52 replies to this topic

[Munir]

Malaysian govt refuses to meet Pak delegation

By our correspondent

ISLAMABAD: Malaysian Interior Ministry officials refused to meet the Pakistan government delegation that went there to hold negotiations on import of manpower from Pakistan.

The Senate Standing Committee on Labour, Manpower and Overseas Pakistani was told that the Malaysian government was pursuing its trade interests and giving importance to workers from India instead of Pakistan.

The committee meeting was presided over by Naeem Chattha and attended by senators including Enwar Baig. The disclosure was made by top officials of Bureau of Immigration and Overseas Employment, and Overseas Employment Corporation.

They said despite their best efforts, the Labour Ministry officials were not entertained by the Malaysian interior ministry. The committee members asked the labour ministry officials to inform them about the much publicised MoU signed between Pakistan and Malaysia for hiring of Pakistani labour.

The ministry officials disclosed that the MoU was signed only to make Pakistan eligible to send its manpower to Malaysia as its name was not on the approved list of countries from where Malaysia import the manpower. There was no mention of number of manpower to be imported as earlier claimed by ministers.

The meeting was told that after the signing of the MoU not a single person was sent to Malaysia so far as the Malaysian government was not keen to import manpower from Pakistan. It said keeping the discouraging response of the Malaysian ministry, the government sent its own delegation to convince them to import labour from Pakistan. But no progress was made on this count.

The Labour Ministry officials observed that the Malaysian labour ministry was not inclined to import manpower from Pakistan. When a senator asked whether the Malaysian government was not importing manpower from Pakistan because of alleged Pak links to terrorists, the officials denied it. However, they told the meeting "we should not deal with Malaysia only because that it was a Muslim country".

[Aarshad]

Unbelievable  

[Sultan]

We need that manpower for Gwadar City, for Zhob City, Ormara (next port city), Pasni and Jiwani, and Peshawar, and other parts of the country. These Muslim Brothers, are only Muslim brothers in words, nothing practical.

[platinum786]

yes, another example of being kicked in the teeth.

I'm glad, it helps our youth to learn the true value of who they are.

[Dizasta]

Oh yea .... as i said all along & you can check my previous posts for verification. These malays are a bunch of snobs & retards. Why, i ask, do we have to sell our military equipment or train there personnel. Pakistan should give tit for tat. You're cooperative with us on outstanding issues & and so will we. But you act like a jackass then we'll put you in the cold.

Pakistan should suspend all military assistance to malaysia for this!

[deltared075]

Malaysia already headache with illegal labour from many countries...

Manpower? Or should it write cheap labour?

Yupe, we got lot of cheap labour from Indo, India, Thailand, Vietnam...

So, the Pakistani want to be cheap labour here too?

Few problem with Pakistani, cheap labour mean they did not know english...
It will be difficult for their employer to communicate with them...

For labour in malaysia, usually monthly payment around USD $130

[defenceboy]

No Islamic country will help us in difficult time. Saray khookhalay naray hain Islamic brotherhood kay. The only true friend of Pakistan is China. Do Not  depend upon any Islamic country for help, Joo karna hay, khud karoo, Apnay bazoowon say.

[omarxizt]

The core issue here is not about cheap labor at all but rather political imbalace within the region. Already if you see the numbers the labor force is estimated at 10.26 million as of 2004 with agriculture 14.5%, industry 36%, and services 49.5% devide. The service area in the country is booming because of outsourcing from US and european countries. Pakistanis that are required or are being considered to go over there are with minimal education and technical level. Most Pakistanis who are well educated are usually heading for the western market and do not even consider Malaysia as one of the country for migration.

This comes down to simple economics rather then anything else. More illegal means more trouble just like we want all Afghans out of our cities the Malaysians had enough of there share on illegal immigration.

[happy_go_lucky]

No Islamic country will help us in difficult time.

Malaysia is NOT an Islamic country, although Islam is its national religion.  It is a secular nation with majority muslim population, something like 55%.

[haroons222]

Salam
    Ok i beg to differ,i think we should look at the flip side of things,maybe we need to improve ourselves as well.If they are taking indian manpower, they must provide some advantage ( although i cant think of any advantage a lean population can provide ) but seriously.

They are snobs?maybe i mean they have a 9000 per capita GDP,but pesonally they are the most successful Muslim country,having such a good economy wihtout any oil.i personally admire Muhatir Muhammad and his struggle and sincerity with his country.We can learn from them.
We also have our dislikings,Arabs:P, some would say afghans.
But still,this isnt good.

