30 replies to this topic

[butterfly]

http://www.liveleak....=22f_1411220248

I just watched this and am amazed at the high quality production. It was interesting to see how dedicated the foot soldiers are and the tone of their leader at 48min indicating humility. The execution of injured soldiers was unnecessary but then again they throughout the film indicated they will be soft towards the believers and harsh on the non believers. Getting a man digging his own grave to speak and denounce Asad was a master stroke. I assure you these guys are here to stay no matter what uncle Sam says. Seeing a fighter in sajood crying and glorifying Allah for victory speaks volumes and will shock many who have faith and perhaps instil fear in many who are secular.
I used to think they were butchers and didn't/don't agree with executions as mercy is what we expect from Allah and hence we should show mercy but the tactic of being totally indifferent to killing their enemies has won them many battles.
Anyway's watch and see what you make of it.

I personally have no clear view on ISIS. Palestine burns and they seem to be heading in a different direction. Do they want a consolidated state before tackling Israel? Who knows?

[platinum786]

Bro I don't know if you've seen similar material from other groups, but in my teens I watched quite a bit of this as i discovered the internet and was too niave to know the possible side effects of watching such material (being flagged on "intelligence" lists). This is outstanding in it's production quality, but realistically the material/content is the same. In this video ISIS appear righteous and undefeatable, but so have so many others in so many other videos.

 

You have to consider the context of it, it's propaganda, it fails to mentions its mostly killed Muslims whilst making out they're fighting Americans. It's the same as Taliban videos, mainly killed Pakistanis in masjids and bazars, but make out like they're holding the sky up.

 

You can only know if someone is righteous when you consider whether thier actions are what the Prophet Muhammad pbuh would have done.

[rungroot]

the American military industrial complex needs a formidable boogey man to keep itself sustained economically. But the boogey man needs to be defeatable. The real adversary like Russia or China are undefeatable. So first came the al qaeda but withered away. Now, in comes the isis...

Butterfly bro,

Don't fall for this horse manure!!!

[SLD10]

I don't like watching any of their propaganda !

So I won't watch it.

What I can say is : we must stop to post links of their propaganda on this forum !!!!

This forum is accessible to young people, soft heart people, and also simple minde people. This kind of link can be found on internet through google etc, but giving then directely here is not intelligent.

I appologize if I hurt anyone. We have to stop to propagate this extreemist terrorist propaganda !

Many thanks to think about it.

[butterfly]

Yes you are correct. This is the first video I have seen with this type of material. Impressive but I am old enough to know that this is propaganda. I do however firmly believe that both ISIS and the west are using such material to propagate their own agenda. In the daily news we don't hear the truth either. I often wonder is a man whose throat is cut by a knife is so barbaric and an aircraft bomb that kills hundreds on the ground so justifiable? The end result is death. In the case of the knife......1 death (usually innocent), in the case of the western aircraft hundreds (usually innocent). We all seem to accept one but gasp at the other. Still I pray that Allah protects us and guides us Ameen.

If you guys think this link shouldn't have been posted then please remove it.

[platinum786]

I don't mind the presence of the link. It's a discussion forum hopefully we can engage young members who watch it, help them understand the difference between the narrative and the reality. The media coverage is full of the same lies and half truths. How was the plight of the Yazidis trapped on the mountain any different to the plight of the Palestinians in Gaza?

[butterfly]

Exactly. But when Muslims are being murdered it seems ok. Even in Europe when Serbs were massacring Bosnians it took years for the west to take action. As for Palestine no one and in mean no one cares. May Allah help them.

[SLD10]

I didńt say we should not engage discussion but some material should not be utilized with everyone.

[butterfly]

I didńt say we should not engage discussion but some material should not be utilized with everyone.

Bro your intentions are good. I think if people want to find material they can do a lot worse than this video I am sure. Also I don't think anyone thinks that you are against discussion.

[clutch]

I don't like watching any of their propaganda !

So I won't watch it.

What I can say is : we must stop to post links of their propaganda on this forum !!!!

