 Lets Buy Turkish F-4 Phatoms, Always An Option |
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 Jun 3 2003, 10:20 AM
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#1
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 LIEUTENANT  Group: Banned Posts: 212 Joined: 13-May 03 Member No.: 1,689  |
As you people all know the turkish airforce is wanting to sell its phantoms even though it just had them upgraded by IAI israeli aircraft industries, there now more interested in the JSF.
They are selling at $ 17 000 000 (us), thus if pakistan buys even 1 squadron it will be a very cheap option considering the ammount of technology you would be getting beacuse they have been updated. besides they will be usable up until 2020, and may i add these are american aircraft not "gook" so there born good proformers. what do you think ? thanks |
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Jun 3 2003, 10:30 AM
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#2
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 BRIGADIER Group: Senior Members Posts: 1,134 Joined: 6-May 03 Member No.: 1,626 |
I dont think its a good option. We shouldnt get those, fc1 is about to fly anyway. F-4 aint a good fighter at all. I did a reasearch and F4 is not even half as good as f-16
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Jun 3 2003, 10:35 AM
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#3
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LIEUTENANT Group: Banned Posts: 212 Joined: 13-May 03 Member No.: 1,689 |
The f-16 is a better plane, but unfortunetly we dont have the option of buying anymore ( thanks to clinton all beacuse he "did not have sexual relations with that woman, miss lewinsky").
THe f-4 is good for ground attack, like you saw the IDF/AF maul arab groud units with them. |
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Jun 3 2003, 11:44 AM
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#4
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 GENERAL Group: Senior Members Posts: 4,676 Joined: 15-November 02 Member No.: 374 |
Yeah, lets buy all the junk and scrap of the world and keep them flying for the next 50 years. Heck why not buy those MiG-21s that India will be retiring in the near future, it will be a good peace gesture!
Goddamn silly topics. PISSES ME OFF! -3BSD -------------------- The sound of silence is deafening.
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Jun 3 2003, 12:48 PM
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#5
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 GENERAL  Group: Moderator Posts: 22,248 Joined: 16-October 02 From: UK Member No.: 109 |
When i read this topic i was lost for words...........all my boundaries of stupidity where smashed into infinite peices.
-------------------- -=-=-=-=Faith, Unity, Discipline-=-=-=-=
Kashmir is the jugular Vein of Pakistan and no nation or country would tolerate its jugular vein remains under the sword of the enemy. -Muhammed Ali Jinnah -=-=-=-=FREE KASHMIR-=-=-=-= These eye's do not wander in lust, for my queen of hearts has graced them with love. "We gave our today for your tommorrow ". |
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Jun 3 2003, 01:00 PM
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#6
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 MAJOR GENERAL Group: Senior Members Posts: 2,687 Joined: 25-April 03 From: Pakistan Member No.: 1,494 |
Could anyone tell me how much capable is F-4??? Can it match Mirage III? or Mirage F-1??? :)
-------------------- Watan baqi rehe, yeh zindagi to aani jaani hai. (Junaid Jamshed--Vital Signs)
--------------------------------------------------------- Ab himmat say hai mera saara jahan. (Ali Noor--Noori) --------------------------------------------------------- “Great pilots are made not born…A man may possess good eyesight, sensitive hands and perfect coordination, but the end product is only fashioned by steady coaching, much practice and experience. – Air Vice Marshal J.E. Johnson, RAF --------------------------------------------------------- <----PAF... Train to fight--Fight to kill.----> --------------------------------------------------------- PAKISTAN ZINDABAD--PAKISTAN PAAINDABAD --------------------------------------------------------- |
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Jun 3 2003, 01:25 PM
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#7
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 BRIGADIER Group: Senior Members Posts: 1,530 Joined: 2-December 02 Member No.: 456 |
Mirage F-1 is an air defense fighter and in this field is better than most F-4's. But the Turkish F-4's have gone through the Israeli Terminator upgarde, so you never know with better missiles and avionics, so i think they are superior.
