1821 replies to this topic

[airforcefan]

it is not a proof of any official sell or purchase.
This is just a news item. just like US defence cooperation chief statement that PAF is seeking 86 fighter 75 new and 11 old. the the compostion will be made after money issue is resloved. he didnot ruled out F-16e but PAF doesnt want to spend money on it.
and what do u think dassualt officials are that stupid that they dont understand these things. they have clearly shown there displeasure through media and they might offer compromise technology to India in the end. just like they boycotted some other country in 1967. u never know French anger. they can stand up to US. (they supported China arm bid to take over taiwan despite US pressure).India is very small thing to them.

Come back when India gets its hands on something worthwhile Made in USA.

Another set of pathetic reasoning. I will only reply to your points if i wish to and when i have time. There are sensible people on this forum and i give them higher priority than you.

[h177]

Another set of pathetic reasoning. I will only reply to your points if i wish to and when i have time. There are sensible people on this forum and i give them higher priority than you.

Because i can easily tear apart all ur arguments.

Didnt Frech just raise the price of Scorpenes to $4.5B and clock is continously ticking on India at rate of $2m per day.

the bottom line is French does not give a damn what India strategy. they simply follow there own rules. either u follow them or not. It is upto India.

[h177]

Some time has passed and your style hasn't still changed much. When will your grow up ? Don't you realize that it is for this kind of reasoning "US can give any name to a missile or number to the missile" you were shipped out of AFM forum.
Why you become so desperate to get across your point that you have to resort to childish and actually stupid reasoning.

$46 million are wasted because of buying obsolete AIM-9M1/2 missile. Simple as that. Is it too difficult for you to understand that ?

But your point about harpoon for P3C orion is right. The result of all that back and forth activity we will see when congress is notified about the package deal.

yes i have flush down the toilet draim what ever dignity is left in India at AFM forum.

so how $46m is wasted when there is no proof that PAF has paid for it? nor it is linked to something future F-16 purchase as defense cooperation chief has clearly mentioned as these things are yet to be decided.
u know nothing about harpoons and was claiming that these were for F-16 3 years down the line. it is completely laughable now.

[airforcefan]

Because i can easily tear apart all ur arguments.

Didnt Frech just raise the price of Scorpenes to $4.5B and clock is continously ticking on India at rate of $2m per day.

the bottom line is French does not give a damn what India strategy. they simply follow there own rules. either u follow them or not. It is upto India.

beta you have been kicked by me many times at AFM. and then here on PDF itself on Bars issue. You are on my ignore list. Improve urself. And honestly trust me there are many more better posters than you on this forum and few of them have left.

enjoy your furstration.

[h177]

beta you have been kicked by me many times at AFM. and then here on PDF itself on Bars issue. You are on my ignore list. Improve urself. And honestly trust me there are many more better posters than you on this forum and few of them have left.

enjoy your furstration.

there is nothing in Bars. Russia has clearly warned India that if India does not look after Russia interests. Russia will refuse to cooperate further.
I think by now they may shipping Bars tech to Pak  directly incase u dont know there is big improvement in relation with them.

[airforcefan]

u know nothing about harpoons and was claiming that these were for F-16 3 years down the line. it is completely laughable now.

Abbey gadhey,

pakistan's current F-16 fleet can be upgraded to fire harpoon. We don't have to wait for 3 years for that to happen. Besides that did you care to note that pakistan has asked for 11 **used** F-16s. They can fire Harpoon too. Pakistan doesn't want to wait long for F-16s. Infact your thinking that harpoons can be only fired by only those F-16s which pakistanis will be recieving 3 years down the line from whenever an agreement is signed is laughable.

so much for your tearing apart my arguements. Now listen like a good boy behave and improve. There are many other people who are more intelligent than you. Like ISI, DF, Tank131, thouse, vikasrehman, usmanalo etc........... sit tight and read how they write. In past people like TNP, awkafresh used to make some really nice post. Search for their post and read and notice how sensible others are.

