I personally cannot understand why the general staff is dragging its feet with regard to this issue. The choice should be obvious enough.
Grifo S7 radar (finalised)
MAESTRO nav/attack system (not finalised)
SD-10 for BVR-AAM requirement (very likely)
PL-9C for WVR-AAM (not yet decided, but very likely that future versions will also be used)
Air to ground weapons haven't been finalised, but it's likely to be the same LGBs & other systems in use today.
The PAF should make more effort to finalise the systems needed for the FC-1 & if you ask me, compatiblity trails should begin before the FC-1 takes its firs flight. The PAF simply cannot afford too many delays. Look at the F-7PG for example, they lay for two years idle simply because the decisions were not taken soon enough on their electronics! Also, the Grifo 7PG radar was still being developed even when they were finally inducted & compatibility trails (with weapons) are not yet complete!
Therein, I believe the the weapons systems on the FC-1 should be decided well before its first flight & compatibilty trails completed.
1
1 votes
FC-1/JF-17 Thread: All Discussions Here
Started by
Top Gun 101
, Apr 17 2003 03:10 PM
4590 replies to this topic
#1
Top Gun 101
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Posted 17 April 2003 - 03:10 PM
"We were told the purpose of the mission was to bring in the weapon but it's not the weapon it's the fighter pilot inside"
~Zechs Marquise (AC 195) Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
~Zechs Marquise (AC 195) Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
#2
China_su27sk
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Posted 17 April 2003 - 09:11 PM
Hello,my dear Pakistan friends. This is my first time entering the military forum.I am a chinese lived in ChongQing where is near
the ChengDu.
Pakistan is the only reliable friend of China now.You are always support our coutry in politics and economics .thanks a lot.
China is a big courntry but she has some problem.As known as all,the biggest is the "How to make chinese people more and more rich" ,and then the Taiwan proplem . We always think the economics as the most important thing,so we don't want to solve the Taiwan problem by war
method.
China has about 200 SU27(J11), 110 su30kk, 100Jh7(fbc),400 J8,1600j7,2000j6, 800 others planes.the totle is more than 5000.
J10 is really VERY good, its ability is high than F16a/b, just like F16C/D. FC1 has 80% f16a's ability,but is can upgrate later. The
Fc1 is more cheaper than F16,so i think FC1 more fit your courtry.
the ChengDu.
Pakistan is the only reliable friend of China now.You are always support our coutry in politics and economics .thanks a lot.
China is a big courntry but she has some problem.As known as all,the biggest is the "How to make chinese people more and more rich" ,and then the Taiwan proplem . We always think the economics as the most important thing,so we don't want to solve the Taiwan problem by war
method.
China has about 200 SU27(J11), 110 su30kk, 100Jh7(fbc),400 J8,1600j7,2000j6, 800 others planes.the totle is more than 5000.
J10 is really VERY good, its ability is high than F16a/b, just like F16C/D. FC1 has 80% f16a's ability,but is can upgrate later. The
Fc1 is more cheaper than F16,so i think FC1 more fit your courtry.
#3
China_su27sk
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Posted 17 April 2003 - 09:26 PM
FC1 can be upgarted while F16a is not easy to upgate because both
Pakistan and China has no technologys about F16. only the USA.
Pakistan and China has no technologys about F16. only the USA.
#4
3BSD
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Posted 17 April 2003 - 09:29 PM
Umm, your comments about Pakistan and China's friendship are appreciated but please try to create only one topic next time.
Thanks.
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Thanks.
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The sound of silence is deafening.
#6
China_su27sk
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Posted 17 April 2003 - 09:43 PM
I just want to creat one topic ,sorry! how can i cancel the other two?
help me,please
help me,please
#7
China_su27sk
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Posted 17 April 2003 - 09:48 PM
Where can i cancel the other two topic? the forum is not familiar to me
#8
PakistanSSG
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Posted 17 April 2003 - 10:28 PM
Dont worry friend, the Moderators here will clean it up. 
"hum, err, where are the controls on this device. Now, on a russian MiG its next to the altimeter." Stewie, Family guy.
#9
Sufi Bull Bull
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Posted 17 April 2003 - 11:12 PM
welcome chinees friend , NE HAAOOOOOO
In the Absense of Light.......Darkness Prevails.....So There are things that goes Bump at the Night.......And My Job is to Bump back on them......
