145 replies to this topic

[PS:Annonymous]

I am by no mean agree with the way Hamas operates

But Israelis are no different, If Hamas does the politics in dead bodies then no one does it better than the Zionist.

[Felicius]

There was no need for aggravation when a peace deal is taking place, it was not Hamas' call at all, they are like the TTP of Palestine.

I don't like either. Hamas is popular because they fight the Israelis. However, they start the ruckus too.

[blueazure]

 

------------------------------------

 

Because Hamas philosophy is to have as many dead bodies on both sides so the conflict always stays on the hot plate.

 

They actually welcome the Israelis killing Palestinians.....given their self-declared philosophy of destroying Israel completely....this will only help them become stronger and recruit more.

 

This has been the fundamental philosophy of all resistance and guerilla groups worldwide be it the Spanish vs Napoleon's armies or the polish resistance groups vs Wehrmacht etc.

 

Hamas are not in this for mere survival and continuing of their lot, the see the whole of Israel as stolen occupied territory and peace is actually anathema....like the red guard in china.....they want to create as much ruckus as they want and gamble for something more to come out of it (other than the base line renewed world focus on the area which is always welcome since they are the underdogs).

 

 

drone attacks, target killings of hamas leaders, 

 

you push someone to a wall, and dont expect retaliation ? 

 

israeli for 60 years oppressed, humiliated,stole their lands and  denied rights to Palestinians , Hamas was a violent natural  reaction to that.  hamas is no outsider, everyone in the organization has some relative who was killed by the IDF.   equating hamas to TTP is incorrect, TTP kills fellow muslims , brands them heretics and hence deserving death . 

 

 

 

[Skull-Buster]

Israel broke the ceasefire, not Hamas. People should get out of their bubble. Hamas starting firing rockets back only after Israel started to bomb Gaza.

[noxiouspython]

Aoa

 

 

Can some mod embed this video:

 

https://www.facebook...152330361127663

 

Why is Israel Really Bombing Gaza.

 

Very interesting.

 

w/salaam

[blueazure]

[Skull-Buster]

The range is of no use if they dont have any kind of guidance system to hit targets. Most of the rockets which slip through the Iron Dome end up hitting the empty desert.

[noxiouspython]

Aoa

 

 

I just read someone's comment I thought was worth sharing-

 

If you chain up a dog, starve him, kick him on every occasion, why would you be surprised it that dog bit you, given the opportunity?

 

w/salaam

[noxiouspython]

Aoa

 

 

http://www.zemtv.com...-a-wounded-kid/

 

w/salaam

[Felicius]

Missiles did not start the war, it was the Hams militants kidnapping a couple of Israelis that started it.

Israel even arrested the Israelis who burnt the Palestinian teenager alive to calm the situation and continue with the peace talks.

 

Live in reality, the only bubble here is playing the victim card all the time.

[Skull-Buster]

Who told you Hamas kidnapped the Israelis? Hamas denied it, and above all the Israelis were kidnapped in the West Bank, which is under the control of Fatah and Israel, not Hamas. 

 

And apparently you suffer from selective amnesia, what about the routine kidnapping and killing of Palestinians by Israel in the months leading to the point when the Israelis were kidnappned?

 

• From January 1 to May 31 of this year, Israel kidnapped 2,330 Palestinians and held them in Israeli prisons. During these months, there were an average of 203 Palestinian children in Israeli jails on any given day. Palestinians help captive by Israel can be denied access to a lawyer for up to 90 days, and torture is routine. But the media only expresses outrage when Israelis are kidnapped and held prisoner by Palestinians.
• From January 1 to June 12 of this year, Israelis killed approximately 30 Palestinians, 4 of them children. None of the Israeli killers were held accountable for the murders. Mainstream media outlets almost never reported on any of these killings. Yet everyone was made aware of the names of the three Israelis abducted and murdered in June.

http://ifamericanskn...ce-gaza-14.html

 

[PS:Annonymous]

Israel-Gaza conflict: The myth of Hamas’s human shields

Israel blames Gaza death toll on Palestinians for deliberately putting people in line of fire. But can strikes ever be targeted to minimise civilian casualties in such a densely populated area?

