1002 replies to this topic

[goodman]

if the PAF ever faced conflict with india, would the PAF arm there F-16s to carry the SD-10???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No,US won't give software code for that and i think PAK F-16s r too old to take any modifications.And then why use Falcon if u have other sources....

[Dizasta]

I've got a question for you. What i wana know is that the An-225 Antonov, is it still flying & that if they are, then are the russians using them as the heavy lift military transport aircraft. And if there are any countries that operate this giant. Last but not the least, is the C-5 Galaxy bigger than the An-225. Plus ... what is the code name that NATO gave the An-225??????????

Thanks!!

[Kabul Hitman]

An225 is called 'Cossack' by NATO. Some were supposedly flying cargo into Iraq for construction companies.

[goodman]

I've got a question for you. What i wana know is that the An-225 Antonov, is it still flying & that if they are, then are the russians using them as the heavy lift military transport aircraft. And if there are any countries that operate this giant. Last but not the least, is the C-5 Galaxy bigger than the An-225. Plus ... what is the code name that NATO gave the An-225??????????

Thanks!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is only one operational AN-225 and only that one was produce by the russian.And i think it is the biggest,even bigger than C-5

[Dizasta]

So basically no one has taken any interest in procuring this giant, eversince it was made. Tell me, does Pakistan need a heavy lift capabilitywith heavywieghts like the C-17 Globemaster, the C-5 Galaxy, or this giant the An-225 Cossack. Or would Pakistan get the newer version of hercules, the C-130J!??

[Jimmy Jimmy]

I thought An-225 was called Mriya???

[thouse]

To the Q that nobody has taken an interest to produce an A/C with the Mirya's capability .

The Mirya was produced for basically one purpose, to transport the Soviet space shuttle. In the US, the same job was done by a modified 747. SInce the Soviets could not buy a 747 at the time, they decided to create the Mirya. With the demise of the Shuttle program, there was no need for a AC of this size.

The Russian army seems to have made clear that they prefer the smaller craft. Could be for numerous reasons, e.g., shorter T/O and landing strip needed. no need for that large a transport, less loss of life if AC goes down (don't keep all your eggs in one basket doctrine).

I guess the Mirya is like the Concord, may be technically impressive, but not commercially viable.

[usman1]

Q 1 what does we mean by fly by war technology(maybe i am wrong but something like that)
Q2 what does we exactly mean by BVR capability(i know it means beyond visual range but a little detail required)
Q3 How effective is the composite material in stealth

[viper007]

Q 1  what does we mean by fly by war technology(maybe i am wrong but something like that)
Q2  what does we exactly mean by BVR capability(i know it means beyond visual range but a little detail required)
Q3 How effective is the composite material in stealth

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FBW-

Fly-by-wire is a technology used to make aircrafts easy to fly and sometimes also to make ustable designs flyable.

Normal aircrafts like say a MiG-21, uses direct pilot input to the stick which is fed to the control surfaces through pure hydraulics. So the aircraft behaves exactly as you control the stick. This is a negative point as sometimes, u may overstress the frame of the aircraft during high-g maneuvering.

The first FBW was developed on a test-bed F-8-II Crusader aircraft - it was an analog FBW.

The first purely digital FBW aircraft to hit the air force was the legendry F-16 Viper. It was an unstable design, meaning that it could not fly straight without constant trimming of controls. So a computer Flight Control System was developed which took inputs from various control surfaces, as well as the pilot's stick and then maneuvered the plane accordingly within its limits.

In the F-16, a few mm of stick displacement is enough to put the Viper in maximum turn rate. Its damn sensitive !!! F-117 also used an advanced FBW coz it was unstable as well.

In Mirage-2000, the FBW has a different role. Delta design is not unstable, but it has inherent flaws, like low-sustained performance, long land-takeoff distances etc.

What Dassault did was that they shifted the Centre of lift forward of the Centre of Gravity, so the Mirage became unstable as the nose always wanted to pitch up. A 100% digital FBW was developed to control the plane. With an digital FBW, u can extract the maximum out of an aircraft at particular parameteres. Mirage FBW is optimised for alpha demand below 250 kts and g-demand above it.

Some planes are neutrally stable like the F-15, but u can install FBW to make them more responsive and easier to fly. To extract the maximum out of Flanker series fighters, u can turn the FBW off with a switch and do all the wild stuff like Cobra and stuff.

Remember that while FBW makes planes easy to fly, it restricts u from taking the fighter to the hilt during combat. Dats why PAF viper drivers think of F-7 as a very potent adversary. Experienced pilots in aircrafts like MiG-21 can make a mess of any fighter. But Flanker series fighter allow u to switch the FBW off, which every aircraft does not allow.

