![]() ![]() |
Apr 28 2004, 03:32 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
MAJOR ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Full Members Posts: 790 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Delhi Member No.: 3,718 |
FALKLAND WAR
This war is well known for the use of Sea Harrier fighters and their AIM-9L Sidewinder missiles. The conflict apparently looks very small and simple, but in reality, it was highly complex and a lot of things have to be learnt from this war. Apart from the debut if the Harrier and the AIM-9L Sidewinder, the war saw extensive use of Anti-shipping tactics and also Air Defense systems. The importance of early warning systems, planning and mission execution was high-lighted by this war. Following data gives the Combat element status of both forces in the vicinity of the Falkland Islands :- QUOTE ARGENTINA'S COMBAT FORCES The Navy consisted of : - One light fleet carrier "25 de Mayo" - Four patrol submarines - One cruiser - Six destroyers and three frigates, all Exocet-armed, amphibious warfare craft - Eight fleet tankers and transports - Two icebreakers or polar vessels The Naval aviation command consisted of : - Four operational Super Etendard strike fighters and their air-launched version of Exocet - Eight Skyhawk A-4Q attack bombers - Ten Aermacchi MB.339's - Fifteen Mentor T-34C's in the light attack role - Tracker anti-submarine aircraft and Lynx, Alouette and Sea King helicopters. The Air Force : - 45 Skyhawk A-4B and C attack bombers - 37 Dagger - 17 Mirage fighter and attack aircraft - Ten Canberra light bombers - More than 35 Argentine-designed and built Pucara close support aircraft - Nine Hercules C-130 transports and tankers - Learjets, Boeing 707's and a number of other aircraft and helicopters Argentina was using SAM types like ROLAND, TIGERCAT and BLOWPIPE BRITISH COMBAT FORCES Royal Navy : - Nuclear submarines "Spartan", "Splendid", "Conqueror", "Courageous"(?), "Valiant" and conventionally powered "Onyx", possibly with some SBS. - old carrier "Hermes" (28,700 tons full load), - new but smaller "Invincible" (19.800 tons) - assault ships "Fearless" and "Intrepid" (12,100 tons) DESTROYERS - "Bristol" - "Antrim" - "Glamorgan" - "Cardiff" - "COVENTRY" - "Exeter" - "Glasgow" - "SHEFFIELD" FRIGATES - "Brilliant" - "Broadsword" - "Active" - "Alacrity" - "Ambuscade" - "ANTELOPE" - "ARDENT" - "Arrow" - "Avenger" - "Andromeda" - "Argonaut" - "Minerva" - "Penelope" - "Plymouth" - "Yarmouth" Royal Air Force Squadrons : - VC.10 transports of 10 Sqdn, Hercules transports of 24, 30, 47 and 70 Sqdns, - - Nimrod maritime reconnaissance aircraft of 42(TB), 51(?), 120, 201 and 206 Sqdns, - Victor tankers of 55 and 57 Sqdns, - Vulcan bombers of 44, 50 and 101 Sqdns, - Harrier GR.3 attack aircraft of 1(F), - Chinook helicopter of 18 and a - Sea King of 202, - Phantom fighters of 29(F) Sqdns, RN ships were using SAM systems like the SEA WOLF and SEA DART. MARITIME ATTACKS : The war started in April, but the enemy was slow to respond and Maritime Attacks began only after 4th of May. Argentina basically used A-4 Skyhawk attack fighters for the role but the tactics used dated back to the days of WW2. A-4s came in at extremely low level and released time-delayed bombs (same as the ones used in WW2 with propeller and screw action). These tactics made them highly vulnerable to the modern Sea Wolf and Sea Dart SAMs of the RN Ships. But surpisingly, A-4 was the biggest RN hunter by sinking a total of three and damaging several other ships. The main anticipated threat to the ships was from the Super Etendards operating from De Mayo. These fighters had decent range and were capable of carrying the AM-39 Exocet AShM. Such an attack was carried out on 4th May when two Exocets were launched against RN ships, one of which hit the HMS Sheffield (sunk). These attacks were carried out from stand-off ranges and therefore, were not too risky. But the low sticks of Exocets made the Etendards think twice before firing them. Daggers and Mirages also flew constant sorties against RN ships but were not successful. This was partly due to the SAMs and Sea Harriers, but the main reason was the low endurance of the Mirage-III and lack of good avionics in the Dagger. However, on some occasions, Daggers did damage ships like Broadsword and Antrim with cannon fire and fuzed bombs. To conclude, we can say that while Argentina's Air Arm took heavy losses in terms of aircrafts, they were able to inflict heavy losses on Royal Navy. The RN was heavily dependent on Supply Ships