220 replies to this topic

[ArtilleryFire]

AL-Khalid tank is one of the newest and deadliest tank in the worl it has a capability to Auto-Track the enemy tanks and fire its target at night in another words it got night vision capability only French have this capability. It meets severe deserts conditions with superb performance. The Al-Khalid tank performance is much better than the RUSSIANS T-90s. Al-Khalid has been designed with 48 caliber smooth bore, auto-frettaged and chrome platted gun which can fire APFSDS, HEAT-FS and HE-FS conventional ammunation and missles. The tank is also equipped with a 7.62 mm-coaxial MG, 12.7 mm externally mounted MG that can be fired with hatched close and grenade launchers. A 1200 horse power super charged, diesel engine and semi-automatic transmission,which provides mobility. The ballistic computation time is less than 1 seconds for accurate fire control third generation gating facility has been provided. The result of such a modern fire control system is, routine first round hits on standard (8 ft x 8 ft) at targets in range excess 2000 meters. The tank with its 125 mm gun has a remarkably stable performance which is provided by combination of soft recoil and excellent suspension.With AL-KHALIDS Pakistani ARMOUR IS UNBEATABLE !!!! :SNIPER: :SNIPER: :SNIPER: :SNIPER: :SNIPER:
IN MY WORDS IT HAS A REMARKABLE PERFORMANCE AND A BEST AND SUPERB TANK!
IS indians T-72s and T-90s are able to meet AL-KHALID performance even they are modified?
MY ANSWER WOULD BE NO. BECAUSE INDIANS TANKS ARE OLD FASHOINED.

Pakistan ARMY AND NATION IS PROUD OF HIS HOME MADE TANK. WHILE indians HAVE TRIED TO MADE THIER ONE BUT FAILED BECAUSE india ONLY KNOW TO SAy ( :(Blah :(Blah :(Blah :(Blah :(Blah ) NOT TO DO.and its a fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pakistan ZINDABAD :pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg)

[akwafresh]

AL-Khalid tank is one of the newest and deadliest tank in the worl it has a capability to Auto-Track the enemy tanks and fire its target at night in another words it got night vision capability only French have this capability. It meets severe deserts conditions with superb performance.

Almost every-semi modern tank have this ability, just how useful is an auto track anyways? why are you tracking instead of shooting!!

The Al-Khalid tank performance is much better than the RUSSIANS T-90s. Al-Khalid has been designed with 48 caliber smooth bore, auto-frettaged and chrome platted gun which can fire APFSDS, HEAT-FS and HE-FS conventional ammunation and missles

Both tanks have basically the same gun.

The ballistic computation time is less than 1 seconds for accurate fire control third generation gating facility has been provided. The result of such a modern fire control system is, routine first round hits on standard (8 ft x 8 ft) at targets in range excess 2000 meters

there are no "advanced" tank FCS out there, all of them have less computing power than the modern PDA, they all use basically 80s level computers.

Pakistan ARMY AND NATION IS PROUD OF HIS HOME MADE TANK.

not really homemade, the tank design is from the Chinese Type-90, engine is from Ukraine, the main gun is either from China or Ukraine.

[Peacemaker]

What part did Ukraine and China played then?

Here is what Chinese say....

Type 90-II Main Battle Tank

NAME:
PLA designation: Type 90-II
Manufacturer name: N/A

CONTRACTOR: China North Industries Group Corporation (NORINCO)

SERVICE STATUS: Technical demonstration product. Did not enter PLA service.

PROGRAMME

During the 1970s Cold War era, the Chinese leaders believed that China was facing a potential large-scale invasion by the Soviet Union's armour troops from the north border. It was concluded that the PLA armour troops, mainly comprising the aging Type 59 and Type 69 main battle tanks based on the 1960s-era technology, were not sufficient to resist such an invasion. It was decided that in addition to speed up the development of the second generation main battle tank (MBT), the defence industry should also begin to prepare for the third-generation MBT that is capable of challenging the Soviet T-72.

China obtained several T-72 tanks from the Middle East in the late 1970s and used them as a pattern in developing its own new MBT. The original proposal was to develop an MBT based on the hull design of the T-72, and fit it with Western 120 mm smoothbore gun and advanced fire control equipment. This plan was later temporally halted due to the boycotts by the Western countries after 1989.

After the 1991 Gulf War, the development of the third-generation MBT was reactivated. The first prototype of the third generation MBT, designated as Type 90-II, was revealed to the public in 1991. The Type 90-II did not enter the PLA service due to unsatisfying performance, but its improved variant integrated with Western powerpack and fire-control system was exported to the Pakistani Army as Al Khalid (MBT-2000).

In 1995 Russia demonstrated its latest variant of the T-80U tank to the Chinese leaders. This resulted in a major redesign of the third-generation MBT, which later led to the Type 98 MBT.

VARIANTS

Type 90-II: The original prototype with a 1200 hp engine (Perkins CV12-1200) and digital fire control system.

Type 90-IIA: Intended for Pakistan with the french 1,500 hp Unidiesel V series engine, but not delivered because of US-Indian pressure caused France to join embargo of Pakistan for its nuke testing.

Type 90-IIM (AL-Khalid): Replacement for Type 90-IIA, 1,200 hp ukranian 6TD engine used to create Al-Khalid license production tank.

