New Indian Government Slows Spending On Army, --- Options

[vikasrehman]

Source: Defense News

New Indian Government Slows Spending on Army
By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI, NEW DELHI

Ten Indian Army programs worth more than $3.2 billion have been put on hold for at least six months by India’s new United Progressive Alliance government, whose Finance Ministry says that contracts signed by the preceding government leave little money for other procurement.

“The delay will cause a major problem in the procurement of the weapons and equipment for the Indian Army,” a senior Army planning official said June 23. “Even after six months it is not clear whether they will go ahead, because the new government in Delhi may review some programs.”

Most of the programs on hold have been approved in principle by Army procurement officials, who expected to sign contracts for them within six months. These include:

* 36 Smerch multibarrel rocket launchers from Rosoboronexport, Moscow.

* 28 Tunguska air defense systems from Rosoboronexport.

* 12 Nishant unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) from India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation.

* 16 Heron UAVs from Israel Aircraft Industries, Lod, Israel.

* 120 Igla surface-to-air missiles from Rosoboronexport.

* Six Indian-made weapon-locating radar systems from Bharat Electronics, Bangalore.

* 12 training simulators for UAV operators from Macmet Industries, Bangalore.

Three other programs on hold are not so close to signing:

* 100 155mm tracked howitzers. Contenders for the job include Denel, South Africa; Soltam, Israel; and SWS Defense, Karlskoga, Sweden.

* 180 155mm wheeled howitzers. Contenders include Denel, Soltam and SWS Defense.

* 950 night-vision devices for T-72 tanks, for which the contenders are IAI Electronics Group, Yahud, Israel; LITEF GmbH, Freiburg, Germany; and Reutech Defense Industries Ltd., Natal, South Africa.

Finance Ministry officials did clear the Defence Ministry to put $1.17 billion toward several purchases signed between January and April by the previous National Democratic Alliance government, a senior Defence Ministry official said. This payment — 20 percent of the deals’ total value for the year — will be disbursed within two weeks.

Those deals include:

* Buying 66 Advanced Jet Trainers from BAE SYSTEMS, Farnborough.

* Acquiring the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov from Rosoboronexport, Moscow.

* Buying 16 MiG-29K naval aircraft from Russia to be mounted on Admiral Gorshkov.

* Buying three Phalcon radar systems from IAI, Israel.

India buys about $5 billion in weapons and gear each year — about $2 billion from foreign firms and $3 billion from state-owned defense companies and ordnance factories, a procurement official said.


PS. Modernisation is indeed happening. But the rates at which some claim or the dreams they have is beyond south asian countries' means.

[goodman]

Only a political thing.No economy related.Any way in a military deal money is payed in installments for a long period of time.So with a capital outlay of 5bn these things can easily done.

[pegasus]

Defence News is like INtelonline NOt very Reliable .

Also Every Officer of the Navy and Army i have spoken too tell me the opposite. This Govt doenst want to be seen as soft .

[fiaz]

That's a good idea, they should STOP ALL ONGOING DEFENCE CONTRACTS. They don't need all of them weapons, they should concentrate on feeding their poor and homeless people.

DON'T WORRY ABOUT US WE WON'T HURT THEM, BECAUSE WE ARE PEACE LOVING PEOPLE HERE IN PAKISTAN.

HONEST!!! :pkflg)

:D :D :D

[vikasrehman]

Its hard to say whether congress led govt is 'soft' or 'hard'...but one thing is for sure. Cuts will have to made somewhere to appease rural india which helped to oust BJP led government during recent elections...as im sure congress wouldnt want the same treatement.

[Daredevil]

Help out these guys instead spending billions on armaments :

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/...4/thestory.html

[goodman]

Help out these guys instead spending billions on armaments :

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/...4/thestory.html

I think u guys don't have 150 million millionaires either.So don't cry abt the MKIs and do the same thing u adviced us.

[vikasrehman]

I think u guys don't have 150 million millionaires either.So don't cry abt the MKIs and do the same thing u adviced us.

Very true.
I think, this forum will b a lot more peaceful and constructive if all of us concentrate on our needs instead of advising others.

[h177]

More than 80% of Indian Tanks are not battle worthy. They need to spend on army more instead of giving advising others to spend on Airforce. Why india is still collectng Junk for army :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/wor...y-equipment.htm
By some counts India's armored vehicle holdings are nearly twice that of Pakistan, yet India’s inventory consists of obsolescent models such as the Vijayanta and the T-55. Many of these tanks are in disrepair and in storage. The problems with the program to develop an indigenous tank, the Arjun, is one reason that maintenance, overhauls and upgrades for other Indian tanks have not been fully funded.


The Project Gulmohar upgrade program for the T-55 MBT was almost complete as of late 1999. Some reports claim that most of India’s T-55s have not been upgraded, and that over 90 percent of India’s T-54/T-55 inventory is considered non-operational. The 700+ in service [another 200 are in storage] were expected to remain in service through 2015. In 2001 the Army decided to phase out the T-55 over seven years and replace them with upgraded T-72M1 MBTs.



Licensed production of the T-72M1 at Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) Avadi ended in 1998, and over a 15-year period more than 1,100 tanks were produced. According to some reports at least 70 percent of the T-72 inventory is not considered fully battleworthy. Summer is a difficult season for armored formations. Temperatures inside the T-72 Ajeya main battle tank rise upwards of 60° Celsius in the summer heat, and as of mid-2002 the Army had only just started receiving imported ice-packed vests. The T-72 also suffers from high levels of heat-related engine problems. The Indian army has a program to upgraded 1,500 T-72MIs by enhancing their power packs, fire control systems, night fighting capability and the tank's ability to fire fin stabilising discarding Sabot rounds. This program has been delayed by the start-up of local production of the T-90.

[goodman]

More than 80% of Indian Tanks are not battle worthy. They need to spend on army more instead of giving advising others to spend on Airforce. Why india is still collectng Junk for army :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/wor...y-equipment.htm
By some counts India's armored vehicle holdings are nearly twice that of Pakistan, yet India’s inventory consists of obsolescent models such as the Vijayanta and the T-55. Many of these tanks are in disrepair and in storage. The problems with the program to develop an indigenous tank, the Arjun, is one reason that maintenance, overhauls and upgrades for other Indian tanks have not been fully funded.


The Project Gulmohar upgrade program for the T-55 MBT was almost complete as of late 1999. Some reports claim that most of India’s T-55s have not been upgraded, and that over 90 percent of India’s T-54/T-55 inventory is considered non-operational. The 700+ in service [another 200 are in storage] were expected to remain in service through 2015. In 2001 the Army decided to phase out the T-55 over seven years and replace them with upgraded T-72M1 MBTs.



Licensed production of the T-72M1 at Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) Avadi ended in 1998, and over a 15-year period more than 1,100 tanks were produced. According to some reports at least 70 percent of the T-72 inventory is not considered fully battleworthy. Summer is a difficult season for armored formations. Temperatures inside the T-72 Ajeya main battle tank rise upwards of 60° Celsius in the summer heat, and as of mid-2002 the Army had only just started receiving imported ice-packed vests. The T-72 also suffers from high levels of heat-related engine problems. The Indian army has a program to upgraded 1,500 T-72MIs by enhancing their power packs, fire control systems, night fighting capability and the tank's ability to fire fin stabilising discarding Sabot rounds. This program has been delayed by the start-up of local production of the T-90.

Loo Ye phir suru Ho gaya. (IMG:http://forum.pakistanidefence.com//style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/wacko.gif) (IMG:http://forum.pakistanidefence.com//style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/wacko.gif)

[Daredevil]

I think u guys don't have 150 million millionaires either.So don't cry abt the MKIs and do the same thing u adviced us.

India is the one perpetrating the arms race in South Asia with its hegemonistic ambition and dreams. From nuclear to conventional weapons, Pakistan is always reacting in self defense. So India should be more responsible in spending money on armaments at the expense of the poor.

PLEASE NO MOTHER OR SISTER BASHING

Many farmers are soo poor and in debt they even commiting suicide :

New York Times

Heavy Debt and Drought Drive India's Farmers to Desperation
By AMY WALDMAN

Published: June 6, 2004


NANTAPUR, India — For the 28th time in less than four hours, the telephone in the colonial-era district headquarters trilled.

"Hello, help line," Gurram Pramila answered, her pen poised to record yet another tale of financial distress.

A 55-year-old farmer who gave his name as Kadirappa was on the line, telling of a dry well on his eight acres and his $890 of debt. If the government did not help, he vowed, he would kill himself.

Ms. Pramila, a junior bureaucrat untutored in improving mental health, improvised. "Don't lose heart," she told Kadirappa. "Have faith in yourself."



The farmer's threat had the force of ominous context. In the past six years, 2,000 to 3,000 farmers (the state has not compiled an official tally) are believed to have committed suicide in this state, Andhra Pradesh, many of them in this arid district. Fifty to 100 have killed themselves since a new state government took office in mid-May, promising farmers relief.

A help line set up by the government on May 22 had already logged more than 800 calls a week later. Close to half were from this district, most of them fielded by Ms. Pramila.

The template of the calls — dry land and crushing debt — never varied, nor did their desperate tone.

Nine wells failed on 10 acres owned by a farmer named Umapatty, and he owed $4,400 to banks and moneylenders. J. Narayanappa had two dry wells on 20 acres, and owed $5,777. Ms. Pramila took down the details, and promised that an official would follow up.

Most of the suicidal farmers have swallowed pesticides, the easiest killer at hand. Burdened by compound interest, they compound tragedy, leaving families their debts, and depriving them of fathers, husbands and breadwinners.

"I would have thrown the pills out," said Pullamma, the haggard widow of Jayram Reddy, 52, who killed himself on May 22 by swallowing ammonium phosphate tablets in the village of Regadikothur.

He lay down on the family veranda to die, whispering to her that he could not bear the burden of more than $6,000 in debt. Now she will go to other farmers' fields to labor for 45 cents a day.

India has seen spates of similar suicides in recent years, in states from Punjab to Kerala. In part, the suicides reflect a rural culture in which excess indebtedness becomes a mark of shame, which private moneylenders and public creditors milk to try to collect.