#10
China_su27sk
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Posted 17 April 2003 - 11:18 PM
Great ! You can speak Chinese! "Ni Hao" . Very Great!Thanks!
NI ye Hao
NI ye Hao
#11
ISI2003
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Posted 18 April 2003 - 05:58 AM
welcome China_su27sk
hello and welcome to this forum enjoy
we have a lot of great pics about china
if you have any post them
btw have you seen the j-10 or fc-1 (in secret test flights, probably B) ) or any other planes fly over your area?
do you read chinese newspapers and what do they say about the fighters
how far is ChongQing from Chengdu?
thank you too for china's aid over the years to Pakistan
hello and welcome to this forum enjoy
we have a lot of great pics about china
if you have any post them
btw have you seen the j-10 or fc-1 (in secret test flights, probably B) ) or any other planes fly over your area?
do you read chinese newspapers and what do they say about the fighters
how far is ChongQing from Chengdu?
thank you too for china's aid over the years to Pakistan
"The most excellent Jihad is that for the conquest of self." (Bukhari)
"Acquire knowledge, it enables its prosessor to distinguish right from wrong; it lights the way to heaven. It is our friend in the
desert, our company in solitude and companion when friendless. It guides us to happiness, it sustains us in misery, it is an ornament amongst friends and an armor against enemies." (widely attributed to the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh))
"Acquire knowledge, it enables its prosessor to distinguish right from wrong; it lights the way to heaven. It is our friend in the
desert, our company in solitude and companion when friendless. It guides us to happiness, it sustains us in misery, it is an ornament amongst friends and an armor against enemies." (widely attributed to the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh))
#12
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Posted 18 April 2003 - 07:47 AM
China_su27sk, on Apr 17 2003, 09:11 PM, said:
J10 is really VERY good, its ability is high than F16a/b, just like F16C/D. FC1 has 80% f16a's ability,but is can upgrate later. The
Fc1 is more cheaper than F16,so i think FC1 more fit your courtry.
Fc1 is more cheaper than F16,so i think FC1 more fit your courtry.
In addition, China has added several features that were directly reverse-engineered from a U.S.-made F-16 Falcon jet fighter provided to Beijing by Pakistan.
The Pakistani F-16, sold to Islamabad during the 1980s, was given to the PLAAF as part of a secret military trade deal between Pakistan and China. In return for the U.S.-made F-16 jet, Pakistan received a deep discount on the purchase of Chinese-made M-11 ballistic missiles.
The new Chinese J-10 supersonic fighter is designed to take on and defeat U.S.-built F-16 and F-18 fighters that make up the bulk of American airpower.
Western sources estimate that Chengdu will manufacture over 1,000 of the delta-winged fighters to replace aging MiG-21 and MiG-19 fighter designs that currently make up the vast majority of China's air force.
http://www.newsmax.c.../7/161236.shtml
*I salute the Pakistan Air Force and those magnificent men in their flitting machines for what they were, are and always would be.
My heart goes out to those hundreds of valiant fighter pilots who are no more with us, having laid down their lives, in war and peace in line of duty to their country.
Their graves I may not know but I do know that they could have been the pride of any air force and any nation
*SHAHEEN"The "PAF" Fighter Pilots Flies Because He Dares-Nothing More,Nothing less
*IT Take Temperament ,Aptitude And Physical Fitness Of A Special kind To Make " A Fighter Pilot".
*Pakistani Fighter Pilots know they are likely to face combat ANY TIME.
*Currently Pakistan has to rely on its Pilots' quality to deter "Indian Air Force".
My heart goes out to those hundreds of valiant fighter pilots who are no more with us, having laid down their lives, in war and peace in line of duty to their country.
Their graves I may not know but I do know that they could have been the pride of any air force and any nation
*SHAHEEN"The "PAF" Fighter Pilots Flies Because He Dares-Nothing More,Nothing less
*IT Take Temperament ,Aptitude And Physical Fitness Of A Special kind To Make " A Fighter Pilot".
*Pakistani Fighter Pilots know they are likely to face combat ANY TIME.
*Currently Pakistan has to rely on its Pilots' quality to deter "Indian Air Force".
