92 replies to this topic

[Rw #30]

salam can some 1 tell me wut is Pakistan's #1 priorority for defence and wut type of where should we get and how should we get how much and etc.

[mosaeqeh80]

Assalam-o-Alakum! I think what Pakistan needs are some good fighters (J-10s/Rafales) for PAF and some Submarines and Surface Frigates for the Navy. The Army is really good and no need to increase the fundings for the army. I think the pace at which the army is going is good.

Thanks.

[akacyclops]

Naheen yaara. Another one of these threads. Dude these topics has been discussed to death. Look around the forum before you start a thread.

[Rw #30]

ok sir aka cyclops

[mikoyan]

the best defensive system Pakistan can do ..........disband its standing army & create a reservist based one only. This will mean that no one can ever justify any act of aggression against Pak while Pak will still have access to an army if required. (Somewhat like the swiss)

[DarkAngel]

with all due respect your suggestion is quite ludicrous mikoyan.( and i assume it was sarcastic in the first place)
Do you really think any of the countires in todays world need a legal "reason" to fight?

If you ask me ICBM is still a far thing. Best thing is to develop some sort of advanced air defence system. THAT is the key to defence in todays world if you ask me.

[tank131]

The best thing for Paks defense is a good economy... if not that, than either a longrange AWACS or and ICBM/GLSV (to launch satellites for military and domestic uses).

[Humza K]

If I were in command, I would most likely speed up the SAMs. Pakistan is bare naked against those high altitude Su and MiGs the Indians have.

[3BSD]

the best defensive system Pakistan can do ..........disband its standing army & create a reservist based one only. This will mean that no one can ever justify any act of aggression against Pak while Pak will still have access to an army if required. (Somewhat like the swiss)

Heh, looks like the crack has killed a few braincells too many.

-3BSD

[mikoyan]

Nope .......i'm dead serious. I agree this sounds laughable..............if you havent thought the whole thing thru.

I havent said that Pakistan should not be well armed, just that it should reduce the standing forces to the bare minimum. The Swiss have a well armed reservist force & the Germans never bothered to invade them during WW2.

Next why would any county invade Pakistan.................it is no paradise on earth .however proud Pakistanis may feel about it. Only four contries might invade Pakistan.
1. Afghanistan.................with what
2. China.....................why they anyway make more maney out of pak than they shoud. + no ethnic similarity.
3. Iran................& get ready for a bashing from mai-baap the US among others
4. India.........why........Pak is anyway a hostile environment. There are hardly any major disagreements with Pak and the only worthwhile territorial dispute is over land which Pak doesnt even claim (Kashmir). India cant afford to take panga with the UN like the US-UK as otherwise its financial lifelines will be severed. And US, etc are not going to sit back & look around with India becoming more powerful. Result - India joins the axes of evil. No m8 India will swallow K & leave the rest of Pakistan untouched. the Indian admn is most likely to become quite pro- pak in such a situation & even declare that it will protect Pak sovreignity like it does that of Bhutan & to some extent Nepal.

[akacyclops]

the best defensive system Pakistan can do ..........disband its standing army & create a reservist based one only. This will mean that no one can ever justify any act of aggression against Pak while Pak will still have access to an army if required. (Somewhat like the swiss)

Heh, looks like the crack has killed a few braincells too many.

-3BSD

Hes drunk.

[M21sniper]

Attack helicoptors.

More than anything else, that is what Pakistan should be buying en masse. Before tanks even.

[Rw #30]

Good idea hellies but wut bout the icbm or modern technology defence system

[mmalam]

Attack helicoptors.

More than anything else, that is what Pakistan should be buying en masse. Before tanks even.

look whose talking.!

Hello!.. we arent the one not buying.. you are the one not giving.

[tank131]

There are other sources than just the US. Itally makes the Agosta Mangusta (spelling?) South Africa makes Rooviak (spelling), I believe iran makes an upgraded cobra, China probably makes one, etc. You dont always have to crall to the US. That is Pakistans problem. It sees only China (because they think its the only one available), or the US because they think Pakistan and US are still best friends. The same goes for other equipment, as Pakistan is slowly beginning to realise, (a day late and a dollar short!).

Mikoyans plan isnt entirely bad, though I dont think he knows ground realities when he talks of India swallowing up Kashmir, seeing as Kashmiris hates India, but the idea isnt all bad and he makes a few valid points. I dont think also Pakistan will ever need India to protect it. It is quite capable of defending itself, and if it does need someone, CHina is far more capable than India, and Pakistanis like China.

[ISI2003]

we should jointly (our part money, like fc-1) build attack and transport helocopters with china and

become some what self suficant in helicopter spare manufacture for these types of helicopters

this way no one can out side the country can, by limiting spares, stop our ability to fight

they already have a good program strated

[fayadeen]

we need to develop EMP technology dont you guys get it america or any other nation is a super power due to better Electronic which are easily disruppted permenantly by Electro magnetic waves. Thats all we need trust me :onlinetoolong8

[platinum786]

Well defensively we need..............