But the dead farmers are also the canaries in the mine for India's agricultural economy — indicators of dire straits. Agriculture, which supports two-thirds of India's more than one billion people, generates only one-quarter of its gross domestic product. In the past five years, while the services sector has grown an average of 8 percent a year, agriculture has grown just 2 percent a year.

India's new government rode to power partly on the back of farmers' angst, but salving it will not be easy. In the farmers' plight, all the strands of an economy in transition intersect. This area had four successive years of drought, but the farmers have been buffeted by more than weather.

With small landholdings, constrained markets for their products, and an overdependence on subsidies for power and fertilizer, India's farmers were ill equipped to compete when the national government undertook economic reforms in 1991.

To a degree, the suicides reflect the farmers' bafflement at the gradual, and erratic, withdrawal of the state. They have felt the cost of reforms — but have yet to see the benefits.

Jayram Reddy was the second farmer in his village to kill himself. On Nov. 20, Nagalinga Reddy, no relation, took the same route, using the same method. The buildup to his death, at age 50, suggests the confluence of conditions that have driven farmers to desperation.

Nagalinga Reddy grew rice and sunflowers. Only 10 of his acres were irrigated. He sank five bore wells at a minimum cost of $200 apiece — but only two struck water.

In Nagalinga Reddy's village, the cost of powering the pumps had risen sevenfold in recent years, with the state government trying to wean farmers off free power.

The cost of fertilizers had risen, too, as the government sought to reduce subsides.

Nagalinga Reddy had regularly lost crops to drought, dry wells and pests in the past seven years. He had stopped farming cotton because of pests, which drove hundreds of farmers to suicide in Warangal, another of the state's districts. In October, by the time he scraped together the money to spray his crop, the pests had gotten it.

He was $9,000 in debt to three banks, one cooperative society and moneylenders. Bank officers regularly came to visit, and one bank took legal action. The moneylenders regularly harassed him. He avoided the ignominy of having the cooperative society post a public notice saying his land would be auctioned only by paying them a small sum.

The banks and cooperative societies, under pressure in an era of reform to show more fiscal responsibility, cut him off.

As access to formal credit has narrowed, the power of moneylenders — who charge at least 24 percent annual interest — has grown. Like most of his neighbors, Nagalinga Reddy turned to them. But by the time he died, a month after pests ate the rice crop, even the moneylenders considered him a bad risk.

Like many of the suicides, Nagalinga Reddy had been a step above the very poor. He owned 15 acres and had built a solid house with ceiling fans. He had rank in an upper caste. All of that seemed to make his fall in status that much harder to bear.

"My father was brave, but he could not withstand the pressure of the situation," said Tirumal Reddy, his gentle 21-year-old son.

His son is a 10th-grade graduate who had hoped to end the family's dependence on agriculture by becoming educated enough to get a government job. But he is as yoked to the fields as his illiterate father was. Even marriage is unthinkable until he clears the debt.

Farmers have also been affected by factors they may be only dimly aware of. Most states spend the bulk of their budgets on debt interest and salaries, which has left almost nothing to invest in irrigation. Ninety percent of this district is unirrigated, and thus depends on rain for water.

Agricultural markets remain heavily regulated, and because there are few facilities here to process agricultural products, almost every crop must be exported to another state, something beyond small farmers' capacity. They sell cheap to middlemen, who harvest far greater profit across state lines.

The opening of the Indian economy to imports has affected farmers as well. Some farmers in this district planted mulberry trees to produce silk — but demand dropped as raw China silk began flowing in. The main crop here, groundnut, or peanut, is processed into oil, but recently the poor have been forsaking local peanut oil for cheaper palm oil from Southeast Asia.

For now, the new state government is focusing on the symptoms of farmer distress, not the causes. Its first act was to declare free power for farmers and clear their arrears. The short-term relief will only add to the state's fiscal deficit, making infrastructure investment and power sector reform much harder.

Politicians also held a rally in Hyderabad, the state capital, to beg farmers not to take their lives, and state officials set up the help line.

The help line started the day Jayram Reddy died. In his case, the moneylenders had spared no cruelty to collect. One filed a police complaint against him; the police, probably bribed by the lender, hauled him in. Over the past two years moneylenders, regular visitors to his home, had taken his bullock cart, two bullocks and nine buffalo. They wanted to take his house, too.

On a recent day, women were whitewashing the walls of Jayram Reddy's house in a posthumous purification ritual. At the same time, three of his lenders were at a local government office to proclaim that they had not pressed him for repayment, and thus could not be held liable for his death.

They were also there to collect. As fellow villagers, they felt bad about Jayram Reddy's death, said a lender, N. Nagamunny. As lenders, they felt bad about their money. They wanted a piece of the government aid likely to be provided the family.

Their mercenary mission was a necessity, said one, Keshur Reddy. He had four daughters to marry off. To lend to Jayram Reddy, he had borrowed from someone else, and that someone was pressing him hard.

"If the money is not repaid to me," he said, "I'll commit suicide."

This post has been edited by STARSNSTRIPES: Jul 2 2004, 11:18 AM

[Ajgir]

India is the one perpetrating the arms race in South Asia with its hegemonistic ambition and dreams. From nuclear to conventional weapons, Pakistan is always reacting in self defense. So India should be more responsible in spending money on armaments at the expense of the poor.

Daredevil,

Pakistan is One-Fourth in Area as compared to India. Pakistani Population is One-Seventh as compared to India. Pakistani Economy was about One Seventh as compared to India, but after the Financial and Economic Miracle performed by Pakistan’s Wizard of a Finance Minister it is about One-Fifth to One-Sixth.

However the Pakistani Armed Forces Strength is HALF of India’s Armed Forces Strength.

As such it is difficult to agree with your blaming India for perpetrating the Arms Race when in fact it is Pakistan that is perpetrating the Arms Race.

BTW : You must also appreciate that China with Twice India’s Economy and a population 1.3 times that of India has a Defence Budget which is Four Times that of India with Three Times the Armed Forces Strength as compared to India.

Peace

[Tejas]

Valid Point Ajgir.


How much every one spends is his own buisness... try matching the amount.,, coz thats what india was trying

[Daredevil]

Daredevil,

Pakistan is One-Fourth in Area as compared to India. Pakistani Population is One-Seventh as compared to India. Pakistani Economy was about One Seventh as compared to India, but after the Financial and Economic Miracle performed by Pakistan’s Wizard of a Finance Minister it is about One-Fifth to One-Sixth.

However the Pakistani Armed Forces Strength is HALF of India’s Armed Forces Strength.

As such it is difficult to agree with your blaming India for perpetrating the Arms Race when in fact it is Pakistan that is perpetrating the Arms Race.

BTW : You must also appreciate that China with Twice India’s Economy and a population 1.3 times that of India has a Defence Budget which is Four Times that of India with Three Times the Armed Forces Strength as compared to India.

Peace

Why do you think that is ? Its because Pakistan was forced by circumstances to build a military force which can stand up to Indian aggression.

[Tejas]

Same is the case with India Vs China...

[Ajgir]

Why do you think that is ? Its because Pakistan was forced by circumstances to build a military force which can stand up to Indian aggression.

Daredevil,

What Pakistan spends on its Defence is none of my Business.

Pakistan is a Sovereign Nation and can spend whatever amount it likes on whatever Item it likes.

The only time I take up the issue is when India is accused of perpetrating an Arm Race by Pakistan when in Actual Fact it was Pakistan that started the Arms Race when it accepted Free Arms Aid From the USA in the early 1950sl, in a bid to become Equal=Equal with India, when there was no threat from India.

India has spent much less on Arms – on a per capita Basis than Pakistan – right up to the 1990s at which time the Indian Armed Forces were “Starved of Arms and Equipment”.

Now that the Indian Economic situation has improved India is making up for over Forty Years of “Starving” the Indian Armed Forces of Arms and Equipment.

India’s Defence Spending on a per capita Basis is still less then Pakistan’s Defence Spending on a per capita Basis.

You are forgetting the fact that India also has to contend with China.

Peace

[h177]

Daredevil,

Pakistan is One-Fourth in Area as compared to India. Pakistani Population is One-Seventh as compared to India. Pakistani Economy was about One Seventh as compared to India, but after the Financial and Economic Miracle performed by Pakistan’s Wizard of a Finance Minister it is about One-Fifth to One-Sixth.

However the Pakistani Armed Forces Strength is HALF of India’s Armed Forces Strength.

As such it is difficult to agree with your blaming India for perpetrating the Arms Race when in fact it is Pakistan that is perpetrating the Arms Race.

BTW : You must also appreciate that China with Twice India’s Economy and a population 1.3 times that of India has a Defence Budget which is Four Times that of India with Three Times the Armed Forces Strength as compared to India.

Peace

China total Armed forces Navy, Airforce, PLA is around 2 million after

recent cut.

India total Armed forces, Navy, Airforce, Army will be around 1.4 million.

So it does not look like 3 times.

PAF and PN combined will be around 50,000 add 500,000 land forces. It becomes

1/3 of India. And PAK land forces inlcudes every thing from Frontier core FC, to

ISI to all business and industrial enterprizes and defence production because the

personel deputed there are most from Active service.. And I am sure RAW will be

not part of India armed force nor is DRDO or HAL or ADA personel. So unless

the whole data is available it is difficult to make judgement. And remember 1

person in Airforce or Navy is much more costly than 1 person in Army.

[Daredevil]

Daredevil,

What Pakistan spends on its Defence is none of my Business.

Pakistan is a Sovereign Nation and can spend whatever amount it likes on whatever Item it likes.

The only time I take up the issue is when India is accused of perpetrating an Arm Race by Pakistan when in Actual Fact it was Pakistan that started the Arms Race when it accepted Free Arms Aid From the USA in the early 1950sl, in a bid to become Equal=Equal with India, when there was no threat from India.

India has spent much less on Arms – on a per capita Basis than Pakistan – right up to the 1990s at which time the Indian Armed Forces were “Starved of Arms and Equipment”.

Now that the Indian Economic situation has improved India is making up for over Forty Years of “Starving” the Indian Armed Forces of Arms and Equipment.

India’s Defence Spending on a per capita Basis is still less then Pakistan’s Defence Spending on a per capita Basis.

You are forgetting the fact that India also has to contend with China.

