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Pof-5 9mm
Started by
Magnus
, May 19 2014 10:49 AM
13 replies to this topic
#1
Magnus
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Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:49 AM
"An equation means nothing to me unless it expresses a thought of God". Srinivasa Ramanujan
“Si vis pacem, para bellum- "If you wish for peace, prepare for war.”
"Whoever commands the sea, commands the trade; whosoever commands the trade of the world commands the riches of the world, and consequently the world itself."--Sir Walter Raleigh
"'To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." Voltaire
"For those of us climbing to the top of the food chain, there can be no mercy. There is but one rule: hunt or be hunted." Frank Underwood
>>>>www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JjDDgK8KXc<<<<<
#2
Felicius
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Posted 19 May 2014 - 02:57 PM
^ That's the MP-5 our military uses.
Hakim Bey: Don't just survive while waiting for someone's revolution to clear your head
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!
#3
Felicius
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Posted 19 May 2014 - 03:21 PM
Hakim Bey: Don't just survive while waiting for someone's revolution to clear your head
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!
#4
Skull-Buster
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Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:58 PM
Glad to see Pakistani guns getting good independent reviews abroad.
But I never understood why POF never made an indigenous standard issue rifle for the Army.
This is the flag of Islam, for you cannot separate the Muslim league from Islam. Many people misunderstand us when we talk of Islam, particularly our Hindu friends. When we say this flag is the flag of Islam, they think that we are introducing religion into politics, A FACT OF WHICH WE ARE PROUD. Islam gives us a complete code. It is not only a religion, but it contains laws, philosophy and politics. It contains everything that matters to a man from morning to night. When we talk of Islam, we take it as an all embracing word.
- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (11th January 1938)
Let us go back to our holy book, the Quran. Let us revert to the Hadeeth and the the great traditions of Islam which have everything in them for our guidance if we correctly interpret them and follow our great Holy book, the Quran.
- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (6th March 1946)
"It is my strong belief, that there is no ideology which is more democratic, enlightened and progressive than Islam."
- General Zai-ul-Haq (23rd March 1988)
- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (11th January 1938)
Let us go back to our holy book, the Quran. Let us revert to the Hadeeth and the the great traditions of Islam which have everything in them for our guidance if we correctly interpret them and follow our great Holy book, the Quran.
- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (6th March 1946)
"It is my strong belief, that there is no ideology which is more democratic, enlightened and progressive than Islam."
- General Zai-ul-Haq (23rd March 1988)
#5
Metanoia
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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:15 PM
^ I have often wondered the same.....
1) “We but teach bloody instructions which, being taught, return to plague the inventor” — Macbeth, Act 1, scene 7
2) "It is cream that rises to the top of milk. It is scum that rises to the top of a dirty pond."
#6
blueazure
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Posted 20 May 2014 - 01:34 AM
But I never understood why POF never made an indigenous standard issue rifle for the Army.
G 3 is doing the role just fine, no requirement to spent millions on something that has no operational benefit as such
@blueazure47
#7
Skull-Buster
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Posted 20 May 2014 - 02:42 AM
But im seeing that the PA is using more of the the AK-47 in combat zones rather than the G-3.
This is the flag of Islam, for you cannot separate the Muslim league from Islam. Many people misunderstand us when we talk of Islam, particularly our Hindu friends. When we say this flag is the flag of Islam, they think that we are introducing religion into politics, A FACT OF WHICH WE ARE PROUD. Islam gives us a complete code. It is not only a religion, but it contains laws, philosophy and politics. It contains everything that matters to a man from morning to night. When we talk of Islam, we take it as an all embracing word.
- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (11th January 1938)
Let us go back to our holy book, the Quran. Let us revert to the Hadeeth and the the great traditions of Islam which have everything in them for our guidance if we correctly interpret them and follow our great Holy book, the Quran.
- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (6th March 1946)
"It is my strong belief, that there is no ideology which is more democratic, enlightened and progressive than Islam."
- General Zai-ul-Haq (23rd March 1988)
- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (11th January 1938)
Let us go back to our holy book, the Quran. Let us revert to the Hadeeth and the the great traditions of Islam which have everything in them for our guidance if we correctly interpret them and follow our great Holy book, the Quran.
- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (6th March 1946)
"It is my strong belief, that there is no ideology which is more democratic, enlightened and progressive than Islam."
- General Zai-ul-Haq (23rd March 1988)
#8
blueazure
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Posted 20 May 2014 - 03:57 AM
thats the type 56. Chinese ak.
It is more controllable in fullauto and can also be considered a standard firearm in our military.
It is more controllable in fullauto and can also be considered a standard firearm in our military.
@blueazure47
#9
Krad
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Posted 20 May 2014 - 04:46 AM
G-3 is a proper battle rifle. It is somewhat unwieldy for CQB and more modern assault situations in insurgencies etc. This is where AK and sub machine guns like the MP-5 come in. I would imagine G-3 may soon be relegated to DMR role
#10
Saad
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Posted 30 July 2014 - 11:00 AM
Developing a new assault rifle requires expertise in a lot of specialized fields. Metallurgy for one has not been developed in our country to standards where it can develop required alloys. Same goes true for composite materials. Under such situations with under developed support infra structure and lack of private sectors involvement the development and maintenance cost can easily spiral up.
"And Make Ready Your Strength, To The Utmost Of Your Power". Quran
Men at their best Pakistan Army
As long as we hope tomarrow awaits
"I'll be glad when we are no longer dependent on US aid".
Winston Churchill said in 1954
"Each time Paris was taken during last centuary,French resistance crumbled within an hour".
