1821 replies to this topic

[GreenBeret]

forgive me if im annoying anybody but...im really confused as to what the current inventory of f-16s Pakistan has. could someone please sum up the last 10 years of f-16 procurement i would really apreciate it...and ofcourse info on future orders.

all the numbers being thrown around are confusing me..:-/ thanks bros

post # 1668

[ABBASIA]

forgive me if im annoying anybody but...im really confused as to what the current inventory of f-16s Pakistan has. could someone please sum up the last 10 years of f-16 procurement i would really apreciate it...and ofcourse info on future orders.

all the numbers being thrown around are confusing me..:-/ thanks bros

(40) - (8 destroyed) + (14 more given) - (1 destroyed) = 45

[Munir]

(40) - (8 destroyed) + (14 more given) - (1 destroyed) = 45

10 EDA
18 block 52

Total : 73 all block 52 avionics/weapons

[Aliph Ahmed]

10 EDA
18 block 52

Total : 73 all block 52 avionics/weapons

Wont the addition of avionics and MLUed have a negative effect on the block 15 F-16s as they are not getting more powerfull engines?

[Saqr]

Wont the addition of avionics and MLUed have a negative effect on the block 15 F-16s as they are not getting more powerfull engines?

I don't think it would be a disadvantage for the Block-15s to receive MLU...after all, they would gain a longer-range radar, data-link, JHMCS, capability to use JDAM, 5th-gen WVRAAM, etc...it would make them excellent air superiority fighters.

[PAKISTANI4LIFE]

and night time targeting?

so would the MLU upgrades make the block 15, block 52s??
how many have already been upgraded? n whats EDA?

[Saqr]

and night time targeting?

so would the MLU upgrades make the block 15, block 52s??
how many have already been upgraded? n whats EDA?

Basically yeah, but minus the range and payload of the Block-52+...don't think a completed MLU has been handed over to PAF yet.  I think the first couple MLUs will come shortly after or before the first batch of Block-52+ later this month.  Lockheed Martin was recently awarded a contract to supply 35 MLU kits for PAF F-16s, so it's clear that the current F-16 program is proceeding on track.

EDA = Excess Defense Articles, used American military equipment - such as used F-16s and Cobras - that are available to Major non-NATO countries like Pakistan for free, but the PAF/PA/PN will have to pay for refurbishment and upgrades.  For example, PAF can pick up a dozen or more used F-16C/D airframes for free, but it will have to pay for the avionics upgrades, radar, etc.

[PAF2010]

Wont the addition of avionics and MLUed have a negative effect on the block 15 F-16s as they are not getting more powerfull engines?

F-16A/Bs already have more than enough thrust with their PW 220E turbofans (106 KT Military thrust)  giving the aircraft a TWR of 1.2.

F-16A/Bs are light weight fighters with an empty weight of 7070 kg whereas F-16C/Ds have empty weight of 8700 kg thus the more powerful engines (PW-229 providing 129 KT military thrust)

The addition of avionics do not have a weight penalty as they would be "replacing" existing hardware which is indeed heavier being of the 1970s technology !

[aliyusuf]

Actually the F-16A/B Block-15 have the Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-200 turbofan, rated at
Dry: ----------->12,240 lb.s.t.
Full Military: -->14,670 lb.s.t.
Full Aft.Brn: -->23,830 lb.s.t.

It is supposed to be the best dogfighter of all the versions.

After MLU, it's manueverability coupled with the Block-52 avionics, it would become a very capable fighter which ...

1) Be as good as the Block-52 in BVR A2A role
2) Could be even slightly better than the Block-52 in WVR A2A role (esp. for dogfights)
3) Will have the same capability as the Block-52 in A2G weapons delivery
4) Will have the same JCHMS and Link-16 as the Block-52
5) Will have lesser endurance than the Block-52
6) Will have lesser payload than the Block-52
7) Will have lesser mission range than the Block-52

Pakistan has currently opted to upgrade 35 of it's existing fleet for MLU. But it also has the option to avail 11 more upgrades to MLU. Which are quite likely to be availed.

