234 replies to this topic

[buckingham]

Genetics is only a Physical factor, you should not ignore the Psychological factor. It's the deep emotion between Chinese and Pakistani. Who is worthy to work with, we have learned it from the history.

True friends just dont betray you while sometime your brothers do, China is the only true ally Pakistan can rely on, besides itself.

[aamirzs]

+1

True friends just dont betray you while sometime your brothers do, China is the only true ally Pakistan can rely on, besides itself.

[buckingham]

If Pakistan does get F-20 in J-10B specs, I would argue those F-20s should be good enough to take on any Indian fighters MKIs, or Mig 35s, even Typhoons. What is impressive for J-10B is not the AESA nor IRST, it is the new EW equipments, they will give Pakistan a reasonable edge over MKIs, considering the AESA and IRST are pretty much on par for those two fighters.

[M_ZEE32]

http://mk-mk.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=92...amp;topic=11273

[tank131]

Sorry to say but the conversation is not informative.

Firstly...It appears as though PAF will NOT purchase J-10A.  ACM stated that PAF gave a list of upgrades for the J-10 and they are currently being extensively tested by China.  Until these tests are done PAF is holding off on the FC-20.  That leads me to believe that the J-10B was created specifically to PAF requirements (the J-10A has already been inducted in numbers in excess of 100) and it is the varient currently being tested so that will likely be the J-10 in PAF...not the J-10A.

As for the J-10B being superior to the Rafale and Typhoon, its rediculous.  Where are they getting the number of 0.3 for the RCS.  China hasnt even officially acknowledged it let alone release such numbers.  The J-10's avionics are nowhere near the ballpark compared to those of Rafale or Typhoon, AESA or not.  While it may be possible that the J-10B radar be nearly as good as the European ones...i find it highly unlikely.  J-10B will be in the ballpark (as far as capability, but it wont be better than them beyond perhaps manouverability and price).

[Archangelesk99]

As for the J-10B being superior to the Rafale and Typhoon, its rediculous.  Where are they getting the number of 0.3 for the RCS.  China hasnt even officially acknowledged it let alone release such numbers.  The J-10's avionics are nowhere near the ballpark compared to those of Rafale or Typhoon, AESA or not.  While it may be possible that the J-10B radar be nearly as good as the European ones...i find it highly unlikely.  J-10B will be in the ballpark (as far as capability, but it wont be better than them beyond perhaps manouverability and price).

Hmmmm the FC-20 Pakistan receives may not be as good as eurofighter......the J-10B China has is already better than the present Eurofighters in service.....only F-22/F-35/Pak-Fa are better and that's not going to be the case much longer in a year when J-xx prototype flies  

Currently the relative air force advanced technology rankings are:
USA, Russia slightly ahead of China, then Europe, then India

2020:
China and USA about the same, then Russia, then Europe, then India

2030:
China, then USA, other rankings same as previous

*Japan and S.Korea have as advanced weapons sciences as Europe but simply do not have the desire to put too much effort into them because USA is stationed there and oversees their militaries

[buckingham]

Sorry to say but the conversation is not informative.

Firstly...It appears as though PAF will NOT purchase J-10A.  ACM stated that PAF gave a list of upgrades for the J-10 and they are currently being extensively tested by China.  Until these tests are done PAF is holding off on the FC-20.  That leads me to believe that the J-10B was created specifically to PAF requirements (the J-10A has already been inducted in numbers in excess of 100) and it is the varient currently being tested so that will likely be the J-10 in PAF...not the J-10A.

As for the J-10B being superior to the Rafale and Typhoon, its rediculous.  Where are they getting the number of 0.3 for the RCS.  China hasnt even officially acknowledged it let alone release such numbers.  The J-10's avionics are nowhere near the ballpark compared to those of Rafale or Typhoon, AESA or not.  While it may be possible that the J-10B radar be nearly as good as the European ones...i find it highly unlikely.  J-10B will be in the ballpark (as far as capability, but it wont be better than them beyond perhaps manouverability and price).

Anyway, from the pics, we can conclude J-10B is in the same league with (Rafale & Typhoon) for a fraction of the price, what do we expect then.