This forum is accessible to young people, soft heart people, and also simple minde people. This kind of link can be found on internet through google etc, but giving then directely here is not intelligent.

I appologize if I hurt anyone. We have to stop to propagate this extreemist terrorist propaganda !

Many thanks to think about it.

Agree 100%

Dont fall for the isis khawariji bull...

[butterfly]

I think propaganda is used by all sides. In order to get a full picture one must see all. As i said before, both sides commit henious crimes against humanity. Have we forgotten pictures from abu gharaib? Gitmo, israeli wwar crimes justified by cnn bbc etc? Why not stop watching their propaganda too. I think most people are smart enough to make informed choices. Stifling choice only means people will look elsewhere but it wont stop them. If u have nothinb to hide then be open.

[SLD10]

First of all I thank you all for this respectfull discussion.

Agreed for all heinous crime from both side. But we know that tis kind of organization bring more destruction in our own countries using our very one people. Everyone saw what did ttp and co in Pakistan ! And everyone know TTp was funded by our own eenemies ! Each time our enemies create monster like ttp, isis and co and few time later these monsters get out of control...and then these monsters implement their own agenda with moree or less foreigns one.

So keeping this kind of links on our side could to some extent have impact own our brothers and sisters with little understanding, being more or less influencable... Etc we have to keep in mind that side effect as Pakistanidefence forums are as other forums a kind of media. And for this reason we have to bee very carefull.

It is our responsabilities to fight every propaganda which could have a destructor side effect on our country : Pakistan ! This country for which my grandperents gave their life !!!

[clutch]

The way I look at all these terrorist groups and all the senseless death and destruction is as follows:
1. We are living in the last age before the physical imergence of dejaal.
2. We are living in the age of fithna
3. We are witnessing what the prophet stated that there will be senseless killing and war/murder... where the killer wont really know why he is killing and the person dying wont know why he/she was killed.
4. The imergence of the khawaarij fithna (ie. Extremists who outwardly look like Muslims but inside have not even an ounce of faith)... and are distinguished by their brutality.
5. The death of arabs on a large acale.
6. At this period.. ALL groups are wrong and will lead people astray. .. the Prophet advised to move away to preserve you deen.


Isis is the embodiment of evil mentioned above.

[lamdacore]

I watched the whole video and it got me thinking. The IS sure did make a breakthrough by consolidating their gains in Iraq and Syria. BUT their biggest mistake is that they alienated the people and the world with their actions. This shows that they are either suicidal or politically inept.

 

What would have further helped them is that if they did secure large territories of Iraq and Syria where they controlled oil refineries and other important national assets, they should have started political engagements with say Russia or China. Sure these countries would not recognize them at the global level but if the IS had given them a hint of selling cheap oil and granting them special favors then they would had a strong force backing them. Who on earth does not want oil??

 

The current bombing campaign led by the US is good fortunte for the IS, if we are to analyze the aim of IS i.e. they want to draw the western powers into conflict and fight them as per their video. This is what they want and that is why they havent following such policies.

 

However, I think IS is unfortunate because they dont seem to be over zealous and over confident strongly believing that Allah is on their side and they can do anything. As the coalition gets stronger and ground troops are introduced, things can be a real bummer for IS.

 

But then again, Allah knows best and time will only tell who will win. If it is the IS....I guess we have no choice but to accept them.

[butterfly]

I watched the whole video and it got me thinking. The IS sure did make a breakthrough by consolidating their gains in Iraq and Syria. BUT their biggest mistake is that they alienated the people and the world with their actions. This shows that they are either suicidal or politically inept.
 
What would have further helped them is that if they did secure large territories of Iraq and Syria where they controlled oil refineries and other important national assets, they should have started political engagements with say Russia or China. Sure these countries would not recognize them at the global level but if the IS had given them a hint of selling cheap oil and granting them special favors then they would had a strong force backing them. Who on earth does not want oil??
 
The current bombing campaign led by the US is good fortunte for the IS, if we are to analyze the aim of IS i.e. they want to draw the western powers into conflict and fight them as per their video. This is what they want and that is why they havent following such policies.
 
