81 replies to this topic

[Panzer-kiel]

Do you believe that american is involved in encouraging terrorism in Pakistan?

am sure, if not directly, then indirectly, but indians are supportin all this, ofcourse they are permitted by ISAF/Afghanis to mount their ops here.....

[rungroot]

am sure, if not directly, then indirectly, but indians are supportin all this, ofcourse they are permitted by ISAF/Afghanis to mount their ops here.....

What's the solution you think?

[Panzer-kiel]

What's the solution you think?

..simply pull out of this mess, we will hav peace in no time!!!

[rungroot]

..simply pull out of this mess, we will hav peace in no time!!!

Agreed. IK I guess.

[Panzer-kiel]

...lets do something to resurrect this topic, i spend so much time on PDF but i dont know where everyone is, khair anywayz....

studies are being done and plans are being updated regarding how much time an outfit and disengage from the Western Front and make its way to the Eastern Front, we must keep in mind that many offensive units are here as well, units which have to go on the offensive against India in case of war, so if there is any escalation or even a whiff of a war, we will have to disengage and get ready in the West....it would take about 35-40 hours for my unit to disengage from the bases in the West, concentrate, move, reach its destination in the East and become effective in my designated AOO....

[Panzer-kiel]

....plus my outfit is also part of several IBGs (Integrated Battle Groups) or CATs (Combined Arms Teams), other units which also make up these IBGs or CATs are spread around, so they would take their own time in order to concentrate and become effective......in essence, these 35-40 hours are critical, if we get a warning time of lets say 50 hours before a war, thats all that would be needed... however, accomplishing the same thing during war is another matter,and if the enemy manages air superiority over our road networks, then there sure will be lots of fireworks...

[complicated]

Do you think you will be allowed to leave the area that easily by the militants?

...lets do something to resurrect this topic, i spend so much time on PDF but i dont know where everyone is, khair anywayz....

studies are being done and plans are being updated regarding how much time an outfit and disengage from the Western Front and make its way to the Eastern Front, we must keep in mind that many offensive units are here as well, units which have to go on the offensive against India in case of war, so if there is any escalation or even a whiff of a war, we will have to disengage and get ready in the West....it would take about 35-40 hours for my unit to disengage from the bases in the West, concentrate, move, reach its destination in the East and become effective in my designated AOO....

[Panzer-kiel]

Do you think you will be allowed to leave the area that easily by the militants?

dont worry, it wont be a problem....it would have been a problem if we would have been in constant contact with them, which is ofcourse not the case, so it isnt a big problem.....

[platinum786]

Do you really expect a sudden escalation of hostilies on the eastern front? I'd expect it to be gradual build up allowing PA plenty of time to re-adjust. What is the likeliness we'd face fire on both fronts? Could the militants really justify supporting India in a war?

[Panzer-kiel]

Do you really expect a sudden escalation of hostilies on the eastern front? I'd expect it to be gradual build up allowing PA plenty of time to re-adjust. What is the likeliness we'd face fire on both fronts? Could the militants really justify supporting India in a war?

as far as a sudden escalation is concerned, only a sudden attack at this moment can get us in an awkward situation, cuz the situation is very precarious in the East as far as our offensive capability is concerned....
as far as militants are concerned, they dont have anything to do with India in any aspect, theirs is an entirely difference sphere and scenario.....

[platinum786]

What i meant was, what is the chances of the militants continuing aggression if a Pak-India war was to begin? In the past they ceased fire (after the mumbai attacks i think), but nothing is guarunteed.

[Panzer-kiel]

What i meant was, what is the chances of the militants continuing aggression if a Pak-India war was to begin? In the past they ceased fire (after the mumbai attacks i think), but nothing is guarunteed.

....as u said it depends, they may or may not cease hostilities........

[blueazure]

eastern front is still the primary threat , what goes on the west is a high level insurgency that has tied down a good number of troops..


for all it takes, this isnt a situation kiyani is very comfortable in, he will either go down in history as the most inept general who saw his country bleed for 5 years with the worst possible people in charge, or as the most brilliant one who simultaneously checked india and NATO on two fronts

[Panzer-kiel]

eastern front is still the primary threat , what goes on the west is a high level insurgency that has tied down a good number of troops..


for all it takes, this isnt a situation kiyani is very comfortable in, he will either go down in history as the most inept general who saw his country bleed for 5 years with the worst possible people in charge, or as the most brilliant one who simultaneously checked india and NATO on two fronts

well, in tht case, it depends upon who writes the history...

