Articles On Jf-17 By Topgun - All 5 Parts, www.Defensetalk.com exclusive!!! Options

[Chucky]

Really neat and detailed articles on different areas of Jf-17/fc1.



The FC-1/JF-17 'Thunder' - The History and Design Philosophy [Part 1]

The History and Design Philosophy
Confusion over the FC-1 exact origins has been abounded and persists even after over decade since its conception. What is known is that its intended roles and design have been subject to deliberate and unintended misinformation. However, the history of the project is clearer when dependable sources are relied upon. Unlike most Chinese fighter projects, the FC-1 has not been subject to strict silence. Like many fighters, it has suffered a torturous development because of technical, financial, political and other issues and only now is making its appearance.


The FC-1/JF-17 'Thunder' - Chengdu and FC-1/JF-17's development [Part 2]

Chengdu and FC-1/JF-17's development
Many commentators have been dismissive of Chinese design and research capabilities. However, these allegations are based on historical developments, which have not been explained. Recent developments in the Chinese aerospace industry have been impressive and the FC-1/JF-17 is no exception. It is of course true, that foreign input and assistance has been substantial to enabling the Chinese to develop a competitive aerospace industry.

The FC-1/JF-17 'Thunder' - Electronic systems [ Part 3 ]

Electronic systems
As with every modern fighter aircraft, electronics and weapons systems have a direct bearing on mission effectiveness as field performance. The JF-17 is no exception to this rule. For the PAF, the most important specifications were a BVR-combat capability and a FBW system. However, both would require an advanced radar and avionics. The radar specification has been most notably important but less has been said of the avionics, particularly the nav-attack system. Even now, most systems have not been finalised and even the PAF's examples are likely to differ considerably from PLAAF models.

The FC-1/JF-17 'Thunder' - The roles of the JF-17 for the PAF and PLAAF [ Part 4 ]

The roles of the JF-17 for the PAF and PLAAF
In virtually every static display JF-17 mock-ups were featured in air to air configuration, with four AAMs (Air to Air Missiles) two for BVR-AAMs and two WVR-AAMs along with two drop tanks. Significantly enough the JF-17's first mock-up also exhibited mock-ups of PL-12/SD-10 (China's first active radar homing BVR-AAM) which was solid and final confirmation that a modern higher performance BVR-combat capability was a primary requirement. Though a multi-role configuration has not been displayed (with air to surface munitions) such a configuration is inevitable.

The FC-1/JF-17 'Thunder' - Future prospects [ Part 5 ]

Future prospects
From the PLAAF's standpoint, the JF-17 offers modest capabilities to the options China could acquire. Older types such as the J-8H/F 'Finback' and J-7G 'Airguard' will continue service in their upgraded guises for years to come, and may be acquired and developed into more advanced versions to keep the Chinese aerospace industry ticking and to fulfil the 'lower end' requirements of the PLAAF.

[DGMO]

Good work by TG :)Clp

He was a great member on this forum, but was driven out by insults. Yeah he may have gone on a bit about the F-1, but he made better contributions than most. Always looked to start interesting and topical threads. Had a passion for the PAF, but was bizarrely resented by some because of that (IMG:http://forum.pakistanidefence.com//style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/wacko.gif)

Look at some of the crap we have now. Thousands of threads on everyone's fantasies and wish-lists.

[Saad]

For the PAF, the most important specifications were a BVR-combat capability and a FBW system. However, both would require an advanced radar and avionics. The radar specification has been most notably important but less has been said of the avionics, particularly the nav-attack system.

Well tell me why advanced radar and avionics is needed for FBW system.Morover JF 17 uses both mechanical and FBW system in combination.Give a logic and link between FBW system and advanced radar and avionics.

[Saad]

Good work by TG :)Clp

He was a great member on this forum, but was driven out by insults. Yeah he may have gone on a bit about the F-1, but he made better contributions than most. Always looked to start interesting and topical threads. Had a passion for the PAF, but was bizarrely resented by some because of that (IMG:http://forum.pakistanidefence.com//style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/wacko.gif)

Look at some of the crap we have now. Thousands of threads on everyone's fantasies and wish-lists.

All this much praise for whom??????????????