Regards

[tank131]

Supposedly the PAF demanded that MLU be carried out in Turkey

[Munir]

According to Pakdef the option of 18 more block52 is done deal with some extra MLU kits and weapons. PAF will have 90+ block52 level F16's.

[aamirzs]

Supposedly the PAF demanded that MLU be carried out in Turkey

This would be great for us, I know Turkey will go extra mile for us.

[haroons222]

This would be great for us, I know Turkey will go extra mile for us.

So not to sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist:P...but why do the threaten us with severe consequences and yet arm us with these fighters?And that too after the 90s when we were closer than we are today?

Is it the Iraq-Iran strategy, arming us to narrow the gap in numbers for an eventual war w, hamsaya?

[aamirzs]

There are always two side of the news, one for public and other behind close doors ... behind close door they all friends.

So not to sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist:P...but why do the threaten us with severe consequences and yet arm us with these fighters?And that too after the 90s when we were closer than we are today?

Is it the Iraq-Iran strategy, arming us to narrow the gap in numbers for an eventual war w, hamsaya?

[tank131]

Behind closed doors they are not friends.  There is a master/peasant relationship.   The reason for arming Pakistan is 2 reasons.  To maintain control over Pakistan in the sense that, it will still be dependent on US for part of its military because in every other branch, Pakistan has cut the US systems out and only maintained them in the airforce.  Another reason is that while India is being used as a counterweight to China, the US doesnt want it to get too out of hand.  They want a controlled burn rather than a raging wildfire, so like India is being used against China, Pakistan will be maintained to make sure India doesnt overstep her master's bounds.  Pakistan will be the stick.  Never enough to actually threaten India outright, but enough to give it one hell of a bloody nose and potential to be armed up to the teeth to take it out.

[Best of the Best]

Behind closed doors they are not friends.  There is a master/peasant relationship.   The reason for arming Pakistan is 2 reasons.  To maintain control over Pakistan in the sense that, it will still be dependent on US for part of its military because in every other branch, Pakistan has cut the US systems out and only maintained them in the airforce.  Another reason is that while India is being used as a counterweight to China, the US doesnt want it to get too out of hand.  They want a controlled burn rather than a raging wildfire, so like India is being used against China, Pakistan will be maintained to make sure India doesnt overstep her master's bounds.  Pakistan will be the stick.  Never enough to actually threaten India outright, but enough to give it one hell of a bloody nose and potential to be armed up to the teeth to take it out.

I agree with your 2nd part of the post, but another reason americans won't create problems regarding the F-16's is that we have other equal or better options available to us via through China and they know that damn well, another reason J-10 wasn't rushed into was that PAF has a big bargaining chip the americans knew if they didn't sell the new F-16C/D's and didnt approve the MLU upgrades PAF would have simply taken all its business to China and americans wouldn't have any influence on Pakistani military the only thing they could black mail was through aid.  

According to my sources China was willing to fiance 3 squadron worth of J-10's to Pakistan on long term loans, the only reason PAF has gone for it at this moment is that, they are extremely busy with multiple projects, JF-17, Mirages Rose being upgraded with AAR probes about 42 Mirages will get this capability, Erieye AEW&C, Chinese AWACS. IL-78 AAR, F-16 upgrades training and induction of 18 new F-16block52+ (the other 18 optional will also be exercised)  training for F-16A/B MLU pilots going to US and Turkey for that. if PAF wasn't so preoccupied he assured me it would have went for it ASAP but according to him its good as the aircraft matures and more domestic products are available for it, i.e power plant.

[haroons222]

I agree with your 2nd apart of the post, but another reason americans won't create problems regarding the F-16's is that we have other equal or better options available to us via through China and they know that damn well, another reason J-10 wasn't rushed into was that PAF has a big bargaining chip the americans knew if they didn't sell the new F-16C/D's and didnt approve the MLU upgrades PAF would have simply taken all its business to China and americans wouldn't have any influence on Pakistani military the only thing they could black mail was through aid.  