Peace

That is the most the ridiculous point i ever heard and only a hindoo monkey would make such an argument. :lol: :lol: :lol: India is only making up for forty years of starving... (w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

[Daredevil]

Looks like the new government is listening to me. (w00t) (w00t) (w00t) (w00t)
Maybe the Sikhs makes more sense than the Hindoo monkeys. :lol: :lol:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3855517.stm

India PM pledge over suicide farms


Manmohan Singh is expected to announce compensation
Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has promised assistance to families of farmers who have committed suicide in southern India.
Mr Singh is visiting Andhra Pradesh, where nearly 3000 farmers have taken their lives because of crippling debt.

The prime minister's visit is his first since taking office in May.

It comes a week before his newly elected Congress government presents its first federal budget, which is expected to be pro-farmer.

Correspondents say Mr Singh's visit is aimed at showing his government's commitment to poor Indian farmers, who had felt largely excluded from the economic reforms of the previous government.

Distress and havoc

The prime minister announced a federal compensation of 50,000 rupees ($1,136) to each family where a farmer had committed suicide.

This is in addition to the 150,000 rupees ($3,400) compensation announced by the state government to every affected family.

In his meetings with villagers, Mr Singh said he would ensure that banks provide assistance to the families, and one member of every family gets a job.

  If farmers are committing suicides in such a large number, it is a sad situation

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh 

Mr Singh met residents of Somayjulapalle village, where at least 53 farmers have taken their lives in the past six years after failing to pay off loans.

The BBC's Omer Farooq reports that the village is a picture of distress and havoc caused by a five-year-long drought.

"I also come from a farmer's family and I have some idea of the suffering and difficulties of the farmers," Mr Singh told the villagers.

"But after what I have seen and heard here today, I have come to know the extent of the sufferings and losses of the farmers for the first time."

Mr Singh announced a special assistance package for the village to build irrigation tanks, provide piped water, build high schools and improve roads.

Suffering for long

Farmers have been taking their lives in Andhra Pradesh and neighbouring Karnataka state after failing to repay high-interest loans from private money lenders.

Analysts say the spate of suicides points to the complete collapse of cheap and affordable government credit to farmers.

FARMING IN ANDHRA PRADESH
There are 11 million farmers in the Andhra Pradesh
90% of them are small farmers
The state has been suffering from drought since 2001
70% of the state's 78 million people are dependent on agriculture 
Though overall interest rates have dropped in India, banks are hesitant to offer cheap credit to farmers, fearing defaults.

"A rich man can buy a Mercedes Benz at 4% interest rate, but the farmer is charged 13% to15% for buying a tractor. This is very strange," Andhra Pradesh chief minister YS Rajashekhar Reddy told a meeting recently.

The suicides have continued even since Mr Reddy's newly elected Congress party state government promised a relief package for families of farmers who had committed suicide.


Drought is becoming a way of life for the farmers
Farm associations say the farmers have been suffering ever since economic reforms began in India in 1991.

They say they are paying more for electricity, fertiliser and loans. But the prices of their produce have been rising slowly, leading to losses.

"The crisis did not come overnight. It is the result of policies of the past many years, which were not favourable to the farmers," P Changala Reddy, chief of a farmers grouping told Associated Press.

[alexi]

congree is as hard as BJP when it comes to national security look all the major wars we have fought were in congress rule so stopping spending is just a hype.

[Rahul]

[SIZE=7]INDIA SPENDS FIVE TIMES AS MUCH ON DEFENSE THAN PAKISTAN

THIS DISPITE HAVING A 2% BUDGET ALLOCATION OF ITS GDP..... THIS IS ONE OF THE LOWEST DEFENSE EXP IN THE WORLD.

PAKISTAN ONE OF THE SMALLEST GDPS IN THE WORLD SPENDS OVER 4,5 %..

depriving its people of a chance to build a strong economy like its giant neighbour india.

[vikasrehman]

Ajgir

Pakistan is One-Fourth in Area as compared to India. Pakistani Population is One-Seventh as compared to India. Pakistani Economy was about One Seventh as compared to India, but after the Financial and Economic Miracle performed by Pakistan’s Wizard of a Finance Minister it is about One-Fifth to One-Sixth.

However the Pakistani Armed Forces Strength is HALF of India’s Armed Forces Strength.

As such it is difficult to agree with your blaming India for perpetrating the Arms Race when in fact it is Pakistan that is perpetrating the Arms Race.

BTW : You must also appreciate that China with Twice India’s Economy and a population 1.3 times that of India has a Defence Budget which is Four Times that of India with Three Times the Armed Forces Strength as compared to India.

Compare these statistics for china and Taiwan 2.
hmmmmm...One cant blame china for starting the arms race???

PS. One should not only take inot cosideration per capita/economy size but also the overall areas to protect, i.e. length of borders etc...as well as strategic issues.

[vikasrehman]

THIS DISPITE HAVING A 2% BUDGET ALLOCATION OF ITS GDP..... THIS IS ONE OF THE LOWEST DEFENSE EXP IN THE WORLD.

PAKISTAN ONE OF THE SMALLEST GDPS IN THE WORLD SPENDS OVER 4,5 %..

depriving its people of a chance to build a strong economy like its giant neighbour india.

Well, china spends around 5% on armed forces, which some may think of as depriving its ppl of a chnace to build a strong economy. But can indians even dream of catching up with them???

[Ajgir]

[SIZE=7]INDIA SPENDS FIVE TIMES AS MUCH ON DEFENSE THAN PAKISTAN

THIS DISPITE HAVING A 2% BUDGET ALLOCATION OF ITS GDP..... THIS IS ONE OF THE LOWEST DEFENSE EXP IN THE WORLD.

PAKISTAN ONE OF THE SMALLEST GDPS IN THE WORLD SPENDS OVER 4,5 %..

depriving its people of a chance to build a strong economy like its giant neighbour india.

Rahul,

India would strain her resources if she spends Five Times as much as Pakistan in respect of “Real” Annual Defence Spending.

India’s Annual Defence Budget is USD 14-16 Billions Officially including the Wages, Benefits, Pensions etc. of the Armed Forces Personnel.

Pakistan’s Annual Defence Budget is about USD 3.3 to 3.5 Billion but without the Wages, Benefits, Pensions etc. of the Armed forces Personnel.

Indians Annual Spending in terms of Wages, Benefits, Pensions etc. is about USD 8.5 Billions.

India’s Armed Forces Strength is 1,200,000

Pakistan’s Armed Forces Strength is 650,000

I leave it to you as to the “Real” Annual Defence Spending.

Peace

[Ajgir]

Ajgir



Compare these statistics for china and Taiwan 2.
hmmmmm...One cant blame china for starting the arms race???

PS. One should not only take inot cosideration per capita/economy size but also the overall areas to protect, i.e. length of borders etc...as well as strategic issues.

vikasrehman

INDIA

Land Boundries : Total 14,103 km

Border Countries: Bangladesh 4,053 km, Bhutan 605 km, Burma 1,463 km, China 3,380 km, Nepal 1,690 km, Pakistan 2,912 km

Agreed that India has no problem with Bhutan, Burma and Nepal and as such India has to Guard a Total of 10,345 Kilo Metres.

Coastline: 7,000 km

PAKISTAN

Land boundaries: Total: 6,774 km
Border countries: Afghanistan 2,430 km, China 523 km, India 2,912 km, Iran 909 km

You will agree that Pakistan has no problems with its Brotherly Islamic Countries like Afghanistan and Iran or with China with which Pakistan has Longstanding – over Fifty Years - Fraternal and Friendly relations. Thus Pakistan has only 2,912 Kilo Metres to guard against potential Attack.

Coastline: 1,046 km

This proves that India must have at least 3.5 the Strength of Land Forces i.e. Army as Pakistan and at least Seven Times the Naval Strength as that of Pakistan. Since the Indian Air Force will also be required to assist the Indian Navy for Air Defence so that the Indian Air force Strength should be at Least Five times that of Pakistan

In addition in respect of Strategic Issues I believe India’s Industrialization is about 21 Times that of Pakistan (I read this in the Pakistani Media some time last year and will try and locate the Article)

So Respected Friend India’s Annual Defence Spending fall short of reflecting the Defence Requirements of the Country.

Pakistan started the Arms Race in the early 1950s. Chinese Arms Build-up i.e. Arms Race started in the late Fifties (Please correct me if necessary) but India could not devote a similar – comparatively – amount of resources as the form of Government in India did not and does not allow the Government to ride rough shod on the people.

With the amount of Poverty prevailing and lack of resources India “muddled” along diverting its meagre resources to Social, Industrial and Human Resources Development and Starved the Armed Forces.

Came the 1990s and India went in for the Reforms and Opening up of its Economy. India’s Economy was about 3 to 4 Times Pakistan’s Economy in the early 1990s. Today as per World Bank Figures it is over Seven times that of Pakistan. However since you do not accept World Bank Figures for Pakistan still India’s World Bank Economy Figures are over 5.5 Times that of Pakistan’s Economy figures which have benefited by the Addition of Ten or more Sectors like Courier, Telecommunications etc.

As such India can increase its Annual Defence Spending up to a minimum of Five Times that of Pakistan or at least Half that of China - IMO which ever is less – but then this might cause the Poverty Levels to Increase which is not the ideal situation. You will note that from 1985 or so till today Pakistan’s Poverty Levels which were on the basis of USD ONE per day were 17% but today on the Basis of USD HALF i.e. FIFTY CENTS has increased to 33% or so. In comparison India’s Poverty Level on the Basis of USD ONE were 45% but now are 26%.

I hasten to add that India’s Poverty Level of even 26% is too much as it means a Total of about 270 Million People. Pakistan’s Poverty Level BASIS USD ONE per day might be around 40% but then that is only 60 Million People – a far cry from 270 Million People.

Peace

[Ajgir]

Well, china spends around 5% on armed forces, which some may think of as depriving its ppl of a chnace to build a strong economy. But can indians even dream of catching up with them???

vikasrehman

I have said it many times and will once again reiterate that China is Three Times the Size of India with Twice the Economy, 1.3 times the Population and may be Four Times the Natural Resources.

As such India cannot catch up with China.