[h177]

Forget what air force enthusiasts say, the PAF top brass doesn't seem to be THAT enthusiastic with F-16, and would rather buy something else.

they are quite enthusistic about F-16 but they dont want to show it in public. there is big meaing in this statement that F-16 does not meet high tech requirement.

[h177]

Abbey gadhey,

pakistan's current F-16 fleet can be upgraded to fire harpoon. We don't have to wait for 3 years for that to happen. Besides that did you care to note that pakistan has asked for 11 **used** F-16s. They can fire Harpoon too. Pakistan doesn't want to wait long for F-16s. Infact your thinking that harpoons can be only fired by only those F-16s which pakistanis will be recieving 3 years down the line from whenever an agreement is signed is laughable.

so much for your tearing apart my arguements. Now listen like a good boy behave and improve. There are many other people who are more intelligent than you. Like ISI, DF, Tank131, thouse, vikasrehman, usmanalo etc........... sit tight and read how they write. In past people like TNP, awkafresh used to make some really nice post. Search for their post and read and notice how sensible others are.

11 used but upgraded(latest Airchief statement 20 used with upgradation). It usually cost less than half for F-16 upgradation and but time taken is the same.

[vikasrehman]

Airforcefan

Nice 2 c u back here buddy, though i myself am hardly a regular anymore due to lack of time. Anyway, saw couple of ur posts (see following quotes), and decided to add my 2 cents. Since i have only skipped through a few posts in this thread, im not sure whats going on...so please correct me if im wrong. However, it seems that while ISI is claiming PAF's order to consist of block 52+ F-16, u r arguing they would be standard block 52...am i right?

Well Kohler who is dealing with the sales said that

"Kohler, in an interview with Reuters, said Pakistan had requested prices for F-16 Block 50/52 aircraft, the most modern F-16s flown by the United States and the current production standard. Similar aircraft have been exported to Poland, Greece, Chile, Oman and Israel."

So out of your own imagination you have stretched it to mean 52+ which means standard 52 + somethings from Block 60.

Unless you don't give me a credible source i am bound to believe reuters news service.

ISI,

I won't believe this F-16 block 52+ thing until you don't get me credible source that validates above claim. On the other hand it is more likely that Block 52+ will be offered to india. You will be surprised why i am saying that hence i have posted something for you

Just couple of points.
First, form what i have come across, current production standard of all F-16 coming out of LM is block 50/52+. F-16s meant for Greece, Chile, Israel, Singapore and some others, all are referred to as advanced block 50/52 or block 50/52+. Now this does not mean they are all the same. While some of them have CFTs, AN/APG 68 (v)9 etc., other may have other advanced features which were not present on original block 50/52. What PAF would purchase depends mainly on finaces as well as the degree of commonality that would be achieved between its old F-16 (after MLU) and new F-16s. However, any brand new F-16s that PAF purchases are more than likely to be referred to as advanced block 52 or block 52+.

[Adloph Hitler]