According to my sources China was willing to fiance 3 squadron worth of J-10's to Pakistan on long term loans, the only reason PAF has gone for it at this moment is that, they are extremely busy with multiple projects, JF-17, Mirages Rose being upgraded with AAR probes about 42 Mirages will get this capability, Erieye AEW&C, Chinese AWACS. IL-78 AAR, F-16 upgrades training and induction of 18 new F-16block52+ (the other 18 optional will also be exercised)  training for F-16A/B MLU pilots going to US and Turkey for that. if PAF wasn't so preoccupied he assured me it would have went for it ASAP but according to him its good as the aircraft matures and more domestic products are available for it, i.e power plant.

I guess PAF still wants to get as much out of the U.S. in the shape of F-16s before they turn to the j-10...coz after that it might be harder.

So we are still a proxy...sad.I actually think it would have ended their game if India,China and Pak could have overcome their difference(Kashmir) and it would be a nightmare situation for the emperials...(India-Chinda-Pak-Russia-Iran-Central Asia-bloc)....thats the more logical thing to do, but too many sentiments and a thorny issue involved.I'd rather make peace with a neighbour than have nukes pointed at them on the behest of someone 10,000 miles away, and not sincere with us at all.

[Best of the Best]

I guess PAF still wants to get as much out of the U.S. in the shape of F-16s before they turn to the j-10...coz after that it might be harder.

So we are still a proxy...sad.I actually think it would have ended their game if India,China and Pak could have overcome their difference(Kashmir) and it would be a nightmare situation for the emperials...(India-Chinda-Pak-Russia-Iran-Central Asia-bloc)....thats the more logical thing to do, but too many sentiments and a thorny issue involved.I'd rather make peace with a neighbour than have nukes pointed at them on the behest of someone 10,000 miles away, and not sincere with us at all.

I disagree with your 1st paragraph, if PAF wanted it could have moved on from F-16 to other platforms at least from what i know PAF had two options avaiable to it i.e the J-10 and the Rafale the french had given us an option to buy JF-17 packages + Rafale ( but the rafale would have been a joint purchase with UAE from what i know), the reason PAF went for the F-16's was that it knows the plane inside and out infrastructure was always available just had to be upgraded so it was a logical choice..... the only difference is the black mail card of the US has reduced due to excellent Chinese options available to PAF, seeing how rapidly PAF is upgrading its self it was the best possible choice, although J-10 could have been purchased but it would have strained PAF many folds at this point and time.

PAF currently has 49 F-16A/B, 18 F-16C/D block 52+ are on their way the option of 18 more F-16's C/D will be exercised and from what i know the remaing 14 F-16's with the USN aggressor squadron wont be taken, instead PAF will get block 40/50 F-16 from ANG reserves or the current USAF stock and those too will get upgrades.

that gives PAF 99 quite capable F-16's, from what i know another squadron might  eventually be raised to bring the numbers to pre 1990 110 to 115 F-16's difference is these F-16's will be one of the best any air force can imagine.

Add to that 250 JF-17 along with quite a decent number of J-10's and you have got one of the meanest air forces in the world.... post 2015 indian superiority diminishes over PAF especially interms of Quality but from what i know the Quantity wouldn't make a big difference either since PAF eventually plans to have a fleet of around 500 multirole jets in its fleet compared to 800 of indian airforce given our airspace length its more then enough to give worst possible nightmares to india.

i rather have 10,000 nukes pointed at me then have india as an ally, no matter how much milk you feed a snake at the end of the day it will bite you irrespective of the fact how kind your to it.

[Munir]

At the moment PAF has very good pilots but not so good planes. But exact how many nation can compete with the next airforce (2-5 years)?

2 Il78 refuellers
4 Saab 2000
4 ZDK10
Huge ground based radarsystem linked with everything
99 block52 level (either upgraded and 36 new) F16
150-250 BVR capable inhouse developed and improved JF17
36-48 FC20
Large number of upgraded Mirages

I don't think it would be an easy task for any opponent. As ACM said, it is hard to suprise PAF.

[Saqr]

Though I'm no longer a supporter of F-16 purchases, one cannot deny that PAF still has room to acquire more new and used F-16s over the next few years...the fleet can easily cross 100.  That said, there will be additional upgrades/retrofits for F-16s in the next 4-5 years, such AESA radars such as Northrop Grumman's SABR and Raytheon's RACR.  In other words, PAF's F-16s can be brought well into 4+ generation standards, if they're not there already (with JHMCS, Link-16, etc).  

