234 replies to this topic

[PLA200909]

基斯坦空军参谋长：中国已承诺向巴出售歼10
2009年11月10日 10:38 环球网

国产歼10猛龙战机
　　环球网记者于泽淼报道：据香港中通社9日报道， 巴基斯坦空军参谋长苏莱曼在接受《香港商报》访问时透露，中国已承诺向巴出售歼-10，目前已进入价格商榷阶段。

　　苏莱曼称，歼-10在第四代战机中是性价比最高的，巴基斯坦肯定要购入此款战机，同时中航工业也已向他们提出出售意向。“一旦商谈结束，我们就一定会立即购入”。苏莱曼赞扬中国空军技术先进，射击精确度高，相信未来中国武器不会亚于任何西方国家，“对于在巴基斯坦空军服役的中国战机，我们至今都很满意”。

　　据巴基斯坦驻华官员透露，中巴双方是在之前的会议上达成的口头协议，中国政府同意为巴基斯坦提供歼-10战机，交易何时完成只是时间问题。据悉，巴基斯坦政府已授权向中国购买三十六架歼-10战机。

　　有分析指出，中国国产发动机“太行”已经投入使用，并应用在部分歼-10战机上，使得歼-10的出口消除了障碍，价廉物美的歼-10将成为多国抢购目标。一旦中巴交易完成，将会大大增强巴基斯坦的实力，改变印巴武器装备极不对等的南亚军事格局。

[aamirzs]

... and it says ...

[aamirzs]

.. I think you mean:

http://www.ft.com/cm...144feabdc0.html

Pakistan in Chinese jet fighter deal
By Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad

Published: November 10 2009 08:16 | Last updated: November 10 2009 09:57

China has agreed to sell Pakistan at least 36 advanced fighter jets in a landmark deal worth as much as $1.4bn, according to Pakistani and western officials.

Beijing will supply two squadrons of the J-10 fighter jet in a preliminary agreement that could lead to more sales to Pakistan in the future, said a Pakistani official.

The official said Pakistan might buy "larger numbers" of the multi-role aircraft in the future, but dismissed reports that Pakistan had inked a deal to buy as many as 150 of the fighter jets.

Defence experts described the agreement with China as a landmark event in Pakistan's defence relationship with the growing military power. China's transition from a manufacturer of low-fighters to more advanced jets comparable to some western models is seen as evidence of Beijing's growing strategic clout in Asia.

"This agreement should not simply be seen in the narrow context of Pakistan's relations with China," said Abdul Qayyum, a retired Pakistani general.

"There is a wider dimension. By sharing its advanced technology with Pakistan, China is ... also saying to the world that its defence capability is growing rapidly."

China has supplied Pakistan with fighter jets for more than three decades. But Beijing has seldom supplied Pakistan's air force with advanced fighter aircraft. Islamabad turned to France for Mirage fighter jets in the 1970s and to the US for F-16s in the 1980s.

Pakistan has a fleet of 45 F-16s, which are built by Lockheed Martin. The Pakistani air force is using the fighter jet in its campaign against militants in South Waziristan. The US has agreed to sell Islamabad another 18 new F-16s and about a dozen older versions of the aircraft.

Over the past decade, China and Pakistan have collaborated on building their first jointly produced advanced fighter jet, known as the JF-17, or "Thunder". Pakistan is expected to roll out the first domestically built version of the Thunder within weeks.

Pakistan's air force plans to purchase at least 250 of the Thunder fighters over the next four to five years. Experts see the new Pakistani focus on China as a supplier of advanced fighters as evidence that Beijing is trying to expand its military power.

"Countries like Iran and possibly some of the Middle Eastern countries would be keen to deal with China if they can find technology which is comparable to the west," said one western official in Islamabad.

"Pakistan will work as the laboratory to try out Chinese aircraft. If they work well with the Pakistani air force, others will follow."