-------------------- www.freeownage.com
The best free online games site. Try them. |
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Jun 3 2003, 01:31 PM
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#8
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MAJOR GENERAL Group: Senior Members Posts: 2,687 Joined: 25-April 03 From: Pakistan Member No.: 1,494 |
QUOTE (Iranian Warrior @ Jun 3 2003, 01:25 PM) Mirage F-1 is an air defense fighter and in this field is better than most F-4's. But the Turkish F-4's have gone through the Israeli Terminator upgarde, so you never know with better missiles and avionics, so i think they are superior. hmmm..... means F-4s are parallel to Fc-1s right??? thanx :) -------------------- Watan baqi rehe, yeh zindagi to aani jaani hai. (Junaid Jamshed--Vital Signs)
--------------------------------------------------------- Ab himmat say hai mera saara jahan. (Ali Noor--Noori) --------------------------------------------------------- “Great pilots are made not born…A man may possess good eyesight, sensitive hands and perfect coordination, but the end product is only fashioned by steady coaching, much practice and experience. – Air Vice Marshal J.E. Johnson, RAF --------------------------------------------------------- <----PAF... Train to fight--Fight to kill.----> --------------------------------------------------------- PAKISTAN ZINDABAD--PAKISTAN PAAINDABAD --------------------------------------------------------- |
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Jun 3 2003, 01:36 PM
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#9
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BRIGADIER Group: Senior Members Posts: 1,530 Joined: 2-December 02 Member No.: 456 |
no way FC-1 will Rip any,,, ANY F-4 apart.
better manuverability, and avionics.... -------------------- www.freeownage.com
The best free online games site. Try them. |
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Jun 3 2003, 01:41 PM
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#10
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GENERAL Group: Senior Members Posts: 4,676 Joined: 15-November 02 Member No.: 374 |
Guys, PLEASE!
We are getting FC-1s to replace our old fighters such as Mirage IIIs, F-7Ps and A5Cs. Mirage Vs have been upgraded or are being upgraded and the F-16s and Mirages and FC-1 (T-Darter, MICA, SD-10) will all be able to fire BVR missiles of impressive range and characteristics and drop LGBs. We have the F-7PGs performing peace-time air patrol duties and will also serve as point defence fighters against the enemy's less advanced and dedicated ground attack planes. Now where do the F-4 Phantoms come in? I'd like to know. All we need is another 40 or so advanced fighters such as Mirage 2000-5 or Rafale in addition to FC-1s, F-16s, upgraded Mirage Vs and F-7PGs, and if possible, a few decent AWACs. Again, I don't see where the F-4 can fit in, unless wasting money is an objective. -3BSD -------------------- The sound of silence is deafening.
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Jun 3 2003, 02:03 PM
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#11
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 Joint Chief of Staff Group: Senior Members Posts: 8,349 Joined: 15-October 02 Member No.: 66 |
Where is PAkistan goigng to get spare parts (two us engines)? Probably trough Turkey? Stop US products or do yuo love soya beans?
PEace. -------------------- To handle yourself, use your head;
To handle others, use your heart. Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. There is no beginning or end.... Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift. |
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Jun 3 2003, 03:19 PM
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#12
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MAJOR GENERAL Group: Senior Members Posts: 2,607 Joined: 14-October 02 Member No.: 22 |
"Mirage F-1 is an air defense fighter and in this field is better than most F-4's. But the Turkish F-4's have gone through the Israeli Terminator upgarde, so you never know with better missiles and avionics, so i think they are superior."
