411 replies to this topic

[Metanoia]

I know about the Safavids, you're right and I am not disputing that. I was specifically talking about the Hashashins only, i.e. they weren't an outside force. Hashashins existed in Alamut since 1080's whilst Safavids came in 1500's. 

 

While Safavids were aiding Mongols....Hashashins were fighting them and in the process they got wiped out.

 

Savafids were the main beneficiary of Mongol invasion. Savafids attacked the Ottomans when the Ghazis were in the suburbs of Vienna well. On the record, Henry said "If it was not the Savafids attacking the Ottomans from the east, we would be reading Quran today". 300 years ago Iran was a majority sunni country, After Savafids took over Iran. They force majority to convert to Shiaism.

Nowhere in the Muslim World any country has declared "Sunni" as a state religion, but Iran has declared Shiaism as State religion.

Sunnis are not even allowed to built a Masjid in Terhan.

[butterfly]

This is now becoming a fight between ISIS (Sunni ) vs Shia. Iran has sent commanders to organise the Shias in major cities like Baghdad. Now the Israelis and Americans will be happy as they can weaken both sides without firing a single shot. How stupid are Muslims?

[Felicius]

Nowhere in the Muslim World any country has declared "Sunni" as a state religion, but Iran has declared Shiaism as State religion.

Sunnis are not even allowed to built a Masjid in Terhan.

 

 

 

Iran has done what the Western world is doing today, perhaps they don't want the same chaos in their country, perhaps they are just bigots, I don't know why they are doing it. However, they are doing it in their country and not trying to stir the pot in other countries. Arab countries have been attempting to stir the pot everywhere including Pakistan.

 

We can't base our alliances on basis of mosques or religious freedom, but rather what/who benefits us.

 

Saudis don't allow Hanafi mosques and they don't have a reason either, why they too have religious intolerance. But our alliance with them is for different reasons, nothing to do with sect either.

[PS:Annonymous]

Metanoia

From What I have read, Timur burn the Al-Mout in Syria. Defeated the Crusaders as well and took back Syria. This is where the phrase "Old man of the mountain or the young man of the battle field. No one stands the horde of khan" comes from.

Halaqu khan had alliance with the crusaders, As a matter of fact, one of his wife was christian and took communion with catholic church.

Hashishan decedents exists even today. They call them self "Ismalis or Aga khanis". They are also call them self shia.

I am not taking sides here. I am just pointing what has happened in the history.

Iran may have good intentions now but there is a history of mistrust.

As far as the American invading Iraq. I think, American will let Iran get involved and bleed. It is too risky for Americans and Israelis to give Iran open hand in middle east. If Iran get open hand in Iraq then Hizbollah will have a field day in Israel. America will rather let itself occupied by Marsians than let Israel suffer even little bit or lets say, Israel let American drown in Atlantic than suffer herself in the middle east.

This is a complicated game thus it will be played in very complex manners.

Iran steps in it and then watch how the Israelis and everyone else will be providing just enough support to keep the both side bleeding eachother until it is good enough for Americans to walk in and declare them self the freer of the world.

[PS:Annonymous]

There is a real chance that #### might go Global from here on out. I mean, think about it. Ukraine aint far from Iraq, nor is Afghanistan. Americans are involved in all three places and then some.

Nepolian said, it is always the pin pricks who start the wars. We saw, it took four men to trigger the world war 1.

Maybe the powers want to create such a great chaos in Asia that people even fear the name war ever again as it happened in Europe.

Never underestimate the human race ability to destroy each other.

Just imagine, The ancient hatred and modern weaponry. What a combination!!!

[Metanoia]

After the assassination attempt....it was Helugu Khan who was entrusted the responsibility to bring down Alamut; which he eventually accomplished in 1256.

 

Also bro Alamut is in Iran and not in Syria.

 

Meanwhile Timur entered Syria in the early 1400's....first Aleppo and then Damascus.

 

Metanoia

From What I have read, Timur burn the Al-Mout in Syria. Defeated the Crusaders as well and took back Syria. This is where the phrase "Old man of the mountain or the young man of the battle field. No one stands the horde of khan" comes from.

Halaqu khan had alliance with the crusaders, As a matter of fact, one of his wife was christian and took communion with catholic church.

Hashishan decedents exists even today. They call them self "Ismalis or Aga khanis". They are also call them self shia.

I am not taking sides here. I am just pointing what has happened in the history.

[PS:Annonymous]

Yes you are right. Its been long time since i heave read all that and need to refresh my memories. I think confused Almut with Nassariya mountains in Syria. It was also the place where Hashishin dwell.

"The Assassins were eradicated by the Mongol Empire during the well-documented invasion of Khwarizm. They probably dispatched their assassins to kill Möngke Khan. Thus, a decree was handed over to the Mongol commander Kitbuqa who began to assault several Hashashin fortresses in 1253 before Hulagu's advance in 1256. The Mongols besieged Alamut on December 15, 1256. The Assassins recaptured and held Alamut for a few months in 1275, but they were crushed and their political power was lost forever."

"During the mid-12th century the Assassins captured or acquired several fortresses in the Nusayriyah Mountain Range in coastal Syria, including Masyaf, Rusafa, al-Kahf, al-Qadmus, Khawabi, Sarmin, Quliya, Ulayqa, Maniqa, Abu Qubays and Jabal al-Summaq. For the most part, the Assassins maintained full control over these fortresses until 1270–73 when the Mamluk sultan Baibars annexed them. Most were dismantled afterwards, while those at Masyaf and Ulayqa were later rebuilt.[16] From then on, the Ismailis maintained limited autonomy over those former strongholds as loyal subjects of the Mamluks."

From Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins

Halaqu didnt eliminate them

[Felicius]

http://www.dawn.com/...divisions-obama

 

 

US will help but Iraq must mend divisions: Obama

By AFP

 

President Barack Obama finishes his statement on his administration's response to a growing insurgency foothold in Iraq. -AP Photo

 

WASHINGTON: US President Barack Obama said Friday that he is examining options short of sending ground troops to help Iraq counter a Sunni extremist offensive, but warned the country must heal its own divisions.