India may catch up with Pakistan but then the Credit of India Catching Up with Pakistan will not go to India. The Credit of India Catching Up with Pakistan will go to Pakistan.

The justification of Pakistan spending over 4.5% of its GDP on Annual Defence Spending being that China is spending 5-6% is very good indeed as this is a sure sign that one day Pakistan will catch up with China.

BTW : China’s Annual Defence Spending is USD 60 Billion.

Peace.

[Ajgir]

Sorry - Double Post

Peace.

[Rudraksh]

Well, china spends around 5% on armed forces, which some may think of as depriving its ppl of a chnace to build a strong economy. But can indians even dream of catching up with them???

Vikas, it is not India's intention to catch up with China in military spending. They, the Chinese, have different priorities than us, they have different strategic objectives than us, they dream of taking on the US ASAP, its their stated objective, and to that end, they would spend a significant amount on their military!

India too has strategic objectives, but different from that of China's. Also, China is a far bigger country with more potential adversaries than India....so where is the question of equating India and China.

PS: As you said, many in this forum criticize India for spending a "huge" amount on its military, although given the chance, they would spend the same in much the same way, but.........its not often, in fact never, that u hear anyone criticizing China for spending as much as it does..........why.....coz China is ur ally :) So to about human rights......Its funny where the morality and righteousness goes when it comes to China :)

[Rahul]

Aigir

When did Pakistan have the money to spend $$$$$$ 8.5 billion a year on defense.......

Pakistan is so poor they could n,t spend that in 3 years.........

Why else do you think they have T59 tanks and F7 fighters which are both dirt cheap.......

IF pAKISTAN SPENT $8 BILLION DOLLARS the country wud collapse.

Good god $8 billion is half the Gov,t total budget for all services annouced last week which include health education and public services....

Just grow up man.,,,,, WHO YOU TRYING TO KID......

[Ajgir]

Rahul,

I have not said that Pakistan’s Annual Defence Spending is USD 8 Billion.

Facts :

- Pakistan’s Annual Defence Spending of USD 3.3 to 3.5 Million DOES NOT INCLUDE the Pakistani Armed Forces’ Personnel Spending in respect of Wages, Benefits, Pensions etc. This is a Fact of Life.

- The Pakistani Armed Forces’ Personnel are Better Paid, Have Better Perquisites and Better Benefits including the Land gifts of up to 400 Acres as well as better Benefits and Welfare whilst on Pension. All these Expenses are included in the “Government Employees Wages, Benefits, Pensions etc.

Thus in view of Pakistan’s Armed Forces Personnel Strength being slightly above half the number of Indian Armed Forces’ Personnel Strength then in the light of the paragraph it is for you to decide if the Pakistani Armed Forces’ Personnel Wages, Benefits, Pensions Annual Bill would amount to USD One Billion or USD Two Billion or USD Three Billion or USD Four Billion or USD Five Billion.

Pakistan’s Annual Defence Spending has not Collapsed – taking its Armed Forces’ Annual Defence Spending – for the last 57 Years and I do not foresee any such problem in the Future.

Peace

[h177]

Rahul,

India would strain her resources if she spends Five Times as much as Pakistan in respect of “Real” Annual Defence Spending.

India’s Annual Defence Budget is USD 14-16 Billions Officially including the Wages, Benefits, Pensions etc. of the Armed Forces Personnel.

Pakistan’s Annual Defence Budget is about USD 3.3 to 3.5 Billion but without the Wages, Benefits, Pensions etc. of the Armed forces Personnel.

Indians Annual Spending in terms of Wages, Benefits, Pensions etc. is about USD 8.5 Billions.

India’s Armed Forces Strength is 1,200,000

Pakistan’s Armed Forces Strength is 650,000

I leave it to you as to the “Real” Annual Defence Spending.

Peace

Ajgir.

If you have more credible source than Military technology? published by

McGrawHill Inc. The clearly states that Indian defence budget does not include

Pensions, weopon development and coast gurad etc.

And show me one credible source which states Pakistan defence budget does not

include wages?. Pakistan defence budget also includes weopon development and

nuclear weopons , ISI and Parmilitaries. which is not the case with India.

Asia and Far East: India

4,751 words
1 January 2003
Military Technology
280
Volume 27; Issue 1; ISSN: 07223226
English
.

Prime Minister: Atal Behari Vajpayee Defence Minister: George Fernandes

General Data

Area: 3.3 million sq.km (1.3 million sq. miles) including Indian Kashmir: 55% arable, 4% meadows and pastures, 23% forested and woodland, 17% other.

Coastline: 7,516km (4,670 miles) including offshore islands.

Maritime claims: Territorial waters 22km (12nm); continguous zone 44km (24nm); EEZ 370km (200nm); continental shelf 200nm or edge of continental margin.

Population: 1,045,845,226 (July 2002 est.); annual growth rate 1.51% (2002 est.). The population is 72% Indo-Aryan, 25% Dravidian, 3% Mongoloid and other

Religion: 80% Hindu, 14% Muslim, 2.4% Christian, 2.0% Sikh, 0.7% Buddhists, 0.5% Jain, 0.4% others.

Language: Hindi, English and 14 other official languages. Numerous other languages and dialects.

Literacy rate: 52%.

Government

Long-form or legal name: Republic of India (Bharat).

Type of government: Federal Republic.

Administrative divisions: 28 states, 7 Union Territories.

Legal system: Based on English common law; limited judicial review of legislative acts.

Branches of government: Representative President; Executive (Prime Minister and Cabinet); Cabinet appointed by the President on the recommendation of the Prime Minister; bicameral legislature: 545-seat Lok Sabha (People's Assembly) and 250-- seat Rajya Sabha (States Assembly); independent judiciary.

Suffrage: Universal over age 18.

Member of: UN, ICAO, Commonwealth, SARC/ SAPTA and others.

Economy

GDP: US2.5 trillion (2001 est.), US$2,500 per capita; real growth rate 5% (2001 est.)

Balance of trade: Imports, US$53.8 billion (f.o.b., 2001); exports, US$44.5 billion (f.o.b., 2001).

Budget: Revenues, US$48.3 billion; expenditures, US$78.2 billion (FY01/02 est.).

Defence

Structure:

The President is the titular Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces. Supreme responsibility for national defence rests with the Cabinet headed by the Prime Minister; the Cabinet's Committee on Political Affairs, chaired by the Prime Minister, formulates the main foreign and defence policy guidelines. The Ministry of Defence is the central regulating body for policy decisions on all matters relating to the defence of the country. It comprises of three Departments viz., the Department of Defence (DoD), the Department of Defence Production and Supplies (DDP&S) and the Department of Defence Research & Development (DDR&D), plus a Finance Division. The principal task of the Defence Ministry as such is to obtain policy directions of the Government on all defence and security related matters and communicate them for implementation to the Services HQs, inter-services organisations, production establishments, and R&D organisations. It is also required to ensure effective implementation of the Government's policy directions and the execution of approved programmes within the aliocated resources. The Raksha Mantri (Defence Minister) is the head of the Ministry of Defence.

The Department of Defence deals with the three Services and with inter-services organisations. It is also responsible for the defence budget, establishment matters, defence policy, matters relating to Parliament, defence co-operation with foreign countries and co-ordination of all activities. The Defence Secretary functions as head of the DoD and is additionally responsible for co-ordinating the activities of the three Departments in the Ministry. The DDP&S the DDR&D and the Finance Division are each headed by a Secretary. The Committee of Secretaries, chaired by the Defence Minister and comprising the Defence and Defence Production Secretaries, the Financial and Scientific Advisors and the three Chiefs of Staff, formulate defence plans and considers all matters concerning the three services.

A new defence procurement organisation is being implemented. This include a Defence Acquisition Council (headed by the Prime Ministert), Defence Procurement Board (headed by the Defence Secretary), Defence Production Board, Defence R&D Board, and Acquisition Wing.

The three Service HQs are not a part of the MoD. and are responsible only for organisational management, operational plans, training, and administration The senior Chief of Staff is also the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff Committee, but this is currently a largely ceremonial position. The MoD has confirmed plans for the establishment of a joint command structure headed by a Chief of Defence Staff, but this is still being resisted by the Services. No firm deadline haas been established for the first CDS to be appointed.

The Integrated Defence Staff, activated in October 2001 is responsible for operational planning, intelligence and medical support, and its Chief (CIDS) reports directly to the Chairman of the JCSC. The responsibilities of the CIDS were originally expected to fall under the Vice Chief of Defence Staff. A first inter-service command, the Far Eastern Command (also referred to as Andaman & Nicobar Command) was activated in late 2001 at Port Blair (Bay of Bengal) with Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard units under it.

Total active manpower: About 1,210,000.

Para-military forces: 30,000 Rasthtriya Rifles (30 infantry battalions, under the MoD); Central Reserve Police Force 125,000, Indo-Tibetan Border Police 10,000, Special Frontier Force 8,000-10,000 (all parachute-qualified), Central Industrial Security Force 8,000, National Security Guard 6,300 (includes 4,000 Special Action Group and 2,300 Special Ranger Group), Special Protection Group 1,500 (VIP protection).

Conscription: None, all-volunteer forces.

Defence budget: Rs. 650 billion (US$13.3 billion), 2.8% of GDP (FY02/03).

NB: The defence budget does not include expenditures for pensions (under the Finance Ministry), the Coast Guard (under the Finance Ministry), the nuclear weapons programme and the ATV nuclear submarine project (under Government's discretionary funds), and all of the paramilitary forces (under the Interior Ministry).

Strategic Forces

The key tenets of India's nuclear doctrine have been officially summarised as follows: The AGNI II MRBM was shown in public for the first time during the Republic Day parade on 26 January 2003. (Photo: Indian Information Service)

- Building and maintaining a credible minimum deterrent;

- A posture of "No First Use," whereby nuclear weapons will only be used in retaliation against a nuclear attack on Indian territory or on Indian forces anywhere;

- Nuclear retaliation to a first strike will be massive and designed to inflict unacceptable damage;

- Nuclear retaliatory attacks can only be authorised by the civilian political leadership through the Nuclear Command Authority;

- Non-use of nuclear weapons against non-nuclear weapon states. However, in the event of a major attack against India, or Indian forces anywhere, by biological or chemical weapons, India will retain the option of retaliating with nuclear weapons;

- A continuance of strict controls on export of nuclear and missile related materials and technologies, participation in the Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty negotiations, and continued observance of the moratorium on nuclear tests;

- Continued commitment to the goal of a nuclear weapon free world, through global, verifiable and non-discriminatory nuclear disarmament.