The Greek F-4E PI-2000 and German F-4F carry the AIM-120 and IRIS-T which make it better then any Mirage F-1 ever put into the field. -------------------- Quotable Quotes by Black Eagle Force
Why would I want or need to save it? Its not even an accurate result, how many time have I said that? Your memory aren't that short are you? Damn you Americans are fxckheads and also damn smart. Miss their idiot? What idiot? Unless your definition of "idiot" is a person with a mental of age below three years who does year 10 advanced math and english that is.... Stop being bias mate, you really should understand real combat record tends to be not the most accurate. What? Your racist to Russians? They talk fact, and thats all it counts I'll back to what I say I'll would rather have a MiG-29A guarding than a F-22. Oh.. Is this a trap of yours? Well I can tell you that you've trapped a cat, not the tiger.... I'll doubt he'll forget Black Eagle Force... |
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Jun 4 2003, 02:53 AM
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#13
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LIEUTENANT Group: Full Members Posts: 140 Joined: 29-October 02 Member No.: 264 |
Turkey is no selling their F-4E Terminators. I believe the remainder of the non upgraded F-4Es are probably being floated around (some of them, perhaps the older air frames), but no way will the Turks sell their recently upgrade Phantoms.
-------------------- "MOLON LAVE"
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Jun 4 2003, 05:35 AM
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#14
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 CADET Group: Jr. Members Posts: 24 Joined: 2-June 03 Member No.: 1,773 |
Hahahaha .... buy F-4s ??? LOL
Please read ... PLEASE read about stuff before you post. The F-4 is bulky and has low manuvariblity (sp?) and sucks -------------------- [img]www.freewebs.com/amsn/DTA2.jpg[/img]
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Jun 4 2003, 06:46 AM
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#15
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MAJOR Group: Full Members Posts: 689 Joined: 6-November 02 From: Lahore, Pakistan Member No.: 316 |
If Pakistan would have to buy anything from Turkey then it should be their F-16Cs not the bulky F-4s which would be canon fodder to SU-30MKIs~!
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Jun 4 2003, 07:39 AM
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#16
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CAPTAIN Group: Full Members Posts: 567 Joined: 30-December 02 Member No.: 591 |
We should buy only F-16s from turkey. Nothing other than F-16s.
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Jun 4 2003, 07:51 AM
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#17
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MAJOR GENERAL Group: Senior Members Posts: 2,687 Joined: 25-April 03 From: Pakistan Member No.: 1,494 |
QUOTE (muaest @ Jun 4 2003, 07:39 AM) We should buy only F-16s from turkey. Nothing other than F-16s. Only f-16s???? Then how to counter indian Su-30MKI's??? J-10s, Typhoons and Gripens can fulfil our needs. -------------------- Watan baqi rehe, yeh zindagi to aani jaani hai. (Junaid Jamshed--Vital Signs)
--------------------------------------------------------- Ab himmat say hai mera saara jahan. (Ali Noor--Noori) --------------------------------------------------------- “Great pilots are made not born…A man may possess good eyesight, sensitive hands and perfect coordination, but the end product is only fashioned by steady coaching, much practice and experience. – Air Vice Marshal J.E. Johnson, RAF --------------------------------------------------------- <----PAF... Train to fight--Fight to kill.----> --------------------------------------------------------- PAKISTAN ZINDABAD--PAKISTAN PAAINDABAD --------------------------------------------------------- |
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Jun 4 2003, 11:19 AM
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#18
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LIEUTENANT Group: Jr. Members Posts: 257 Joined: 7-November 02 Member No.: 323 |
I would take a F-4 PI-2000 over any Mirage F.1, FC-1, F-16A/C Blk 52.
