34 replies to this topic

[fc1000]

The choice of above fighters could decide the direction which PAF takes in future.

[CrackRomeo]

U R quick aren't u....


I would like to go for both if Pak is still planning for M2K5

[kataphraktoi]

CrackRomeo, on Aug 18 2003, 02:48 PM, said:

U R quick aren't u....

  :cat

[Rise of the Saber]

MAN I HAVE A LOVE AFFAIR WITH THE f 16

[CrackRomeo]

Rise of the Saber, on Aug 18 2003, 12:51 PM, said:

MAN I HAVE A LOVE AFFAIR WITH THE f 16

Wish u a happy ending for this love affair.

[Rise of the Saber]

THANK U AM GOING TO APPLY TO PAF NEXT YEAR

[CrackRomeo]

Rise of the Saber, on Aug 18 2003, 01:08 PM, said:

THANK U AM GOING TO APPLY TO PAF NEXT YEAR

Thats good... Good Luck!!!

Hope u take your knowledge gained from this forum with you... and make a difference....

[PAF Shaheen]

CrackRomeo, on Aug 18 2003, 01:11 PM, said:

Thats good... Good Luck!!!

Hope u take your knowledge gained from this forum with you... and make a difference....

A great advuise indeed.

Good luck Saber. Not to dissapoint u, but u know what to expect right?

[Rise of the Saber]

DEFINATELY INCREASED MY KNOWLEDGE THANKS TO U ALL

[Rise of the Saber]

DEFINATELY INCREASED MY KNOWLEDGE THANKS TO U ALL
AND LOOK TONIGHT I BECAME A LITUNATE YAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Squadron Leader]

I'dd say the PAF should go for both...but the F-16 would be easier to maintain.

[vikasrehman]

F-16s r better option...cheap/easier to maintain/quick induction...yet hellish cos of fear of american sanctions.
M2K-5 would b expenisve to buy/maintain and no point of buying them if PAF wont buy anymore.

[taaoo]

If PAF goes for MK2, my hands are up for prayers. Rafale or Eurofighter are the only planes that can stop Su-30. Otherwise, keep on taking commisions and kick-backs but you are not gonna go defend your airspace.

[pakcoder]

Belgian F-16 are block 10 F-16. They are not BVR capable.  They also have F-16AM which can carry AMRAAMs.

Reference: http://www.f-16.net/...&artid=4&page=1

Gallery of Belgian F-16's:

http://www.f-16.net/...=view_album.php

[Rise of the Saber]

PAF Shaheen, on Aug 18 2003, 01:18 PM, said:

CrackRomeo, on Aug 18 2003, 01:11 PM, said:

Thats good... Good Luck!!!

Hope u take your knowledge gained from this forum with you... and make a difference....

A great advuise indeed.

Good luck Saber. Not to dissapoint u, but u know what to expect right?

what did u ment by
but u know what to expect right??
to paf shaheen

[Squadron Leader]

I like BAF F-16s better then QEAF Mirage 2000-5s.

[sam0001]

I dont think Pakistan is getting either of them

[MoThSmOkE]

First Option: PAF goes for the Qatari Mirage 2Ks then chances are really high that they'd go for more brand new Mirage 2Ks from France.

Second Option: PAF goes for BAF F-16s, it would allow PAF a bit more breathing space, until the JF-17 arrives hopefully within 3 years.

Second Option sounds more cheap and feasible, although the threat of sanctions is there. But getting spares from the black market is not a very big problem for the PAF.

[Squadron Leader]

The PAF should go for the F-16s, the PAF has reserve F-16 Pilots to fly them anyways...our F-16 Numbers would increase very quickly.

[American79]

Both are good ........ :foxie)

[Squadron Leader]

American79, on Aug 23 2003, 09:28 AM, said:

Both are good ........ :foxie)

F-16 is Cheap..........Mirage 2000-5mk2 is expensive.......

[scorpion]

Quote

F-16 is Cheap..........Mirage 2000-5mk2 is expensive.......

very right...........

and further more, about the sanctions i'll only say that.... Two decades have passed and 34 out of 40 F-16s are still flying and we all know how long periods of sanctions we h'd faced........... just shows PAF tech capabilities, that must be admired....

but the only and important problem is that , it is very difficult for F-16 now to ever reach Islamabad.... New progress have been made, but u know final decision is gonna be made by US... and further Indians are always trying....and so concerned that there deputy prime minister ran to USA, to ask uncle not to give F-16s to Pakistan....... I don't know how much india gave for this ?... but they have again showed there reality... like always

[Kelsier]

We're not going to either of them.

[Squadron Leader]

We really need to strengthen our lobbies in the U.S if we want F-16s, for now we ain't gonna get F-16s.

[Squadron Leader]

The U.S doesn't want us to get JF-17s as a alternitive from the F-16, but they won't give us F-16s either...frauds, they want us to be weak...I say let the JF-17 progress.

[vikasrehman]

Diplomatic sources mayb right when they say that 'US might agree to sell some old F-16s to PAF (through Belgium) to affect FC-1'. Y do i say this?...well there r couple of reasons.

