124 replies to this topic

[thunderinaction]

Guys I was wondering that if we buy some Mirages would they be able to kick InAF
butt?Coz I think they can and I might be wrong?

[USAM]

Mirage 2000-5 MKII Mirage 20009 are different and are about 15 Million $$$ expensive then Mirage 2000-5. Mirage 2009 and Mirage 200-5 MKII are called single engine RAFALE and their most the tech comes from the Rafale the most cutting edge tech france has to offer. Some people say that Su 30MKI have some French avonics but they might have modern but not the cutting edge stuff of French like that on RAFALE because france would be a fool to sell coressponding tech for Su 30MKI> So




Mirage 2000-5 MKII 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool)

Mirage 2009 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool)

RAFALE 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool)

[Squadron Leader]

The Mirage 2000-9 is undoubtabley the best choice because it's three times more advanced than India's MIG-29s, Mirage 2000s, and it's comparable to the SU-30MKI. The Mirage 2000-9 would also fill in future requirements, and stay in service for 30+ years in the PAF.

[thunderinaction]

So the mirage 2000-9 is undoubtedly the best against India. :SNIPER:

[Squadron Leader]

So the mirage 2000-9 is undoubtedly the best against India. :SNIPER:

Yeah.....and it'll last in the inventory the longest

[Oqaab]

The Mirage 2000-9 is undoubtabley the best choice because it's three times more advanced than India's MIG-29s, Mirage 2000s, and it's comparable to the SU-30MKI. The Mirage 2000-9 would also fill in future requirements, and stay in service for 30+ years in the PAF.

No,

Mirage 2000-9 is less capable then Su-30MKI but its can kill MKI. And it is very very expensive for Pakistan, maybe more then 55 million (not sure about it) and Rafale is a better option then Mirage 2000-9.

[American79]

Oqaab

Mirage 2000-9 is less capable then Su-30MKI but its can kill MKI.

[Oqaab]

Oqaab

So whats ur point here ???

[akwafresh]

The Mirage 2000-9 is undoubtabley the best choice because it's three times more advanced than India's MIG-29s, Mirage 2000s, and it's comparable to the SU-30MKI. The Mirage 2000-9 would also fill in future requirements, and stay in service for 30+ years in the PAF.

hmm where did you get that 3 times more advanced part??????? in 30 years its going to be antique, M2K-9 it self is heavily based on 60s aircraft design just like the M2K's.

[PakistanSSG]

Yeah, Oqaab, I didnt get that either. If the Mirage can kill the Flanker, then wouldnt that make it a more capable fighter? Although I'm understanding what you mean to say, if thats what it is.

[pegasus]

Can somebody Post the Specs of the M2K-9 . I.e Radar Range, Payload , Etc to compare with the Su-30MKI?

[troung]

“The Mirage 2000-9 would also fill in future requirements, and stay in service for 30+ years in the PAF.”

And knowing the PAF the FC-1 will be around in 30 years (Mirage IIIEP and J-6 as an example), the point being?

“in 30 years its going to be antique”

So will just about every plane in service.

“M2K-9 it self is heavily based on 60s aircraft design just like the M2K's.”

No they have a similar look and that’s about it. The Mirage 2000 has FBW and canards along with modern radar (RDY/RDY-2) and weapons (MICA EM/IR, SCALP EG, APACHE).

“The Mirage 2000-9 is undoubtabley the best choice because it's three times more advanced than India's MIG-29s, Mirage 2000s”

On what scale? What do you mean by 3 times better? Yes a case can be made that the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 is more advanced then the MiG-29SE and Mirage 2000EH/BH but on what grounds do you say 3 times better?

“Can somebody Post the Specs of the M2K-9 . I.e Radar Range, Payload , Etc to compare with the Su-30MKI?”

800 mile air superiority mission radius with 3 drop tanks and 6 MICA EM/IR (4/2). The RDY-2 has a detection range of around 80-90 miles and can attack 4 targets at the same time.

Hell I’m to lazy to do the rest……

[Oqaab]

Yeah, Oqaab, I didnt get that either. If the Mirage can kill the Flanker, then wouldnt that make it a more capable fighter? Although I'm understanding what you mean to say, if thats what it is.