DESIGN FEATURES

The Type 90-II is not a totally new design with around 45% of its components coming from current designs. This can be broken down as follows: 10% from the Type 59, 15% from the Type 69, and 20% from the Type 85/88C; the remaining 55% being new components.

The layout of the Type 90-II is conventional, driver's compartment at the front, fighting compartment/turret in the centre, and power pack in the rear. The complete powerpack assembly can be removed in around 30 minutes and in field conditions. Suspension is of the conventional torsion bar type and there are six rubber-tyred roadwheels on each side, the drive sprocket at the rear.

The turret and hull are of all-welded steel armour construction. A layer of composite armour has been added to the front arc and maximum thicknesses are estimated to be around 600 mm on the turret front, and around 450 mm on the glacis plate. The armour package is of modular design, enabling damaged sections to be replaced or upgrades installed throughout service life. Explosive reactive armour (ERA) can be fitted if required.

ARMAMENT: Main armament consists of a fully-stabilised 125 mm auto-fed smoothbore gun capable of firing various types of ammunition including high explosive, high explosive fragmentation and APFSDS. 39 rounds are carried.

Both commander and gunner have roof-mounted stabilised sights fitted with either day/image intensification or day/thermal channels, a laser rangefinder and an auto tracker facility. A computerised fire control system is also fitted as standard.

Second armarment includes a 7.62 mm co-axial machine gun and a 12.7 mm air defence machine gun mounted on the commander's cupola.

PROTECTION: The hull and turret are protected by composite armour plating. The Type 90-II was the first Chinese tank developed from the start with a 'systems approach', that is, it was intended to have components replaced and upgraded. The new turret design contains composite armour in the frontal arc that is designed to be exchangeable when better armour becomes available. Two sets of six-barrel smoke/HE grenade launchers are mounted on the turret sides.

PROPULSION: At least four diesel powerpacks have been tested on the Type 90-II/Al Khalid MBT, including two supplied by the Perkins Engine Company and each comprising of a CV-12 Condor diesel of 1,200 hp (as fitted in the Challenger 1 and 2), coupled to a French SESM ESM 500 automatic transmission (as installed in the Leclerc).

The Pakistan-manufactured Al Khalid MBT is reported to be fitted with a Ukraine built 6TD diesel (as fitted in the T-80UD). Claimed to be the most compact MBT diesel engines in the world, the 6TD series are two-stroke, liquid cooled and supercharged with horizontal cylinders and opposed pistons. At its current battle weight of 46 tons, the engine gives the Al Khalid MBT a 26 hp/tonne power-to-weight ratio and a max speed of 72 km/h.

[Squadron Leader]

The deep roots of the Al-Khalid are from the Chinese T-90 Tank; it was given to Pakistan, Pakistan later improved it with a French engine, but due to political and cost restraints Pakistan took the Ukrainian engine, later calling the tank
THE MIGHTY AL KHALID TANK

[ArtilleryFire]

:hitwall Hey AKWAFRESH! :rt<< :rt<< :rt<< :hitwall :hitwall
[

B]Almost every-semi modern tank have this ability, just how useful is an auto track anyways? why are you tracking instead of shooting!![/B]

ARE YOU MAD YOU WOULD FIRE WITHOUT TRACKING LIKE A BLIND I THINK YOU KNOW NOTHING.

Both tanks have basically the same gun.

NOT ALL TANKS HAVE A SAME GUN. MAD!!!!

not really homemade, the tank design is from the Chinese Type-90, engine is from Ukraine, the main gun is either from China or Ukraine.

I DIDNT SAY THAT EACH SCREW OF IT'S MADE IN Pakistan. TAKE A EXAMPLE THAT IF YOU BAKE SOMETHING OR MAKE FOOD THE INGREDIANTS YOU USE ARE NOT MADE IN HOME YOU HAVE TO PURCHASE FROM THE MARKET BUT YOU ALWAYS SAY THAT YOU HAVE MADE THIS BY YOURSELF. OK FOOL.

[Peacemaker]

What ingredients did Pakistan make?

The tank design is from the eighties. The project was dropped due to poor performance, but restarted to help Pakistan Army.

The information available to me shows the following:

1. PLA was not happy with MBT2000. They decided to build T-98 based on Russian T-80UD.

2. Al-Khalid and MBT2000 is based on T-72 design. so, how it outperforms Russian T-90?

3. You are dependent on Ukraine for engine parts and servicing.

4. Does anyone know what percentage of the tank is constructed in Pakistan and what components are coming from China?

[ArtilleryFire]

AL-KHALID is a good tanK it has a crew of three men.and it reload is aotumatic while indians armour is dull they got T-72 which is very old and they are not modified now they are modifying them indians are very scared of our AL-KHALID then they got T-90s and like i said before that AL-KHALID is much more better than T-90.

[Peacemaker]

Artillery-Fire,

Chinese who designed the tank claim it is equivalent to T-72. They say their T-98 is similar to Russian/Ukraine T-80UD.

Russians who are original designers claim T-90 is better than T-72 and T-80/85.

You claim Al-Khalid is better than T-90.

I am confused. Who is right, Pakistan, Chinese or Russians?

As you say, India is upgrading their tanks. What parts are they upgrading?

