124 replies to this topic

[thunderinaction]

Rafale is better or the Su-30MKI.If it is then we better go for them.

[Winged_Trident]

SU 30MKI have Isreali and French ECM stuff right but FRENCH didn't gave you RAFALE = tech or cutting edge so Mirage 2009 have better ECM and ECCM and EW suite.

what man.....the French did not give the Rafales?????..........nice joke.the French has been dying to sell those to India but has not been successful yet ... its very funny .... :megalol :megalol :megalol

[Winged_Trident]

k guys ...just read this one abt the Rafale..... i suppose it was posted here long ago..... its an article b4 the Rafale stared entering service .... hope u guys post new article from AW&ST
---------------------------

Rafale Pilot Report

Rafale To Offer Multirole Mission Capability
DAVID M. NORTH/ISTRES, FRANCE

The aircraft will offer operators high performance, a reduced signature and sensor integration

The Dassault Aviation Rafale provides a high-performance platform for the integrated avionics and fusion of tactical information needed by today's pilots to effectively perform true multirole combat missions.

While the French fighter program was started in the early 1980s as a single aircraft to perform multiple roles for both the French air force and navy, the acquisition program was stalled for many years during French government budget deliberations. Despite the delay, the test program on the aircraft continued, and there has been some 3,600 hr. of test flying logged on the prototypes and one production two-seater.

However, during the development of the aircraft, the Thomson-CSF RBE2 radar, the Spectra integrated countermeasures suite and other sensor packages have continually been upgraded so that they are more than comparable with those of other modern-day fighters.

While aircraft performance is still a factor in any combat engagement, it is more often the performance of the active and passive sensors, aids to pilot situational awareness, electronic counter- measures and weapon capability that are the deciding factors in a combat engagement. Stealth technology applied to fighters is becoming a factor as well. While the Rafale is not in the same stealth leagueas the Lockheed Martin F-22, Dassault engineers claim that they have been able to reduce the signature of the Rafale by a factor of 10 to the Mirage 2000-5.

I was fortunate to be asked to fly the Rafale from Dassault's Istres Flight Test Center last month. The flight was with Philippe Rebourg, deputy chief test pilot for military aircraft at Dassault. The flight was to be in a B01. This is the prototype two-seater used primarily for performance testing, and was not equipped with the RBE2 radar. As a follow-on to the actual flight, I later spent time in the Rafale simulator that had been set up for demonstrations at the Dassault exhibit at last month's Paris air show. The simulator demonstration was with Jean Camus and Gerard Dailloux, both Dassault pilots.

Following a morning of briefings with Rebourg on the aircraft's systems, I suited up in a G-suit and harness specific to the Rafale. One feature of the flight equipment I appreciated was that the gloves were almost skin-tight, and were designed for use with the touch screens in the Rafale.

It was decided that with the limited briefing time, I would fly from the rear seat and Rebourg the front seat. The rear seat does not have a gear handle, control of the autothrottles or parking brake, and the pilot in the rear seat is unable to open the canopy. More importantly, the pilot in the rear seat can not activate the necessary systems in an emergency situation.

The B01 prototype on the Istres ramp was in a heavy load configuration with three 600-gal. drop tanks, two dummy Scalp cruise missiles and four Mica air-to-air missiles. The maximum takeoff weight for the prototypes is approximately 43,000 lb. Of the total ramp weight, some 11,000 lb. was fuel, and 1,400 lb. was in the center fuel tank. The first production aircraft has been launched for flight at close to 50,700 lb., and the Rafale is expected to be cleared to heavier weight prior to becoming operational. The heavy weight configuration would impose a maximum speed of Mach 0.9 and a minimum speed of 100 kt. Roll rate and maximum angle of attack also would be limited.

I eased into the rear Martin Baker Mk16F ejection seat. The leg restraints are built into the aircraft, thus separate garters are not required. The seat is angled back at slightly less than that of the Lockheed Martin F-16. In an ejection, the rear seat is the first through the canopy, followed by the front seat.

The instrument panel is dominated by a Sextant 10 X 10-in. multifunction liquid crystal display. The display is focused to infinity and during our mission mostly showed the route of flight. In combat operations, it would be used for tactical display. Both rear and front seats are equipped with a Sextant head-up display (HUD), also focused to infinity. Transitioning between the HUD and the large LCD required me to refocus a few times, but it was not onerous.

Rebourg started the two engines using the engine master switch. The Rafale's APU and both engines can be started automatically well within the 2-min. requirement of the French air force. With the APU already running, the two Snecma M88-2 engines can be started in close to 1 min. The Rafale is equipped with a single throttle for both engines, but the front seat has two small auxiliary throttles that can be engaged if the pilot needs to operate only one engine for any reason

Following the required ramp checks, I taxied the Rafale to Runway 33 at Istres. The aircraft responded precisely to the rudder pedal nosewheel steering input, and the brakes were very effective. Idle power for the heavy configuration resulted in a comfortable taxi speed. From the back seat, I could easily watch the canards move as we hit small bumps in the taxiway.

I lined up on the active runway, and Rebourg said I could hold the brakes until going into afterburner. Instead, with plenty of runway, I smoothly advanced the throttle through military power and into afterburner, and after a 3,000-ft. run, we became airborne at near 160 kt. The Rafale is equipped with a side-stick controller, with slightly more displacement than that of the F-16. Remembering my flights in the F-16, I avoided exerting too much pressure on the takeoff and made a gradual climb up to near 5,000 ft. with the gear up and in military power.

At this altitude and 300 kt., and clear of any traffic, I raised the aircraft's nose to 10 deg. and performed an aileron roll to the left, and then one to the right. Roll rate was 160-deg./sec. in the heavy configuration, but still respectable for all the drop tanks and weapons we had hanging from the aircraft. Rebourg said that the normal roll rate for a clean Rafale is 250-deg./sec. The fighter is equipped with a three-channel digital flight control system, with a backup two-channel analog system. Rebourg said that the only time you would notice the difference between the digital and analog systems in flight would be in close formation, or during inflight refueling, where the analog system would not respond as precisely to control inputs.

While at the lower altitude, we chose to look at the automatic terrain-following feature of the aircraft. Rebourg coached me into setting the autopilot requirements on the left-hand display, while he set up the autothrottle for 450 kt. The left multifunction display was primarily used for autopilot, radio and IFF functions, while the right display showed engine and fuel information.

As we descended to 300 ft., a floor level came up on the HUD and center display to show us our minimum flight altitude. Once in a relatively narrow river valley, the sides of the valley were shown in five levels, indicating how far we could turn in each direction. The automatic terrain- following worked flawlessly, although I had my hands resting lightly on the throttle and stick. The turns to different waypoints were well-coordinated by the Rafale, including one sharp turn at a 90-deg. bank angle. The input for the terrain-following was a digital database, using inertial navigation and GPS inputs for navigation. Rebourg said the system has worked well during development. The advantage of the digital database is that it is passive. Thomson is working on a radar-based terrain-following system, but that does not have a high priority right now.