(1) A strong intergrated network of Radar and ground based AEW systems (i've heard we have ground based AWACS too) acompanied by sea skimming radar and sonar all throught out coastal water. We also must have obile radar to support specalist weapons systems.

We need to hae total knowldege of any movement in our skies and ground.

(2) Strong Sam network. Anza 1 and 2 are great for MANPADS, with stingers too.
Anza 3, Crotale & LY-60 give us good medium rane and low range cover. This cover needs to be impregnible. We must have that many that the enemy will not be able to fly low or (low)medium.

what we need to get is larger range sams in numbers for the high altitude battles.

(3) AAA guns, they are still effective and i our mountainous terrrain still would work.

(4) on the ground we need a lot of artillery and Multiple rocket launchers as well as an abundance of mobile artillery all with firefinder technology.

(5) A strong tank force is indispensible.

(6) A large fleet of modern attack choppers with some aircraft too for CAS and enemy bombardment is essential too.

[Rw #30]

better surface to air stuff

[Kelsier]

SAM's!

[M21sniper]

SAMs really give a very limited return for the investment.

I stand by the assesment that the Pak army needs as many attack helos as they can get, and the Pak AF needs a few AWACS.

Pakistan has no use for ICBM's, so why even bother?

[strategicplanner]

Best defensive weapons with the lowest cost and highest benefit would probably be anti tank/armour missiles and surface to air missiles.P.S and night vision goggles.

[michigan]

i think the most important thing that Pakistan needs are the GSLV / ICBM, altough i'm not too sure how would they justify an ICBM to the world.........................

i think army's going great, all they need is to upgrade the air force and a few interceptors...........

[Rw #30]

your right about UPGRADING the PAF and getting some hellies like apache or camanche. :SNIPER:

[M21sniper]

Cobra's are almost as good, and they are about 1/4 the price, and cost a LOT less to maintain.

If i was Pakistan, i'd be looking to add about 50-100 more Cobra's, and 3-5 A-50 Mainstays(or equivelant).

If PAF gets AWACS then their BVR disadvantadge can be greatly minimized through the use of off-bore vectors, and obviously 50-100 Cobra's is enough to tackle a thousand tanks.

[Man of Courage]

SAMs really give a very limited return for the investment.

I stand by the assesment that the Pak army needs as many attack helos as they can get, and the Pak AF needs a few AWACS.

Pakistan has no use for ICBM's, so why even bother?

SO u are afraid of Pakistan having ICBMS science they can reach America ....???? (w00t) (w00t)

[kashmiripathan]

with icbms no one will dare attack us, so the need to spend on conventional defence will reduce and the money used for the people, roads, hospitals and schools .

[American79]

SO u are afraid of Pakistan having ICBMS science they can reach America ....????     (w00t)  (w00t)

Man of Courage,

Ever heard of our ABM system.

I don't think our Govt will let you develop ICBMS. Don't even dream to nuke us.

[akacyclops]

We can develop ICBMs without US help American79. We just dont need them. There is no threat from the US. And FYI the US does not have a reliable ABM system in place.

[Rw #30]

PAk should still upgrade its fighthers and get some hellies like cobra it will ##### the indian tanks in the as$ for good. :SNIPER:

[M21sniper]

"SO u are afraid of Pakistan having ICBMS science they can reach America ....????"

Why would i be afraid of that?

First of all, Pakistan is an ally.

Second of all, if Pakistan launched an ICBM at the US, the US would launch 500 at Pakistan.

Pakistan would be a parking lot for 5000 years. No one wants that.

And just FYI, the US will have a reliable missile shield before Pakistan could develop and field ICBM's anyway...

[platinum786]

god will people get over the idea, "if we have this then this person will be no threat etc"

ICBM is a project to be completeed on the back burner, it is not a great issue, seeing as how ABM systems are being developed.


What we need to really invest in is hi tech DEFENSIVE stuff, like RADAR, SAM's, ABM's and sonar and we also need to invest in modernizing the amry, giving them as many gadgets as possible and making them very manouvirable.

Then you can invest in OFFENSIVE, defensive equipment, stuff like awacs, electronic warfare, cruise missiles, fighters, bombers, tanks, SLBM, frigates, subs with nuclear engines etc, all stuff which would make an agressive move against you a horrible mistake for ANYONE.

at the same time, stocking up on short and intermediate range missiles and both nuclear and non nuclear weapons is a great idea, make the bigger and better and more accurate.