Kim Sengupta
Monday, 21 July 2014

What used to be a three-storey house had been turned into debris sunk into a deep crater with twisted steel rods jutting out. Twenty-six people were killed in the mostly deadly air-strike so far in this bloody conflict. Twenty-four of them were from one family, the Abu Jamaa.

Around the same time that attack was taking place on Sunday evening, Benjamin Netanyahu was charging Hamas on TV with using “human shields” to gather “telegenically dead Palestinians for their cause”. It has long been the Israeli case that the militants cynically and deliberately carry out attacks and store weapons in residential areas and have also stopped people living there from evacuating homes when fighting breaks out.

There have been instances in the 13 days of the current war when the Israelis have sought to provide evidence proving their case. After warplanes targeted the al-Farouq mosque, near the Nuseirat refugee camp, for instance, the military issued aerial photographs which, it stated, showed that the building was being used to store rockets. We have also had the UN agency for Palestinian refugees, UNRWA, announcing that it had discovered 20 rockets hidden in one of its disuse schools in a “flagrant violation” of international law. And rockets are seen to be regularly fired from stretches of open ground close to homes.
Video: Airstrikes continue in Gaza on Tuesday

Are militants also deliberately placing themselves in residences which are then attacked? On the day that Al-Farouq was attacked, the Israeli military also carried out a missile strike on a home for the handicapped in Beit Lahiya, killing two disabled residents and injuring four others. A neighbour claimed that a member of the Islamic Jihad group and his wife had also lived in the building; but he could provide no names or dates for this.

In pictures: Israel-Gaza conflict

Jamilla Alaiwa, a 59 year old social worker who founded the home 24 years ago told me that this was categorically untrue. “If the Israelis have proof of this let them make it public. There was no one from Islamic Jihad or Hamas living there. We are not involved in politics.” The Israeli military stated they were investigating what happened; their conclusions have not reached Gaza. Were they, perhaps, fed false information?

Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields. The Bani Sobeila area, near Khan Younis, where the Abu Jamaa deaths took place received leaflets dropped from the air last week warning them to leave.

But almost all stayed. One reason for that was many of the houses belonged to the Abu Jamaa clan who felt there was safety in staying together. Another reason was given by a neighbour, Abdullah al-Daweish: “Where do we go to? Some people moved from the outer edge of Khan Younis to Khan Younis centre after Israelis told them to, then the centre got bombed. People have moved from this area to Gaza City, and Gaza City has been bombed. It’s not Hamas who is ordering us in this, it’s the Israelis.”
Video: The conflict in Gaza
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Rockets ‘fired at the Houses of Parliament’ in IDF propaganda

Why did they think the house targeted? “We don’t know,” said Saied Abu Jamaa, a cousin who was in his home next door when the blast took place. “Tawfiq, who is the head of the family, is a policeman, but why should he and his family and his neighbours die for that?” Tawfiq Abu Jamaa, 40, distraught figure in a brown jellabiya at the funeral was also at a loss to understand why he had lost his wife and eight children. The sole survivor has Nour, a son of four.

There were 10 recently destroyed buildings on the half-hour drive from Khan Younis to Shujaiya, a town where 90 people had been killed in a 24 hours, an onslaught condemned by the Palestinian government of Mahmoud Abbas as a “heinous massacre”: and UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon as “ an atrocious action”.

Members of families who owned six of the buildings had moved in with relations and neighbours in the area. Their reason for staying behind was primarily because there was, they said, nowhere else to go. There were also declarations about not giving up one’s land, not giving in to invaders.

There was denial of coercion by Hamas. “I am not going to go because I can do something Hamas cannot do”, maintained Nabil al-Masri. “I know from times before that if Israeli soldiers get into an empty house they will ruin it on purpose. Hamas cannot stop them going into my house if we leave, but, by staying here we can try to make sure that doesn’t happen.”

Hamas can, however, be accused of making people complacent, repeatedly stating in the media that the Israeli warnings were psychological games and asking the population to ignore them. Some mentioned this as a reason for staying behind; returning home having initially left.