I was impressed with how steady the Rafale was at this speed and altitude over changing Provence terrain at the high heat of the day and some good winds. I had no difficulty keeping the HUD flight parameters and the terrain-following information in focus during the low-altitude flight.

Afterburner was selected for a climb to 10,000 ft. During the cruise over the water, Rebourg had me selecting different parameters for the autopilot and showed me how well the HOTAS hands-on-throttle-and-stick worked in the Rafale. He also had me input data using the touch screens. Both methods worked well .

I started a loop in military power and 450 kt. using a 4g pullup and speed at the top was 180 kt. The aircraft was responsive both in pitch and roll control, and I ended up some 500 ft. from the starting altitude. For the next maneuver, I selected afterburner, banked some 75 deg. and pulled to the maximum allowable gs of 5.5, in the heavy configuration. Starting at 420 kt., the speed was 330 kt. after completing a 360-deg. turn.

Rebourg said that with a clean Rafale, using afterburner, you can enter a turn at 500 kt. and 10,000 ft., pull the maximum 9g and still accelerate. Cornering speed for the Rafale is 350 kt., he said. The Snecma M88-2 engines are in the 7.5-ton class for power, but for the export version of the Rafale, Dassault is considering installing 9.0-ton-class engines. This would give the Rafale improved sustained maneuvering performance, but not increase the aircraft's top speed of near Mach 1.8, Rebourg said.

The French test pilot said the potential move to the higher power engines is for performance gains only, and not to correct any problems with the Snecma M88-2 engines. He said there have been no problems with the 16,870-lb.-thrust rated engines (in afterburner) since they were installed in the Rafale in the early 1990s. The proof of that came during the flight as I went from afterburner to idle power and back to military during maneuvers. Rebourg said there were no limitations on the engines.

I then pulled the aircraft up to a nose-high attitude in the mid-engine power range. Maximum angle of attack in the heavy configuration is 21 deg., while it is 28 deg. when clean. Minimum airspeed is 100 kt. for the Rafale in any configuration. In the nose-high attitude at 118 kt., the aircraft was fully controllable in roll, and the nose wanted to drop. Rebourg said that to date, they have not been able to depart the aircraft into a spin.

During all of these maneuvers, my primary flight display was the Sextant HUD, which I found to contain all the necessary information in a format that was quickly assimilated and understandable. By this time, I also was very comfortable with the side-stick controller, both as to its position in the cockpit and to the response to control inputs. Having not flown a fighter for more than eight months, I thought I would have a tendency to overcontrol the aircraft. While that was true for the first few maneuvers, the flight control system response became smoother during the flight.

While level at 10,000 ft., and at 270 kt., I deployed the speedbrakes, which sent the canards front edge up and the elevons on each wing in opposite directions. There was virtually no change in pitch, but the aircraft gained between 10-30 ft. in altitude.

Rebourg next selected the automatic terrain sea-following mode, which sent the aircraft to a nose-down attitude, and the rate of descent slowed near 1,000 ft. at 360 kt. prior to leveling off at 300 ft., but the aircraft will be cleared to 50 ft. Despite the low level, the Rafale's performance so far had given me confidence in the aircraft's systems. Approaching the French coast, the terrain-following automatically switched from the sea mode to the digital terrain base.

During the flight back to Istres, Rebourg had me set up the back seat for an instrument landing approach to Runway 15. I found that with a little prodding from the front seat, I was able to configure the aircraft for the approach. He set the autothrottle to 130 kt., and a 16-deg. angle of attack. After capturing the glideslope at 2,000 ft. with the landing gear down, the autopilot kept us on centerline despite a tail wind in gusty conditions.

Following the waveoff, I entered the downwind for Runway 33. The field of view from the back seat was excellent during the downwind and 90-deg. position, but once I had to rely on the HUD for reference to the runway, I had difficulty in lining up with the monochromatic picture. I followed the flight path vector down at 3 deg. until 40 ft., when the vector moved to 1-deg. down to provide for a flare. Touchdown was smooth and Rebourg took over and stopped the aircraft in less than 1,400 ft. The Rafale is equipped with an anti-skid system, but not auto-brakes.

Rebourg said the French air force pilots flying from the back seat also had complained about the monochromatic view provided through the HUD, and Dassault was going to switch to liquid crystal display provided by a television camera in later aircraft.

I taxied the Rafale back to the ramp, and found placing the fighter on the exact spot asked for by the crew chief not a difficult task. Total fuel used during the 1.2 hr. flight was 9,600 lb. I found that the performance of the Rafale matched my expectations, even in its heavy configuration. While this is a smaller and lighter aircraft than the Boeing F/A-18F I flew last summer, its performance during the low level and some of its maneuvers closely reminded me of the Super Hornet. Situational awareness was approached differently in the design and size of the displays in both aircraft, but the result is that both aircraft bring that capability to the pilot. Overall, I found that the throttle placement, the side-stick controller, the Rafale's worry-free flight control system and engines made for a very enjoyable flight.

Much of the electronic package going into the Rafale for operational use is still in development. However, the Thomson-CSF electronically scanning RBE2 radar has been installed in the first production two-seater for the French air force. The expected capability of the multifunction radar also was shown in the Rafale simulator at Le Bourget. As an example of its flexibility, a ground target can be designated as a target and tracked, while the Rafale engages airborne targets, Camus said.

Camus sees the Rafale using multiple sensors on a typical combat mission. The first task would be the compilation of all the intelligence data into the mission planning system to be shown in the aircraft's large center display. The next sequence would be for recent data link information from other aircraft or AWACS to be fed into the tactical display. Thomson is working on a data link system for the Rafale that is very similar to the Multifunction Information Distribution System (MIDS), and can either be used as a stand-alone system or used with NATO equipment.

Still staying passive, the Rafale's Spectre Defensive Aid Sub-System (DASS) electronic system designed by Thomson and Matra would be able to pick up enemy radars in excess of 200 naut. mi. and give locationand identification. The Spectre also offers laser and IR missile launch detector, as well as digital solid-state jammer.

The next system likely to be used in a combat flight would be the Front Sector Optronics System, which features a wide angle IR sensor and a long-focal-length CCD camera. Both of these displays were shown to me in the simulator. The IR detection has the longer range and also identification capability. Once a target is picked up by the IR system, the camera is slaved along the same axis and the target is shown on the display. Identification of a target from the camera display is more accurate than IR, Camus said.

At this point in an engagement, the pilot could then activate the radar to get a firing envelope for the Rafale's air-to-air, medium-range Mica EM missiles. The Mica IR beyond-visual-range missile is still in development. The Dassault simulator was equipped with a large screen visual system showing both ground features and opposing aircraft. The RBE2 radar, or data-link information, showed eight hostile aircraft on the cockpit tactical display. The RBE2 radar will show up to 40 targets, and prioritizes eight targets as the "first to kill" and then will fire at four simultaneously with the radar-to-missiles data links working with the search and track-while-scan radar mode. The air-to-ground mode of the radar is still in development.

