DGMO, on Apr 20 2003, 03:14 PM, said:
fighterking,
Will u stop posting BS links.
Will u stop posting BS links.
1
1 votes
FC-1/JF-17 Thread: All Discussions Here
Started by
Top Gun 101
, Apr 17 2003 03:10 PM
4592 replies to this topic
#41
Rehman_21
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 03:48 PM
If you have a problem with that link, simply dont go there...
#42
Saeed Khan
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 03:51 PM
"as the country now makes every single component of this machine"
We can make each and every component of an F-16; including its engines?
I wish, I wish, and I wish again but wishing it alone is not going to do it.
Let me prepare some tea so that we may all wake up and start thinking clearly.
"If you have a problem with that link, simply dont go there..."
And I do exactly that and have been doing it since I grew up.
We can make each and every component of an F-16; including its engines?
I wish, I wish, and I wish again but wishing it alone is not going to do it.
Let me prepare some tea so that we may all wake up and start thinking clearly.
"If you have a problem with that link, simply dont go there..."
And I do exactly that and have been doing it since I grew up.
There is something very wrong with a country that deploys more than 50% of its Armed Forces to control an area roughly 7% of its size and inhabited by less than 1% of its population. No other country in the world utilizes such a large amount of its military resources to hold onto a land whose inhabitants don’t want to be a part of it. Sorwar
#43
sinopak
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 04:28 PM
It is amazing to me how little is know of Pakistani programs and capablity - this is a Pakistani defence forum and yet, we have so little credible information about Pakistani defence and it's capablity - WHy ?? We have tons of info on Chinese, Indian, Martian, but not Pakistani - this is a damn shame!!
I thik I will try to get some people to give us more info and to send us credible information.
I thik I will try to get some people to give us more info and to send us credible information.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog
#44
FlexRay
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 05:39 PM
I would not doubt this news as much
I have seen the working of AWC and PAC and they don't fall short of any international standards.
Their one main problem is funds but the F-16/Cobra/Other-US-Equipment rutt has been going on fo so
long I'm sure they have found work arouds or reverse engineered a lot of the F-16 parts.
I had also heard the Pak has stashed away smuggled F-16 spares that can see the PAF through for the next 5 years.
Even the company that I worked for was also thinking about getting cobra spare parts smuggled since the army is willing to pay good for it and it's hard cash
The following reverse engineered stuff I have seen with my own eyes at DESTO (Defence Science and Technology Organization)
Durandals - Anti Runway Bombs
PaveWays - Laser Guided Bombs
Mavericks - Optical Guided Missiles
AIM 9s - Sidewinders
ALL REVERSE ENGINEERED
Now this info won't be avaialbe on the web so I can't post the link these thing were shown to us when our college went on a visit but I'm sure there is much more
In response to this post if some bhindian starts jacking off I'll cut his little willy off so better not post your silly comments :red><
I have seen the working of AWC and PAC and they don't fall short of any international standards.
Their one main problem is funds but the F-16/Cobra/Other-US-Equipment rutt has been going on fo so
long I'm sure they have found work arouds or reverse engineered a lot of the F-16 parts.
I had also heard the Pak has stashed away smuggled F-16 spares that can see the PAF through for the next 5 years.
Even the company that I worked for was also thinking about getting cobra spare parts smuggled since the army is willing to pay good for it and it's hard cash
The following reverse engineered stuff I have seen with my own eyes at DESTO (Defence Science and Technology Organization)
Durandals - Anti Runway Bombs
PaveWays - Laser Guided Bombs
Mavericks - Optical Guided Missiles
AIM 9s - Sidewinders
ALL REVERSE ENGINEERED
Now this info won't be avaialbe on the web so I can't post the link these thing were shown to us when our college went on a visit but I'm sure there is much more
In response to this post if some bhindian starts jacking off I'll cut his little willy off so better not post your silly comments :red><
#45
Hellraiser006
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 05:44 PM
Quote
I thik I will try to get some people to give us more info and to send us credible information.
good luck to you sino.
your right there is more guess work and speculation in this forum than a bloody afternoon at the race-tracks!
some decent credible info would be useful. however, having said that, Pakistan has always operated under a shroud of secrecy with most of its defense related programmes. According to some people Pakistan had the capability to explode a nuclear weapon in the early 80's but no-one could say for sure until we actually did detonate the bombs.
The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammed. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he? " (Lamartine, Historie de la Turquie, Paris 1854, Vol. 11 pp. 276-2727)
"FOUR YEARS AFTER THE DEATH OF JUSTINIAN, A.D. 569, WAS BORN AT MAKKAH, IN ARABIA THE MAN WHO, OF ALL MEN EXERCISED THE GREATEST INFLUENCE UPON THE HUMAN RACE ... MOHAMMED ..." [John William Draper, M.D., LLD., in his "A History of the lntellectual Development of Europe",- London 1875.]
"I HAVE STUDIED HIM - THE WONDERFUL MAN - AND IN MY OPINION FAR FROM BEING AN ANTI-CHRIST, HE MUST BE CALLED THE SAVIOUR OF HUMANITY." [George Bernard Shaw, in "The Genuine Islam,- Vol. 1, No. 81936.]
Voltaire (on the Jews) :"They are, all of them, born with raging fanaticism in their hearts, just as the Bretons and the Germans are born with blond hair. I would not be in the least bit surprised if these people would not some day become deadly to the human race." (Lettres de Memmius a Ciceron, 1771)
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parliament] quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982
"FOUR YEARS AFTER THE DEATH OF JUSTINIAN, A.D. 569, WAS BORN AT MAKKAH, IN ARABIA THE MAN WHO, OF ALL MEN EXERCISED THE GREATEST INFLUENCE UPON THE HUMAN RACE ... MOHAMMED ..." [John William Draper, M.D., LLD., in his "A History of the lntellectual Development of Europe",- London 1875.]
