http://www.bbc.com/n...-india-26967340
Siachen dispute: India and Pakistan’s glacial fight



Admiral
Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:48 PM
http://www.bbc.com/n...-india-26967340
Siachen dispute: India and Pakistan’s glacial fight
GENERAL
Posted 17 April 2014 - 04:12 PM
BRIGADIER
Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:38 PM
I don't really have a dispute with the rest of your post, only those two highlighted words, what do you mean by the 'imposter taliban' ?
Insha-Allah, we will take back Siachen once and for all. It is hindustanis that are playing a dangerous game of proxy war in Pakistani provinces of Baluchistan and Pukhtunkhwa. In addition to which they are also attempting steal water from river Indus, which is a river of Pakistan. Their plans will backfire on them pretty soon. As Pakistan will not stand by and allow imposter taliban and traitor bla goons to continue to run loose. These proxies near the end of their existence. Also, hindus should consider an exit route from Helmand, Jalalabad and Kabul, soon. Because come January 2015, their will be a bloodbath and all foreigners in Afghanistan will be systematically exterminated.
1) “We but teach bloody instructions which, being taught, return to plague the inventor” — Macbeth, Act 1, scene 7
2) "It is cream that rises to the top of milk. It is scum that rises to the top of a dirty pond."
COLONEL
Posted 18 April 2014 - 03:58 AM
I don't really have a dispute with the rest of your post, only those two highlighted words, what do you mean by the 'imposter taliban' ?
Good question!
Because these so called Imposter Taliban are our own creation , we embraced an ideology which nurtured these monsters and now they have come to back to bite us. furthermore there is no such thing as good and Bad taliban
@topic:
I hope the two countries realize that human lives are more precious than a frozen wasteland, and disputes can be settled without war too.
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GENERAL
Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:49 AM
Good question!
Because these so called Imposter Taliban are our own creation , we embraced an ideology which nurtured these monsters and now they have come to back to bite us. furthermore there is no such thing as good and Bad taliban
@topic:
I hope the two countries realize that human lives are more precious than a frozen wasteland, and disputes can be settled without war too.
I disagree with there being no such thing as good/bad Taliban. Perhaps the labels need adjusting, but there are defintely different version. I think it's more accurate as to describe them as;
A - Those operating exclusively against Pakistan
B - Those operating exclusively outside Pakistan (probably in Afghanistan)
C - Those operating both inside and outside Pakistan
Catergory B, I can live with, A and C, they bother me. It's the same with everyone else, including you i bet, the problem is our people get so held up and fixated on defining their thinking by defintions made up by tabloid quality media. Good/Bad is only sensationalism, there is nothing "good" about the entire concept, but there are those we can turn a blind eye too and those who are kicking our a55.
GENERAL
Posted 19 April 2014 - 11:33 AM
I don't really have a dispute with the rest of your post, only those two highlighted words, what do you mean by the 'imposter taliban' ?
Impostor Taliban are the TTP.
This terrorist group has no allegiance to Islam, let alone Pakistan. They are a breed of rascals who have been funded via various channels of CIA, Mossad, Raw and have been used to not only destabilize Pakistan. But more over, to make it appear to the world that Pakistan's ability to establish control over it's own territory, has been compromised. And the reason behind this objective is to achieve a reasonable level of credibility, which would legitimize the claim that Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is vulnerable and essentially a prime target for the terrorists.
As for who or whether there is any such thing as a good Taliban or a bad one. I would not delve into this issue too much. But I would go far enough to point out that the Taliban of Afghanistan are an indigenous, who were conned by CIA's lab monkey's AKA - al-qaeda and have a genuine freedom struggle. They are not to be associated with TTP and should not be generalized with these goons. TTP are not legitimate, they have a foreign hand which manipulates, arms, funds via third-party and often deflect these idiots toward confronting Pakistan's military.
So there is your answer!
GENERAL
Posted 19 April 2014 - 11:39 AM
TTA = tehreek taiban emirates of aghanistan , fighting to retake afghan from uS/ nato occupation forces
TTP = a renegade group of TTA , tafriki , criminal ,uzbek , NA terrorists fighting the state of Pakistan and Pakistani civilians.
@blueazure47
BRIGADIER
Posted 19 April 2014 - 05:25 PM
Then how do you guys explain this?
http://online.wsj.co...495571329628070
Militants and officials said the Haqqani network, an Afghan insurgent group also based in Pakistan's tribal areas, is trying to patch up differences between the warring Taliban factions, which come from the Mehsud tribe.
The Haqqani group has repeatedly intervened in internal Taliban disputes, fearing that such fighting will impede its ability to use the tribal areas as a sanctuary, analysts said.