as they were at a huge distance from home. And therefore, whenever A-4s or Etendards struck the supply ships and tankers, the RN was surrounded by trouble. But the enemy failed to realise this fact and continued risky attack passes over SAM and AAA systems of the RN combat ships. This can partially be blamed to the lack of any Air Borne Warning aircraft in the inventory. AIR-AIR COMBAT : This war is known for the antics of the Sea Harrier against Mirages and Daggers. However, this was not the case in reality. Fights mainly occured when enemy aircrafts came in to strike RN ships. Harriers scrambled from the carriers intercepted them while the intruders tried their best to avoid an engagement. The combat lacked fancy maneuvers and due to the all-aspect seeker of the AIM-9L, the Harriers were able to get easy shots on the bandits. Mirage-III was carrying the Magic-I and Matra Super-530F missile in the war, but it never used them. And the Daggers carrying the Shafrir-2 also did not use their missiles at the right times. And this is the reason why no Harriers were lost to Air Combat. Had the Argentinians been imparted good training, they could have made the score look miserable for the Harriers. Thus, it can be said that Harriers were at a considerable advantage during the war and the AIM-9L coupled with the cold weather of Falkland made things easier for the Harriers. However, it was just the opposite for the Argentinian fighters. QUOTE RN Ships sunk or damaged :- HMS Alacrity - slightly damaged by bomb near misses HMS Arrow - slightly damaged by cannon fire HMS Glamorgan - slightly damaged by bomb near misses, all off Stanley by Daggers of FAA Grupo 6. HMS SHEFFIELD - mortally damaged south east of Falklands by Exocet missile fired by Super Etendard HMS Glasgow - moderately damaged off Stanley by unexploded bomb (1) dropped by A-4B Skyhawks HMS Antrim - seriously damaged in Falkland Sound outside San Carlos Water by unexploded bomb (2) dropped by Daggers HMS Broadsword - slightly damaged outside San Carlos Water by cannon fire from Daggers of Grupo 6. HMS Argonaut - slightly damaged outside San Carlos Water by rockets and cannon fire from Aermacchi MB.339A HMS Brilliant - slightly damaged outside San Carlos Water by cannon fire from Daggers of Grupo 6. HMS ARDENT - badly damaged in Grantham Sound by bombs - hits, UXB's (5+) and near misses - dropped by Daggers HMS ANTELOPE - damaged in San Carlos Water by two unexploded bombs (6/7) dropped by A-4B Skyhawks RFA Sir Galahad - damaged by unexploded bomb (8) and out of action for some days, RFA Sir Lancelot - damaged by unexploded bomb (9) and not fully operational for almost three weeks, RFA Sir Bedivere - slightly damaged by glancing bomb, all in San Carlos Water probably by A-4C Skyhawks of FAA Grupo 4. HMS Broadsword - damaged north of Pebble Island by bomb from A-4B Skyhawk HMS COVENTRY - sunk north of Pebble Island in same attack by three bombs. ATLANTIC CONVEYOR - mortally damaged north east of Falklands by Exocet missile fired by Super Etendard HMS Plymouth - damaged in Falkland Sound off San Carlos Water by four unexploded bombs (10-13) from Daggers of FAA Grupo 6. RFA SIR GALAHAD - mortally damaged off Fitzroy by bombs from A-4B Skyhawks RFA Sir Tristram - badly damaged off Fitzroy in same attack and abandoned, but later returned to UK and repaired HMS Glamorgan - damaged off Stanley by land-based Exocet missile. There are a few things to note about this war : 1. Of the six exocets fired in the war, five were detected early enough for defense systems to be activated. Two missiles were shot down and two were decoyed. So only two missiles found their mark. 2. Argentina did not target strategic targets like tankers and supplies which were almost un-escorted most of the times. Instead, they attacked the combat ships directly which resulted in heavy aircraft losses. Had the supplies been targeted, the RN ships would have been stuck right there and the operation would have been halted. 3. RAF Nimrods were stationed for the maritime surviellance but it was not able to detect the life-lines that kept the De Mayo running. 4. E-2 Aircraft from De Mayo failed to detect RN carriers. 5. Sea Wolf systems were found to be ineffective when used against low-flying close targets, as seen in the case of Coventry attack. 6. Sea Dart system computer took a long time to restart as multiple switches had to be re-opened for the process. This caused the Coventry disaster. VIPER -------------------- We learn from History that we learn nothing from Histroy !!!