[buckingham]

Hmmmm the FC-20 Pakistan receives may not be as good as eurofighter......the J-10B China has is already better than the present Eurofighters in service.....only F-22/F-35/Pak-Fa are better and that's not going to be the case much longer in a year when J-xx prototype flies  

Currently the relative air force advanced technology rankings are:
USA, Russia slightly ahead of China, then Europe, then India

2020:
China and USA about the same, then Russia, then Europe, then India

2030:
China, then USA, other rankings same as previous

*Japan and S.Korea have as advanced weapons sciences as Europe but simply do not have the desire to put too much effort into them because USA is stationed there and oversees their militaries

Only the US, China and India (if they dont buy any more) will be able to develope their own fighters 20-30 years later. EU is largely peaceful and it is still not easy for them to co-operate.  Russia is on it down, and its defence industry will broke as soon as India and China stop buying. S.K. and Japan are just too small, they just cant afford to throw enough resources into such a project.  And currently, I think US have about 20 years' advantage over China and another 10 or so over India, it will be still on pole position before 2050, though its advantage will be halved every 10-15 years.

[tank131]

Archangel,

In what ways is the J-10B currently better than the Typhoon?  Yes price and manouverability, but overall performance...I doubt it very much.  Bang for the buck, there is no question that the J-10B is better, but in pure performance, there is no way to compare.  We know what is on the Typhoon, there is only speculation as to what is on the J-10B.

I think that people here have a few misunderstandings with respect to avionics like AESA radars.  Automatically people assume that the AESA radar is superior to any non-AESA radar when this is simply not the case.  For example the Vixen 500E while it is a good radar is nowhere near the league of the APG-68(v)9 in terms of range and overall performance.  We dont even know the specs of the J-10B's radar and people say it is better than the CAPTOR.  I am not saying it wont be better, but it is a huge statement to make saying that a radar that we know nothing about is better than one of the best radars available today, or that a fighter that we dont know much about is better than arguably the best available fighter on the market (Raptor is not on the world market...for US only).  That being said, I do agree that the J-10B will be among the 4-5most advanced fighters available for the next decade or so (JSF, Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen NG, and J-10B) (raptor isnt being offered officially, and T-50 is just began testing).

[buckingham]

Archangel,

In what ways is the J-10B currently better than the Typhoon?  Yes price and manouverability, but overall performance...I doubt it very much.  Bang for the buck, there is no question that the J-10B is better, but in pure performance, there is no way to compare.  We know what is on the Typhoon, there is only speculation as to what is on the J-10B.

I think that people here have a few misunderstandings with respect to avionics like AESA radars.  Automatically people assume that the AESA radar is superior to any non-AESA radar when this is simply not the case.  For example the Vixen 500E while it is a good radar is nowhere near the league of the APG-68(v)9 in terms of range and overall performance.  We dont even know the specs of the J-10B's radar and people say it is better than the CAPTOR.  I am not saying it wont be better, but it is a huge statement to make saying that a radar that we know nothing about is better than one of the best radars available today, or that a fighter that we dont know much about is better than arguably the best available fighter on the market (Raptor is not on the world market...for US only).  That being said, I do agree that the J-10B will be among the 4-5most advanced fighters available for the next decade or so (JSF, Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen NG, and J-10B) (raptor isnt being offered officially, and T-50 is just began testing).

He might be just a bit over exicted, or hoping J-10B is better, but as you said, we dont really know, I think PA may have some information, but they wont tell us Su35 will be on the market as well, and probaly we should include Mig35 too, but anyway it looks J-10B  is at least as capable as Mig-35.

[Archangelesk99]

Archangel,

In what ways is the J-10B currently better than the Typhoon?  Yes price and manouverability, but overall performance...I doubt it very much.  Bang for the buck, there is no question that the J-10B is better, but in pure performance, there is no way to compare.  We know what is on the Typhoon, there is only speculation as to what is on the J-10B.

I think that people here have a few misunderstandings with respect to avionics like AESA radars.  Automatically people assume that the AESA radar is superior to any non-AESA radar when this is simply not the case.  For example the Vixen 500E while it is a good radar is nowhere near the league of the APG-68(v)9 in terms of range and overall performance.  We dont even know the specs of the J-10B's radar and people say it is better than the CAPTOR.  I am not saying it wont be better, but it is a huge statement to make saying that a radar that we know nothing about is better than one of the best radars available today, or that a fighter that we dont know much about is better than arguably the best available fighter on the market (Raptor is not on the world market...for US only).  That being said, I do agree that the J-10B will be among the 4-5most advanced fighters available for the next decade or so (JSF, Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen NG, and J-10B) (raptor isnt being offered officially, and T-50 is just began testing).

