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#1
thunderinaction
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Posted 09 November 2003 - 01:21 AM
butt?Coz I think they can and I might be wrong?
#2
USAM
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Posted 09 November 2003 - 04:22 AM
Mirage 2000-5 MKII 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool)
Mirage 2009 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool)
RAFALE 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool) 8cool)
#3
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Posted 09 November 2003 - 05:54 AM
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#4
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Posted 09 November 2003 - 07:03 AM
#5
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Posted 09 November 2003 - 07:16 AM
Yeah.....and it'll last in the inventory the longestSo the mirage 2000-9 is undoubtedly the best against India. :SNIPER:

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#6
Oqaab
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Posted 09 November 2003 - 01:11 PM
The Mirage 2000-9 is undoubtabley the best choice because it's three times more advanced than India's MIG-29s, Mirage 2000s, and it's comparable to the SU-30MKI. The Mirage 2000-9 would also fill in future requirements, and stay in service for 30+ years in the PAF.
No,
Mirage 2000-9 is less capable then Su-30MKI but its can kill MKI. And it is very very expensive for Pakistan, maybe more then 55 million (not sure about it) and Rafale is a better option then Mirage 2000-9.
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#7
American79
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Posted 09 November 2003 - 01:17 PM
Mirage 2000-9 is less capable then Su-30MKI but its can kill MKI.


#8
Oqaab
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Posted 09 November 2003 - 01:22 PM
Oqaab
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So whats ur point here ???
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Ab himmat say hai mera saara jahan. (Ali Noor--Noori)
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“Great pilots are made not born…A man may possess good eyesight, sensitive hands and perfect coordination, but the end product is only fashioned by steady coaching, much practice and experience.
– Air Vice Marshal J.E. Johnson, RAF
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<----PAF... Train to fight--Fight to kill.---->
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#9
akwafresh
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Posted 09 November 2003 - 09:19 PM
hmm where did you get that 3 times more advanced part??????? in 30 years its going to be antique, M2K-9 it self is heavily based on 60s aircraft design just like the M2K's.The Mirage 2000-9 is undoubtabley the best choice because it's three times more advanced than India's MIG-29s, Mirage 2000s, and it's comparable to the SU-30MKI. The Mirage 2000-9 would also fill in future requirements, and stay in service for 30+ years in the PAF.
#10
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Posted 09 November 2003 - 10:40 PM
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Posted 09 November 2003 - 10:47 PM
#12
troung
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Posted 09 November 2003 - 11:16 PM
And knowing the PAF the FC-1 will be around in 30 years (Mirage IIIEP and J-6 as an example), the point being?
“in 30 years its going to be antique”
So will just about every plane in service.

“M2K-9 it self is heavily based on 60s aircraft design just like the M2K's.”
No they have a similar look and that’s about it. The Mirage 2000 has FBW and canards along with modern radar (RDY/RDY-2) and weapons (MICA EM/IR, SCALP EG, APACHE).
“The Mirage 2000-9 is undoubtabley the best choice because it's three times more advanced than India's MIG-29s, Mirage 2000s”
On what scale? What do you mean by 3 times better? Yes a case can be made that the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 is more advanced then the MiG-29SE and Mirage 2000EH/BH but on what grounds do you say 3 times better?
“Can somebody Post the Specs of the M2K-9 . I.e Radar Range, Payload , Etc to compare with the Su-30MKI?”
800 mile air superiority mission radius with 3 drop tanks and 6 MICA EM/IR (4/2). The RDY-2 has a detection range of around 80-90 miles and can attack 4 targets at the same time.
Hell I’m to lazy to do the rest……
Why would I want or need to save it? Its not even an accurate result, how many time have I said that? Your memory aren't that short are you?
Damn you Americans are fxckheads and also damn smart.
Miss their idiot? What idiot? Unless your definition of "idiot" is a person with a mental of age below three years who does year 10 advanced math and english that is....
Stop being bias mate, you really should understand real combat record tends to be not the most accurate.
What? Your racist to Russians? They talk fact, and thats all it counts
I'll back to what I say I'll would rather have a MiG-29A guarding than a F-22.
Oh.. Is this a trap of yours? Well I can tell you that you've trapped a cat, not the tiger....