"I HAVE STUDIED HIM - THE WONDERFUL MAN - AND IN MY OPINION FAR FROM BEING AN ANTI-CHRIST, HE MUST BE CALLED THE SAVIOUR OF HUMANITY." [George Bernard Shaw, in "The Genuine Islam,- Vol. 1, No. 81936.]
Voltaire (on the Jews) :"They are, all of them, born with raging fanaticism in their hearts, just as the Bretons and the Germans are born with blond hair. I would not be in the least bit surprised if these people would not some day become deadly to the human race." (Lettres de Memmius a Ciceron, 1771)
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parliament] quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982
#46
Robin_Cheng
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 10:31 PM
Hello, I am a Chinese too, I lives in South China, Pearl river delta zone which is famous for its manufacturing industry, I have been kept on watching this BBS long time, I will post my topics late on.
I appreicate the friendship between Pak. and CHN.
I appreicate the friendship between Pak. and CHN.
#47
WarCry
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 01:48 AM
Lulldapull, on Apr 18 2003, 09:38 AM, said:
I guess with each passing day the bullshiit on this AF forum has considerably subsided!
Thankyou Chinese su_27SK Flanker dude!
Why don't you tell these kids here that the Chinese flankers are its most capable aircraft!! And will be even if the J-10 or FC-1 come into service! these idiots don't seem to believe me, and are in a third world denial!!
Thankyou Chinese su_27SK Flanker dude!
Why don't you tell these kids here that the Chinese flankers are its most capable aircraft!! And will be even if the J-10 or FC-1 come into service! these idiots don't seem to believe me, and are in a third world denial!!
but i think the J-10 is more advance compared to the earlier versions of flankers tt the chinese received... in fact in some aspect its comparable to the SU-30mkk!
#48
loneboychina
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 04:34 AM
FC-1picture
FC-1
This is your plane. I think it can't better than F-16. But it is better than Indian plane.
FC-1
This is your plane. I think it can't better than F-16. But it is better than Indian plane.
#49
Hellraiser006
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 05:20 AM
is that image photoshoped or something?
i didn't think we would see the super-7 in Pakistani colours this early????
i didn't think we would see the super-7 in Pakistani colours this early????
The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammed. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he? " (Lamartine, Historie de la Turquie, Paris 1854, Vol. 11 pp. 276-2727)
"FOUR YEARS AFTER THE DEATH OF JUSTINIAN, A.D. 569, WAS BORN AT MAKKAH, IN ARABIA THE MAN WHO, OF ALL MEN EXERCISED THE GREATEST INFLUENCE UPON THE HUMAN RACE ... MOHAMMED ..." [John William Draper, M.D., LLD., in his "A History of the lntellectual Development of Europe",- London 1875.]
"I HAVE STUDIED HIM - THE WONDERFUL MAN - AND IN MY OPINION FAR FROM BEING AN ANTI-CHRIST, HE MUST BE CALLED THE SAVIOUR OF HUMANITY." [George Bernard Shaw, in "The Genuine Islam,- Vol. 1, No. 81936.]
Voltaire (on the Jews) :"They are, all of them, born with raging fanaticism in their hearts, just as the Bretons and the Germans are born with blond hair. I would not be in the least bit surprised if these people would not some day become deadly to the human race." (Lettres de Memmius a Ciceron, 1771)
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parliament] quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982
"FOUR YEARS AFTER THE DEATH OF JUSTINIAN, A.D. 569, WAS BORN AT MAKKAH, IN ARABIA THE MAN WHO, OF ALL MEN EXERCISED THE GREATEST INFLUENCE UPON THE HUMAN RACE ... MOHAMMED ..." [John William Draper, M.D., LLD., in his "A History of the lntellectual Development of Europe",- London 1875.]
"I HAVE STUDIED HIM - THE WONDERFUL MAN - AND IN MY OPINION FAR FROM BEING AN ANTI-CHRIST, HE MUST BE CALLED THE SAVIOUR OF HUMANITY." [George Bernard Shaw, in "The Genuine Islam,- Vol. 1, No. 81936.]
Voltaire (on the Jews) :"They are, all of them, born with raging fanaticism in their hearts, just as the Bretons and the Germans are born with blond hair. I would not be in the least bit surprised if these people would not some day become deadly to the human race." (Lettres de Memmius a Ciceron, 1771)
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parliament] quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982
#51
PhrozenFlame
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 05:33 AM
The officials said that the upcoming Super-7 would be the main fighter aircraft of Pakistan in near future and it would be formally inducted into the air force after five to six years. From technical aspect, the Super-7 will be superior than the F-16.
http://www.nation.co.../main/top13.asp
Well..a new twist in the story of FC-1 ..Game over PAF..game over..noow we're screwed for sure! God bless PAF
http://www.nation.co.../main/top13.asp
Well..a new twist in the story of FC-1 ..Game over PAF..game over..noow we're screwed for sure! God bless PAF
#53
Shanghai Knight
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 05:46 AM
PhrozenFlame, on Apr 21 2003, 05:33 AM, said:
The officials said that the upcoming Super-7 would be the main fighter aircraft of Pakistan in near future and it would be formally inducted into the air force after five to six years. From technical aspect, the Super-7 will be superior than the F-16.
http://www.nation.co.../main/top13.asp
Well..a new twist in the story of FC-1 ..Game over PAF..game over..noow we're screwed for sure! God bless PAF
http://www.nation.co.../main/top13.asp
Well..a new twist in the story of FC-1 ..Game over PAF..game over..noow we're screwed for sure! God bless PAF
I do remember reading on the Internet a few months ago that the PLAAF has rejected this aircraft; however, the PRC will manufacture it to uphold its promise to Pakistan.