It is difficult to get a precise figure because even Eurofighter keeps much data hidden.  That's why inductive reasoning must be used to derive some sort of conjecture.  From what I've seen so far, it seems China is definitely ahead of Europe in avionics and powerplant.  EU seems to be bogged down, like USA, in proprietary rights management and exorbitant labour costs, but largely worse than USA.  This is why progress is somewhat slower on the EF than it should be and why USA's rate of progress is slowing, thereby refuting the premise that solely because the maximal extremities of conventional progress achievable by the scientific method having been reached is the primary reason for this.  We have only to look at China's progress in developing new wind turbine technology and the recent micro-BX satellite to harvest a clear countervail to this argument.  

Here's an article from 10 years ago referring to the current eurofighters in service:

conclusion's excerpt:

What conclusions can we draw about the Typhoon ? The notion that the aircraft is "almost as good as an F-22" is not supportable, indeed upgrading the F-15 with engines and a radar/IRS&T/AAM package of the same generation as that of the Typhoon would equalise almost all advantages held by the Typhoon over older F-15C/E variants. By the same token, no upgrades performed on the F/A-18A/C would equalise the performance advantages of the Typhoon over these aircraft.

The strength of the Typhoon is its very modern and comprehensive avionic package, especially that in the RAF variant, and its excellent agility when operated around its optimum combat radius of about 300 NMI (a figure to be found in older Eurofighter literature, which has since disappeared with the export drive to compete against the bigger F-15 and F-22).

The Typhoon's weaknesses are its F/A-18C class weight and thrust and the implications of this in combat at extended operational radii, and the longer term sensitivity of its BVR weapons advantage to equivalent technological developments in opposing fighters.

In terms of where to position the Typhoon in the current menagerie of fighter aircraft, it can be best described as an F/A-18C sized fighter with BVR systems and agility performance better than older F-15 models, similar to growth F-15 models with same generation systems and engines, but inferior to the F-15 in useful operating radius. The Typhoon is not a stealth aircraft, despite various assertions to this effect, nor is it a genuine supercruiser like the F-22. Its design incorporates none of the features seen in very low observable types, nor does the EJ200 incorporate the unique design features of the F119 and F120 powerplants.

The Typhoon is certainly not a lemon, although the wisdom of mass producing a high performance conventional fighter of its ilk in a period where stealth is about to hit mass production in the F-22 and JSF programs could be seriously questioned. It represents what is likely to be the last major evolutionary step in the teen series design philosophy.

http://www.ausairpower.net/typhoon.html

*P.S.  I'm getting ready for finals so cheers!!!!!!

[tank131]

Please sight examples of how the Chinese avionics are better than those of Typhoon.  You gave a comparison between Typhoon and F-15 (arguably the best fighter ever to fly with a record of over 100:0).  The comparison cited above is also rather weak...while avionics of F-15E and Typhoon are relatively equal, the Typhoon is far stealthier and more manouverable than the F-15.  The Typhoon is a better aircraft than the F-15E (though not by much).  However there is no evidence that the Chinese avionics are on par with Europe let alone the US.  I would say the Chinese avionics are currently at the level of Russia...maybe slightly better but not yet to european standars.  

As for powerplants...the Chinese are very far behind the europeans in this respect.  The chinese have yet to develop a mainstream engine for any of their top fighters. The WS-13 for the JF-17 has yet to be completed.  It will likely have ~19,000lbs of thrust and have slightly better efficiency and durability than the Rd-93.  The J-10 and J-11 are still using russion Al-31FN which delivers ~27,400lbs of thrust at full afterburn while the EJ200 delievers 20,000lbs.  The difference is that the Typhoon has 2 EJ200 for a total of 40,000lb of thrust (TWR of ~1.67) whereas the J-10 has only the 27,400lbs (TWR ~1.27).

As for the stealth era...well, its highly unlikey that the Typhoon, rafale, Gripen NG, and J-10B would be finding themselves without utility.  No nation can afford only stealth fighters in their arsenal...even the life of the F-15 is being extended with F-15SE.  The Typhoon will be able to hold its own.

BTW good luck with your final!

