109 replies to this topic

[CrackRomeo]

Also I guess for second hand equipment that is not operational this price tag is very hefty. Compare the price with a new PLZ45.
Also keeping in view the history of affairs with US we should have opted for chinese equipment, even if it was a little less sophisticated or state of art.

[Saqr]

When you need to make an edit on your post; use the edit button.

These are second hand guns lying in storage and are not in operational condition. US has refused to operationalize them because of huge costs expected. PA officials thought that they can operationalize them locally based on their experience with M109A2. But heard that engineering team that went to inspect was also not very happy with their condition.

These are howitzers not fighter planes we're talking about right? And did Pakistan even sign a deal for these howitzers; if so how the hell did it get them in less than two months?

[M1Tanker]

These are second hand guns lying in storage and are not in operational condition. US has refused to operationalize them because of huge costs expected. PA officials thought that they can operationalize them locally based on their experience with M109A2. But heard that engineering team that went to inspect was also not very happy with their condition.

First, remember that these are M109A5s. This is a very new item. There are still M109A4s floating around the US Army.

While they may be in storage, it was probably in some neat-o storage facility. There is at least two divisions of heavy armor in the Kuwaiti desert. That stuff is VERY well preserved. A lot of the stuff is much nicer then the operational stuff because it was parked there since it was new. Some of the items in the desert have been there since 1990.

"The M109A5 howitzer gives the customer the maximum flexibility to tailor modifications to meet desired missions requirements. It can accommodate future technology and is economical to purchase, operate, and maintain. The M109 family of howitzers continues to be improved to generate additional operational capabilities and cost savings for the customer. It continues to be backed by the extensive life-cycle sustainment support of the weapon's proponent.

The FMS price is $292,721 per howitzer, and excludes packaging, handling, crating and transportation costs. The howitzers are being offered in "as is-where-is" condition. Some of the vehicles may have visible signs of wear and corrosion and various shades of paint; but all of them are rendered serviceable, structurally sound, and are economically reparable. Further, the howitzers may be missing: Components of End Item (COEI); Basic Issue Items (BII); Auxiliary Equipment; and other Additional Authorized List (AAL) type items; be in excess of hour/mileage standards; and may not have applicable publications/records. Therefore, a Joint Visual Inspection (JVI), by country personnel, is strongly recommended to determine if the allocated Long Supply Howitzers meet customer’s specifications/standards. Most of the howitzers are stored inside at one location in the United States for the recommended JVI (at this location, the vehicles are currently stored in a humidity controlled environment).

The M109A5 howitzers can be brought to a Fully Mission Capable (FMC) Standard prior to delivery for an additional cost. This option can be achieved at the current storage facility prior to shipment. This Program ensures that all of the howitzer's systems and subsystems are fully operational and standards are met in accordance to the Operational Preventative Maintenance Checks and Services (PMCS) of 10/20 Manuals. Oil samples will be taken and analyzed from the engines, transmissions, and hydraulic systems to ensure that these systems are in good shape and do not have any detectable problems. The traversing, elevation, fire control, rammer, personnel heater, gun mount, and cannon systems will be checked for proper operation and repaired as needed."

link

Tanky* ®

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Damn. Look here for help.

[jani]

i also feel that PN needs hole lot of these howitzers but from china.

[Dizasta]

i also feel that PN needs hole lot of these howitzers but from china.

Umm ..... i think you mean PA (Pakistan Army) and not PN (Pakistan Navy), right!!???

[GreenBeret]

Umm ..... i think you mean PA (Pakistan Army) and not PN (Pakistan Navy), right!!???

lol..give him a break man...im sure he meant army

[jani]

yes obviouslly i meant army there is no way u questioned me if u have some brain in ur head every body makes mistakes it dosent mean some one keep saying u make the mistake specially stranger like u

[azharsaadat]

Whats the latest information on 115 M109A5 Self-Propelled Howitzers for Pakistan.
Like did we get them and also whats new for artillery.
India did get somech rockets from Russia, are we getting any rocket system from someone to counter it

[Alkhalid-19]

Whats the latest information on 115 M109A5 Self-Propelled Howitzers for Pakistan.
Like did we get them and also whats new for artillery.
India did get somech rockets from Russia, are we getting any rocket system from someone to counter it

yes protetc own position better with Sandsacks and Bunkers use more Camoflage like that here:







and search the enemy fire Postion with a fire locator radar

to counter it with a AIR-strike

[saleemraja]

What crap. US needs to keep selling us crap so that they can keep their people in employment and give 10% to corrupt people. We don't need this sh*t weapon systems when we can make our own. We need light easily portable rocket artillery rather than these monstrous and prehistoric iron mongery. Where do we get these decison makers from? New Delhi or New York?

[halfemtysoul]

What crap. US needs to keep selling us crap so that they can keep their people in employment and give 10% to corrupt people. We don't need this sh*t weapon systems when we can make our own. We need light easily portable rocket artillery rather than these monstrous and prehistoric iron mongery. Where do we get these decison makers from? New Delhi or New York?

Your a goddamned idiot for sure.

[jamal18]

These are very useful pieces of kit, standard nato issue.

Being second hand makes them cheaper.

There is a 'M' series rebuid factory at HIT that can maintain them.

I make it 18 per regiment, roughly 10 regiments worth of artillery.

[ZPak]

So have we received any of these goodies yet or no?

[HAROON RASOOL]

Would someone dare to answer the question below?