 

“We will not be sending US troops back into combat in Iraq, but I have asked my national security team to prepare a range of other options that could help support Iraqi security forces,” Obama said.

 

Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's government has asked the United States to provide military assistance to counter a stunning advance by ISIL, a Sunni extremist movement.

 

But, in brief remarks to reporters at the White House, Obama warned the Baghdad government that it had brought disaster on itself by failing to heal the divides between Sunni and Shia camps in the country.

 

“The United States will not involve itself in military action in the absence of a political plan by the Iraqis that gives us some assurance that they're prepared to work together,” he said.

 

“We won't allow ourselves to be dragged back into a situation in which while we're there we're keeping a lid on things and, after enormous sacrifices by us, as soon as we're not there, suddenly people end up acting in ways that are not conducive to the long-term stability of the country.“

 

The United States withdrew the last of its occupation forces from Iraq in 2011, eight years after they overthrew the then dictator Saddam Hussein, but Obama sad he was studying options to increase ongoing support for the Iraqi military.

 

He added, however, that “any action that we may take to provide assistance to Iraqi security forces has to be joined by a serious and sincere effort by Iraq's leaders to set aside sectarian differences.

 

“Nobody has an interest in seeing terrorists gain a foothold inside of Iraq and nobody is going to benefit from seeing Iraq descend into chaos,” he said.

 

“So the United States will do our part, but understand that ultimately it's up to the Iraqis as a sovereign nation to solve their problems.“

[Metanoia]

Yes bro you're right, Helugu didn't eradicate them. But he did destroy their citadel....

 

Anyways it is a very interesting chapter in our history. But alas the Abbasids fell gradually from then on and so did the Golden Age started to decline.

 

And so the reign of Mongols began.

 

 

Yes you are right. Its been long time since i heave read all that and need to refresh my memories. I think confused Almut with Nassariya mountains in Syria. It was also the place where Hashishin dwell.

"The Assassins were eradicated by the Mongol Empire during the well-documented invasion of Khwarizm. They probably dispatched their assassins to kill Möngke Khan. Thus, a decree was handed over to the Mongol commander Kitbuqa who began to assault several Hashashin fortresses in 1253 before Hulagu's advance in 1256. The Mongols besieged Alamut on December 15, 1256. The Assassins recaptured and held Alamut for a few months in 1275, but they were crushed and their political power was lost forever."

"During the mid-12th century the Assassins captured or acquired several fortresses in the Nusayriyah Mountain Range in coastal Syria, including Masyaf, Rusafa, al-Kahf, al-Qadmus, Khawabi, Sarmin, Quliya, Ulayqa, Maniqa, Abu Qubays and Jabal al-Summaq. For the most part, the Assassins maintained full control over these fortresses until 1270–73 when the Mamluk sultan Baibars annexed them. Most were dismantled afterwards, while those at Masyaf and Ulayqa were later rebuilt.[16] From then on, the Ismailis maintained limited autonomy over those former strongholds as loyal subjects of the Mamluks."

From Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins

Halaqu didnt eliminate them

[Skull-Buster]

ISIS will end up biting off more than it can chew. ISIS's current fighting force in Iraq consists of a couple thousand fighters, and Shia clerics across Iraq are preparing Shia militias to combat ISIS. Shias make up 65% of Iraqi population, and the Kurds who make up another 17% are siding with the Shia government. 

 

ISIS will not be able to withstand a combined assault by Shia and Kurd militias. They will end up running back across the border to Syria, but will leave the Sunni population vulnerable to revenge attacks at the hands of Shia militias.

[PS:Annonymous]

What Obama has said is only seen as wise words to Iraqi PM. Who has ran the country in authoritarian style. He is glorified version of Nawaz Sharif. Nawaz likes to keep things in family and Nouri Al Maliki likes to keep it himself only.


ISIS would have never been so successful, had Nouri treated his people right. But I guess, self serving A##### like him never learn.

Skull is right, ISIS stands no real chance when fighting the Majority shia and that too supported by Iran and Americans. This is just lots of hot air.

What ISIS might benefit from is, they get their hands on lots of weapons to use in Syria

[cheif No 1]

ISIS will end up biting off more than it can chew. ISIS's current fighting force in Iraq consists of a couple thousand fighters, and Shia clerics across Iraq are preparing Shia militias to combat ISIS. Shias make up 65% of Iraqi population, and the Kurds who make up another 17% are siding with the Shia government. 

 

ISIS will not be able to withstand a combined assault by Shia and Kurd militias. They will end up running back across the border to Syria, but will leave the Sunni population vulnerable to revenge attacks at the hands of Shia militias.

 

 

One who fights for survival pay more attention and put an elaborate fight unlike those who are tyrants. 30K Iraqi Soldiers alone in Ramadi threw their weapons and uniforms and ran away. Now i am getting why Saddam was able to put his iron leash on south Iraqis.

[PS:Annonymous]

ERBIL, Iraq — After Islamic extremists swarmed his city this week, Saad Hussein fled here with his wife and six children. But after one night, he was on his way back home to Mosul, hearing that things were quiet there.

“What can we do?” said Mr. Hussein, at a checkpoint on the road from Erbil to Mosul. “You have to depend on your God.”

Another man stood nearby, his two small sons tugging at his belt. He had left Mosul and was waiting to enter Erbil, about 50 miles to the east. “We don’t know what will happen in the future,” said the man, Ahmed Ali, 31. “The government is not there. It’s empty.”