|
|
|
|
Apr 28 2004, 11:39 AM
Post
#2
|
|
|
BRIGADIER ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Senior Members Posts: 1,325 Joined: 2-December 03 Member No.: 3,352 |
Good read.Thanx
|
|
|
|
Apr 28 2004, 12:21 PM
Post
#3
|
|
![]() GENERAL ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Senior Members Posts: 3,670 Joined: 23-November 02 Member No.: 414 |
QUOTE 2. Argentina did not target strategic targets like tankers and supplies which were almost un-escorted most of the times. Instead, they attacked the combat ships directly which resulted in heavy aircraft losses. Had the supplies been targeted, the RN ships would have been stuck right there and the operation would have been halted. Just like Sun Tzu said 2500 years ago. Avoid the enemy's strength, and attack its weakness. Be like water flowing down a mountain. It avoids all the boulders, and streams and rushes between gaps. |
|
|
|
Apr 28 2004, 01:08 PM
Post
#4
|
|
![]() BRIGADIER ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Banned Posts: 1,117 Joined: 17-September 03 Member No.: 2,800 |
QUOTE 1. Of the six exocets fired in the war, five were detected early enough for defense systems to be activated. Two missiles were shot down and two were decoyed. So only two missiles found their mark. This great site says three (possibly four) exocets hit the British ships: http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/Exocet.html One the HMS Sheffield, two (some sources say only one hit) the Atlantic Conveyor and a possible hit on the HMS Invincible. See the site for further details. -------------------- "Vous, légionnaires, vous êtes soldats pour mourir et je vous envoie où l'on meurt!" - Général de Négrier
|
|
|
|
Apr 28 2004, 03:24 PM
Post
#5
|
|
![]() MAJOR GENERAL ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Senior Members Posts: 2,500 Joined: 29-September 03 From: UK (i'm from West Yorkshire) Member No.: 2,880 |
the only thing the argies lacked were exocet missiles(they only had 3-4 throughout the whole conflict) if they had a few dozen then i'm sure that there would'v been more british casualties having said that the Brits would have still won, they wound have launched heavy air raids with there Vulcan bombers against argentinian air fields.
-------------------- The Ink of a scholar is mightier than a blood of a martyr (Prophet mustafa Saw/PBUH)
'1 mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter' ce la vie “WE KNEW HE WAS A SON OF A ######, BUT HE WAS OUR SON OF A ######” CIA agent Geoffrey Kemp talking about Saddam Hussein: |
|
|
|
Apr 28 2004, 06:50 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
BRIGADIER ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Senior Members Posts: 1,577 Joined: 30-September 03 From: Malaysia Member No.: 2,884 |
good post dude.
The Argetinians should have used the E-2 to better use and attacked the supply ships which would really have made a difference. |
|
|
|
Apr 29 2004, 12:23 AM
Post
#7
|
|
|
LIEUTENANT ![]() ![]() Group: Jr. Members Posts: 174 Joined: 21-August 03 Member No.: 2,232 |
Guys,
It is believed that HMS Invincible was hit real bad, but the orders were to keep it afloat at all cost---come hell or high water. How the british kept it afloat, is a praise to their skills. -------------------- One who loves and runs away, will live to love another day.
|
|
|
|
Apr 29 2004, 01:53 AM
Post
#8
|
|
|
MAJOR ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Full Members Posts: 790 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Delhi Member No.: 3,718 |
Oh yes, its three. Actually i had read about the hits around two years back so i wasn't all that sure. From what i know, the Conveyor was hit by only one Exocet.