[buckingham]

Please sight examples of how the Chinese avionics are better than those of Typhoon.  You gave a comparison between Typhoon and F-15 (arguably the best fighter ever to fly with a record of over 100:0).  The comparison cited above is also rather weak...while avionics of F-15E and Typhoon are relatively equal, the Typhoon is far stealthier and more manouverable than the F-15.  The Typhoon is a better aircraft than the F-15E (though not by much).  However there is no evidence that the Chinese avionics are on par with Europe let alone the US.  I would say the Chinese avionics are currently at the level of Russia...maybe slightly better but not yet to european standars.  

As for powerplants...the Chinese are very far behind the europeans in this respect.  The chinese have yet to develop a mainstream engine for any of their top fighters. The WS-13 for the JF-17 has yet to be completed.  It will likely have ~19,000lbs of thrust and have slightly better efficiency and durability than the Rd-93.  The J-10 and J-11 are still using russion Al-31FN which delivers ~27,400lbs of thrust at full afterburn while the EJ200 delievers 20,000lbs.  The difference is that the Typhoon has 2 EJ200 for a total of 40,000lb of thrust (TWR of ~1.67) whereas the J-10 has only the 27,400lbs (TWR ~1.27).

As for the stealth era...well, its highly unlikey that the Typhoon, rafale, Gripen NG, and J-10B would be finding themselves without utility.  No nation can afford only stealth fighters in their arsenal...even the life of the F-15 is being extended with F-15SE.  The Typhoon will be able to hold its own.

BTW good luck with your final!

He can never prove that (J-10B is better) as China has never revealed details of any of its jte fighters to the public, however, PA must have an idea how they compare to each other now. Ask them if you know somebody in charge of PA and PM me

[Jazba-e-Kashmir]

China displays advancing air force
China displays its latest and most modern air force fighter jets that it hopes to sell abroad.

Focus on J-10 - one high ranked RAF officer comments about the plane.

-Pakistan has been mentioned in the bulletin from reuters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BH6L_TkaAk...feature=related


Peace

[haroons222]

China displays advancing air force
China displays its latest and most modern air force fighter jets that it hopes to sell abroad.

Focus on J-10 - one high ranked RAF officer comments about the plane.

-Pakistan has been mentioned in the bulletin from reuters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BH6L_TkaAk...feature=related


Peace

i felt that the RAF officer was finding it really hard to appreciate the J-10.Why do they keep referring to it as a 3rd gen. plane?i know for chinese a 4th generation is a 3rd generation,but reuters being a western media outlet should have atleast made the distinction.

[buckingham]

i felt that the RAF officer was finding it really hard to appreciate the J-10.Why do they keep referring to it as a 3rd gen. plane?i know for chinese a 4th generation is a 3rd generation,but reuters being a western media outlet should have atleast made the distinction.

This generation thing has been messed up as Russia and US had different views, and later American changed their views, anyway we all know J-10 is in F16C league for the least.

[Londo Molari]

i felt that the RAF officer was finding it really hard to appreciate the J-10.

Of course, he'd be in trouble with the RAF and his govt if he praised it. China is considered a potential enemy. Since WW2 information warfare (propaganda) has been as important as real battles.

Why do they keep referring to it as a 3rd gen. plane?i know for chinese a 4th generation is a 3rd generation,but reuters being a western media outlet should have atleast made the distinction.

Professional media people are not experts in fighter planes. They just go with whatever material is given to them. And China gave them material saying it is third generation. So they went with that.

[haroons222]

Another thing i am unclear about.So Russia is involved with its latest fighter jet projects with India, yet India is getting closer to the U.S. day by day, U.S. wants to use india against China....Does U.S. really trust India a 100%?I mean they are offering India their F-16s,and F-18s i believe, but those arent their latest fighters...so is it safe to say India is still closer to Russia than U.S.
Or maybe both of them dont care and would sell India anything as long as these idiots are willing to pay for it???its just confusing and hard to fit it into the geopolitical framework...

[Archangelesk99]

Another thing i am unclear about.So Russia is involved with its latest fighter jet projects with India, yet India is getting closer to the U.S. day by day, U.S. wants to use india against China....Does U.S. really trust India a 100%?I mean they are offering India their F-16s,and F-18s i believe, but those arent their latest fighters...so is it safe to say India is still closer to Russia than U.S.
Or maybe both of them dont care and would sell India anything as long as these idiots are willing to pay for it???its just confusing and hard to fit it into the geopolitical framework...