It doesnt mean that we need more advanced fighter then MKI to counter them. F-16 block 60, Mirage 2000-5/9 and J-10 can kill MKI. Another example is of JF-17. Our JF-17 is less capable the Indian Mig-29s but it was made to counter all the Mig series(Mig-29 too) in IAF.

Actually we cant compare Mirage 2000-9 with MKI since both have different missions. Mirage 2000-9 was the upgraded version of Mirage 2000-5 with a more powerful M53-P2 engine and advanced avionics and technically it is more advanced then Mig-29s. On the other hand, the Flanker is now downgraded and it is serving for Indian navy. So Mirage 2000-9 is enough for any Su-30MKI.

[thunderinaction]

And knowing the PAF the FC-1 will be around in 30 years (Mirage IIIEP and J-6 as an example), the point being?

Our technicians wont be sleeping.By that time we will have a modified JF-17.

[USAM]

RAFALE is new desing and more place for future upgrades. MIRAGE 2009 is par with SU 30MKI because MIRAGE 2009 tech which is same as RAFALE and tech is the most important thing but desing is old with modification but RAFALE will serve the best and longer. Even JF 17 could have been/can be made near Su 30MKI with engine and avonics and some modifications but that will cost more.



According to ACM JF 17 will get avonics and systems upgrade every 5 year.

[Squadron Leader]

1) The part I made about the Mirage 2000-9 being 3 times more advanced then the Mirage 2000, and MIG-29s.
Mirage 2000, Mirage 2000-5 is more advanced then Mirage 2000, Mirage 2000-5MK2 is more advanced then the Mirage 2000-5, Mirage 2000-9 is more advanced then Mirage 2000-5MK2. Looking at that the Mirage 2000-9 is three times newer then Mirage 2000, and three times more advanced.

2) The JF-17 is capable enough to counter the MIG-29 and Mirage 2000 once it's fitted with advanced avionics which could carry R-Darters.

[pegasus]

"MIRAGE 2009 is par with SU 30MKI "

Tell me how so? Can you compare radar Specs , range . Etc. Remember the Su-30MKI is a whole different breed of AC. It is an advanced Hybrid of the Su-35 and Su-37 ( not the S-37) and hence is a SuperFlanker not an ordinary Flanker and aptly dubbed by the Russians as an Air Dominance Fighter . As of now it is THE most advanced fighter to come out of russia ( S-37 was a tech Demonstrator with no real Avionics/radar package) . This has been acknoledge by the Head of Sukhoi, Janees and President Putin.

[thunderinaction]

Come on the Mirage 2000-9 is better than SU-30.

[Oqaab]

american79 i was gonna have the same impression here. saying that mirage 2000-9 is less capable than the flanker but the same time it can kill the flanker? am i missing something?

Read my previous post again. U will get the answer.

[troung]

"Come on the Mirage 2000-9 is better than SU-30."

Please explain how........

[FASAL XJ]

why would UAE want to sell her front line fighters to Pakistan its just like saying that Pakistan will sell her whole F-16 fleet to bagladesh. Belive me guyz i think the PAF know what there doing during war time arab states will allow us to fly there aircraft against the IAF we should take complete advantage over this moreover during the last indo-pak tensions i heard that PAF pilots were on stand by on UAE F-16s,Mirages etc as well as saudi AWACS,F-15s and Tornadoes for any indian agression.

[pegasus]

"against the IAF we should take complete advantage over this moreover during the last indo-pak tensions i heard that PAF pilots were on stand by on UAE F-16s,Mirages etc as well as saudi AWACS,F-15s and Tornadoes for any indian agression"


PLease show proof for your above Statement because it looks more like wishful thinking rather than reality.


Also some one here please explain to me how the Mirage 2000-9 is better than the Indian Su-30MKI. From my knowledge of the M2k9 its just a Mirage 2000-5MKII with enhanced AG capabilities custom made for the UAEAF .

[thunderinaction]

"Come on the Mirage 2000-9 is better than SU-30."

Please explain how........

It has better manoeuverability and avionically it is also better.

