413 replies to this topic

[Taikon@ut]

Government seeks Swedish radar system to match India: ISLAMABAD, July 14: Government, concerned over India's plans to acquire a strategic radar system from Israel, is seeking a similar system from Sweden. Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan, spokesman for the Pakistan Air Force, said talks were underway with Sweden over the purchase of an Airborne Early Warning System, but no final decision had been taken. A Swedish embassy spokesman confirmed that the matter came up for discussion when President Pervez Musharraf visited Stockholm last week. He said a Swedish parliamentary commission, which handles defence-related deals, had approved the sale of the radar system and it was now up to Pakistani authorities to decide. "I can't say at what stage it's at, but the negotiations have been going on for quite some time," he told Reuters. (Reuters) (Posted @ 14:05 PST

[Taikon@ut]

I dont think richard armitage is bringing any good news as we expect from our Major non nato ally friends so its going to be erieye, I think its a good deal sanction proof pretty much, hope its backed up by gripen in a year or so.

[Asim Aquil]

http://www.hipakista...=&f_type=source

http://in.rediff.com.../jul/14arms.htm

http://www.pakistant.../07/14/wire.htm

http://www.pakistani.../AWECS_DEAL.htm

[Bosnian_Dude]

great for PAF LETS HOPE THIS TURNS OUT TO BE TRUe.. ERIEYE IS CERTAINLY SUPERIOR TO PHALCON-AEWCS..do we know on which aircraft if will be fitted? SCREW HAWKEYE-2000..pfft

[Taikon@ut]

itll be the Saab 2000, it has its advantages probably easy to maintain than the embraer and cheaper too, I dont know if its better than the phalcon , phalcons supposed to be pretty good.

[Bosnian_Dude]

Purchasing and running costs of this aircraft are very low, which makes this solution very attractive. According to Ericsson these costs are 80 percent lower than for the E-2C and 95 percent lower than for the E-3A. To date Brazil (five for the DIV AM Program) and Greece (four) have made a decision in favour of the Erieye-System.

Neither country uses a turboprop as carrier for the radar, but the larger regional jet Embraer ERJ-145 instead. This aircraft can also accommodate systems like the DRS-3000 (EW) by Thomson-CSF. The four Greek models have been configured to be NATO compatible and cost $500mio. After the decision for Erieye was made in December 1998, the contract was signed in the summer of 1999.

Remember the Phalcon has full 360 degree coverage,while the ericsson hasn't...however, also greece chose this awecs over Phalcon which definetly tells us something..Japan is also another operator..so will it be SAAB-2000,SAAB-430 or EMB-145

[seacad]

WHAT WHAT WHAAAAAAAAAT!!! I'm dreaming rite? this a joke rite?

[seacad]

ALHUMDULILAH!!! I think it's true, chek out the links in Asim Aquil's post in the strategic forum!

[FASAL XJ]

i wont belive the news until i see the awacs on #### terittory

[S.R.A.H]

i wont belive the news until i see the awacs on #### terittory

It will just take u to wait for two more years and thats it.

[BohrNiels]

It is true. Sweden has approved this sale as its a non-offensive system that does not alter the in any way the offensive capabities of Pakistan against its neighbours.

[pakibath]

Is there any previous example of a SAAB 2000 integrated with ERIEYE. ERIEYE has a range of 400 km and can counter ECM. With 7 such aircrafts we could monitor both our land and sea. Great Leap for Pakistan

[nodong]

Sweden declared that they would not sell to Pakistan any weapon system.
What happened?

Greece ordered erieye on embraer airplane 600 M $ /4 awacs.

If it is true those are good news.

[General]

finally something good for Pakistan.Wonder how's the Gripen deal going.

[Saqr]

Expect denials j/k

Anyways, I hope it's good news, it does seem more expensive that India's deal, or the fact that we'll have more such planes.

[pegasus]

IS CERTAINLY SUPERIOR TO PHALCON-AEWCS..

You are Joking Right??? The Erieye Is regarded as a Mid Level AEW Platform . The Phalcon has a far Suprier Radar and Capability than the Erieye . Hell As it stands today the Phalcon is Superior to the Hawkeye in terms of Scanning ability. ( THe Phalcon can also scan Ground Targets) Something the Erieye Cannot.