AOA
I think EF 2000 is much batter then Rafales and F-16s.I know it is expensive then others but quality is best. Pakistan Sale it’s F-16 to other countries and buys this batch of aircrafts for reducing it’s cost $. here is some information of EF 2000
Eurofighter is a single-seat, twin-engine, agile combat aircraft which will be used in the air-to-air, air-to-ground and tactical reconnaissance roles. The design of Eurofighter Typhoon is optimised for air dominance performance with high instantaneous and sustained turn rates, and specific excess power. Special emphasis has been placed on low wing loading, high thrust to weight ratio, excellent all round vision and carefree handling. The use of Stealth technology is incorporated throughout the aircraft’s basic design.
In September 1998 the Eurofighter was also designated the Typhoon, though this nomenclature is intended only for use in export markets outside Europe. Eurofighter remains the offical name in Europe, and Typhoon will not automatically be the EF2000s name with the four partner air forces when it enters service in 2002/3.
Eurofighter's air dominance supremacy and versatility as a multi-role combat aircraft is marked by its highly potent and comprehensive air-to-surface attack capability:
· Air Interdiction - capable of delivering a large payload over long distances, by day or night. Multiple, flexible sensors coupled with passive modes of delivery, and the retention of a full air-to-air fit ensure a formidable weapon system
· Close Air Support - ability to remain on task for long periods. Its sophisticated sensor suite allows close co-ordination with ground commanders, and the identification of individual targets
· Suppression of Enemy Air Defences (SEAD) - the combination of pinpoint navigational accuracy, highly sophisticated onboard sensors and dedicated 'fire and forget' weapons, ensure effective targeting of enemy air defences
· Maritime Attack - dedicated radar modes and datalink enable Eurofighter Typhoon to operate autonomously, or as part of an offensive force
Eurofighter’s high performance is matched by excellent all round vision and by sophisticated attack, identification and defence systems which include the ECR 90 long range radar and Infra Red Search and Track (IRST) system, advanced medium and short range air-to-air missiles and a comprehensive electronic warfare suite to enhance weapon system effectiveness and survivability. Eurofighter Typhoon is intentionally aerodynamically unstable to provide extremely high levels of agility, reduced drag and enhanced lift. The unstable design cannot be flown by conventional means and the pilot controls the aircraft via a computerised ‘fly by wire’ system.
Powerplant:
· Two Eurojet EJ200 turbofan engines
· Maximum Speed: ?Level - Mach 2.0
· Weights: ?Maximum Take-off Weight 21.000 kg (46.305 1b)
· Basic Mass Empty 9.999 kg (22,000 1b)
· External Stores 6.500 kg (14,300 lb)
Dimensions:
· Length 15.96 m (52 ft 4 in)
· Span 10.95 m (35 ft 1l in)
· Height 5.28 m (17 ft 7 in)
· Wing Area 50.0 sq m (538 sq ft)
Weapons and Stores:
· Internally mounted 27 mm Mauser cannon
· 13 hard points
· 3 wet stations for external fuel
· 6 dedicated air-to-air missile station
· Mixed Air-to-Air and Air-to-Surface loads possible
· Multiple missile/bomb carriage available on some stations
AH

[airforcefan]

11 used but upgraded(latest Airchief statement 20 used with upgradation). It usually cost less than half for F-16 upgradation and but time taken is the same.

Use some common sense, time taken to bring a certain type of fighter into existence and time taken for upgrading existing fighter with new reliable and tested avionics is not the same.

[KrUeLiNtEnSiOnZ]

Hello guys i have a question
which is better for PAF f-16 blk 50/52 or rafale
PLZ HELP

[PafAce01]

Hello guys i have a question
which is better for PAF f-16 blk 50/52 or rafale
PLZ HELP

This is what has been discussed a lot in this forum. That  Rafale is better for Pakistan Air Force but probabaly it is not better for country's current Economy.

[Adloph Hitler]

Hello new guys how I can edit my photo in front of my name?  Plz tell me step by step

[Adloph Hitler]

This is what has been discussed a lot in this forum. That  Rafale is better for Pakistan Air Force but probabaly it is not better for country's current Economy.

Anybody wants to tell me what is the price of EF 2000,F-16 and Rafale
No I think EF 2000 is much batter then others for PAF. To reducing total it’s cost sale your F-16 Squadron to UAE or KSA and Buy with more money EF 2000 Squadron. As I already said

[ISI2003]

Anybody wants to tell me what is the price of EF 2000,F-16 and Rafale
No I think EF 2000 is much batter then others for PAF. To reducing total it’s cost sale your F-16 Squadron to UAE or KSA and Buy with more money EF 2000 Squadron. As I already said

ef-2000            90 million
rafale               80 million
f-16 block 52+  40 million

-------------------
i said that the planes we are getting are called block52+ because:
1. the PW engine gives the plane the Block 52 status
2. and anything better then the originial block 52 equipement makes it the Block 52+

we might some things from the block 60, so that obviously would be better then the base line block 52, so it is called the Block 52+

[Adloph Hitler]

do you any prove?