Indeed, I can see that this aircraft does hold a lot of promise!!
If it's better than the F-16, why the heck does the PLAAF not want it? Second, if it is indeed better, than it is probably ahead of the earlier versions of the F-16, of the types that fly with the PAF.
Folks: Please do note that I am not trying to antagonise anyone here. Peace O:)
#55
Eagle
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 06:38 AM
The report does not says that the induction will be "completed" in 5-6 years. Infact the report says that Super-7 will be "formally inducted" into the air force "AFTER" five to six years.
Every new fighter takes lot of time for testing before induction. Hundreds of testing hours and several dozen test flights need to be done to certify it's capabilities. If some flaw is discovered during the testing, then it takes even more time to fix it. Super-7 is no exception. It's some patriotic people who believe that FC-1 will fly this june and and finish all it's test flights in about one year, well it doesn't happens that way.
Every new fighter takes lot of time for testing before induction. Hundreds of testing hours and several dozen test flights need to be done to certify it's capabilities. If some flaw is discovered during the testing, then it takes even more time to fix it. Super-7 is no exception. It's some patriotic people who believe that FC-1 will fly this june and and finish all it's test flights in about one year, well it doesn't happens that way.
#56
defender2000
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 06:42 AM
flame
I think you are not that wrong, the word of mouth from PAF I have heard is, 2012-2015 the formal induction of FC!.... after serial production and completion of trials.
I mean 2012 will be the final and formal induction of FC1 in PAF....
now since I have no Idea about the whole project details...
the level of progress
the logistics and channels involved
the amount and flow of finance
the teams and middlemen
etc etc etc... I am in no position to say yes or no to this date....
so I am as confused and speachless as anybody. :ermm
I think you are not that wrong, the word of mouth from PAF I have heard is, 2012-2015 the formal induction of FC!.... after serial production and completion of trials.
I mean 2012 will be the final and formal induction of FC1 in PAF....
now since I have no Idea about the whole project details...
the level of progress
the logistics and channels involved
the amount and flow of finance
the teams and middlemen
etc etc etc... I am in no position to say yes or no to this date....
so I am as confused and speachless as anybody. :ermm
Ignorence and prejudice is our biggest enemy,
try to be understanding and considerate for a change.
Live and let live.
try to be understanding and considerate for a change.
Live and let live.
#57
DGMO
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 07:28 AM
BlackEagle u son of a ##### don't start a flame war and cut down on the swearing. Whats it to u whom i speak to ? All because i #####-slapped u in the Sugg & Comments forum and u ran like the mofo u are. Whats wrong, still upset . I just been reading your illogical BS everywhere on this forum and its u who should stfu.
Mods take note.
U chat absolute $hit in every single one of ur posts and have been doing so since u came to this forum.
P.S fighterking, the reason for that post was the link would'nt work, i tried it twice and i got the 'page cannot be displayed' BS. Even 'Phrozenflame' in another topic couldnt view the link as i'm sure many others couldnt. And after reading the initial link which was just a headline in urdu, i thought u were like 'Companion' who also posts dud links. I was gonna post an apology but my net was down. I apologise now.
. I just been reading your illogical BS everywhere on this forum and its u who should stfu.Mods take note.
U chat absolute $hit in every single one of ur posts and have been doing so since u came to this forum.
P.S fighterking, the reason for that post was the link would'nt work, i tried it twice and i got the 'page cannot be displayed' BS. Even 'Phrozenflame' in another topic couldnt view the link as i'm sure many others couldnt. And after reading the initial link which was just a headline in urdu, i thought u were like 'Companion' who also posts dud links. I was gonna post an apology but my net was down. I apologise now.
--------- Director-General Military Operations ---------
#58
anwarma
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 07:31 AM
Eagle has a good point, even SU-27 when it was at prototype stage tooks
years of testing before being commmsioned Soviet(now Russian) Armed Forces.
Read the following article about SU-27 story, a very interesting read
Su-27:The history
PEACE!
years of testing before being commmsioned Soviet(now Russian) Armed Forces.
Read the following article about SU-27 story, a very interesting read
Su-27:The history
PEACE!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Surprise your enemy at all cost.........
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Surprise your enemy at all cost.........
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#59
Top Gun 101
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 07:37 AM
platinum786 said:
I think you are under-estimating the performance of the radars that are actually being offered as opposed to the radars that are not being offered. The Grifo S7 is not the same as the Grifo 7PG or earlier Grifo 7, in fact the S7 is a suffix for Super 7 indicating that it's been tailored specifically for the FC-1. The Grifo S7 is a development of the Grifo M3 which is already installed on ROSE I Mirage III/5 which is based on the AN/APG-68 of F-16C/D.
The Thales TC-400 is basically a modular downsized version of the French RDM radar on the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2, & was promoted for the FC-1 but the PAF prefers the Grifo S7 radar. The Grifo S7 radar is grossly under-estimated, & the TC-400 was probably developed because the French felt that the PAF would (or would seriously) consider it alongside the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2. It would have made sense from a logistical point of view seeing how they could handle the same systems & save on costs but the problem is, no Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 sale eventuated.
I doubt that the CAPTOR radar can fit into the small nose of the FC-1. I also doubt that it's for sale & even if a miniture version is, then it's likely to be of degraded performance.