The counter-argument to that was the need to prevent panic spreading. Almost 85,000 people have been on the move, overwhelming the shelters set up by the UN by sheer numbers. Classrooms meant for 30 now hold up to 70, one typical example was the Girls Preparatory Secondary School, at a suburb of Beit Lahiya in the north, with a capacity of 800 which has taken in 1600. Homes of relatives, a traditional source of refuge, are also feeling the strain.
READ MORE: Kerry flies to Middle East to urge ceasefire
Comment: How we respond to Gaza on Twitter
Comment: Suffering continues for lack of a peace broker

Yasir Hamidi had six additional mouths to feed, along with his family of four, once the bombing began; five more relatives had joined since the ground invasion. His salary from the Ministry of Health stopped even before the conflict started because Gaza’s Hamas administration is bankrupt. “The family members brought some money, but they had to leave almost everything else behind: we are living on my savings, but it will not last for long. After that, who knows?” Mr Hamidi spread his hands in resignation.

Gazans point out that the outside world remains largely unaware just how small and confined the place is – just 25 miles long and just a few miles wide. It is blocked in by closed borders to Israel in the north and east and Egypt in the south. There is no route out by the sea to the west with an Israeli naval blockade. Getting to travel abroad is an excruciatingly long process.

This may be due to Hamas and Islamic Jihad exporting violence, as Israel and Egypt claim, but it is the increasingly large percentage of the 1.7 million population being pushed by the violence into the already heavily congested centre, who are suffering as the relentless bombings and shootings continue.

At the funeral of the Abu Jamaa family, as another body in a shroud was lowered into the grave, Saied, the cousin said: “ That is the only escape many of us will have from here.”

[PS:Annonymous]

How Netanyahu turned a police matter into a war
These are the familiar steps to a tragic and bloody dance
By Matthew Duss | July 17, 2014
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2.5k

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Netanyahu chose war.
Netanyahu chose war. (AP photo/Gali Tibbon)

When three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped in the West Bank on June 12, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had a choice. He could have simply ordered Israel's security forces to find the boys and bring the perpetrators to justice.

Instead, Netanyahu made a different choice. He immediately announced that the extremist group Hamas was responsible (though his government has to date produced no evidence). He then launched a broad crackdown on Hamas infrastructure in the West Bank under the pretext of searching for the missing boys, and arrested hundreds of Palestinian activists, including dozens who had been released as part of the deal with Hamas to release captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in 2011.

On June 30, the bodies of the three boys were found, buried in a shallow grave near Hebron. And it appears that Israeli authorities had good reason to believe that the boys were already dead, indicating that Netanyahu exploited their kidnapping to achieve a political objective against Hamas and to undermine the recently inked unity deal between the two Palestinian rival factions, Hamas and Fatah (which was also a possible goal of those who carried out the kidnapping).

"The blood found in the car, the sound of gunshots in the emergency call, evidence of live ammunition, and the fact that there hasn't been a single instance of two or more people being held hostage in the West Bank in decades — all that led to a single logical assumption: The teens were no longer alive," wrote Israeli journalist Noam Sheizaf at +972. "Yet at the same time, the Israeli public was told the teens were being held by Hamas, and a public campaign calling for their return was launched."

In the wake of the discovery of the teens' bodies, anti-Palestinian demonstrations took off in Israel, with gangs roaming Jerusalem's streets looking for Palestinians to attack. A 17-year-old Palestinian boy, Mohammed Abu Khdeir, was taken off the street and burned alive, his body dumped outside Jerusalem. In the demonstrations that followed Mohammed's funeral, his 15-year-old cousin Tarek was arrested and beaten by masked Israeli policemen, captured on video.

Meanwhile, the rocket fire out of Gaza increased, and with it, the domestic political pressure on Netanyahu to mount a much larger and forceful response.

The kidnapping, wrote the Forward's J.J. Goldberg last week, therefore "set off a chain of events in which Israel gradually lost control of the situation, finally ending up on the brink of a war that nobody wanted — not the army, not the government, not even the enemy, Hamas."

At a security briefing on July 9, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu said the attack on Gaza "will expand and continue until the fire on our communities is over and the quiet is back."

But the key thing to note here is that Israel already had quiet. In the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority provided years of quiet through security cooperation with Israeli security forces. Yet Netanyahu's response to this unprecedented calm — which Israel had long sought — was to undermine his ostensible partner Abbas at every conceivable opportunity through settlement construction, incursions into Palestinian cities, on top of the daily harassment and humiliations of Palestinians that are the reality of the occupation.