[happy_go_lucky]

They are snobs?maybe i mean they have a 9000 per capita GDP,but pesonally they are the most successful Muslim country,having such a good economy wihtout any oil.i personally admire Muhatir Muhammad and his struggle and sincerity with his country.We can learn from them.
We also have our dislikings,Arabs:P, some would say afghans.
But still,this isnt good.

Not sure if this is valid anymore, but I remember reading about a decade ago that ethinic chinese and indians control 80% of Malaysia's economy,  which is the reason it can never become a true Islamic nation.

[S.R.A.H]

wow, now malaysia too.

what happened to mahatir's words of wisdom and so forth.

I don't get it , how come the pakistani delegation was there and malaysian interior ministry just refused to meet with 'em.  why didn't they fixed the appointment or something before going there.

[triton]

wow, now malaysia too.

what happened to mahatir's words of wisdom and so forth.

I don't get it , how come the pakistani delegation was there and malaysian interior ministry just refused to meet with 'em.  why didn't they fixed the appointment or something before going there.

The Prime Minister of Malaysia is Abdullah Ahmad Badawi and not Mahatir anymore, he has retired and Badawi won the elections

Mr & Mrs  Badawi visited India for five days with a 70 member delegation and 4 ministers on Dec 20th. They signed 15 agreements related to trade space civil enginnering Pharmacuticals defence anti-terror legislation taxation treaties FTA related issues etc etc with India. India is one of Malaysias largest trading partner. Mr Badawi made a specific point on calling on Indians to work in Malaysia's IT industry.

[fc1000]

We pakistanis make the mistake of thinking that all muslim countries see india through our (pakistani) eyes and we assume they will always side with us in disputes with india.

This is not a valid assumption. In a lot of these countries India has a bigger cultural presence through bollywood movies and music. This is the case in a lot of mid-eastern countries as well. Malasia manufacures a lot of electornic  and computing items - indians have a bigger skills base than us in these fields.

They probably think that pakistanis are only good for cheap unskilled jobs that nobody else wants - just what we think of afghans. hence they probably regard their relationship with India as more important than pakistan.

[triton]

Its more than trade. Malaysia wants to integrate tightly with Indias economy and all other sectors. As for Dr Mahathir ( An Indian name by the way ) he was all thorugh his life a close friend of India and in 1994 was awarded the Jawaharlal Nehru Award. He toured India on 5 official visits

Indo-Malaysian pact more than trade: Badawi

Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmed Badawi said today that sectors such as education, health services, and agriculture, besides trade, would figure in the proposed comprehensive co-operation agreement with India which is expected to be signed next year.

Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmed Badawi said today that sectors such as education, health services, and agriculture, besides trade, would figure in the proposed comprehensive co-operation agreement with India which is expected to be signed next year, report newswires.

The Prime Ministers of both countries agreed to constitute a committee made up of representatives from both sides to look at "all sectors," Badawi said in Bangalore. Trade will be a "very big element" in the agreement, in which education, health service, agriculture, and "other areas" would also feature, he said.

Earlier, Badawi said he hoped the agreement would be signed during Singh's visit to Malaysia next year. "I hope discussions on this can begin and be concluded soon, perhaps in time for the Prime Minister's visit to Malaysia. Beyond Malaysia, south-east Asia also needs greater integration with trading partners like India, and cannot remain competitive merely by strengthening south-east Asian intra-regional co-operation," he said.

Asked if Malaysia would consider issuing visas on arrivals for short stays, he responded, "Why not? " Earlier, he pointed out that Malaysia decided a few months ago to issue multiple entry visas for those coming from India. Malaysia has also appointed some companies to process visa applications in India.
 

MONEYCONTROL

[Slayer]

munir, where is the link?

[Jimmy Jimmy]

Looks Like after the malaysian President Visit to India the Relations with pakistan has Changed    Wht was he Doing in The HAL(Hindu Aeronautics ltd)

[fc1000]

This is bad news, no Muslim country should allow these filthy urine breaths to clean their toilets let alone into their countries.  I am certain if former Prime Minister 'Dr Muhatthir' was around this would not be the case. 
Could it be that Malaysia see's India as a large market for it's goods?

This is exactly my point. just becuz u have these opinions of indians does not mean all muslim countries think of india in this way.