USAM Posted:
The RD-93 is a fine powerplant, & I think that the FC-1 should lose some weight. It has an empty weight of nearly 14,000 lb & this should be reduced to less than 12,000 lb if possible even if includes using composites. Trust me, the engine is fine, & new versions will be developed. A more powerful engine just consumes more fuel. It's too late to re-adapt the FC-1 for the M-88 or EJ-200.
Flanker30MKI Posted:
Good point, however, I think that a combination of South African & French systems will be selected just as for the ROSE Mirages. I would opt for Ukrainain systems as they would have a good idea of the performance of Russian SAMs.
As for the internal gun, I think that the FC-1 has one.
USAM Posted:
Yup, Pakistan does, you do!
The Grifo 7PG you mean??? No, it's done, but weapons compatibility trails have to be completed. The Grifo 7PG is superior to the Grifo 7 in many respects.
No! The Grifo 7 & Grifo 7PG are designed to fit into the noses of the F-7P & F-7PG, they're too small, whereas the Grifo 2000 is desgined for F-16MLU programmes. Just look at Itally's F-16s, they're set to get the Grifo 2000 when it is completed.
Quote
there are litterally loads of modern new radars they could use but they'll end up with crappy grifo 7.
I think you are under-estimating the performance of the radars that are actually being offered as opposed to the radars that are not being offered. The Grifo S7 is not the same as the Grifo 7PG or earlier Grifo 7, in fact the S7 is a suffix for Super 7 indicating that it's been tailored specifically for the FC-1. The Grifo S7 is a development of the Grifo M3 which is already installed on ROSE I Mirage III/5 which is based on the AN/APG-68 of F-16C/D.
Quote
Look we could easily get the radar in the Rafale or the Mirage 2000-9 or the one in the Eurofighter, all radars which can turn an air war, sure tehy'lll cost top dollar but what is the point of getting an inferior plane.
The Thales TC-400 is basically a modular downsized version of the French RDM radar on the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2, & was promoted for the FC-1 but the PAF prefers the Grifo S7 radar. The Grifo S7 radar is grossly under-estimated, & the TC-400 was probably developed because the French felt that the PAF would (or would seriously) consider it alongside the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2. It would have made sense from a logistical point of view seeing how they could handle the same systems & save on costs but the problem is, no Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 sale eventuated.
Quote
Imagine the FC-1 armed with the Captor Radar, that can detect at 200KM, thats the flankers edge gone isn't it.
I doubt that the CAPTOR radar can fit into the small nose of the FC-1. I also doubt that it's for sale & even if a miniture version is, then it's likely to be of degraded performance.
USAM Posted:
Quote
I hope Super 7 have more powerful engine.
The RD-93 is a fine powerplant, & I think that the FC-1 should lose some weight. It has an empty weight of nearly 14,000 lb & this should be reduced to less than 12,000 lb if possible even if includes using composites. Trust me, the engine is fine, & new versions will be developed. A more powerful engine just consumes more fuel. It's too late to re-adapt the FC-1 for the M-88 or EJ-200.
Flanker30MKI Posted:
Quote
I'm more concerned about the ECM. And I hope it has an internal gun.
Good point, however, I think that a combination of South African & French systems will be selected just as for the ROSE Mirages. I would opt for Ukrainain systems as they would have a good idea of the performance of Russian SAMs.
As for the internal gun, I think that the FC-1 has one.
USAM Posted:
Quote
WE make the griffo 7 in pak under licence.
Yup, Pakistan does, you do!
Quote
But Super Giffo 7 is different and we do not make it and infact even Italian company has not finished the development of Super Griffo 7.
The Grifo 7PG you mean??? No, it's done, but weapons compatibility trails have to be completed. The Grifo 7PG is superior to the Grifo 7 in many respects.
Quote
But replacement for F 16 is Griffo 2000 so i think Griffo 7 will be more adavance then Griffo 2000.
No! The Grifo 7 & Grifo 7PG are designed to fit into the noses of the F-7P & F-7PG, they're too small, whereas the Grifo 2000 is desgined for F-16MLU programmes. Just look at Itally's F-16s, they're set to get the Grifo 2000 when it is completed.
"We were told the purpose of the mission was to bring in the weapon but it's not the weapon it's the fighter pilot inside"
~Zechs Marquise (AC 195) Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
~Zechs Marquise (AC 195) Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
#60
BlackEagle
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 07:42 AM
DGMO, on Apr 21 2003, 07:28 AM, said:
BlackEagle u son of a ##### don't start a flame war and cut down on the swearing. Whats it to u whom i speak to ? All because i #####-slapped u in the Sugg & Comments forum and u ran like the mofo u are. Whats wrong, still upset . I just been reading your illogical BS everywhere on this forum and its u who should stfu.
Mods take note.
U chat absolute $hit in every single one of ur posts and have been doing so since u came to this forum.
P.S fighterking, the reason for that post was the link would'nt work, i tried it twice and i got the 'page cannot be displayed' BS. And after reading the initial link which was just a headline in urdu, i thought u were like 'Companion' who also posts dud links. I was gonna post an apology but my net was down. I apologise now.
. I just been reading your illogical BS everywhere on this forum and its u who should stfu.Mods take note.
U chat absolute $hit in every single one of ur posts and have been doing so since u came to this forum.