Regarding FC-20, please read through Richard Fisher's recent report on China's aviation advances (link), it states that J-10B is well on its way to being a 4+/4.5 generation fighter.  By some reports it's said that PAF could acquire as many as 150 FC-20s, these coupled with 100+ F-16s and 250(+) JF-17...all 4+ gen.

[Dizasta]

^^ I also agree with the numbers, it would be reasonably justifiable to go for (150) FC-20s standing alongside (250) JF-17s. This would truely bring Pakistan Air Force far ahead of the enemy in terms of servicability, logistics support and higher rate of sorties. Higher servicability and sorties rate counts alot for during war and is also one of the determining factors in the outcome of that war. Having fewer platform types allows better logistical support for the Pakistan Air Force and it is all about being cost effective and having cutting edge fighters at the same time. Eventhough the enemy currently is on its way of establishing a fleet of (280) Su-30 Flankers and (200) Generation Four Fighters (Fulcrum-C, Rafale, Typhoon, Fighting Falcon and Super Hornet). Their main cause serious concern is the logistical support maintaining several different platforms like Russian Flanker/Fulcrum/Flogger/Fishbed, French Mirage, British Hawk, Anglo-French Jaguars.

[tank131]

With ~100 F-16, 250 JF-17s, and 50 J-10B backed by 4 Erieye and 4 ZDK-03by 2015-2016, PAF will be formidable once again.  There are a few projects however, that PAF should undertake still.

1) Join a 5th Gen fighter program with China
2) Develop a Electronic Warfare version of JF-17 for use as a jamming escort and Wild Weasel specialist
3) Develop its own datalinks to facilitate better communication between the western and chinese aircraft.
4) Co-Develop/Co-Produce the TAI TIHA-B (MALE) UAV, which would give the PAF a predator class UAV for strikes.
5) Obtain more transport and strategic lift capability.

[Munir]

With ~100 F-16, 250 JF-17s, and 50 J-10B backed by 4 Erieye and 4 ZDK-03by 2015-2016, PAF will be formidable once again.  There are a few projects however, that PAF should undertake still.

1) Join a 5th Gen fighter program with China
2) Develop a Electronic Warfare version of JF-17 for use as a jamming escort and Wild Weasel specialist
3) Develop its own datalinks to facilitate better communication between the western and chinese aircraft.
4) Co-Develop/Co-Produce the TAI TIHA-B (MALE) UAV, which would give the PAF a predator class UAV for strikes.
5) Obtain more transport and strategic lift capability.

1. Doing
2. You do not need a light plane for that. You eed atleast Fc20. Probably FC20 will get that version.
3. Copyright problems. Will be solved by ground stations being linked.
4. Armed UAV is being developed. Next year.
5. For what? Zero depth. Sectors are well defended. And remember. You have the opponent next to you. Not on the other side of the world. Those C130 will do for next decade.

[Saqr]

1.  Regarding a 5th generation fighter program, this is probably on its way soon - i.e. next 3-4 years.  This time around I would argue that PAF has a number of options other than China, such as U.S.-Turkey (F-35), South Korea (KFX) and Sweden (Saab's project).  However, it is clear that China will remain the most probably partner/source by a very long shot, but there are still other prospects.  Nonetheless, lets assume that PAF will cooperate with a Chinese firm.  In his recent report, Richard Fisher mentioned the possibility of a medium-weight Chinese 5th generation fighter that would be comparable to F-35, and also serve as the lo-end for a 5th generation Hi/Lo mix.  IMO if such a program exists, then we can expect PAF to express interest in acquiring it for its own fleet.

2.  We'll see more EW/ECM kits for fighters similar to F-16D, in addition to FC-20 I wouldn't be surprised if we see JF-17 in this format as well.

3.  Although it was mentioned that there will no data-fusion between Chinese and Western systems, in the long-run, we should expect to see a merger via an indigenously developed data-link interface.  The threat-concerns around Pakistan will only get worse, hence measures towards complete consolidation should be expected.