Damn the F-4 is a much better plattform than all of them. The F-4 has a much better manuvariblity than the F.1 if used right and can beat the rest with good missiles and the manuvariblity argument ist 10% worth if a AMRAAM/IRIS-T equipped aircraft is about to take you out at BVR and long range WVR.... None if the aircraft also has such a good air to ground capabyletie like Phantoms can carry so much and fly so far, the F-16C and Mirage F.1 can also fly far but not so far. The F-4 extra to this has systems which most of them above not have, two pilots and two engines AND in flight refueling. Damn the Phantom is still a killer only the F-16C would come in some cases near.... |
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Jun 4 2003, 11:50 AM
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#19
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 MAJOR GENERAL Group: Senior Members Posts: 2,359 Joined: 31-October 02 Member No.: 285 |
QUOTE (PeeD @ Jun 4 2003, 11:19 AM) I would take a F-4 PI-2000 over any Mirage F.1, FC-1, F-16A/C Blk 52. Even the F-16C Block 52 ? :unsure: -------------------- --------- Director-General Military Operations ---------
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Jun 4 2003, 12:10 PM
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#20
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GENERAL Group: Senior Members Posts: 4,676 Joined: 15-November 02 Member No.: 374 |
QUOTE (DGMO @ Jun 4 2003, 01:50 PM) QUOTE (PeeD @ Jun 4 2003, 11:19 AM) I would take a F-4 PI-2000 over any Mirage F.1, FC-1, F-16A/C Blk 52. Even the F-16C Block 52 ? :unsure: Don't worry, he's a little ---> (IMG:http://forum.pakistanidefence.com//style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/wacko.gif) -3BSD -------------------- The sound of silence is deafening.
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Jun 5 2003, 03:51 AM
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#21
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LIEUTENANT Group: Jr. Members Posts: 257 Joined: 7-November 02 Member No.: 323 |
As I said the overall capabyleties of upgraded F-4's are better.
I would only take the F-16CBlk52 over the F-4 in aircombat in WVR area, but for all other things the F-4, thats why I would take upgraded F-4's for my airforce, the F-16 is small, one engined, with one man crew and simply limited. |
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Jun 5 2003, 03:54 AM
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#22
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Joint Chief of Staff Group: Senior Members Posts: 8,349 Joined: 15-October 02 Member No.: 66 |
-------------------- To handle yourself, use your head;
To handle others, use your heart. Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. There is no beginning or end.... Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift. |
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Jun 5 2003, 04:05 AM
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#23
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 GENERAL Group: Moderator Posts: 15,864 Joined: 15-October 02 From: Londonistan Member No.: 68 Location: United Kingdom |
why don't we just buy all the spitfires, mustangs, even some Lancaster bombers etc etc and stick BVR technology on them and breath new life into world war 2 planes?? (IMG:http://forum.pakistanidefence.com//style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/wacko.gif)
-------------------- The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammed. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he? " (Lamartine, Historie de la Turquie, Paris 1854, Vol. 11 pp. 276-2727)
"FOUR YEARS AFTER THE DEATH OF JUSTINIAN, A.D. 569, WAS BORN AT MAKKAH, IN ARABIA THE MAN WHO, OF ALL MEN EXERCISED THE GREATEST INFLUENCE UPON THE HUMAN RACE ... MOHAMMED ..." [John William Draper, M.D., LLD., in his "A History of the lntellectual Development of Europe",- London 1875.] "I HAVE STUDIED HIM - THE WONDERFUL MAN - AND IN MY OPINION FAR FROM BEING AN ANTI-CHRIST, HE MUST BE CALLED THE SAVIOUR OF HUMANITY." [George Bernard Shaw, in "The Genuine Islam,- Vol. 1, No. 81936.] Voltaire (on the Jews) :"They are, all of them, born with raging fanaticism in their hearts, just as the Bretons and the Germans are born with blond hair. I would not be in the least bit surprised if these people would not some day become deadly to the human race." (Lettres de Memmius a Ciceron, 1771) [color="#FF0000"]"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parliament] quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982[/color] |
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Jun 5 2003, 04:09 AM
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#24
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BRIGADIER Group: Senior Members Posts: 1,480 Joined: 22-October 02 Member No.: 177 |
To all the immature guys/kids.. please don't consider your air force to be in so pathetic state.. these kind of topics that keep coming frequently after disscussed to death someone again posts the same thing in new disguise.. these things just show PAF in bad colors/health.. which is not the case yaaron.. I mean if you go around the board .. you will see that their are so many new weapon systems that are coming in the world.. and I have seen a couple of guys ALWAYS wanting these cool looking gadgets/weapons etc for the PA/PN/PAF.. yaar.. equipments are bought by the forces based on their doctrine/requirement/etc and not because they are cool etc..