P.S fighterking, the reason for that post was the link would'nt work, i tried it twice and i got the 'page cannot be displayed' BS. And after reading the initial link which was just a headline in urdu, i thought u were like 'Companion' who also posts dud links. I was gonna post an apology but my net was down. I apologise now.
phen chod who the ###### r u looking at my posts and rating them/????? who ##### gave u the right to do it. i aint upset or othign i thinkk its u whos upset of not being a mod in the forum :unigrad phudi yaun kay what can mods so to me ban me at the most????? even if they do i can ##### come back and be a pain in ur ##### ass . and again i advise u not rate anyones post and dont tell anyone what to do.. ok my freind?? and forget about being a mob in this forum
thats only one of ur dreams now just be normal like all other members and if u dont like someones post keep quite and ignore em. does taht ring any bells? han i wont call u or do anything unless u ##### call me or mess with me in future. u try and ###### me off i take a ###### out of u no matter wot happens . u stay out of my way and i will saty outta urs
not a bad deal is it. u stop rating my post i stop calling u. if u wanna be friends fine. if dont then ##### face it and dont go round telling mods blahhh blahh blahh cuz they aint doing jack to me they most them ######## are gonna do is ip ban me. thats not a prob for me either AGAIN U STAY OUT OF MY WAY I STAY OUT OF URS. AND THIS WAY WE CAN FRIENDS
NOW ITS UR CHOICE M8.
#61
Top Gun 101
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 07:45 AM
I was a strong advocate of delaying the FC-1 so that it's performance can be dramatically improved. I even advocated inducting the Mirage F-1 (with the South African features of the upgrade such as the RD-33) & the electronics suite envisaged for the FC-1 (ie: Grifo S7 radar etc) & weapons systems. The Super Mirage F-1s would have given the PAF the breathing space it needed so that the FC-1 could be delayed much longer. I mean, imagine if the PAF had 80 Super Mirage F-1 with BVR & WVR plus excellent prescion strike capability & ground crew already farmiliar with the FC-1's powerplant! For the pilots, the FC-1's intended flight systems & cockpit layout would be the same as for the FC-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:hitwall
(
:megalol
SnatnaGaGaBaGa>
:hitwall
( :megalol
SnatnaGaGaBaGa>
"We were told the purpose of the mission was to bring in the weapon but it's not the weapon it's the fighter pilot inside"
~Zechs Marquise (AC 195) Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
~Zechs Marquise (AC 195) Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
#62
Lulldapull
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 07:45 AM
bukvass image! It is an F-7 bastardised to look like an FC-1!
Note the mig-21's drop tank on it! ...only the F-7 carries that supersonic tank, and we all know that the FC-1 hasn't flown yet! ..So another chootiya attempt by another Cheena to fool us!
Note the mig-21's drop tank on it!
...only the F-7 carries that supersonic tank, and we all know that the FC-1 hasn't flown yet! ..So another chootiya attempt by another Cheena to fool us!
#63
DGMO
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 07:50 AM
What a hypocritical SOB u are. Ooooh and stop the threats, i'm quaking in my boots. Boy your proper hard arent u ? Like fukk u are.
U interfere in my posts in this topic, and post obscenities and blame it all on me. if u were so right last time, why did the mods move your BS post ?
Go fukk yourself, u piece of #### and practice your english while you're away, because it stinks. Can't make sense of any of the crap u write 'Mr Illiterate'.
Just stay outta my way and don't get involved with who i speak or reply to.
U interfere in my posts in this topic, and post obscenities and blame it all on me. if u were so right last time, why did the mods move your BS post ?
Go fukk yourself, u piece of #### and practice your english while you're away, because it stinks. Can't make sense of any of the crap u write 'Mr Illiterate'.
Just stay outta my way and don't get involved with who i speak or reply to.
--------- Director-General Military Operations ---------
#64
Lulldapull
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 07:52 AM
Shut up Top gun!. Always has stupid suggestions. 
Yeah your used Mirage F-1 will be a good match for IAF fulcrums or Flankers???Dumnb ass.
Also by the time 2010- 2015, the original specificatiion of the airrcraft would be obsolete! it should have been inducted yeaterday! :hitwall
By 2015 the world would have the F-22 types prevalent! not the 80's F-16 technology! PLAAF doesn't want it because tey are manufacturing the flankers! Why would they want the FC-1???? Whyy????
Yeah your used Mirage F-1 will be a good match for IAF fulcrums or Flankers???Dumnb ass. Also by the time 2010- 2015, the original specificatiion of the airrcraft would be obsolete! it should have been inducted yeaterday! :hitwall
By 2015 the world would have the F-22 types prevalent! not the 80's F-16 technology!
PLAAF doesn't want it because tey are manufacturing the flankers! Why would they want the FC-1???? Whyy????
#65
defender2000
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 07:57 AM
:jumpgreen: :jumpgreen: :Dbanana :Dbanana hey look some ass holes getting emotional again
:Dbanana :Dbanana
Ignorence and prejudice is our biggest enemy,
try to be understanding and considerate for a change.
Live and let live.
try to be understanding and considerate for a change.
Live and let live.
#66
DGMO
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BRIGADIER
Posted 21 April 2003 - 08:00 AM
Call yourself an ##### boy, don't call me one.
--------- Director-General Military Operations ---------
#67
BlackEagle
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 08:00 AM
DGMO, on Apr 21 2003, 07:50 AM, said:
What a hypocritical SOB u are. Ooooh and stop the threats, i'm quaking in my boots. Boy your proper hard arent u ? Like fukk u are.
U interfere in my posts in this topic, and post obscenities and blame it all on me. if u were so right last time, why did the mods move your BS post ?
Go fukk yourself, u piece of #### and practice your english while you're away, because it stinks. Can't make sense of any of the crap u write 'Mr Illiterate'.
