49 replies to this topic

[btruant2002]

Sounds cryptic. But wonder why the Generals of Pakistani army have found none of it yet.

 

there are tons of military solutions  but can not be discussed here

[faizan khaliq]

centre  of gravity  PA relations with US and somehow or the other it is always compromised

[btruant2002]

Any strategy at any time takes into account the larger geopolitics and cannot be divorced of the context in which it has to be executed. Therefore, any military solution purportedly available is circumsrcibed by a host of such issues. So long as all the entire geopolitics as well as economics are not factored in, the military solution you speak of cannot be called a solution, but a theory to work on.

 

 

centre  of gravity  PA relations with US and somehow or the other it is always compromised

[faizan khaliq]

you are right  ,it is hard to disagree what you said

[GreenBeret]

 

Your plan is flawed in many ways.

 

--Why not use large numbers of foot soldiers with basic tools. We have a large population of able bodied youth which could be trained for the job. After Napoleon defeated the Prusians and forced them to limit their military numbers they devised an interesting plan. Firstly, they started nationwide movements that aimed to train youths and promote nationalism. Secondly, they started recruiting training and retiring army personnel quickly. Pakistan could similar techniques to raise reasonably trained soldiers in a short enough time in large numbers.

However, given our recent troubles with anti-state elements I would prefer these programs be state run under army supervision. Add a good speaker for motivation who focuses on two points during training:

a)Fighting against the state would make them Khuwarij.

b)Kashmir is a legit cause for Jihad.

Like an advance version of that course they had back in the day for students. Can't remember the name.

 

Remember what happened in 1980's and how we are still paying the price? where will these trained men go after the war is over?they wont sit quietly and go back to their jobs for sure, so Napoleon era example is wrong. this is 21st century, its better to win a war by strategy rather than sacrificing hordes and incur thousands of dead or worse disabled soldiers. 

 

 

---Equip them with cost effective weapons that can be manufactures in large numbers. We already produce Shoulder fired anti air (Anza) and Anti Armour (Bakhtar Shikan) so these can be produced en-mass along with other weapons we produce.

 

Their training of using guns will make them much more dangerous to live in a peaceful society after the war, you are seeing the examples since 2001 and whats happening in Pakistan and rest of muslim world. secondly India will not sit quietly if such a front is opened by Pakistan and India may use a much aggressive backing in Balochistan, gawadar and sindh, infact terrorist attacks will increase ten folds in all major cities of Pakistan. Thirdly, supply lines for transferring of weapons is a crucial point and when intercepted and brought on world media will bring more bad name to Pakistan, an excuse for which India is waiting for to strike us.

 

--- We could fortify our border and use most of the low trained tropes to man the posts there supervised by ex-servicemen who are in the condition to serve. This would free up a lot of the well trained force to be used for offensive ops. The bulk of the trained fighters should be sent into the Kashmir theatre used for ambushing the Indian forces and using gorilla tactics ahead of the Army. Pak Army engages the Indians head on, these guys attack their supply lines and other vulnerable targets.

The border is already manned by light forces with low caliber weapons, Rangers and FC. the ex-service men (or reservists) usually take over the admin tasks in the GHQ and other HQ's. The bulk of the trained Pak armed forces, which u mention to fight in Kashmir are short on many accounts; number of troops lesser than India in kashmir, transport choppers which are vital for sustaining and continuing an advance in mountain region. The SSG is used for guerrilla warfare, not some rag-tag fresh recruits but for that SSG needs support from locals, which it didnt get in 1965, so in 2014/15, im not too sure. Lastly, India will try to open a southern front to stretch Pakistan forces from north till south so the bulk of Pak Army cannot be just sent to the north. 

---The problem remains of the air-force and how to counter the Indian superiority in that field. We obviously can't spend our way to victory so we would have to use cheaper methods and tactics. If my memory serves me right, the Egyptians knew the Israelis had a superior air-force so they devised their tactics accordingly. They used infantry spread out formations to counter it, instead of using a lot of armour of air force to fight them off. This was effective enough and allowed them to make significant gains initially.

We could also invest in advance SAM systems and other defences to help supplement our AF. The point is not to match the Indian AF unit for unit rather to hold them off sufficiently and provide sufficient cover to achieve the targets.

