77 replies to this topic

[Kim Jong-il Hater]

BEIJING - Chinese police raided an alleged terrorist camp in a western mountain region near the border with Pakistan, killing 18 suspects and arresting 17, a police official said Monday.

Song Hongli, director of the general office of the Xinjiang Public Security Bureau, said the raid occurred Friday at a training camp run by the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, or ETIM.

One police officer was killed and another was injured in the shoot-out, Song said.

Police are searching for suspects who are believed to have escaped during the raid, Song said, but did not say how many.

Police found 22 grenades and material for 1,500 more, he said.

Song said the camp was located in the Pamir Plateau, a sprawling high-altitude section of China's Xinjiang Autonomous Region near the borders of Pakistan,        Afghanistan and Kyrgyzstan.

Song did not give an exact location.

China has long claimed that militants among the region's dominant ethnic Uighurs are leading a violent Islamic separatist movement in Xinjiang. The Uighurs are Turkic-speaking Muslims with a language and culture distinct from the majority of Chinese.

Critics accuse Beijing of using claims of terrorism as an excuse to crack down on peaceful pro-independence sentiment and expressions of Uighur identity.

Chinese troops occupied Xinjiang at the end of the communist revolution in 1949, shipping in millions of Chinese migrants and interfering heavily in Uighur religious affairs.

Chinese authorities say ETIM is one of the region's most violent groups, labeling it a terrorist organization and alleging that it has links to al-Qaida.

The United States has also put ETIM on a terrorist list.

Two years ago, China claimed that Muslim separatist groups and individuals in western China had carried out 260 attacks since 1995, killing 160 people and injuring 440.

Diplomats and foreign experts, however, say that many of the bombings and other violence China has linked to the group actually stem from personal disputes.

About two dozen Uighurs were captured by U.S. forces in Afghanistan following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

China has demanded their return, but the United States fears they might face persecution there. Five Uighurs were sent to Albania last year after no other countries would accept the men.

China often paints a contradictory picture of the security situation in Xinjiang.

Officials seem eager to show they are cracking down on what they consider to be anti-government activity, but they also sometimes deny terrorist activity in the region, apparently wanting to portray it as safe for development and international investment.

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[Arms for Peace]

ETIM should change their tactics but they are fighting against oppression and for their religion perpretated by the CCP. No doubts about that.

[yakeepi]

Most of them just infiltrate from Afghan, and set camps in some very remote no-man area.

Chinese choppers are routinely patrol there, detect and destroy them. It's not the first time.

[Arms for Peace]

Most of them just infiltrate from Afghan, and set camps in some very remote no-man area.

Chinese choppers are routinely patrol there, detect and destroy them. It's not the first time.

You say it with such little remorse. The people of east turkestan are arrested, tortured and abused on a daily basis and religion is not allowed to be practiced. They are forced to learn and speak Mandarin and if they don't they get taken away to jail and are never seen again.

The CCP has done great things for China but this is simply unacceptable. The CCP is too ruthless.

If only they tried to accept the Turkestan people as they are and give them their due rights for mining and exploiting their stolen land.

[yakeepi]

You say it with such little remorse. The people of east turkestan are arrested, tortured and abused on a daily basis and religion is not allowed to be practiced. They are forced to learn and speak Mandarin and if they don't they get taken away to jail and are never seen again.

I don't think they're "arrested, tortured and abused on a daily basis", they're everywhere in every Chinese cities. Have you ever met them? I did.

Yeah, they have to learn Chinese, and most of them do. Do you need to learn English when you're in America? If yes, then just shut up.

[Kim Jong-il Hater]

You say it with such little remorse. The people of east turkestan are arrested, tortured and abused on a daily basis and religion is not allowed to be practiced. They are forced to learn and speak Mandarin and if they don't they get taken away to jail and are never seen again.

The CCP has done great things for China but this is simply unacceptable. The CCP is too ruthless.

If only they tried to accept the Turkestan people as they are and give them their due rights for mining and exploiting their stolen land.

The Chinese are oppressing the Uighurs, but I think what needs to be done is to help with drug rehabilitation in the area. Heroin is a huge problem with Uighurs and the police there aren't doing much to stop it. Everywhere else but the areas with Uighurs they try to stop it. That's unfair.