Charles de Gaulle wrote in 1934
Men at their best Pakistan Army
As long as we hope tomarrow awaits
"I'll be glad when we are no longer dependent on US aid".
Winston Churchill said in 1954
"Each time Paris was taken during last centuary,French resistance crumbled within an hour".
Charles de Gaulle wrote in 1934
#11
butterfly
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Posted 30 July 2014 - 01:16 PM
Developing a new assault rifle requires expertise in a lot of specialized fields. Metallurgy for one has not been developed in our country to standards where it can develop required alloys. Same goes true for composite materials. Under such situations with under developed support infra structure and lack of private sectors involvement the development and maintenance cost can easily spiral up.
In todays world you can outsourse just about anything. Barrels or blanks can easily be bought. We have adequate composite tech bejng developed for the jf17 (u will have to trust me on that). What is required more than money is confidence.
#12
noxiouspython
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Posted 30 July 2014 - 05:13 PM
Aoa
If we are going to get a new caliber rifle why not go for the 6.6 mm the US is developing? Otherwise 7.62 is good enough as is. No?
w/salaam
In case I forgot here is it is... Asalaamualikum
"There is none worthy of worship but He, glorified be He: [Far is He] above that which they associate [with Him]" (Qur'an 9:31)
Not equal are the owners of the fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious. [Quran 59:20]
Allah knows best [who are] your enemies. Allah is sufficient as a Friend, and Allah is sufficient as a Helper. [4:45]
Fudayl ibn Iyaad said: "Verily, if an action was done sincerely for the sake of Allah but was not correct, it will not be accepted by Allah. And if the action was correct but not done sincerely it will not be accepted until the act is sincere and correct. For it to be sincere, it has to be done for the sake of Allah, and in order for it to be correct, it has to agree to the sunnah."
the Messenger of Allah pbuh says; “whoever does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not one of them.”
islamqa.com
"There is none worthy of worship but He, glorified be He: [Far is He] above that which they associate [with Him]" (Qur'an 9:31)
Not equal are the owners of the fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious. [Quran 59:20]
Allah knows best [who are] your enemies. Allah is sufficient as a Friend, and Allah is sufficient as a Helper. [4:45]
Fudayl ibn Iyaad said: "Verily, if an action was done sincerely for the sake of Allah but was not correct, it will not be accepted by Allah. And if the action was correct but not done sincerely it will not be accepted until the act is sincere and correct. For it to be sincere, it has to be done for the sake of Allah, and in order for it to be correct, it has to agree to the sunnah."
the Messenger of Allah pbuh says; “whoever does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not one of them.”
islamqa.com
#13
ali23
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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:03 AM
If we are going to get a new caliber rifle why not go for the 6.6 mm the US is developing? Otherwise 7.62 is good enough as is. No?
The future calibre of the individual weapon depends upon the future doctrine of the army and individual protection of the enemy soldier (body armor). One of the factors that led to US army choosing 5.56 mm decades ago was because of the shoot to injure strategy. However, this strategy may not work in the future due to increased use of body armor with level 3-4 protection. Right now even US has not started widespread use of 6.5mm/6.8 mm ammunition so any other army should be cautious in changing its caliber to a newer one unless the new caliber has seen widespread use.
Hopefully the internal militant threat will subside in future and then PA will focus even more on the future doctrine (keeping in mind the existential conevntional threat from east).Caliber then may or may not change depending upon the future requirements of the modern battlefield.
#14
Saad
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Posted 31 July 2014 - 12:56 PM
In todays world you can outsourse just about anything. Barrels or blanks can easily be bought. We have adequate composite tech bejng developed for the jf17 (u will have to trust me on that). What is required more than money is confidence.
AoA bro,
Fielding of a new assault rifle design is a time and resource intensive effort. Availability of experimental quantities of of alloys and composites to come up with a concept weapon is one thing and manufacturing and fielding a new piece of equipment at industrial scale is totally another. I will try to dilate upon the salients in the next few paras.
Outsourcing of Materials
Yes a lot of material including ingots of alloys can be obtained from open market, but they require hard currency. That is one thing we are currently not at liberty to use in meaningful quantities.
Maturing a New Design Any new design will be validated over a number of tests spread over years. Even after that you may end up with reinventing the wheel. Indian INSAS assault rifle is one good example in this regard. That is why poor countries go for fail safe license manufacture of a proven design.
Caliber Before shifting to any new caliber, necessary logistics of the same have to be catered for. The disposal of existing facilities for manufacture of ammunition you are planing to phase out needs to be sought. Likewise manufacture of sufficient quantities of new caliber ammunition needs to be catered for. This all becomes a lengthy, time drawn, resource heavy exercise if you don't have buyers on the outside willing to pay you hard currency for your product. Remember once Indians had to import 4 million 5.56 mm rounds in 90s.
Priority Even if all the above stated issues are resolved, we may find that indigenous assault rifle may be way down on priority list while a lot more pressing issues to be immediately addressed.
Regards
"And Make Ready Your Strength, To The Utmost Of Your Power". Quran
Men at their best Pakistan Army
As long as we hope tomarrow awaits
"I'll be glad when we are no longer dependent on US aid".
Winston Churchill said in 1954
"Each time Paris was taken during last centuary,French resistance crumbled within an hour".
Charles de Gaulle wrote in 1934
Men at their best Pakistan Army
As long as we hope tomarrow awaits
"I'll be glad when we are no longer dependent on US aid".
Winston Churchill said in 1954
"Each time Paris was taken during last centuary,French resistance crumbled within an hour".
Charles de Gaulle wrote in 1934
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