Another feature to be offered to customers of the export Rafale is voice activation. The Sextant system has been flying on a Dassault/Dornier Alpha Jet for two years and was demonstrated in the simulator by Dailloux. Right now, the Sextant voice activation system has a 250-word vocabulary, and a working group is still defining what messages to use. However, if the end result is anything close to the demonstration, almost everything in the Rafale can be accomplished by voice, except for the "fire" command for weapons and other specific instructions. Included in the demonstration commands were radio frequency changes, radar range changes, call-up of pages on the displays as well as altitude, pitch angle and heading changes. A visual target can be created in the display by giving relative speeds and positions. While the voice activation system is being developed for the export market, it could be ordered by the French services at a later date.

There are some 61 Rafales on contract. Three are test aircraft, 10 of the first-production are Rafale Ms for the French navy. Of the remaining 48, another 15 are for the navy, 21 are two-seater Rafale Bs and 12 are single-seaters for the air force. The 48 are to be delivered in 2004 in the Block F2 configuration, which includes the data link computer, data fusion, Spectre, IRST, the Mica IR missile and radar terrain-following. The F3 standard for 2006 will include the helmet-mounted display system and nuclear strike and reconnaissance mission capabilities.

The Rafale in its present configuration offers operators an excellent air-to-air combat capability and limited visual attack usage. When it reaches its full combat configuration around 2005, it will be one of the most formidable operational multi-mission aircraft in the sky.

© July 5, 1999 The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.

[USAM]

Read it agian i said tech that is equal to Rafale has not been give to Su 30MKI. = means equal to.

[Winged_Trident]

k let it be....and what made u even think tat, if at all French was not giving the tech ......India wud have settled for their oldies for a huge price rather than for going in for other manufactures queng up to supply...???

.and probably U know that the intergration and the non-timely supply and development of the components of non-russian origin was what casued the MKI project to lag for 2-3 yrs....

[Winged_Trident]

So coming to the radar the RBE-2 its a AESA radar .... if the links tat some has posted is correct , which till then i believed was a slotted one ..... well its good to see an AESA outside the USAF (well not to mention the Foreign Office London) ... the AESA coz of its multi-frequency makes it a good in ECM reisitance, gives it a LPI , multi-tasking , a sppedy scan and refreshing rate etc etc ..... and these all gives out the radar with a 40 target detection with 8 simultaneous tracking and 4 simultaneous firing ....... but then the range is limited to nearly 100Km and thats coz of it being having a small antenna so as to fit into the small nose cone of the Rafale and not surprisingly the refuelling probe has been pushed out (takinh a litttle beauty out of the a/c) to make space for the radar unit .........

..... now many have a notion abt the AESA radars range coz of the F-22's APG-77AESA ..... the APG-77 has nearly 350 Km range similar to the MKI's N0011M Bars ...... but the fact that all forget or does not know is that F-22's radar is a combination of PESA and AESA .....with the long range detection provided by the PESA and the AESA meant to keep the F-22's stealth intact (but then the RPG-77's stealth is valid only upto EMCON-2 MODE - which means only upto first level, anything above tat make it any other fighter radar giving itself out) and still be able to keep its screen filled with detection but at a significantly lower ranges, but to employ its weapons and to lock on to its target the raptor has to come out of its stealth due to the radar emission (and of coz of oponents radar/ IRST) ..... and due to this combination, its a very costly affair due to which only Raptor has been given this combo .... and the F-16/18/15 and JSF featuring only the AESA's .....

Where as the MKI has its PESA with a range of 350Km which have capblities such as multi-frequency, multi-tasking, LPI, etc etc ... which again is robust aganst ECM which again can be effectively and extensively enhanced with usage of external ECM pods .... the MKI's radar is an electronic steered one and the additional mechanical steering is given to make its coverage to more than 100 degrees in both direction from the nornal ..... the MKI like the F-22 don have to wory abt the Stealth coz the radar has been (as per the Russian doctrine) made to burn through any active stealth (but which also gives out the position as well) and so do the MKI carry any no of external pods .... and also with its powerful radar taking out anyone's position in the sky which is again complimented by its IRST .... well this same IRST ... which is known as passive tracking was something whcih was rediculed by the west when the Russian's countered the NATO's (US) claims of intruding into Soviet air-space w/o their knowing or intercepting by saying that their fighters were indeed tracking them passively....... but then the table has turned and now realising the true capablity of this passive tracking - which has been a standard on the MiG-29's and Su-27's - allmost all a/c of western origin is featuring this now and those which don have (F-16/18/15, Grippen etc) will be introducing these in the future ...

... k back to the AESA, the AESA has its inherent weakness that its modules cannot transmit high enery making its ranging short and that will show u in the ranges of the F-15's of nealry 220+ Km (note that its a bigger unit than what Rafale or the other F-series use) with the JSF to be in the range of F-16 Blk 60's which is likely to remain in the same range as their earlier radars but with an enhanced capablity which will be more robust in its performance in the form of multi-tasking, LPI (now this won't -will?- ever come to use coz USAF or USN has never made use of their individual a/c /radar/avionics performance in scoring and has always been banking on the AWACS for their performance), ECM resistance etc .....

Bur the Rafales or M2k's with the French AF with a nearly 100 Km radar is good coz they are bound to be operated in conjenction with AWACS as per their doctrine , where as the PAF as of now don have any such luxuary ..... and surely the early detection of PAF a/c by the MKI will indeed be a fatal blow coz what it will do is send the MiG-21's or MiG-29's completely in their stealth mode - mean radar and everything off , to the PAF's F-16 or Mirages or if the Rafels be there, against Rafale ... and what this will do is take the PAF's a/c down ..... like how the MiG-29's have been taken out in air-combat by the American's or which is called a dissimilar fight ..... coz if at all the PAF a/c are equipped with RWR they will get only the MKI's radar nearly 300Km away or let it be even a mere 200 Km away (am quoting a 200Km for the RWR on the basis of the MiG-29's RWR capablity) ... but then while u track this source so far ..... some MiG's might be closing in on U w/o ur knowledge and will take u down with its R-77 w/o u knowing what really happened or to have more pleasure, come in to WVR but at ur "Blind Spot" and have the pleasure of releasing either a R-60MK or R-73M1/2 .... again this will also be a totally unaware thing unless u r nearly or actually hit ...

.... but then even if MiG's come in ur field view there will be little time for an appropriate reaction coz its wud just be all of a sudden ....... even in a WVR combat u'll be closing in for a WVR with ur full knowledge of an existing opponent and not like what ur opponent's sudden appear in ur view when he is supported by AWACS or mini-AWACS aka MKI .........and this constitue a very disimilar fight which has become a norm of modern warfare. where only score counts, be it shattering ur opponent or in marketing ur military wares based on the counts .......