The Nuclear Command Authority comprises a Political Council and an Executive Council. The Political Council is chaired by the Prime Minister, and it is the sole body which can authorise the use of nuclear weapons. The Executive Council is chaired by the National Security Advisor, and it provides inputs for decision-making by the Nuclear Command Authority and executes the directives given to it by the Political Council.

In June 2001, the Army was appointed as the responsible service for AGNI II deployment. This is a temporary measure, as a tri-service Strategic Forces Command has been established, than will control all nuclear assets in the Army, Air Force and Navy inventory as regards both operational and administrative aspects. The SFC is headed by a C-in-C to be rotated between the three Services, who currently reports to the Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee (to be the Chief of Defence Staff when established) who in turn is responsible to the NCA. The Indian nuclear deterrent is expected to be eventually based on a classical "triad" of land-based and ship-launched ballistic missiles as well as combat aircraft, and will be backed by the relevant structures for operational planning and training. Nuclear weapons are supposed to be available in the form of gravity bombs for the JAGUARs and/or MIRAGE 2000Hs and Su-30MKs as well as warheads for the AGNI I/II MRBM/IRBMs. The PRITHVI surface-- to-surface missile is deployed exclusively as a conventional warhead weapon, and no nuclear warheads will be developed for it. Despite this, the PRITHVI appears to have a strategic rather than tactical (battlefied support) role. The TAL WAR, lead ship in a class of three Russian-built modern frigates for the Indian Navy, is shown here during her sea trials in the Baltic. She was formally commissioned in October 2002. (Photo: India-facts.com)

The AGNI II IRBM (2,100kin range with a 700kg payload) is described as being operational, while the shorter-range AGNI I MRBM version (700km range) is now entering service. The development programme of the 3,500kmn-range AGNI III system was officially confirmed in late 2002, and a first test launch is tentatively planned for late 2003/early 2004. Mention has been made of a programme for the 10,000km-range SURYA ICBM.

Navy

Personnel: 55,000 (includes 5,900 Naval Air and 1,000 Marines), 15,300 Coast Guard.

Structure:

Navy HQs (New Dehli) has 3 Naval Commands: Western Naval Command (HQ Mumbai), Southern Naval Command (Kochi), Eastern Naval Command ((HQ Vizag). The Southern Command is responsible for training. The Far Eastern Command (also referred to as Andaman & Nicobar Command) in Port Blair is a unified inter-service command.

NB: A new Force Level Structure Document calls for the future fleet to be organised on two carrier tasks forces, with a total of 125 warships. The minimum submarine force level has been established at 24 boats.

Fleet:

Aircraft carriers:

1 VIRAAT (ex-HMS HERMES)

NB: A preliminary Letter of Intent has been signed covering the transfer of the mothballed Russian STOVL carrier, ADMIRAL GORSHKOV and her conversion to a ski-jump assisted CTOL configuration. Contractual negotiations are tentatively projected to be completed by March 2003, in a "package deal" that will also include the lease of two AKULA class SSNs and some Tu-22M3 bombers.

The preliminary design phase of a CTOL carrier (Air Defence Ship, ADS) to replace the VIRAAT was completed in 2002, with displacement being increased from some 24,000 to 33,000 tons.

Destroyers:

3 DELHI class DDGs

3 RAJPUT class DDGs (KASHIN type)

2 RANVIR class DDGs (Improved KASHIN type)

NB: A repeat series of 3 improved DELHI class DDGs (Projet 15A, BANGALORE class) is planned, and the first ship was ordered in mid-2001.

Frigates:

1+2 TALWAR class (see notes)

2+1 BRAHMAPUTRA class (see notes)

3 GODAVARI class (modified LEANDER design)

4 NILGIRI class (LEANDER design) (to be progressively withdrawn)

NB: The 3rd and last BRAHMAPUTRA class missile frigate (Project 16A) is under construction. The TALWAR, lead ship in a class of 3 frigates (modified KRIVAK III design) built in Russian yards to replace the NILGIRIs, was commissioned in October 2002 and will be followed by the 2nd and 3rd unit in 2003 and 2004, respectively. The first 3 units in a proposed class of up to 12 follow-on frigates (Project 17A, NILGIRI class) have been ordered, and the lead ship is under construction for commissioning in December 2005.

Submarines:

10 SINDHUGHOSH class (KILO type)

4 SHISHUMAR class (Type 209/1500)

NB: Contractual negotiations for the lease of two Russian AKULA class SSNs are expected to be completed by March 2003. The ATV (Advanced Technology Vessel) programme for a nuclear-powered attack submarine is underway, and a class of five boats is planned. Negotiations are underway for 6 SCORPENE-type submarines to be built in India with French/Spanish assistance (Project 75). Tentative plans have been formulated for the licence construction of Russian AMUR type SSKs. The SINDHUGHOSHs are being progressively modified to launch the 3M-54E ALFA cruise missile.

Corvettes:

6 SUYANKA class (see also under Coast Guard)

4 KHUKRI class

4 KORA class

2 DURG class (NANUCHKA type)

12 VEER class (TARANTUL I type)

2+ PRABAL class (TARANTUL IV type)

4 ABHAY class (ex-USSR PAUK type)

Light forces:

2+2 T-80 class coastal FAC

(Super DVORA MkII type)(see notes)

4 TRINKAT class (SDB Mk5) patrol craft

4 SDB Mk2/3M class patrol boats

38 inshore and offshore patrol craft (Coast Guard)

NB: Two additional T-80 (Super DVORA MkII) costal FAC are being built under Israeli licence, and this is expected to be followed by a series of 15 craft for both the Navy and the Coast Guard.

Mine warfare forces:

12 PONDICHERRY class

(ex-USSR NATYA class) ocean minesweepers

6 MAHE class (ex-USSR YEVGENYA class) inshore minesweepers

NB: A new class on 10 MCMVs is planned.

Amphibious forces:

8 ex-USSR POLNOCNY class

2+1 MAGAR class LSTs

7 LCUs

NB: The purchase of a first batch of 6 Russian MURENA (Project 12061) air cushion landing craft is planned, with licence construction to follow.

Major auxiliaries:

4 fleet replenishment vessels, 2 submarine tenders.

NB: The programme for the TRISHUL SAM system is experiencing serious delays and technical problems. As a "gap filler", 7 Israeli BARAK systems have been ordered to equip the VIRAAT, the DELHIs and the RAJPUTs. The BRAHMOS antiship missile is being developed in cooperation with Russia for a variety of applications.

Naval Aviation:

Personnel: About 7,000

Combat: 1 attack squadron (300 Sqn. "White Tigers" at Goa) with 19 SEA HARRIER FRS.51s (shipborne)

4 maritime reconnaissance squadrons: 312 Sqn. "Albatross" at Arakkonam with 8 Tu-142M BEAR-- Fs, 315 Sqn. "Winged Stallions" at Goa with 3 Il-38 MAYs, 318 Sqn. "Hawks" at Port Blair with 15 BN-- 2A MARITIME DEFENDERs and Do-228s, 550 Sqn. "Flying Fish" at Kochi with BN-2B/T ISLANDERs

4 ASW squadrons: 333 Sqn. "Eagles" at Vizag with

6 Ka-25 HORMONEs and 6 Ka-27 HELIXs, 330 Sqn. "Harpoons" at Mumbai with 20 SEA KINGs (also SAR and transport), 336 Sqn. "Flaming Harrows" at Kochi with 12 SEA KINGs (also antiship roles with SEA EAGLE missiles), 339 Sqn. "Falcons" at Mumbai with 6 Ka-27 HELIXs

1 EW (ELINT/SIGINT) squadron (310 Sqn. "Cobras" at Goa) with 6 Do-228s

Training/liaison/light transport: 551 Sqn. "Phantoms" at Goa ("A" Flight with 12HJT-16 KIRANs, "B" Flight with 2 SEA HARRIER T60 and 2 T.Mk4 trainers), 321 Sqn. "Angels" at Mumbai and 561 Sqn. (Training School) at Arakkonam with a total of some 30 CHETAKs.

NB: The Tu-142Ms and the Il-38s are wired for SEA EAGLE anti-ship missiles. Deliveries of a first batch of 12 ALH helicopters started in March 2002. Tentative plans are being formulated for the purchase of either additional 11-38s from Russian surplus or P-3 ORIONs from US surplus. A framework agreement signed with Russia in November 1999 includes a possible order for up to 60 MiG-29K/-29KUB shipborne fighters to equip both the ex-ADMIRAL GORSHKOV and the ADS, but the RAFALE is also being officially considered as a possible alternative. 9 Ka-31 AEW helicopters are on order in two batches (4+5) with delivery to start in late 2002 and be completed in 2003. Negotiations for the purchase or loan of 4 Tu-22M3 bombers are expected to be completed by March 2003.

Coastal defence: SS-C-3 missile batteries.

Coast Guard:

NB: Although listed here for reference purposes, the Coast Guard is an independent service.

Fleet:

3+2 SAMAR class OPVs (see notes)

9 VIKRAM class OPVs (P957 design)

Aviation: Some 12 Do-228s, some 30+ CHETAKs (planned total 68).

NB: A further 2 SAMARs (modified SUKANYAs) are under construction. Unspecified numbers of T-80 coastal FAC (Super DVORA MIl) are to be procured. Both the SAMARs and the VIKRAMs can operate a CHETAK (ALOUETTE) helicopter. Deliveries of LAI helicopters started in March 2002.

Major naval and naval aviation bases: Arakonam, Mumbai, Calcutta, Cochin, Goa, Jamnagar, Lonavala, New Delhi, Port Blair, Vishakhapatnam, Ramnad. A new naval based is being established at Karwar (project SEABIRD).