As many as 500,000 Iraqis fled Mosul this week after the city was besieged by the extremist group Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, many of them Sunnis who seemed less fearful of the beheadings and summary justice that the group is known for than of their own government and the barrage it might unleash in an effort to take the city back.
Continue reading the main story
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Kurdish forces patrolled near Mosul, Iraq, on Thursday, to prevent further infiltration of Islamic militants. Kurdish forces also took control of Kirkuk on Thursday.
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“I don’t rule out anything,” President Obama said of Iraq, speaking Thursday in the Oval Office.
U.S. Scrambles to Help Iraq Fight Off Militants as Baghdad Is ThreatenedJUNE 12, 2014

That many Sunnis would prefer to take their chances under a militant group so violent it was thrown out of Al Qaeda sharply illustrates how difficult it will be for the Iraqi government to reassert control. Any aggressive effort by Baghdad to retake the city could reinforce the Iraqi Army’s reputation as an occupying force, rather than a guarantor of security.
Photo
Iraqis fled Mosul this week after a siege by Islamic extremists, with a large number taking refuge in Erbil. Credit Onur Coban/Anadolu Agency, via Getty Images

Many of those who fled said they were terrified of possible airstrikes and indiscriminate shelling that they have seen, in news reports, against insurgents in Sunni-dominated Anbar Province, which has been out of government control for more than six months. Some, saying a rumor had been swirling through the local population, even worried that the Americans would be back to bomb their city. And most said the militants in Mosul had not terrorized the population and were keeping a low profile, with a small number of men in black masks staffing checkpoints.

“We are afraid it will be the same situation as in Falluja and Ramadi,” said a municipal worker who gave his name only as Abu Mohammed, for fear of losing his job. He was referring to the two cities in Anbar that have borne the brunt of government airstrikes, which have killed hundreds of civilians.

A woman nearby, asked if the militants were harming people, waved her hands in the air and said: “No, no, no. On the contrary, they are welcoming the people.”

Comments like these represent a stark repudiation at the grass-roots level of the governing style of Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, a Shiite, and his policies that over the years have alienated the Sunni population.

“Maliki wants to end the Sunnis,” said Ahmed Hussain, a police officer in Mosul who abandoned his post after seeing the army leave. “Can you tell me how many Shiites are arrested on terror charges? Almost all those in prison are Sunnis. He is targeting us. I want to go back to Mosul, but we are afraid we’ll see another Falluja.”

Each security sweep that rounds up innocent Sunni men in the name of fighting terrorism has deepened resentment in the Sunni population toward the government, especially the Shiite-dominated army.
Continue reading the main story

“They are not the Iraqi Army; they are the militia of Maliki,” said Abu Mohammed, 49. He also complained about corruption, which is endemic in the army and the police.
Continue reading the main story Video
Play Video|1:35
Mosul Residents Flee as Unrest Spreads
Mosul Residents Flee as Unrest Spreads

Thousands of Mosul residents continued to flee the violence in Iraq’s second-largest city after Al Qaeda-inspired militants seized the area.

Credit Associated Press

“If anyone gets into prison, he has to pay to get out,” he said. And there were smaller indignities, he said, such as when soldiers would demand money for allowing people to park on city streets.

As the militants advanced on the city this week, Iraqi Army soldiers quickly laid down their guns and fled, and many citizens were happy to see them go. “The Iraqi Army was tough on the people, not on ISIS,” said Abu Mohammed, referring to the extremist group.

The events over the last several days in Mosul — which is majority Sunni, although it has a sizable population of Kurds and some Shiites, too — highlight what critics have said for years: that Sunnis see the army not as a national force but as the protector of the Shiite population. A Western diplomat, in a recent interview, said that in places such as Mosul and Anbar Province, the security forces are regarded as “a foreign force in their own country.”

But residents of Mosul say that so far the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria has handled the local population with a light touch. Some residents, hardened by their hatred of the army, spoke of the insurgents almost as if they were a liberating army. The militants, residents said, greet people at checkpoints and ask citizens if they are carrying a weapon, and if the answer is no, they let them on their way.

Many spoke of being able to move around the city more freely for the first time in years, after the militants unblocked roads that the army had shut down for security reasons and took down the blast walls that had become a permanent feature of nearly every major Iraqi city over the last decade.

“So far, the militants have not harmed any civilians, and they have freed the city from the checkpoints that choke us,” said Ammar Saleh, 32, who works in a hospital in Mosul. Still, he added: “I can’t trust that the gunmen are better than the army. I will leave my family here until things are quiet.”

And the militants’ cordiality toward the local population may not last long. A leaflet, said to be produced by Islamic State of Iraq and Syria and distributed Thursday in Mosul, detailed a long list of coming rules, including the forbidding of alcohol and cigarettes, and requiring women to “stay home and not go out unless necessary.” The leaflet also said that anyone who worked for the government would be killed unless they sought “repentance.”

http://www.nytimes.c...-city.html?_r=0

[Metanoia]

Just spare 5-10 minutes and read the comments on this news; we'll find out a lot about the overall current state of muslims.

 

http://www.aljazeera...5518278210.html

[clutch]

 
US AND Iran like brothers they are, will 'try' to defend Baghdad, together; a complete contrast of the drama 'Iran will wipe out Israel'
 
No theory since the dawn of mankind can prove that only 5,000-8,000 ISIS militants took over half of the Iraq in few hours
 
If any person says its only ISIS who did it alone, they are simply liars and you Muslims are simply fools for accepting it once again (unfortunately most will believe the same old version of terrorists taking over).
 
It is the Muslims (sunni) who have given complete support to ISIS to take over; rather than their sons and daughters being kidnapped by shia militias, shia army and shia security forces since 2003 ... being raped in group sessions, being raped in front of their parents, being mocked, being humiliated, being sidelined from any economic, political or military major platforms, being labelled as terrorists for simply asking for justice in the post Saddam Iraq and handed over to US black sites as ... sheeps
 
Don't believe me; help your self with the latest from "CNN" itself: http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_c1
 
For 3 years Muslims in Syria were massacred and USA, Nato and that poodle France didn't move an inch; and for Iraq and to protect OIL and investments within few hours we see pledges from USA, France and Iran to protect the "Baghdad" (for the dummies, US has different meanings for protecting Baghdad and Iran has different; but finally both have been cooperating like true brothers since 2001 and this brother will get stronger with every minute as we enter the near future)
 
The Muslims will only understand the meaning and blessing of being Muslims when they are ruled by tyrant Kuffar and Munafiqeen; the sunnis of Iraq after Saddam for the first time felt it, realized it and had a reality check; and now given the situation it doesn't seem they will back off
 
And the rest of the Ummah, well they will wake up only when this fire will reach their own homes
 
And haba haba ... the british and french installed middle east 'SkyesPicot' border is no more and is vanishing; today the Iraq and syria do not exist as a 'nation state' any more. No more borders between Iraq and Syria (again for the dummies: http://en.wikipedia....icot_Agreement)
 
And now suddenly the low life Al sistani is asking shia civilians/militias to wage jihad; where was your Jihad in 2003 to protect Iraq??? 
 