[leuitenentcolonel]

Translation


Cristiano Air Force chief of staff: China has promised to sell Pakistan F-10
At 10:38 on November 10, 2009 World Wide Web

Chinese-made F-10 Raptors fighter
Miao Yu Ze World Wide Web news reports: According to the Hong Kong Chinese News Agency 9, reported that Pakistan Air Force Chief of Staff of Sulaiman told the "Hong Kong Commercial Daily," an interview revealed that China has promised to sell Pakistan F--10, has entered the price of Discussion phase.

Suleiman said the fourth-generation fighter F -10 is the most cost-effective, Pakistan will certainly be purchased Cikuan fighters, while in the aircraft industry has also had the intention to sell them. "Once the talks ended, we will immediately buy." Suleiman praised the Chinese Air Force, advanced technology, shooting, high precision weapons do not believe that the future Chinese Asian in any Western countries, "For the Chinese in Pakistan Air Force aircraft, we have so far very satisfied."

According to Pakistani Embassy officials, China and Pakistan are in the previous verbal agreement reached at the meeting, the Chinese government agreed to provide Pakistan with F -10 fighter, the transaction completion date is only a matter of time. However, Pakistan's government has authorized to China to buy 36 F -10 fighter.

Some analysts pointed out that China-made engine "Taihang" has been put into use, and applied in some F -10 fighter plane, making the export of -10 F to eliminate the obstacles to the F -10 inexpensive multi-country rush to buy will be the target. Once the CMB completion of the transaction, it will greatly enhance the strength of Pakistan, India and Pakistan to change the weapons and equipment, a very unequal pattern of the South Asian military.

[aamirzs]

So according to my news link (above), it says they have signed a deal.

"China has agreed to sell Pakistan at least 36 advanced fighter jets in a landmark deal worth as much as $1.4bn"

[fanna4paf]

good news but there never mention clearly time period of deliverly and version of j-10

[1Pakistani]

BTW there is also a mention that the NUMBER OF J-10 could be Increased... as was being speculated by many members here for sometime.

The official said Pakistan might buy “larger numbers” of the multi-role aircraft in the future, but dismissed reports that Pakistan had inked a deal to buy as many as 150 of the fighter jets, the News Paper says.

http://www.aaj.tv/ne...399_detail.html

[aamirzs]

good news but there never mention clearly time period of deliverly and version of j-10

Yap, I tried to find this info as well ... but I am sure it wouldn't take too long to deliver.

[Jazba-e-Kashmir]

was sure the ACM went to China for the reasing of having the final settlement on the arrival of J-10s - not least putting a lot pressure on China for delievering the jetfighters as quick as possible.

[THE FIGHTING FALCON]

whats the news in all this? Wasnt this agreement worked out during Mush's visit in 06?

[ULTRA-CENTRIFUGE]

Pakistan-China in $1.4 billion fighter jet deal

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: China has agreed to sell Pakistan at least 36 advanced fighter jets in a landmark deal worth as much as $1.4bn, Pakistani and western officials said on Tuesday.

China will supply two squadrons of J-10 fighter planes in a preliminary agreement, which could lead to further sales in future, a Pakistani official said.

The official added that Pakistan might buy “larger numbers” of the planes in the future, but denied reports that Pakistan had agreed to buy 150 jets.

Experts describe the agreement as a “landmark” in Pak-China relations.

“The agreement should not simply be seen in the narrow context of Pakistan’s relations with China,” said Abdul Qayyum, a retired Pakistani general. “There is a wider dimension. By sharing its advanced technology with Pakistan, China is ... also saying to the world that its defence capability is growing rapidly.”

China has supplied Pakistan with fighter jets for more than three decades. Experts said the sales would be evidence of China looking to expand its military power. “Countries like Iran and possibly some of the Middle Eastern countries would be keen to deal with China,” said one western official in Islamabad.



((( altough i am very happy with this deal, but ont he other side we should acknowledge that it is 3.5 -4th gen aircraft,wich still needs to prove its mettle,and the world, especially india is going for the 5th gen aircraft.But good news tough!)))