In Gaza, Hamas had largely held to the terms of the cease-fire signed in 2012. While rocket attacks did occur, they were usually launched by competing extremist groups. Israeli forces also carried out their own periodic attacks and incursions inside Gaza during that time. But in general, things were very quiet for Israel.

Yet here we are again. Neither side has a strategy that really gets them what they want. But we go through the steps of this familiar, tragic, and bloody dance.

As I write this, there are rumors and reports of an imminent ground invasion by Israel, and of a cease-fire in the works. One thing is certain, though: If Gaza is simply put back in the drawer, we'll end up with another round of fighting in a couple of years.

The Obama administration, for its part, has continued to insist that the status quo is unsustainable. Speaking at a conference in Tel Aviv only last week, just as the rockets began to hit Israel in greater numbers, White House Middle East coordinator Phil Gordon delivered a rebuke of Israel's refusal to end the occupation.

"[H]ow will Israel remain democratic and Jewish if it attempts to govern the millions of Palestinian Arabs who live in the West Bank?," Gordon asked. "How will it have peace if it is unwilling to delineate a border, end the occupations, and allow for Palestinian sovereignty, security, and dignity? How will we prevent other states from isolating Israel or supporting Palestinian efforts in international bodies if Israel is not seen as committed to peace?"

In a press conference shortly afterward, Netanyahu responded. "I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: That there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan." Netanyahu also specifically dismissed the security assessment carried out by U.S. Gen. John Allen, the deepest assessment of its kind ever undertaken by the United States, which had offered options for Israel's phased, coordinated withdrawal from the West Bank. "I told John Kerry and General Allen, the Americans' expert: We live here, I live here, I know what we need to ensure the security of Israel's people."

For those of us who watched with frustration as Secretary Kerry's recent peace effort collapsed, these remarks were importantly clarifying: For Netanyahu, the two state solution is off the table. Recognition of this should be the starting point for U.S. policymakers. Both the Palestinians and Israelis have factions that reject national aspirations of the other. The difference is, on the Israeli side the rejectionists are currently in control.

I doubt the extremists who kidnapped and killed those three Israeli boys could have dreamed of a better outcome.

As for the answer to Gordon's rhetorical questions: I guess we're going to find out.

http://theweek.com/a...tter-into-a-war

[BaburMissile]

Missiles did not start the war, it was the Hams militants kidnapping a couple of Israelis that started it.

Israel even arrested the Israelis who burnt the Palestinian teenager alive to calm the situation and continue with the peace talks.

 

Live in reality, the only bubble here is playing the victim card all the time.

 

No, that's not true at all. The reason why this war continues to be waged is due to the illegal land grabbing and settlement expansion by the Zionists. This happens at gun point. Tanks destroy Palestinian livelihoods and they are expelled from their land. When someone steals your home and means of living you're not just going to sit idle. Also, such atrocities have been taking place for years now. The kidnapping and everything else is just a desperate measure to bring the conflict to the world's attention. The people of Palestine have little choice because the world powers don't care anyway. Inch by inch Palestinian land is getting stolen and no one raises a finger. In fact, Israel has the support of world powers to attack Palestine under the garb of "self-protection". The US provides Israel with state of the art weaponry which is used against Palestinians. Yes, I mean those F-15s, F-16s, tanks, missiles etc. Palestinian rockets are useless. They're just a desperate attempt in a tit for tat. Everyone knows this.

 

When you lose an innocent family member in a shelling or missile strike I'll like to know whether you're playing the victim card. It's always easy to use the "victim card" argument when the loss isn't yours.

 

PS. Get out of your hatred for Arabs. This conflict isn't about Arabs or Muslims. It's about justice and injustice.

[PS:Annonymous]

People of reason, just ask yourself?

What country has turned another free country into a prison camp and then call it a threat?

The most of Zionist do not even believe in God but they never get tired of claiming that God gave them the land.

The same Western Media will never get tired of pushing the Evolution and Darvinism down to our throats and deny the existence of God but as soon as name of Israel is said, they all start chanting. God gave the land to Israel....lol

[BaburMissile]

People of reason, just ask yourself?

What country has turned another free country into a prison camp and then call it a threat?

The most of Zionist do not even believe in God but they never get tired of claiming that God gave them the land.

