92 replies to this topic

[PS:Annonymous]

I have this thread, if you guys have any question, which you want to ask. Post that here instead of opening insane new topics and one liners.

be respectfull and thank full to the person who provide you the info.

remember we are all here to learn.

[faz101]

I can help you with the subs classification bit:

SSK: diesel or other conventionally powered sub. Examples include Pakistani Agostas and Indian Kilos etc. (most countries have SSKs).

SSN: nucleared powered hunter-killer sub. examples include Los Angeles class, UK Trafalgar class etc. (only Britian, France, US, Russia and China have these).

SSBN: nuclear powered ballistic missile subs that provide nuclear detterents for the countries that have them. Examples include the massive Trident class of US and the biggest sub ever made, Russia's Typhoon class of which the Kursk was an example. (the same 5 listed above also have SSBNs).

regards.

[maglomanic]

Just to add something to Faz's post.

The Cruise Missile capable SSKs are also refered to as SSGs.

The SSBNs are also know as Boomers.


For Classifications of corvettes,frigates,destroyers. It depends on their displacements and over all weapons capability.

Water displacement is a less fluid measurement than weapons capability. The more displacement a ship has the more sea worthiness it will have, i.e effeciveness in operating in higher deeper seas. I think weapons capability is not that muc relative cause you ll find even corvettes these days more lethal than many old frigates.

[faz101]

yep we've got 4 Griffon 2000TD....here's the company link that has some more info:

http://www.griffonho...t.com/2000.html

these hovercraft and the new military assault boats are being used by the Marines to patrol the Sir Creek area which is mainly marshland.

[faz101]

nope just 4 hovercrafts from this company which is based in UK i think.

along with the hovercrafts we got the MRTP-33 fast assault boats from turkey for the SSG(N). so now the SSG(N) has these fast assault boats, possibly hovercrafts if need be, midget subs and helos....

[sparten]

SSBN: nuclear powered ballistic missile subs that provide nuclear detterents for the countries that have them. Examples include the massive Trident class of US and the biggest sub ever made, Russia's Typhoon class of which the Kursk was an example. (the same 5 listed above also have SSBNs).

Actually the Kursk was a Oscar Clas SSGN. These are ships that are like boomers (SSBNs) except that they carry cruise missles and hava an anti-Ship role, the Oscars were designed on a Typhoon hull and were for destroying USN CVs.

do submarines possess radars..?

Yes they do. They obviously do not work under water (though at periscope depth the Radar Mast can be raised). The Radar is for tracking surface ships and air planes. It is rarely used since its use can lead to counter detection and SONAR is usually good enough for Surface Ships.

[GreenBeret]

whats the difference between a destroyer and frigate?

[macau boy]

whats the difference between a destroyer and frigate?

Nowadays,... not that much anymore. Most of these ships today are capable of multi-function and are jack-of-all-trades. Besides normal naval missions their secondary jobs often include, but not limited to, EEZ partol and security, anti-smuggling, technological showplace and diplomatic exchanges etc...

[GreenBeret]

so what are they capable off?just 3-6 big calibre guns to knock of coastal defenses,bombings?AA guns for AD?what else is their use?

[macau boy]

so what are they capable off?just 3-6 big calibre guns to knock of coastal defenses,bombings?AA guns for AD?what else is their use?

That is a very broad question. Let me try to illustrate.

In Western European countries like Germany a type F125 FFG weighs more than 5,500 tonne and comes with all the modern fleet AD, anti-ship and ASW toys money can buy. Other examples are the Norwagian Aegis F310 and the Dutch LCF. On the other extreme, a type 053 Jianghu class vessel weighs barely 1,650 tonne with far fewer and far less capable weapons is also classified as a FFG. To take it one step farther, A type 051 Luda class DDG is less than 3,500 tonne fully loaded which is only 2/3 the size of a type F125 FFG.

So, I guess it depends on the particular situations of a country. What is a FFG to one could qualify as a DDG to another and vice verse.

[GreenBeret]

cruiser is aslo a type of battleship?

[macau boy]

cruiser is aslo a type of battleship?