Land Forces

Personnel: 980,000, plus 300,000 first-line and 500,000 second-line reserves and 40,000 Territorial Army. A couple of Indian Army TUNGUSKA SPAAGs during the Republic Day parade. (Photo: bharat-raskshak) Indian artillery in action against Muslim guerrilla positions in Kashmir. (Photo: "Joint Force Quarterly")

NB: A personnel reduction by some 20-25% is to be implemented by 2010 in order to release funds for equipment modernisation.

Structure:

Army HS (New Delhi) controls 1 functional command (Training Command) and 5 regional commands with a total of 12 Corps, as follows:

- Northern Command (HQ Udhampur): XIV Corps (Leh), XV Corps (Srinagar) and XVI Corps (Nagrota)

- Eastern Command (HQ Calcutta): III Corps (Dimapur), IV Corps (Tezpur) and XXXIII Corps (Siliguri)

- Western Command (HQ Chandigarth): II (Strike) Corps (Ambala), X Corps (Bhatinda) and XI Corps (Jalandhar)

- Southern Command (HQ Poona): XII Corps (Jodhpur), XXI (Strike) Corps (Bhopal)

- Central Command (HQ Lucknow): I (Strike) Corps (Mathura)

The Far Eastern Command (also referred to as Andaman & Nicobar Command) is a unified inter-service command.

Field formations include:

3 armoured divisions

22 infantry divisions

(including 4 new-structure RAPID divisions)

10 mountain divisions

1 artillery division

5 independent armoured brigades

7 independent infantry brigades

1 independent parachute brigade

15 independent artillery brigades

6 air defence brigades

4 engineer brigades

1 strategic rocket regiment (AGNI II)

3 missile groups (333rd, 444th and 555th)(each with 12 PRITHVI launchers)

NB: The RAPID (Reorganised Army Plans Infantry Division) divisions each include a mechanised infantry brigade.

Equipment:

MBTs: Some 80+ T-90S (more being delivered, see notes), some 300- T-55s (9 regiments, being progressively withdrawn), some 1,700 T-72/T-72MI AJEYAs (35 regiments), some 500 VIJAYANTAs (12 regiments)(to be all withdrawn)(another 700+ VIJAYANTAs are stored)(see notes)

AIFVs and APCs: 800+ BMP-1s and BMP-2s, some remaining BTR-50/-60/-152s, some 100 CASSPIR Mk2s

Artillery: 105mm Light Guns, about 480 M-46 130mm (36 regiments), 410 FH-77Bs 155mm (see notes)

Mortars: 500 81mm, 120mm

RCLs: 106mm

MRL: 80 BM-21s (122mm), SMERCH (being delivered)

ATK weapons: 57mm, 100mm guns

ATGW: SS-11, ENTAC, MILAN, SNAPPER, SAGGER

AA guns: 20 mm, 40 mm, 3.7in, L-40/70, ZSU-23-- 4 SP The Soltam ATMOS 2000 truck-mounted 155mm/52cal. system of a leading contender for the Indian Army's artillery rationalisation programme. (Photo: Soltam)

SSMs: 40+ PRITHVI I/IIs (see also under "Strategic Forces")

SAMs: 40 TIGERCATs, 120 SA-6, SA-7, SA-8, SA-9, 50 SA-13, SA-18s, 12 TUNGUSKA SPAAGs

Army aviation: See under Air Force. Helicopter units are attached to and operationally controlled by the Army, but belongs to the Air Force.

NB: Series production of a batch of 124 ARJUN MBTs was formally launched back in 1999 for delivery to be completed in 2004, but the tank is not yet operational. Deliveries of a batch of 124 Russian-- built T-90S MBTs are underway, to be followed by local assembly of a further 186 tanks. Plans for the modernisation of some 300 T-72s have been put on hold in order to divert money to accelerate T-90S procurement.

The Field Artillery Rationalisation Plan calls for all SP and towed artillery assets, with the only exception of 105mm Light Guns for use by mountain and parachute units, to be progressively standardised on a 155mm/52 cal. ordnance. RfPs have been circulated for 200 towed pieces and as many SP systems on wheeled chassis. The programme for a 155mm SP system on ARJUN chassis has been shelved.

Some 40 early-series PRITHVI Is (150km range) are already in service with the Army, and series production of a batch of up to 300 missiles was launched in 2001. Although the PRITHVI was originally intended to be produced in both a 150km-range version for the Army and a 250km-range model for the Air Force, all series missiles are 250km variants. Unspecified numbers of the SMERCH artillery rocket system are being acquired. Eight AN/TPQ-37 FIREFINDER counter-battery artillery radars on order.

Air Force

Personnel: 110,000.

Structure: Air HQs (New Bethi) controls five operational and two functional commands: Western Air Command (HQ Palam, New Delhi), South-Western Air Command (HQ Gandhinagar), Eastern Air Command (HQ Shillong), Central Air Command (HQ Allahabad), Souther Air Command (HQ Trivandrum), Training Command, Maintenance Command. The Far Eastern Command (also referred to as Andaman & Nicobar Command) in Port Blair is a unified inter-service command.

A "minimum goal" has been established for a structure with 41 combat squadrons (of which 1/3rd equipped with multi-role aircraft) and 10 transport squadrons to be achieved by 2015.

Combat:

15 air defence squadrons: 3 (28 Sqn."First Supersonics" and 47 Sqn. "Black Archers" at Poona, 223 Sqn. "Tridents" at Adampur) with some 55 MiG-- 29/-29UB (BAAZs)(a few more may be stored), 2 (1 Sqn. "Tigers" and 7 Sqn. "Battle Axes" at Gwalior) with 35 MIRAGE 2000H/2000THs (VAJRAs)(total inventory 44), 10 (3 Sqn. "Rattlers" and 15 Sqn. "Flying Lances" at Pathankot, 4 Sqn. "Oorials" at Jaisselmer, 21 Sqn. "Ankush" at Chandigarh, 23 Sqn. "Cheetahs" at Ambala, 26 Sqn. "Warriors", 32 Sqn. "Thunderbirds", 36 Sqn. "Killers", 37 Sqn. "Black Panthers2, 45 Sqn. "Colts") with some 200 MiG-21 PFMA/Bis/Us Delivery of an additional ten MIRAGE 2000H/THs (4 single-seater and 6 two-seaters) to the Indian Air Force are to be completed by 2004, and a further order (which may involve the 2000-5 version) is being negotiated (Photo: S.K. Srinivasan)

20 fighter/ground attack squadrons: 1 (24 Sqn. "Hunting Hawks" at Poona) with 18 Su-30MKs, 4 (5 Sqn. "Tuskers" and 14 Sqn. "Bulls" at Ambala, 16 Sqn. "Cobras" and 27 Sqn. "Flaming Arrows" at Gorakhpur) with some 100 JAGUAR GR.1s/T.2s, 2 (221 Sqn. "Valiants" at Jodhpur, 220 Sqn. "Desert Lions" at Halwara) with 60 MiG-23BN/-UBs (being replaced by MiG-27s). 7 (2 Sqn. "Winged Arrows", 9 Sqn. "Wolfpack" and 18 Sqn. "Flying Bullets" at Hindan, 10 Sqn. "Winged Daggers" at Jodhpur, 22 Sqn. "Swift" and 222 Sqn. "Tigersharks" at Hashimara, 31 Sqn. at Halwara, 32 Sqn.) with some 160 MiG-27M/UMs (BAHADURs), 5 (8 Sqn. "Eight Pursoot", 17 Sqn. "Golden Arrow", 30 Sqn. "Charging Rhinos", 101 Sqn. "Falcons" at Adampur, 108 Sqn. "Hawkeyes") with some 100 MiG-21M/MF/ FLs (? see notes), 1 (Sqn. 20 "Lightnings") with 10+ Su30MKIs (more being delivered, see notes) India has ordered two Elta ELM-2080 GREEN PINE radars for its planned integrated air defence/ATBM network, and subject to US approval it may also obtain the ARROW ATBM missile system. (Photo: IAI/Elta)

1 maritime strike squadron (6 Sqn. "Dragons") with 8-10 JAGUAR GR.1s (jointly operated with the Navy)

3 close air support helicopter units (104 Unit and 125 Unit at Pathankot, 116 Unit) with 40 Mi-25s and 20 Mi-35s

Reconnaissance: 2 squadrons: 1 (102 Sqn. "Trisonics" at Bareilly) with 6 MiG-25Rs and 2 MiG-- 25Us, 1 (106 Sqn. "Lynxes" at Agra) with some 20 B-58/T-54 CANBERRA (?)(already withdrawn?)

Transport: 9 squadrons: 4 (12 Sqn. "Bisons" at Agra, 43 Sqn. "Ibexes", 48 Sqn. "Camels" at Chandigarh, 49 Sqn. "Para Spears" at Jorhat) with 118 An-32s (SUTLEJs), 2 (41 Sqn. "Otters" at Palam, 58 Sqn. "Hornbills" at Gauhati) with 43 Do228s, 1 (11 Sqn. "Rhinos" at Gwalior) with 30 HS.748s (to be withdrawn), 2 (25 Sqn. "Hymalayian Eagles" at Chandigarh, 44 Sqn. "Mighty Jets" at Agra), with 30 Il-76s; 1 VIP flight with 2 Boeing 737-248s, 7 HS.748Ms and 6 SA.365 DAUPHIN helicopters A line-up of Su-30MKI fighters of the Indian Air Force's No. 20 "Lightnings" Squadron during the activation ceremony at Loheagaon AFS on 20 September 2002. (Photo: Sanjay Simha via India-facts.com)

Trainers: 100 HPT-32/HJT-16s, 42 PZL TS-11 ISKRAs

ELINT/SIGINT/EW: 2 LEARJET 29As, 3 GULFSTREAM III SRAs.

Some MiG-23BNs have been modified for EW and recce roles, but remain attached to their respective combat units.

Helicopters: 15+ observation/liaison/light transport Helicopter Units (squadron equivalent) with 160 SA-315B CHEETAHs (LAMA) and 180 SA-316B CHETAKs (ALOUETTE HIs); 4 transport Helicopter Units with 60 SA-315B CHEETAHs (LAMA), 80+ Mi-17s (see notes), 10 Mi-26s, 50 Mi8s (to be withdrawn?, see notes).

SAM: SA-3 (30 fire units), SA-8 (8 batteries), 100 S-13.