The same Western Media will never get tired of pushing the Evolution and Darvinism down to our throats and deny the existence of God but as soon as name of Israel is said, they all start chanting. God gave the land to Israel....lol

 

Zionist brutality has crossed all limits. They build apartheid walls to segregate the Palestinians. They build checkpoints to bully and humiliate the Palestinians. They choke the entire economic system of Palestine. Then, they steal Palestinian land in broad daylight. All in the name of the promised land. Despite all this there are some among us that have the courage to defend such scum.

 

It's hard to believe that these Zionists are the same people that were once persecuted by Hitler. How can a nation that has itself been the victim of the Holocaust resort to such indiscriminate butchering of innocent people? Mind-boggling.

[Felicius]

Babur no one is saying that the Israeli attitude isn't high handed. No one is saying that it's not cruelty. But we all know that is how the Israelis are, they will and shall come down with full brutal force even if a single rock is thrown at them. This has been going on for decades now.

 

Hamas knows it and keeps on doing it. If another terrorist group starts firing on Pak soldiers during a TTP - Govt peace talks, then we will go hard on that group and maybe even the TTP. Similarly Hamas knowingly did that during the last peace negotiations and the current ongoing peace negotiations. They ruined it for the Palestinians every single time.

 

You can go to the border with a hunting rifle and shoot at Indian villages at the border, Pakistan Army won't come after you. Similarly Israeli Govt, won't go after the Jewish settlers either. This time they did arrest the settlers who burnt the Palestinian teenager.

 

What Israel is doing now is injustice and against humanity, true. But they do it after Hamas takes matter into their own hands; and they should not have sabotaged the peace negotiations that were going on.

[BaburMissile]

There's a world of difference between terrorist outfits like the TTP and Hamas and we need to differentiate between both. Hamas is fighting for the liberation of its land. Hamas is fighting because its land is being stolen. The TTP is fighting because it's being funded by external forces and wants to wreak havoc in Pakistan. Hamas has no political and/or religious motive like other militant outfits. Its sole purpose is to establish the Palestinian state.

 

The problem isn't Hamas, but it's Israel. That has always been the case. As I've said before, Israel keeps on building illegal settlements on Palestinian land. This has been on going of for far too long. When Israel steals Palestinian land no one bats an eyelid. Hamas has no purpose of existence if Israel stops stealing Palestinian land.

 

We need to understand that Israel wants to drag on with this conflict. Israel doesn't want a resolution for this conflict. Israel only wants to forcefully steal more and more Palestinian land. Israel uses Hamas as a propaganda tool to divert the attention from the root cause of this conflict. The core issue is the promised land.

[Felicius]

And they will continue to build settlements, they will continue to bombard Palestine - by throwing rocks and Katyusha they get an excuse to gain more foothold.

What is the solution? Sabotaging the peace negotiation is not a solution.

 

Yes Israelis are cruel, but at the same time we are all fed up of Hamas as well, they aren't angels either. Kab tuk chaley ga yeh?

And if it's their country their wish, then sure keep on at it; Pakistan can't help them.

 

Again what is the solution and who is the one who keeps on sabotaging it?

[BaburMissile]

Israel will stop at nothing. This has been proven time and time again. The negotiations are a farce. Israel isn't sincere to end the conflict. Explain the following to me. How can Israel continue to steal Palestinian land during the peace negotiations? What does this tell you about Israeli sincerity? What use are the negotiations when Palestinian land is systematically being stolen to expand Israeli settlements?

 

Israel is responsible for the creation of Hamas. Hamas wouldn't have to exist if Israel stopped stealing Palestinian land. Hamas wouldn't have to exist if Israel stopped massacring innocent Palestinians in broad daylight etc. Hamas isn't a terrorist group. Even if Hamas disappeared today, another Palestinian group would appear with a different name, but the same motivation. You know why? Hamas or X and Y for that matter represents the Palestinian cause and struggle. It's not in the name. It's all about the motive, namely freedom.

 

The solution is very simple. Israel needs to stop stealing Palestinian land. Peace negotiations can only be effective if Israel stops stealing Palestinian land.

[Metanoia]

Who sold out the Palestinians lands to the first of Israelis? 

Answer: Not Pakistan

 

But either ways Pakistan has always stood firm with the Palestinians despite the fact that Yasser Arafat supported India on Kashmir....and despite the fact that the Palestinians have been involved in various gruesome acts around the world.  