[pegasus]

."It has better manoeuverability and avionically it is also better."

Better than the MKI radar? your kidding right

[thunderinaction]

."It has better manoeuverability and avionically it is also better."

Better than the MKI radar? your kidding right

No I think u r kidding.

[Himanshu]

RDY2
http://www-v3.thales...l/pdf/rdy_2.pdf

Some info about BARS.. not from the official firm but still it provides a lot of info..

http://vayu-sena.tri...-su30mki.html#8

Somewhat better source.. if you believe

N011M Bars / RLSU-30MK
http://www.overscan....k/Avionics.html

[thunderinaction]

So who's better Mirage 2000-9 or SU-30MKI????

[Himanshu]

MKI Better..

[rafale]

"Come on the Mirage 2000-9 is better than SU-30."

Please explain how........

It has better manoeuverability and avionically it is also better.

MIRAGE 2009 better manoeuverability and avionically it is also better.HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
HHA
SU-30MKI IS MOST MNANUVERING FIGHTER OF HISTERY ONLY F-22 CAN COUNTER IN MANUJVERABLITY SU-30 HAS TRUST VECTORING ENGINES GIVEING IT GREAT MANUVERABLITY AND PLUS ITS FOWERD CANARD MAKE IKT MOST MANUVERABLE ANG ANGIL FIGTER OPREATIONAL TO DATE INDIA SU-30 HAS IR SEARCH AND TREAK WHICH CAN BE USED TO SEARCH AND FIRE A MISSIL AND KEEPING IT STEALY NOT COMPLETLY BUT STILL STEALTHY RADER OF MKI HAS 300KM RANG IT IS ALSO CALLED MINI AWACS IT ALSO HAS DATA LINK PLUS IT CARRES MOST ADVANCE SHORT RANG MISSIL ARCHER .SOMTHING ABOUT ARCHERThe Archer had the turn rate performance to allow its user to exploit engagement geometries which were unavailable to earlier third generation missiles such as the AIM-9L/M, as well its seeker allowed its user to fire the missile in geometries which were unusable by earlier missiles. Because the missile had such high aerodynamic and seeker agility, the opponent would have little chance of defeating the missile through aggressive manoeuvre.

SOMTHING ABOUT FLAKER ON FOREING SITES


The Flanker has twice the combat radius of the F/A-18A+, higher energy manoeuvrability, higher sustained and instantaneous turn rate, a longer ranging radar and substantially larger missile load. Advanced variants such as the Su-30MKI/Su-35/37 have unsurpassed manoeuvre performance, especially in the demanding high AoA, high G regime of flight

AND U THING MIRAGE 2000-9 IS SUP;ERIOR OH GOD HELP HIM

[Squadron Leader]

The MKI is better than the M2K-9, however, if the PAF had Mirage 2000-9, then it can sustain a sort of minimun detterence.

[impaki]

got any pictures of mirage 2000-9??..just wondering....
thanks

[thunderinaction]

"Come on the Mirage 2000-9 is better than SU-30."

Please explain how........

It has better manoeuverability and avionically it is also better.

MIRAGE 2009 better manoeuverability and avionically it is also better.HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
HHA
SU-30MKI IS MOST MNANUVERING FIGHTER OF HISTERY ONLY F-22 CAN COUNTER IN MANUJVERABLITY SU-30 HAS TRUST VECTORING ENGINES GIVEING IT GREAT MANUVERABLITY AND PLUS ITS FOWERD CANARD MAKE IKT MOST MANUVERABLE ANG ANGIL FIGTER OPREATIONAL TO DATE INDIA SU-30 HAS IR SEARCH AND TREAK WHICH CAN BE USED TO SEARCH AND FIRE A MISSIL AND KEEPING IT STEALY NOT COMPLETLY BUT STILL STEALTHY RADER OF MKI HAS 300KM RANG IT IS ALSO CALLED MINI AWACS IT ALSO HAS DATA LINK PLUS IT CARRES MOST ADVANCE SHORT RANG MISSIL ARCHER .SOMTHING ABOUT ARCHERThe Archer had the turn rate performance to allow its user to exploit engagement geometries which were unavailable to earlier third generation missiles such as the AIM-9L/M, as well its seeker allowed its user to fire the missile in geometries which were unusable by earlier missiles. Because the missile had such high aerodynamic and seeker agility, the opponent would have little chance of defeating the missile through aggressive manoeuvre.