And as for why the Greeks Got it . Simple. Its Cheeper . ITs Capability Map exactly the Operational Need of the hellenic AF due to the limited Size of their Air Space.

As it Stands today the Phalcon is the most Sophisticated AWAC platform in the Sky.

EMB-145 SA
Merging Embraer’s successful ERJ-145 regional aircraft platform with the Ericsson Erieye AEW Radar and Command and Control System, the EMB-145 SA (Surveillance Aircraft) also relies on a number of other sensors that give it multi-role capability. Besides AEW&C tasks the EMB-145 SA can also execute missions such as border surveillance and control, sea surveillance, search and rescue coordination, airspace management and signals/communications intelligence. The aircraft will be capable of integrating data in real-time with ground stations and other airborne elements. The EMB-145 AEW&C incorporates a reinforced airframe, new navigation and communication systems, an enhanced APU, increased fuel capacity and revised interior layout. The endurance in typical missions in the Amazon shall be in excess of 8 hours.


Performing its maiden flight on 22 May 1999, the EMB-145 SA Airborne Early Warning & Control (AEW&C) aircraft is configured to comply with the SIVAM Project requirements. With five units ordered by the Brazilian Government’s SIVAM (Amazon Surveillance System) Project and basis for the EMB-145 AEW&C aircraft selected by the Hellenic Air Force to fulfill its AEW&C requirements, the EMB-145 SA offers performance allied to systems and airframe availability. First delivery to the SIVAM Project is scheduled for June 2001.

The EMB-145 SA is an AEW&C optimized for air traffic control applications. It incorporates an advanced mission system that includes a surveillance radar, advanced navigation and communication systems including data-link facilities and increased fuel capacity. ERIEYE detects and tracks air and sea targets to the horizon and beyond. The ERIEYE AEW&C Mission System features a new generation active, phased-array pulse-Doppler radar and a modularly, open C2 system. It means a considerably step-up in performance over systems depending on conventional rotodome antennas, providing improved radar performance, and higher system availability and growth potential. The ERIEYE single, dual-sided fixed antenna unit places much less demand on aircraft size than was previously possible for high performance AEW&C systems. ERIEYE is the world’s first high-performance AEW&C system designed for commuter type aircraft. This has resulted in reduced acquisition as well as operational costs. ERIEYE detects and tracks air and sea targets out to the horizon and beyond. Instrumented range is 450 km. Typical detection range against a fighter size target is in excess of 350 km.

Embraer is also developing an Airborne Remote Sensing version that employs the same airframe but outfitted with different mission sensors. Designated EMB-145 RS, three of these aircraft systems were also ordered for the SIVAM Project.

Available Specifications
Country of Origin Brasil
Builder Embraer
Role Airborne Surveillance
Similar Aircraft S 100B Argus
Engines 2 Allison AE 3007A turbofans
rated at 7,426 lb (3,368 kg) thrust each
Overall length 98 ft 29.87 m
Height 22 ft 2 in 6.75 m
Span 65 ft 9 in 20.04 m
Cabin width 6 ft 11 in 2.11 m
Cabin height 6 ft 1.82 m
Baggage compartment volume 325 ft3 9.20 m3
Maximum ramp weight 42,549 lb 19,300 kg
Maximum takeoff weight 45,415 lb 20,600 kg
Maximum landing weight 41,226 lb 18,700 kg
Maximum zero fuel weight 37,257 lb 16,900 kg
Typical operating weight 25,673 lb 11,600 kg
Maximum payload 12,125 lb 5,500 kg
Cargo compartment capacity 2,645 lb 1,200 kg
Maximum cruise speed 450 kt 833 km/h
Range with 50 passengers, 200 lb each, LRC 1,330 nm 2,460 km
Rate of Climb (all engines, sea level) 2,560 fpm 780 m/min
Service ceiling (all engines) 37,000 ft 11,278 m
Takeoff distance (FAR 25, sea level) 5,643 ft 1,720 m
Landing distance length (sea level) 4,200 ft 1,280 m
Pressurization 7,8 psi