.... k so if the Rafale be there, it will be able to detect the intruders by its FLIR & IRST ..... at the said range of nearly 80 Km's .... but then thats the same case with the a/c closing in on - say MiG-29 - with their old IRST which have a range of 20Km for non-after burning target from the front and 6-8 times the range for an after-burning target and is in addition to supported by the AWACS .... and if supose the MiG's close and Rafales get them with their IRST , then comes the firing range and here ur weapons is all that matter inaddition to where ur in BVR or WVR .... as of now the BVR engagement rage is fully tilted in favour of Russian missiles (well it depends upon U to consider whether these are good or not citing idiotic reasons that it has no combat records, but then atlest those for whom these opponents really matters have taken it seriously) ....... k here the max the West have deployed in BVR has nearly 40+ Km range which means that a optimum firing range wud be within say 30Km if the target is non manovering ..... and for the R-77 which has a range of 100 Km head on for a non-manoverable target, lets take its firing range ddown further to just 60 or 55 Kms, even then the balance tilt heavily to the Russian missile by a good margin with the opponent now in the defensive rather than on offensive .........

[USAM]

I don't have time to read that all you analysis no matter how much you try RAFALE MK II will kick ass of IAF. And where did you get bullshit range of 100 KM for AESA radar of RAFALE MKII. Even RDY 2 have more range then that and RBE 1 is being replaced because it have short range then RBE 2 so i don't believe you argument that its range is 100KM. Su 30MKI can no way in hell detect RAFALE at 325 Km or even 200 KM is doutful but Su 30MKI have the big radar sign and less sophiscated ECM ECCM then RAFALE MK II.



RAFALE MK II 8cool)

[rafale]

I don't have time to read that all you analysis no matter how much you try RAFALE MK II will kick ass of IAF. And where did you get bullshit range of 100 KM for AESA radar of RAFALE MKII. Even RDY 2 have more range then that and RBE 1 is being replaced because it have short range then RBE 2 so i don't believe you argument that its range is 100KM. Su 30MKI can no way in hell detect RAFALE at 325 Km or even 200 KM is doutful but Su 30MKI have the big radar sign and less sophiscated ECM ECCM then RAFALE MK II.



RAFALE MK II 8cool)

very true usam and how will it fire mertor missil with huundred km missiil having range of100 it has more range of radar and some stelth features not like f-22 but 1000 timmes more thhen su-30 our jf-17 has 100km range and u think that refale willl also oh my god

[thunderinaction]

Which completely shows that Rafale is the best option.Can anyone tell me that how can I put a scanned article on the forum bcoz I have Lt.Gen.(Retd)Talat Hussain saying that Pakistan has been offered Rafale.

[Oqaab]

Which completely shows that Rafale is the best option.Can anyone tell me that how can I put a scanned article on the forum bcoz I have Lt.Gen.(Retd)Talat Hussain saying that Pakistan has been offered Rafale.

The article is from which Magzine ????

[h177]

Su-30 will not even face newer M2k let alone Rafale. R-77 is range is not that much Russian tend to inflate the ranges of their missles. I have read that SD-10 has 80 Km range which is a bit more than R-77 thats why chinese are not buying R-77 in huge number. And that 350KM radar range for Su-30 is for some larger aircraft for fighter size target it is some where in region of 120 to 150Km. just like any other 4 th generation aircraft. Even AWACS have detection range of 350KM against fighter size aircraft so how can Su-30 meet this.
Secondaly french are offering upgraded M2K with newer M53PX engine check this engine site http://www.snecma-moteurs.com.
How can Su-30 meet M2K in any dog fight when its newer missle MICA has the same Imaging infrared seeker like IRIS-T or AIM-9X, Has over Mach 4 speed (Note Medium range missles tend to have more speed than shorter range)against Mach 3 of Archer. Greater offbore sight than Archer, Greater Acquisition range than even R-77 or Archer(Acquisition ranges are mostly classified and it is way shorter than Missle range).
Su-30 has almost twice the radar signature of M2k and is bigger in size for WVR combat. Sure Su-30 is a little more agile than M2K but it cannot escape MICA no matter in which angle it is. Also 8 M2K can be datalinked just as UAE got it. so one Mirage can guide the other 7 for passive attack.

http://www.mbda.net/...=EN&noeu_id=124
The MICA replaces the two types of air-to-air missile currently fitted on fighter aircraft by a unique multi-mission system. The MICA (Missile d'Interception, de Combat et d'Autodéfense - Dogfight/Self-Defence/Interception Missile) is the first multi-target multi-mission air-to-air missile capable of interception missions beyond visual range and close up dogfight combat.

It is multi-target since it is fully autonomous after firing so that the pilot can engage several targets simultaneously, in close up fighting or in self-defence from all directions, while maintaining maximum efficiency within an electronic warfare environment and with saturation jamming. These elements give it a very good cost/efficiency ratio compared with existing specialised missiles.

Another advantage of MICA's innovative concept is its flexibility to be guided by an active radar electromagnetic homing head (MICA RF) or by an infrared imagery homing head (MICA IR). The IR homing head is unique for a missile with this range, and its many features include an excellent angular resolution (dual band imagery) and total stealth: the passive homing head enables absolutely "silent" interceptions when it is used with an OSF (Front Sector Optronics). The pilot can also use the MICA IR for discrete optronics monitoring, in addition to the active monitoring radar on his aircraft throughout the mission duration.

MICA's homing system makes it both independent and versatile. When the target has been designated by the launching aircraft radar, it makes its first flight phase in inertial guidance, possibly refreshed, and then latches onto the target in flight using its homing head. Thus it has a "Fire and Forget" capability, so that the pilot can fire several missiles simultaneously on different targets. With two available homing head versions RF and IR, the pilot can handle all eventualities. Each of the two types of homing head has its own counter-countermeasures system.


MICA has excellent manoeuvrability, confirmed in more than 100 test firings carried out so far. A jet deviation system combined with aerodynamic control surfaces and its long fin provides MICA with exceptional agility (load factors up to 50 kg).
Lightweight and compact, MICA was originally designed as a "multi-aircraft" missile that could easily be integrated onto any modern fighter aircraft. It does not significantly reduce the aircraft speed or its aerodynamic characteristics; a significant number may be carried under the fuselage or under the wings, and it may be fired by ejection or by rail.

[thunderinaction]

The article is from which Magzine ????

It was a special edition on JF-17.How can I put it on the forum??

[pegasus]

" Even AWACS have detection range of 350KM against fighter size aircraft so how can Su-30 meet this."

Again your underestimating the MKI radar. Yes it can Scan at a 350 KM range hence the radar is called a 'mimi-AWACS' and can act as a director or command post for other aircraft, with target coordinates being automatically transferred to at least four other aircraft.



The MKIs N011M radar is a version of a the N014 Radar that went into the Prototype Mig1.42 Fighter. As of now it stands with the best in the world This is not Fantasy. IT has been acknoledged by Most people in the world. Including the USAF when they ran simulations against the MKI with the F-15s. FAS.org and ACIG also aknoledge this.

There is a reason why the Russians say its the best Fighter out of Russia ever. It is a enhanced Hybrid of the Su-35 and Su-37 superflankers AND THERE IS A REASON IT IS CALLED AN AIR DOMINANCE FIGHTER by Janes.

"like any other 4 th generation aircraft"


There is no way you can Call the MKI just another 4th generation Fightr.. IT is close to a 5th generation Figher in alot of its Characteristics. i.e. Radar performance in both the A-A role , A-G role AND The Mini-AWAC role. Extremely long range, 3D TVC.