Even during Dr Mahatirs time India had good relations with India. Malaysians have never been that enthusiastic on Pakistans point of view on issues like Kashmir. Malaysia is ethnically and religously diverse country and it would not be in their nature to support any thing that wud encourage such tensions in their own country.

Dr Mahatir wud have done anything that he thought was in the economic interest of Malaysia. Mahatir was very pro western - despite some of his retohric. Malaysia is doing well becuz lot of American and Japanese companies have invested there. If the USA thought malaysian gov supported muslim causes around the world they wud never have allowed any investment into Malaysia.

Another good thing about Mahatir was that he was very strict on religous radicals. He new that if he allowed fundos to freely operate in the country it wud cause tension with the large Chinese minority community and without the Chinese business and technical skills Malaysia wud not have been doing that well. If leaders of our own MMA like Kazi and Fazl ur rehman lived in Mahatirs malaysia they wud be in jail.

Malaysia is held out as a model for other muslim countries, but in my opinon Malaysia is a special case. When in the 1940s communist took over in China a lot of Chinese migrated to Malaysia, which was under British control then. Chinese make up around 26% of the population. Ethnic Malays make up around 62% of the population. 8% of the people are ethnically Indians.

Most of the businesses that have contributed to the succes of Malaysia are owned or run by the Chinese. Malaysian leaders have been very wise in making sure all ethnic and religous tensions are suppressed.

Imagine if 26% of Pakistans population consisted of people thrust upon us by some foreign power and those people were non muslims and culturally completed different.  wud our leaders have been wise enough to take advantage of these peoples skills or wud we have considered them as kafirs and tried our best to get rid of them? success or failure of countries depend on making the right decison in situations like this.

[MoThSmOkE]

Dont need to get all frowned.

Malaysia has a sizeable ethnic Indian population so obviously the Indian lobby would always be stronger than the Pakistani one. Personally, I think its a blessing in disguise. Exporting your manpower (educated/uneducated) would be hurting you in the longer run. Especially the educated ones, who'll be exported and after a few years apply for citizenship in the country of residence and then become naturalized citizens there. What does the country of origin get? Petty remittances on a monthly basis.

Its high time the government of Pakistan thinks on a long term prospect. Surely the snubbing of the Malaysian government for Pakistani manpower is an insult in itself, but we shouldnt be prioritizing ourselves for exporting manpower to earn remittances. Keep them like a treasure as they are the biggest resource a country can have.

Malaysians do have sympathies for Pakistan. I remember when I used to go to Malaysia on a frequent basis, Malays used to ask me where am I from. When I told them Pakistan, the first few words that came out from their mouth was 'Nuclear Power'. Same with Indonesians. We are seen in a good light there.

[postman]

Its a good thing in many ways:

A) Who were the beauracrats who worked on the MOU between Pakistan and Malaysia why did they allow a document to be signed which means basically nothing?

B) All this brother brother mumbo jumbo crap can be put to rest, for those who care to  remember that Iraq and Afghanistan and Bangladesh also in way or another have their own nations interests or that of their peoples before any religous consideration.

C) This presents Pakistans regime and the people of Pakistan a chance to review all the MOU signed by the present Govt with greater scrutiny and the Govt to explain to the people of Pakistan if them MOU's are worth the paper they are written on.

D) Malaysia is working to get billion dollar contracts in Hindustan to service the hindus motorways and the hindi infrestructure what better way to show loyalty than slap Paksitans face so publicly?

E) Malaysia was going througha mass illegal immigrant crackdown using its national guard to acheive its goal of less imported labour before the tsunami which is slowed down due to the worlds sympathies for the people effected, it wouldnt look too good with the worlds media there looking on as Malaysia deporting its illegals en mass. Did Malaysia need more manpower and were the Pakistani delgation invited?

F) Malaysia's own press has not highlighted this snub to its own people so far the Arab, Hindu and Pakistan press has.

Malaysian company loses damage claim against Pakistan in IAC

Tuesday December 28, 2004 (1358 PST)

ISLAMABAD, December 29 (Online): Pakistan has won the case of damage claim amounting to $510 million filed by a Malaysian private power supply company of Sabah Ship yard during Benazir Bhutto regime.

Unveiling details to the journalists, Pakistan counsel in the case, Munawar Akhtar told that in July 1995 the then Prime Minister of Pakistan Benazir Bhutto and her spouse Asif Zardari and secretary water and power Suleman Farooqi visited Malaysia.