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Jun 5 2003, 06:58 AM
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#25
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GENERAL Group: Moderator Posts: 22,248 Joined: 16-October 02 From: UK Member No.: 109 |
QUOTE why don't we just buy all the spitfires, mustangs, even some Lancaster bombers etc etc and stick BVR technology on them and breath new life into world war 2 planes?? damn you!! :hitwall I was gonna start a topic suggesting just that!! (IMG:http://forum.pakistanidefence.com//style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/angry.gif) :megalol -------------------- -=-=-=-=Faith, Unity, Discipline-=-=-=-=
Kashmir is the jugular Vein of Pakistan and no nation or country would tolerate its jugular vein remains under the sword of the enemy. -Muhammed Ali Jinnah -=-=-=-=FREE KASHMIR-=-=-=-= These eye's do not wander in lust, for my queen of hearts has graced them with love. "We gave our today for your tommorrow ". |
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Jun 5 2003, 09:56 AM
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#26
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 GENERAL Group: Senior Members Posts: 3,895 Joined: 23-October 02 Member No.: 200 |
Why buy them???? I would rather get the Tornado F-3 from RAF stocks. That would be better than some obsolete F-4E-2020s from Turkey.
-------------------- "We were told the purpose of the mission was to bring in the weapon but it's not the weapon it's the fighter pilot inside"
~Zechs Marquise (AC 195) Mobile Suit Gundam Wing |
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Jun 5 2003, 12:35 PM
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#27
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 MAJOR GENERAL Group: Senior Members Posts: 2,359 Joined: 15-October 02 Member No.: 81 |
QUOTE (platinum786 @ Jun 5 2003, 06:58 AM) QUOTE why don't we just buy all the spitfires, mustangs, even some Lancaster bombers etc etc and stick BVR technology on them and breath new life into world war 2 planes?? damn you!! :hitwall I was gonna start a topic suggesting just that!! (IMG:http://forum.pakistanidefence.com//style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/angry.gif) :megalol :onlinetoolong8 or those WW1 wooden planes..hell they're even stealth!!! (no radar, no metal = kind of stealth :P) -------------------- WWW.JF-17.COM >> LOCK n ROLL
[img]http://bd1.battledawn.com/banners/battledawn1.jpg[/img] [url=http://bd1.battledawn.com/referx.php?serv=1&ref=55529]Battledawn[/url] |
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Jun 5 2003, 01:57 PM
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#28
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CAPTAIN Group: Full Members Posts: 508 Joined: 24-April 03 Member No.: 1,336 |
man, i would take more rusty A-5's or un-upgraded F-7's over the
F-4 phantom..you are inviting the IAF to blast us by buying used leftover has-been wrecks like that...get real and give it a rest buddy. To mention FC-1 and F-4 in the same sentence is absolutely insane... you cannot be serious, it is not worth arguing this... |
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Jun 5 2003, 03:07 PM
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#29
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 CAPTAIN Group: Banned Posts: 521 Joined: 2-May 03 Member No.: 1,608 |
Fuken annoying of all these threads....
It aint gonna happen guys... FC-1 will make everything good.. These stupid threads ###### me off ...keep your damn suggestions to yourself. |
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Jun 5 2003, 03:58 PM
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#30
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Joint Chief of Staff Group: Senior Members Posts: 8,349 Joined: 15-October 02 Member No.: 66 |
I think we could go for F86 sabre... We have experience with it... Just throw an Grifo in it and add the SD10...