#13
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Posted 18 April 2003 - 08:09 AM
Welcome to PakistaniDefence.com my dear Chinese friend.
Long live CHINA - Long Live Pakistan
:)Clp :)Clp :)Clp :)Clp :)Clp :)Clp :)Clp
Long live CHINA - Long Live Pakistan
:)Clp :)Clp :)Clp :)Clp :)Clp :)Clp :)Clp
#14
anwarma
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Posted 18 April 2003 - 08:29 AM
Hey Snauman: You got you ears on? 
One thing the report fails to specify is that it was not a full F-16, actually front end of a broken F-16.
Second, Chineses were only interested in the cockpit layout and the air inlet design and material used.
PEACE!
One thing the report fails to specify is that it was not a full F-16, actually front end of a broken F-16.
Second, Chineses were only interested in the cockpit layout and the air inlet design and material used.
PEACE!
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Surprise your enemy at all cost.........
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Surprise your enemy at all cost.........
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#15
Top Gun 101
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Posted 18 April 2003 - 08:54 AM
China is a much larger country than Pakistan & obviously would require greater diversity as far as it's military is concerned & the airforce is no exception. For China's PLAAF, the task of replacing all its J-6, J-7, & J-8 aircraft is daughnting. Even the Soviet Union couldn't replace all its MiG-21s with the MiG-23 & MiG-29 & certainly the production process of more modern fighters takes much longer (& is more expensive) than acquiring a low-down solution.
Suppose the PLAAF acquires the J-10, it cannot acquire enough to replace the J-6 or J-7 on a one for one bases. Then again, China doesn't want to replace it on a one-for-one bases, but wants its capabilities to be improved. A whole squadron of J-10s would outgun a whole wing of J-7s for example.
One must understand, that China wants state-of-the-art fighters to handle the threats coming for Tawain, India, Korea, Japan & of course, the United States, & many believe that the J-10 has a good chance but needs (like everything else) a great pilot. By contrast, you can't get much out of the J-7 (for example) & it doesn't instill the same level of confidence in the pilot that the J-10 would.
Many Chinese tend to look at the FC-1 like the J-7. They would think that any foe would just have a turkey-shoot. This is not wholely true, but put simply, the PLAAF wants better. The USAF for example didn't induct the F-5 series officially except for specialised roles such as adversary training, but it found its niche as 'the poor man's fighter' & was sold throughout the third world.
Some Chinese people I've discussed the subject with believe that Pakistan is better off without the FC-1. Many think that its specifications are obsolete, outdated, & most of all, the type is late in their eyes.
One Chinese airforce enthusiest (a friend of mine) said:
"Pakistan has a small airforce, & doesn't have too many options. It should invest in high-tech aircraft to be deployed in moderate numbers. The High-Mid-Low tech combination is only for large AFs like China's"
In other words, Pakistan is better off (in his view) with modest numbers of J-10 & some other fighters. He cited Sweden has ordered some 250 Jas-39A/B/C/D.
Certainly acquiring some 200 J-10 & about 60 or so Advanced Fighters (ie: Rafale) from the West doesn't seem like a bad idea, some even think it's a better idea for Pakistan.
Suppose the PLAAF acquires the J-10, it cannot acquire enough to replace the J-6 or J-7 on a one for one bases. Then again, China doesn't want to replace it on a one-for-one bases, but wants its capabilities to be improved. A whole squadron of J-10s would outgun a whole wing of J-7s for example.
One must understand, that China wants state-of-the-art fighters to handle the threats coming for Tawain, India, Korea, Japan & of course, the United States, & many believe that the J-10 has a good chance but needs (like everything else) a great pilot. By contrast, you can't get much out of the J-7 (for example) & it doesn't instill the same level of confidence in the pilot that the J-10 would.
Many Chinese tend to look at the FC-1 like the J-7. They would think that any foe would just have a turkey-shoot. This is not wholely true, but put simply, the PLAAF wants better. The USAF for example didn't induct the F-5 series officially except for specialised roles such as adversary training, but it found its niche as 'the poor man's fighter' & was sold throughout the third world.
Some Chinese people I've discussed the subject with believe that Pakistan is better off without the FC-1. Many think that its specifications are obsolete, outdated, & most of all, the type is late in their eyes.