During this visit, a notorious and bankrupt Sabah ship yard executed two agreements with government of Pakistan and Karachi Electricity Supply Company (KESC) for installation of power plant in Karachi costing $300 million within twenty months. KESC was to purchase the power to be generated by it.

Sabah failed to install power plant within the stipulated period of 20 months. Nawaz Sharif government sent notices to the company for its failure to install the project. The agreement was eventually cancelled in 1998.

In this regard, Sabah filed two claims of damages amounting to $510 million and $9 million against the government of Pakistan and KESC respectively in the Arbitration Court by International Chamber of Commerce Paris. The firm lost the case.

Judge Derrick S Firth of arbitration court not only decided the case in favour of Pakistan but also directed the company to pay $.592 million to Pakistan on account of expenses it had to incur in connection with this case.

End.
http://www.paktribune.com/main/index.php?id=13&newsId=88401

After taking a$.592 million hit I wouldnt expect Malaysia to be too friendly. Regardless of the company being private its Malaysian.

As for  Dr Mahatir the 'hero' of the muslims the policies he left in place after his decades old rule are now bearing fruit as unpalatable as it sound thats the reality.
Musharraf and Aziz's view is correct economic might is also the defence of the nation. Those muslim nations who had the economic policies and know how did not share them with Pakistan while Pakistan on the other hand was handing out nuclear know how like it was candy. At least Paksitan knows where it now stands in relation to Malaysia( Behind India).

[USAM]

This is good thing for some people in Pakistan, so people can see where they stand and they can use this insult to as a fuel for their will to succeed and excell.

[postman]

Editor-in-Chief: Ahmed Jarallah

Kuwait News Search
Advance Search

Hold on visas for Pakistanis

KUWAIT: Issuance of every type of visa for Pakistani nationals has been stopped, say sources at the Farwaniya Immigration Department. Pakistani nationals shall not be permitted work, visit or family visas, according to an Immigration Department decision that came into effect Saturday, the sources added without giving the reason for the ban or the duration it would remain in force. This is the second time that such a ban has been imposed. A similar ban was lifted after nearly three years in 2003 after detailed talks between the Pakistani and Kuwaiti authorities.

Director-General of the Search and Follow-Up Department of the General Immigration Department Colonel Sheikh Ahmad Al-Nawaf said police will soon begin a campaign to arrest residence law violators and summon their sponsors for interrogation for failing to take advantage of the 40-day amnesty period to force their employees to leave the country, reports Al-Anba daily. Al-Nawaf also said a study is being conducted to find a solution to the sponsorship system which reflects the uncivilized image of Kuwait and damages its reputation abroad particularly since several cases of trading in residence permits have been reported to authorities.

Al-Nawaf said expatriates especially those working for Kuwaiti families as drivers (Article 20) will be deported from the country if they are caught transporting passengers.He added the sponsors will also be interrogated and will be barred from sponsoring drivers if it is proven they knew the drivers were transporting passengers for money.

- By Melanie Britto - Arab Times Staff and Agencies

http://www.arabtimesonline.com/arabtimes/k...p?ID=3011&cat=a

[asal-main]

In diplomacy, reciprocity is an accepted principle. So next time a Malaysian delegation arrives, refuse to meet them, downgrade their meeting to a lower level official, or better yet let them have a meeting with office boys and peons, with the excuse that higher officials had an urgent engagement. I am serious, thats the way to send a message.

Malaysia also had arrested and abused a bunch of Indians last year, India reacted angrily,  they could take action because I think they had threatened to cancel malaysian imports and contracts. Malaysians turned into pussies.

By the way, most of the muslim world is bunch of pussies and cowards who are extremely scared of non muslim world. This is why people like mahathir and khameini and gaddafi and saddam, they are all talk and no action. malaysia is no exception. Its not a coincidence pakistan is the only muslim nuclear power in the world.........besides, the 'muslim' identity is not a political identity in other places, its only in south asia due to the hostility of hindus that this identity manifested itself into political identity. Sort of how black-white political identity exists in the US or South Africa.

[aziqbal]

we shouldnt have approched them in the first place for this purpose
cutting of military ties would only hurt pakistan

[happy_go_lucky]

besides, the 'muslim' identity is not a political identity in other places,

On the contrary, "muslim" identity has been the political identity throught out the history and continues to be, all over the world, in the muslim majority and even significant minority regions.

its only in south asia due to the hostility of hindus that this identity manifested itself into political identity.