[albert_008]

You say it with such little remorse. The people of east turkestan are arrested, tortured and abused on a daily basis and religion is not allowed to be practiced. They are forced to learn and speak Mandarin and if they don't they get taken away to jail and are never seen again.

The CCP has done great things for China but this is simply unacceptable. The CCP is too ruthless.

If only they tried to accept the Turkestan people as they are and give them their due rights for mining and exploiting their stolen land.

What u said east turkestan never existed! Man, check out u knowledge ! That region is always be a part of CHina in history. And, they are not forced to Learn Chinese. They are taught to speak mandarin in school.
That is good for the whole CHina to have a common language to communiate. Just like english in USA.

And give me ur evidence about this sentence " if they don't they get taken away to jail and are never seen again. " you are too bullshited by western media or anti-China group. What CCp do is just try to let these minorities united together with other groups, together with Hans and other group. In other side, CCP must wipe out some terrorists groups in CHina and anything related to that!

[yakeepi]

The head of ETIM was killed by Chinese friend Pakistan force in 2003 at the Pak/Afghan border. All central Asia countries, Russia and Pak are cooperating with China on this.

Needless to say, they're doomed.

[yakeepi]

The problem of Uighurs in Xinjiang is that they're divided into North Uighur and South Uighur, the North has less trouble and lives in a pretty peaceful time with others, the South lives close to the Pamirs plateau, a very backward, undeveloped place, that's where some trouble happens.

These Uighurs can't get along with not just Chinese Han people, but other ethnic people like kazak(1/3 of population) as well. The total Uighurs in Xinjiang is about 30% of population, and these South Uighurs are probably only 10% of the total people.

Chinese Han people have no problem with kazaks.

[Sixth]

bs western reporter using double standard to tell story for anti-Chinese purpose only.

[Kim Jong-il Hater]

The problem of Uighurs in Xinjiang is that they're divided into North Uighur and South Uighur, the North has less trouble and lives in a pretty peaceful time with others, the South lives close to the Pamirs plateau, a very backward, undeveloped place, that's where some trouble happens.

These Uighurs can't get along with not just Chinese Han people, but other ethnic people like kazak(1/3 of population) as well. The total Uighurs in Xinjiang is about 30% of population, and these South Uighurs are probably only 10% of the total people.

Chinese Han people have no problem with kazaks.

Where did you get those figures from? Uighurs are 48%, Han is 46%, and the rest are of Central Asian decent. Many Uighurs are mad because the Chinese have employed the Han migrants, who are better skilled and have more experience, instead of them who have lived there for such a long time. The companies don't want to waste money on training Uighurs to work in the industrial parts of Xinjiang. Even the Northerners aren't too happy. But they are all Sufis, so the Chinese government doesn't screw around with their religious practices.

[aziqbal]

The Chinese are oppressing the Uighurs, but I think what needs to be done is to help with drug rehabilitation in the area. Heroin is a huge problem with Uighurs and the police there aren't doing much to stop it. Everywhere else but the areas with Uighurs they try to stop it. That's unfair.

China just made new airport for Uighur muslims who want to go Hajj and Saudi embaessy is now under making for Chinese muslims from North Western regions. Saudi team said that Chinese muslims gets best treatment and respect from Chinese counter parts.

I know many Chinese in high politics places and they all have the upmost respect for muslims and muslim culture and want more and more ties with muslims because we was superpower when London and Paris was eating dogs.

This type of propoganda doesnt suite you kimmy so kindly cut the crap. Thanks.

[Daredevil]

Wipe them out !! Kick their asses..   

[yakeepi]

Where did you get those figures from? Uighurs are 48%, Han is 46%, and the rest are of Central Asian decent. Many Uighurs are mad because the Chinese have employed the Han migrants, who are better skilled and have more experience, instead of them who have lived there for such a long time. The companies don't want to waste money on training Uighurs to work in the industrial parts of Xinjiang. Even the Northerners aren't too happy. But they are all Sufis, so the Chinese government doesn't screw around with their religious practices.

Your data is wrong either. I checked in 2003, there are 45% of Uighurs, 40% of Chinese Han, and 7% of kazaks.

Uighurs're employed in every level of the industries in China and they live in all major Chinese cities. Yes, in south Xinjiang some Uighurs have some problem due to backward environment but they're not the majority.

Wipe them out !! Kick their asses..   

Many Uighurs serve in Chinese troops or work as the security force, and contributed their lives for the country.