However, I think IS is unfortunate because they dont seem to be over zealous and over confident strongly believing that Allah is on their side and they can do anything. As the coalition gets stronger and ground troops are introduced, things can be a real bummer for IS.
 
But then again, Allah knows best and time will only tell who will win. If it is the IS....I guess we have no choice but to accept them.

Very interesting analysis.
Bro they didnt need to execute hostages. By showing them in orange jump suits and showing mercy. Engaging the east and west against asad they would have made it difficult for the west to bomb them. Inviting the world to see peace under their command with tough but fair laws. They would have attracted even more followers and consolidated their gains. Once strong they then could have challenged the real enemy Israel. But i think they are politically inept.

[SLD10]

The fact remains, they are killing...

[butterfly]

The fact remains, they are killing...

Who isn't. The west has killed a lot more.

[lamdacore]

Very interesting analysis.
Bro they didnt need to execute hostages. By showing them in orange jump suits and showing mercy. Engaging the east and west against asad they would have made it difficult for the west to bomb them. Inviting the world to see peace under their command with tough but fair laws. They would have attracted even more followers and consolidated their gains. Once strong they then could have challenged the real enemy Israel. But i think they are politically inept.

 

You are absolutely right but this seems to be a strategy on their part to drag western powers into the conflict and we can see that happening.

 

On the other hand, someone I met made a very interesting point and could be one angle to view this issue. This person claimed that the IS should be rebranded as American Islamic State (AIS). I found it funny but it seems quite logical. The proposition is that the US is using the Saudis the same way they used Pakistan to build proxy forces. This is quite suitable to the Saudis considering they get a chance to control a Shia dominated neighborhood using such proxy forces. It would be an exceptional tool since it would keep Iran engaged. IS to Saudi Arabia is just like the Taliban is to Pakistan.

 

US interests are to keep the region destabilized to ensure and probably has many deals with the Saudis when it comes to Iraq and Syria. First, the US does not want to engage Syria but really needs to cripple the country for decades to come to protect Israel. If you notice the recent bombing campaigns, they are selectively targeting national assets and taking shots at other opportune targets.

 

Whats more, the US and Saudi Arabia are creating a situation where ground troops will become mandatory to control Iraq and Syria. These are pretexts for a new form of occupation. I wouldnt be surprised if Sunni troops get involved in the conflict.

 

It is interesting at how some people work and create tools that can change the future of a region. The US tells Saudis to train AIS and brainwash them to commit crimes that are viewed extremely negatively in the West. And to train the AIS further to engage the west in combat openly thus making a solid case to intervene. While the Saudis benefit by destabilizing the Shia neighbors.

 

If we are to go with this narrative then it is a very evil plan and one that people would not see through very often.

[SLD10]

Butterfly,

That is exactely what I wanted you say : "west is also killing"

But what we are forgetting is : western powers are killing our own people, and terrosists like ttp, aq, isis and co are killing our own people too.

So I repeat : the fact remains : they are killing !

Those so called and self calling "islamic" are just killing to get power nothing nothing less !

[SLD10]

Oh I just read Lamdacore brother' post.

It's well explained and exactely what I said in a non very clear manner.

[butterfly]

In summation if Shia's and Sunni's keep fighting each other then both the west and east sell weapons to both sides and make money. At the same time Islam as a unit weakens and Israel benefits. Excellent plan. Problem however is that with such evil there is rarely a success. Allah subhan u Talla usually has a plan of his own. Who would have thought the mighty US would be humiliated in Iraq and Afghanistan after great speeches of victory by George Bush.

Personal view. I feel Allah is using a sieve to shake us Muslims and maybe the good ones will remain to fight the good fight. We after all don't deserve any help from Allah with the way we conduct ourselves. I feel just like when the mongols destroyed Baghdad and went all the way to Egypt only to then become one of the greatest muslin dynasties that the same is happening all over. Of course the killing is much more the weapons much deadlier and the methods more decisive. I personally feel from the ashes of this war will emerge a great Muslim state. Inshallah.