[Archangelesk99]

With XXJ prototype flying within 2 years this news is no surprise..........the real question is, will this be closer to J-10A or J-10B's specifications? At the price tag given of approximately $35 million per plane, the fact that no country currently exports its best jet fighters due to the strategic value conferred, J-10A's performance being close to F-16C, and the fact that XXJ technologies are being tested on J-10B, one can assume it to be an improved variant of J-10A but not quite J-10B. Also indicates that engine problems are fully solved and China is now capable of producing a 100% indigenous fourth-generation fighter (XXJ being 5th generation)

[hassan]

Most important thing PAF never buy STANDARD models.PAF like to have modifications which they see best for PAF.and that makes more deadly planes.

[PakiWorrior]

I have question if J-10 is generation 3.5 or 4 plane then what about JF-17. As far I can see the JF-17 wings are not so greatly designed, probably borrowed from F-7.

[lein303]

I have question if J-10 is generation 3.5 or 4 plane then what about JF-17. As far I can see the JF-17 wings are not so greatly designed, probably borrowed from F-7.

The J-10 is a 4th generation or a 4.5th generation fighter depending on which model you refer to. Its a pretty ignorant thing to claim the jf-17 isnt greatly designed and that its wings are borrowed from the F-7 which is not at all true. The mirages for 3 generations where based off the simple delta model, does that make them any less deadly?

[Aali]

Congrulation to All ##Pakistani## Brothers,


Either is 4gen or 3.5gen we need this plane in our fleet to counter SU30

[Caesar]

There has been a lot of discussion on PakDef on J-10 and majority including the most informed agree that it will be J-10B, not J-10A or J-10 with some features of J-10 B. Thanks.

[Munir]

The estimated plane (fly away cost) is 45 mill. USD. We knew the basic J10A is little more expensive then JF17. You all read that it was a good competitive price so if JF17 is 15-20 million I doubt the basic J10A will be more then double that price. Besides that would PAF go for J10A variant to be inducted in 2014-2015? It is like buying block30+ at the moment if we all know that you can only get block50-52 at this moment. Besides that with J10B being tested right now, the WS10 being tested right now, new weapons being tested now shows the 5 years period to mature as a potent asset. The FC20 is there to be the opponent for the MRCA and MKI. That means it will get AESA and PL20. Knowing the prices of AESA, PL20 and WS10 we can honestly conclude that J10B will evolve towrds FC20. If China is wiling to share latest then it is sulrey not a J10A which is pretty much a basic aircraft trying to be something like block40+

[Dizasta]

If I understand this correctly, then the (36) FC-20s would be the newer version of the J-10s. A milestone has been reached with the start of JF-17 production and the official news on the purchase of FC-20s. What needs to be done now is selecting radars, missiles and engines for these two fighters.

The objective doesn't stop at just achieving self-reliance in fighter aircraft capability. The need to incorporate advance radars, missiles, electronic warfare suites and engines ideal for the combat aircraft, is mandatory in order to maintain air -supremacy over the enemy.

JF-17s need advance radars like the RBE2s or RDY3s, advance missiles like MICAs/Darters and more reliable (not liable to sanctions) engines like WS-13s. FC-20s should ideally be incorporated with AESA radars which could be compatible with Meteor missiles and WS-10 engines.

However, these should only be (if the possibility exists) procured with Transfer of Technology.

[bling-bling]

Pakistan in Chinese fighter jet deal
By Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad

Published: November 10 2009 08:16 | Last updated: November 10 2009 18:29

China has agreed to sell Pakistan at least 36 advanced fighter jets in a deal worth as much as $1.4bn, according to Pakistani and western officials.

Beijing will supply two squadrons of the J-10 fighter jet in a preliminary agreement that could lead to more sales, said a Pakistani official. The official said Pakistan might buy "larger numbers" of the multi-role aircraft in the future, but dismissed reports that Islamabad had signed a deal to purchase as many as 150 of the fighter jets.