1. F-16s have a better payload and greater range, but is there anything that F-16A/B (OCU) can do that FC-1 cant do so. FC-1 should hopefully b as good as F-16A/B (OCU) in aerial WVR fights and better at BVR ranges with ARH BVR missiles. It can also carry nukes...so US may think of making some money and they would retain considerable leverage with Pak vis-a-vis sanctions.

2. One just has to look at Taiwan's F-CK-1. The programme started in 1982 after US refused to sell F-16s to them. But by 1992, when F-CK-1 flight tests had been completed and it was being inducted US did a u-turn and decided to sell 150 F-16s to them (only armed with Aim-7 SARH though and no AMRAAMs) and ROCAF decided to cut their order of F-CK-1 from 250 to 130. US did make a lot of money and kept Taiwan under clutches.

PS. I'd b happy to c more F-16s with PAF (only for ground attack etc) as long as it does not have a bad effect on FC-1 purchase.

[Squadron Leader]

Another thing was that the F-16s had to be grounded for some time after a couple experienced problems, the PAF doesn't need second-hand F-16A/Bs, if we can get JF-17s, which are better then our F-16 Block 15s, then let the jF-17 continue.

[vikasrehman]

Quote

PAF doesn't need second-hand F-16A/Bs, if we can get JF-17s, which are better then our F-16 Block 15s, then let the jF-17 continue.

Though true in a sense but dont forget that 60 or so F-16s (just OCU ones) can replace the whole fleet of A-5 and old mirage Vs and thus a very potent strike force, which is an obvious very big advantage considering the fact that they r cheap and PAF wont need extra facilities for maintanance etc. But ever looming sanctions r an obvious disadvantage. So its a matter of choice.

[Squadron Leader]

Remember............... we have to keep our selfs upto date....

ok so 125 F-16 Block 15s would do the PAF nicely in replacing our A-5s and F-7Ps, but its gonna go old anyways.

[vikasrehman]

Quote

ok so 125 F-16 Block 15s would do the PAF nicely in replacing our A-5s and F-7Ps, but its gonna go old anyways.

Im not talking about replacements of F-7Ps with F-16s. Though, it could b done (if u have that many F-16s) but i'd rather have PAF replace their old air defence fighter with BVR capable FC-1. Im only talking about (and only hypothetically if PAF can somehow get Belgian F-16s) that 60 F-16s (if solely dedicated for ground attack role) can replace 48 or so A-5s (for close support missions) and around 30 or so non-rose Mirage Vs (for strike missions).

[Squadron Leader]

OK...but even getting used F-16s has a price...many analysts say the PAF wpuld have to get rid of its JF-17 project

[vikasrehman]

Quote

OK...but even getting used F-16s has a price...many analysts say the PAF wpuld have to get rid of its JF-17 project

Not true.
Just look at Taiwan...Their original requirement for F-CK-1 was 250, which was reduced to 130 after purchase of 150 F-16s (block 20 with Aim-7E and no Amraam).
In comparison PAF wants between 150-200 FC-1. PAF wants these fighters for 2 main reasons;
1. Its gives PAF a true ARH BVR capability.
2. PAF's reliance on US for fighters goes dow drastically.

Also considering the fact that FC-1 is primarily designed to meet PAF's requirements for next 10-20 years and the fact that PAK has invested a considerable amount of money into this project, i cant see y purchase of 30 or so F-16s (almost for stop-gap reasons) from Belgium would effect PAF's FC-1 plans. However, if US offers PAF something like 100+ F-16s with Amraams, then thats a totally different ball game...but can u see this ever happening? Think not

[Squadron Leader]

I say we get to work on the FC-2...and I mean reverse engineer an F-16 for its airframe, and I mean 90% Exat copy, and then get a chinese engine into it and add new avionics for the future
Otherwise if the U.S opens F-16 relations with us within 10 years, we should order like 125 F-16 Block 52s instead of ordering Mirage 2000-5s from France.

[Hammad]

Well one thing is clear US will never supply planes to PAF due to Indian pressure and Belgian F16s are a better choice as a stop gap to fill-in the vacuum untill Thunder enters service in good nos.

In my opinion Mushy had got Bush's approval at Camp David to buy the Belgian F16s since it allowed Israel to sell Phalcons to India. This means that US will indirectly supply planes to PAF. You see that Pakistan approached Belgium only after Mushy's US visit which proofs my point.  This is also good as these planes can be upgraded to MLU to give BVR capability while US will provide MLU to existing PAF F16s. This is given in the $3bn package & recently Lockheed-Martin people visited Pakistan to discuss it. Each MLU upgrade will cost $3-5m apiece, very cheap.

Once, we have the Belgian F16s. we can try to get more used F16s from Holland who recently de-commissioned already MLU a/c, Norway & Denmark.  This will give us some +100 F16s to start replacing A5s.

Qatari M2k5 is not a good option untill we buy more brand new ones from France BUT WHY M2K5??? WHY NOT RAFALES AT LITTLE EXTRA COST???

MEANWHILE, WE WILL CONTINUE ON JF-17, NO COMPROMISES ACCEPTABLE.