In 1990s, quite a few Uighur policemen were killed, in fighting with ETIM.

[yakeepi]

I just checked the Chinese education law in Xinjiang, Chinese language is not even mandatory for any minorities! They can choose any language school they want.

The problem is that Chinese language should be mandatory for everyone, since the employment opportunities are associated with it. Just imagine in US English is not mandatory for any school! The government just  respects too much the minority culture and this makes them less advantage.

And the top job Uighur graduates want is the government positions - the civial service positions, the second is the state-owned companies, and they don't even give private company a thought, this is the reality.

Only 4.5% of Chinese Uighur graduates want to work for private companies, while China is privating at the fast pace. We can not stay in communism forever, they got to change the mind.

[tkhan]

I have a question for our Chinese friends.  Last year a Chinese student at my university converted to Islam after befriending a friend of mine (Saudi for all those who say that Saudis are lazy, hedonistic evil people).  When his parents found out, they were very upset.  It is not b/c they have a religion, they are atheist, but because they apparently have a hatred of Muslims.  His mother told him that they wouldn't have cared if he became Christian, but Islam was out of the question.  Anyways, he went back to China in teh summer and his whole family was pressuring him constantly to leave Islam.  He hasn't yet, but it is very dificult for him and he has stopped coming to Friday prayers, etc.  When I spoke to him last, he mentioned that Chinese in general hate Muslims more than any other faith group.  Is this true?

[yakeepi]

I have a question for our Chinese friends.  Last year a Chinese student at my university converted to Islam after befriending a friend of mine (Saudi for all those who say that Saudis are lazy, hedonistic evil people).  When his parents found out, they were very upset.  It is not b/c they have a religion, they are atheist, but because they apparently have a hatred of Muslims.  His mother told him that they wouldn't have cared if he became Christian, but Islam was out of the question.  Anyways, he went back to China in teh summer and his whole family was pressuring him constantly to leave Islam.  He hasn't yet, but it is very dificult for him and he has stopped coming to Friday prayers, etc.  When I spoke to him last, he mentioned that Chinese in general hate Muslims more than any other faith group.  Is this true?

I have to say this does happen. Most of regular Chinese are skectipcal for any religions.

For Muslim it's a particular hurdle today, the medias paint it as a violent, backward practice, mostly from western medias, which does influence people.

Since my grandparents used to live in a Chinese Muslim neighbourhood, I know it's not.

[Daredevil]

I have a question for our Chinese friends.  Last year a Chinese student at my university converted to Islam after befriending a friend of mine (Saudi for all those who say that Saudis are lazy, hedonistic evil people).  When his parents found out, they were very upset.  It is not b/c they have a religion, they are atheist, but because they apparently have a hatred of Muslims.  His mother told him that they wouldn't have cared if he became Christian, but Islam was out of the question.  Anyways, he went back to China in teh summer and his whole family was pressuring him constantly to leave Islam.  He hasn't yet, but it is very dificult for him and he has stopped coming to Friday prayers, etc.  When I spoke to him last, he mentioned that Chinese in general hate Muslims more than any other faith group.  Is this true?

Answer that question youself, I mean making a sweeping statement like "hate Muslims more than any other faith group" is that even reasonable ? How would a Muslim react if one of their family converts to Budhism or Christianity ? would't they try to persuade them to stay with Islam ?

[ISI2003]

i have meet a uighur (pronounced "wee-ger")
the chinese are subjegating them, and they are imposing their culture (beyond just the language)

these people are basically turkish (or at least that is how my friend portrays his people as)

i friend is secular for public matters, but religious for personal matters

[yakeepi]

Answer that question youself, I mean making a sweeping statement like "hate Muslims more than any other faith group" is that even reasonable ? How would a Muslim react if one of their family converts to Budhism or Christianity ? would't they try to persuade them to stay with Islam ?

For Christien it's qutie easy since their impression is that Christian doesn't impose strict rules, same as Budhism(for Chinese Budhism doesn't requies any rule, just claim you believe).

[Kim Jong-il Hater]

China just made new airport for Uighur muslims who want to go Hajj and Saudi embaessy is now under making for Chinese muslims from North Western regions. Saudi team said that Chinese muslims gets best treatment and respect from Chinese counter parts.

I know many Chinese in high politics places and they all have the upmost respect for muslims and muslim culture and want more and more ties with muslims because we was superpower when London and Paris was eating dogs.