I'll doubt he'll forget Black Eagle Force...
#13
Oqaab
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Posted 10 November 2003 - 12:09 PM
Yeah, Oqaab, I didnt get that either. If the Mirage can kill the Flanker, then wouldnt that make it a more capable fighter? Although I'm understanding what you mean to say, if thats what it is.
It doesnt mean that we need more advanced fighter then MKI to counter them. F-16 block 60, Mirage 2000-5/9 and J-10 can kill MKI. Another example is of JF-17. Our JF-17 is less capable the Indian Mig-29s but it was made to counter all the Mig series(Mig-29 too) in IAF.
Actually we cant compare Mirage 2000-9 with MKI since both have different missions. Mirage 2000-9 was the upgraded version of Mirage 2000-5 with a more powerful M53-P2 engine and advanced avionics and technically it is more advanced then Mig-29s. On the other hand, the Flanker is now downgraded and it is serving for Indian navy. So Mirage 2000-9 is enough for any Su-30MKI.
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Ab himmat say hai mera saara jahan. (Ali Noor--Noori)
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“Great pilots are made not born…A man may possess good eyesight, sensitive hands and perfect coordination, but the end product is only fashioned by steady coaching, much practice and experience.
– Air Vice Marshal J.E. Johnson, RAF
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<----PAF... Train to fight--Fight to kill.---->
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Pakistan ZINDABAD--Pakistan PAAINDABAD
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#14
thunderinaction
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Posted 11 November 2003 - 01:41 AM
And knowing the PAF the FC-1 will be around in 30 years (Mirage IIIEP and J-6 as an example), the point being?
Our technicians wont be sleeping.By that time we will have a modified JF-17.
#15
USAM
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Posted 11 November 2003 - 02:54 AM
According to ACM JF 17 will get avonics and systems upgrade every 5 year.
#16
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Posted 11 November 2003 - 05:19 AM
Mirage 2000, Mirage 2000-5 is more advanced then Mirage 2000, Mirage 2000-5MK2 is more advanced then the Mirage 2000-5, Mirage 2000-9 is more advanced then Mirage 2000-5MK2. Looking at that the Mirage 2000-9 is three times newer then Mirage 2000, and three times more advanced.
2) The JF-17 is capable enough to counter the MIG-29 and Mirage 2000 once it's fitted with advanced avionics which could carry R-Darters.
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#17
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Posted 11 November 2003 - 05:44 AM
Tell me how so? Can you compare radar Specs , range . Etc. Remember the Su-30MKI is a whole different breed of AC. It is an advanced Hybrid of the Su-35 and Su-37 ( not the S-37) and hence is a SuperFlanker not an ordinary Flanker and aptly dubbed by the Russians as an Air Dominance Fighter . As of now it is THE most advanced fighter to come out of russia ( S-37 was a tech Demonstrator with no real Avionics/radar package) . This has been acknoledge by the Head of Sukhoi, Janees and President Putin.
#18
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Posted 11 November 2003 - 09:44 AM
american79 i was gonna have the same impression here. saying that mirage 2000-9 is less capable than the flanker but the same time it can kill the flanker? am i missing something?Oqaab
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#19
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Posted 11 November 2003 - 11:12 AM
#20
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Posted 11 November 2003 - 01:23 PM
american79 i was gonna have the same impression here. saying that mirage 2000-9 is less capable than the flanker but the same time it can kill the flanker? am i missing something?
Read my previous post again. U will get the answer.
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Ab himmat say hai mera saara jahan. (Ali Noor--Noori)
---------------------------------------------------------
“Great pilots are made not born…A man may possess good eyesight, sensitive hands and perfect coordination, but the end product is only fashioned by steady coaching, much practice and experience.
– Air Vice Marshal J.E. Johnson, RAF
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<----PAF... Train to fight--Fight to kill.---->
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Pakistan ZINDABAD--Pakistan PAAINDABAD
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#21
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Posted 11 November 2003 - 01:31 PM
Please explain how........
Why would I want or need to save it? Its not even an accurate result, how many time have I said that? Your memory aren't that short are you?
Damn you Americans are fxckheads and also damn smart.