About 1990, India decided to open herself to western markets (china did in 1979) and its caused a great deal of social/cultural upheaval....hence right now India's not sure which way to go.....western, russian or just be itself.  USSR being gone and Russia's forging military ties with China also probably left it feeling vulnerable.  By contrast, China's economic power made her an automatic contender with the west because she was able to absorb (reject things it didn't want) the western influences much better than India.  Zhu Enlai was the forerunner before Deng Xiopeng agreed to market access to China in 79 and the former told the latter to be wary of cultural subversion more than anything, whereas in India, no such proper government supervision of the masses exists and there certainly would appear to be an exigency for such controls.

[aamirzs]

When are we getting J-10b, I though we should get one or two by this yr or yr after.

[tank131]

2013-2014

PAF wanted the plane to be extensively tested and all of its components to be matured by the time it inducts them.  This may be frustrating to us, but wise in general.  After all it will be the premier fighter aircraft of the PAF and it wants to make sure it has systems that work rather than look pretty.  PAF is lucky in that it has bought time with the induction of the JF-17 and the F-16block 52s being inducted later this year.  These will give the PAF the breathing room it needs until J-10B has met PAFs requirments.  Besides, no MMRCA until ~2015 in all likelyhood.

[Tiberia]

nice tank i agree with you on that.

[haroons222]

At the end of the day its a pity even the Indians are getting played with.I mean if you really think about it, nukes for us are a deterrent. It would benefit the whole region to move away from escalation. India is arming itself to the teeth at the behest of a nation 10000+ miles away and putting 1.3 billion lives in so much danger.If they could actually resolve the Kashmir issue, there is no reason we cant have normalized relations with them and the whole region can be a joint front against western global domination. So the only logical explanation is the infiltration of ultra hawkish zionist paid ppl in the Indian establishment or less likely some idiots with global domination dreams of their own:S.

Tank, how many block 52s are we getting(i read 36 somwhere..or maybe im mixing that with j-10As) and are these still paid for by the aid money? i know our earlier block 16s got upgraded and we bought some block 32s?what will be our F-16 fleet like once we are done with all the purchases and upgrades?

[tank131]

The original deal was for 18 with an option for 18 more.  Most of it is being paid for by Pakistan I believe.  Pakistan also was able to secure 14 more Block 52 (not sure if this is out of the option of additional 18 or a separate order due to the fact that the 14 block 15OCU that belong to PAF (from peace gate II) are not being released by the USN).  So total number that was approved was either 36 or 50 (depending on where those 14 came from), but currently the number PAF wants to acquire is 32 (18 + 14).  That could change in the future.  There are also the 46 MLU kits that PAF is getting which will bring the entire fleet to block 52 standard.

[Best of the Best]

The original deal was for 18 with an option for 18 more.  Most of it is being paid for by Pakistan I believe.  Pakistan also was able to secure 14 more Block 52 (not sure if this is out of the option of additional 18 or a separate order due to the fact that the 14 block 15OCU that belong to PAF (from peace gate II) are not being released by the USN).  So total number that was approved was either 36 or 50 (depending on where those 14 came from), but currently the number PAF wants to acquire is 32 (18 + 14).  That could change in the future.  There are also the 46 MLU kits that PAF is getting which will bring the entire fleet to block 52 standard.

Tank131 I just talked to a PAF squadron leader he told me the 14 F-16's you mentioned will be A/B and not the block 52+ he also said the option for 18 more F-16's will be exercised once the delivery of the current batch on order had taken place + the issue of 50 US personal on the base coming, they will come yes but then its just smoke and mirrors according to him, new options for JF-17 are being looked upon as we speak..... the SAAB Erieye is still being tested and experimented with but only one crew is ready and certified to use the aircraft another one is bing trained. The reason we havent gone for J-10 is financial only that's why its been put on hold and shall be exercised later.

[tank131]

The financial aspect isnt surprising.  Its expensive to induct 2 fighters at the same time (F-16blk 52 and JF-17) and an AEW&C system at the same time, let alone inducting another completely new fighter at the same time.

[AWA]

[Munir]

Time to discuss a drawing...

[AWA]

According to this image, FC-20 has conformal fuel tank. We will have to wait for actual development of FC-20, is it a basic requirement of PAF? Why is it showing a twin seater FC-20?
I guess PAF will be interested to induct Single seater FC-20 in greater numbers. Something wrong with the tail as well it has to be like J-10B (a little more elevated than J-10A) due to DSI intakes.