But whatever be the hits, my point was that the missiles were detected and defenses were activated. A missile like exocet has only 50-60 Kms range and is sub-sonic. So in modern warfare, it can be decoyed or shot down. Nowdays, even systems like Phalanx cannons can hope to take out sub-sonic missiles. And quick reation SAM like BARAK and Kashtan can easily take out these missiles. Atleast Harpoon has some sort of range and ECCM advances over Exocet (even Block-II). The real threats are C-802, Brahmos type missiles. And the other thing i was trying to say is that how just one war can make us believe that one system is superior to the other. Whenever the Harrier is questioned, ppl talk about Falkland. But Harrier was LUCKY - to have such gr8 pilots and such stupid enemy tactics. And one big point i forgot to mention : A-4s and Daggers dropped WW2 style bombs on RN ships. Most of them never exploded, but still RN payed a huge price. Now had the bombs exploded, RN would have been down in the dump. The defeat of Argentina is a combination of their own mistakes plus some bad luck !!! Both sides fought courageously. Its not easy to fly constantly over SAMs like Wolf and Dart and drop bombs, when u have no ECM. And the A-4 and Dagger pilots were doing this day in and day out. VIPER -------------------- We learn from History that we learn nothing from Histroy !!!
|
|
|
|
Apr 29 2004, 06:07 AM
Post
#9
|
|
![]() GENERAL ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Senior Members Posts: 9,700 Joined: 18-August 03 Member No.: 2,208 Location: Scotland |
it all comes down to tatics and training but i do belive that if the ARGENTINA had more exocet missile the out come would have been differant
they had very little air fired exocets but did have land based one which they tried to incoperate into the Mirages but failed Air tatics buy the Argentina ait force were really bad they would fly over unprotected ships and not even drop there bombs alot of vunrable ships were just ignored although i do think the Argintena's did try and buy some excess Exocet missiles from Iraq as Saddam had stock plies of these for the Iranians -------------------- "The mosques are our barracks, the minarets our bayonets, the domes our helmets, and the believers our soldiers"
Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Davos Switzerland Deeper than the oceans higher than the mountains China-Pakistan Allied Forces brothers In Arms 'Shaheen teri parwaaz sey jalta hai zamana, Tu bazo-e-par sey issey aur hawa dey'-------JF17 Thunder |
|
|
|
Apr 29 2004, 08:26 PM
Post
#10
|
|
![]() CAPTAIN ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Full Members Posts: 545 Joined: 31-July 03 Member No.: 2,094 |
QUOTE (Vaiar @ Apr 28 2004, 01:08 PM) This great site says three (possibly four) exocets hit the British ships: http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/Exocet.html One the HMS Sheffield, two (some sources say only one hit) the Atlantic Conveyor and a possible hit on the HMS Invincible. See the site for further details. On the last days of the war HMS Glamorgan was hit by a shore launched MM40 Exocet which failed to explode. Lucky for Glamorgan. The exocet that hit HMS Sheffield actually failed to explode. But its rocket motor kept on burning even after the impact which ignited the ships magazine -------------------- Veritas Lux Mea -- The truth enlightens me
|
|
|
|
May 1 2004, 06:28 PM
Post
#11
|
|
![]() MAJOR ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Jr. Members Posts: 666 Joined: 22-February 04 Member No.: 4,010 |
QUOTE The exocet that hit HMS Sheffield actually failed to explode. But its rocket motor kept on burning even after the impact which ignited the ships magazine this is indicative of how perilously close british ships were to the coast. however it is understandable if the HMS Sheffield was carrying apc's and troops for land invasion, if not then i think it was too close too soon. -------------------- If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. Why do you press harder on a remote control when you know the battery is dead? Why does mineral water that 'has trickled through mountains for centuries' have a 'use by' date? answer:its because the bottle makers insurance company forces them to give a date as each bottle is only covered for a certain period by the insurers. so u can drink after the date but for watever reason u wont b able 2 sue them |
|
|
|
May 1 2004, 07:44 PM
Post
#12
|
|
![]() CAPTAIN ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Full Members Posts: 545 Joined: 31-July 03 Member No.: 2,094 |
QUOTE (GTO @ May 1 2004, 06:28 PM) this is indicative of how perilously close british ships were to the coast. however it is understandable if the HMS Sheffield was carrying apc's and troops for land invasion, if not then i think it was too close too soon. HMS Sheffield is not anywhere near the coast. It was hit by an Exocet fired by the Super Etendard. But the missle warhead failed to explode, the ship was lost because the rocket motor ignited the Sea Dart missile magazine ..... boom -------------------- Veritas Lux Mea -- The truth enlightens me
|
|
|
|
![]() ![]() |
| Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 31st July 2010 - 03:01 PM |