One Chinese airforce enthusiest (a friend of mine) said:
"Pakistan has a small airforce, & doesn't have too many options. It should invest in high-tech aircraft to be deployed in moderate numbers. The High-Mid-Low tech combination is only for large AFs like China's"
In other words, Pakistan is better off (in his view) with modest numbers of J-10 & some other fighters. He cited Sweden has ordered some 250 Jas-39A/B/C/D.
Certainly acquiring some 200 J-10 & about 60 or so Advanced Fighters (ie: Rafale) from the West doesn't seem like a bad idea, some even think it's a better idea for Pakistan.
"We were told the purpose of the mission was to bring in the weapon but it's not the weapon it's the fighter pilot inside"
~Zechs Marquise (AC 195) Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
~Zechs Marquise (AC 195) Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
#16
Lulldapull
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Posted 18 April 2003 - 09:38 AM
I guess with each passing day the bullshiit on this AF forum has considerably subsided! 
Thankyou Chinese su_27SK Flanker dude!
Why don't you tell these kids here that the Chinese flankers are its most capable aircraft!! And will be even if the J-10 or FC-1 come into service! these idiots don't seem to believe me, and are in a third world denial!!
Thankyou Chinese su_27SK Flanker dude!
Why don't you tell these kids here that the Chinese flankers are its most capable aircraft!! And will be even if the J-10 or FC-1 come into service! these idiots don't seem to believe me, and are in a third world denial!!
#17
Man of Courage
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Posted 19 April 2003 - 12:44 AM
FC-1 is gonna fly in june this year...so every thing will be clear after that...till then hang on plz...
Regards,
Man Of Courage.
Man Of Courage.
#18
Top Gun 101
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Posted 19 April 2003 - 04:22 AM
I reckon that these details should be finalised before the FC-1 even takes off. As I said, Pakistan should make up its mind & not allow for delays. There's an urgent requirement for 150 FC-1s & no more time needs to be delayed.
"We were told the purpose of the mission was to bring in the weapon but it's not the weapon it's the fighter pilot inside"
~Zechs Marquise (AC 195) Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
~Zechs Marquise (AC 195) Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
#19
Eagle
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Posted 19 April 2003 - 04:40 AM
Hey Top Gun,
Will Super-7 use Grifo-S7 radar ? ....... what are the specs (range) of it's radar ?
Will Super-7 use Grifo-S7 radar ? ....... what are the specs (range) of it's radar ?
#20
Top Gun 101
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Posted 19 April 2003 - 05:03 AM
The Grifo S7 radar a development of the Grifo M3 (on PAF ROSE I Mirage III/5) & is BVR-AAM capable. It is a 120km class radar & can supposedly engage up to two targets simoultaniously. However, details are unknown & the type is still under development.
"We were told the purpose of the mission was to bring in the weapon but it's not the weapon it's the fighter pilot inside"
~Zechs Marquise (AC 195) Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
~Zechs Marquise (AC 195) Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
#21
platinum786
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Posted 19 April 2003 - 09:16 AM
there are litterally loads of modern new radars they could use but they'll end up with crappy grifo 7.
Look we could easily get the radar in the Rafale or the Mirage 2000-9 or the one in the Eurofighter, all radars which can turn an air war, sure tehy'lll cost top dollar but what is the point of getting an inferior plane.
Imagine the FC-1 armed with the Captor Radar, that can detect at 200KM, thats the flankers edge gone isn't it.
Look we could easily get the radar in the Rafale or the Mirage 2000-9 or the one in the Eurofighter, all radars which can turn an air war, sure tehy'lll cost top dollar but what is the point of getting an inferior plane.
Imagine the FC-1 armed with the Captor Radar, that can detect at 200KM, thats the flankers edge gone isn't it.
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#22
WarCry
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Posted 19 April 2003 - 11:29 AM
i think have to see whether the plane has the size to accomodate the radar in its dome or not... apparently, FC-1 is too small for radar onboard the eurofighter...!
#23
saifullah
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Posted 19 April 2003 - 02:44 PM
asalamualeikum
about two years there was an article on the front page of the news, regarding a griffo series radar that was being installed on f-7 aircrafts which could enable its guns to effectively target the enemy fighters in the air,it also said that Pakistan is the second country after us to produce such a radar.can anyone add anymore information about it.