Or how about designing something like the MOAB, if that hit an airfield imagine the impact!!! and it's non nuclear.

we also need to invest in space, space based laser equipped sattelites are an incerdible way to counter ICBM's as in space lasers lose no energy and there is plenty of energy to harvest from the sun using solar panels.

this defensive equipment is better than havng no real military infrastructure and ICBM's.

[michigan]

altough an icbm is necessary, however i feel we need to invest and upgrade the conventional weapon system..................

[scorpion]

Pakistan have to first make a powerful SAM system .... which should have a longer range to counter high altitude fighters or bombers...........
Secondly Pakistan requires more submarines ...alongwith few frigates.....to defend a frigate is a more difficult task then a submarine...... submarines can become a threat to enemy as they are more difficult to be detected..........
Thirdly Pakistan has to do something to defend its airbases and airforce....which can be done a little bit with deployment of the power SAM system that i mentioned earlier and some more effective equipments to counter cruise misssiles........coz in modern warfare, if ur enemy got something like cruise missile then first thing it will do is to destroy ur all airbases.......whatever fighters u possess.....if ur bases are destroyed then everything is wasted........
Fourthly Pakistan requires Satellite Jammers........they can also be used to stop the cruise missile attack coz cruise missiles are mostly guided by satelites...and if they are not guided by satellites then they are not so accurate............
Fifthly Pakistan should also make some satellites and furthermore some satellite based systems such as cruise missiles............

[Fulcrum]

I think Pakistan should enhance its deffenceive capabilities more ... as we've no aggressive intentions against anyone ... We should improve our survilience system ... Do think about more Radars ... Awacs ... n what if we got some EA-6B Prowler .

[pakistanzindabaad]

Attack helicoptors.

More than anything else, that is what Pakistan should be buying en masse. Before tanks even.

how come???

tanks armed with some good manpads should take out helicoptors easily..... I should like to get my hands on the A-10 warthog, though..... now thats a mean machine..... either that or some other good land attack aircraft.....

Pakistan probably has an awacs system or something of that kind..... because in my opinion, if they didnt, they wouldnt be out there taking their sweet time on the SU-27s or the mirage 2005 the way they're doing, right now......

any future conflict bettween india and Pakistan, is going to be a tank war. we need to find ways to win that war. very good manpads and ground attack aircrafts/helis are the way to go......

seems to me the Pakistani brass has already decided on that factor and are therefore concentrating on the land war aspect.

Edited by pakistanzindabaad, 15 April 2003 - 11:42 AM.

[M21sniper]

I keep telling you guys that SAM's suck.

The allies just flew tens of thousands of sorties in Iraq, and just one aircraft was destroyed by a SAM.

That ought to be telling you something.

And the PA does not need helo's for killing other helo's.....but for killing indian tanks.

And MANPADS blow against US style attack helicopter doctrine, that use NOE and stand off engagements along terrain features to attack.

All a helo following the US doctrine has to do to avoid a missile is dip down behind a treeline or ridgeline...or a building, etc., to evade.

[pakistanzindabaad]

a tank engagement is most likely in the rajastan desert.....

india will probably try to cut off karachi from punjab...... to do that it has to invade about 100-150 kms inside Pakistan at specific points. the place is bald as gandhi(no offense) there are not many land features to hide behind.... and if I recall correctly, the mujis kicked the hinds butt in the afghan theater with the stingers....... afghan territory on the other hand has more than enough land features for that sort of engagement.

also, the US helos have basically faced RPGs or sams...... not a lot of history of manpad engagement, yet. but LDP did mention that the hinds that the mujis brought down did not have flares..... a new model of the hind apparently did and it fared pretty well against the stinger...

[asd985]

Well every body is talking about big weapons with lots of lackluster. May be you will find me silly is saying that we should have weapons which can equip our infantry, weapons which they can use against the armored and low flying planes and helicopters. Low flying targets, as most of the world weapons, other than cruise missiles flying, things have to come close to target to deliver. High flying planes can only do intelligence and pose not much threat to the targets.


Why I am saying that is because that Pakistan can be on the hit list of USA. USA can locate the tanks, missiles and other big weapons easily due to there AWACS and satellite intelligence. Only thing that is difficult to pickup is infantry or small group of people. You understand what I am saying equip the army to give them equipment so that they get best guerilla fighting abilities, so that even small group of infantry can cut the supply lines, can kill the heaviest armored tanks and bring down low flying planes.

Ask some infantry general he will tell you how important and dangerous the man on his feet is in the battleground.

Any body convinced?

[M21sniper]

Note that Soviet doctrine for the employment of attack helicopters is completely different than the US doctrine.

US doctrine calls for maximum stand off range employment of weapons(7000 meters for Hellfire), whereas Soviet doctrine employed helo's much like a strafing aircraft.

Soviet birds attack in long strafing runs, directly overflying the enemy position.

THAT'S why so many Hinds got smoked.