its desert falcon for the same reason keeping in mind the close relationship between america and Israel.

Iam not saying that F-16 Block 52s are equalent to Typhoons, but both are 4 plus generation fighters, with same capabilities but with different limits of their lethalities
During Kargil war, Even if PAF had Block 52s then we would not be facing the IAF since Pakistans stance was neutral and going against IAF over tiger hills meant Pakistans support for militants which could cause international caos.
And yes, Block 52s are entirely different machines then Block 52s, except their size and PAFs familiarity with US systems, Block 52 forms the best choice for PAF.

[PAF2010]

Wow interesting story! Can u post it here please if its alright?

Surely..........I will scan the page and post it here soon..

[aziqbal]

Americans are stuipid, on one hand they refuse F16s and then sell most advanced weapons to us

[airomerix]

Americans are stuipid, on one hand they refuse F16s and then sell most advanced weapons to us

Cuz if they donnot sell us, they get their A^^es kicked on our western borders

[GreenBeret]

I hope this may not be off-topic but somehow F-16 Block-15 OCU used by PAF since 1980's are BVR capable?

The APG-66 has nominal range of up to 80 NM (150km) with an azimuth scan out to +/- 60 degrees.

The OCU upgrades to the radar include a facility to slave the seekers of the all aspect AIM-9P-4 Sidewinder to the antenna boresight for dogfight acquisition, and facilities for datalink control of Amraam and alternately, if fitted, can support a continuous wave illuminator for the AIM-7 Sparrow (or similar CW SARH missile).

http://www.ausairpower.net/Analysis-TNI-AU-94.html

[tank131]

This has been known for a long time.  The question was always whether the PAF actually had the Sparrow missile (rumors stated that it did, officially it didnt).  However this really was a strange issue because the Aspide is a direct copy of Sparrow, and ironically the Pl-11 is a direct copy of Aspide.  Hence the PAF theoretically may have had Pl-11/Aspide/Sparrow in its arsenal for years without anyone realizing that they are actually BVR capable.

[GreenBeret]

I got surprised because recently i read somewhere that the PAF F-16's radars were swapped with French radars to make it BVR capable. i cant find the source now.