This type of propoganda doesnt suite you kimmy so kindly cut the crap. Thanks.

It's not just because their Muslim. Notice that it's the Uighurs, there are many other Muslim minorities in China. I think it's mainly because the Uighurs have been pan-Turkic for so long and have more ties to their Turkic brothers and want to keep their culture Turkic, rather then turning to the Han.

And the top job Uighur graduates want is the government positions - the civial service positions, the second is the state-owned companies, and they don't even give private company a thought, this is the reality.

Only 4.5% of Chinese Uighur graduates want to work for private companies, while China is privating at the fast pace. We can not stay in communism forever, they got to change the mind.

Maybe because they see that the Chinese companies who are taking advantge of their resources aren't even employing them and they want to change that. Plus the private sectors are very corrupt which Sufis do not like. Sufis are not greedy and like to give to others, but many Chinese corporations suck and are very greedy. Imagine if Sufis were at the top of the ladder, that would mess up the system and that's why corporations won't take Uighurs in and that's why Uighurs don't want jobs with corrupt corporations.

[Sixth]

Kim Jong-il Hater, are you southern Korean? why do you hate Kim Jong-il ?

[Sufi]

Needless to say, they're doomed.

You squid loving papi they are not doomed, not until Allah's help remains with them. And that it will for as long as they continue to fight For Allah and his deen.  Just remember that most Pakistanis will care little about Sino-Pak friendship, if it turns out that indeed Muslims are being oppressed in China. It took only 19000 of us to occupy all of Spain for hundreds of years, so before hoards of Muslim men cross the border and ruin your economy, you would be wise to not act in arrogance, and pay heed to this warning.

[Kim Jong-il Hater]

Kim Jong-il Hater, are you southern Korean? why do you hate Kim Jong-il ?

Nope, I'm an American. I'm half-Pakistani. I hate Kim Jong-il due to the oppression of 23M people, 16M people starving while he sits on his fat @$$ everyday, 200K in the gulag, and the brainwashing of the entire population. Check out my blog.

[Sixth]

Nope, I'm an American. I'm half-Pakistani, what is the other half?

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you should change your name to China-Hater

[skylance]

we could do anything we want in our territory,it's none of others' business.

if you think you are chinese,then perform like a chinese.
if you think you are a foreigner,then perform like a foreigner in Chinese territory!

[Kim Jong-il Hater]

Nope, I'm an American. I'm half-Pakistani, what is the other half?

=====================================

you should change your name to China-Hater

I'm just against the oppression of Uighurs. That's it.

we could do anything we want in our territory,it's none of others' business.

if you think you are chinese,then perform like a chinese.
if you think you are a foreigner,then perform like a foreigner in Chinese territory!

Really nice words. So I'm guessing it's no ones buisness if suddenly the Chinese government started to kill everyone who wore blue?

[gnak]

It took only 19000 of us to occupy all of Spain for hundreds of years, so before hoards of Muslim men cross the border and ruin your economy, you would be wise to not act in arrogance, and pay heed to this warning.

so what if china oppresses muslims it’s a communist country it oppresses all religion

It took only 19000 of us to occupy all of Spain for hundreds of years, so before hoards of Muslim men cross the border and ruin your economy, you would be wise to not act in arrogance, and pay heed to this warning.

well in the past the mongol chinese army conqured nearly all muslim lands

[yakeepi]

Just remember that most Pakistanis will care little about Sino-Pak friendship, if it turns out that indeed Muslims are being oppressed in China. It took only 19000 of us to occupy all of Spain for hundreds of years, so before hoards of Muslim men cross the border and ruin your economy, you would be wise to not act in arrogance, and pay heed to this warning.

I don't know where you stand when Iraq invaded Kuwait, or whom you're against when India made military agreement with Iran.

Give me a break, ok

Maybe because they see that the Chinese companies who are taking advantge of their resources aren't even employing them and they want to change that. Plus the private sectors are very corrupt which Sufis do not like. Sufis are not greedy and like to give to others, but many Chinese corporations suck and are very greedy. Imagine if Sufis were at the top of the ladder, that would mess up the system and that's why corporations won't take Uighurs in and that's why Uighurs don't want jobs with corrupt corporations.

I agree with you here. Uighurs don't have a merchant culture tradition and they're kind of nomad people. And this will put them in some kind of disadvantage place.