And sorry, Salam to my Muslim brothers and sisters on the forum

Pak eye... u miss the the whole rise of the khawarrij fithna... these taliban/tpp/alqaeeda/isis are the dogs of hell.. sure I agree with ure analysis of the shia... but we miss one major point ... we now live in an age of fithna and senseless killing... the period just prior to dejaal... where everyone partaking in "jihaad" is in the wrong... this is the period where one disassociate themselves from all the violence. .. Because every group is in the wrong!... but the saudi sponsored terrorists and the shia iran.

[Hulegu]

 

 

And now suddenly the low life Al sistani is asking shia civilians/militias to wage jihad; where was your Jihad in 2003 to protect Iraq??? 

 

This is what Sistani said-

 

"Citizens who are able to bear arms and fight terrorists, defending their country and their people and their holy places, should volunteer and join the security forces to achieve this holy purpose,"

 

I see no mention of Shia. As a matter of fact majority of Sunnis in Baghdad have already joined local forces to defend their neighborhoods.  This was an address to all abled body Iraqis- shias, sunnis, christians, kurds, turkmen, etc... Some at the comfort of their computers and western countries might hallucinate and see the whole thing from a sectarian perspectives but for those whose wellbeing, the izzat of their female family members, and wellbeing of children matter ISIS is a terrorist group and terrorize people whereever they go- Syria is the biggest example where Sunnis are the biggest victims of these terrorists and these terrorists robbed thousands of sunni girls from their dignity. Dont think its a terrorist organization? Does anyone know anything about them? agenda? finance? intelligence? etc etc

 

More Kurds (sunnis) are against ISIS than Arab sunnis for ISIS. Hence it aint sectarian but pure evil terrorism.

[Hulegu]

In Syria too terrorists were welcomed as liberators till they showed their true colors through beheadings, stoning, destruction of religious places, robbing, kidnapping, organ eating etc etc etc

[Metanoia]

ISIS has already distributed pamphlets amongst their captured areas detailing the new laws which are to come.

 

1) Cigarettes are haram and anyone caught smoking will be punished.

 

2) Woman should only go out when "necessary".....strict directives to stay home. 

 

3) All government employees should quit their jobs and repent or they will be killed.

 

These are just few from the top of my head.

[Felicius]

They will redraw the map of Iraq.

[Metanoia]

The Kurds will definitely strive for an independent state and therefore an immense pressure will befall on their shoulders due to all the oil on their territory.

 

When the Iraqi army ran back leaving Kirkuk, it were the Kurds who stepped up and took back the area and the oil fields with it. Now almost the entire Kurdish region is being run completely by Kurds.

[Felicius]

Kurds wanted independence from the very beginning, long before Gulf War 1.

I am saying that the World Powers will redraw the map of Iraq, with the blessing of the GCC.

[Felicius]

This is what Sistani said-

 

"Citizens who are able to bear arms and fight terrorists, defending their country and their people and their holy places, should volunteer and join the security forces to achieve this holy purpose,"

 

 

It will create chaos in Iraq; they will start to disagree with each other, distrust, and eventually form their own factions.

That is what another Sistani had said before the Syrian offensive, and even the Afghan offensive - there are Sistanis all over.

[cheif No 1]

Where was Sistani when American Invaded Iraq??

[Hulegu]

Thats a different topic. I was merely pointing out that your statement where he called on shias was inaccurate

 

ISIS has already distributed pamphlets amongst their captured areas detailing the new laws which are to come.

 

1) Cigarettes are haram and anyone caught smoking will be punished.

 

2) Woman should only go out when "necessary".....strict directives to stay home. 

 

3) All government employees should quit their jobs and repent or they will be killed.

 

These are just few from the top of my head.

 

at a time when Iraq needs reconstruction and the world is progressing these guys are worried about smoking or what women should wear.... whats more unfortunate is that such stupidity is lost amids squabbles of sect.

.

[Hulegu]

 

 

It will create chaos in Iraq; they will start to disagree with each other, distrust, and eventually form their own factions.

That is what another Sistani had said before the Syrian offensive, and even the Afghan offensive - there are Sistanis all over.

 

Whats more chaotic than ISIS taking over somewhere given Syria as an example?

[PS:Annonymous]

Considering how Nour al maliki has failed to treat all the Iraqi citizens as equal. The only logical outcome left here is to redraw the Iraq border along sectarian and ethnic lines. A sad and painful out come due to the ignorance of Authoritarian regime in Baghdad.

Or if American some convince The Iraqi government to get rid of Maliki and bring someone who is willing to treat everyone in iraq as Iraqi citizens. (Very unlikely to happen)

[Hulegu]

I doubt the Iraqi map would get redrawn. Terrorists will loose like they do everywhere because they have no program, no platform, no vision, or anything else. They only know how to wreak evil. Not to mention countries like Russia, China, and Iran have little tolerance for terrorism given the brilliant economic opportunities in their region.

[Hulegu]

The notion that tags these terrorists as sectarian heroes does not hold much water in light of their sister organizations elsewhere. In Pakistan for example, the Taliban terrorists are not fighting with the same slogans for Sunni rights for majority of Pakistan is already Sunnis. The same goes for Somalia, Mali, Lybia or elsewhere where they are active. 

 

The attack on Karachi airport was not inspired because the Taliban wanted to liberate the Sunnis. They, like the ISIS, are terrorists and thats what they do- terrorize people.

[PS:Annonymous]

Hulegu

 

All the good vs evil talk aside. ISIS may or may not succeed in their ambitions, but there will be another rising and another rising by someone. Because they way Iraq is being run by the Mailiki government. That man does not share power. He favors shias and thats all. ISIS or Shias, two faces of same page. they impose their ideas, and philosophies on others,

 

Would you deny that Iran does want to convert everyone in to Shiaism by hook or crook? Hell this is the desire of every shia to convert everyone into their ideology including you.