Thanks

[ArtilleryFire]

Well as i said that AL-KHALID is best than T-90 tell me that the capabilities that i have tell you before are in T-90s or not. And for your information Pakistan have designed the tank China have only helped to make it. So Pakistan will know its tank capabilities than China,Russia.


:pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg)

[ArtilleryFire]

After T-90s comes India's Arjun. Its a fact that Al-Khalid is much more better than Arjun which took 25 years to developed and still not completed.While Al-Khalid was developed in a very short period.



[SIZE=14][COLOR=red]WHITH AL_KHALIDS Pakistan HAS EDGE OVER INDIAS ARMOUR


WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT???



:pkflg) :<(< :pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg) :SNIPER: :SNIPER: :SNIPER: :SNIPER: :SNIPER: :SNIPER: :SNIPER: :pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg)

[kilo19]

hey guys check out the link ......... a few lines say all abt the AK .....

Alkhalid

check it out ...... now its not the Pakistanis or the Chinese sayin this

[ArtilleryFire]

:hitwall :hitwall WHO SAID THAT AL-KHALID ARE NOT WORTHY THAN T-90 :hitwall :hitwall

WELL HERE IS A PROOF OF AL-KHALID EDGE OVER T-90:-

Their is a problem with the night vision devices of T-90 it iswas expected to be resolved in a couple of months, optimistic defence production managers said. A team of experts from Russia and France were working on this with the Indian team. The T-90 MBTs were turning `blind' in the desert heat since the thermal imagers were unable to withstand the 50 plus centigrade temperatures of the Thar desert.

This shows that AL-Khalids are the best!!!!!!!!

Earlier, talking to presspersons, Mr. Rajagopal said the Defence Ministry was conducting an internal inquiry into the supply of defective shells to the Army. The Army had rejected a consignment of shells for the T-72 battle tanks recently saying that these were defective. The shells were difficult to target and reportedly had difficultly in hitting even a 20-foot target. "No separate committee has been formed. But we are looking into this," said the Joint Secretary (S), Defence Production and Supplies Department, Alok Perti.

This shows that how much indian tanks and shells are good. A T-72 cannot shoot the target at 20-foot and you are comparing Al-Khalids with T-72.





:SNIPER: :SNIPER: :pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg) :pkflg) 8cool) 8cool)

[cmmguy]

Almost every-semi modern tank have this ability, just how useful is an auto track anyways? why are you tracking instead of shooting!!
ARE YOU MAD YOU WOULD FIRE WITHOUT TRACKING LIKE A BLIND I THINK YOU KNOW NOTHING.

OMG, are you trying to say that akwa dont know about tanks ?? that too a Chinese equipment??

you gotta be MAD :(Blah :(Blah

[ArtilleryFire]

OMG, are you trying to say that akwa dont know about tanks ?? that too a Chinese equipment?? 

you gotta be MAD 

You SOB. By akwa replies every educated man would think that he is illatrate because he know nothing. And Al-Khalid is a Pakistani equipment.

So if Al-Khalid is not a Pakistani equipment so how Ajun is an indian equipment its engine is a german engine well i would say that Arjun is a Russian & German equipment painted by indians.

[omohat]

AL-Khalid tank is one of the newest and deadliest tank in the worl it has a capability to Auto-Track the enemy tanks and fire its target at night in another words it got night vision capability only French have this capability

Auto-track and night-vision are 2 completely different things. Virtually all semi-modern tanks have night vision, and even dated designs like t-59 and t-72s are being updated with night vision. Auto-Track is a pretty unique feature (I believe only LeClerc and Merkava 4 have it) but it does nothing that a well trained gunner can't do. However, in the heat of combat, it could confer an advantage, but its also something that can go wrong on the tank, so you have to make sure the gunner is well trained ayway.

The Al-Khalid tank performance is much better than the RUSSIANS T-90s

Ok how can u say that? Have you driven both tanks? Have you even driven a tank for that matter? Hell, have you even sat in a tank?? One of the things Russian tanks are renowned for is their excellent mobility. The AK does have a more powerful engine than the T-90 so it is likely that it has slightly better performance, especially in hot environments, but there is absolutely no grounds for saying that it has MUCH better performance.

Al-Khalid has been designed with 48 caliber smooth bore, auto-frettaged and chrome platted gun which can fire APFSDS, HEAT-FS and HE-FS conventional ammunation and missles.

So? The T-90 has a virtually identical gun. The only thing that is possibly in favour of the AK is that in the past Soviet manufacturing standards meant gun barrels were produced to poor tolerance levels giving poor accuracy in the field. However, this was in the past, and theres nothing to say that their barrels still have this problem. Also, AK can't fire missiles just yet although HIT is working on that one. Before someone jumps all over me, my source was the PA Capt who was showing me round his AK at Malir Cantt in Karachi, so I'd consider him a little more reliable than product brochures

The ballistic computation time is less than 1 seconds for accurate fire control third generation gating facility has been provided. The result of such a modern fire control system is, routine first round hits on standard (8 ft x 8 ft) at targets in range excess 2000 meters.

Again this is nothing exceptional. Most modern tanks achieve the same sort of hit accuracy.

The tank with its 125 mm gun has a remarkably stable performance which is provided by combination of soft recoil and excellent suspension.