[ISI2003]

do you any prove?

is this directed at me? about the prices?
greece bought its block 52+ for 42 million each, and the acm mentioned 75 new planes, which have been said to add to 3 billion (40 million each)

for the others we have to look at their sale price to their governments
total divided by units sold

[h177]

Use some common sense, time taken to bring a certain type of fighter into existence and time taken for upgrading existing fighter with new reliable and tested avionics is not the same.

just read a little bit about F-16MLU history than reply back. F-16 at its peak 300 were produced per year and newer built are quickly delivered as compared to older ones but older ones are cheaper to get.
ur bison upgrade time is laughable.

[Adloph Hitler]

is this directed at me? about the prices?
greece bought its block 52+ for 42 million each, and the acm mentioned 75 new planes, which have been said to add to 3 billion (40 million each)

for the others we have to look at their sale price to their governments
total divided by units sold

plz write me any web where i can check the prices of Rafale,F-16 and EF 2000

[ISI2003]

plz write me any web where i can check the prices of Rafale,F-16 and EF 2000

read up on things and look around the web

The F-16 cost about $45 million

Source

but that was back in 1999, and the eventually paid 42 million per plane

and now it is 2005, so the price goes down, and so the price will be 40 million now

--------------
the rest you can look up by searching the web

[Hellscream]

Will PAF get the Aim-120 ?
i really doubt it .....Taiwan that was a core area of US foreign policy in the ante with china got it after a long time ...something called the AMRAAM diplomacy..


The sparrow seems certain though from USAF/USN inventories...but still provides the PAF with only SARH BVR capability ...looks like only the JF-17/SD-10 combination will fill the ARH hole.

[rabirizvi]

I have a feeling that Paf will get aim-120 b if Pakistan force US for it n wat betta way for dat if we can show Sd-10 fully operational with Paf.LM n ratheon also wants bucks n when they will see dat due to the nonavailability of aim 120b(or c) Paf is going for more sd-10 from china,they will pressurize US Govt to make atleast aim120-b available for sale to Pakistan.we have still 3 yrs b4 we start inducting newer f-16s, anything can happen by then:)

[ISI2003]

Will PAF get the Aim-120 ?
i really doubt it .....Taiwan that was a core area of US foreign policy in the ante with china got it after a long time ...something called the AMRAAM diplomacy..
The sparrow seems certain though from USAF/USN inventories...but still provides the PAF with only SARH BVR capability ...looks like only the JF-17/SD-10 combination will fill the ARH hole.

yes that is the core of the new f-16 deal
the aim-120's are a must

[Adloph Hitler]

i don't think pakistan air force use AIM 120

[Kim Jong-il Hater]

i don't think pakistan air force use AIM 120

It's going to be in the F-16 deal.

[rafael_2k5]

Of course AMRAAMs r a must PAF has already mentioned in its acquisition statement of  procuring advanced C/D models alongwith BVR capability other wise thre wasnt any fun in goin 4 the F-16s its the complete package n im ready to bet my 10 cents that if US disapproves there wont be any F-16 deal!!!!

[Adloph Hitler]

why not Pakistan Transfer F-16 Technolegy like Turkey?

[ISI2003]

why not Pakistan Transfer F-16 Technolegy like Turkey?

one main reason the deal is being allowed is because it will save 5000 Lockheed Martin jobs

[vikasrehman]

ToT is only worth the price if u plan to procure enough units. For example Turkey purchased 240 or so.

[airforcefan]

just read a little bit about F-16MLU history than reply back. F-16 at its peak 300 were produced per year and newer built are quickly delivered as compared to older ones but older ones are cheaper to get.
ur bison upgrade time is laughable.

You mean to say if Pakistan decides to upgrade its F-16 and SIGNS the deal with LM which is cleared by US state dept. today, then until June 4th, 2008 not even a single upgraded F-16 will be available to pakistan to fire harpoon ?