BTW, nowdays even throttle is digitally controlled as in Su-37. U don't push or pull the throttle, but u press a switch back and forth, and it settles to neutral on its own - like a two way switch with spring.


BVR-

Beyond-Visual Range Combat begins after 20-25 Kms (a little more than that). But today with NBVR missiles (Near-BVR), u can say it begins at 30-35 Kms. It mostly utilises Radar guided missiles (some which need parent aircraft's radar like AIM-7 and some which are independently guided to some extent like AIM-120). Some missiles like R-27 also feature an Infra-red guidance for BVR. The longest range missile to arm a fighter was the AIM-54 Phoenix for use against soviet bombers.

BVR missiles started in Vietnam but no actual BVR combat happened till Gulf War. The problem was IFF (Identification Friend or Foe), they could not make out enemies and allies. So they had to visually confirm which negated the BVR advantage.

Practical fighter-fighter BVR begins at 20 kms and is not likely to go beyond 60 Kms (which is an aggressive range). The reason is that a missile like AIM-120 with a 60-70 Kms range cannot hit targets at max-range. The enemy will make a wide-turn (BEAM) or turn back to evade the missile. So kill-zone BVR does not go beyond 40-50 kms, that too in case of missiles like AIM-120, R-77 and R-27. Missiles like Derby, MICA and Super-530D have even shorter kill-zones.

If u want, u can ask for specific details, coz this topic is really huge. Some people who come to know about it straight away think that it rocks and WVR is over. But only with knowledge and experience u will learn how it is implemented in Combat.


Composites-

Modern Stealth fighters employ contouring for Stealthy design, not edges like in F-117. So that is not possible without composites. And it has less reflectivity when compared to titanium or alumunium. But more important factor is contouring, which makes aircraft aerodynamically good and also stealthy.



VIPER

[usman1]

thanks for your reply SIR!!!

[viper007]

thanks for your reply SIR!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anytime !!! Don't call me SIR , there are other and bigger sirs on this forum, u don't want too many SIRs around !!!

VIPER

[thouse]

What is the difference in capabilities b/w PAF ROSE Mirages and IAF M2Ks. I know that both are optimized for strike missions, but how much more lethal is the M2K in terms of payload and munitions and radar?

[viper007]

What is the difference in capabilities b/w PAF ROSE Mirages and IAF M2Ks.  I know that both are optimized for strike missions, but how much more lethal is the M2K in terms of payload and munitions and radar?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a thread 'Comparison between ROSE and IAF M2K'.

I have posted a lot of stuff there about this topic, check it out. It must be on 2nd or third page.

VIPER

[starfighter104]

i have a qustion....
how come the prise of K-8 as much as the Fc-1's

K-8= 15-20million$$$
Fc-1= 15-20$$

[Saadi]

what is 9g and being able to pull at 9gs for an extended period of time
what does it exactly means
can someone plz tell me

[Saqr]

starfighter104

Actually no.

JF-17 costs 15-20mn USD a piece, but K-8 costs a mere 4-8mn USD a piece.

Saadi

Gs means G-Forces, or how many Gravitational Forces a pilot can sustain. When flying at high altitudes and doing sharp turns and manuvers in the sky, a pilot must sustain G-Forces. To do that, the pilot needs a G-Suit, which helps balance the body out in such flights.

Someone can explain better than me, but to understand G-Forces vaguely enough to know what we're talking about, then my explaination is good.

[_saad_]

thanks diving falcon for clearing out thing for me on gs
is there any way i can cancel my account

[Saqr]

thanks diving falcon for clearing out thing for me on gs
is there any way i can cancel my account

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whats up with your old account? Anyways, just ask the Webby to delete your old account and let you keep your present one.

No Prob.

[viper007]

what is 9g  and being able to pull at 9gs for an extended period of time
what does it exactly means
can someone plz tell me

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just to add to Diving's decription -

U can experience G even if u don't turn too much. A simple bank of 20 degrees is enough to put a strain of 2-3 g on u which is not quite disturbing. A normal man cannot hold it for more than 5-6 G. But with relaxing exercises and suits, u can do 9+ Gs.

When u r experiencing G forces, ur weight become multiplied by the number of G-forces. That is, if u r facing 5 G and u weigh 50 kg, u will actually feel as if u r 250 Kgs. Due to it, the blood rushes down, and lack of blood in brain causes a total black-out and muscles don't work. To come out of it, u should release controls and relax to gain vision and control.

In negative G-forces (which are not tolerable to the extent positive ones are), the blood rushes to the head and causes a red-out. It can do severe damage to eyes and other parts. It generally happens in a forceful, upright dive. That is why aircrafts generally roll-over and pull back to dive, which does not cause this strain.

VIPER

[starfighter104]

starfighter104

Actually no.