For Source Details: http://www.embraer.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IAI Phalcon 707
Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) developed its Phalcon system for Israeli defence forces and for export. Airborne Early Warning, Command and Control (AEWC&C) systems play a major role on the modern battlefield by providing real-time intelligence and command and control needed to achieve and maintain air superiority over the combat area and to enable surveillance of borders in peacetime. The world's most advanced AEWC&C system, the PHALCON, was developed and produced by ELTA using Active Phased Array Electronic Scanning Technology rather than a mechanically rotating antenna (rotodome) used by current AWACS systems, giving PHALCON greater operational flexibility and performance by several orders of magnitude. The Phalcon AEW&C aircraft is based on four sensors: phased-array radar, phased-array IFF, ESM/ELINT and CSM/COMINT. A unique fusion technology continuously cross-relates the data gathered by all sensors. When one of the sensors reports a detection, the system automatically initiates an active search of the complementary sensors.
The AWE&C phased array radar replaces the conventional rotodome radar. It is mounted either on the aircraft fuselage or on top of the aircraft inside a stationary dome, providing full 360° coverage. This electronically steered beam radar delivers a tremendous advantage over mechanical rotating antenna, as it supports the tracking a high maneuvering targets. The radar can detect even low flying objects from distances of hundreds of kilometers, day and night, under all weather conditions. Verification beams sent at specific, individual, newly detected targets eliminate false alarms. Moreover, track initiation is achieved in 2 to 4 seconds as compared to 20 to 40 seconds with a rotodome radar
The IFF system employs solid state phased array technology to perform interrogation, decoding, target detection and tracking. A monopulse technique is used to implement azimuth measurement. The IFF data is automatically correlated with the phased array radar.
The ESM/ELINT system receives, analyzes and locates radar signals, covering 360o. It combines high sensitivity with high probability of intercept, and achieves excellent accuracy in bearing measurement. The system uses narrow-band super-heterodyne receivers and wide-band instantaneous frequency measurement (IFM) techniques to provide very high accuracy and probability of intercept of airborne and surface emitters. Very high bearing accuracy for all received signals is achieved through Differential Time of Arrival (DTOA) measurements. The system also collects and analyzes ELINT data.
The PHALCON's CSM/COMINT receives in UHF, VHF and HF, rapidly searching for airborne, shipborne or ground communications signals of interest. Selected radio nets can be monitored for signal activity. A DF capability locates targets. Detected signals can be assigned to monitoring receivers instantaneously. The system makes extensive use of computers to reduce the load on operators.
The aircraft communicates, via its data link, with Air Defense HQ. Data from additional air defense sensors are fused to create a complete spatial picture.

The PHALCON systems can be installed on a variety of platforms, such as the Boeing 707, Boeing 767, Boeing 747, Airbus and C-130. This system has already been sold to Chile, where it is designated "Condor". Under the aegis of Defense Minister Yitzhak Mordechai and Defense Ministry Director General Ilan Biran, six agreements for cooperation between Israeli, American and European defense firms were signed on 15 October 1998. Under one of these agreements, IAI/ELTA Electronics Industries Ltd. and Raytheon Systems Company will cooperate on the development, production and marketing of AEWC&C systems on a world wide basis. The new project will be based on PHALCON. The two companies have already teamed up to compete for tenders for AEWC&C systems for Australia, South Korea and Turkey.

Available Specifications
Country of Origin Israel
Builder IAI
Role
Similar Aircraft
Wing Span 44.60 m
Wing Area 283.40 m²
Length 44.40 m
Height 12.90 m
Weight
Engine 4 x P&W JT3D-3B
Maximum speed 973 Km/h
Cruising speed
Range 6,920 Km

[Taikon@ut]

erieye will fulfill our requirements very well in the air sea or on ground, we are a smaller country we dont need a longer range like phalcon, what I dont understand is what else goodies are we getting, if the greek deal for 4 cost 500mil why is our costing 1.7 bil there must be know how for things like datalink etc being tranferred.

[thouse]

As it Stands today the Phalcon is the most Sophisticated AWAC platform in the Sky.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You seriously think that the Indian Phalcon system is more sophisticated than the E-3s operated by NATO and the USAAF?

[Saqr]

pegasus, nothing to be proud of there, India doesn't have one Phalcon, just like Pakistan doesn't have one Eireye, however, I'm pretty sure that the PAF's Eireyes will be in the air before India's Phalcon.

Lets not forget that in the future, though the Phalcon is vastly superior to the Eireye, India's going to have three Phalcons and Pakistan may have seven Eireyes, hence, it balances out.