1) “We but teach bloody instructions which, being taught, return to plague the inventor” — Macbeth, Act 1, scene 7
2) "It is cream that rises to the top of milk. It is scum that rises to the top of a dirty pond."
Admiral
Posted 19 April 2014 - 05:26 PM
India, Pakistan, Siachen?
BRIGADIER
Posted 19 April 2014 - 06:39 PM
Heading no where.....
The environment does provide an excellent experience to our armed forces though, and it also gives Pakistani army and Indian army the honor of being operational on the world's highest battlefield.
India, Pakistan, Siachen?
1) “We but teach bloody instructions which, being taught, return to plague the inventor” — Macbeth, Act 1, scene 7
2) "It is cream that rises to the top of milk. It is scum that rises to the top of a dirty pond."
BRIGADIER
Posted 19 April 2014 - 07:40 PM
The honour?
There is no honour in dying unnecessarily because of egos.
Its like saying the soldiers of the Battle of Somme had the honour of being involved in the bloodiest battle ever.
BRIGADIER
Posted 19 April 2014 - 08:08 PM
Not talking about the battle but talking about the operations.
Also a different matter of perspective.
1) “We but teach bloody instructions which, being taught, return to plague the inventor” — Macbeth, Act 1, scene 7
2) "It is cream that rises to the top of milk. It is scum that rises to the top of a dirty pond."
GENERAL
Posted 19 April 2014 - 11:06 PM
casualties in contact < < casualties to weather
at 19,800 feet, lack of oxygen alone impairs vital functions, sleep and hunger are reduced . in the most forward areas, indian and Pakistani FOPs are in shouting distance of each other . soldiers on guard duty from both sides routinely share a smoke and a joke .
its a pointless waste of good men and resources.
@blueazure47
BRIGADIER
Posted 20 April 2014 - 02:22 AM
soldiers on guard duty from both sides routinely share a smoke and a joke
Thats very interesting to know! Do you know someone up there in the area or is there a source that said this?
GENERAL
Posted 20 April 2014 - 04:02 AM
Then how do you guys explain this?
http://online.wsj.co...495571329628070
Militants and officials said the Haqqani network, an Afghan insurgent group also based in Pakistan's tribal areas, is trying to patch up differences between the warring Taliban factions, which come from the Mehsud tribe.
The Haqqani group has repeatedly intervened in internal Taliban disputes, fearing that such fighting will impede its ability to use the tribal areas as a sanctuary, analysts said.
both groups are not entirely heterogeneous .
TTP has remnants of the original rebels trained by ISI in the 80s . some were killed, some returned to their countries, and some took arms as mercenaries.
@blueazure47
GENERAL
Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:50 PM
Siachen Ops is Another example of poor planning by the top brass sitting in GHQ.
For the operation that took place from PA perspective is here:
https://www.pakistan...pId=198&rnd=447
India and Pakistan both maintain considerable sized forces at front posts as well as back up forces in garrisons behind siachen glacier. Although the posts on both sides are manned by few troops at a time but to lodge an attack it becomes difficult to assemble and move in a large force.
Biggest problem is weather which should be favourable for heli drops as assualt on foot can itself claim lives during movement from point A to point B only(land slides etc). Another problem is deploying few men and due to weather change heli has to return and abandon men on ground.getting those men back or supplying them is the new problem.
Second is use of helis, not all types can fly at high altitudes and there may not be high numbers of helis available or even if they are avaiable, a singe heli may not carry enough troops so for a sizeable attack atleat 2-4 helis are required to secure dropping zone only.
Third is dropping zone, no favourable plain ground to land and deploy troops and fly off. Rappeling or saddling are the choices. Finally in order to take one enemy post or post by post will require a brigade sized attack to ensure success and Pakistan has just tried platoon level attacks in the end of 1980's and that also mostly by SSG supported by regular infantry. The other supporting elements like artillery cover, gunship fire(rare at high altitudes) etc maybe absent most of the times due to weather or comm issues. The use of heavy weapons once on ground in enemy territory is also vital, like RPG, mortar etc. that means instead of deploying 6 men, a heli may carry 3 men and mortar and RPG due to weight limitations. Then supplying these men after a few hours is another issue, weather permitting. The ceasefire of 2003 makes little sense as it avoids conflicts but still takes lives.
Other effects on siachen glacier are the waste produced by the troops stationed there is dumped in the crevasses of the glacier that neither decomposes nor can be burned because of the extreme climatic conditions. but there is still importance of this glacier: The glacier's melting waters are the main source of the Nubra River in the Indian region of Ladakh, which drains into the Shyok. The Shyok in turn joins the 3000 kilometer-long Indus which flows through Pakistan. Thus, the glacier is a major source of the Indus and feeds the largest irrigation system in the world.
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