I am not sure if this is even possible but if the AWACS could be used to help make our effectively BVR capable, as in F7ps just carry SD10s and the AWACS controls the target selection and guidance. Just an idea.

Im not really worried about the PAF handling IAF, but at the end its the numbers that count for attrition losses. BVR's/AWACS/Air refuellers.....Im not sure if these come to play at all, though chances of AWACS are yes, but in the end PAF/IAF both have bases in close vicinity of Kashmir and the border so BVR's and refuellers have slim chances.

 

---One important things we could try is to get some fighters– of the 'really motivated' variety—in before hand to attack their Airbases during the conflict. Same could be used with Navy and Army.

SSW is the force you are talking about, its better to take out the airfields with CM's and save lives of highly trained men.

 

---I am sure there are ways to use cheaper tactics – like use a bunch of fast torpedo and missile boats and deploy many Sonar devises in the see that could help us see the see enemy movements. I don't know much about this – but I am sure there are ways to minimize the threat to our ports and avoid getting blockaded.

 

Can Pakistan get Kashmir in less than 10 days, say 5-7 days?if no, then forget about it coz either side may use the nuclear option and dont think that India will not use the nuclear option if it sees that Kashmir is going in Pakistan hands, plus that external pressure of embargo and isolation.

[MoThSmOkE]

Freedom for J&K can only come from within.

 

Although the population in general is unhappy with India's rule, independence is not in sight. Considering the number of Indian army personnels stationed there. 

 

At the moment, Pakistan vis-a-vis India is at its weakest. 

 

Technically a Kargil like operation to squeeze out Highway 1A to squeeze out India's supplies to J&K. But its not as simple. India would open up another front. 

 

Pakistan failed to take the opportunity in 1962 during the Indo-China war. 

[btruant2002]

You are quite right. 1962 was the defining opportunity that slipped out of Pakistan's hands. India was getting walloped by the Chinese and ill-trained and ill-equipped armed forces were seriously stretched yielding ground to anybody he cared to give it a little push. 

 

May be Pakistan thought waiting  a little more would see the disintegration of the neighbour because of internal contradictions after the disastrous Chinese confrontation. Had that happened, Kashmir would have been easy picking.

 

May be the US had a role in restraining Pakistan from making its move 1962 because of it did not want India totally destabilised by the commies. China was more important for the US at all times than any other country in Asia. It is as such even now.

 

By 1965 the situation had changed. India had firmed up ties with the Soviets and regrouped. And Pakistan misread the situation, thinking India would still be down in the dumps and Kashmir could be its for the taking. Moreover, Pakistan might have misread the US stand thinking it could come to its help because the West could be irritated by India's drift towards Moscow. But there too the US kept its cards secret and did not release vital supplies.

 

And I do not think that since 1965 Pakistan has had any realistic chance of freeing at least the Valley.

 

For now, there is little to no chance, barring a geopolitical miracle.

 

Freedom for J&K can only come from within.

 

Although the population in general is unhappy with India's rule, independence is not in sight. Considering the number of Indian army personnels stationed there. 

 

At the moment, Pakistan vis-a-vis India is at its weakest. 

 

Technically a Kargil like operation to squeeze out Highway 1A to squeeze out India's supplies to J&K. But its not as simple. India would open up another front. 

 

Pakistan failed to take the opportunity in 1962 during the Indo-China war. 

[MoThSmOkE]

True btruant2002.

 

1962 was a golden opportunity for the taking. Had Pakistan attacked India during the time Chinese were giving India a lesson, today things would have been different. 

 

With India's forces occupied North and North East, opening up another front on the north west would have stacked the odds heavily in our favour. Considering the logistics India would have needed to supply Kashmir to protect it, things would have been impossible to protect Kashmir. 

 

In some accounts, China even asked Pakistan to settle scores but it seems the West convinced Pakistan not to. 

 

For now, Pakistanis and Kashmiris would just have to stay put and hope things dont go worse. The west is very concerned about perceptions about terrorism, and India's propoganda machine has been doing well to convince the world that Kashmir is not a legitimate freedom struggle.

[Eagle2000]

Pak fauj will get it free one day InshaAllah. That's the only hope for me and I am from Kashmir by the way.

[SLD10]

Insha'Allah kashmir will be freed from india.