Just stay outta my way and don't get involved with who i speak or reply to.
U interfere in my posts in this topic, and post obscenities and blame it all on me. if u were so right last time, why did the mods move your BS post ?
Go fukk yourself, u piece of #### and practice your english while you're away, because it stinks. Can't make sense of any of the crap u write 'Mr Illiterate'.
Just stay outta my way and don't get involved with who i speak or reply to.
u go screw urself dont tell me wot to do m8. and be a normal member cuz again U R NOT THE MODERATOR get the point?
now im not gonna waste anymore of my precious time talking to you cuz u r just simply not worth it
goodbye ONCE MORE REMEMBER DO NOT TELL ANYONE/RATE THEIR AND SPECIALLY MYPOST IF U DO I WILL COME IN UR WAY. :<Firemad ::devill
#68
defender2000
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 08:00 AM
Lulldapull, on Apr 21 2003, 07:45 AM, said:
bukvass image! It is an F-7 bastardised to look like an FC-1!
Note the mig-21's drop tank on it! ...only the F-7 carries that supersonic tank, and we all know that the FC-1 hasn't flown yet! ..So another chootiya attempt by another Cheena to fool us!
Note the mig-21's drop tank on it!
...only the F-7 carries that supersonic tank, and we all know that the FC-1 hasn't flown yet! ..So another chootiya attempt by another Cheena to fool us! they know PAF is desparate and we have shown it in our forum, so they make up Photoshopped images and laugh at our posts... :hitwall :hitwall
Ignorence and prejudice is our biggest enemy,
try to be understanding and considerate for a change.
Live and let live.
try to be understanding and considerate for a change.
Live and let live.
#69
DGMO
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BRIGADIER
Posted 21 April 2003 - 08:03 AM
Yeah yeah, blah blah.
Go get a life kid, i'll respond to whoever's post in which ever way i like. Are u gonna stop me ? u can't even write english, what the hell are u gonna do .
Stop bringing up things that happened some 2 weeks ago, i cleared things up in that thread. If u can't get over a bit of hometruths then stop moaning.
Go get a life kid, i'll respond to whoever's post in which ever way i like. Are u gonna stop me ? u can't even write english, what the hell are u gonna do
. Stop bringing up things that happened some 2 weeks ago, i cleared things up in that thread. If u can't get over a bit of hometruths then stop moaning.
--------- Director-General Military Operations ---------
#70
defender2000
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 08:09 AM
this top lunn is a complete moron,
being rejected from to Arab Airforces, he is giving his unwanted suggestions for PAF, maybe he has a career in Afghan Airforce?
being rejected from to Arab Airforces, he is giving his unwanted suggestions for PAF, maybe he has a career in Afghan Airforce?
Ignorence and prejudice is our biggest enemy,
try to be understanding and considerate for a change.
Live and let live.
try to be understanding and considerate for a change.
Live and let live.
#71
Lulldapull
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GENERAL
Posted 21 April 2003 - 08:21 AM
Oh yaar Defender! iss jahl khotay key bukvass son son kar mairay sur main durd ho gya hae! I mean khud keh raha hae, that why PLAAF doesn't wanna accept FC-1! So he knows it ain't gonna be as good as the Flankers! he knows it! Magar phir bukvass!
Also Gee yae top gunn da putar iss dey bhund wich chappaidaan layan 1 kunjar da putar thinks that we are stupid!
Khud morrocan hae, aur phir he says he is trying for Libyan Egyptian and Syrian AF's! like the biggest thing for joing any fukkan AF is you have to be "that" country's citizen!
...Iss ullu da putthay nay Jahl Ummah ( Consisting of Egypt Morrocco, libya Syria among others )! banaee huey hae apnay dimagh kay undar! I think mainay Webby say baat karnee hae to get rid of all these junkee's from here!
God-damn lying SOBs!
#72 Guest_kiki_*
Guest_kiki_*
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 08:42 AM
hello guyz , im a chinese n im live in tokyo now. here is my opinions. Maybe FC1 is not the best choice for Pak in the present time ,but nobody should leave out such facts that Pak will get a great development in their own aerotechnics field through FC1 project, i think Pak will make much account of this , to have capability to manufacture their own fighters in the future. As you know, china is helping Pak to upbuild their own high-tech tank project. And i think FC1 would have capability to counterwork india's SU-30 at least , cuz china will never allow india to win in Pak-india conflict. And no doubt with that china will export J-10 to Pak at once if FC1 was not good eoough to counterwork india's SU-30, why not? theres nothing we need to retain ,even nuclear technology.
#73
Lulldapull
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 08:55 AM
Here dude! Let me run down the pro's and Con's for you.
Pro's:
As you say the transfer of technology and manufacturing expertise will be most beneficial to Pakistan!
PAF needs something urgent as no one else can supply any fighter even in the range of the FC-1/ F-16 Block 15 ADF!!
Finally the BVR capability will come! ( Even though it will be 10 years too late )!
The FC-1 will fill a very badly needed high tech aircraft niche in the PAF! there are only 30 or so F-16 A's/ B's ( Without BVR capability ) left to tackle the might of the IAF's frontline high tech 4th generation aircraft which now number close to 200!
Cons
As I said, it is 10 years too late! it should have been induced at the same time as the Chung Kuo! As it will be a very very similar aircraft!
It is purported that it will be able to launch the SD-10 BVR missile, but that's all up in the air currently! Nothing solid dude. Not even the first flight.
It is expensive at 15 million a piece. considering PAF can get the much more capable/ proven Su-27 from Ukraine, at 8-10 million a piece.