[Jehangir]

Good work by TG 

He was a great member on this forum, but was driven out by insults. Yeah he may have gone on a bit about the F-1, but he made better contributions than most. Always looked to start interesting and topical threads. Had a passion for the PAF, but was bizarrely resented by some because of that 

Look at some of the crap we have now. Thousands of threads on everyone's fantasies and wish-lists. 


All this much praise for whom??????????????

For Top Gun a energatic memeber of pdf

[tank131]

Saad,

Have you not been paying any attention to the JF-17s development since last september...or are you high? The FBW system is no longer using a mechanicle (hydrolic) backup...and it is no longer analogue. The model now uses quadruplex digital FBW systems, and host such a system, you need advanced avionics capable of controlling the FBW systems. Avionics as you should know are not only the radar and fire controls, but the vast majority of electricle systems on board the aircraft, from FBW controls to HUDs, and MFDs. Secondly, if you dont understand why an advanced radar would be required for the BVR missiles (which was the intended reference for the radar), then you haven't learned a thing from this forum.

The JF-17 is not the weak underdeveloped aircraft that you are trying to make it out to be. It will be as capable as F-16C/D block 50/52 (not block50/52+ which is the mainstay of the USAF). How do I know this...well, the Grifo S7 is better than Grifo 2000 (which is used on Itallian MLUs...and equal to the US MLU project). The F-16MLU is the equivalent of the F-16C/D block 50/52...and the JF-17 was always intended to be better than the F-16MLU...hence...you can draw the conclusion yourself I hope.

[sparten]

It is better than anything the lala's have got cept the MKI and there the difference is less than the difference between the two pilots, indeed it will have an advantage due to lower RCS at some ranges. The crap bout 80% as good as the F-16A is over ten years old it is better than Block 50/52+ and probably as good as the Block 60. It is Pakistan's J-10. Export and Chinese versions mite be less capable (F-16 MLU)but Pakitan's version is gonna be ablewto take on any 4th Gen aircraft.

[PakShaheen]

The crap bout 80% as good as the F-16A is over ten years old it is better than Block 50/52+ and probably as good as the Block 60.

F-16-Block60
========
Structure & Avionics
The Block 60 features an enormous amount of new capabilities. For one thing, the Fighting Falcon Block 60's range is extended with addition of fuselage mounted conformal fuel tanks and wing tanks, similar to the F-16ES and Block 50/52 Plus.

Secondly, the Northrop Grumman AN/ASQ-28 IFTS (Internal FLIR and Targeting System) replaces the pods in earlier aircraft. With state-of-the art components and packaging technology, the Internal FLIR Targeting System (IFTS) incorporates an advanced multi-functional FLIR/laser system into the F-16 nose to improve lethality and survivability with lower weight and drag. The elimination of bulky pods also enhances stealthiness.

Thirdly, there is an integrated electronic warfare suite with the Northrop Grumman 'Falcon Edge' internal electronic countermeasures system, the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-80 "Agile Beam Radar" with AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array), an electronic warfare management system, fiber-optic avionics data bus and up to eight chaff/flare dispensers, as well as advanced friend or foe. The aircraft's advanced avionics suite has room available for future improvements. The Block 60's modular mission computer has a processing throughput of 12.5 million instructions per second and provides sensor and weapons integration.


The first picture of a UAE block 60 F-16 taken at the unofficial roll-out.
The ALQ-165 electronic countermeasures system, also known as the Airborne Self-Protection Jammer (ASPJ), is a sophisticated, high-power jamming system developed to fulfill both U.S. Navy and Air Force requirements - although the USAF abandonned the program a while ago. Missile warning systems on the Block 60 provide advanced warning of approaching missiles so the pilot can activate countermeasures in time. The Block 60 F-16 can accommodate both active and passive missile warning systems currently under development.

Any F-16 pilot can perform mission tasks with his head up and his eyes looking out of the cockpit and with his hands on the flight controls. The Block 60 adds to this excellent pilot-aircraft interface by incorporating three advanced 5-inch by 5-inch color displays. The aircraft has wiring and space allocated for a helmet-mounted cuing system that can be added to improve pilot situation awareness.

The Block 60 F-16 retains the full armament capability of the Block 50's and adds several new capabilities. The Block 60's basic design and weapon interfaces are compatible with projected future weapons including new air-to-air missiles such as the AIM-132 Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM). The aircraft will also support all-weather standoff weapons, such as the AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW), and AGM-84E Standoff Land Attack Missile (SLAM).