THe AK gun is NOT a soft recoil gun. Its a standard 125mm gun. Can't comment on the suspension as nothing has been released about what type of suspension it uses (so i don't know how you're commenting on it)



The AK's weak point is its armour. It has excellent firepower and mobility, but armour was sacrificed to achieve this. The reactive armour will do a pretty good job against most HEAT rounds, but under 1500m the armour on the AK is going to struggle to stop most APFDS rounds. Whats even worse is that as soon as the tank is penetrated its almost certainly going to be a write off. The reason is, that spare ammo isn't stored in sealed ammo bins. Ready to fire rounds are stored in the carousel loader under the floor, but spare rounds are just stashed around the turret. Hell, the commander is practically sitting on a spare round! ( bet you thats the first round that gets loaded into the gun!) Before anyone tries to flame me saying i don't know what I'm talking about - I've sat in the tank and seen exactly where the rounds are stashed. Also, bear in mind that any design that is based on the soviet T-72 will be likely to suffer from the same problem, so I'm pretty sure the T-90 has ammo stashed around the turret. What the PA should look into is a bustle mounted auto-loader (like the LeClerc). With ammo stored in the bustle only, a penetrating hit is nowhere near as lethal.



Before anyone thinks that I don't like the AK, let me just say that despite its shortcomings i still consider it the best tank on the sub-continent. Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel the PA just took off the shelf components and integrated them into a tank that perfectly meets their requirements without breaking the bank. However, while the resulting tank is very good, it is not the revolution in armour that many ppl here are claiming it to be.

[ArtilleryFire]

Dear ommohat,
My father is in Army as a Commandig Officer.His coursemate is in a Al-Khalid unit as a Commanding Officer he told me that following things about Al-Khalid from which some i have mentioned above but now i am writing all of them so please use your mind and compare its capabilities
with T-90s etc:-
Al-Khalid is capable of targeting the enemy in the dark of night. It is the only tank that has the ability to auto-track the enemy's tanks. Only French tanks have this capability. It is also as powerful as the German tank Leopard in terms of movement. The Al-Khalid tank's performance is much better than the Russian T-90-S tank, since its designed extreme temperatures.

Features & Fire Power

Al-Khalid has been designed with a 125mm (48 caliber) smooth bore, auto-frettaged and chrome plated gun which can fire APFSDS, HEAT-FS and HE-FS conventional ammunition and missiles. It is equipped with muzzle reference system, and bi-axis stabilization. Elevation and azimuth control is achieved by electro-hydraulic power drives. The tank is also equipped with a 7.62 mm-coaxial MG, 12.7mm externally mounted MG that can be fired with the hatch closed and grenade launchers.
The gunner is provided with a dual magnification day sight and the commander with a panoramic Hunter Killer sight for all around independent surveillance. Both sights are bi-axis image stabilized and have independent laser range finders.

Multi-Target Engagement Abilities

The commander has the ability of acquiring a target independently while the gunner is engaging a previously selected one.

Rate Of Fire

The automatic ammunition handling system, with 24 round ready-to-fire magazine further supplements the Hunter-Killer capability of the tank which can load at a rate of 8 rounds a minute. The presence of automatic target tracking system enables the tank to achieve a very high first round hit probability even while firing on a moving target while moving itself.
Night Vision
Night vision for the gunner and commander is achieved through a dual magnification thermal imaging sight. The powerful fire control system computer processes all the firing information, which includes inputs from its ten sensors and is integrated to both sights.
Fire Control
The ballistic computation time is less than one second. For accurate fire control, third generation gating facility has been provided. The result of such a modern fire control system is, routine first round hits on standard (8 ft x 8 ft) targets at ranges in excess of 2000 meters.
The tank with its 125mm gun has a remarkably stable platform, which is provided by a combination of soft recoil and an excellent suspension.

Wrapped around the fire control system are the ergonomic crew positions and controls. The tank commander, gunner and driver can virtually reach all their controls with little movement.
Engine
A 1200 horsepower super charged, diesel engine and semi-automatic transmission, provides mobility. An under Armour auxiliary power supply unit provides a significant reduction in fuel consumption during 'Silent Watch' and maintenance operations, as auxiliary functions can be performed without main engine power. The highly reliable suspension consists of torsion bars, hydraulic dampers and buffers that afford a high level of comfort for its crew.
Combat Weight & Speed
Besides a low silhouette, it is considerably smaller as compared to other modern tanks. Its maximum weight of 46 tons provides a double advantage; it is strategically easily deployed and is more agile. Its power to weight ratio, in excess of 26 HP/ton, gives the vehicle a maximum speed of around 70 km/h, acceleration from 0~ 30 km/h in less than 10 seconds.

Its low mean maximum pressure and the excellent ride given by its suspension make Al-Khalid an ideal vehicle to fight in any theatre of operation.
Armour & Protection
Al-Khalid has been designed to provide maximum protection and efficiency for its 3 men crew. Protection is afforded by use of modular composite Armour and explosive reactive Armour. Al-Khalid also offers enhanced protection through NBC, an effective Thermal Smoke Generation, Automatic Fire Extinguishing and Explosion Suppression Systems.
Limited Under Water Capabilities
The submerging system allows it to operate 5 meters under water. Navigation is assisted by the use of Global Positioning and Inertial Navigation Systems.



i certainly dont think that all of these are in T-90 etc.