NB: Actual inventories are probably below the above figures, as the service suffers from very high attrition rates particularly as regards ageing materiel of Soviet origin/design. The status of all MiG-- 21M/MF/FL squadrons but 101 Sqn. is uncertain, and these may have already been disbanded.

NB: Deliveries of 22 Su-30MKIs are underway and are scheduled to be completed during 2003. After deliveries are completed, the 18 Su-30MKs will be progressively converted to the MKI configuration. Licence production of 140 additional Su-30MKIs is to start in 2004 and to be completed by 2014. The planned total 190 Su-30MKIs will equip eight squadrons. An additional 10 MIRAGE 2000H/THs (4 single-- seaters and 6 two-seaters) are on order for delivery in 2004 (attrition buy), and a further order (which may involve the 2000-5 version) is being negotiated. Series production of the LCA light strike fighter is tentatively expected to start in 2007 with deliveries from 2010 onwards to equip a planned total of eight squadrons. A programme to modernise 125 MiG-21 Bis (plus a further 50 on option) to the MiG-21-93 configuration with Russian support is underway. A first batch of 33 conversion kits were delivered in 2001 and a further 36 followed in 2002, and re-deliveries of upgraded aircraft started in 2001. The upgrade programme for a first batch of 40 MiG-27s was launched in 2002.

Lockheed Martin has submitted an offer for the organisation of licence production of F-16 fighters to replace the MiG-21 fleet as well as C-130 transports. This, however, does not appear to be in reply to any official request by the Indian authorities.

No decision has been announced yet on the AJT (Advanced Jet Trainer) programme for 66 aircraft. The HJT-36 basic trainer is under full-scale development and is expected to enter service in 2004 to progressively replace the HJT-16 KIRAN. The MiG-21U trainers and the MiG-21FLs are being phased out. The IAI PHALCON AEW&C system is expected to be procured, and a platform is currently being selected. An agreement has been signed with Russia for the joint development of a new-generation Multirole Transport Aircraft (MTA) based on the Il-214 design. 6 Il-78MK convertible tanker/transports are being procured from Uzbekistan, with delivery to be completed bv December 2003.

An integrated air defence/ATBM network is being defined, and 2 GREEN PINE radars are on order. Israel has asked for US permission to sell the ARROW ATBM missile system.

Deliveries of an additional 40 Mi-17 helicopters are being completed. The helicopters are being delivered in a transport configuration, but are expected to eventually receive VIKHR laser-guided anti-tank missiles. There are conflicting reports as regards whether the Mi-17s will replace the Mi-8s or will rather equip 2 new squadrons.

The ALH light helicopter was formally accepted for service in March 2002, and a first batch of 30 aircraft (including 12 for service with the Army) will be delivered over the next two year against a tentative total requirement for 120 helicopters (60 utility, 60 armed) to progressively replace the CHEETAH/ CHETAKs. 20 LANCER light attack helicopter (CHEETAH derivative) are on order for counterinsurgency operations. An international competition has been launched for 9 CSAR helicopters.

The 250km-range PRITHVI II surface-to-surface missile was formally accepted for service in November 2002.

Major air bases: Allahabad, Bamrauli, Bangalore, Dundigal (IAF Academy), Hakimpet (Fighter Training Wing), Hyderabad, Jamnagar, Jodhpur, Nagpur, New Delhi, Shillong. There are more than 60 major and secondary military airfields in India.

[h177]

vikasrehman

I have said it many times and will once again reiterate that China is Three Times the Size of India with Twice the Economy, 1.3 times the Population and may be Four Times the Natural Resources.

As such India cannot catch up with China.

India may catch up with Pakistan but then the Credit of India Catching Up with Pakistan will not go to India. The Credit of India Catching Up with Pakistan will go to Pakistan.

The justification of Pakistan spending over 4.5% of its GDP on Annual Defence Spending being that China is spending 5-6% is very good indeed as this is a sure sign that one day Pakistan will catch up with China.

BTW : China’s Annual Defence Spending is USD 60 Billion.

Peace.

How you calculate China economy is twice of India?. China economy at

$1090 per capita and 1.3B population comes to around $1400B. Now add $160B

of Hong kong. You get result of 3 times economy size. China Tax revenues are

already more than 4 times of India not including Hong Kong. So China is

not overspending if its defence budget is 4 times of India. And dont forget

Chinese currency is atleast 5 times stronger in International market relative so

weopon import does not effect them that much relative to Tax revenues.

So $60B for China is understatement.

[h177]

Aigir

When did Pakistan have the money to spend $$$$$$ 8.5 billion a year on defense.......

Pakistan is so poor they could n,t spend that in 3 years.........

Why else do you think they have T59 tanks and F7 fighters which are both dirt cheap.......

IF pAKISTAN SPENT $8 BILLION DOLLARS the country wud collapse.

Good god $8 billion is half the Gov,t total budget for all services annouced last week which include health education and public services....

Just grow up man.,,,,, WHO YOU TRYING TO KID......

Why India has 400 MIG-21 and 100 MIG-23. The ratio of modern fighters to

obsolete in India is far worse than Pakistan. And don't even talk about Tanks.

You have only inducted 124 modern Tanks. While Pak already has 320 T-80UD

and 150 AK.

Look how your Russian pak gets the contacts. :lol: :lol: First sell the junk and

later upgrade them.

Indina Seeks Aerospace Niche INDIAN AIR FORCE FACES TOUGH CHOICES --- Rising costs in a large, aging fleet of combat aircraft will force IAF planners to cut forces or drop readiness --- DAVID A. FULGHUM

1,879 words
25 July 1994
Aviation Week & Space Technology
Pg. 40
Vol. 141, No. 4
English
Copyright 1994 McGraw-Hill, Inc.

NEW DELHI -- India could become the next economic powerhouse of Asia. It has a huge, cheap, talented manpower pool and has developed centers of world-class technological excellence such as software engineering. However, realizing its goals, which include expanding its aviation industry, will require a combination of bureaucratic streamlining, technological focus and foreign investment. In two weeks of interviews with AW&ST's Military Editor David A. Fulghum, key Indian officials said they have perhaps five years to gain international support for high profile projects such as the Light Combat Aircraft. Failure, they fear, could relegate them to a technological backwater.

The Indian air force will reach a crisis point within the next five years when its planners will have to scrap about 50% of its aircraft in order to modernize and support the remainder. If they fail to do so, the IAF ``will face total paralysis,'' a U.S. State Dept. official said.

DESPITE WHAT ultimately may total a 27% budget hike for 1994-95, the Indian air force will have to pay out 60-70% of its $1.2-billion capital expenditures budget for debt repayment, spare parts and maintaining its airfields. That leaves only about $350-$400 million per year to spend on modernizing a large, rapidly aging force.

Beyond two squadrons of Mirage 2000s (45 aircraft) and three squadrons of MiG-29s (50 aircraft), the Indian air force (IAF) relies on a minimum of 100 MiG-27s (India is the only country still manufacturing that aircraft), 40-50 indigenously built Jaguars and a backbone force of about 250 MiG-21s. The latter need upgrading with modern navigation, communications, radar and attack systems. The Indians would like to modify as many of the MiG-21s as possible, but budget realities are pointing toward about 120, at least initially.

The upgrade will cost about $300 million. It would give the MiG-21 another 10-15 years of life--enough, it is hoped, to last until they can be replaced with the Indian-built Light Combat

Aircraft now under development. Former IAF officials said the MiG-21 upgrade decision went to the Russian Mikoyan design bureau only after the Russians threatened the Indians' supply of spare parts for other Russian-designed aircraft if Moscow did not get the contract.

``The fleet is aging,'' Air Marshal S.R. Deshpande, deputy chief of the air staff, said. ``We can't afford to replace aircraft on a one-to-one basis, so it comes down to [adding] sensors and precision [weapons] without replacing hardware. The numbers may have to come down, as long as the lethal punch does not.''

THE IMMEDIATE EFFECT will be the disbanding, or ``number plating,'' of a number of fighter squadrons, a member of the United Service Institution of India said. The term refers to the practice of keeping just a cadre of administrators on a squadron's strength roster, but not equipment or aircraft.

The reduction in fighter squadrons to 35 from 39, however, is far short of what is needed for a cost effective force.

A European aerospace official agreed the IAF is being overwhelmed with the ``number of aircraft types in service, the bases, the squadrons and the sheer volume of aircraft.'' But while the air force recognizes the need to slim down and consolidate, the government is under pressure to produce work for idle aircraft factories.

Equally pressing is the need to spend a minimum of $2 billion on 66 advanced jet trainer aircraft (AJT) to replace old Hawker Hunter and MiG-21 trainers, allowing new pilots to make the transition into front line jet aircraft.

Current IAF plans are to fund the MiG-21 upgrade, perhaps relying on $300 million in residual credits with the former Soviet Union, while deferring the advanced jet trainer decision for another year. The main competitors are British Aerospace's Hawk and France's Dassault Alpha Jet.

A European aerospace industry official saw the AJT delay in terms of the Indian government ``wrestling with how much Indian manufacturing content will be cost effective.''

``We can afford [the MiG-21 update] within the budget if it's stretched out three or four years,'' a senior IAF official said. ``We may secure loans from Russia.''

But a U.S. decision to go forward with its release of 28-to-38 F-16s to Pakistan would likely upset these priorities and send Indian government officials scrambling for an additional purchase of Mirage 2000s or, more likely, MiG-29s, Indian officials said.

The Clinton Administration has proposed a one-time sale of previously ordered and paid-for F-16s to Pakistan in exchange for a cap on that nation's military nuclear weapons development. U.S. approval of the F-16 sale is ``viewed with concern'' and ``is not considered a friendly act,'' a senior IAF official said. Despite the strain on the economy of the new purchases of fighters for the IAF, political pressure would make them unavoidable, Indian officials said.

IAF OFFICIALS said they also would consider buying such aircraft as the Su-27, Su-30, Su-35 or even the U.S.-built F-16. ``The idea is to get a bargain--good performance and lots of [financial] credit,'' a senior IAF official said.

Deshpande confirmed these priorities, saying IAF modernization first ``will be threat specific and then resource specific.''