SOMTHING ABOUT FLAKER ON FOREING SITES


The Flanker has twice the combat radius of the F/A-18A+, higher energy manoeuvrability, higher sustained and instantaneous turn rate, a longer ranging radar and substantially larger missile load. Advanced variants such as the Su-30MKI/Su-35/37 have unsurpassed manoeuvre performance, especially in the demanding high AoA, high G regime of flight

AND U THING MIRAGE 2000-9 IS SUP;ERIOR OH GOD HELP HIM

Ok man no problem thank you for telling me.No person on this earth is perfect u know.

[thunderinaction]

Here's one.

[pakibath]

It is very depressing that Pakistan's defence budget is only 2+ billion usd, when India's budget is around 13+ billion usd. How do we close this gap. I also read that 45% of our budget goes into debt payment. And 17% on govt spending. Who is responsible for this state in our economy. We had the best economy during the 80s I guess. Are there plans to do some defence export to increase our defence spending. We need to have a budget to 4-5 billion. If one plane costs 55 million to counter India, Given the current 30 % of the defence budget used for PAF and on that only 30% is used on weapons purchase we cant even buy 4 planes (around 180 mil ) a year. We need to add 10-15 planes a year. So think of a anything in that cost range that can counter IAF planes.

[pegasus]

Well i just read the write up on the RD-Y2 . Its impressive but still lacking than the MKI radar. You should remember that the Russians claim that the MKI Radar is near 5th Generation . And is as of now the Most powerful Radar to come out of Russia.

However as somebody said that the RDY-2 is good and will be a decent deterent. It wound not be an easy walk in the park for the MKI . but it would still ahve the upper hand. ALso the MKI has a larger Payload and range.


the RDY-2 can scan up to 24 Targets and Engage the 4 nmore threatening at the same time.

The MKI radar however can scan 20 and Enage the 8 most threatening . Phazotron N-011M radar which has a 350 km search range and a 200 km tracking range.orward hemisphere is ±90º in azimuth and ±55º in elevation. The N-011M ensures a 20 metre resolution detection of large sea targets at a distance up to 400 km, and of small size ones - at a distance of 120 km

The RDY-2 and MKI's ECM and EW suit would pretty much be the same in my opinion.

[mosaeqeh80]

Assalam-o-Alakum!! Salam!! I think the PAF should rather get the Rafale instead of the Mirage-2000-9.

I have a question. What is the difference between the tracking and searching ranges of a radar.

Thanks.
KHUDA HAFIZ!!

[USAM]

If any one of you believes that RAFALE tech is better then Su 30MKI then you guys can think that Mirage 2009 which have same tech so in tech field MIRAGE 2009 may win.


350 KM search range may be for jumbo jets and 200 KM tracking range for fighter size target is bullshit i repeat bullshit. Tracking range of RDY 2 and Su 30MKI radar are very close. In cruise missiles Mirage 2009 with latest EU cruise missiles is better then russian once. IRST after you lock on you have to fire then missiles thus turn on radar and give R 77 guiadance till its seeker is turn on and that will be light all ECM on RAFALE or Mirage 2009. But MICA IR can give you that kind of kill without turning on radar. SU 30MKI manueverbility is good but even F 22 is in danger when near aircraft like F 7 with high boresight missiles then SU 30 MKI near MIRAGE 2009. Russians always spice up the specifications but very very few live up to their expitations.


Mirage 2009 is pak air space aginast Su 30MKI will toast the SU 30MKI most of the time.

[Desert Eagle2]

umm, no it won't. Not even a "PAF" Mirage 2000-5 MKII would toast an Su-30MKI, no matter who's airspace.

[kataphraktoi]

It is very depressing that Pakistan's defence budget is only 2+ billion usd, when India's budget is around 13+ billion usd.

it is actually.....

Pak is USD 2.6 Billion whereas Ind is USD 15 billion :ermm