Allah hafiz
about two years there was an article on the front page of the news, regarding a griffo series radar that was being installed on f-7 aircrafts which could enable its guns to effectively target the enemy fighters in the air,it also said that Pakistan is the second country after us to produce such a radar.can anyone add anymore information about it.
Allah hafiz
#24
platinum786
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Posted 19 April 2003 - 03:02 PM
Quote
about two years there was an article on the front page of the news, regarding a griffo series radar that was being installed on f-7 aircrafts which could enable its guns to effectively target the enemy fighters in the air,it also said that Pakistan is the second country after us to produce such a radar.can anyone add anymore information about it.
well it's not all wrong............ :ermm
The griffo 7 radar is an average radar system installed in plaes, nothing special.
It's produced by an italian company not the united states however it was designed as an upgrade radar initial;ly for old F-16's.
We don't produce it as far as know and it isn't installed on F-7's.
Follow PDF on twitter @Official_PDF
-=-=-=-=Faith, Unity, Discipline-=-=-=-=
Kashmir is the jugular Vein of Pakistan and no nation
or country would tolerate its jugular vein remains
under the sword of the enemy. -Muhammed Ali Jinnah
-=-=-=-=FREE KASHMIR-=-=-=-=
These eye's do not wander in lust, for my
queen of hearts has graced them with love.
"We gave our today for your tommorrow ".
-=-=-=-=Faith, Unity, Discipline-=-=-=-=
Kashmir is the jugular Vein of Pakistan and no nation
or country would tolerate its jugular vein remains
under the sword of the enemy. -Muhammed Ali Jinnah
-=-=-=-=FREE KASHMIR-=-=-=-=
These eye's do not wander in lust, for my
queen of hearts has graced them with love.
"We gave our today for your tommorrow ".
#25
Lightning F57
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Posted 19 April 2003 - 03:23 PM
Well lets just say the FC1/Super 7 will be much better than most planes the PAF field so whats the point keep saying that its no good, as it will be much better than most ac the PAF have now.
#27
Munir
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 12:48 AM
saifullah, on Apr 19 2003, 02:44 PM, said:
asalamualeikum
about two years there was an article on the front page of the news, regarding a griffo series radar that was being installed on f-7 aircrafts which could enable its guns to effectively target the enemy fighters in the air,it also said that Pakistan is the second country after us to produce such a radar.can anyone add anymore information about it.
Allah hafiz
about two years there was an article on the front page of the news, regarding a griffo series radar that was being installed on f-7 aircrafts which could enable its guns to effectively target the enemy fighters in the air,it also said that Pakistan is the second country after us to produce such a radar.can anyone add anymore information about it.
Allah hafiz
About following bullets... That is a system used by goalkeeper and other types that are used for airdefense. Airguns mostly computate the path a bullet will follow using some airdata (speed (G's), heading). Thus can be seen on the hud (two lines and impact point).
Peace,
To handle yourself, use your head;
To handle others, use your heart.
Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.
There is no beginning or end....
Yesterday is history.
Tomorrow is mystery.
Today is a gift.
To handle others, use your heart.
Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.
There is no beginning or end....
Yesterday is history.
Tomorrow is mystery.
Today is a gift.
#28
USAM
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 02:54 AM
WE make the griffo 7 in pak under licence.
But Super Giffo 7 is different and we do not make it and infact even Italian company has not finished the development of Super Griffo 7.
But replacement for F 16 is Griffo 2000 so i think Griffo 7 will be more adavance then Griffo 2000.
But Super Giffo 7 is different and we do not make it and infact even Italian company has not finished the development of Super Griffo 7.
But replacement for F 16 is Griffo 2000 so i think Griffo 7 will be more adavance then Griffo 2000.
#29
Flanker30MKI
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 03:36 AM
I'm more concerned about the ECM. And I hope it has an internal gun.
#30 Guest_fighterking_*
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#31
anwarma
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 10:16 AM
I never believed in any of what these URDU daily papers say. :ermm
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Surprise your enemy at all cost.........
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#32
DGMO
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 10:19 AM
And ? An explanantion would be nice, not just a headline or do i sense another BS S-7 thread.
Any transalations ?
Any transalations ?