I get bored with old planes and upgrades. It is a waste of bandwith. Close it... -------------------- To handle yourself, use your head;
To handle others, use your heart. Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. There is no beginning or end.... Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift. |
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 Jun 17 2003, 01:51 AM
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#31
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 CADET Group: Jr. Members Posts: 35 Joined: 9-June 03 Member No.: 1,808 |
http://www.tuaf.mil.tr/HavaUzay/projeler/P...ProjelerF4E.htm
F- 4E/PHANTOM 2020 MODERNIZATION PROJECT The F-4 is a two-place , supersonic, long-range, all-weather fighter-bomber built by McDonnell Douglas Corporation. Mission capabilities include: long range, high-altitude intercepts utilizing air-to-air missiles as primary armament; a 20mm gun as secondary armament; long-range attack missions utilizing conventional or nuclear weapons as a primary armament; and close air support missions utilizing a choice of bombs, rockets and missiles as primary armament. Aircraft thrust is provided by two axial-flow turbo jet engines with variable stators and variable afterburner. Airplane appearance is characterized by a low mounted swept back wing with obvious anhedral at the wing tips. The wings can be folded for ease of airplane storage and ground handling. A drag chute, contained in the end of the fuselage, significantly reduces landing roll distances and an arresting hook, that is hydraulically retracted, can be utilized to stop the airplane under a wide range of gross weight-airspeed combination. (IMG:http://www.tuaf.mil.tr/HavaUzay/projeler/resim/f4e_1.jpg) Turkish Air Force signed a contract with ISRAELI AIRCRAFT INDUSTRY (IAI) in 1997 for avionic and structural modernization of F-4E aircraft. Under modernization project, F - 4E aircraft will undergo 1st &2nd phase modernizations in Israel and 1st Air Supply and Maintenance Center Command, respectively. First group F-4E aircraft were sent to Israel in 1997 for modernization. There will be a great changes between current F - 4E and future F-4E (Phantom 2020) aircraft in avionic structural aspects. These changes cover particularly the radars as well as the avionic systems similar to those in F - 16 aircraft such as IAIC (Improved Avionics Interface Computer), HUD (Head-up Display), UFCP (Up Front Control Panel), MFD (Multi Function Display) and AVTR (Airborne Video Tape Recorder). Through the modification applied F-4E aircraft will stay in the inventory of the Turkish Air Force until 2020. (IMG:http://www.tuaf.mil.tr/HavaUzay/projeler/resim/f4e_2.jpg) The second phase of modernization will start in the 1st Air Supply and Maintenance Center Command in 2000. The said command acquires the required capabilities for the EW systems software, engineering design, enroute tests, test of avionic systems in a laboratory environment and search and development capabilities through this modernization activity. F-4D specs/doneleri: Crew..........................................: 2, Engines.......................................: 2 x General Electric J-79-GE-15, Thrust.........................................: 75.46 kN, Wingspan....................................: 11,68m. Length........................................: 17,71m. Height.........................................: 4,99m. Max take-off weight......................: 26,886kg. Max speed...................................: 2,310km/h. 2,17 Mach Cruising speed.....................: 974km/h. Range..........................................: 2,888km. Ceiling.........................................: 18,100m. |
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Jun 17 2003, 02:15 AM
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#32
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CADET Group: Jr. Members Posts: 35 Joined: 9-June 03 Member No.: 1,808 |
F-4E .... The old front cocpit
(IMG:http://okan.turkchat.net/images/kokpit/04_f4_front.jpg) F-4E....... the old rear cocpit (IMG:http://okan.turkchat.net/images/kokpit/03_f4_rear.jpg) F-4E 2020 ... The new front cocpit (IMG:http://okan.turkchat.net/images/kokpit/f42020semasi.jpg) (IMG:http://okan.turkchat.net/images/kokpit/f42020kokpit2.jpg) |
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