[faizan khaliq]

Back to Cab the doctrine of helibourne forces securing few sensitive sights behind enemy lines is risky because there too many ways to slow down ground forces and link up.
I think that Combat aviation brigade has to do the frontal assault and intial penetration of enemy defences and induct ground forces and exploit.
timings and coordination is /will be a serious issue.
CAB is workable in Afghan scenario but against Indian Air force?? i doubt it very much

[Panzer-kiel]

Back to Cab the doctrine of helibourne forces securing few sensitive sights behind enemy lines is risky because there too many ways to slow down ground forces and link up.
I think that Combat aviation brigade has to do the frontal assault and intial penetration of enemy defences and induct ground forces and exploit.
timings and coordination is /will be a serious issue.
CAB is workable in Afghan scenario but against Indian Air force?? i doubt it very much

....tht heliborne thing can only be implemented if enemy air is non-existent, enemy AD assets are suppressed plus you ought to have a lot many helis to really make an impact....
....its not just Indian Airforce, its almost universal, no mobile column can have a chance in hell to succeed if enemy has air superiority or even parity in that particular area, either our airforce has to be pro-active from the start or our mobile columns should have an overwhelming quantity of mobile short, medium and longer range AD assets....plus gunships ready on call to deal with any enemy infantry or armor-heavy battle-groups which may spring an ambush.....

[TechSavy]

Panzer Bro, I want to ask ya a question slightly off-topic basically I want to know How many Tanks does PA have?? I cant find any exect info regarding numbers and have you ever operated Al-Khalid how good is Al-khalid against T90s and I thinks most of us here on PDF wanna know how many Aks do we have and if we do have only 300 then why the production is so slow.

Secondly, in your personal opinion how long will this afgan war will last (specially for us) will it take another dacade.
and lastly do you think that US will attack us as like if it will face an ultimate defeat in Afgan in this case How will we handle three ways assult an amphibious asult from Arabian sea and agression from Indian and from Afganistan . In this scenario what will be our option how will we stand against that Do we will have enough guts to go nuclear if our integrity is at stake.

[faizan khaliq]

....tht heliborne thing can only be implemented if enemy air is non-existent, enemy AD assets are suppressed plus you ought to have a lot many helis to really make an impact....
....its not just Indian Airforce, its almost universal, no mobile column can have a chance in hell to succeed if enemy has air superiority or even parity in that particular area, either our airforce has to be pro-active from the start or our mobile columns should have an overwhelming quantity of mobile short, medium and longer range AD assets....plus gunships ready on call to deal with any enemy infantry or armor-heavy battle-groups which may spring an ambush.....

The problem is that mobile colmn with all the MANPADss does not stay a chance ,even if do something too big and get air superiority still terrain friction will not allow any classical advances etc like WW2 style it is cirtain that Armour In present form can not achieve much but CAB can with better deployment and fighting techniques.Few year back we discussed it in this forum under the topic of Helibourne Armed division or something similar.Air superiority battle is continuous

[Panzer-kiel]

Panzer Bro, I want to ask ya a question slightly off-topic basically I want to know How many Tanks does PA have?? I cant find any exect info regarding numbers and have you ever operated Al-Khalid how good is Al-khalid against T90s and I thinks most of us here on PDF wanna know how many Aks do we have and if we do have only 300 then why the production is so slow.

Secondly, in your personal opinion how long will this afgan war will last (specially for us) will it take another dacade.
and lastly do you think that US will attack us as like if it will face an ultimate defeat in Afgan in this case How will we handle three ways assult an amphibious asult from Arabian sea and agression from Indian and from Afganistan . In this scenario what will be our option how will we stand against that Do we will have enough guts to go nuclear if our integrity is at stake.

....as far as exact numbers of the tanks are concerned, u cannot hope to get it precise, even from a serving army officer, its way too much complex, only the concerned ppl in GHQ would be having those figures, that too not all of them......better is, you go through the list of armored regiments, multiply the figure by 45 and you will get a near precise figure.....
....in the worst case scenario, going nuclear will be the only choice left, but then, there are always a few hidden items and techs which are not shown on exhibitions and not marketed, have faith in Allah and our Armed Forces.....a few hidden surprises are always there....

[Panzer-kiel]

The problem is that mobile colmn with all the MANPADss does not stay a chance ,even if do something too big and get air superiority still terrain friction will not allow any classical advances etc like WW2 style it is cirtain that Armour In present form can not achieve much but CAB can with better deployment and fighting techniques.Few year back we discussed it in this forum under the topic of Helibourne Armed division or something similar.Air superiority battle is continuous

...Terrain always plays its role in the East, very bad out there, like there are places where ATGMs perform nil, there places where sand is so loose that you will have to lay tracks and AVLBs just to cross a patch, all this takes time, time which your enemy wants....

[Bilal]

Panzer, all I see at 32°36'3.15"N 69°45'23.56"E is some small village with farms and fields to the east, south and south west, am I missing something?

[Panzer-kiel]

Panzer, all I see at 32°36'3.15"N 69°45'23.56"E is some small village with farms and fields to the east, south and south west, am I missing something?

32°36'3.15"N, 69°45'23.56"E ... if you are entering these coordinates, then this is the place...!

[Skull-Buster]

32°36'3.15"N, 69°45'23.56"E ... if you are entering these coordinates, then this is the place...!

i see a village on a hilltop. whats its significance?

[Panzer-kiel]

i see a village on a hilltop. whats its significance?

some people use it as a permanent base to launch activities on our troops.....not only the hilltop, all the houses adjoining the hill....