If the majority population of south asia before the independence was Christian, Taoist, Buddhists, Jews,  or just plain atheists before the creation of Pakistan, the result would have been same.

We focus on Hindus only because, they are historically, culturally and geographically closest to us.  If you speak to Palestinians, they would talking about Jews, Chechans about Russians (christians and commies), Bosnians about Serbs (christians),  Thai about Buddists, indonesians about christians and to some extend hindus etc. etc.....

[CAPTAIN-JI]

No doubt, we pakistani are so concern about other muslim countries and raise the slogan of muslim brotherhood..................[SIZE=1]TO HELL WITH ALL, WE SHOULD THINK AS A PAKISTANI FIRST, Cuz of these stupid arabs, we already got the stamp of terrorist nation. These arab nation has oil and arab brother hood. WHAT WE GOT ? ....................ANYBODY TELL ME?...............Every single pakistani lands of anywhere in the world, first immigration officiers genralize the pakistani passport as terrorist handbook........................i feel sorry for Pervez Musharraf, how he deal with world leaders, we they raise the question of terrorism.?...............

[fc1000]

Looks Like after the malaysian President Visit to India the Relations with pakistan has Changed    Wht was he Doing in The HAL(Hindu Aeronautics ltd)

Malaysia operates mig29s and has also now agreed to buy su-30 aircrafts from Russia. HAL has facilities to make spare parts and repair and overhaul these aircaft. HAL will look after Malaysian aircaraft as well as Indian airforce aircraft.

It makes sense from Malaysian point of view. It will be too expensive to send them back to Russia for repair/overhaul and the Malaysians don't have these aircrafts in large numbers to justify setting up indigenous repair/overhaul facilities. sub-contracting the work to Indians is the perfect solution for the Malaysian air force.

Malaysians have always had close defence relations with India. Just becuz they bought a few missiles (i think ANZAs) doesn't mean they owe us anything.

We must not behave as if blasphemy as been committed everytime we hear of muslim country having good relaions with India.

[fc1000]

a report from Indian business web site

HAL: Puts up a show for Malaysia's PM
Bangalore: The Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd has presented its products, the `Dhruv', the advanced light helicopter, along with the Intermediate Jet Trainer and the Light Combat Aircraft for Malaysia's consideration, putting them up for display before the visiting Malaysian Prime Minister. The Malaysian Prime Minister, Abdallah Ahamad Badawi, visited HAL's Bangalore Complex on Thursday.

Badawi, leading a high level team of Ministers and officials to Bangalore, also watched the flight demonstrations of two other HAL products, the Intermediate Jet Trainer prototype and the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) prototype 2, for nearly 30 minutes, along with the 'Dhruv'. Meanwhile, the helicopter will be flying at next month's air show at the UAE as well as at the Paris show.

The ALH is a 14-seater multi-purpose helicopter with variants for civilian, navy and army use. It entered service in March 2002 and is being targeted at the States for VIP transits, for medical emergencies and at times of disasters.

The Malaysian Government has a fleet of 25 Alouette III helicopters and has been scouting for a new lot to replace or augment it. According to HAL, it has shown its interest in the ALH since it flew at the Paris Air Show in June 2003. Besides following it up with presentations to the Malaysian Armed Forces, the company has also offered to upgrade the Royal Malaysian Air Force's Alouette fleet and the offer is under evaluation.

Under a bilateral agreement, the RMAF has been sourcing Alouette spares, repair and overhaul services from HAL for $6 million. HAL also supplies helicopter spares and services to their aircraft maintenance agency AIROD.

In addition to helicopter-related business, the company has been in interactions for support to Malaysia's SU-30 fighters. It recently signed a $10.38-million contract with the Malaysian Government for the supply of radar computers for the Su-30 MKM aircraft that Malaysia is procuring from Russia. HAL said it was exploring further opportunities to enhance business volumes with that country.

[asal-main]

On the contrary, "muslim" identity has been the political identity throught out the history and continues to be, all over the world, in the muslim majority and even significant minority regions.

Where's the proof of what you say? There is no backing for it.

If 'muslim' was a political identity for most or all, then why would there be so much political disunity in muslim world. It would be all one big happy political entity, if not under central govt then certainly working as a group or bloc.