Another senior IAF official said the service must maintain something close to today's military balance with Pakistan, ``to keep the Pakistanis from adventurism,'' even if it means an added burden to the budget. However, he said, by the time inflation is accounted for, there is ``actual negative growth in the defense budget . . . about 3%.''

Privately, former senior Indian Air Force officials say the Pakistan F-16s were already compensated for with the initial purchases of Mirage 2000s and MiG-29s. They are concerned that politics are now making the IAF address the same buildup. Meanwhile, there has been no focused analysis of what the IAF needs to counter the F-16s or even if those aircraft would alter the military balance between the two countries.

U.S. government officials say about 24 of the Pakistan air force's 39 F-16s are still in flying condition, while the IAF can fly 40-45 of the 70 MiG-29s it bought. At least one F-16 was shot down by another Pakistani fighter while chasing an intruding aircraft from Afghanistan.

IAF officials also worry about buying any capability that would be provocative and that might trigger sales of such advanced systems as airborne warning and control system (AWACS) aircraft to Pakistan.

Unofficially, U.S. Air Force officers say Pakistan will ``never'' get an AWACS aircraft from the U.S. Therefore, IAF officials feel ``no desperate need'' to buy such assets as the Lockheed KC-130 tanker/transport--even though the Light Combat Aircraft is being designed with an in-flight refueling capability--or to renew development of its own AWACS aircraft.

Within the IAF there is a desire, at least, ``to improve the man-machine ratio'' in the IAF and to decrease manpower by ``downloading maintenance to the civilian sector,'' according to Air Vice Marshal S. Krishnaswamy, air staff director of plans and a former test pilot.

Some IAF officials would like to walk away from the heavy investments in the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft, but government and aviation industry officials see it as a political tool to avoid reliance on other countries for military supplies and as a stimulus to India's industry and job base. IAF pilots worry that they will be stuck with an average performance aircraft that is hard to support logistically because of the limited industrial base in India to provide spares and maintenance.

``[INDIAN GOVERNMENT officials] are not thinking of [an air force designed to support] an executable war plan,'' a U.S. defense official said.

The Ministry of Defense was described as run by ``non-professionals . . . who don't have a clue as to what it takes to field a modern, warfighting force,'' a member of the New Delhi-based Institute for Defense Studies and Analyses said.

Such short-term thinking by the Indian government hobbles military planning and preparation.

``You're not going to find more than two weeks' worth of war materiel stockpiled,'' the U.S. defense official said. Extensive exercises are avoided because they use up whatever materiel is in the strategic reserves. In the event of a conflict, the Indian military is ``going to war with what they have on their backs,'' he said.

In this military and industrial turmoil, U.S. observers see the opportunity of the U.S. to ally itself economically with India, boost the growing market between India and the U.S. and strengthen India's defense.

THERE WOULD BE BENEFITS for both countries, a U.S. trade specialist said. The U.S. has been the biggest investor in India for five years and India's biggest trading partner for 10 years. The U.S. economy could be bolstered by finding even more markets in India, ``but the U.S. export control regime is still in a Cold War mode with India on the wrong side,'' he said.

The IAF is buying 315 Texas Instruments Paveway laser guidance kits for British-designed 2,000-lb. bombs and is considering the purchase of GBU-10s. But there is a problem in terms of mating and testing U.S. equipment with existing British-, French- and Soviet-designed equipment, Krishnaswamy said. The price of U.S. military equipment also will continue to be a stumbling block.

``We well appreciate the value of precision guided munitions [PGMs], but . . . they cost a hell of a lot,'' Krishnaswamy said. ``We can't drain the exchequer.''

USING THE INDIAN military and aerospace industry as an example of where relaxed controls would mean profits, the trade specialist pointed out that a cooperative effort with the U.S. to modernize Indian air force equipment could result in new international markets for both countries.

``Two-thirds of the world's fighters are of Soviet origin,'' the specialist said, but arranging for spares has become a nightmare with suppliers scattered throughout the CIS and brokers charging 30-50% extra to arrange the deals. Even higher broker fees are demanded for scarce and high-failure parts such as high temperature engine parts, hydraulic pumps, fuel controllers, electrical generators and landing gears.

``Even the Russians are going to have to upgrade [their military aircraft]'' and an Indian-based, U.S. financed industry could supply that need, he said.

[Ajgir]

Defence budget hiked by 27%

Expressing determination to eliminate "all delays" in modernisation of the armed forces, the government on Thursday hiked the defence budget by a whopping 27 per cent to Rs 77,000 crore (Rs 770 billion) as against the revised estimates of Rs 63,000 crore (Rs 630 billion), but did away with the National Democratic Alliance regime's proposal to have a three year non-lapseable revolving fund.

The government more than doubled the allocation for capital outlay to Rs 33,482 crore (Rs 334.82 billion) from last year's revised estimates of Rs 16,906 crore (Rs 169.06 billion) with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh saying that defence expenditure had been neglected over the past three to four years.

Increasing the defence outlay in the Union Budget 2004-05, Finance Minister P Chidambaram said it had become "necessary" to make a higher allocation this year to keep up the trend of acquisition of state-of-the-art weapons.

With the doubling of capital outlay, it appears the government would go ahead with pending proposals to acquire French killer class Scorpene submarines, 125 multi-purpose fighters for the Air Force to replace ageing Mig-21s and with about Rs 4,000 crore (Rs 40 billion) project to increase the firepower of the infantry.

Despite a hefty hike, India's defence expenditure still forms only 2.5 per cent of the GDP, much lower than China which spends 6 per cent and Pakistan 5.5 per cent of their GDP on defence.

So the statement “New Indian Government Slows Spending on Army” goes out of the window

Peace

[sr71]

Ajgir you have double standards, you are a hippocrate. :P

[Ajgir]

Ajgir you have double standards, you are a hippocrate. :P

sr71,

Oy! Watch It!!

I am a Human not a crate – so cannot be the Hippo Kind!!!

Peace :P

[vikasrehman]

India Hikes Military Spending by 18 Percent
By PRATAP CHAKRAVARTY, AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, NEW DELHI

India announced July 8 it was hiking military spending by almost 18 percent in the year to March 2005 and promised to speed up modernization of its technology-starved forces.

Finance Minister Palaniappan Chidambaram said in his budget the rise to 770 billion rupees ($16.7 billion) from 653 billion rupees the year before had become “necessary” because of low hikes in defense spending in previous years and a massive military acquisition program.

“The government is determined to eliminate all delays in the modernization of the defense forces (and) having regard to the trend of defense capital expenditure in recent years, it has become necessary to make a higher allocation this year,” Chidambaram told parliament.

A third of the increase is allocated to capital expenditure, which rises from 209.53 billion rupees in 2004 to 334.03 billion rupees in the current fiscal year.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, giving full marks to Chidambaram, said the higher defense outlay was in the national interest.

“The defense expenditure had been neglected in the last three to four years and we are committed to making good that deficiency. This is investing in national security which I think we must honor,” Singh told reporters after the budget was presented in parliament.

Military experts hailed the hike but said the increase was not enough to fund all the long-planned purchases of a Russian aircraft carrier, British jet trainers, French submarines and of a $900 million project to increase the firepower of the infantry.

“It is an appreciable increase in the capital outlay,” said Uday Bhaskar, deputy director of the military’s think-tank Institute of Defence Studies and Analysis.

“This kind of increase is reasonable but still it does not... give fiscal support for the modernization programs of the three armed forces,” said Bhaskar.

India’s million-plus army got the lion’s share of the budget with $6 billion, while the technology-deprived air force received $1.8 billion dollars of the outlay for fiscal year to March 2005.

The navy, which is yearning for six French-built Scorpene submarines, was given $1.15 billion for upkeep, ordnance factories received $90.6 million dollars while military pensions were boosted by a hefty $2.4 billion dollars.

Other analysts said despite the steep hike, India’s military spending remained below three percent of gross domestic product.

“The ballpark figure is still about 2.2 percent of the GDP,” said former air marshal Kapil Kak of the center for Strategic Studies.

“It is a realistic and a major increase but much will depend on what will be the nature of actual expenditure in terms of procurement,” Kak said, adding that in the previous three budgets about 14.17 percent of allocated funds had not been spent by the military.

[vikasrehman]

Ajgir

Pakistan’s Annual Defence Budget is about USD 3.3 to 3.5 Billion but without the Wages, Benefits, Pensions etc. of the Armed forces Personnel.

Prove it.
I know Pensions (around 34-38 billion rupees at the moment) come under the civilian account, but show me a credible source which says that pakistani armed forces' wages (around 55 billion rupees) dont come from defence budget.

On numerous occassions, u have claimed that pakistani armed forces' wages, pensions, benefits etc add upto around $4.5-5 billion dollars.
Well dont give us estimates based on this and that and prove ur claims with credible evidence.

[Ajgir]

vikasrehman

1. There are been sufficient Articles stating the Wages, Pensions, Benefits etc. are paid, I believe, from the Government Employees account. For your kind information some time back a Pakistani writer in the Pakistani Media commented about the Pakistani Pensions being around the Rs. 38 Billion Mark. I will try and find the Article.

2. The Wages, Pensions, Benefits of the Indian Forces last year amounted to USD 8.5 Billion.

3. Pakistan’s Armed Forces are Half the size the size of the Indian Armed Forces.

4. Pakistan’s Armed Forces are Paid Better, have Better Perquisites as well as Better Benefits included Tinted-Windows Limousines. They also have “Expensive” Non-Vegetarian diet as compared to the cheap Vegetarian diet of a large percentage of the Indian Armed Forces.

As such I am willing to be guided by you as to the Actual amount Pakistan spends in respect of the Wages, Pensions, Benefits etc. on the Pakistani Armed Forces.

I trust you will give me the democratic option of accepting such figures or not per my choice.

In due course I am sure a Pakistani Source will be available supporting my assumptions.

Peace

[h177]

Despite a hefty hike, India's defence expenditure still forms only 2.5 per cent of the GDP, much lower than China which spends 6 per cent and Pakistan 5.5 per cent of their GDP on defence

There goes the crediblity of the whole budget speech. China 6% is $100B while

for Pakistan 5.5% is $5.5B. Which is much more than $3.4B Pakistan spends.