[h177]

Americans always overestimate Russian technology to justify their own expensive programs in Congress. MKI is not close to 5 the generation, IT does not have Stealth, SuperCruise, Internal bays, JHMS, AESA. Its thrust vectored engines require overhauling after 250hrs. Its TWR is close to 105 not in same class as RAFALE or EUROFIGHTER. The most powerful RADAR in Russian inventory electronic Scan A-50E can hardly detect fighter size target at 350 Km. Russian datalinks are not good as Swedes Gripen or French M2K. Su-30 is just oversized white elephant with high maintenance cost and low operational readines thats the Chinese are building them in bulk. I bet it will not with stand Gripens armed with IRIS-T and AMRAAM or M2K9 with MICA IIR. The French and Swedes are the best in Avionics and Aerospace technology. Look no further than Airbus and Eurocopter.




Here from Aviation Week and Space Technology.
The standard Russian-built A-50 is a ``far-less capable AWACS than the Chinese would have had'' if purchase of an Israeli-developed Phalcon system had been completed. The current Russian AWACS is ``early 1980s technology at best,'' said a U.S. radar company official. ``It's large and bulky,'' has established a reputation for low reliability and involves old transmitter/receiver technology. U.S. Air Force officials warn that even a first-generation AWACS can be a threat to older U.S. aircraft like the nonstealthy B-1 or B-52, and the size of the radar could make it more effective than the E-2 flown by Taiwan's air force.

However, the Russians are offering the A-50E, a derivative of the standard A-50 mainstay that carries a radar developed by the Moscow-based ``NII Priborostroenie'' scientific and research institute. The performance attributed to the system by Russian sources includes the ability to detect cruise missiles against ground or sea clutter at a range of up to 250 mi. The radar is expected to take three years for production, tests and integration into the aircraft.

U.S. Air Force analysts are more skeptical of the Russian aircraft's performance.

``The A-50E [will be] less capable than the Israeli-modified A-50I,'' said a U.S. official. ``The A-50E will have a search range [for aircraft] of approximately 125 naut. mi. and the capability to track up to 50 targets

[pegasus]

"Americans always overestimate Russian technology to justify their own expensive programs in Congress. MKI is not close to 5 the generation, IT does not have Stealth, SuperCruise, Internal bays, JHMS, AESA."

I have already stated THOSE FACTS. ITS A NEAR 5th GENERATION FIGHTER
. AND AESA doesnt offer advabntage over the radar of the MKI. The only advantage of AESA is that it can allow you to Track and Scan an enemy without being Noticed.


Provide me a link that says that the Russian AWAC can hardly detect a FIGHTER size target at 350Klicks. ?? Yes it is inferior to a PHALCON but by how much? AMericans are at the same time good salesmen when it comes to their weaponry. the most powerful Combat radar developed by the Russians was the N014 Phaztron.


" Su-30 is just oversized white elephant with high maintenance cost and low operational readines thats the Chinese are building them in bulk. I bet it will not with stand Gripens armed with IRIS-T and AMRAAM or M2K9 with MICA IIR. The French and Swedes are the best in Avionics and Aerospace technology. Look no further than Airbus and Eurocopter""

Please get over the superiority of the WEst. IT is far from being a white Elephant.

[USAM]

SU 30MKI is not white elephant and neither it is close to 5th gernation.



Look at the cockpit of that thing and radar sign. RAFALE and Typhoon come close to F 22 and their EW suites are very advance. It is almost true what he said about that even some AWACs get fighter size target at 350KM let alone track it. Even Russian AWACs cannot detect fighter size target flying low or even above. AESA have long range then the Su 30MKI radar. AESA RAFALE MKII is more then a match for Su 30MKI. Su 30MKI have good radar but its EW suite is not as good as Typhoon, RAFALE and may be Mirage 2009. More relasitc figure for fighter size target would be about 120-180KM. Tracking range from 120KM to 150KM. Rafale have many advatanges over Su 30MKI.

[h177]

I have access to database on Aviation Week and Space technology. So link cannot be provided. In articles it is repeadetely mentioned that Su-30MKI is 4th generation aircraft just like M2K and Gripen but with higher maintenance cost and low operational readiness than the above. unlike Rafale and EF-2000 which are 4+. Don't believe on figures provided by Russian it is ofthe misleading.

here is some thing about M2k9 and its datalinks.

The Emirates already had Mirage 2000 carrying out air defence, attack and reconnaissance missions. They were fitted with the most advanced version of the radar RDM having ground and maritime mobile echoes search modes, a bad weather penetration mode and a strategic recognition option.
The dash 9 standard is the ultimate variant of the Mirage 2000. It is a Mirage 2000-5 extrapolation fitted with the most modern avionics systems.

It is equipped with Radar Doppler RDY2 from Thal่s having look down/shoot down capacity. Its air detection range is 15% superior than the RDY one (twice the RDM range). It was possible to decrease the radar LRU’s volume thanks to new electronic components. This space saving made possible to move back the antenna and to increase its size, rising its detection range
The Mirage 2000-9 also has an integrated Counter Measures system ICMS Mk3 from Thal่s. It is able to detect, identify, locate with a high degree of accuracy, jam and deceive the main air-to-air and ground-to-air threats. This ICMS Mk3 could also collect electronic information (Electronic Intelligence), analyse each threat in real time and locate it geographically. Moreover, replacing goniometric detection by interferometry, the Mirage 2000-9 acquired identical capacities than the defence-suppression aircrafts.

The cockpit is "full glass" including an Head-Up display VEH3020 from Thal่s (giving flight parameters…), an Head-Level display (providing radar and laser designation data), an Head-Down display (showing tactical situation) and two lateral displays (providing electronic warfare data, armament and aircraft systems status). On Mirage 2000-9, the screens are larger than on Mirage 2000-5, improving display quality facilitating tactical situation understanding of the pilot
Mirage 2000-9 has radio-communication means: one V/UHF TRT ERA 7000 and one VHF SCP 5000 for normal communication, one transmitter receiver Have quick II type SATURN for secure communication and one tactical data transmission system. Eight planes can be connected on the same network and exchange information coming from their detection sensors (Radar, ICMS...). It is also fitted with several radio-navigation systems produced by Thal่s. They are connected to autopilot system: a VOR/ILS receiver Socrat 8900, a TACAN transmitter receiver Deltac and a radio-altimeter AHV17. It is also equipped with a gyro laser platform Totem 3000 from Sextant Avionique with a GPS receiver embedded allowing a very precise and self-contained navigation. The interrogation friend and foe (IFF) is ensured by a transponder SC10/IDEE from Thal่s. Mirage 2000-9 also has the EMTI (Ensemble Modulaire de Traitement de l’Information) including mission computer and symbols generator. Its exceptional computing power allows a very fast processing of the data coming from the sensors (RDY2, IMCS...).

[h177]

Dassault Aviation has delivered the first five Mirage 2000-9s to Abu Dhabi as the most recent move in modernization of the United Arab Emirates Air Force.