Miss their idiot? What idiot? Unless your definition of "idiot" is a person with a mental of age below three years who does year 10 advanced math and english that is....
Stop being bias mate, you really should understand real combat record tends to be not the most accurate.
What? Your racist to Russians? They talk fact, and thats all it counts
I'll back to what I say I'll would rather have a MiG-29A guarding than a F-22.
Oh.. Is this a trap of yours? Well I can tell you that you've trapped a cat, not the tiger....
I'll doubt he'll forget Black Eagle Force...
#22
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Posted 11 November 2003 - 01:50 PM
'1 mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter'
ce la vie
“WE KNEW HE WAS A SON OF A ######, BUT HE WAS OUR SON OF A ######”
CIA agent Geoffrey Kemp talking about Saddam Hussein:
#23
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Posted 11 November 2003 - 04:06 PM
PLease show proof for your above Statement because it looks more like wishful thinking rather than reality.
Also some one here please explain to me how the Mirage 2000-9 is better than the Indian Su-30MKI. From my knowledge of the M2k9 its just a Mirage 2000-5MKII with enhanced AG capabilities custom made for the UAEAF .
#24
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 02:27 AM
It has better manoeuverability and avionically it is also better."Come on the Mirage 2000-9 is better than SU-30."
Please explain how........
#25
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 02:59 AM
Better than the MKI radar? your kidding right
#26
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 03:23 AM
No I think u r kidding.."It has better manoeuverability and avionically it is also better."
Better than the MKI radar? your kidding right

#27
Himanshu
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 04:48 AM
http://www-v3.thales...l/pdf/rdy_2.pdf
Some info about BARS.. not from the official firm but still it provides a lot of info..
http://vayu-sena.tri...-su30mki.html#8
Somewhat better source.. if you believe
N011M Bars / RLSU-30MK
http://www.overscan....k/Avionics.html
#28
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 05:17 AM
#29
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#30
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 06:37 AM
MIRAGE 2009 better manoeuverability and avionically it is also better.HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAIt has better manoeuverability and avionically it is also better."Come on the Mirage 2000-9 is better than SU-30."
Please explain how........
HHA
SU-30MKI IS MOST MNANUVERING FIGHTER OF HISTERY ONLY F-22 CAN COUNTER IN MANUJVERABLITY SU-30 HAS TRUST VECTORING ENGINES GIVEING IT GREAT MANUVERABLITY AND PLUS ITS FOWERD CANARD MAKE IKT MOST MANUVERABLE ANG ANGIL FIGTER OPREATIONAL TO DATE INDIA SU-30 HAS IR SEARCH AND TREAK WHICH CAN BE USED TO SEARCH AND FIRE A MISSIL AND KEEPING IT STEALY NOT COMPLETLY BUT STILL STEALTHY RADER OF MKI HAS 300KM RANG IT IS ALSO CALLED MINI AWACS IT ALSO HAS DATA LINK PLUS IT CARRES MOST ADVANCE SHORT RANG MISSIL ARCHER .SOMTHING ABOUT ARCHERThe Archer had the turn rate performance to allow its user to exploit engagement geometries which were unavailable to earlier third generation missiles such as the AIM-9L/M, as well its seeker allowed its user to fire the missile in geometries which were unusable by earlier missiles. Because the missile had such high aerodynamic and seeker agility, the opponent would have little chance of defeating the missile through aggressive manoeuvre.
SOMTHING ABOUT FLAKER ON FOREING SITES
The Flanker has twice the combat radius of the F/A-18A+, higher energy manoeuvrability, higher sustained and instantaneous turn rate, a longer ranging radar and substantially larger missile load. Advanced variants such as the Su-30MKI/Su-35/37 have unsurpassed manoeuvre performance, especially in the demanding high AoA, high G regime of flight
AND U THING MIRAGE 2000-9 IS SUP;ERIOR OH GOD HELP HIM
#31
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 07:30 AM
Regards,
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#32
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 08:00 AM
thanks

#33
thunderinaction
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 11:43 AM
Ok man no problem thank you for telling me.No person on this earth is perfect u know.MIRAGE 2009 better manoeuverability and avionically it is also better.HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
It has better manoeuverability and avionically it is also better."Come on the Mirage 2000-9 is better than SU-30."
Please explain how........