Now see 117 turkish block 40 and block 50 F-16s will be upragded by LM within 7 years and 6 months.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_news_article1352.html
"Lockheed Martin will modernise 117 of Turkey's F-16s, with an option for upgrading of another 100 planes. Work on upgrading the F-16s is to begin in July, with the project expected to be completed by 2012."

Still you think that none of the 11 used F-16s if cleared by US govt. today, will be available to Pakistan for before June 4th 2008 ? Keep in mind that used means at max. 2-3 years old airframes so that a lot of service life is still left in them after upgradation. Upgrading new airframe F-16s doesn't takes time like older ones which need extensive modifications. That is why i was saying upgraded used F-16s can be made available to fire harpoon before the brand new ones arrive.

What is laughable is almost two decades of begging by YOUR HIGHEST LEADERSHIP at US feets for releasing F-16s. Our PM etc.. don't go and beg for such long period of time at someones feet. President and CEO of Boeing is offering F/A-18 E/F to india while we don't see Lockheed Martin doing same for pakistan - saying that we wanna sell you our F-16 Block 60.

Buying things on baksheesh and paying from your own pockets, there is a big difference in between them. Isn't it ? You may not accept it but the captilist industry of America knows it well.  To highlight this point i posted that article from AWST. I personally wrote down and underlined that it doesn't means that india is getting Super Hornet etc.......

This is what Kohler said in an interview to Reuters:

"Asked about any Pakistani interest in the Block 60 model, Kohler said: "They did not ask for it and I don't think they could afford it."

Kohler held arms-sale talks with defense ministry officials in Pakistan and India last month.

"I think when we go back and talk to them about the cost of the new systems my guess is that they will downsize slightly the (request for) new and they may increase slightly the used," he said."

[airforcefan]

it is not a proof of any official sell or purchase.

Read properly again. I underlined something

"NOTE: this doesn't means that india is gonna get this fighter. Neither this means that India will get F-16 block 52+. "

It is only for dumbos like you who don't read properly. Its very unfortunate you still didn't read that portion or may be your couldn't comprehend what was written.

anyways this STANDARD of replying is expected from you.

but PAF doesnt want to spend money on it.

To quote him properly, Reuters says Kohler thinks that pakistan cannot afford block 60. You people are poor. remember that h-177. Read reuters link again its on this thread may be on 3rd page.

and what do u think dassualt officials are that stupid that they dont understand these things. they have clearly shown there displeasure through media and they might offer compromise technology to India in the end.

What displeasure they have shown over Mirage deal ? How can they show that given the fact that at this moment this tender is as fresh and new as a baby ?

just like they boycotted some other country in 1967. u never know French anger. they can stand up to US. (they supported China arm bid to take over taiwan despite US pressure).India is very small thing to them.

First of all india isn't gonna buy F-16s or F/A 18E/F. Second lets not speculate about future based on whims.

Come back when India gets its hands on something worthwhile Made in USA.

Well india can definately get certain things if Indian govt. is willing to go ahead and lobby. One example is Phalcon AWACS which involves US tech and money. Recently Lockheed signed a deal with HAL for sharing information on P3 Orion programme.

http://www.edefenseonline.com/default.asp?...3_11_2005_IF_01
"In addition, on the eve of the air show, Lockheed Martin and India's state-owned aeronautics giant Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) signed a technical-assistance agreement related to the P-3 Orion, the first such agreement between the two countries, according to Dennys Plessas, regional vice president of Lockheed Martin.

The Indian Navy has been negotiating the purchase of P-3 Orion aircraft via the US Foreign Military Sales program for the last four years, and HAL officials said that data exchange under the TAA would allow the Indian company to provide detailed technical and commercial proposals for participation in the airframe-modernization program. Ashok Baweja, chief of HAL, called the deal "the beginning of a long-term partnership."

http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/1/hi/business/4250223.stm
"Lockheed said it had signed an agreement with state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) to share information on the P-3 Orion maritime surveillance aircraft."