JF-17 costs 15-20mn USD a piece, but K-8 costs a mere 4-8mn USD a piece.

Saadi

Gs means G-Forces, or how many Gravitational Forces a pilot can sustain.  When flying at high altitudes and doing sharp turns and manuvers in the sky, a pilot must sustain G-Forces.  To do that, the pilot needs a G-Suit, which helps balance the body out in such flights. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wronge diving falcon!!! i have got the intorduction of K-8 from the pakistanidefence

Introduction

The K-8 offers a state-of-art training platform for the pilots of the Pakistan Air Force. It is a milestone in the long history of close cooperation and technical collaboration between Pakistan and China. The $20 million K-8 advanced jet trainer has been jointly designed and produced by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Kamra and China's Nanchang Aircraft Manufacturing Company (NAMC) and is manufactured at NAMC. Pakistan had earlier unilaterally developed a similar aircraft, but sought a partnership with China to further advance production and technology standards of that aircraft.


it is not 6-8 million $$$$ it is

20 MILLION$$$$!!!!

[Saqr]

starfighter104

Pakistani Defence's (no offense to Pakistani Defence) K-8 Page is outdated, the latest price I've seen on AFM is 4-8mn USD a piece.

[starfighter104]

starfighter104

Pakistani Defence's (no offense to Pakistani Defence) K-8 Page is outdated, the latest price I've seen on AFM is 4-8mn USD a piece.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wattt!!!!

then can u show us the site where u have got the info from....

[Saqr]

wattt!!!!

then can u show us the site where u have got the info from....

Its in an article scanned by some guy, I'll look for it.

[amaccpc]

it is not 6-8 million $$$$ it is

20 MILLION$$$$!!!!

u mean it is 20 USD million for a K8 u must be lidding me

[Dream Guy]

K8 is not more than 6 to 8 m dollars.

[_killuminati_]

Why doesn't Pak invest in and try to develop their own radars & avionics?

[amaccpc]

but i think l39 second hand is 5~6 millions which is more better than k8

[thouse]

There is a thread 'Comparison between ROSE and IAF M2K'.

I have posted a lot of stuff there about this topic, check it out. It must be on 2nd or third page.

VIPER

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks

[_saad_]

To extract the maximum out of Flanker series fighters, u can turn the FBW off with a switch and do all the wild stuff like Cobra and stuff.viper said that can anyone plz tell me whats that

[leuitenentcolonel]

QUESTION


WAT ARE H2 AND H4 ACTUALLY A2G BUT OF WAT PURPOSE AND ARE THEY IN UNDERPRODUCTION

[viper007]

To extract the maximum out of Flanker series fighters, u can turn the FBW off with a switch and do all the wild stuff like Cobra and stuff.viper said that can anyone plz tell me whats that

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saad,

The FBW in Flankers limits the aircraft to a certain AoA. But the Flanker can actually go beyond that AoA. So thats why there is a switch to release that control.

F/A-18 can actually do a lot of high apha maneuvers but the FBW limits it, coz it might cross a limit where airframe is not able to tolerate the stress.

VIPER

[_saad_]

does anybody has a video of a flanker doing that wild stuff viper was talking about

[Best of the Best]

does anybody has a video of a flanker doing that wild stuff viper was talking about

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

saad you can find a flanker video doing that stuff easily from google by the way i will try to find one for you secondly you might be able to find that video on defence vidoes the topic is pinned

[Jimmy Jimmy]

Can any one tell me the Difference between Mupsow & A-to-A Missile???

[Eyec0n]

I have more of a question of politics than anything else. Tiawan I remember was denied by the us from getting advanced aircraft because of whatever reason. Later when IDF was inducted, and it was seen that Tiawan had the capability to make advanced aircraft, they were able to buy advanced aircraft from the us.

My question is that if Pakistan inducts Jf-17 and maybe gets J-10, what impact would it have on PAF ability to get its hands on more advanced western aircraft? I know most people are gonna say we dont need it, but we do...

[Eyec0n]

Can any one tell me the Difference between Mupsow & A-to-A Missile???

I believe Mupsow is a S. African a2g munition.

Taken from Global Security:

Mupsow is a multi-purpose, surgical-strike weapon, designed to neutralize enemy targets such as airfields, bunkers and command-and-control centres at stand-off ranges. Pinpoint accuracy is achieved through an advanced navigation and terminal guidance system.

Hope that answered your question

[Jimmy Jimmy]

I believe Mupsow is a S. African a2g munition.

Taken from Global Security:
Hope that answered your question

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Eyeon
Why r they called Mupsows they canbe simply called A2G ?

[Eyec0n]

Simply a nickname...

[hawkeye-01]

[_saad_]

another of my childish question can someone plz tell me what are hardpoints
and how many does jf-17 has compared to lca