What is the current status of the procurement of the 115 M109A5 Self-Propelled Howitzers and the up-gradation of the existing 150 M109A2 Self-Propelled Howitzers in our arsenal?

We don't have any information on this issue since Friday Dec 16 2005

The Story goes like this:

U.S. moves to sell howitzers to Pakistan
By Jim Wolf

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration said on Friday it tentatively planned to let Pakistan buy 115 155mm self-propelled howitzer artillery pieces as well as related gear and services valued at up to $56 million.

Source: http://news.yahoo.co...kistan_usa_dc_1

[Mangla]

What crap. US needs to keep selling us crap so that they can keep their people in employment and give 10% to corrupt people. We don't need this sh*t weapon systems when we can make our own. We need light easily portable rocket artillery rather than these monstrous and prehistoric iron mongery. Where do we get these decison makers from? New Delhi or New York?

Shows your lack of understanding of the capibilities of SP artillary. Overwhelming majority of military thinkers would argue for mix force of traditional artillary and rocket ones. Why because both have their own strengths and weakenesess. They complement each other.

[GreenBeret]

Would someone dare to answer the question below?

Dare?

Its about inside links for getting inside news man i.e. if the procurement isnt made public

[maverick1977]

Dare?

Its about inside links for getting inside news man i.e. if the procurement isnt made public

Pakistan has M019s for last 20 yrs, HIT should have reverse engineered it and mass produced it... ?? any comments on why it hasnt been done ?

[Alkhalid-19]

Pakistan has M019s for last 20 yrs, HIT should have reverse engineered it and mass produced it... ?? any comments on why it hasnt been done ?

yes man why not ?

[THE FIGHTING FALCON]

We make pretty good tanks why the hell cant v give these artillery pieces a try!?

[saleemraja]

If majority of military thinkers argue for howitzers does it make them right? Majority of military thinkers didn't think the tank or plane was a good idea when they were first conceived. We need to think beyond copying what others have and start building weapons to our needs and requirements. Rocket artillery is easily guided , easily manufactured and you can vary the range and payload. Its alot more flexible than howitzer shells. We can use them with laser targeting , satellie positioning etc.
I can carry on to right a book on why rocket artillery is better.

Shows your lack of understanding of the capibilities of SP artillary. Overwhelming majority of military thinkers would argue for mix force of traditional artillary and rocket ones. Why because both have their own strengths and weakenesess. They complement each other.

[ali23]

HIT isn't mass producing them because there are other better local artillery products that will be available in two-three years.Please don't ask me which product.Guess yourself.

[Mangla]

If majority of military thinkers argue for howitzers does it make them right? Majority of military thinkers didn't think the tank or plane was a good idea when they were first conceived. We need to think beyond copying what others have and start building weapons to our needs and requirements. Rocket artillery is easily guided , easily manufactured and you can vary the range and payload. Its alot more flexible than howitzer shells. We can use them with laser targeting , satellie positioning etc.
I can carry on to right a book on why rocket artillery is better.

Equally someone could write a book on why howitzers are still effective. Rocket artillary have been around for along time, the strengths and weakness have been obseved. Your comparison with tanks and aircraft is not valid because some F 4 Phantom designers thought leaving out cannons in favour on relying on missiles was a good idea. Rocket artillary has a longer range and will continue too, still Germany tested out 155mm shells to a range of 70km. Laser targeting can be done by conventional artillary. Rocket artillary when used on mass against a target it is very effective. Whearas traditional artillary allows sustained fire over a longer period. Like I said both systems have their advantages. Both have their place in any army.

I wish would do more copying of other systems. I understand the need to innovate but with a third world budget this is not possible, however copying and improving is possible.

[HAROON RASOOL]

@ Ali23

Do you mean Chinese PLZ-45 155mm self-propelled howitzers?

What about 155MM 52CALIBRE Panter Modern Towed Turkish Howitzer?



But I like the most is Archer - FH 77 BW L52 from BAE Systems
Deployable in only 30 seconds with no personnels outside the system

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

[vijaytripoli]

Whats the latest information on 115 M109A5 Self-Propelled Howitzers for Pakistan.
Like did we get them and also whats new for artillery.
India did get somech rockets from Russia, are we getting any rocket system from someone to counter it

hello friend. the rocket system is called Smerch with a 90km range!
chau

[ali23]

To Haroon Rasool:

Its a little different but much better.Wait for 2-3 more years.

[HAROON RASOOL]

According to my arbitrary source of information, we do have the new Self Propelled Howitzers from the US. Any one to negate this, you're most welcome.

[HAROON RASOOL]

To Haroon Rasool:

Its a little different but much better.Wait for 2-3 more years.

Do you mean the Turkish-built T-155 Firtina 155mm self-propelled howitzer of the Turkish Army?

[ThE_UnReAcHaBLe]

According to my arbitrary source of information, we do have the new Self Propelled Howitzers from the US. Any one to negate this, you're most welcome.

When did we get these systems ? any dates ?

[HAROON RASOOL]

When did we get these systems ? any dates ?

Sorry mate I have been told to be cool and not to be hyper over this issue and have faith.

http://www.dsca.osd....istan_06-12.pdf

http://washingtonind..._Arms_Sales.pdf

[ali23]

We have american systems since 80's and haroon rasool the weapon is not turkish.It is something else.Just wait for two more years and don't ask anymorer questions.Sorry mate.