The Block 60 F-16 has been developed with planned growth improvements and technology advances in virtually all major areas, including engines, avionics, and weapons.


Jf-17-THUNDER need a lot of investment to match the specification of Block60 F-Sola.Relax...IMO

JF-17 THUNDER=F-16 Block 40 (At Best!)

[rafael_2k5]

I think JF-17 needs to do a lot more to be just a match 4 the MKI. theres no use buildin an aircraft, which cant match its adversary. For starters it should be super manouverable like the mkis, have a better radar suite on the likes of AESA n thrust vectorin, since modern combat still boils down to WVR fighting. Thats why the US is considerin re initiating the F-14D, programm. A fighter ike J-10 should be the ultimate investment, plus we cant ignore 4th generation aircrafts like rafale 4 specialized missions.

[*Zarrar Jareeh*]

Thanks for the articles young wild and free.

DefenseTalk.com kicks butt. They are also hosting JF-17 videos!! (w00t) (w00t)

He was a great member on this forum, but was driven out by insults. Yeah he may have gone on a bit about the F-1, but he made better contributions than most. Always looked to start interesting and topical threads. Had a passion for the PAF, but was bizarrely resented by some because of that 

It was Lundkapunk's (Lulli) attitude which single handedly prompted top gun to leave this board.

[sparten]

F-16-Block60
========
Structure & Avionics
The Block 60 features an enormous amount of new capabilities. For one thing, the Fighting Falcon Block 60's range is extended with addition of fuselage mounted conformal fuel tanks and wing tanks, similar to the F-16ES and Block 50/52 Plus.

Secondly, the Northrop Grumman AN/ASQ-28 IFTS (Internal FLIR and Targeting System) replaces the pods in earlier aircraft. With state-of-the art components and packaging technology, the Internal FLIR Targeting System (IFTS) incorporates an advanced multi-functional FLIR/laser system into the F-16 nose to improve lethality and survivability with lower weight and drag. The elimination of bulky pods also enhances stealthiness.

Thirdly, there is an integrated electronic warfare suite with the Northrop Grumman 'Falcon Edge' internal electronic countermeasures system, the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-80 "Agile Beam Radar" with AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array), an electronic warfare management system, fiber-optic avionics data bus and up to eight chaff/flare dispensers, as well as advanced friend or foe. The aircraft's advanced avionics suite has room available for future improvements. The Block 60's modular mission computer has a processing throughput of 12.5 million instructions per second and provides sensor and weapons integration.


The first picture of a UAE block 60 F-16 taken at the unofficial roll-out.
The ALQ-165 electronic countermeasures system, also known as the Airborne Self-Protection Jammer (ASPJ), is a sophisticated, high-power jamming system developed to fulfill both U.S. Navy and Air Force requirements - although the USAF abandonned the program a while ago. Missile warning systems on the Block 60 provide advanced warning of approaching missiles so the pilot can activate countermeasures in time. The Block 60 F-16 can accommodate both active and passive missile warning systems currently under development.

Any F-16 pilot can perform mission tasks with his head up and his eyes looking out of the cockpit and with his hands on the flight controls. The Block 60 adds to this excellent pilot-aircraft interface by incorporating three advanced 5-inch by 5-inch color displays. The aircraft has wiring and space allocated for a helmet-mounted cuing system that can be added to improve pilot situation awareness.

The Block 60 F-16 retains the full armament capability of the Block 50's and adds several new capabilities. The Block 60's basic design and weapon interfaces are compatible with projected future weapons including new air-to-air missiles such as the AIM-132 Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM). The aircraft will also support all-weather standoff weapons, such as the AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW), and AGM-84E Standoff Land Attack Missile (SLAM).

The Block 60 F-16 has been developed with planned growth improvements and technology advances in virtually all major areas, including engines, avionics, and weapons.


Jf-17-THUNDER need a lot of investment to match the specification of Block60 F-Sola.Relax...IMO

JF-17 THUNDER=F-16 Block 40 (At Best!)