The UAE will receive 32 aircraft, 12 two-place variants and 20 single-seaters. The new aircraft (designated in France as the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2) will join a fleet of about 60 Mirage 5 and Mirage 2000 reconnaissance, attack and air defense variants already operated by the force. Dassault will refit 30 of the Mirage 2000s to 2000-9 standards to produce a single common fleet of 62 Mirage 20009s. They will operate along with the most advanced F-16 yet designed, the UAE-unique Block 60 variant. The UAE will not release information about the Mirage 2000-9's capability, but it is thought to be roughly that of the 2000-5.

This newest member of Dassault's Mirage 2000-5 family is being produced alongside the Mirage 2000 and Rafale. The three aircraft lines are being fed by the aggressive infusion of new technology. Dassault invests 24% of its resources into research and development and encourages cross-fertilization between its civil and military operations, said Yves Robins, vice president of international relations for defense programs.

Company officials say the close association with the military and military efforts softens the impact of business cycles since one side is always up when the other is down. Moreover, to share the development burden, Dassault has partnered with Thales for avionics and Snecma for engines, seats and landing gear.

At the heart of the new Mirage 2000-5 design is the advanced, mechanically scanned Thales RDY-2 radar, Robins said. Its main feature is a multi-shot, multi-target capability that encompasses air-to-air, air-to-ground and air-to-sea capabilities. The radar will track 24 targets and prioritize the eight most dangerous. Four can be engaged simultaneously. The RDY-2 also has ground-moving target indica-tor and tracking modes.

An interesting feature of the radar system is that now an opponent will not know he has been targeted. As a result of lessons learned in previous conflicts, there is no radar pattern or waveform change when the new Mirage locks on or fires at a target. "He doesn't know if, who, what, when you shot," Robins said. A data link is included for mid-course updates of missiles in flight.

Another key feature is the 2000-5's modular data-processing unit that is common with Dassault's Rafale fighter. Made up of commercial off-the-shelf components, it holds 16 boards, each with 50 times the computing power of the earlier Mirage 2000 computer, Robins said. Current systems use about half that capability leaving the other 50% for growth, he said. As a swing-role aircraft, it is configured on the ground for either air-to-air (quick-reaction or combat air patrol) or air-to-ground (deep-strike, close-air-support interdiction or air defense suppression) missions.

The new aircraft is designed to carry the whole family of Mica missiles which can be fitted with electromagnetic (active radar or homing/jam-following) or infrared (passive IIR) seekers. The normal load-out is six missiles under the fuselage--typically four EM and two IR weapons. With six missiles, the aircraft has a patrol endurance of 2 hr. 10 min. Both weapons can be used in a beyond-visual-range mode at maximum ranges of about 38 mi., said a U.S. analyst. The capability will set the stage for an adaptation to the aircraft of a future long-range air-to-air missile. The Meteor program is expected to offer a missile with a high probability of kill when pursuing a target maneuvering at 9g at a range of up to 50 naut. mi.

In all, the Mirage 2000-5 offers nine hard points, three of them wet, to carry fuel tanks for increased range. The takeoff weight of the aircraft is 17.5 tons; that could include, for example, eight 500lb. Mk.82 gravity bombs, two fuel tanks and two infrared Mica air-to-air missiles.

Also in the mix of weapons and fuel, the aircraft has a strategic capability with carriage of the Storm Shadow/Scalp EG standoff cruise missile which employs the design's secure communications, data link and integrated multimission electronic warfare system. The UAE is receiving a specific derivative of the Scalp EG missile--known as the Black Shaheen--which has a range of about 250 naut. mi. The maximum engagement range of the Scalp EG version entering service with the British and French air forces is approximately 400 naut. mi. The aircraft has an automatic terrain-following capability to increase survivability.

THE MIRAGE 2000-5 can carry the GBU-12 unpowered laser-guided bomb, Damocles 3-5 micron (for good performance in humid and hot weather) infrared targeting pod, and two fuel tanks (1,700 liters) for close air support missions. Target lasing can be done from the aircraft dropping the bomb, another aircraft or from the ground. Future weapons are to include the AASM, a powered JDAM-type weapon with up to a 50-km. (30-mi.) standoff range and GPS/INS guidance touted at a 10-meter accuracy.

For ease of pilot comprehension, the cockpit offers four 4 X 5-in. liquid crystal displays and a head-up display. A full-color tactical display has sensor data superimposed on a moving map. A backup compass and altimeter are the only analog instruments on board. The company also boasts more than a million flight hours on the fly-by-wire control system with no aircraft losses due to its failure in flight.

Other reliability figures offered by Dassault include 100% availability for 23 Mirage 2000C/Ds operated in support of the Kosovo air campaign and 97% availability for eight Mirage 2000Ds operated over Afghanistan where missions averaged 6-7 hr.

AS A FUTURE POTENTIAL customer, Brazil is being offered a modified Mirage 20005 Mk.2--the Mirage 2000 BR--to be built as a cooperative project with Embraer. The aircraft is to provide yet another layer to Brazil's Amazon patrol and early-warning network which already operates an Embraer AWACS and the Super Tucano light-attack aircraft. If adopted, the initial order would be for 12 aircraft, applied as the first phase of meeting a 100-aircraft requirement for the Brazilian air force. Assembly of the aircraft would be incrementally transferred to Embraer's production facilities at Gaviao Peixoto. Embraer will also hold exclusive rights to selling the Mirage 2000 BR in Latin America.

[h177]

Some thing about Costs.These 1999 figure. Current prices are lower because development has already been completed on Greek and UAE M2Ks

According to UAE sources close to the deal, the Mirage buy includes:

-- A fleet of 30 Dassault Aviation Mirage 2000-9 fighters, plus the retrofit of 33 Mirage 2000 SAD8s now in service to the 2000-9 standard, worth $3.2 billion.

-- Thomson-CSF RDY multifunction radar equipped with upgraded air-to-ground software, along with electronic warfare countermeasures suites and other equipment worth up to $2 billion.

-- Matra BAe Dynamics Mica medium-range air-to-air missiles, either the existing RF or the new infrared-guided version now in development, valued at around $700 million.

-- Matra BAe Dynamics Black Shahin stand-off missiles, derived from the Scalp/Storm Shadow being developed for France and the U.K. This part of the deal, which is not yet final, is expected to be worth $1.3 billion.

French and British defense officials decided only recently to authorize export of the Black Shahin. The GEC-developed Hakim had initially been considered the weapon of choice for this UAE application.

[h177]

From the above figures it is reasonable to assume that complete cost of M2K9 comes close to $100 Million per plane. But since it is specifically modified plane and has much more Air to ground capabilities like using JDAMS, BLACK SHAHINE etc. which Pakistan cannot afford of dropping over India. So the best estimate is around $60Million for Pak M2K armed with MICAs and ordinary LGBs. Which will give us around 40-50 planes for $2.5 Billion.

[h177]

Many of the sophisticated features of the Su-30MKI were to be derived from another advanced Su-27 variant, the multirole "Su-27M", designed by a team under Nikolai Nikitin of the Sukhoi OKB beginning in the early 1980s. The idea was to build a multirole fighter that could excel as an interceptor, an air-superiority fighter, and a strike aircraft.