Forget muslim for a second, consider only arabs who are mostly muslim, 22 political countries, dont you think if there was common political identity, they would be one entity? Hindu was made a common identity of various linguistic groups in india (similar to europe). Yet they are largely one political entity. You can say they were part of the british empire, well so were most arabs, but they are not one country are they. Heck all were even under central administration for centuries before that, under Turkish ottomans. So whats holding them back from being politically united?? It can only be if they dont share the same political identity. Thats the only reason for having different nations.

Like I said muslim identity exists only in certain areas. Another one I thought of is in Bosnia, muslim political identity exists there. In most other places it is superceded by their ethnic identities or some other main political cause or grievance. That doesnt mean they are not muslims, they are muslim by faith, but politically telling them 'muslim-muslim' draws a blank on their mind as far as considering common political strategies and objectives. There are groups in each country which identify with muslim political cause but they are minority and tend to be extremists or violent. Thats why I chuckle everytime non-muslim make political generality of muslims, because its for the most part nonsense.

[peen1]

Pakistan should make itself strong....forget about this muslim brotherhood stuff for now. You make yourself strong then everyone will want you. Believe in your own abilities and not look for others for help.

The malays are smart people....if you go to them saying do business with us....because we are muslims....then they ask....... is that all you have to offer??

[Paguma Larvata]

lo ker lu gul. Abb bhenchod in Malaya Chinkoon/Chaptoon ke bhe per nikal ayee. I say ###### all of these so call muslim gandoo

[deltared075]

Malaysia only have around 50% of Islamic population. Most are Malay.

I'm a Malaysian Chinese and non-muslim, i even a free-thinker!

Malaysia is a Secular Islamic Country!

You know Malaysia have the most Holiday in the world?

If you have something to swear on Malaysian, swear on those muslim, count us the non-muslim out.

[Badhshah]

Pakistan, a country with the papulation of over 140m muslims and about 4/5m non-muslims, supposed to give jobs to those muslims who can't find jobs in their own countries but instead we are being humiliated by small countires like Kuwait and Malaysia. What the hell.....

As far as Pakistanis are concern, the poor people of Pakistan are being humiliated in thier own country by their own government so why one should make any cmoplain to other countries for the bad treatment of Pakistanis. There is no rule and regulation to rpotect Pakistani people at home or abroad. There are hundered of cunning travel agents who are sending people abroad on false documentations and the Pak gorvrment allowing them this evil act without any check or sense of protecting them. Why??????why these type of attrocities are allowed to rob our innocent people and in many casing let them into death traps.

But now we have Shaukat Aziz, I think, he'll make our image slightly better. All is not bleak. There is a hope. I think Pakistan's economy which is growing at 7% at the moment, if this treand countinues than very soon small countries like Malaysia and Kuwait will be begging for help from us, specially when they'll get kicking from some other countries just like Kuwait did when Saddam kicked their ass back in 1990.

[sfhussain]

If you have something to swear on Malaysian, swear on those muslim, count us the non-muslim out.

Delta - thanks for giving pause to the discussion - your post is appreciated.

For member posters - Chinese have been the best friends of Pakistan and time proven - unlike some other countries.

Edited by sfhussain, 10 January 2005 - 01:51 AM.

[MoThSmOkE]

As I said its a blessing in disguise. The GoP should be more concerned with developing its human resources rather than exporting it for petty remittances. We dont want capital flight. It would only hurt us in the long run.

[Badhshah]

Its typical Pakistanis response; if sanctions are applied on us we come out even stronger. That's all good I think for Pakistan.

Who would like doctors, engineers and software experts to leave the country? Not me.

Infact I'm suggeting that professional people should be banned from leaving the country to work abroad.

[happy_go_lucky]

Where's the proof of what you say? There is no backing for it.

It depends upon who you define "political identity".

Throughout history, every muslim ruler claimed himself to be the torch bearer of Islam to give himself legitimacy. If you are truly looking for a true "Islamic State", strictly speaking, you cant include Pakistan in that category, because it aint. What we have is a govt. whose official religion is Islam, just like Malaysia, thats it. Since the minorities are negligible,  few Islamic laws have been adopted.

[Protoculture]

A Malaysian Point of View

Feeling that Malaysia being bashed about never sits well to me. Besides, I'm a sucker for patriotic spirits!

Now, lets begin ......