[Dizasta]

ISIS is nothing more than a conglomeration of Salafis/Wahhabis, funded by Saudi-Qatari axis of evil and whom the former Baathists have joined because they had no where else to go and because ISIS have Saudi-Qatari Oil money. Also, ISIS has attracted the swarms of mindless, illiterate (having a degree doesn't make them knowledgeable on Islam or anything else for that matter) Muslim youth of the West. Of course, not all the Muslim youth of the West are like that, but the ones who are, ruin and tarnish the image for the rest.

[blueazure]

US bombed cities, but didnt en masse throat slit iraqi or german or japanese prisoners,

 

 

 

just because someone drops bombs from the sky doesnt give anyone the credibility to start on a butcher campaign

 

and btw, ISIS and FSA and all these other jihadi franchise proxies are the same elements, all work for the same ulterior motive that is to destabilize iraq and syria . all get funding from saudia arabia, qatar ,uae and military tactical help from west.

 

ISIS is a bogey man which the US is now using as a pretext to finally bomb syria

 

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butterfly, good luck with your little jihadi adventure in some syrian iraqi village, remember, always chop the head at right angle   

[butterfly]

US bombed cities, but didnt en masse throat slit iraqi or german or japanese prisoners,


No they did much worse. They set up concentration camps for Japanese in the US. They set up torture centres in Abu Ghraib and raped and sexually abused men and women, used dogs to bite and put fear into them, regularly beat them. Used torture techniques like water boarding and electrocution. But as you love the US so much it can be justified. I am totally amazed at how people close their minds, shut their eyes and do not hear when things that are wrong are staring them in the face. Why not just call a spade a spade.

[butterfly]

Dizasta bro you have said this so many times

ISIS is nothing more than a conglomeration of Salafis/Wahhabis, funded by Saudi-Qatari axis of evil.

But my question is isn't the west also an axis of evil and if so then evil is meeting evil.

I am not sure why you are against salfi's and wahabi's? What should we be? Deobandis? Shias? Jamati? Or the Manchester United Muslim club? It's too easy to criticise but it will be interesting to know what your recommendation will be as per our faith?

[SLD10]

Butterfly, so beacause west killed us so isis also has right to kill us ?

 

Is it ok for you that a muslim kill other muslim or non muslim ?

 

Salafis also cutted the throat of so many algerians... and wahabite killed also so many... all those divisions are due to our own jahiliat and lack of knowledge. and Manchester United and co have replaced the famous galdiators fight in romans time. it a trick to divert us from the real problems of life.... that' why  football, cinema etc are called divertissement in french !

[butterfly]

SLD10 ..... no what I am really trying to say is that Isis is wrong and so is the west. We must not even give the impression of condoning either. We must condemn both for their vile actions. Loss of life (any life) is unforgivable. The west pretends to represent a moral high ground by saying they use surgical strikes yet civilians keep dying and they even have a nice name for that...collateral damage. ISIS just kill civilians to make a point that they can and use it to rile the west into action. Entrapment perhaps. Now as AL Nusra say. US war on islam!

My comments on whats correct in terms of the various factions was to make us think that when we look for faults we will find them everywhere and especially in the mirror.

Hope that clarifies things.

[SLD10]

Butterfly bro, yes agreed with the fact that even west is not good at all.... but the main point is , if they are able to kill our countrymen (both civilians and military) in their so called collateral damage, it's only because of our own weakness and jahiliat.... this is the main point.

 

I think we are thinking the same thing but may be we misunderstand each other :-)

[Dizasta]

Dizasta bro you have said this so many times. ISIS is nothing more than a conglomeration of Salafis/Wahhabis, funded by Saudi-Qatari axis of evil. But my question is isn't the west also an axis of evil and if so then evil is meeting evil. I am not sure why you are against salfi's and wahabi's? What should we be? Deobandis? Shias? Jamati? Or the Manchester United Muslim club? It's too easy to criticize but it will be interesting to know what your recommendation will be as per our faith?