This was demanding, particularly because in many cases aircraft designed for multiple roles aren't necessarily excellent at any one of them. The Su-27M needed to carry avionics for air combat, strike navigation, and guidance of laser or TV guided smart munitions. It was also to be fitted with canards, and "wet" tailfins for additional fuel. This meant an increase in empty weight and a corresponding degradation in performance. The Sukhoi OKB felt the weight increase could be dealt with though improved "AL-31FM" or "AL-35" engines, and through reductions in weight using composite materials and lithium-aluminum alloys.

The Su-27M has proven to be not so much a particular variant of Su-27 as a series of increasingly refined prototypes. The first in this series flew in June 1988, and apparently was little different from a standard Su-27 except for addition of a refueling probe derived from the Su-27P, plus a new "glass cockpit". It was followed by more prototypes, adding features such as twin-wheel nose gear, and a new wing with eight stores pylons.

In 1992, one of these Su-27Ms was publicly flown at the Farnborough Air Show in the UK, and OKB chief Mikhail Simonov claimed it would be production by 1995. Apparently, other Sukhoi OKB officials present at this announcement went pale, and in fact the type has yet to enter production.

One of the problems is that, given the chaotic state of the post-Soviet industrial system, developing the avionics for an operational Su-27M has been extremely troublesome. Originally, the aircraft was to be fitted with an advanced NIIP "N-011" multimode radar, but this development program has been a moving target. The latest implementation of the N-011 has been stated to have a range of up to 160 kilometers (100 miles), the capability to track 20 targets at once, and engage six of those targets at once.

NIIP's rival Phazatron has responded with the "Zhuk-27" radar, or the similar "Zhuk-PH" with a phased-array antenna. The Zhuk-PH is stated to have a slightly longer range and wider scan angle than the N-011, the capability to track 24 targets at once, and engage eight of them simultaneously. NIIP, not to be outdone, has proposed a new radar of their own that not only has multimode capability, but can track aerial and ground targets at the same time.

One of the other incremental improvements of the Su-27M was a new and bigger tail stinger, intended to house an "N-012" rearward-facing radar, with a range of up to 50 kilometers (31 miles). The N-012 would cue rearward-firing AAMs, a concept which has been flight-tested by the Sukhoi OKB. The Su-27M is also to have a comprehensive EW suite for offense and defense, but the status of this effort is uncertain.

To no great surprise, Sukhoi marketing redesignated the Su-27M to "Su-35", but equally to no surprise, the Russian Air Force still calls it an Su-27M. In April 1996, the Sukhoi OKB flew yet another advanced prototype, calling it an "Su-37", though it is likely that to the VVS it's just another Su-27M.

However, the Su-37 does have a major new feature with its "AL-37FU" engines. These new engines offer more power than the traditional AL-31 engines, with 14,500 kilograms (32,000 pounds) afterburning thrust each, but more significantly they are fitted with thrust-vectoring exhaust nozzles that move in the vertical plane. The AL-37FU is said to be interchangeable with the older AL-31, and interestingly the nozzles are actuated by pressurized fuel, not hydraulic fluid, possibly as a means of providing some fuel preheat.

The Su-37 also features an advanced glass cockpit, with three multifunction displays, a sidestick controller, and a nonmoving, pressure-sensitive throttle. The Su-37 flew at Farnborough in September 1996 and performed maneuvers that dazzled the crowd. However, the cash-poor Russian military has yet to buy production quantities of any such advanced Su-27 variant.

it is clear that detection range of Su-30MKI is somewhere in the range of 150Km to 180KM even that figure one have to take with grain of salt

[akwafresh]

correct me if i'm wrong here, Su-30MKI's French components consist of couple of French LCDs, a laser gyro and GPS guidance system thats it right?

[h177]

The HUD and FLAT panel displays are made by THALES for MKI. and maybe some navigation equipment.
The key thing of M2K9 is the RDY-2 RADAR and ECCM suite. who has more than twice the range of older RDM and 15% more than RDY and the MICA missle. French has done smart thing by combinning the IIR seeker of short range missle like IRIS-T or AIM-9X with the speed of Medium range missle. So greater off bore sight capability is provided with greater speed unlike slower speed of short range missles. Thale JHMS is also provided which is bit more than ordinary HMS.

[thunderinaction]

Again your underestimating the MKI radar. Yes it can Scan at a 350 KM range hence the radar is called a 'mimi-AWACS' and can act as a director or command post for other aircraft, with target coordinates being automatically transferred to at least four other aircraft.

Oh my GOD! This is a mini awacs.Wonder why it has a small nose??NO RADAR HAS THAT RANGE! IF ANYONE HAS THEN WHAT'S THE USE OF AWACS???

I have already stated THOSE FACTS. ITS A NEAR 5th GENERATION FIGHTER
. AND AESA doesnt offer advabntage over the radar of the MKI. The only advantage of AESA is that it can allow you to Track and Scan an enemy without being Noticed.

Is it stealth that it can track enemy without being detected?? Simply :megalol :megalol :megalol .Every countermeasure system gives a warning when you are being locked!

[akwafresh]

I have already stated THOSE FACTS. ITS A NEAR 5th GENERATION FIGHTER
. AND AESA doesnt offer advabntage over the radar of the MKI. The only advantage of AESA is that it can allow you to Track and Scan an enemy without being Noticed.

a phased array is nothing like an AESA, AESAs are much more reliable its pure electric(no mechanical parts), it offers true simultanouse air and ground mode, harder to jam, the list just goes on and on. why do you think the russkies are trying to develop an Aesa? a good radar is not all about range, hell in that case the old J-8II radar is pretty good then and F-14's radar should be king!

it's lacking every requirement for a 5th gen fighter, no stealth, no supercomputer

Again your underestimating the MKI radar. Yes it can Scan at a 350 KM range hence the radar is called a 'mimi-AWACS' and can act as a director or command post for other aircraft, with target coordinates being automatically transferred to at least four other aircraft.

a bit exaggerated, more like 250km

Bars is a strange radar, fight sized target at 250km, destroyers at 120-150km.... odd

[Gs_0629]

I have already stated THOSE FACTS. ITS A NEAR 5th GENERATION FIGHTER
. AND AESA doesnt offer advabntage over the radar of the MKI. The only advantage of AESA is that it can allow you to Track and Scan an enemy without being Noticed.

a phased array is nothing like an AESA, AESAs are much more reliable its pure electric(no mechanical parts), it offers true simultanouse air and ground mode, harder to jam, the list just goes on and on. why do you think the russkies are trying to develop an Aesa? a good radar is not all about range, hell in that case the old J-8II radar is pretty good then and F-14's radar should be king!

it's lacking every requirement for a 5th gen fighter, no stealth, no supercomputer


a bit exaggerated, more like 250km

Bars is a strange radar, fight sized target at 250km, destroyers at 120-150km.... odd

Provide a link that says the range is only 250.