[sorwar]

pegasus, nothing to be proud of there, India doesn't have one Phalcon, just like Pakistan doesn't have one Eireye, however, I'm pretty sure that the PAF's Eireyes will be in the air before India's Phalcon.

Lets not forget that in the future, though the Phalcon is vastly superior to the Eireye, India's going to have three Phalcons and Pakistan may have seven Eireyes, hence, it balances out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am just a little curious as to why India has ordered only three Phalcons. In a conflict bewteen India and Pakistan then it would need at the least two aircraft to provide full coverage of the airspace between the two countries. Of course, these aircraft can only stay in the air for maybe 8 hours at most and will need to be replaced with fresh aircraft to provide constant surveillance. 6 aircraft will actually be needed to provide 24 hour surveillance. maybe the Indians are still not sure whether the Phalcon is really suitable for their needs and are waiting to actually operationally test the machines before ordering any more.

[coocoocal]

great for PAF  LETS HOPE THIS TURNS OUT TO BE TRUe.. ERIEYE IS CERTAINLY SUPERIOR TO PHALCON-AEWCS..do we know on which aircraft if will be fitted?  SCREW HAWKEYE-2000..pfft

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL

1 Erieye = 10 Indian Phalcons.

[Saqr]

Got some real confirmation from Usman Shabbir from PakDef;
http://www.pakdef.in...48999#post48999

Edited by Diving Falcon, 14 July 2004 - 09:55 AM.

[pegasus]

You seriously think that the Indian Phalcon system is more sophisticated than the E-3s operated by NATO and the USAAF?

As it stands today yes. ( however India hasnt Got any Phalcons Yet) And why would the "Indian" Phalcons be different from any other Phalcons?? . The Phalcons Are not a WHOLE lot superior to the NATO Heavies but stand toe to toe and In some Aspects are Marginally Better.

pegasus, nothing to be proud of there, India doesn't have one Phalcon, just like Pakistan doesn't have one Eireye, however, I'm pretty sure that the PAF's Eireyes will be in the air before India's Phalcon

.

Im not proud of anything. I was replying to that moron who acting as if the Eierye was the greatest gift of God.

Lets not forget that in the future, though the Phalcon is vastly superior to the Eireye, India's going to have three Phalcons and Pakistan may have seven Eireyes, hence, it balances out.

am just a little curious as to why India has ordered only three Phalcons. In a conflict bewteen India and Pakistan then it would need at the least two aircraft to provide full coverage of the airspace between the two countries. Of course, these aircraft can only stay in the air for maybe 8 hours at most and will need to be replaced with fresh aircraft to provide constant surveillance. 6 aircraft will actually be needed to provide 24 hour surveillance. maybe the Indians are still not sure whether the Phalcon is really suitable for their needs and are waiting to actually operationally test the machines before ordering any more.

If you guys remmeber A few months Back India Signed a Deal with Embraer ( Sp?) of Brazil for the Re-Starting of the Indian AWAC program. The Statement said that the Indian AEW platforms will be Lesser in Capability to the Phalcons but will Suppliment the Phalcons In Air Surviellence. There was also a report that said that the Doriers will Turned into a AEW platform to operate off the Gorshkov.

The Phalcons , Indian AEW will all Function inconjunction with the GreenPine Radar System .

Also the Flying time of the PHALCON is much longer than the 8 hrs you mentioned. Well it would depend on the Fuel Capacity of the Il-78s. ( Plus dont forget Inflight Refueling ) .

Further more. The original MoU with Israel Stated that 3 Phalcons Will be bought now with an option for 3 More at a Later Date . ( Though Unlikely if the Indian AWAC Program gets underway) .

[thouse]

I was just about to post the same quote from US, but I did not know whether he would be offended at taking his words and putting them in another forum.

[thouse]

why would the "Indian" Phalcons be different from any other Phalcons?

Well any exporting nation does not export its best product out of fear of other nations knowing its secrets, so i would presume that the Indian Phalcon will not be of the same quality as the Israeli Phalcon.

The Phalcons Are not a WHOLE lot superior to the NATO Heavies but stand toe to toe and In some Aspects are Marginally Better.

While Israeli tech is very good, I would still put my money on the top-of-the-line US systems. Where do you think they get their tech from?

[pakistan_forever]

Sweden declared that they would not sell to Pakistan any weapon system.
What happened?