 

====================================================================

 

Yes I have said many times and I will continue to do so. Simply because the Salafi-Wahhabi mindset, is one which is perverse and psychotic. To the extent, that they are not ones with rationale, reasoning or logic. Rather, they operate under the M.O, that their version of Islam is the final and absolute. That any other version is "kufr" and is fair game to slaughter, kill or eliminate. 

 

These are the same people of who have infiltrated, infected and proliferated in North Africa (Libya, Tunisia), in West Africa (Chad, Nigeria), East Africa (Somalia), in Central Asia (Afghanistan, Pakistan & former Soviet Republics) and of course, in their home (Saudi-Qatari) region, the Middle East (Yemen, Iraq, Syria). And wherever they have gone, they have left carnage, slaughter and a depraved inhuman ideology. 

 

They have no real Islam, in fact they have no Islam in them, at all. Their vacant brains, wreak of Salafi-Wahhabi ideology. And their sworn enemy is the Iranian Mullah Regime. Who like them, aspire for regional and now global domination of the Islamic World. 

 

They are the same ones who won't utter a word of protest against the illegal, illegitimate and criminal state of israel. When Gaza burns, they sit silent and smile. Why? Because, Hamas, who is veritable arm of the Iranian Mullah Regime and has hijacked the Palestinian liberation .... are in power, in Gaza. Their hatred for the Iranian Mullah Regime is so much, that they ignore the biggest evil of them all, i.e, the illegal, illegitimate and criminal state of israel. In fact, they have allied themselves with the illegal, illegitimate and criminal state of israel. In a chance offering, that the illegal, illegitimate and criminal state of israel may destroy Iran's nuclear facilities. 

 

Anyone who is Muslim, knows, that even if their life depended on it. That a Muslim would not ever align, engage or accept the illegal, illegitimate and criminal state of israel. Which is the first reason why the Salafis-Wahhabis have no credibility what so ever. 

 

Another reason why the Saudi-Qatari, Salafi-Wahhabi lunacy is a disease that plagues the Islamic World. Is where they, based no authority given Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah, to them. Decide to raise the Home of Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam in Madina. On whose authority are they doing this? Is there an epidemic of housing for the locals, that they must do this? 

 

Also, these illiterate, inept, desert crawling bedouine buffoons, are actually contemplating to raise the HOLY GRAVE OF Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam. To be relocated to Jannah tul Baqqi. 

 

It's things like these and others as well, which provide sufficient evidence that the Saudi-Qatari/Salafi-Wahhabi are murtads, munafiqs and worse than a kafir. 

 

To answer your question about what should you be ...... It's simple my dear friend .... BE A MUSLIM OF THE UMMAH OF OUR BELOVED PROPHET MUHAMMAD SALLALLAHO ALAIHI WASSALLAM.

 

Follow the Sunnah of Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam. Let the Sunnah & the Holy Qur'aan guide you toward Allah Subhanaho Wata'aalah. Then you would know, that for a Muslim, the real, the actual and the most fundamental Jihad starts at the Nafs. That is the real battle a Muslim must fight and win. For if you cannot defeat the evil which usurps your Nafs. Then you would not posses the acumen, the intuitive insight, to identify and defeat the disguised enemies within the Ummah. And if you cannot do that, how could you possibly defeat the illegitimate, illegal and criminal state of israel? 

[butterfly]

Dizasta

Thank you for taking your time to reply. Indeed your summation of what we should be is correct. I make a point of saying I am just a Muslim as opposed to Shia Sunni etc. This of course leads to many questions but I have found the engagements positive alhumdulillah.

I guess we are in a time where the truth is a lie and the lie is the truth. May Allah save us all from this fitna and protect us and guide us Ameen.

[Tipu-786]

Dizasta

Thank you for taking your time to reply. Indeed your summation of what we should be is correct. I make a point of saying I am just a Muslim as opposed to Shia Sunni etc. This of course leads to many questions but I have found the engagements positive alhumdulillah.

I guess we are in a time where the truth is a lie and the lie is the truth. May Allah save us all from this fitna and protect us and guide us Ameen.

 

Ameen Suum Ameen