Up to the end of WWII there were distinctions between the two. Today, both have all but disappeared from major naval forces. I think the last battleship (a Missouri class BBG) retired more than a decade ago.

[speedyturtle]

I have got a question for my brothers, We all know that Pakistan wants to have as much TOT as possible and we want to create our on stuff after learning, wee did got the tot of agosta, any brother got any idea that what is the progress in that field are we(Pakistani navy)thinking about making our own sub other than agosta?
THANKS


SPEEDY
enjoy

[waz]

I have got a question for my brothers, We all know that Pakistan wants to have as much TOT as possible and we want to create our on stuff after learning, wee did got the tot of agosta, any brother got any idea that what is the progress in that field are we(Pakistani navy)thinking about making our own sub other than agosta?
THANKS
SPEEDY
enjoy

At this point in time we can only produce the Agosta submarine by ourselves but some parts still need to be bought in from France. We are now looking at submarines with a far more advanced outlook and particular attention is being paid to models like the German 212/214 submarine and yes we are looking for a transfer of technology.

[speedyturtle]

I thought that agosta were good subs and yes they are but we are still building them and still looking for other subs, now what is the main difference what are the down points on agosta, sorry i didnt looked into it properly but are agosta not as quiet? or we cant launch our other missiles from agostas what are we lacking in agosta that we are looking for other subs keeping in mind what bhindies got in there navy.


SPEEDY
enjoy

[Chafford]

I have a question about ranks in the Pakistan Navy.

Are the Chief Petty Officer Ranks: Chief Petty Officer, Fleet Chief Petty Officer and Master Chief Petty Officer classified as Junior Commissioned Officers?

[Miroslav]

I have a question about ranks in the Pakistan Navy.

Are the Chief Petty Officer Ranks: Chief Petty Officer, Fleet Chief Petty Officer and Master Chief Petty Officer classified as Junior Commissioned Officers?

As per my best knowledge the JCO's in PN are ranked as (Junior to Senior)

Master Chief Petty Officer I
Master Chief Petty Officer II
Chief Petty Officer

The NCO's are ranked as (Junior to Senior)

Seaman-II
Seaman-I
Leading Seaman
Petty Officer

Rest you can wait for some knowledgeable Pakistani members as they will correct me if I am wrong.

[defensethefence]

What is the Pakistan Navy Future Fleet ?

Is Agosta 90-b Is really Can Give Any Opponent hard Time ?



What is the Pakistan Navy Future Fleet ?

Is Agosta 90-b Is really Can Give Any Opponent hard Time ?

[Chafford]

As per my best knowledge the JCO's in PN are ranked as (Junior to Senior)

Master Chief Petty Officer I
Master Chief Petty Officer II
Chief Petty Officer

The NCO's are ranked as (Junior to Senior)

Seaman-II
Seaman-I
Leading Seaman
Petty Officer

Rest you can wait for some knowledgeable Pakistani members as they will correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks

Interesting that Chief Petty Officers are classified as 'Junior Commissioned Officers' in the Pakistan Navy. CPOs and Warrant Officers in the Royal Navy are classed as 'ratings'

[zeeshan112]

hello guys how are you please can you send me a quwwat missile boat pics thankyou soon as possible anyone me thankyou very much

[GreenBeret]

Range of Harpoon(new and old version used by PN),Brahmos and name and range of any Chinese missile falling in same category?

[GreenBeret]

everyone sleeps in the navy forum or i asked the wrong question?

[faz101]

lol no you asked a difficult qn. i'll try and get the figures for you when i have some free time cause this requires quite a bit of potential googling.

regards.

[GreenBeret]

lol no you asked a difficult qn. i'll try and get the figures for you when i have some free time cause this requires quite a bit of potential googling.

regards.

didnt u guys discuss the ranges?i remember abt discussion but i cant even find it.