4.  Pakistan is participating in the TIHA program, and that we can expect to continue into its future variants.  However, Pakistan also has its own Burraq armed-UAV program under NESCOM I believe.

5.  Agreed.  PAF has the option to acquire more C-130 and IL-76/78, but it'll probably be open to future Chinese aircraft such as the Y-9 and their C-17-equivalent when they enter production.  Strategic-lift and air transport are vital, logistical capacities must be strengthened significantly across all lines.

[Aliph Ahmed]

Pakistan needs to start investing every penny of hers into Chinese systems.

Oh I forgot, Chinese dont give out commissions. Sorry.

[tank131]

Aliph, investing every penny in China will lead to similar outcome as the US partnerships of the past.  Pakistan needs to spread what little resources it has to a few reliable partners, acquire technology, know-how, and eventually build its own sectors up.

Munir, despite the lack of depth and the fact that India is next door, Strategic Airlift capabilities are still very important.  Actually the proximity to hostile nations makes mobility all the more important.  Pakistan is severely lacking in its ability to move large pieces of equipments, soldiers, and material over long distances with any speed.  Such capabilities make fighting more effective as supply lines are shorter and more reliable/efficient, and also aid in civilian projects/operations such as relief work following natural disasters.  Pakistan needs both fixed wing Stategic (C17 class) and heavy (C-130) class (C-130 class would be more important at this point) aircraft.  It also needs heavy lift choppers in the class of super stallion or chinook...the Z-8F (w/ 5000kg load or 27 soldiers) would potentially be a good option for the future (for heavy lift) with Z-15 (for medium).

[SurvivoR]

Totally agree with tank131 on this... Remember the success of the Mongol empire was due to the faster Mobility of its forces than its adversaries. It holds true to this day. Faster deployment means quick action/reaction.

[Simpleton]

Agree with both posts above.  I've always hoped to see a Muslim nation with such capability, (apart from Turkey, none come to mind).  Besides the important domestic civilian aid benefits and the obvious military benefits, It would allow Pakistan to be a bigger international player.  The potential to move tanks etc., troops on a short notice to trouble spots regionally or at least in the Middle East (if you know what I mean)  would also aid in our overall security--like developing nukes that reach the same region do.  Beside, it is my hope (and unfortunately the way things are it will remain so) that eventually nations such as ours and others in the OIC with such capabilities would deploy under the OIC banner, instead of the UN banner at least in predominantly Muslim nations where UN aid work or projects are underway.

God forbid another "Bosnia" were to occur we wouldn't have to rely on the ineffectual UN to take action, also, the existence of such a capability might even temper the actions of Israelis when dealing with the Palestinians and trying to snuggle up to the Indians.

In the same vein, I would love to see a similar development in our merchant navy fleet and in the Navy as well.

Of course, the PAF planners know what they need to do, after all Pakistani military needed a lot of work to keep it up to standard in the new world environment, and it appears they're going to accomplish what they need to do in  a very planned and methodical manner in lieu of observing the current acquisitions.

[haroons222]

Agree with both posts above.  I've always hoped to see a Muslim nation with such capability, (apart from Turkey, none come to mind).  Besides the important domestic civilian aid benefits and the obvious military benefits, It would allow Pakistan to be a bigger international player.  The potential to move tanks etc., troops on a short notice to trouble spots regionally or at least in the Middle East (if you know what I mean)  would also aid in our overall security--like developing nukes that reach the same region do.  Beside, it is my hope (and unfortunately the way things are it will remain so) that eventually nations such as ours and others in the OIC with such capabilities would deploy under the OIC banner, instead of the UN banner at least in predominantly Muslim nations where UN aid work or projects are underway.

God forbid another "Bosnia" were to occur we wouldn't have to rely on the ineffectual UN to take action, also, the existence of such a capability might even temper the actions of Israelis when dealing with the Palestinians and trying to snuggle up to the Indians.

In the same vein, I would love to see a similar development in our merchant navy fleet and in the Navy as well.

Of course, the PAF planners know what they need to do, after all Pakistani military needed a lot of work to keep it up to standard in the new world environment, and it appears they're going to accomplish what they need to do in  a very planned and methodical manner in lieu of observing the current acquisitions.