Oh yea .... as i said all along & you can check my previous posts for verification. These malays are a bunch of snobs & retards. Why, i ask, do we have to sell our military equipment or train there personnel. Pakistan should give tit for tat. You're cooperative with us on outstanding issues & and so will we. But you act like a jackass then we'll put you in the cold.

Pakistan should suspend all military assistance to malaysia for this!

Frankly speaking, Muslim-Malays ain't retards. Muslim-Malays in ethnicity alone (which covers roughly the entire Malay Archipelago) formed a mojority & bulwark in Muslim umma. The Malacca Sultanate in 15th century was a beacon for Islam to spread like wildfire throughout the region.

Besides, Malaysia's defence trade with Pakistan is much larger than compared to India, upon which we only asked for bloody 'radar systems' since we gonna used the same fighter platform as India, the Su-30s. The FACT that the price is cheap is a bloody factor too. We've send Malaysian MG-29 pilots to train in India because of cost factors & India uses MiG 29 to, much like we send our Malaysian submariners to train with Pakistani Navy submariners since they utilised Agosta subs, which Malaysia will be acquiring soon.

You know what Dizasta76, you sounded like a bloody racist .. reminded me of those Nazis.

Most Pakistanis who are well educated are usually heading for the western market and do not even consider Malaysia as one of the country for migration.

This comes down to simple economics rather then anything else. More illegal means more trouble just like we want all Afghans out of our cities the Malaysians had enough of there share on illegal immigration.

This is mostly true. We can find top Muslim doctors, scientists, lawyers, businessmen all over Western world, whom most originated from Pakistan. The FACT that Pakistani students filled Physics study halls in major western universities are testament to that. But actually HOW MANY of them come back to contribute to mother country, Pakistan? Pakistan Govt. must work fast to keep these valuable manpower to slip from their grasp, or Pakistan will face a very SEVERE brain drain which could ultimately put Pakistan developement to a halt in the long run.

BTW, if you can looked down on somewhat 'troublesome' Afghans, can we be allow to do the same to some 'troublesome' illegals? With illegals nearly closing 2 million in Msia, crime rates has increase dramatically ...... this is NOT GOOD NEWS to Malaysia. Besides, with cheap labours from Muslim countries such as Indonesia & Bangladesh, we think its enuff for now .....

Mr & Mrs Badawi visited India for five days with a 70 member delegation and 4 ministers on Dec 20th. They signed 15 agreements related to trade space civil enginnering Pharmacuticals defence anti-terror legislation taxation treaties FTA related issues etc etc with India. India is one of Malaysias largest trading partner. Mr Badawi made a specific point on calling on Indians to work in Malaysia's IT industry.

You heard it from your own guys .... IT industry. India is currently NO. 1 in IT sector in South Asia, so there's nothing to scream about. Malaysia naturally went in for the kill because of ... again, CHEAPER costs.

Malaysian Govt has currently put a freeze for Indian cheap labour workers in food outlets (aka restaurants) industry in Malaysia as complaints pouring in as these 'overflow' of Indian migrants could threaten local industry among local Malaysians. FYI, most Indian migrants workers in Malaysia are Muslim-Tamils from India's state Tamil Nadu. Besides, even Malaysia have large Hindu Tamils communities living side by side with us Malays.

This is bad news, no Muslim country should allow these filthy urine breaths to clean their toilets let alone into their countries. I am certain if former Prime Minister 'Dr Muhatthir' was around this would not be the case.
Could it be that Malaysia see's India as a large market for it's goods?

How could you say that to thousands of Muslim-Tamils Indians working in Malaysia in one breath .... Yes, Malaysia sees India as the next potential markets much like China for our goods. From trade that formed our wealth, we can developed further, shining even brighter amongst Islamic nations as a model & successful Islamic nation.

Looks Like after the malaysian President Visit to India the Relations with pakistan has Changed  Wht was he Doing in The HAL(Hindu Aeronautics ltd)

Perhaps he was invited?

Don't you know that the Indians offered us the Dhruvs heli? Gagged

Lets hope we get the Rooivalks that the pussies ....

Even during Dr Mahatirs time India had good relations with India. Malaysians have never been that enthusiastic on Pakistans point of view on issues like Kashmir. Malaysia is ethnically and religously diverse country and it would not be in their nature to support any thing that wud encourage such tensions in their own country.

Thank you for understanding. However, we Muslim-Malays do sympathised with Kashmiris, but there's not much we can do. Our main policies is non interfrerence which has worked well.