HHA
SU-30MKI IS MOST MNANUVERING FIGHTER OF HISTERY ONLY F-22 CAN COUNTER IN MANUJVERABLITY SU-30 HAS TRUST VECTORING ENGINES GIVEING IT GREAT MANUVERABLITY AND PLUS ITS FOWERD CANARD MAKE IKT MOST MANUVERABLE ANG ANGIL FIGTER OPREATIONAL TO DATE INDIA SU-30 HAS IR SEARCH AND TREAK WHICH CAN BE USED TO SEARCH AND FIRE A MISSIL AND KEEPING IT STEALY NOT COMPLETLY BUT STILL STEALTHY RADER OF MKI HAS 300KM RANG IT IS ALSO CALLED MINI AWACS IT ALSO HAS DATA LINK PLUS IT CARRES MOST ADVANCE SHORT RANG MISSIL ARCHER .SOMTHING ABOUT ARCHERThe Archer had the turn rate performance to allow its user to exploit engagement geometries which were unavailable to earlier third generation missiles such as the AIM-9L/M, as well its seeker allowed its user to fire the missile in geometries which were unusable by earlier missiles. Because the missile had such high aerodynamic and seeker agility, the opponent would have little chance of defeating the missile through aggressive manoeuvre.
SOMTHING ABOUT FLAKER ON FOREING SITES
The Flanker has twice the combat radius of the F/A-18A+, higher energy manoeuvrability, higher sustained and instantaneous turn rate, a longer ranging radar and substantially larger missile load. Advanced variants such as the Su-30MKI/Su-35/37 have unsurpassed manoeuvre performance, especially in the demanding high AoA, high G regime of flight
AND U THING MIRAGE 2000-9 IS SUP;ERIOR OH GOD HELP HIM
#34
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#35
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 05:20 PM
#36
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 05:54 PM
However as somebody said that the RDY-2 is good and will be a decent deterent. It wound not be an easy walk in the park for the MKI . but it would still ahve the upper hand. ALso the MKI has a larger Payload and range.
the RDY-2 can scan up to 24 Targets and Engage the 4 nmore threatening at the same time.
The MKI radar however can scan 20 and Enage the 8 most threatening . Phazotron N-011M radar which has a 350 km search range and a 200 km tracking range.orward hemisphere is ±90º in azimuth and ±55º in elevation. The N-011M ensures a 20 metre resolution detection of large sea targets at a distance up to 400 km, and of small size ones - at a distance of 120 km
The RDY-2 and MKI's ECM and EW suit would pretty much be the same in my opinion.
#37
mosaeqeh80
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 06:30 PM
I have a question. What is the difference between the tracking and searching ranges of a radar.
Thanks.
KHUDA HAFIZ!!
“Quality is better than quantity, but after a certain limit, quantity is better than quality.”
MAQ.
Thank you.
Khuda Hafiz.
#38
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 07:54 PM
350 KM search range may be for jumbo jets and 200 KM tracking range for fighter size target is bullshit i repeat bullshit. Tracking range of RDY 2 and Su 30MKI radar are very close. In cruise missiles Mirage 2009 with latest EU cruise missiles is better then russian once. IRST after you lock on you have to fire then missiles thus turn on radar and give R 77 guiadance till its seeker is turn on and that will be light all ECM on RAFALE or Mirage 2009. But MICA IR can give you that kind of kill without turning on radar. SU 30MKI manueverbility is good but even F 22 is in danger when near aircraft like F 7 with high boresight missiles then SU 30 MKI near MIRAGE 2009. Russians always spice up the specifications but very very few live up to their expitations.
Mirage 2009 is pak air space aginast Su 30MKI will toast the SU 30MKI most of the time.
#39
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 08:31 PM
He oiled himself like the soul of the olive.
He became glass of transparent hardness.
He studied to be a hurricane wind.
He fought himself until his blood was extinguished.
Only then was he worthy of his people.
"Canto General"
by Pablo Neruda
#40
kataphraktoi
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 09:12 PM
it is actually.....It is very depressing that Pakistan's defence budget is only 2+ billion usd, when India's budget is around 13+ billion usd.
Pak is USD 2.6 Billion whereas Ind is USD 15 billion :ermm
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