For China it is not atractive as they are concentrating full force on the J-11 series! You can see the FC-1 and J-10 have been neglected, as once again their original specifications have been largely superceded by the J-11! ....Hence the coining of the series name J-11! ...It is quite obvious dude.
I think I have quite clearly expressed the reality here. Although it is just my opinion, and I am entitled to it.
Also Kikki! Not to belittle China or anybody else, but I just don't have much faith in the rhetoric and propaganda that the J-10 or FC-1 will be up to snuff, fully keeping China's existing R&D and manufacturing expertise and engineering into perspective! It will not be easy for the Chinese to make something even like the Flanker, and with all reports pointing to the bullshiit news like the J1-0 will be superior to the Flanker seris, I think is a bunch of rubbish (!) ...We'd be lucky to see it inducted in sufficient numbers to justify its concept! Just like the many many failed past experiments. We don't wanna go there Kiki! But you get the point.........
Pro's:
As you say the transfer of technology and manufacturing expertise will be most beneficial to Pakistan!
PAF needs something urgent as no one else can supply any fighter even in the range of the FC-1/ F-16 Block 15 ADF!!
Finally the BVR capability will come! ( Even though it will be 10 years too late )!
The FC-1 will fill a very badly needed high tech aircraft niche in the PAF! there are only 30 or so F-16 A's/ B's ( Without BVR capability ) left to tackle the might of the IAF's frontline high tech 4th generation aircraft which now number close to 200!
Cons
As I said, it is 10 years too late! it should have been induced at the same time as the Chung Kuo! As it will be a very very similar aircraft!
It is purported that it will be able to launch the SD-10 BVR missile, but that's all up in the air currently! Nothing solid dude. Not even the first flight.
It is expensive at 15 million a piece. considering PAF can get the much more capable/ proven Su-27 from Ukraine, at 8-10 million a piece.
For China it is not atractive as they are concentrating full force on the J-11 series! You can see the FC-1 and J-10 have been neglected, as once again their original specifications have been largely superceded by the J-11!
....Hence the coining of the series name J-11! ...It is quite obvious dude.I think I have quite clearly expressed the reality here. Although it is just my opinion, and I am entitled to it.
Also Kikki! Not to belittle China or anybody else, but I just don't have much faith in the rhetoric and propaganda that the J-10 or FC-1 will be up to snuff, fully keeping China's existing R&D and manufacturing expertise and engineering into perspective! It will not be easy for the Chinese to make something even like the Flanker, and with all reports pointing to the bullshiit news like the J1-0 will be superior to the Flanker seris, I think is a bunch of rubbish (!) ...We'd be lucky to see it inducted in sufficient numbers to justify its concept! Just like the many many failed past experiments. We don't wanna go there Kiki! But you get the point.........
#74
DGMO
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 08:56 AM
Hi kiki and welcome,
Well most importantly it'll give us a fighter better than anything we currently have in our inventory and in substantial numbers.
Hopefully as some of it will surely be manufactured in Pakistan it'll create much needed jobs, and in all the learning process will be beneficial in the long term.
Well most importantly it'll give us a fighter better than anything we currently have in our inventory and in substantial numbers.
Hopefully as some of it will surely be manufactured in Pakistan it'll create much needed jobs, and in all the learning process will be beneficial in the long term.
--------- Director-General Military Operations ---------
#75
Baaz
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 10:56 AM
Pakistan will get the foundations an aerospace industry.
#76
Rehman_21
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 12:31 PM
Kids, stop playing the blame game... it doesn't help.
#77
PAF Shaheen
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BRIGADIER
Posted 21 April 2003 - 12:57 PM
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE. MODERATORS PLEASE TAKE ACTION. This is more a HOLLIGAN FORUM than a military one. Come on guys, pull urself together and please do not degrade urself to each others level. I am not the boss here, hek i am only a lieutenant (cant even spell this right?). I know some people keep shitting around, but we should not do the same instead show some dignity and come up with sane answers.
AQAL BARI KAY BHAANS?
:hitwall
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Back to the Future...oops, BACK TO THE TOPIC.
Guys, one thing i never understand. We people who dont even fully know the ABC of Defence, especially Pakistan's defence, keep expecting and pretend as well that we know everything going inside and out in Pakistan and its defence. We will have to give up this attitude because we are not the all-knowers.
Ok, what is wrong with the statement that Pakistan now makes every single component of the F-16. Someone objected by saying "even the engines? (w00t) ". One must not forget that Pakistan is fully over-hauling (as said by the report) the machines, not building brand new. What they do is that they replace the parts of the F-16, including the engine OFCOURSE, with newer (reverse engineered ones?) time and again.This is my guess. So whats wrong with the statement?
Again, we dont know everything and we never will. We can just speculate and make good educated guesses. Thats all, isnt it?
AQAL BARI KAY BHAANS?
:hitwall -----------------------------------------------------------------
Back to the Future...oops, BACK TO THE TOPIC.
Guys, one thing i never understand. We people who dont even fully know the ABC of Defence, especially Pakistan's defence, keep expecting and pretend as well that we know everything going inside and out in Pakistan and its defence. We will have to give up this attitude because we are not the all-knowers.
Ok, what is wrong with the statement that Pakistan now makes every single component of the F-16. Someone objected by saying "even the engines? (w00t) ". One must not forget that Pakistan is fully over-hauling (as said by the report) the machines, not building brand new. What they do is that they replace the parts of the F-16, including the engine OFCOURSE, with newer (reverse engineered ones?) time and again.This is my guess. So whats wrong with the statement?
Again, we dont know everything and we never will. We can just speculate and make good educated guesses. Thats all, isnt it?