The proposed JF-17 will have pretty much all of what you mentioned xcept the fuel cells. It will ahev a FLIR pod, an HMS , three colour MFD qudruplex digital FBW (F-16 does not have that). It will have a range of over 2000 KM, and will carry Darter and SD-10 AAM. It will have a stand off capability with the addition of H2 and H4 AGM as well as a LGB capability. IT is employing French designed countermesures, a radar with long range. THe only F-16 better than it will be the F-16 I.

[Willz]

The JF-17 is not the weak underdeveloped aircraft that you are trying to make it out to be. It will be as capable as F-16C/D block 50/52 (not block50/52+ which is the mainstay of the USAF). How do I know this...well, the Grifo S7 is better than Grifo 2000 (which is used on Itallian MLUs...and equal to the US MLU project). The F-16MLU is the equivalent of the F-16C/D block 50/52...and the JF-17 was always intended to be better than the F-16MLU...hence...you can draw the conclusion yourself I hope.

dude,

are u sure??? when did the FC-1/JF-17 became as good as an F-16C/D Block 50/52??? :(Blah

i pretty sure the FC-1/JF-17 is slightly inferior, if not equal, to the F-16C/D Block 30/32

[Willz]

It is better than anything the lala's have got cept the MKI and there the difference is less than the difference between the two pilots, indeed it will have an advantage due to lower RCS at some ranges. The crap bout 80% as good as the F-16A is over ten years old it is better than Block 50/52+ and probably as good as the Block 60. It is Pakistan's J-10. Export and Chinese versions mite be less capable (F-16 MLU)but Pakitan's version is gonna be ablewto take on any 4th Gen aircraft.

even if the Pakistani variant of the FC-1: the JF-17 is more modified than the original FC-1... it does not mean the JF-17 jumps and exceeds that many blocks of the F-16

ie. JF-17 jumping from being equal as F-16C Block 30 to being as equal as F-16E/F Block 60/62.

i really see good effort and enthuasism from Pakistanis about the FC-1/JF-17... but seriously... the maximum performance of the JF-17 variant would only be about 120 to 130% exceeding the orginal FC-1.

[Chucky]

...year on.

Direct links to the article:

http://www.defensetalk.com/news/publish/article_1492.shtml

Enjoy! :PakistanFlag: :ChinaFlag:

[Top Gun 101]

Thanks, but first you must credit the article to the website since I contributed it to them. I also was to have contributed more but I have been pressured.

Good work by TG  :)Clp

He was a great member on this forum, but was driven out by insults. Yeah he may have gone on a bit about the F-1, but he made better contributions than most. Always looked to start interesting and topical threads. Had a passion for the PAF, but was bizarrely resented by some because of that  :wacko:

Look at some of the crap we have now. Thousands of threads on everyone's fantasies and wish-lists.
[right][snapback]435012[/snapback][/right]

Thanks for that. Also don't forget, I still contend that the Mirage F-1 was the best choice at the time & that the PAF missed out on a great opportunity! :D

[viper007]

The proposed JF-17 will have pretty much all of what you mentioned xcept the fuel cells. It will ahev a FLIR pod, an HMS , three colour MFD qudruplex digital FBW (F-16 does not have that). It will have a range of over 2000 KM, and will carry Darter and SD-10 AAM. It will have a stand off capability with the addition of  H2 and H4 AGM as well as a LGB capability. IT is employing French designed countermesures, a radar with long range. THe only F-16 better than it will be the F-16 I.
[right][snapback]438642[/snapback][/right]

Are u sure of that ?

Grifo S7 with a diameter of 600mm (if i remember correctly from tank's article) and a low power output, still scanning mechanically, won't match the APG-68's performance. Overall, it will be hard pushed to even think of matching the APG-68 AESA.

Which French designed CM is it employing ? Spirale ?

Range of over 2000kms, again overstatement.

In air-ground, it will never match an F-16 as a deep striker. The vast array of weapons, the protection suite and the range of the F-16 makes it a deadly striker. I hope you are not comaring H-2/4 to AGM-84E, JSOW, JDAMs etc.

The only area where JF-17 would surpass F-16 newer mods is in maneuverability coz of its comparitively lower wing-loading and other factors like pitch intertia etc.

JF-17 is designed to - gain tactical air dominance, use BVR missiles, outperform enemy in WVR, and also do a bit of mud moving, apart from short-range strikes. Primarily intended for Air Defence.


Tank131,

Has JF-17 been made unstable in roll-axis as well ?

VIPER