J-10X looks like a twin engined, twin tailed version of J-10A. As far as I know the concept of J-10X as depicted in this drawing has already been abandoned in the favor of J-11B and J-15, there is no such need exist now.

[safdar]

Time to discuss a drawing...

I wonder where you got this pic from munir.

Out of all of them the 3rd picture down (FC-20) looks quite awesome due to its wing root conformal tanks giving it some extra fuel and time and less drag in air, an idea taken from the Eurofighter typhoon dassault rafale (their best selling points), however, if you inspect the picture closely you will notice that the canards are just way too close  and tucked under the lip of tanks! This is just the out line of the drawing, in reality it would be just blended into the fuselage, and should look very much like the dassualt rafale tanks, BUT the FC-20s CFT are obscuring the single unit airbrakes on either side of the rear fuselage (that's a bit suspicious!). The Laser designator (similar to USA sniper pod) in the front and with no drop tanks and not forgetting the shorter vertical tail fin (compare dogfight capability between  F-16A/B short tail fins and later design F-16s) makes it look like a pure dogfighter breed, but no.. wait, its a twin seater and nullifies every thing said so far about a pure breed dogfighter!.  


The top picture, right from the start you would notice the radome and boom , indicating it definitely has an AESA radar. Lager trapezoid ventral fins and vertical tail fin, which should give more stability when targeting ground targets , but wait it's a single seater!

The point Im making is that the top picture and the third picture down  due to their DSI intakes, should  merged together.  But you cant put the FC-20 CFTs on the J-105 01 due to the canards, they are placed further away on the FC-20, and the airbrakes.  

It's a trick question i think (or maybe im just too rusty!) , only the top picture looks convincible FC-20.

[aziqbal]

guys can u imagine F16 C/D Block52+, JF17, FC-20 and AWACS in formation? probably most people will faint!!!

[safdar]

guys can u imagine F16 C/D Block52+, JF17, FC-20 and AWACS in formation? probably most people will faint!!!

How about all three systems competing against each other ( war games in one country, Pakistan), the whole world would probably faint.  

You don't have to hit the nail on the head just right now aziqbal, lets push the debate a little for the forum's sakes. Lol.

Yeh! I hear you aziqbal, but lets wait for all systems (jf-17, FC-20, F-16) some time to bond with each other in Pakistan! one of them has to be the alpha out of them all (the first one in you're fantasy formation I cant wait to see).

Me, I give weight to agility and maneuverability (pure aerodynamics) above all.

but yes I agree with you, it would be a site to remember (for the rest of the world), a multicultural airforce. take that you westerners.

[Shazman]

Will the FC20 have capabilities to take off/land from motorways (in case air fields are bombed in time of conflict). Have the chinese tested this on the J10A?

[hala]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/Sae...AFJ-10B01-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/Sae...LAAFJ-10B02.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/Sae...LAAFJ-10B03.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/Sae...LAAFJ-10B04.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/Sae...LAAFJ-10B05.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/Sae...LAAFJ-10B06.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/Sae...LAAFJ-10B07.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/Sae...LAAFJ-10B08.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/Sae...LAAFJ-10B09.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/Sae...AFJ-10B01-1.jpg
img.photobucket.com

[Munir]

Looks like flight testing is done and they are doing IFR testing. Matter of months before going to weapon testing. And they can do the radar tests anytime...

[AWA]

What a Beauty. I can not wait to see this sleek fighter in PAF colors.

3rd Prototype was flying according to the last update we got about J-10B. It seems to be the 4th prototype fitted with IFR Probe. There are more than a dozen yellow jets in the background. I am wondering are these J-10A or J-10B? Hard to identify from this angle but most probably J-10A.

[hala]

but i thought that paf demand was retractable IFR probe, but thaT seems to be fixed one!

[M_ZEE32]

Same thing I was about to quote after lookin at the pic ! Anf the Radar also seems conventional by design in FC-20 !

[AWA]

but i thought that paf demand was retractable IFR probe, but thaT seems to be fixed one!

Is it confirmed that PAF demanded Fixed IFR probe? Is there any information about the basic requirements laid by the PAF for FC-20?

Same thing I was about to quote after lookin at the pic ! Anf the Radar also seems conventional by design in FC-20 !

What do you mean by "Radar also seems conventional by design", please elaborate.

[M_ZEE32]

The nose cone in J-10B and FC-20 is different !