Its India - Pakistan & Kashmir personal issues. We don't want to meddle too much. Did Pakistan Govt. meddle into Muslim Uyghurs plights in Xinjiang, China despite China's is Pakistan main allies? Did China interfered during Kashmir issue?

You get your answer there ...

Malaysia has a sizeable ethnic Indian population so obviously the Indian lobby would always be stronger than the Pakistani one. Personally, I think its a blessing in disguise. Exporting your manpower (educated/uneducated) would be hurting you in the longer run. Especially the educated ones, who'll be exported and after a few years apply for citizenship in the country of residence and then become naturalized citizens there. What does the country of origin get? Petty remittances on a monthly basis.

- See in case of Indonesia, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Philippines .... what they get in the end?

Malaysians do have sympathies for Pakistan. I remember when I used to go to Malaysia on a frequent basis, Malays used to ask me where am I from. When I told them Pakistan, the first few words that came out from their mouth was 'Nuclear Power'. Same with Indonesians. We are seen in a good light there.

Of course. We're still agog with the prowess of Pakistani pilots blowtorched Indian pilots arses during India-Pakistani conflicts, & their daredevil stunts in besting Israeli pilots during Arab-Israeli wars.

The FACT that Pakistani troops shed their blood alongside Malaysian troops saving those American bastards in Somalia is a testament to our goodwill. Our peacekeepers work shoulder to shoulder in many conflicts together. Lets maintain that, shall we?

In diplomacy, reciprocity is an accepted principle. So next time a Malaysian delegation arrives, refuse to meet them, downgrade their meeting to a lower level official, or better yet let them have a meeting with office boys and peons, with the excuse that higher officials had an urgent engagement. I am serious, thats the way to send a message.

Malaysia also had arrested and abused a bunch of Indians last year, India reacted angrily, they could take action because I think they had threatened to cancel malaysian imports and contracts. Malaysians turned into pussies.

By the way, most of the muslim world is bunch of pussies and cowards who are extremely scared of non muslim world. This is why people like mahathir and khameini and gaddafi and saddam, they are all talk and no action. malaysia is no exception.

Firstly, thru available diplomatic channels, why don't send in Pakistani ambassador to make appointments prior to the meeting, especially thru Malaysian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Interior Ministry guys are tough nuts to crack, better go to mellow & ever embracing Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Logical deduction & protocol, mate.

Hell, Pakistanis been pussies too by allowing CIA & FBI agents gallivanting in & around Pakistan. Even US commandoes also operating that lawless Northern Provinces.

How about Musharraf? Heard last time he was gonna step down as Pakistani Armed Force Chief, but what happen now? Even he turned to pussy when confronted by Bush.

Yeah right .... pot calling the kettle black ....

But now we have Shaukat Aziz, I think, he'll make our image slightly better. All is not bleak. There is a hope. I think Pakistan's economy which is growing at 7% at the moment, if this treand countinues than very soon small countries like Malaysia and Kuwait will be begging for help from us, specially when they'll get kicking from some other countries just like Kuwait did when Saddam kicked their ass back in 1990.

Malaysia have yet to be reduced to begging from anyone. During 1997-1998 economic crises, we turned blind-eye to IMF help by closing our doors to those money-lenders thugs. Look what Indonesia been reduced to after receiving IMF 'help'. Mahathir single handedly destroyed George Soros credibility & financial empire by pointing the single Jew-boy responsible for economic meltdown.

When Malaysia was having the 2nd Communists insurgencies, we don't asked for others help. Then again, we can take care of ourselves.

Well enuff for now. If some of you fuming with anger with my points, feel free to do so as I feel the same when reading some of others posts bashing my country ... BTW, I'm sorry if my remarks hurts anybody's feeling.

Then again, one of you say, tit for tat. I prefer tits & ass.

[Anza2004]

There is no need to fight. Why do we make mistake thinking that everyone will listen to us and follow us. Yes, we are growing but for the time being we are very small economically. We should not tie ourself with India in every regard. If we need to grow we need to forget about India and get strong ourselves. As far as malaysians, I have been to Malaysia and its a realy nice place. People atleast know Pakistan and were hospitable. So nothing against malaysians, if they feel they can make money with India, why should we be concerned. Good for them. We got good growth rate now and hopefully we will see results of our investment in 4 to 5 years. So Malaysians, see you soon guys.