Again I ask, who sold out the Palestinians on the first place? Why aren't they being held accountable? 

 

 

Diplomatic support...food...medicines...education.....this is something Pakistan should do. If it truly wants to help the palestinians for the long term....broker a ceasefire and help them socially. However; it won't happen.

[Krad]

 

 

Hamas starting firing rockets back only after Israel started to bomb Gaza.

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http://en.wikipedia....on_Israel,_2014

[Skull-Buster]

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http://en.wikipedia....on_Israel,_2014

 

 

All these rockets were fired in retaliation to Israel's continued bombing of Palestine and killing of Palestinian people. But not all were fired by Hamas.

[noxiouspython]

Aoa

 

 

Jon Stewart on the Middle east conflict. Funny and interesting.

 

http://www.dailymoti...ing-israel_news

 

w/salaam

[blueazure]

please cut the  BS.  Palestinians need MANPADS, they need guided missiles,  what good is education  to them ??? 

 

it is childish to argue who did what , yassir arafat never had the popular support of the people like ahmed yassin etc . either way ,it doesnt matter in the present context. 550 + have been butchered by isreal in cold blood and more will die. Israel is a mad dog that has to kicked hard .

[Metanoia]

never had the popular support of the people......  

[Skull-Buster]

We should provide them support in the form of education? 

 

What a joke. Palestine's literacy rate is 91%. Compared to Pakistan's 60%.

[Pak-Eye]

IMHO, Hamas pushed it bit far while knowing very well the consequences; from whom they were expecting help/support in the dead end valley of Gaza? What was the strategy?

 

If it was Morsi ruling Egypt, that would have been an all different game; but with Al-Sissi another, border guard statesman of Israel, it was the worst timing to extend and expand the warfare

 

The pictures coming out of Gaza are ... I don't have even words now; you know those few moments in your life when your favorite dish is on table and you are unable to eat it; or you start imagining that dead boy in Gaza today is your son ... and that screaming father is you actually; that slight imagination sends down loads of shiver down the spine

 

We are humans in the end

 

Because the current Muslim 'regimes' are protectors, defenders and helpers of the enemies and are doing nothing in the face of events like above, individuals look towards Islamists/Jihadists

 

The only possible and realistic way forward to change the status quo is to take down the whole current 'middle east order' aka physical and virtual buffer zones of Israel

 

And indeed it shall go down

[Skull-Buster]

Personally I think this operation against Gaza was long time in the planning, and the Israelis who were kidnapped and then found dead were part of Israel's plan. First they removed Morsi and installed their agent Sisi to close the only supply route to Gaza, then they blame Hamas for the kidnapping and start striking Gaza knowing Hamas will respond. Then they launch a full scale operation. By now most of Hamas's weapons stockpile must be depleted, and the only source of supplies is blocked. It was Israel's plan all along to kill civilians in a massive number so that Hamas respond and eventually run out of weapons.

[Metanoia]

We should provide them support in the form of education? 

 

What a joke. Palestine's literacy rate is 91%. Compared to Pakistan's 60%.

 

 

Not Gaza....but anyways it does proves my point.

Anyways you should also mention that their food intake and overall quality of life is also better than majority of Pakistanis...still you would us to put ourselves in further mess for them?

[Skull-Buster]

Food intake and overall quality of life of Gazans is better than majority of Pakistanis? Who are you kidding?

[Metanoia]

HDI of Palestinian territories is 0.670(medium development) as compared to Pakistan's 0.515(low development).......least you can do is some research instead repeating rhetorics. 

You're right on the food intake though...Pakistan is only marginally better than Palestine there.

[Skull-Buster]

HDI of Palestine is better because of the high literacy rate. 

 

And lets talk about Gaza shall we? Everything from malnutrition to poverty to unemployment, Gaza has it worse than Pakistan.

[Skull-Buster]

Entire infrastructure of Gaza is destroyed, most people left homeless, jobless. Those who have work in the few remaining buildings like hospitals did not get paid salaries since many months. Entire population left in dire poverty and malnutrition, forced onto them by a cruel siege from all sides. And some genius says that they are living a better life than most of us.

[Metanoia]

I was the one proposing those options for Gaza.....and you thought providing Gazians with education was a joke. At least I listed what Pakistan can do practically. 