Their is a problem with the night vision devices of T-90 it is expected to be resolved in a couple of months, optimistic defence production managers said. A team of experts from Russia and France were working on this with the Indian team. The T-90 MBTs were turning `blind' in the desert heat since the thermal imagers were unable to withstand the 50 plus centigrade temperatures of the Thar desert.

These are the words of a Indian Defence official which i have read from a site
which clearly shows the T-90s reliability in desert while Al-Khalid can meet severe desert conditions while T-90s dont.

I wish you would understand it !!!!

[omohat]

[QUOTE]Al-Khalid is capable of targeting the enemy in the dark of night. It is the only tank that has the ability to auto-track the enemy's tanks. Only French tanks have this capability. [/QUOTE]

T-90 also has night vision sights. As for auto-track it is a nice feature to have, but a well trained gunner can accomplish the same thing so its not an essential feature. Also, if you do your research on the Merkava Mk4 you'll see that it also has this feature.

[QUOTE] It is also as powerful as the German tank Leopard in terms of movement. The Al-Khalid tank's performance is much better than the Russian T-90-S tank, since its designed extreme temperatures. [/QUOTE]

Yes i know the AK was designed to function in extreme temperatures, but if you take a look at the map of Russia you'll see that Russia also has some pretty extreme temperatures. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that the T-90 can function in extreme temperatures as well. However, if you look at my original post, i did say that the AK has a better power to weight ratio which should translate into slightly better all round performance. Also, i see you compared the AK to the Leopard. It might have better performance than the Leopard but it lags far behind the Japanese Type 90 tank. The Type 90 weighs only 2 tons more (50tons) but has 1500 horsepower which easily makes it the most mobile tank in the world.

[QUOTE] Al-Khalid has been designed with a 125mm (48 caliber) smooth bore, auto-frettaged and chrome plated gun which can fire APFSDS, HEAT-FS and HE-FS conventional ammunition and missiles. It is equipped with muzzle reference system, and bi-axis stabilization. Elevation and azimuth control is achieved by electro-hydraulic power drives. The tank is also equipped with a 7.62 mm-coaxial MG, 12.7mm externally mounted MG that can be fired with the hatch closed and grenade launchers.
The gunner is provided with a dual magnification day sight and the commander with a panoramic Hunter Killer sight for all around independent surveillance. Both sights are bi-axis image stabilized and have independent laser range finders. [/QUOTE]

If you actually read up on the T-90 rather than make vague assumptions, you'll see the T-90 has virtually all of these features, right down to a seperate commanders sight (which also gives it Hunter/Killer capabilty).

[QUOTE] The commander has the ability of acquiring a target independently while the gunner is engaging a previously selected one [/QUOTE]

Since we've established above that the T-90 also has a seprate sight for the commander, then that means it also has the ability for the commander to find a target while gunner is enaging the previosuly selected one.

[QUOTE] The automatic ammunition handling system, with 24 round ready-to-fire magazine further supplements the Hunter-Killer capability of the tank which can load at a rate of 8 rounds a minute. The presence of automatic target tracking system enables the tank to achieve a very high first round hit probability even while firing on a moving target while moving itself.
Night Vision [/QUOTE]

Since both tanks use virtually the same Russian design of carousel autoloder that means rate of fire is going to be virtually identical

[QUOTE] Night vision for the gunner and commander is achieved through a dual magnification thermal imaging sight. [/QUOTE]

T-90 also has thermal imaging sights (French not Russian)

[QUOTE] The powerful fire control system computer processes all the firing information, which includes inputs from its ten sensors and is integrated to both sights. The ballistic computation time is less than one second. For accurate fire control, third generation gating facility has been provided. The result of such a modern fire control system is, routine first round hits on standard (8 ft x 8 ft) targets at ranges in excess of 2000 meters. [/QUOTE]

This is the one area where the AK has a clear edge. Soviet FCS have never been as good as wstern ones (hence their preferance for missiles).

[QUOTE] The tank with its 125mm gun has a remarkably stable platform, which is provided by a combination of soft recoil and an excellent suspension. [/QUOTE]

Firstly, the 125mm gun is not a soft recoil gun. It is the standard Soviet design 125mm gun not the soft recoil variant. Secondly can you provide some technical information on the suspension to back up your claims of its excellence?

[QUOTE] Wrapped around the fire control system are the ergonomic crew positions and controls. The tank commander, gunner and driver can virtually reach all their controls with little movement. [/QUOTE]

My impressions of the crew compartment were somwhat different. It was cozy rather than cramped, but in no way as advanced as you see on western tanks. There was no digital battlefield information management system either. Lots of inndividual dials rather than digital displays to consolidate the infomation (take a look at the Lecrerc or newer M1s). The most dangerous part about the interior was the fact that ammunition was stashed IN THE OPEN making them a severe fire hazard in the even of the tank being penetrated.

[QUOTE] A 1200 horsepower super charged, diesel engine and semi-automatic transmission, provides mobility. An under Armour auxiliary power supply unit provides a significant reduction in fuel consumption during 'Silent Watch' and maintenance operations, as auxiliary functions can be performed without main engine power. The highly reliable suspension consists of torsion bars, hydraulic dampers and buffers that afford a high level of comfort for its crew. [/QOUTE]

Agreed, it is a good engine as well as being quite compact. The torsian bar suspension is good but nothing special (the best suspension type is probably the active suspension seen on the Challenger MBT).