Has an american giant ever signed an agreement to share info on military equipment with any pakistani company ?

Is their any Joint Venture agreement between MBDA and any pakistani company ?

Read the special report on india in New Scientist Magazine feb19-25, 2005. And come back to me when some reputable magazine covers pakistan in the same way.

[h177]

You mean to say if Pakistan decides to upgrade its F-16 and SIGNS the deal with LM which is cleared by US state dept. today, then until June 4th, 2008 not even a single upgraded F-16 will be available to pakistan to fire harpoon ?

Now see 117 turkish block 40 and block 50 F-16s will be upragded by LM within 7 years and 6 months.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_news_article1352.html
"Lockheed Martin will modernise 117 of Turkey's F-16s, with an option for upgrading of another 100 planes. Work on upgrading the F-16s is to begin in July, with the project expected to be completed by 2012."

Still you think that none of the 11 used F-16s if cleared by US govt. today, will be available to Pakistan for before June 4th 2008 ? Keep in mind that used means at max. 2-3 years old airframes so that a lot of service life is still left in them after upgradation. Upgrading new airframe F-16s doesn't takes time like older ones which need extensive modifications. That is why i was saying upgraded used F-16s can be made available to fire harpoon before the brand new ones arrive.

What is laughable is almost two decades of begging by YOUR HIGHEST LEADERSHIP at US feets for releasing F-16s. Our PM etc.. don't go and beg for such long period of time at someones feet. President and CEO of Boeing is offering F/A-18 E/F to india while we don't see Lockheed Martin doing same for pakistan - saying that we wanna sell you our F-16 Block 60.

Buying things on baksheesh and paying from your own pockets, there is a big difference in between them. Isn't it ? You may not accept it but the captilist industry of America knows it well.  To highlight this point i posted that article from AWST. I personally wrote down and underlined that it doesn't means that india is getting Super Hornet etc.......

This is what Kohler said in an interview to Reuters:

"Asked about any Pakistani interest in the Block 60 model, Kohler said: "They did not ask for it and I don't think they could afford it."

Kohler held arms-sale talks with defense ministry officials in Pakistan and India last month.

"I think when we go back and talk to them about the cost of the new systems my guess is that they will downsize slightly the (request for) new and they may increase slightly the used," he said."

Again wrong comparisions. Turks airforce fighters are already F-16C/D so they need just avionics upgrade. PAF fighters even after MLU will still be A/B which does not give airframe strength of latest C/Ds for heavy weopon strikes. there is big difference in airframe. A/B is limited to 5.5 tons external load while C/D is for 10 tons external not to mention CFT later on.
also Turks are much ahead in terms of F-16 knowledge relative to Paks due to there license manufacturing and close cooperation with US  industry so they can upgrade faster than PAF.
used can have any meaning. US coast guards uses F-16A.
and regarding  begging for weopons. i doubt after past f-16 affair PAF will ever want to pay for US weopons so it is more government to government deal rather than any firm offering to a country. so there is no point for LM pursuing anything here. It is more of Pak gov trying to convince US gov for free F-16s. PAF main air to air fighter will JF-17. and one another fighter from its own pocket. F-16 is more for strike role.

[h177]

Read properly again. I underlined something

"NOTE: this doesn't means that india is gonna get this fighter. Neither this means that India will get F-16 block 52+. "

It is only for dumbos like you who don't read properly. Its very unfortunate you still didn't read that portion or may be your couldn't comprehend what was written.

anyways this STANDARD of replying is expected from you.
To quote him properly, Reuters says Kohler thinks that pakistan cannot afford block 60. You people are poor. remember that h-177. Read reuters link again its on this thread may be on 3rd page.
What displeasure they have shown over Mirage deal ? How can they show that given the fact that at this moment this tender is as fresh and new as a baby ?
First of all india isn't gonna buy F-16s or F/A 18E/F. Second lets not speculate about future based on whims.
Well india can definately get certain things if Indian govt. is willing to go ahead and lobby. One example is Phalcon AWACS which involves US tech and money. Recently Lockheed signed a deal with HAL for sharing information on P3 Orion programme.

http://www.edefenseonline.com/default.asp?...3_11_2005_IF_01
"In addition, on the eve of the air show, Lockheed Martin and India's state-owned aeronautics giant Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) signed a technical-assistance agreement related to the P-3 Orion, the first such agreement between the two countries, according to Dennys Plessas, regional vice president of Lockheed Martin.