What is your proposal apart from cheap shots?

[Felicius]

There's a world of difference between terrorist outfits like the TTP and Hamas and we need to differentiate between both. 

 

As I've said before, Israel keeps on building illegal settlements on Palestinian land. 

 

The core issue is the promised land.

 

 

No we don't. Uzbeks sees TTP as angels, Pakistan sees them as devils. Arabs see ISIL as saviours, Iran sees them as insurgents. Iran sees Hamas as guardians, Arabs sees them as Shaitan. Individual perceptions vary. Emphasis is not on perception, rather on actions and who is the stronger one and "in control".

 

TTP knows what Pakistan Army will do if provoked again. We all know what Israel will do if provoked again. And Hamas knows it the most, that if we provoke Israel they will kill Palestinians and the peace deal will fail again - Rajiv fire at will...

 

1987 Hamas was formed. Palestinian-Israeli peace negotiation started in 1991. In 1993 Oslo Accord was signed. In 1995 final agreement was signed. Palestine was liberated, they had their own flag, flights were permitted. Gaza had an airport. Hamas decided they don't like the agreement. You can say Israel took the land, I say Hamas gave the Israelis the land.

 

Today the core issue is the rights of passage.

 

[Skull-Buster]

I was the one proposing those options for Gaza.....and you thought providing Gazians with education was a joke. At least I listed what Pakistan can do practically. 

What is your proposal apart from cheap shots?

 

It is a joke when they are more educated than us.

 

My proposal which I mentioned, providing Hamas with Baktar Shikan ATGMs and Anza MANPADs. The only way Gaza can live in peace is if Hamas has a deterrence against Isreal. If they do not have anything to deter Israel, Israel will keep bombing Gaza back to the stone age and the people will never get out of their misery.

 

We did it with Bosnia even when the Serbs did not do anything to Pakistan, so we should definitely do it with Gaza when Israel has come to India's aid in every war it has fought with Pakistan. 

[Felicius]

Iran supplies them with weapons as well. Instead of defence, Hamas uses them for offence.

Israel has a much superior force, let's not get carried away. If they have Bakhtars then Israel will use different weaponry, and that will annihilate more Palestinians. Consequences will be more devastating for the Palestinians.

 

One State theory isn't workable, nor is rights of passage.

There are only 2 solutions today. One is that OIC gives a collective call and Israel is disarmed and forced to go back to the 67 borders. The other is to allow the peace negotiation continue between the Palestinian Government and the Israelis.

 

At the most recent negotiations Israel wasn't willing to give the lands they built the settlements on, but were willing to give different lands to the Palestinians. There will be give and take, one will gain more than the other. At-Least Palestinians will have their own country (again).

 

Hamas needs to let it proceed.

[Metanoia]

@Skull: Yaar how will our ammunitions reach the Gazans? kaisay ?! 

 

Hypothetically even if they reach the Gazans.....you know what will happen vis-a-vis the US, Saudi Arabia and some other international players? Pakistan and Pakistani passport holders will literally get f*cked.

 

Jub tak Pakistan khud azad nahi hoga doosrou ko kiya khak azad karwaye ga.

 

Do you have any idea of the condition in Iran...bhookay marr rahay hai log whilst the politicians and ayatollahs are getting richer. I personally know during my stay in Malaysia what toll the sanctions and international isolation has taken on the Iranian society. For what it's worth we are still a bit better.

 

You need to understand that where does the true power of Israel lies.....what entity is it which has its full weight behind them? An entity which enables Israel to defy each and every consequence? An entity which the world knows not to mess with or confront directly?

 

It is the US, and they are practically lords of UN and EU. Until or unless a country can not stand up to US then forget about standing up to Israel in an armed confrontation. Instead we will have to go for other options.

[PS:Annonymous]

People who say that its all Hamas doing, are dead wrong and instead of using their brain are reading too much into Media.

Natanyahu has derailed the peace process. He humiliated Obama administration again and again.

When PLO chose peace path, they get nothing. They are humiliated and been given a run around.

Any attempt to make peace is responded by the Israelis with illegal settlements.

What is happening is Gaza, it is nothing but a collective punishment and termination.

Say whatever you want to say and bash hamas to please the masters.

Truth is on your faces, but you have chose to close your eyes because the master does not want you to face the truth.