[QUOTE] Besides a low silhouette, it is considerably smaller as compared to other modern tanks. Its maximum weight of 46 tons provides a double advantage; it is strategically easily deployed and is more agile. Its power to weight ratio, in excess of 26 HP/ton, gives the vehicle a maximum speed of around 70 km/h, acceleration from 0~ 30 km/h in less than 10 seconds. [/QUOTE]

Agreed performance is very good, and acceleration is said to be phenomenal. However the T-72 series of tanks have never been slouches so i doubt the T-90 is far behind. One point you didnt mention is that is has the same number of forward as reverse gears and that give the AK some unique tactical advantages.

[QUOTE] Al-Khalid has been designed to provide maximum protection and efficiency for its 3 men crew. Protection is afforded by use of modular composite Armour and explosive reactive Armour. Al-Khalid also offers enhanced protection through NBC, an effective Thermal Smoke Generation, Automatic Fire Extinguishing and Explosion Suppression Systems [/QUOTE]

Did you know that even T-72s have composite armour? Usually steel layered with fibre. Just goes to show that compsosite armour alone isnt that great. The reactive armour provides good pretiection against HEAT rounds but wont be as effective against APFSDS. As for the fire suppresion system - the crew are gonna need it big time!!!!! Theres live ammunition stowed in the open in the turret!!!! Thats an explosion waiting to happen. If you want to know the danger of live ammunition in the turret in the open, take a look at what happens to T-72s. By the bye, T-90 also has composite armour, reactive armour, NBC protection, smoke generation, and fire suppresion system.

[QUOTE] which clearly shows the T-90s reliability in desert while Al-Khalid can meet severe desert conditions while T-90s dont [/QUOTE]

The Capt who was showing me around the AK mentioned that on exercise the AK was nowhere near as reliable as the T-80s were. Does that point to a reliability problem? NO!! With new equipment there is always issues that crop up shortly after deployment and that have to be fixed. In time i'm sure the AK will be as reliable if not more reliable than the T-80 but it is new equipement so there is bound to be teething problems. India is the first customer of the T-90 so its only natural that some teetching problems crop up.

So of all the features you mentioned, just about the only one the T-90 doesnt have is Auto-tracking. Doesn't exactly make it a failure as a tank does it? My personal opinion is that evenm though both tanks have similar abilities on paper, the AK is supoerior for 2 reasons. 1 - it makes use of more critcial Western systems like FCS and fire suppression. 2 - it was tailor made to meet the PA requirements whereas the T-90 was just bought off the shelf and is nowhaving to be adjusted to meet the IA requirements. However, to just write the T-90 off as inferior to the AK is a dangerous statement to make because the truth is, capability wise the 2 tanks aren't very far off at all.

[Peacemaker]

Here is T-90 specs.

It seems to me it has longer range and missile firing capability. Al-Khalid does not have this at the moment.

India is also considering investing in the Russian secret T-95 (Black Eagle) project. The T-95 tank will have main gun between 135mm and 155mm (depending on your source).

T 90S - SPECIFICATION
Crew 3
Combat weight: 46.5 tons
Engine: 4-stroke V-84MS diesel engine, 618 kW (840 hp)
Fuel tanks capacity 1,600 litres
Armament
main gun 125 mm 2A46M - smoothbore
coaxial machine gun 7.62 mm PKT
machine gun 12.7 mm NSVT-12.7 AD
assault rifle 5.45 mm AKS-74
3UBK14 weapon system with 9M119 missile
3UBK20 weapon system with 9M119M missile
Firing range 100 to 5,000 m
Ammunition
2A46M gun: 43 rounds including 22 on carousel
PKT machine gun: 2,000 cartridges
NSVT-12.7 AD machine gun: 300 cartridges
AKS-74 assault rifle: 300 cartridges
Armament stabiliser: 2E42-4
AD machine gun sight PZU-7
AD machine gun fire control system: 1ETs29 with vertical stabilisation
Communications UHF R-163-504 radio set
UHF R-163-UP radio receiver
Performance
Road range
Paved road: 650 km
Unpaved: 500 km
Ground pressure: 0.87 kg/sq cm
Refleks Missile System
Range 100 - 4,000 m
Hit probability at least 0.8
Armour penetration 700 mm
ERA penetration ensured
Guidance system: semi-automatic, laser
Time of flight to 4,000 m: 11.7 sec
Weight of missile: 23.4 kg

[omohat]

The 2 tanks have virtually identical guns which means that max range is going to be detirmined by FCS. Now the T-90 has a russian FCS while the AK has a french FCS. Seeing as in the past, russian FCS have been nowhere near as good their western counterparts, my money is going to be on the AK to score hits at 2km+ especially while moving. As for missiles, you're right the AK doesnt have this at the moment, but bear in mind 2 points. Firstly, russian tanks need missiles because their poor FCS mean they struggle to get hits at long ranges. AK doesnt have this problem. Secondly HIT is working on adapting the AK to fire missiles so it wont be long before this feature appears.