Defence experts described the agreement with China as a landmark event in Pakistan's defence relationship with the military power. China's transition from a manufacturer of low-fighters to more advanced jets comparable to some western models is seen as evidence of Beijing's increasing strategic clout in Asia.

"China is developing a real capacity to produce and export its arms. At one point, the Chinese were dependent on imported Russian technology, but obviously China has advanced significantly beyond those days," said Marika Vicziany, Professor of Asian studies at Monash University in Melbourne.

"This agreement should not simply be seen in the narrow context of Pakistan's relations with China," said Abdul Qayyum, a retired Pakistani general.

"There is a wider dimension. By sharing its advanced technology with Pakistan, China is ... also saying to the world that its defence capability is growing rapidly."

China has supplied Pakistan with fighter jets for more than three decades. But Beijing has seldom supplied Pakistan's air force with advanced fighter aircraft. Islamabad turned to France for Mirage fighter jets in the 1970s and to the US for F-16s in the 1980s.

Pakistan has a fleet of 45 F-16s built by Lockheed Martin. The Pakistani air force is using the fighter jet in its campaign against militants in South Waziristan.

The US has agreed to sell Islamabad another 18 new F-16s and Pakistani officials also expected the US to supply about a dozen older versions of the aircraft.

Over the past decade, China and Pakistan have collaborated on building their first jointly produced advanced fighter jet, known as the JF-17, or "Thunder". Pakistan is expected to roll out the first domestically built version of the Thunder within weeks.

Pakistan's air force plans to purchase at least 250 of the Thunder fighters over the next four to five years.

Experts see the new Pakistani focus on China as evidence that Beijing is trying to expand its military power.

"Countries like Iran and possibly some of the Middle Eastern countries would be keen to deal with China if they can find technology which is comparable to the west," said one western official in Islamabad.

"Pakistan will work as the laboratory to try out Chinese aircraft. If they work well with the Pakistani air force, others will follow."


FINANCIAL TIMES

[hala]

good news

but the main thing is that i strongly think that jf-17 whole design is a little bit copy of f-16 and so does its wings and its structure is made EXACTLY on the lines given by PAF to meet its 30-40 years requirements.

also its a small plane that can work at mid altitudes (due to its compact design).

to fly higher a plane needs bigger body and bigger wings area.

for that purpose paf is going for fc-20.

and fc-20 meets paf`s requirements of bigger plane with large wing area and single engine.

[aamirzs]

I still do not understand, why we try to post old news over and over ... as if it is new.

http://forum.pakista...showtopic=85757

[qureshi]

Most important thing PAF never buy STANDARD models.PAF like to have modifications which they see best for PAF.and that makes more deadly planes.

Same like israel,They never buy standard models they always want some thing special as far as they needs are concerned.

[pirateofthecarribean]

It is my understanding that the J-10B's airframe is more advanced, with DSI etc. I'm not surprised, the Chinese never sell us their best, only their second-rate. They only waited till now to sell us J-10A AFTER they are sure they have their own better J-10B. http://www.sinodefen...ighter/j10b.asp

J-10B has a modified nose to fit an AESA. J-10A cannot fit an AESA with its rounder nose. Furthermore, J-10B has IRST and so it can search and track silently.

http://cnair.top81.c...0_J-11_FC-1.htm

The best way to solve one's own defense needs to by becoming self-reliant. Heck, Pakistan and China do not even have close genetics, unlike Indians and Russians, who do have close genetics.

http://en.wikipedia...._DNA_haplogroup

[Felicius]

Zardari wants to take credit for it, let it be.
NS thinks he pioneered this deal, woh bhi alag drama hai.