 

Why cant you just learn to live and let live. Why everyone has to dress in black and self mutilate or listen to those never ending mujlises, send money to some hidden imam, we dont even know was even born or maybe someday some alien will step out of a disk and Ayetoolah will call him the chosen one?

[PS:Annonymous]

By Eric Margolis

June 14, 2014

 

 

The late Saddam Hussein was certainly right when he predicted that America’s invasion of Iraq would become “the Mother of All Battles.” Eleven years later, it continues.

This week saw the collapse of two divisions of Iraq’s government army, a full 30,000 men running like chickens before the relentless advance of the fighters of ISIS – the Islamic State of Iraq and Shams(Syria). The same puppet army trained and equipped for a decade by the US at a cost of $14 billion. An evil portent of what awaits Afghanistan’s US-led  army and police.

Remember when President George W. Bush boasted, “mission accomplished?” Was not the wicked Saddam Hussein lynched by US Shia allies? Wasn’t the dreaded al-Qaida defeated and its leader, Osama bin Laden, assassinated? Remember all that crowing from Washington about “draining the swamp” in Iraq?

As soon as the US knocks down one challenger to its domination of the Mideast – which I call the American Raj -  another rises up. The latest: ISIS, a fierce jihadist force that now controls large parts of Syria and Iraq.

ISIS is a combination of Sunni jihadist groups fighting the Shia-backed Damascus government of Bashar Assad (a US enemy backed by Shia Iran), and resurgent units of Saddam’s old Ba’athist army, led by Izzat Ibrahin al-Douri, the last surviving member of Saddam’s inner circle, and a handful of al-Qaida in Iraq.

They are battling to overthrow the US-installed Shia regime in Baghdad of Nuri al-Maliki, an Iranian ally. There are suspicions ISIS may be secretly financed by Sunni Saudi Arabia, a US ally.

Wait a minute.  My enemy’s enemy is my friend, as the old Mideast saying goes. The US is trying to overthrow Syria’s secular government to undermine its ally, Iran. The US has been  using brutal jihadist groups against the Assad regime in Damascus. But now these jihadists in Syria have mostly fallen under the sway of ISIS – which is chewing up the US-backed regime in Baghdad. Confusing, is it not? My enemy’s enemy has become my friend’s enemy.

The 2003 invasion of Iraq, the stupidest war in US history, which was rousingly backed by Congress and the media, has produced a monumental mess of mind-numbing complexity as Washington trips over its own feet. The ladies advising President Barack Obama on his Mideast policy are hopelessly befuddled.

Washington, now in a major panic over ISIS, is moving towards air strikes against Iran using warplanes based in Kuwait and the Gulf. The US also has two full mechanized combat brigades in Kuwait. Republicans are calling for US ground forces to re-enter Iraq to shore up the widely detested Maliki regime.

While Washington dithers, its little Kurdish protectorate in northern Iraq is threatening to send its combat-effective ‘pesh merga’ fighters to battle ISIS. But this is making both Turkey, which opposes any Kurdish state, and Iran, with its own Kurdish problem, very uneasy. Iraq used to be part of the Ottoman Empire. Its vast oil reserves are a constant enticement to energy-deprived Turkey.

This awful mess can be directly traced to neoconservative strategists in Washington clustered around Vice President Dick Cheney. In 2002, their primary goal, according to Cheney, was to wreck Iraq, the most industrially advanced and progressive Arab state, so removing a major foe of Israel, and then grabbing Iraq’s oil.

Following the time-tested Roman imperial formula of ‘divide et impera’(divide and rule), Washington played Iraq’s long downtrodden Shia against its Sunni minority, igniting a wider Sunni-Shia conflict in the Arab world, notably in Syria.

In fact, Israel emerged as the sole strategic victor of the Bush/Cheney war against Iraq. That war, so far, has cost the US 4,500 soldiers killed, 35,700 wounded, 45,000 sick and over $1 trillion. Iraq lies in ruins, likely shattered beyond all attempts to put it back together. No senior American or British official has faced trial for this disastrous, trumped-up war.

Nuri Maliki has totally excluded Sunnis from power in Iraq, and uses brutal secret police and torture to repress them. Small wonder he faces a major uprising. Iraq’s oil-based economy remains in ruins. Many Iraqis believe their now wretched nation was far better off under Saddam Hussein, as brutal and clumsy as he was.

Interestingly, efforts by ISIS to forge an Islamic state in a merged Syria and Iraq is one of the first major challenges to the foul Sykes-Picot agreement of 1916 under which the British and French Empires secretly colluded to divide up the moribund Ottoman Empire’s Mideast domains. Today’s artificial Mideast borders were drawn by the Anglo-French imperialists to impose their rule on the region. Iraq and Syria were the most egregious examples.

ISIS appears set on erasing the British-French borders and re-creating the unified Ottoman province (Turkish: vilyat) of Syria, Lebanon and Iraq. In the West, the neocon-dominated commentariat calls ISIS terrorists. In the Mideast, many see them as anti-colonial fighters struggling to reunite the Arab world sundered and splintered by the western powers. The western powers are now preparing to strike back.

 

 

http://www.lewrockwe...sein-was-right/

[Metanoia]

Hulegu

 

All the good vs evil talk aside. ISIS may or may not succeed in their ambitions, but there will be another rising and another rising by someone. Because they way Iraq is being run by the Mailiki government. That man does not share power. He favors shias and thats all. ISIS or Shias, two faces of same page. they impose their ideas, and philosophies on others,

 

Would you deny that Iran does want to convert everyone in to Shiaism by hook or crook? Hell this is the desire of every shia to convert everyone into their ideology including you.

 

Why cant you just learn to live and let live. Why everyone has to dress in black and self mutilate or listen to those never ending mujlises, send money to some hidden imam, we dont even know was even born or maybe someday some alien will step out of a disk and Ayetoolah will call him the chosen one?

 

 

Well said. 

 

ISIL wouldn't have made such tremendous gains had the Iraqi government not alienated more than 30% of the population....plus according to the reports the security forces prefered fleeing in order to defend "their own" rather than defending "the others". 