[axl]

and again:
1. the al khalid has no french fcs. but proof me wrong with a reliable source.
2. t-90 and al khalid have different guns, just based on the same design
3. your statement about why russian tanks are using atgm is wrong
4. if the ability to fire atgm is based on low hit propability, why you are saying that Pakistan is working on that feature?

regards
axl

www.kampfpanzer.de

[FASAL XJ]

whats the point comparing a T-72 to an AL-KHALID the T-72 has'nt even prooven herself once it failed in lebanon against the israli Markieva, It failed misrabily in the gulf war it failed in Yougoslavia its seen action all over the world and has'nt ever prooven itself since its introduction in 1973.

[Vaiar]

Does the Al Khalid have ammo bunkers? Is its ammo carroussel armored?

If not, the thing most likely will blow up when its hit.

[JTF-2 HOPE]

Oh crap, not this "vs." BS again.

[impaki]

al khalid is newest and dealist tank in the world, but american and british tanks are much more advance and better....my opinion....
but its good that..our tank tech. is much more better :pkflg) than india's..

[omohat]

1 - My source was a PA Capt who was showing me around the tank. According to him the FCS is a licence built design - not indengenously designed. Assuming its French is my mistake, but who else would licence us a Hunter/Killer FCS with auto-tracking? I'll retract the statement that its French since i can't provide a source to prove it, but the fact remains that its too advanced to be of indeginous design. I doubt the Chinese have a hunter-killer FCS with auto-tracking, so logically that would leave the French. But thats just an assumption and not a concrete claim.

2 - Agreed both guns are of similar design, and any differences in performance would be down to manufacturing tolerances

3 - I've seen that as an explanation several times and it does make sense as to why Russain tanks use missiles.

4 - In addition, missiles are useful against helicopters, so i would imagine that would be a good reason why HIT is looking to add that capability to AK.

[paki_ryder]

is there any video clips of al khalid in action?

[vibig]

What ingredients did Pakistan make?

The tank design is from the eighties. The project was dropped due to poor performance, but restarted to help Pakistan Army.

The information available to me shows the following:

1. PLA was not happy with MBT2000. They decided to build T-98 based on Russian T-80UD.

2. Al-Khalid and MBT2000 is based on T-72 design. so, how it outperforms Russian T-90?

3. You are dependent on Ukraine for engine parts and servicing.

4. Does anyone know what percentage of the tank is constructed in Pakistan and what components are coming from China?

Tell me which MBT currenttly in services is not base on the old model? You know nothing about how to design a new tank! All the successful design is somekind based on the old model, even the T-90 or M1A2. Oh yeah, i forgot, the Aijun is a totally different story!

Type-90 is good and the reason PLA will not product it a lot is that's the way to save the money! China don't have such big money to product all the new equipment. So they just make a small number of new stuff and save the money for the next generation design. Even Type-98 will not product a lot. The MBT will be used to replace old Type-59 is Type-88C. I should told you, you will see a new Chinese MBT very soon and you can find same thing in PLAF and PLN.

[vibig]

Artillery-Fire,

Chinese who designed the tank claim it is equivalent to T-72. They say their T-98 is similar to Russian/Ukraine T-80UD.

Russians who are original designers claim T-90 is better than T-72 and T-80/85.

You claim Al-Khalid is better than T-90.

I am confused. Who is right, Pakistan, Chinese or Russians?

As you say, India is upgrading their tanks. What parts are they upgrading?

Thanks

Really? Can you prove the link for Chinese clainm the Type-98 is equal to T-80.

I read all the chinese articles from China and they said Type-98(99) can compare to any knid of MBT is this world. Of cause it's not mean Type-98 is better than them, but have the equal chance to kill any westen tank.

BTW: The chinese man who "leak" that information is still in the jail and you can find a lot infomation about the guy and his infomation, his name or the article.


vibig

[nolies]

i have no intention of getting into ak vs t-90 thing.

just want to clear one point a lot of people take for granted. chinese tank gun tech (not the autoloader) is NOT of russian origin, not western either. in early 80's, china got german 120 mm gun tech through "unnamed third party." from that and chinese knowledge on russian guns, combined with original chinese knowhow, china developed arguably the best tank guns in the world. the result? from leaked source, with chinese composite du round, type98/99 can penetrate 960mm equivalent homogeneous steel armor in 2km distance!

u better hope the ak uses chinese gun barrel tech. O:)

on overal tank tech, china has already surpassed russia. that's y china hasn't imported any tank from russia since 80's.

[chengdusudise]

haha russia tank is really crap,dont compare russia tank oto ours

[ArtilleryFire]

One thng that Al-Khalid can meet severe desert conditions. While T-90 cannot meet severe desert condition here is a proof which i have mentioned in my last posts before.

The problem with the night vision devices of the T-90 is expected to be resolved in a couple of months, optimistic defence production managers said. A team of experts from Russia and France were working on this with the Indian team. The T-90 MBTs were turning `blind' in the desert heat since the thermal imagers were unable to withstand the 50 plus centigrade temperatures of the Thar desert

These are the statement of indian defence official.You indians said it is a tough tank build for severe condions. (w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

[thunderinaction]

The T-90 was never designed for the desert.The Russians are updrading it to the desert version(T-90S) which was requested by indians.So it will still be no match for AK.