[mmkextreme_1]

salam to all i m new to the site and i have couple of questions about the Pakistan Navy...

my questions are is the agosta not a good subarine and can it give the oppenents (india) a hard time and is it cabable of launching nuclear warheads...wat is the PN future like in terms of fleet...y doesn't the PN start its own aircraft carrier project or attain one i know we don't have the capabilities but we can start...wat would the ideal future fleet be for the PN keeping it in limits...are the f-22 frigrates good and where are the ones we bought from greece or something like that...by subarines is the PN trying to built or something along those lines trying to built a nuclear powerd vessel...and for the aircraft carrier thing do you think that the PN is involved with china's program secretivly....

thank you bros if u can answer these i know they are chilldish but i m new....thank you and Allah Hafiz

[Volcano-X]

salam to all i m new to the site and i have couple of questions about the Pakistan Navy...

my questions are is the agosta not a good subarine and can it give the oppenents (india) a hard time and is it cabable of launching nuclear warheads...wat is the PN future like in terms of fleet...y doesn't the PN start its own aircraft carrier project or attain one i know we don't have the capabilities but we can start...wat would the ideal future fleet be for the PN keeping it in limits...are the f-22 frigrates good and where are the ones we bought from greece or something like that...by subarines is the PN trying to built or something along those lines trying to built a nuclear powerd vessel...and for the aircraft carrier thing do you think that the PN is involved with china's program secretivly....

thank you bros if u can answer these i know they are chilldish but i m new....thank you and Allah Hafiz

salamualikum ..

well brother lolz dey r not childish but infact gud points and i will try my best to give answers to all of ur questions..

Agosta submarine is war proven and a gud submarine though am not a Xpert in dis section but still i find agosta reliable and yes it can give hard tym to bhindian navy and no its not capable of launching nuclear warheads yet ..may b InshAllah in near future it will b developed ...

secondly brother aircraft carrier has limited benefits and is gud for dose nations who hav long borders to protect bcoz Aircraft carrier requires a lot of escorts ..means frigates and destroyer and submarines to protect it from enemy ships and all.. secondly there is no proven source tht Pakistan is involved in chinease project though it can b a possibility , plus nuclear powered submarine is very devestating and can remain under water for nearly months ..

Allah Hafiz

P.S welcome to PDF

[mmkextreme_1]

salamualikum ..

well brother lolz dey r not childish but infact gud points and i will try my best to give answers to all of ur questions..

Agosta submarine is war proven and a gud submarine though am not a Xpert in dis section but still i find agosta reliable and yes it can give hard tym to bhindian navy and no its not capable of launching nuclear warheads yet ..may b InshAllah in near future it will b developed ...

secondly brother aircraft carrier has limited benefits and is gud for dose nations who hav long borders to protect bcoz Aircraft carrier requires a lot of escorts ..means frigates and destroyer and submarines to protect it from enemy ships and all.. secondly there is no proven source tht Pakistan is involved in chinease project though it can b a possibility , plus nuclear powered submarine is very devestating and can remain under water for nearly months ..

Allah Hafiz

P.S welcome to PDF

salam...thank you bro for ur answers...yes a nuclear power submarine is very devastating but do u think that the PN is looking to acquire them...i think there is possibility that PN is secritively working with china to develp an aircraft carrier...yes i understand that we need all those things to protect aircraft carriers then india's is not at that capability yet either rite??...still PN needs to look into this in the future i think a aircraft carrier should be on the cards...and is PN still going to buy those German subramines bro's or the French??? is that deal still on...thank you bro once again to answering those questions...Allah HAFIZ

[waz]

salam...thank you bro for ur answers...yes a nuclear power submarine is very devastating but do u think that the PN is looking to acquire them...i think there is possibility that PN is secritively working with china to develp an aircraft carrier...yes i understand that we need all those things to protect aircraft carriers then india's is not at that capability yet either rite??...still PN needs to look into this in the future i think a aircraft carrier should be on the cards...and is PN still going to buy those German subramines bro's or the French??? is that deal still on...thank you bro once again to answering those questions...Allah HAFIZ

The PN at this point in time brother is not looking at an SSN program but we might see something a few years down the line if funds permit and there is a need in terms of our strategic defence.

The PN is not working with China on an aircraft carrier nor do we need one. Pakistan's modernisation plan involves a large number of corvettes, frigates and destroyers that will lead the fleet. Alongside you will have our SSK force.