An international Islamic univ funded by Pak,Turkey,Iran,Malaysia and Indonesia, with combined resources, strengths and brain power would be a nice idea....build such a place centrally(Pakistan:)) and bring the best of our minds to this place of learning.

[Munir]

Aliph, investing every penny in China will lead to similar outcome as the US partnerships of the past.  Pakistan needs to spread what little resources it has to a few reliable partners, acquire technology, know-how, and eventually build its own sectors up.

Munir, despite the lack of depth and the fact that India is next door, Strategic Airlift capabilities are still very important.  Actually the proximity to hostile nations makes mobility all the more important.  Pakistan is severely lacking in its ability to move large pieces of equipments, soldiers, and material over long distances with any speed.  Such capabilities make fighting more effective as supply lines are shorter and more reliable/efficient, and also aid in civilian projects/operations such as relief work following natural disasters.  Pakistan needs both fixed wing Stategic (C17 class) and heavy (C-130) class (C-130 class would be more important at this point) aircraft.  It also needs heavy lift choppers in the class of super stallion or chinook...the Z-8F (w/ 5000kg load or 27 soldiers) would potentially be a good option for the future (for heavy lift) with Z-15 (for medium).

Tank,

I think you wrote logical but in case of Pakistan it is not waiting the troops and heavy equipment to be transported by air. It distance is between 10 (Lahore) to max 250 (Baluchistan) km. That is maximum of 4 hours drive for our heaviest tanks. And to be frankly, the tankes are already in best formation on the right place. You do not have to risk huge vulnerable transportplanes and neither do you need runways. Just look at our El Khaled. Mobility (speed) is the most important part. Then it is all weather, day/night and accuracy. Pakistan has its defence optimized according to the climate and terrain. We pretty much have a border from a to z. There wil be no movement along that line but more into the enemy territory as a fast retaliation.

[M_ZEE32]

I pretty much think the same, C130 are good to go for another decade, yet we do need to replace them before 2015 as they are pretty old now (some of them).

[Daredevil]

Aliph, investing every penny in China will lead to similar outcome as the US partnerships of the past.  Pakistan needs to spread what little resources it has to a few reliable partners, acquire technology, know-how, and eventually build its own sectors up.

Investing every penny in China ? With what money ? Pakistan is Bankrupt even acquisition of weapons are financed by them.

[Maywand1800]

PAF to get F-16s with tough stipulations


ISLAMABAD (Online) - Despite being a key ally in the war against terrorism in which Pakistan have rendered innumerable sacrifices, the United States is extending military assistance to Islamabad under strict conditions and stipulations, reflecting the nature of relations between the two countries.
According to sources, Washington will deliver 18 F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan Air Force (PAF) by the end of this month under a series of conditions including an assurance from Pakistan that aircraft would not be used in any conflict with India.
During last week’s strategic dialogue between India and the US, the Indian leaders had conveyed to their counterparts in Washington their concerns over the US military assistance to Pakistan. Besides assuring Indian side, Washington for the first time came out open to state that it was taking steps to ensure that its military aid to Pakistan would not be used against India.
Sources said the US Air Force engineers would accompany the delivery of the F-16s and supervise not only the airbase but also the operations to be carried out by the PAF against Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Though the PAF pilots will fly the jets, the logistics, management and control is stated to remain with the US engineers.
Sources said the Block 50/52 Model F-16 jets equipped with latest missiles would land at Shahbaz Airbase in Jacoabad.
It is said that around US$500 million were spent to upgrade the airbase to make it conducive to the new F-16s.

The Nation
---------------------------------------------------------

Man this is pathetic, If we go to war with Bindia , we cant use these F16's Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   F the F16s

[AWA]

Don't you worry. Let these F-16s Land on our soil, then we will decide how to use these F-16s. And in case of war with India, no one is going to seek permission from uncle sam how to use these F-16s.

[SurvivoR]

After reading the news article in The Nation... Only one thought comes to my mind...

Kia zillat hai yaar!