[ArtilleryFire]

The T-90 was never designed for the desert.The Russians are updrading it to the desert version(T-90S) which was requested by indians.So it will still be no match for AK.

So if the T-90 is not designed for desert so why indians are using in deserts.So i think that india has no brain. If they got brains so they dont know how to use it prefectly.

[Peacemaker]

Vibig

This quote is from Sinodefence website. Please see my earlier posting for more info.

In 1995 Russia demonstrated its latest variant of the T-80U tank to the Chinese leaders. This resulted in a major redesign of the third-generation MBT, which later led to the Type 98 MBT.

I agree with you that Chinese are making more modifications to T-98. This tank is still in developmental stage and has not met all the specified parameters.

As for the night vision...Artilleryfire. Intially, India's DRDO decided that they don't want Russian night visions as they can make it themselves.

They failed in developing the system. India invited tenders from oveseas.

France won the tender to install the night vision, but they are having difficulting intergrating the systems. Russians have been called in.

This happens when civil servants do Army's job.

[ArtilleryFire]

If india is making night visions himself so it would not be completed as the Arjun is not completed. (w00t) (w00t) (w00t) (w00t) :Dbanana :Dbanana

[Peacemaker]

Artillery Fire

I think the difference between the countries is Management.

India's DRDO managers want to develop everything internally. When they fail they become laughing stock inside India and abroad.

After internal failure...Indian taxpayer suffer even more. The Defence ministry approaches the overseas suppliers who charge us much more because they know we are desperate.

Pakistan is much better than in India in understanding what it can develop and what it can buy cheaper abroad.

[ArtilleryFire]

Vibig

This quote is from Sinodefence website. Please see my earlier posting for more info.

In 1995 Russia demonstrated its latest variant of the T-80U tank to the Chinese leaders. This resulted in a major redesign of the third-generation MBT, which later led to the Type 98 MBT.

I agree with you that Chinese are making more modifications to T-98. This tank is still in developmental stage and has not met all the specified parameters.

As for the night vision...Artilleryfire. Intially, India's DRDO decided that they don't want Russian night visions as they can make it themselves.

They failed in developing the system. India invited tenders from oveseas.

France won the tender to install the night vision, but they are having difficulting intergrating the systems. Russians have been called in.

This happens when civil servants do Army's job.

What would happen if two makers are making one equipment the answer would be the equipment would be spoiled or destroyed.In other words there would be a fight that our one is good our one is more affective and accurate. :megalol :megalol :megalol ::devill :red><

[ArtilleryFire]

Now check this out now this time nor Pakistanis nor China had said about Al-Khalid this time the indians have accepted Al-Khalid ideal capabilities:-

The Hindustan Times newspaper of August 13 had this to say: “Let me begin with the Al-Khalid tank. Even a cursory look at its capabilities shows that it is an armoured corps commander’s dream. In its offensive capabilities and speed on level ground, it meets every requirement that the Indian army’s most up-to-date GSQR (General Staff Quality Requirement) for India’s MBT (Main Battle Tank) project more than a decade ago (16 years). More important, it has a fire control system that enables it to acquire and shoot at targets while moving at high speeds over rough terrain.The fact that all this capability has been packed in a tank with only a 1200 HP engine, means that it has an overall weight of 40 tonnes or thereabout against the Arjun’s 55 tons (Indian tank under development for the past 16 years). This will give it a lower profile than the typical MBT and make it harder to hit.”



This is proof of Al-Khalids supremancy over Indians MBTs!!!!!

:pkflg) :<(< :pkflg) :pkflg)

[Peacemaker]

Artillery-fire

Please do not compare Al-Khalid with Arjun.

I never said Al-Khalid is a poor tank or is not better than Arjun. The debate is whether it is better than T-90S.

Arjun lost it relevance when T-90S was selected. The production for 124 Arjuns has not even been started yet. The order was placed (under Political pressure) nearly two years ago.

The real question is whether Al-Khalid is better than T-90S.

In my opinion at this moment "No".

The T-90S has longer range, carries more fuel, more ammo and has anti-tank missile firing capability.

The T-90S can fire missiles with range between 4000m to 5000m (depending on your missile selection).

This mean T-90S can knock Al-Khalid before it comes into AK range.

India's future armour will consist mainly of T-90S and upgraded T-72's.

The next important development for Indian Army is joint venture on T-95 (Black Eagle).

[thunderinaction]

Artillery-fire

Please do not compare Al-Khalid with Arjun.

I never said Al-Khalid is a poor tank or is not better than Arjun. The debate is whether it is better than T-90S.

Arjun lost it relevance when T-90S was selected. The production for 124 Arjuns has not even been started yet. The order was placed (under Political pressure) nearly two years ago.

The real question is whether Al-Khalid is better than T-90S.

In my opinion at this moment "No".

The T-90S has longer range, carries more fuel, more ammo and has anti-tank missile firing capability.

The T-90S can fire missiles with range between 4000m to 5000m (depending on your missile selection).

This mean T-90S can knock Al-Khalid before it comes into AK range.

India's future armour will consist mainly of T-90S and upgraded T-72's.

The next important development for Indian Army is joint venture on T-95 (Black Eagle).

The AK can also fire anti-tank missiles.Check this in the HIT section.