 

However considering the current intellect and overall outlook of Arabs and other muslims, I can assure anyone a 100% that this vicious cycle of vengeance and hatred will continue way past our lifetimes. A muslim will continue to blame "foreign hand" and starbucks whilst the biggest foe will remain within.

[Metanoia]

Iraq crisis: US orders aircraft carrier to Gulf, Iran offers help

 

This image posted on a militant website on Saturday, June 14, 2014, which has been verified and is consistent with other AP reporting appears to show militants from the al-Qaida-inspired Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) with captured Iraqi soldiers wearing plain clothes after taking over a base in Tikrit, Iraq. - AP

 

 

The United States ordered an aircraft carrier into the Gulf Saturday over the Iraq crisis, where Sunni Arab jihadists have seized a swathe of the country, as Shia Iran said it would consider helping foe Washington should it take action.

 

The order came as Iraqi commanders that soldiers had recaptured two towns north of Baghdad, and thousands of volunteers answered a call to arms from top Shia cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.

 

US President Barack Obama said he was “looking at all the options” to halt the offensive that has brought Sunni Arab militants within 50 miles (80 kilometres) of Baghdad's city limits, but ruled out any return of US combat troops.

 

“We will not be sending US troops back into combat in Iraq, but I have asked my national security team to prepare a range of other options that could help support Iraqi security forces,” he said.

 

Pentagon spokesman Rear Admiral John Kirby said Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel had ordered aircraft carrier USS George H.W. Bush into the Gulf in response to the crisis.

 

Obama has been under mounting fire from his Republican opponents over the swift collapse of Iraq's security forces, which Washington spent billions of dollars training and equipping before pulling out its own troops in 2011.

 

 

Maliki given 'unlimited powers'

 

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani, who since taking office last August has overseen a rapprochement with a superpower Tehran long derided as the “Great Satan”, said his government was prepared to consider offering help.

 

“If we see that the United States takes action against terrorist groups in Iraq, then one can think about it,” Rouhani told a news conference.

 

Iraq's Shia premier Nuri al-Maliki said the cabinet had granted him “unlimited powers” to reverse the offensive, in which militants swept towards Baghdad after overrunning second city Mosul on Tuesday -- before losing some steam.

 

Troops found the burned bodies of 12 policemen as they recaptured the town of Ishaqi in Salaheddin province from the insurgents, a police colonel and a doctor said.

 

It was one of the closest points to Baghdad militants reached as they overran a large part of northern and north-central Iraq.

 

Troops also retook the nearby Muatassam area of Salaheddin, the colonel said.

 

Late Friday, police and residents expelled militants from another town in the province, Dhuluiyah, witnesses said.

 

Security forces have also held fast in the Muqdadiyah area of Diyala province, preventing militants from taking the town in heavy fighting, police said.

 

In the besieged city of Samarra, north of the capital, reinforcements were awaiting orders to launch a counter-offensive against areas north of the city, including Dur and Tikrit, seized by militants earlier this week, an army colonel said.

 

Maliki visited Samarra Friday to rally troops and pray at the Al-Askari Shiite shrine, a revered site whose 2006 bombing by Al-Qaeda sparked a sectarian conflict that killed tens of thousands.

 

North of Baghdad, gunmen attacked a convoy carrying the head of Iraq's anti-corruption watchdog, killing nine police, and a convoy carrying the deputy head of the Shiite religious endowment was also targeted, killing eight guards.

 

 

Starting to regain ground

 

Security forces have generally performed poorly, with some abandoning their vehicles and positions and discarding their uniforms, though they seem to have begun to recover from the initial onslaught and have started to regain ground.

 

They will be joined by a flood of volunteers, urged on by Sistani's call Friday for Iraqis to join up to defend the country.

 

A representative of Sistani, who is adored by Shiites but rarely appears in public, made the call on his behalf from the shrine city of Karbala, south of Baghdad.

 

A Qatar-based union of Sunni Muslim clerics on Saturday denounced the call, saying developments in Iraq were a “result of oppression and exclusion of people that wanted freedom”.

 

Obama said while the US was willing to help, Iraq needed to heal the deep divide between the Shiite-led government and the Sunni Arab minority, whose resentment jihadists have exploited.

 

Washington “will not involve itself in military action in the absence of a political plan by the Iraqis that gives us some assurance that they're prepared to work together,” Obama said.

 

“Any action that we may take to provide assistance to Iraqi security forces has to be joined by a serious and sincere effort by Iraq's leaders to set aside sectarian differences. “State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf dismissed Republican lawmakers' criticism that a residual US force would have prevented the Iraqi army's collapse.

 

“When we left Iraq, after years of sacrifice and American taxpayer money, and certainly our troops felt that sacrifice more than anyone, the Iraqis had an opportunity,” Harf told reporters.

 

Instead, Iraqi leaders “created a climate where there were vulnerabilities when it came to the cohesion of the Iraqi army,” she said.

 

Former British prime minister Tony Blair, meanwhile, hit out at critics who linked the 2003 invasion of Iraq with the current violence in the country, blaming instead the West's failure to act in Syria.

 

Blair, who took Britain into the US-led war to remove Saddam Hussein and is now a diplomatic envoy in the Middle East, also criticised the sectarianism of the government in Baghdad.

 

In a long article published on his website, Blair said arguments that there would be no crisis in the region if the Iraqi dictator had remained in power were “bizarre”.

 

He condemned the sectarianism of Maliki's government, who he said had “snuffed out what was a genuine opportunity to build a cohesive Iraq”.

[Hulegu]

Because they way Iraq is being run by the Mailiki government. That man does not share power. He favors shias and thats all. ISIS or Shias, two faces of same page. they impose their ideas, and philosophies on others,

 

Why it always ends up getting sectarian? Is there a Maliki in Pakistan? Is there a shia govt in Pakistan? Doesnt Pakistan have the same terrorism problem as Iraq or Somalia or Mali or Libya or.....? Which one of those 30 0r 40 innocent people that were killed in Karachi few days ago had persecuted Sunnis? If Pakistan's govt is as weak as Iraq's then what TTP would do to Pakistan would far surpass what ISIS is doing to Iraq or Syria.