[Saqr]

It is my understanding that the J-10B's airframe is more advanced, with DSI etc. I'm not surprised, the Chinese never sell us their best, only their second-rate. They only waited till now to sell us J-10A AFTER they are sure they have their own better J-10B. http://www.sinodefen...ighter/j10b.asp

J-10B has a modified nose to fit an AESA. J-10A cannot fit an AESA with its rounder nose. Furthermore, J-10B has IRST and so it can search and track silently.

http://cnair.top81.c...0_J-11_FC-1.htm

The best way to solve one's own defense needs to by becoming self-reliant. Heck, Pakistan and China do not even have close genetics, unlike Indians and Russians, who do have close genetics.

http://en.wikipedia...._DNA_haplogroup

Usman Shabbir on PakDef confirmed that PAF will be getting J-10B. Heck, even Chinese sources such as tphuang say it's a good possibility.

[Felicius]

We are doing pick and choose, our's had been designated the J-10P.

[pirateofthecarribean]

We are doing pick and choose, our's had been designated the J-10P.

Beggars can't be choosers. We can't rely on China. Their genetics is not close to ours.

[atlantis]

Beggars can't be choosers. We can't rely on China. Their genetics is not close to ours.

You are really funny. If genetic is so important, why Pakistan needs to buy expensive weapons for defencing Indian???

[Felicius]

^ He's flaming here, he's a Canadian settled Chinese from British Hong kong or Taiwan, and dispises China.

Beggars can't be choosers. We can't rely on China. Their genetics is not close to ours.

Jeremy, you're not a Pakistani, stop your old drama again.

Beggars?
come again.

[Rashid1]

Beggars can't be choosers. We can't rely on China. Their genetics is not close to ours.

Indian genetics also don't match with Russians or Americans Or With Israelis

[lein303]

Beggars can't be choosers. We can't rely on China. Their genetics is not close to ours.

Im getting pretty frustrated of how much of an idiot you are. You seem to obsessed with indian genetics. Most people here for one dont give a crap about genetics of rats so keep your #### to yourself kid

[hawkeye-01]

I think after some time can get a better idea about the spec of the fighter as details reveal

[pirateofthecarribean]

Indian genetics also don't match with Russians or Americans Or With Israelis

Wrong. Indians and Russian are relatively fairly close. They are both R1a and speak Indo-European and are both Caucasian.

http://en.wikipedia...._DNA_haplogroup

http://www.merriam-w...onary/Caucasian

[fanna4paf]

zardari commision????

[fanna4paf]

zardari can also done deal for itself or personally buy 1.4billion $$ owner on cash

[Aliph Ahmed]

Wrong. Indians and Russian are relatively fairly close. They are both R1a and speak Indo-European and are both Caucasian.

http://en.wikipedia...._DNA_haplogroup

http://www.merriam-w...onary/Caucasian

The name Caucasian comes from the Caucasus Mountains. The term Caucasian was coined by a man named Blumenbach. He felt that the people who were of that region (Caucasus Mountains) were the most beautiful people so he coined that to refer to the following groups of people: Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, and parts of Asia which includes Pakistan.

Therefore, Pakistanis are Caucasoids.

Edited later: A mixed breed like you wont understand though.

[hawkeye-01]

do not be of topic

[pirateofthecarribean]

The name Caucasian comes from the Caucasus Mountains. The term Caucasian was coined by a man named Blumenbach. He felt that the people who were of that region (Caucasus Mountains) were the most beautiful people so he coined that to refer to the following groups of people: Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, and parts of Asia which includes Pakistan.

Therefore, Pakistanis are Caucasoids.

Edited later: A mixed breed like you wont understand though.

And Blumenbach himself was a feeble-minded jerk who never traveled anywhere. FYI, I'm not a mixed breed. I'm pure human. http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/human

[AWA]

And Blumenbach himself was a feeble-minded jerk who never traveled anywhere. FYI, I'm not a mixed breed. I'm pure human. http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/human

Pirate is back here to spoil the discussion.

Wrong forum for you, We are here not to discuss genetics by the way Mr. Pirate.