Heres a site with detailed into on Mki's radar.
http://vayu-sena.tri...fo-su30mki.html

The forward facing Phazotron NO11M Bars is a powerful integrated radar sighting system. The N011M is a digital multi-mode dual frequency band radar (X and L Band, NATO D and I). Antenna diameter is 1m, antenna gain 36dB, the main sidelobe level is -25dB, average sideobe level is -48dB, beamwidth is 2.4 deg with 12 distinct beam shapes. The antenna weighs 100kg.

The N011M radar has been under flight testing since 1993, fitted to Su-27M (Su-35) prototype '712'. It employs the same level of technology as the now abandoned N014 radar which was to have equipped Mikoyan's MFI "fifth-generation" fighter and was initiated by Tamerlan Bekirbayev. The nose of the Su-30MKI was modified (compared the Su-27) to accommodate the fixed antenna array and more avionics boxes.

Note that the N011 is different from the N011M: the N011 is mechanical scanning while the later is features a phased array antenna and is much more capable.

The N011M can function both in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneusly while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial / GPS navigation system. It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features. The aircraft has an opto-electronic surveillance and targeting system which consists of a IR direction finder, laser rangefinder and helmet mounted sight system. The HMS allows the pilot to turn his head in a 90º field of view, lock on to a target and launch the much-feared R-73RDM2 missile.


In preliminary long range aiming, the targets (co-ordinates of which enter the navigation system) are locked on automatically, and the onboard locator is disengaged. The aircraft flies radio silent to the targets, and at a range close to the maximum one required for launching the weapons, the threat updating aids are engaged and the weapon is fired. In doing so, the attack time is minimal and the low-observable target approach increases the success of a mission greatly. The Su-30MKI can be fitted with an imaging IR navigation and attack equipment pod to provide night attacks against small-size ground targets.

For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a 200 km tracking range. The radar can track and engage 20 air targets and engage the 8 most threatening targets simultaneously. The forward hemisphere is ±90º in azimuth and ±55º in elevation. These targets can include cruise/ballistic missiles and even motionless helicopters. A MiG-21 for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140-160km. A Bars' earlier variant, fitted with a five-kilowatt transmitter, proved to be capable of acquiring Su-27 fighters at a range of over 330 km. In comparison, the advanced Kopyo radar found in the latest MiG-21UPG can detect small drone targets at a range of 50 km. It can withstand up to 5 percent transceiver loss without significant degredation in performance. Additionally the Su-30MKI can function as a 'mimi-AWACS' and can act as a director or command post for other aircraft. The target co-ordinates can be transferred automatically to atleast 4 other aircraft. This feature was first seen in the MiG-31 Foxhound, which is equipped with a Zaslon radar.

Russian designers have stated that they believe that the key to dogfight supremacy rests in the pilot's ability to engage the enemy in any position relative to their own aircraft. While TVC permits post-stall maneuvering and pointing which are impossible in conventional aircraft, they are convinced that a rearward facing radar and missiles that can be fired in the aft-quadrant all join to make an unbeatable integrated weapons system.

Ground surveillance modes include mapping (with Doppler beam sharpening), search & track of moving targets, synthetic aperture radar and terrain avoidance. To penetrate enemy defenses, the aircraft can fly at low altitudes using the terrain following and obstacle avoidance feature. It enables the pilot to independently find his position without help from external sources (satellite navigation, etc.); detect ground targets and their AD systems; choose the best approach route to a target with continuous updates fed to the aircraft navigation systems; and provide onboard systems and armament with targeting data.

According to Sukhoi EDB the Su-30MKI is capable of performing all tactical tasks of the Su-24 Fencer deep interdiction tactical bomber and the Su-27 Flanker A/B/C air superiority fighter while having around twice the combat range and atleast 2.5 times the combat effectiveness.

The N011M offers a quantum leap in technology over the earlier Russian radars. For example, the MiG-29, Su-27 and other fighters can be provided with a ground strike capability only if their radars can operate in the down-looking mode which generates a map of ground surface on a cockpit display (this mode is called the mapping mode). Small ground targets, like tanks, can be detected out to 40-50 km.

N011M ensures a 20 m resolution detection of large sea targets at a distance up to 400 km, and of small size ones - at a distance of 120 km. Coupled with the air-launched Brahmos-A AShM, the Su-30MKI will become an unchallanged platform for Anti-Ship duties. The Brahmos is a result of a joint collaboration between India and Russia and is a variant of the Yakhont AShM (which has not entered service).

The Su-30MKI also has a NO12 rearward facing radar which is housed at the end of the center section spine or sting and alerts a pilot to the approach of an enemy aircraft on his tail. This radar has a range of 50km for a 3 sqm RCS target and 100 km for large ones. It features a surveillance area of ±60º in azimuth and elevation. It enables the pilot to fire the R-73RDM2 missile without turning to get a positive lock on the enemy aircraft. The missile will be launched as usual and will then flip 180º to intercept the aircraft.

[h177]

This kind of links regarding Russian technology are unreliable. I have seen on FAS and Global security site the fighter detection range of A-50E where it was claimed more than 800km but as you see from my above posts according to USAF it is hardly over 200Km from AW&ST.
Any body who claimed that MKI "fighter detection range" is 350KM. They should provide evidence from JDW or AW&ST.

[thunderinaction]

And even if they provide the link then whats the fun of AWACS.

[Vaiar]

Flexibility....

[h177]

AWACS is mostly command and control purpose. One AWACS can control and direct around 100 aircraft. But i don't think that India airforce will use 100 aircraft for a single attack. M2K can do 8 aircrafts. AWACS will be a poor choice for Pakistan because that investment can be better use for upgrading the other aircrafts of the Airforce.
That SAAB Gripen tied with SAAB ERIEYE is good and a little cheaper althernative.

[BruteBhangee]

India is negotiatin to buy one of the varients and France is planning to m outsource Mirage parts from India

[h177]

Then that MIRAGE will be not Mirage it will become low quality Indian product.

[h177]

http://arms.host.sk/aircraft/a50.htm
A-50 is able to track 60 and guide 12 targets in 220 km range. Data can be transferred to friendly aircrafts or command points in 400 km range using radiostation

[thunderinaction]

Is Mirage 2000-9 really capable to fight SU-30.

[h177]

It is more than enough. Its MICA imaging infrared seeker and Mach 4.5 speed is unmatched. R-77 is just a crap even Chinese have only bought 100 for 300 flankers and are waiting for SD-10. It was a good fighter but with new compact mulit mode radars and new generation of BVr missles it longer has any advantage.

[thunderinaction]

R-77 stinks and Indians are proud of it???What losers

[USAM]

I am not sure about field performance but Mirage 2009 avonics and EU suite is more advance.

[Himanshu]

R-77 stinks and Indians are proud of it???What losers

Sorry dude.. but even the SD-10 uses the SAME seeker that the R-77 uses..

[h177]

Flight profile of SD-10 and R-77 is different . Speed is different . Multi engagement abiltiy is different.

[R64]

Edited Out..........

Edited by R64, 26 November 2003 - 08:05 AM.