 

Its not shia vs sunni its terrorism vs civility.

 

Here, ISIS beheading a Sunni chief of police and ridiculing his dead body. As I have mentioned before, statistically speaking, these terrorists have harmed way more Sunnis than anyone else be it shia, christians, jews, or atheists.

http://www.businessi...ic-tweet-2014-6

[PS:Annonymous]

Not so Quick Hulegu

First of all, we are discussing Iraq. Not Pakistan.

Iraq problem is core shia-sunni issue.

You can try to be clever and come up with these quick logic laced agenda driven argument like the jews do in Western media but you can not hide the truth. Why the Minority in Iraq welcomes the forces so extreme over their own government?

Why a Shia prime minister openly promote policies to discriminate the minority in jobs, social services and any way he could thinking about doing it?

You cannot blame the incompetence and discriminatory, revenge driven attitude of Shia majority on Terrorist.

Why you end up sectarian? because you are always doing Iranian/Shia propaganda. For you whatever Iran, Hizbollah, Asad does is nothing less then prophecy.

I can post just as many videos of Shias terrorists and Irani totalitarian regime doing same or more cruel stuff.

[Hulegu]

OK. Lets assume that all the problem is shia and maliki and assad.

 

What about Nigeria? there are none of the above there.

What about Pakistan? There are none of the above there.

What about Libya? There are none of the above there.

 

 

You would have been right if terrorism was a reality only in Iraq. But it is not.

[butterfly]

OK. Lets assume that all the problem is shia and maliki and assad.
 
What about Nigeria? there are none of the above there.
What about Pakistan? There are none of the above there.
What about Libya? There are none of the above there.
 
 
You would have been right if terrorism was a reality only in Iraq. But it is not.

Muslims generally have been oppressed for the last couple of hundred years by various super power. Britain, France, Italy, the soviets and the Americans. Palestine, Kashmir, chechenya has seen brutal repression. Dictatorial regimes like Gadaffi, Mubarak, Asad, the house of saud are there to repress their own people Whislt serving their colonial masters. Yes this is still happening today. People are taking up arms and some times doing wrong. But they are fighting oppression with oppression. Too easy to lay the blame on the door of the people of Mali, or Somali, or Afghanistan etc. Much harder to ask why? For example Somali fishermen became pirates, why, afghans became fighters, why, first the Russians and then the whole world? Brutal oppression in Kashmir? Why are these civilised governmenets of your so eager to invade and oppress a people imposing your values upon them. Sure they will rise and fight as they have no choice. Due to lack of education and command they will commit heinous crimes against humanity but have you forgotten pictures from Abu gharaib prison - what the Americans were doing to prisoners. They were your civilised people. No war brings out the worst in people but I sincerely believe that after all this some better will come. After all ww1 and ww2 made Europe sit up and think. Now they don't want war but will asset strip Afghanistan and Iraq at will because its easy to kill a few uneducated Muslims. Your simplistic view of good against evil simply doesn't hold up!

[Metanoia]

OK. Lets assume that all the problem is shia and maliki and assad.

 

What about Nigeria? there are none of the above there.

What about Pakistan? There are none of the above there.

What about Libya? There are none of the above there.

 

 

You would have been right if terrorism was a reality only in Iraq. But it is not.

 

 

No one is defending the terrorist filth here. The discussion has evolved a little mate.....now it is encompassing Iraq's future and the whole thread is in the context of Iraq itself.

Nouri Al Maliki is a f@cker.....he had the choice of building a cohesive society, a society which could have resisted these afterbirths as Iraqis. Instead Maliki's forces abandoned Mosul and Tikrit to run back in order to save their "brothers". If Saddam started the vicious cycle of sectarianism.....this Maliki and co. are doing a great job in sustaining it.

 

No one is claiming that the terrorist problem in Nigeria, Pakistan or Libya is caused by shias....in fact shias are often the target of extremism in Pakistan.

[Felicius]

No one is claiming that the terrorist problem in Nigeria, Pakistan or Libya is caused by shias....in fact shias are often the target of extremism in Pakistan.

 

 

Terrorists everywhere use that tool to gain support from the majority. Initially they hit on the minority just so the majority do not feel threatened and react - gives them time to get stronger.

Edited by Felicius, 15 June 2014 - 09:53 AM.

[Felicius]

^^^ I was saying Iraq's borders will be redrawn. The analysts are saying the entire Middle East's borders will be redrawn.

 

 

http://www.dawn.com/...east-boundaries

 

Iraq's implosion could redraw Middle East boundaries

By Reuters

 

“We are seeing a redrawing of boundaries for sure,” says Fawaz Gergez, a middle east expert. — Photo by REUTERS

 

BEIRUT: The capture of Iraqi cities Mosul and Tikrit by al Qaeda-influenced militants has not only redrawn the map of a country corroded by sectarian hatred.

 

It could also redesign Middle Eastern national boundaries set nearly a century ago after the fall of the Ottoman empire, and lead to a forging of new regional alliances.

 

As well-armed forces of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) raised their black flags over Mosul this week, routing an Iraqi army that fled rather than fight, the future of Iraq as a unitary state hung in the balance.

 

As they pressed south towards Baghdad, the rest of the region, the United States and other powers woke up to the prospect that this militant comeback could establish a dangerous base in the heart of the Middle East — an Afghanistan on the Mediterranean.

 

“What we are witnessing is the fragmentation of power. The government of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki will never be able to centralize power in the same way he has,” says Fawaz Gerges, a Middle East expert at the London School of Economics.

 

“We are seeing a redrawing of boundaries for sure,” he said.

 

As the conflict escalated, Iraq's most senior Shia cleric on Friday urged his followers to take up arms to defend themselves against the Sunni revolt. A rare message from Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the highest religious authority for Shias in Iraq, said people should unite to fight back against the insurgency by ISIL fighters and former Saddam loyalists.

 

Sistanis's intervention followed the failure of the government of Nuri al-Maliki, the Shia prime minister re-elected in April, to convene a quorum in parliament to grant him emergency powers. Sunni and Kurdish lawmakers had stayed away.