[irfan_kashmir]

Some where i was reading it seems indian army is acquiring AH-64D Block III how are we going to tackle these planes in a battlefield environment ?

[Dizasta]

^^ that's an easy problem to tackle, a plethora of MANPADs integrated with Armored & Mech-Infantry divisions. Saturated presence of SAMs, MANPADs & ATGMs, is the best form of defence against an enemy who is greater in number of troop, tank, gunship & ifv! The Apaches, though very potent gunships, have only been used in war where the adversary didn't have an integrated Division level protectorate of ABMs, SAMs & MANPADs.

[faizan khaliq]

My Idea of an infantry division deployed in defence can be replace by this hightech formation consisting of let us suppose three tank regiments a combat aviation battalion consiting of 10 cobras/something like that and 1x mounted infantry battalion apc and one helibourne infantry unit.Field artillary unit is resource wastage 1xmedium Sp regiment. will do Lot will depend on what kind of fire power will be required with an aim of not the area denial but the destruction opponant corps through use of fire power and skills.It will be test of skill for division commander who has to set his command post in a helicopter and have to be in the battle field physically leading and controlling the events.

[Felicius]

Why is there no drone strike on that village if that is a confirmed site?

[Panzer-kiel]

Why is there no drone strike on that village if that is a confirmed site?

...they vacated it as quickly as they occupied it....plus they are not the ones the Drones normally come after....

[Felicius]

..plus they are not the ones the Drones normally come after....

Who or what is considered a normal target?

[Panzer-kiel]

Who or what is considered a normal target?

by normal, i mean the ones who hurt americans across the border, not the ones who operate against us....

[Felicius]

But that has been identified as a confirmed terrorist training camp. There is no way of telling what they will do after their graduation; hence, why would the US not take it out sooner?

[Panzer-kiel]

But that has been identified as a confirmed terrorist training camp. There is no way of telling what they will do after their graduation; hence, why would the US not take it out sooner?

as i said before, those who graduate from this place will be operating against us, not across the border....

[1Pakistani]

as i said before, those who graduate from this place will be operating against us, not across the border....

What stops us from bombing the day light out of them?????

[Panzer-kiel]

Some where i was reading it seems indian army is acquiring AH-64D Block III how are we going to tackle these planes in a battlefield environment ?

...the best thing is just to let them get close to us...rest you can read here... http://en.wikipedia....tack_on_Karbala

[blueazure]

...the best thing is just to let them get close to us...rest you can read here... http://en.wikipedia....tack_on_Karbala

from the link you posted

Of the 29 returning Apaches, all but one suffered serious damage. On average, each Apache had 15-20 bullet holes; one Apache even took 29 hits. Sixteen main rotor blades, six tail blades, six engines and five drive shafts were damaged beyond repair. In one squadron only a single helicopter was deemed fit to fly. It took a month until the 11th Regiment was ready to fight again. The casualties sustained by the Apaches induced a change of tactics by placing significant restrictions on their use.^[10] Attack helicopters would now be used to reveal the location of enemy troops, allowing them to be destroyed by artillery and air strikes.^[3]

there were numerous citations all over the internet and wiki about iraq war,

in one incident, an iraqi T 62 ( dug in , date palm trees) stopped the movement of a whole USMC maintenance division when it neared baghdad !

[shabi1]

Couldn't find the other topic for this movie and tried to post a new topic for this but getting an error, hence posting here.


Check out the newest trailer to the movie WAAR. The Cobra Gunship looks really epic. With its massive impact on the war on terror and fear factor, these old flying horses maybe now symbolize for Pakistan the pride that we once had with the F-16s.




http://tribune.com.p...ease-this-fall/

[faizan khaliq]

....plus my outfit is also part of several IBGs (Integrated Battle Groups) or CATs (Combined Arms Teams), other units which also make up these IBGs or CATs are spread around, so they would take their own time in order to concentrate and become effective......in essence, these 35-40 hours are critical, if we get a warning time of lets say 50 hours before a war, thats all that would be needed... however, accomplishing the same thing during war is another matter,and if the enemy manages air superiority over our road networks, then there sure will be lots of fireworks...

With COLD START doctrine of India it is not likely that you will get 50 hours warning 2.Our biggest threat is from neelam valley down to bhimbhar kotli and we have holding formations there3.In any other sector losing some ground might alright we will succeed somewhere else.4.India might restrict the war to Kashmir , reason there preponderance in infantry and Pakistan weakness of launching counter offensive , what ever we have India can very easily absorb our counter strike on International border even if it is 100% success.5.What India can not handle or unwilling to handle is Nuclear strike.6.Let us suppose Yanks assure them that we will prevent Pakistan from getting nuclear or if your objectives are achieved with in time frame or India has to stop war 7.Possiblity of limited war in Kashmir is reality but how to respond to that Pakistan Army must be knowing it when and how terrain friction has to be increased.

[Metanoia]

@Penzer-kiel, anything new on the front ?

[Panzer-kiel]

@Penzer-kiel, anything new on the front ?

Lots of........!...Rather i should say k its a whole new front!