"For the ISI boys, who had actually done that fine job, I could only give each one of them a pat on his back and gave them their next assignments. None of us looked back. In the ISI, every new sun rises with new problems and new challenges. As a matter of fact, the sun never sets in the ISI."
Brig. Syed A.I Tirmazi, SI(M)
Director Joint Counter-Intelligence Bureau
Directorate General Inter-Services Intelligence
Brig. Syed A.I Tirmazi, SI(M)
Director Joint Counter-Intelligence Bureau
Directorate General Inter-Services Intelligence
#78
PakiPatriot
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 01:03 PM
The most important reason is that it will create the base we need for our own Aerospace Industry and it will allow us R&D in this field
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#79
WarCry
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 01:29 PM
Lulldapull, on Apr 21 2003, 08:55 AM, said:
Here dude! Let me run down the pro's and Con's for you.
Pro's:
As you say the transfer of technology and manufacturing expertise will be most beneficial to Pakistan!
PAF needs something urgent as no one else can supply any fighter even in the range of the FC-1/ F-16 Block 15 ADF!!
Finally the BVR capability will come! ( Even though it will be 10 years too late )!
The FC-1 will fill a very badly needed high tech aircraft niche in the PAF! there are only 30 or so F-16 A's/ B's ( Without BVR capability ) left to tackle the might of the IAF's frontline high tech 4th generation aircraft which now number close to 200!
Cons
As I said, it is 10 years too late! it should have been induced at the same time as the Chung Kuo! As it will be a very very similar aircraft!
It is purported that it will be able to launch the SD-10 BVR missile, but that's all up in the air currently! Nothing solid dude. Not even the first flight.
It is expensive at 15 million a piece. considering PAF can get the much more capable/ proven Su-27 from Ukraine, at 8-10 million a piece.
For China it is not atractive as they are concentrating full force on the J-11 series! You can see the FC-1 and J-10 have been neglected, as once again their original specifications have been largely superceded by the J-11! ....Hence the coining of the series name J-11! ...It is quite obvious dude.
I think I have quite clearly expressed the reality here. Although it is just my opinion, and I am entitled to it.
Also Kikki! Not to belittle China or anybody else, but I just don't have much faith in the rhetoric and propaganda that the J-10 or FC-1 will be up to snuff, fully keeping China's existing R&D and manufacturing expertise and engineering into perspective! It will not be easy for the Chinese to make something even like the Flanker, and with all reports pointing to the bullshiit news like the J1-0 will be superior to the Flanker seris, I think is a bunch of rubbish (!) ...We'd be lucky to see it inducted in sufficient numbers to justify its concept! Just like the many many failed past experiments. We don't wanna go there Kiki! But you get the point.........
Pro's:
As you say the transfer of technology and manufacturing expertise will be most beneficial to Pakistan!
PAF needs something urgent as no one else can supply any fighter even in the range of the FC-1/ F-16 Block 15 ADF!!
Finally the BVR capability will come! ( Even though it will be 10 years too late )!
The FC-1 will fill a very badly needed high tech aircraft niche in the PAF! there are only 30 or so F-16 A's/ B's ( Without BVR capability ) left to tackle the might of the IAF's frontline high tech 4th generation aircraft which now number close to 200!
Cons
As I said, it is 10 years too late! it should have been induced at the same time as the Chung Kuo! As it will be a very very similar aircraft!
It is purported that it will be able to launch the SD-10 BVR missile, but that's all up in the air currently! Nothing solid dude. Not even the first flight.
It is expensive at 15 million a piece. considering PAF can get the much more capable/ proven Su-27 from Ukraine, at 8-10 million a piece.
For China it is not atractive as they are concentrating full force on the J-11 series! You can see the FC-1 and J-10 have been neglected, as once again their original specifications have been largely superceded by the J-11!
....Hence the coining of the series name J-11! ...It is quite obvious dude.I think I have quite clearly expressed the reality here. Although it is just my opinion, and I am entitled to it.
Also Kikki! Not to belittle China or anybody else, but I just don't have much faith in the rhetoric and propaganda that the J-10 or FC-1 will be up to snuff, fully keeping China's existing R&D and manufacturing expertise and engineering into perspective! It will not be easy for the Chinese to make something even like the Flanker, and with all reports pointing to the bullshiit news like the J1-0 will be superior to the Flanker seris, I think is a bunch of rubbish (!) ...We'd be lucky to see it inducted in sufficient numbers to justify its concept! Just like the many many failed past experiments. We don't wanna go there Kiki! But you get the point.........
aerodynamically, J-10 is considered a modern design with a powerful engine... wat is not known is its avionics package, as tt will determine whether its worth investing in... considering the airframe is up to standard...
of course J-10 is a light aircraft while flankers are heavy type fighters, therefore certain aspects like combat radius, payload, radar range, etc will be superior for the flankers!
#80
scorpion
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Posted 21 April 2003 - 02:03 PM
oh its very old image..........
i have seen this image atleast three yrs ago.............and in the same position, i also have seen F-7p photo ....perhaps anyone has tried to change it to make s-7......but watsoever its a old image...
and Hellraiser006....
for ur kind info ...there are few real pix..one can also seen at www.sinodefence.com at FC-1 section of fc-1 in Pakistani colors..............
i have seen this image atleast three yrs ago.............and in the same position, i also have seen F-7p photo ....perhaps anyone has tried to change it to make s-7......but watsoever its a old image...
and Hellraiser006....
for ur kind info ...there are few real pix..one can also seen at www.sinodefence.com at FC-1 section of fc-1 in Pakistani colors..............
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