The deal for the submarines is very much on and the PN hierarchy prefers the German submarines. But the French are throwing in a huge deal in terms of Naval hardware so we might go the other way.

[noxiouspython]

Aoa




Question: Why do we buy Surface-ships instead of Subs? I mean aren't surface ships too vulnerable in war-time? I know unless you have big defences etc around them, which cost a lot of money, but is it any good for Pak-Navy with it's limited budget? I mean wouldn't that money be better spent buying Subs and stuff?


Maybe I am not keeping in mind the fact that you aren't at war most of the time.. and you have other needs, maybe.. but don't you think small boats can do the job? I mean if you need to blow a ship up a Sub can do it as well. Why do you need to have big frigates and Destroyers that can be easy pray for Fighters equiped with right type of Anti-ship missles etc?


Or did I miss something?

-------

Thank you in advance for the answer.

w/salaam

[noxiouspython]

Aoa



Anyone?


w/salaam

[kmc]

Can anybody tell me which is the best Nuclear and Normal i.e, diesel submarines ? Who builds that ? What is its specification i.e, what makes it best than the nearest one ?

[faz101]

Aoa
Anyone?
w/salaam

salam bro,

essentially you need them because your not at war all the time and you need something potent that people can see as showing the flag. besides this a ship offers things that subs haven't been able to in terms of helo capability and anti-air capability.

with regards to the PN i think its fairly obvious that our offensive arms are the sub fleet and the air wing (P3s etc) but the surface fleet still needs to be there to deal with all the other situations, just as an example we wouldn't be able to police our coast 24/7 with either aircraft or subs and wouldn't be able to board and search ships using either a/c or subs either. searching vessels esp. in our case (drugs, people trafficking and terrorism) is very important.

bit of a quick response but hope it helps.

[noxiouspython]

Aoa

salam bro,

JazakumAllah khair bro. That was short and sweet.


w/salaam

[GreenBeret]

That was short and sweet.

wat other kind of information do u consider sweet

[noxiouspython]

Aoa

wat other kind of information do u consider sweet

Anything that is not boring.


w/salaam

[faz101]

Aoa

JazakumAllah khair bro. That was short and sweet.
w/salaam

i aim to please! lol...

[pakistanigunner]

ok i have a question
waht is the difference b/w a destroyer, a frigate, a cruiser??i dont know $hit abt navy so plz help me out..thanks

[faz101]

ok i have a question
waht is the difference b/w a destroyer, a frigate, a cruiser??i dont know $hit abt navy so plz help me out..thanks

traditionally a cruiser is heaviest in terms of sheer tonnage (ie weight) then a destroyer and finally a frigate.

also a cruiser isn't really used any more but belong more to the era of battleships etc which has now ended.

presently destroyers are primarily anti-air warfare (AAW) ships and fall somewhere in the 5000ton catagory while frigates are mostly ASW (anti-sub warfare) ships and lie somewhere in the 3000ton catagory although that varies.

hope that helps.

[pakistanigunner]

thanks a lot for the info..so it has to do with the tonnage of the vessels as well or just the arnament???

[penguin]

thanks a lot for the info..so it has to do with the tonnage of the vessels as well or just the arnament???

You have to keep in mind that what defines a cruiser, destroyer, frigate etc changes over time.

Tonnage is one factor. Armament, armor and speed used to be another (1st half 20th century: cruisers were more lightly armed and armored than battleships, but faster; destroyers had little to no armor but great spead, no heavy gungs but torpedo banks for anti shipping; frigates were about the size of destroyers but mainly for ASW, which meant lower speed, greater bunkerage and longer endurance, smaller guns but more depth charges). Today, it is mainly tonnage, armaments and electronic gear (AAW, land attack capability, radars, command facilities, helo-capability). The smaller the vessel, the less likely is is to be multirole, and the less capable it will be at assigned roles.

Also. remember: if for the budget, ships will be underrated (e.g. calling a destroyer a frigate, like Dutch LCF) but for the opponent it will be overrated (calling a corvette a destroyer, like Iranian 1400 ton surface combattant)