[tank131]

Well, I dont buy that. Where is the report from India or US of such a condition?  Why would they sell 500 AMRAAMs if the the F-16 isnt allowed to engage IAF fighters?  Does that make any sense?  These fighters will come with conditions, but not defending Pakistani airspace from aggressive action is definitely not one of them.  All that selling the AMRAAM would do in that case is allow Pakistan to make its own missile by reverse engineering the AMRAAM (which will likely happen anyways).  

Conditions are likely to include, 1) no participation in exercises with a 3rd nation w/o US approval (including that these birds cant leave Pakistan without US approval). 2) removal of nuclear capability, 3) Inspections of inventory of fighters, spares, and weapons by US officials, as well as maintenance with supervision of US crews.  Highly unlikely that any condition of no use to defend against aggression is part of the deal.  If it is, the second the planes land, the US crews are likely to be kicked out like they were in Iran...only this time, PAF will have the AMRAAM and JDAM in hand, which will be the real chip.

[PAF2010]

Pakistan needs to start investing every penny of hers into Chinese systems.

Oh I forgot, Chinese dont give out commissions. Sorry.

Who says ? Chinese are the worst business dealers in the world. They will give you any thing of any quality at any price !

[hassan]

and its is china who is leading in the world of business.time to smell coffee!

[S.R.A.H]

PAF to get F-16s with tough stipulations


ISLAMABAD (Online) - Despite being a key ally in the war against terrorism in which Pakistan have rendered innumerable sacrifices, the United States is extending military assistance to Islamabad under strict conditions and stipulations, reflecting the nature of relations between the two countries.
According to sources, Washington will deliver 18 F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan Air Force (PAF) by the end of this month under a series of conditions including an assurance from Pakistan that aircraft would not be used in any conflict with India.
During last week’s strategic dialogue between India and the US, the Indian leaders had conveyed to their counterparts in Washington their concerns over the US military assistance to Pakistan. Besides assuring Indian side, Washington for the first time came out open to state that it was taking steps to ensure that its military aid to Pakistan would not be used against India.
Sources said the US Air Force engineers would accompany the delivery of the F-16s and supervise not only the airbase but also the operations to be carried out by the PAF against Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Though the PAF pilots will fly the jets, the logistics, management and control is stated to remain with the US engineers.
Sources said the Block 50/52 Model F-16 jets equipped with latest missiles would land at Shahbaz Airbase in Jacoabad.
It is said that around US$500 million were spent to upgrade the airbase to make it conducive to the new F-16s.

The Nation
---------------------------------------------------------

Man this is pathetic, If we go to war with Bindia , we cant use these F16's Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   F the F16s

Guys, these are just words, everything goes in Love and War. We'll give them all the assurances they want but when the time comes, we'll go our way. They need to make their red neck congressmen happy, thats all.

[S.R.A.H]

PAF to get F-16s with tough stipulations


ISLAMABAD (Online) - Despite being a key ally in the war against terrorism in which Pakistan have rendered innumerable sacrifices, the United States is extending military assistance to Islamabad under strict conditions and stipulations, reflecting the nature of relations between the two countries.
According to sources, Washington will deliver 18 F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan Air Force (PAF) by the end of this month under a series of conditions including an assurance from Pakistan that aircraft would not be used in any conflict with India.
During last week’s strategic dialogue between India and the US, the Indian leaders had conveyed to their counterparts in Washington their concerns over the US military assistance to Pakistan. Besides assuring Indian side, Washington for the first time came out open to state that it was taking steps to ensure that its military aid to Pakistan would not be used against India.
Sources said the US Air Force engineers would accompany the delivery of the F-16s and supervise not only the airbase but also the operations to be carried out by the PAF against Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Though the PAF pilots will fly the jets, the logistics, management and control is stated to remain with the US engineers.
Sources said the Block 50/52 Model F-16 jets equipped with latest missiles would land at Shahbaz Airbase in Jacoabad.
It is said that around US$500 million were spent to upgrade the airbase to make it conducive to the new F-16s.

The Nation
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Man this is pathetic, If we go to war with Bindia , we cant use these F16's Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   F the F16s

Guys, these are just words, everything goes in Love and War. We'll give them all the assurances they want but when the time comes, we'll go our way. They need to make their red neck congressmen happy, thats all.