 

A stunned region

 

The peshmerga forces of the Kurdish region of northern Iraq meanwhile seized Kirkuk, the oil-rich region bordering their self-governing territory, stepping into a security vacuum to claim a prize they have always regarded as their own.

 

The ease with which ISIL, a Sunni militant movement that has fed on the civil war in Syria and staked out the ungoverned space between eastern Syria and western Iraq, swept into Iraqi cities has stunned a region seemingly inured to shock.

 

The insurgents, led by Iraqis who broke with al-Qaeda, are pressing south to Baghdad.

 

Some experts say they may be over-reaching. But while ISIL's predecessors were defeated in 2007-08 by Sunni tribal militias empowered by U.S. forces, ISIL has exploited Sunni anger at Maliki's sectarianism and inherited networks from Saddam Hussein's army.

 

“ISIL has been able to embed itself with a disaffected and alienated Sunni community”, says Gerges.

 

“In fact, the most important development about ISIL in the last year is its ability to recruit former officers and soldiers of the dissolved Iraqi army. If you observe how ISIL has been waging war you see a skilled mini army, confident, that has command and control, is motivated and using war tactics.”

 

The ISIL advance has been joined by former Baathist officers who were loyal to Saddam as well as disaffected armed groups and tribes who want to topple Maliki. So far the towns and cities that have fallen to the militants have been Sunni.

 

“The Sunnis of Iraq are willing to go to bed with the devil to defeat Maliki, this is where the danger lies,” Gerges said.

 

Redrawing the borders

 

The million-strong Iraqi army, by contrast, trained by the United States at a cost of more than $20bn, is hobbled by low morale and corruption that impedes its supply lines.

 

Its effectiveness is hurt by a perception among Sunnis that it pursues the hostile interests of the Shias, a majority in Iraq, raised to power by the U.S. led invasion of 2003.

 

The Kurdish capture of Kirkuk overturns a fragile balance of power that has held Iraq together since Saddam's fall.

 

Iraq's Kurds have done well since 2003, running their own affairs while being given a fixed percentage of the country's overall oil revenue. But with full control of Kirkuk — and the vast oil deposits beneath it — they could earn more on their own, eliminating the incentive to remain part of a failing Iraq.

 

U.S. President Barack Obama threatened military strikes against ISIL, highlighting the gravity of the group's threat to redraw borders in a region already wracked by war.

 

Hayder al-Khoei, Associate Fellow at Chatham House, said the militant onslaught leaves Washington in an awkward position.

 

“With US-made military vehicles and weapons being paraded by militants in Mosul, policy-makers will be questioning the effectiveness of providing Baghdad with even more military hardware that may end up in the hands of the very people they want to defeat,” he said.

 

Ambivalent to hostile

 

Reactions inside the region are ambivalent to hostile. Deep down Saudi Arabia and its Sunni allies, which have never reconciled themselves to the loss of Sunni-ruled Iraq to the Shias, detest Maliki for his alliance with non-Arab Shia Iran. They would like to see Maliki brought down but did not want al-Qaeda affiliates to be the ones doing it.

 

They believe Iran, backed by its allies, wants to build a Shia crescent from Iraq through Syria to Lebanon.

 

“I can imagine a Saudi official saying 'the wrong people are doing the right thing',” said Jamal Khashoggi, head of a TV news station owned by Saudi billionaire Prince Alwaleed bin Talal.

 

On the other hand, Iran, which has strong leverage in Iraq, is so alarmed by the ISIL advances that it may be ready to cooperate with Washington in helping Baghdad fight back.

 

A senior Iranian official said that the idea is being discussed among the Islamic Republic's leadership. For now, officials say, Iran will send its neighbour advisers and weaponry, although probably not troops, to help Maliki.

 

Turkey, which has turned a blind eye to militants crossing its border to fight Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, is not ready to intervene militarily because it fears its own sectarian demons and will focus on securing its borders, experts say.

 

The Kurds, crucial players, will likely resist Baghdad's calls to be drawn in by sending troops to recapture Mosul and other towns. They will instead consolidate their presence in Kirkuk and along their borders, Kurdish officials said.

 

Iran weighing in

 

Iraq watchers say ISIL, estimated to have a few thousand fighters inside Iraq, won't be able to advance into Baghdad, a capital of 6 million where Maliki has his special forces deployed, backed by Iranian-trained militias.

 

“I don't think they will run as far as Baghdad. They haven't got the numbers, they overreached themselves...It is more about the weakness of the Iraqi state than it is about the state of ISIL,” said Toby Dodge, Director of the Middle East Centre at the London School of Economics.

 

Just as there is little chance of ISIL taking over the Shia-dominated capital, the Iraqi army is unlikely to dislodge ISIL from Mosul or regain full control of the north of the country, even with Shia militia volunteers and likely Iranian support.

 

With the rising Sunni insurgency, Iran may have to weigh in to salvage its ally and Tehran's influence in Iraq as it did in neighbouring Syria.

 

Diplomatic sources said Iran already has high-ranking commanders, including two close aides of Qassem Suleimani, the commander of the Revolutionary Guards elite Quds force, regularly holding meetings with Maliki.

 

Malikis' mobilisation of Shia militias, endorsed by the highest religious authority, has the potential to trigger all-out sectarian strife, analysts say.

 

And there are concerns that Iraq might disintegrate into sectarian and tribal conflict, shattering into Shia, Sunni and Kurdish entities.

 

“Maliki is playing with fire by trying to unleash Shia militias, this is a recipe for disaster. That's exactly what ISIL wants — to trigger all-out sectarian war,” Gerges said.

 

“Iraq has never healed, it is a mutilated country. The crisis is reaching a tipping point whereby Iraq will splinter into three or four states or reconcile. To reconcile you need a new leader, a new mindset and you don't have it there.”

[Metanoia]

Terrorists everywhere use that tool to gain support from the majority. Initially they hit on the minority just so the majority do not feel threatened and react - gives them time to get stronger.

 

 

 

Of course.....even the term "enough time" is overrated because in Mosul and Tikrit the ISIL took mere 2 days before distributing those pamphlets about their new laws. They were very cordial with the local population for hardly 2 days.