--------- Director-General Military Operations ---------
#33
anwarma
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 10:22 AM
The translation is:
Pakistan acquires the capability to overhaul an F-16 completely.
But anything these URDU daily say only 5% true.
Pakistan acquires the capability to overhaul an F-16 completely.
But anything these URDU daily say only 5% true.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Surprise your enemy at all cost.........
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Surprise your enemy at all cost.........
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#34
DGMO
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 10:34 AM
Cheers,
So whats the 'good news' about the S-7 fighterking ?
So whats the 'good news' about the S-7 fighterking ?
--------- Director-General Military Operations ---------
#35
PakiPatriot
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 01:22 PM
BUUUUULLLLLL CRAAAAPPP!
http://siddiqui.dynu...8000/listen.pls
Click here to listen to the best of Pakistani music. LIVE 24/7
Click here to listen to the best of Pakistani music. LIVE 24/7
#36
3BSD
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 01:35 PM
Good news about ... nothing. :ermm
-3BSD
-3BSD
The sound of silence is deafening.
#37
PAF Shaheen
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 01:41 PM
Guys, i dont find any of this crap. First of all, as we admitt that these URDU newspapers know nothing about military stuff. But this also entails a positive point. This is what these guys do. They are being called upon by the Public Relations Centre and then they just sit down and note what the guys up on the desk is saying. Hek they dont even ask any questions. Know what i mean. So this stuff is pretty credible. Here is my own translation in point form:
- Pakistan has attained the capability to fully overhaul the F-16 fighting Falcon. This is a milestone achivement since even the sanctions would not be of any effect as the country now makes every single component of this machine. It is saving the nation as well as the Air Force 37 million dollars (an year?).
- Super-7 will make debut fly in 1 1/2 months, that is in June. It is a multi-purpose fighter and will be the frontline fighter of the PAF. The full induction of this aircraft will complet in 6-7 years. It is an aircraft better than the F-16 in the PAF service.
- The agreement for the sale of the Super Mushak to the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia has been finalized and the technical aspects of the agreement are under consideration.
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The good thing is that now it is very obvious that the Super 7 will indeed (Insha Allah) fly in June, as is said by a PAF Officer. Many of us were speculating whether the plane will fly at all. However, as indicated by the tone of the article, the PAF appears to be quite optimistic about the Super 7. Several doubts have been clarified through this article. What do ya say?
- Pakistan has attained the capability to fully overhaul the F-16 fighting Falcon. This is a milestone achivement since even the sanctions would not be of any effect as the country now makes every single component of this machine. It is saving the nation as well as the Air Force 37 million dollars (an year?).
- Super-7 will make debut fly in 1 1/2 months, that is in June. It is a multi-purpose fighter and will be the frontline fighter of the PAF. The full induction of this aircraft will complet in 6-7 years. It is an aircraft better than the F-16 in the PAF service.
- The agreement for the sale of the Super Mushak to the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia has been finalized and the technical aspects of the agreement are under consideration.
------------------------------------------------
The good thing is that now it is very obvious that the Super 7 will indeed (Insha Allah) fly in June, as is said by a PAF Officer. Many of us were speculating whether the plane will fly at all. However, as indicated by the tone of the article, the PAF appears to be quite optimistic about the Super 7. Several doubts have been clarified through this article. What do ya say?
"For the ISI boys, who had actually done that fine job, I could only give each one of them a pat on his back and gave them their next assignments. None of us looked back. In the ISI, every new sun rises with new problems and new challenges. As a matter of fact, the sun never sets in the ISI."
Brig. Syed A.I Tirmazi, SI(M)
Director Joint Counter-Intelligence Bureau
Directorate General Inter-Services Intelligence
Brig. Syed A.I Tirmazi, SI(M)
Director Joint Counter-Intelligence Bureau
Directorate General Inter-Services Intelligence
#38 Guest_fighterking_*
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#39
DGMO
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Posted 20 April 2003 - 03:14 PM
fighterking,
Will u stop posting BS links.
Will u stop posting BS links.
--------- Director-General Military Operations ---------
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USAM
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BRIGADIER
Posted 20 April 2003 - 03:25 PM
Radar on protype will be Elta 2023.
I hope Super 7 have more powerful engine.
I hope Super 7 have more powerful engine.
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