But they got to change themselves. A nomad culture can not survive in today's world, and Chinese can not wait too long.

[Sixth]

I'm just against the oppression of Uighurs. That's it.

---------------

you are living under a western projection of chinese netherworld.

[yakeepi]

Chinese are against separatists, we don't have any problem with any religion.

But anybody who practices religion with a separatist mind, can not count on our mercy.

[skylance]

I'm just against the oppression of Uighurs. That's it.
Really nice words. So I'm guessing it's no ones buisness if suddenly the Chinese government started to kill everyone who wore blue?

for god's sake,we are Chinese,not stupid american crusadors or greedy israelis zionist.

any chinese muslims are treated like normal citizens even better.

[yakeepi]

Guys have to remember, in today's world national interest overwhelms the religion interest, this is the ultimate truth.

Pakistan force is fighting with Taliban in Afghanistan, also are at odd with its president, both are Muslims. This is for Pakistan's interest, not for Islamic interest.

[zhou]

for god's sake,we are Chinese,not stupid american crusadors or greedy israelis zionist.

any chinese mulims are treated like normal citizens even better.

Yeah!The crusadors killed and is killing millions of Iraqi muslims.But no one care about that because the number is big enough.They don't care .But they believe China has an oppressive policy to her muslims after a police action was taken.
I think the Pakistani believe the west report only because the west killed enough muslims.Whatever the Chinese did not fight with the muslims for hundreds of years but the Christian did!

[Kim Jong-il Hater]

I agree with you here. Uighurs don't have a merchant culture tradition and they're kind of nomad people. And this will put them in some kind of disadvantage place.

But they got to change themselves. A nomad culture can not survive in today's world, and Chinese can not wait too long.

That's true, but I think if Chinese corporations can shape up, then the Uighurs will flourish.

I'm just against the oppression of Uighurs. That's it.

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you are living under a western projection of chinese netherworld.

No I'm not.

for god's sake,we are Chinese,not stupid american crusadors or greedy israelis zionist.

any chinese muslims are treated like normal citizens even better.

Notice that it's the oppression of the Uighurs, not Chinese Muslims. I've stated before that the Chinese don't like them because of their close links to other Turkic peoples and their nationalist sentiment.

Some of us here are Americans you know. I never said the Chinese are stupid.    

[marchpole]

another piece of bullshit by the western press.

when the chinese put a foot down on the terrorits, it is oppression of religion and minorities.

when the americans kill the terrorits by the bucketfuls, it is in self-defence and for world stability.

bollocks!

[yakeepi]

The bizarre thing is that Muslim world is so strongly influenced by the western medias, controlled by the ones they hate the most.

But the educated Chinese view toward Islamic world is much less influenced by the same bunch of propaganda, it's quite a contrast.

[Kim Jong-il Hater]

another piece of bullshit by the western press.

when the chinese put a foot down on the terrorits, it is oppression of religion and minorities.

when the americans kill the terrorits by the bucketfuls, it is in self-defence and for world stability.

bollocks!

Judging by what you said in the end (bollocks!), you obviously have never been to the US. And you've also failed to notice how liberal our media is. The US has been criticized so much by Human Rights groups in the War on Terror.

[yakeepi]

how liberal our media is

Well if you speak for the US, then I don't have much to say, not the same boat.

BTW, all that medias have no credit in Chinese eyes.


For Chinese, American media generates the same tone like Indian media, that we never take very seriously.

When you guys start to trust Indian medias, let us know. We probably will give US medias some thought.

[seawolf]

Nope, I'm an American. I'm half-Pakistani. I hate Kim Jong-il due to the oppression of 23M people, 16M people starving while he sits on his fat @$$ everyday, 200K in the gulag, and the brainwashing of the entire population. Check out my blog.

Mr. Kim Jong-il Hater, since you're half Pakistani, you must know The US message to Pakistan after 911 that in case Pakistan would not cooperate with the US in its anti-terrorist war, Pakistan should be prepared to be bombed and should be prepared to be bombed back to stone age. How did you feel about it that time? If you can live with it, I guess you can live with  China's way of handling its internal affairs too.

How many Iraqis died since the US invasion of their country for MDW which is never found after nearly 3 years search. China will never dance to the music played by the western midia what ever it has to sing. We are justified to keep China integrate, is it an evil thing?