The Indian Navy has been negotiating the purchase of P-3 Orion aircraft via the US Foreign Military Sales program for the last four years, and HAL officials said that data exchange under the TAA would allow the Indian company to provide detailed technical and commercial proposals for participation in the airframe-modernization program. Ashok Baweja, chief of HAL, called the deal "the beginning of a long-term partnership."

http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/1/hi/business/4250223.stm
"Lockheed said it had signed an agreement with state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) to share information on the P-3 Orion maritime surveillance aircraft."

Has an american giant ever signed an agreement to share info on military equipment with any pakistani company ?

Is their any Joint Venture agreement between MBDA and any pakistani company ?

Read the special report on india in New Scientist Magazine feb19-25, 2005. And come back to me when some reputable magazine covers pakistan in the same way.

why would Pak sign any agreement with MBDA or for that matter US company when future missiles are mostly from Chinese origin? and south african and ukranian for that matter.
and ur P-3C agreement is nothing more that supplying some cheap parts for already retired aircraft. even PAC will supply part to boeing and P-3C airframe is nothing marvel of new technology.

[Desert Eagle2]

Again wrong comparisions. Turks airforce fighters are already F-16C/D so they need just avionics upgrade. PAF fighters even after MLU will still be A/B which does not give airframe strength of latest C/Ds for heavy weopon strikes. there is big difference in airframe. A/B is limited to 5.5 tons external load while C/D is for 10 tons external not to mention CFT later on.
also Turks are much ahead in terms of F-16 knowledge relative to Paks due to there license manufacturing and close cooperation with US  industry so they can upgrade faster than PAF.
used can have any meaning. US coast guards uses F-16A.
and regarding  begging for weopons. i doubt after past f-16 affair PAF will ever want to pay for US weopons so it is more government to government deal rather than any firm offering to a country. so there is no point for LM pursuing anything here. It is more of Pak gov trying to convince US gov for free F-16s. PAF main air to air fighter will JF-17. and one another fighter from its own pocket. F-16 is more for strike role.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the MLU program include structural strengthening of the F-16 in question?  From what I know, an F-16MA can carry all the weapons an F-16 C/D can carry.

[Saqr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the MLU program include structural strengthening of the F-16 in question?  From what I know, an F-16MA can carry all the weapons an F-16 C/D can carry.

Doesn't that usually mean avionics and integration upgrades?  Structural upgrades usually mean adding another two hardpoints, increasing air time, changing some exterior parts of the aircraft, etc.

[h177]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the MLU program include structural strengthening of the F-16 in question?  From what I know, an F-16MA can carry all the weapons an F-16 C/D can carry.

yes they can carry all the weopons but still F-16A does not have the MTOW of late mode F-16C nor there is cft i have seen on them. and also the new upgraded engines like -229 are not part of F-16MLU. so difference is still there.

[KrUeLiNtEnSiOnZ]

how will pak reply if india buys 126 f-16 Blk 60 or f/a 18 e/f
PK Govt. should think about this first

[KrUeLiNtEnSiOnZ]

even if india doesnt buy any new aircraft, will the new paki f16s be able to match the su30

[ISI2003]

even if india doesnt buy any new aircraft, will the new paki f16s be able to match the su30

with the ASEA radar we are looking at now, the f-16s will be just right to match the su-30mki

and the indians are most likely not getting the f-16 or f-18's
so pakistan is not even thinking about that