Greece ordered erieye on embraer airplane 600 M $ /4 awacs.

If it is true those are good news.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even Russia denied arms sale to Pakistan....

but we signed a tank production deal with them......

these guys would do anything for the $$$

[legend]

Atleast we know now..this is the big June news ACM Saadat was talking abt in response to India Phalcon deal...altho its just 2 weeks over!

[Saeed Khan]

"Remember the Phalcon has full 360 degree coverage,while the ericsson hasn't...however, also greece chose this awecs over Phalcon which definetly tells us something..Japan is also another operator..so will it be SAAB-2000,SAAB-430 or EMB-145"

Bosnian Dude, not true:

The ERIEYE AEW&C Mission System features an active phased array Doppler radar. The antenna is fixed and the radar beam is electronically scanned in 360°.

ERIEYE single, dual-sided fixed antenna unit places much less demand on aircraft size than was previously possible for high performance AEW&C systems. ERIEYE detects and tracks air and sea targets out to the horizon and beyond. Instrumental range is 450 km. Typical detection range against a fighter size target is in excess of 350 km.

ERIEYE

Coocoocal, what you wrote is called an equation you pea-brain:

1 Erieye = 10 Indian Phalcons

or, an Indian Phalcom's capability = 1/10th (10%) the capability of an Erieye

I am sure you don't mean that. Try not to feel jealous once in a while and jump up and down like a baboon but then that would be against your nature.

[pegasusflight]

phalcon is a MASSIVE system designed for a larger air force...for PAF, the
Erieye is more than enough, and will be enough to play hell with IAF plans...
remember, it is IAF that has the grand vision of air supremacy..PAF just needs
to shoot that vision down...simple...buy more phalcons..and spend years
integrating the crap together....

[visioninthedark]

lets wait and see if thie actually materialises ...

plus ... since we aren't etting the grippen ... does this mean our fighter aircraft will be further upgraded so that they can handle a datalink capability ... ???

[Saqr]

Lets not forget that this Eireye system on Saab-2000 also falls into the easy and cheap to maintain area, which is what the PAF is looking for.

[omarxizt]

If you guys remmeber A few months Back India Signed a Deal with Embraer ( Sp?) of Brazil for the Re-Starting of the Indian AWAC program. The Statement said that the Indian AEW platforms will be Lesser in Capability to the Phalcons but will Suppliment the Phalcons In Air Surviellence. There was also a report that said that the Doriers will Turned into a AEW platform to operate off the Gorshkov.

The Phalcons , Indian AEW will all Function inconjunction with the GreenPine Radar System .

Also the Flying time of the PHALCON is much longer than the 8 hrs you mentioned. Well it would depend on the Fuel Capacity of the Il-78s. ( Plus dont forget Inflight Refueling ) .

Further more. The original MoU with Israel Stated that 3 Phalcons Will be bought now with an option for 3 More at a Later Date . ( Though Unlikely if the Indian AWAC Program gets underway) .

More flying CHAPATTI? I thought that program was canned after almost all the young engineers died on the plane. That was the sole reason why India opted for Phalcon system from Israel.

[thouse]

plus ... since we aren't etting the grippen ... does this mean our fighter aircraft will be further upgraded so that they can handle a datalink capability ... ???

I thought that the Thanadaar will have a datalink capability. Not sure if it is worthwhile upgrading the F-7Ps, but the PGs, Rose Mirages and Falcons might be updated.

[Saqr]

Usman Shabbir confirmed it, and the deal is to be signed within a couple of days.

[PakiPatriot]

Sweden might have denied us weapons, but these most certainly are not weapons.
InshaAllah this news will turn out to be true and there will be no hurdles

[fiaz]

My advice is don't get to excited until at least the deal is SIGNED. Remember what the Swedish Foreign Minister said, they havn't said anything publicly about the deal. I hope it's true, though..

[pakibath]

I would also say so. The reason being SAAB 2000 was never integrated with Eireye. Plus Eieye is integrated with grippen we dont know how it can be compatable with our existing aircrafts of french origin and what will it take to change things. We might have to wait few days until we can see things clearly

[Web Master]

I emailed Erickson Public Relations. Here is what they said

"The stated news is correct"

Edited by Web Master, 14 July 2004 - 01:17 PM.